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It's all the same.

jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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11/4/2014 6:51:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
http://youtu.be...

It's all the same. Give it whatever name you choose. Represent it in whatever way you see fit. But it's all the SAME thing.

No one says anything new. It's the same argument over and over again like a broken record player. The same antiquated verses thrown around with little meaning. The same atheist argument with no creativity. No one is going to win the debate because everyone here believes themselves to be right. What if none of us are? What a surprise that would be.

We aren't even talking about something that can be proven. Its ridiculous. We might as well be arguing what color fairy wings are.

Is there not a topic here that can be discussed without head splitting repetition?

I'm glad to see how intelligent and well read everyone here is. However, the boredom is likely to turn me into a troll. And i dont like trolls. I could literally copy and paste the same response over and over again and I wonder sometimes if that isn't what everyone else is doing.

Your knowledge of scripture is impressive. Your scientific evidence is clever. But seriously. Where is the creativity? Where is anyone's desire to understand? Just because you understand another point of view doesn't make it fact. Does it challenge your faith in God, Allah, scientific reason, or "whatever" to give someone else's opinion consideration?

Watch the video please. It's literally what I see every time I enter this forum.

I want a new religious topic. A creative one. One that actually has real meaning and substance.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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11/4/2014 7:12:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 6:51:05 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
http://youtu.be...

It's all the same. Give it whatever name you choose. Represent it in whatever way you see fit. But it's all the SAME thing.

No one says anything new. It's the same argument over and over again like a broken record player. The same antiquated verses thrown around with little meaning. The same atheist argument with no creativity. No one is going to win the debate because everyone here believes themselves to be right. What if none of us are? What a surprise that would be.

We aren't even talking about something that can be proven. Its ridiculous. We might as well be arguing what color fairy wings are.

Is there not a topic here that can be discussed without head splitting repetition?

I'm glad to see how intelligent and well read everyone here is. However, the boredom is likely to turn me into a troll. And i dont like trolls. I could literally copy and paste the same response over and over again and I wonder sometimes if that isn't what everyone else is doing.

Your knowledge of scripture is impressive. Your scientific evidence is clever. But seriously. Where is the creativity? Where is anyone's desire to understand? Just because you understand another point of view doesn't make it fact. Does it challenge your faith in God, Allah, scientific reason, or "whatever" to give someone else's opinion consideration?

Watch the video please. It's literally what I see every time I enter this forum.

I want a new religious topic. A creative one. One that actually has real meaning and substance.

What if the debate is itself the meaning of life?

I enjoyed the video. Thank you.
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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11/4/2014 7:15:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 7:12:14 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 11/4/2014 6:51:05 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
http://youtu.be...

It's all the same. Give it whatever name you choose. Represent it in whatever way you see fit. But it's all the SAME thing.

No one says anything new. It's the same argument over and over again like a broken record player. The same antiquated verses thrown around with little meaning. The same atheist argument with no creativity. No one is going to win the debate because everyone here believes themselves to be right. What if none of us are? What a surprise that would be.

We aren't even talking about something that can be proven. Its ridiculous. We might as well be arguing what color fairy wings are.

Is there not a topic here that can be discussed without head splitting repetition?

I'm glad to see how intelligent and well read everyone here is. However, the boredom is likely to turn me into a troll. And i dont like trolls. I could literally copy and paste the same response over and over again and I wonder sometimes if that isn't what everyone else is doing.

Your knowledge of scripture is impressive. Your scientific evidence is clever. But seriously. Where is the creativity? Where is anyone's desire to understand? Just because you understand another point of view doesn't make it fact. Does it challenge your faith in God, Allah, scientific reason, or "whatever" to give someone else's opinion consideration?

Watch the video please. It's literally what I see every time I enter this forum.

I want a new religious topic. A creative one. One that actually has real meaning and substance.

What if the debate is itself the meaning of life?

I enjoyed the video. Thank you.

The meaning of life would be good :)
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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11/4/2014 7:23:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I've seen the video before and I understand the comparison. But there is a bit more at stake here. While the majority of atheists aren't going to be talked into belief in any god, and only a slightly higher number of theists are going to stop believing in a god, this isn't debating simply for the sake of debate (though that's probably the strongest motivation).

More and more non-theists are being reigned over by theists. And most of the theists don't even realize they're doing this. They think they're perfectly justified in seeking to keep religious postings and monuments on public lands. They're unmoved by the knowledge that it's illegal. Their response is that if something so innocuous is illegal, then it's a bad law. And then it gets worse; we start being regulated in truly harmful and illegal ways - like obstructions to medical research, because a majority of theists with little to know understanding of science decide the research isn't moral. The reality is that their religiously based morals, aren't moral. Every American has lost an important percentage of their rights to religious legislation and the trend is accelerating. So it becomes important to try to reason with the theists because it makes more sense than trying to use force - even judicial force. If they understand the problem - and that it is a problem - then maybe they will become concerned enough to seek greater knowledge.

So it's not really of the same caliber as a disagreement over whether it's sprinkling or raining, though the arguments do get stale. But this is nothing new and I'm not really sure how to freshen the pot. It took about 200 years for theists to finally accept Galileo's findings and it appears it will take about as long for them to accept the ideas founded by Darwin. Each time such things become accepted, it's an advancement in human knowledge and ability.

So while I do see the problem and even agree, my response has to be... "show us".
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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11/4/2014 7:25:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 7:15:45 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/4/2014 7:12:14 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 11/4/2014 6:51:05 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
http://youtu.be...

It's all the same. Give it whatever name you choose. Represent it in whatever way you see fit. But it's all the SAME thing.

No one says anything new. It's the same argument over and over again like a broken record player. The same antiquated verses thrown around with little meaning. The same atheist argument with no creativity. No one is going to win the debate because everyone here believes themselves to be right. What if none of us are? What a surprise that would be.

We aren't even talking about something that can be proven. Its ridiculous. We might as well be arguing what color fairy wings are.

Is there not a topic here that can be discussed without head splitting repetition?

I'm glad to see how intelligent and well read everyone here is. However, the boredom is likely to turn me into a troll. And i dont like trolls. I could literally copy and paste the same response over and over again and I wonder sometimes if that isn't what everyone else is doing.

Your knowledge of scripture is impressive. Your scientific evidence is clever. But seriously. Where is the creativity? Where is anyone's desire to understand? Just because you understand another point of view doesn't make it fact. Does it challenge your faith in God, Allah, scientific reason, or "whatever" to give someone else's opinion consideration?

Watch the video please. It's literally what I see every time I enter this forum.

I want a new religious topic. A creative one. One that actually has real meaning and substance.

What if the debate is itself the meaning of life?

I enjoyed the video. Thank you.

The meaning of life would be good :)

We are all looking for agreement while failing to realize identity is born not, only, of sameness but also difference.
dee-em
Posts: 6,497
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11/4/2014 8:49:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 6:51:05 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
http://youtu.be...

It's all the same. Give it whatever name you choose. Represent it in whatever way you see fit. But it's all the SAME thing.

No one says anything new. It's the same argument over and over again like a broken record player. The same antiquated verses thrown around with little meaning. The same atheist argument with no creativity. No one is going to win the debate because everyone here believes themselves to be right. What if none of us are? What a surprise that would be.

We aren't even talking about something that can be proven. Its ridiculous. We might as well be arguing what color fairy wings are.

Is there not a topic here that can be discussed without head splitting repetition?

I'm glad to see how intelligent and well read everyone here is. However, the boredom is likely to turn me into a troll. And i dont like trolls. I could literally copy and paste the same response over and over again and I wonder sometimes if that isn't what everyone else is doing.

Your knowledge of scripture is impressive. Your scientific evidence is clever. But seriously. Where is the creativity? Where is anyone's desire to understand? Just because you understand another point of view doesn't make it fact. Does it challenge your faith in God, Allah, scientific reason, or "whatever" to give someone else's opinion consideration?

Watch the video please. It's literally what I see every time I enter this forum.

I want a new religious topic. A creative one. One that actually has real meaning and substance.

Feeling a bit jaded today? :-)

I have this theory. You won't deconvert anyone immediately. They have too much invested in their beliefs to give them up overnight. I don't believe someone's worldview will collapse in a sudden epiphany. The process is a long, slow one. So atheists have to keep hammering away, often repetitively, until the message gets through. Most theists (there are exceptions!) will back away from some of the more outrageous claims of their religion when shown they are invalid. Sooner or later they will come to the realization that everything in theism is based on blind faith. The doubts which atheists raise work away at them, and it will often take years, but eventually the arguments cut through and faith ebbs.

Also, I'm sometimes surprised by some of the discussions which I see here. Every now and again there is something new under the sun. Those moments are worth waiting for. I don't think people would hang around if it was all totally boring. Some just enjoy honing their debating skills. It's all good.
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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11/4/2014 9:07:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 7:23:07 PM, Beastt wrote:
I've seen the video before and I understand the comparison. But there is a bit more at stake here. While the majority of atheists aren't going to be talked into belief in any god, and only a slightly higher number of theists are going to stop believing in a god, this isn't debating simply for the sake of debate (though that's probably the strongest motivation).

More and more non-theists are being reigned over by theists. And most of the theists don't even realize they're doing this. They think they're perfectly justified in seeking to keep religious postings and monuments on public lands. They're unmoved by the knowledge that it's illegal. Their response is that if something so innocuous is illegal, then it's a bad law. And then it gets worse; we start being regulated in truly harmful and illegal ways - like obstructions to medical research, because a majority of theists with little to know understanding of science decide the research isn't moral. The reality is that their religiously based morals, aren't moral. Every American has lost an important percentage of their rights to religious legislation and the trend is accelerating. So it becomes important to try to reason with the theists because it makes more sense than trying to use force - even judicial force. If they understand the problem - and that it is a problem - then maybe they will become concerned enough to seek greater knowledge.

So it's not really of the same caliber as a disagreement over whether it's sprinkling or raining, though the arguments do get stale. But this is nothing new and I'm not really sure how to freshen the pot. It took about 200 years for theists to finally accept Galileo's findings and it appears it will take about as long for them to accept the ideas founded by Darwin. Each time such things become accepted, it's an advancement in human knowledge and ability.

So while I do see the problem and even agree, my response has to be... "show us".

I can't say I'm qualified to show anyone anything. I haven't met a perfect human being yet and I'm the furthest thing from it. When I was a child I often pondered the question as whether I am even human. But I married a human and had babies so it must be that I'm a human after all! The fantasies of childhood are all eventually debunked and we are left to wonder if there is anything magical left in the world. What a disappointment.

If I could show you and have anyone listen I would start with this: We are all ambassadors of our own cause. We should act like it, treat each other with dignity and attempt to understand without judgement.

Alas, that might not ever happen and someone's eventually going to get poked in the eye, or even worse the heart.

Separation of church and state would be an excellent topic. The right to worship and the right not to. These are fundamental human rights and should be treated with equal importance.

As for the evolution verses creation topic. That one is going on still. I said it to you before. That horse also has been flayed to the point of dust and it's still being actively debated. So I will have to agree with you. Maybe it'll take less time than 200 years. I hope.

I would just like to see an important topic that doesn't digress into whether or not it's raining or sprinkling. Is it too much to ask?
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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11/4/2014 9:31:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 8:49:29 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 11/4/2014 6:51:05 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
http://youtu.be...

It's all the same. Give it whatever name you choose. Represent it in whatever way you see fit. But it's all the SAME thing.

No one says anything new. It's the same argument over and over again like a broken record player. The same antiquated verses thrown around with little meaning. The same atheist argument with no creativity. No one is going to win the debate because everyone here believes themselves to be right. What if none of us are? What a surprise that would be.

We aren't even talking about something that can be proven. Its ridiculous. We might as well be arguing what color fairy wings are.

Is there not a topic here that can be discussed without head splitting repetition?

I'm glad to see how intelligent and well read everyone here is. However, the boredom is likely to turn me into a troll. And i dont like trolls. I could literally copy and paste the same response over and over again and I wonder sometimes if that isn't what everyone else is doing.

Your knowledge of scripture is impressive. Your scientific evidence is clever. But seriously. Where is the creativity? Where is anyone's desire to understand? Just because you understand another point of view doesn't make it fact. Does it challenge your faith in God, Allah, scientific reason, or "whatever" to give someone else's opinion consideration?

Watch the video please. It's literally what I see every time I enter this forum.

I want a new religious topic. A creative one. One that actually has real meaning and substance.

Feeling a bit jaded today? :-)

I have this theory. You won't deconvert anyone immediately. They have too much invested in their beliefs to give them up overnight. I don't believe someone's worldview will collapse in a sudden epiphany. The process is a long, slow one. So atheists have to keep hammering away, often repetitively, until the message gets through. Most theists (there are exceptions!) will back away from some of the more outrageous claims of their religion when shown they are invalid. Sooner or later they will come to the realization that everything in theism is based on blind faith. The doubts which atheists raise work away at them, and it will often take years, but eventually the arguments cut through and faith ebbs.

Also, I'm sometimes surprised by some of the discussions which I see here. Every now and again there is something new under the sun. Those moments are worth waiting for. I don't think people would hang around if it was all totally boring. Some just enjoy honing their debating skills. It's all good.

Not jaded, more bored than anything.

You know. You hit the target. I was wondering when it would be mentioned. Conversion and deconversion. That's the undercurrent and it is the disease here. I have absolutely no desire to change the way anyone believes. You're an atheist and I'm alright with that. I want to hear your point of view. I want to hear what everyone has to say and discuss their views to gain insight. I hope I'm not the only one who feels that way.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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11/4/2014 9:33:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 9:07:58 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/4/2014 7:23:07 PM, Beastt wrote:

I can't say I'm qualified to show anyone anything. I haven't met a perfect human being yet and I'm the furthest thing from it. When I was a child I often pondered the question as whether I am even human. But I married a human and had babies so it must be that I'm a human after all! The fantasies of childhood are all eventually debunked and we are left to wonder if there is anything magical left in the world. What a disappointment.
I suppose we all have our childhood doubts. Perhaps those only fade away when we find that we're as capable as anyone else. And if we're not, some of those doubts may remain. I hope you don't mind if I hold your feet over the fire a bit here. As I understood it, you were asking for some fresh, creative ideas as points of debate and one needn't be perfect for that. If anyone can offer fresh creative ideas, I feel it would be you. I'd love to see some creative arguments. So what might you offer?

If I could show you and have anyone listen I would start with this: We are all ambassadors of our own cause. We should act like it, treat each other with dignity and attempt to understand without judgement.
Not a bad thought. Maybe even more poignant for those who believe they're supporting higher moral standards, but applicable to all.

Alas, that might not ever happen and someone's eventually going to get poked in the eye, or even worse the heart.
I suppose when one plays football, they have to know the helmet and pads don't guarantee that they won't be hurt. When one boxes, they have to know that the gloves don't stop the brutality. When people debate, they should know it might be rough. I'm not trying to excuse the blatantly abusive. But perhaps there's room to acknowledge the blatantly sensitive as well. We don't agree and sometimes we're hit with incredibly poor arguments, or worse yet, pleas which lack any compelling value. It can get a little rough from there.

Separation of church and state would be an excellent topic. The right to worship and the right not to. These are fundamental human rights and should be treated with equal importance.
It's a topic which is referenced fairly frequently. Yet still we see the puzzled queries of theist who can't understand why an atheist might care what they believe. And still we have courts finding in favor of illegal activities, because politics demands that you find in favor of the majority, sometimes even when it's wrong to do so.

As for the evolution verses creation topic. That one is going on still. I said it to you before. That horse also has been flayed to the point of dust and it's still being actively debated. So I will have to agree with you. Maybe it'll take less time than 200 years. I hope.
We have only 50-years to meet that deadline.

I would just like to see an important topic that doesn't digress into whether or not it's raining or sprinkling. Is it too much to ask?
I'm not sure how to make that happen when there is a fairly hard line between belief in a god, and disbelief in gods. I think most (if not all), related discussions will come back around to that. Then again...

... perhaps if you throw in diet, it tends to preclude either rain or sprinkles. :)
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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11/4/2014 9:37:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 7:25:10 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 11/4/2014 7:15:45 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/4/2014 7:12:14 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 11/4/2014 6:51:05 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
http://youtu.be...

It's all the same. Give it whatever name you choose. Represent it in whatever way you see fit. But it's all the SAME thing.

No one says anything new. It's the same argument over and over again like a broken record player. The same antiquated verses thrown around with little meaning. The same atheist argument with no creativity. No one is going to win the debate because everyone here believes themselves to be right. What if none of us are? What a surprise that would be.

We aren't even talking about something that can be proven. Its ridiculous. We might as well be arguing what color fairy wings are.

Is there not a topic here that can be discussed without head splitting repetition?

I'm glad to see how intelligent and well read everyone here is. However, the boredom is likely to turn me into a troll. And i dont like trolls. I could literally copy and paste the same response over and over again and I wonder sometimes if that isn't what everyone else is doing.

Your knowledge of scripture is impressive. Your scientific evidence is clever. But seriously. Where is the creativity? Where is anyone's desire to understand? Just because you understand another point of view doesn't make it fact. Does it challenge your faith in God, Allah, scientific reason, or "whatever" to give someone else's opinion consideration?

Watch the video please. It's literally what I see every time I enter this forum.

I want a new religious topic. A creative one. One that actually has real meaning and substance.

What if the debate is itself the meaning of life?

I enjoyed the video. Thank you.

The meaning of life would be good :)

We are all looking for agreement while failing to realize identity is born not, only, of sameness but also difference.

Very insightful. The end result doesn't have to be agreement. It could also be understanding or if not, acceptance. We should celebrate our differences.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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11/4/2014 9:39:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 6:51:05 PM, jodybirdy wrote:

I want a new religious topic. A creative one. One that actually has real meaning and substance.

Your wish is my command
http://www.debate.org...
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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11/4/2014 9:58:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 9:39:36 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/4/2014 6:51:05 PM, jodybirdy wrote:

I want a new religious topic. A creative one. One that actually has real meaning and substance.

Your wish is my command
http://www.debate.org...

At least one avoids the issue over whether it's real or not. But perhaps we have more than enough male-dominant religions. Personally, I prefer to retain the delusion that I'm in charge. Who wants a god with just one eye?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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11/4/2014 10:03:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 9:37:49 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/4/2014 7:25:10 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 11/4/2014 7:15:45 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/4/2014 7:12:14 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 11/4/2014 6:51:05 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
http://youtu.be...

It's all the same. Give it whatever name you choose. Represent it in whatever way you see fit. But it's all the SAME thing.

No one says anything new. It's the same argument over and over again like a broken record player. The same antiquated verses thrown around with little meaning. The same atheist argument with no creativity. No one is going to win the debate because everyone here believes themselves to be right. What if none of us are? What a surprise that would be.

We aren't even talking about something that can be proven. Its ridiculous. We might as well be arguing what color fairy wings are.

Is there not a topic here that can be discussed without head splitting repetition?

I'm glad to see how intelligent and well read everyone here is. However, the boredom is likely to turn me into a troll. And i dont like trolls. I could literally copy and paste the same response over and over again and I wonder sometimes if that isn't what everyone else is doing.

Your knowledge of scripture is impressive. Your scientific evidence is clever. But seriously. Where is the creativity? Where is anyone's desire to understand? Just because you understand another point of view doesn't make it fact. Does it challenge your faith in God, Allah, scientific reason, or "whatever" to give someone else's opinion consideration?

Watch the video please. It's literally what I see every time I enter this forum.

I want a new religious topic. A creative one. One that actually has real meaning and substance.

What if the debate is itself the meaning of life?

I enjoyed the video. Thank you.

The meaning of life would be good :)

We are all looking for agreement while failing to realize identity is born not, only, of sameness but also difference.

Very insightful. The end result doesn't have to be agreement. It could also be understanding or if not, acceptance. We should celebrate our differences.

The end result is always agreement, understanding, and acceptance.

However, as long as there is agreement, there will be disagreement; as long as there is understanding, there will be perplexity; and, as long as there is acceptance, there will be rejection. For, as there is an ending, there must also be a beginning.
NathanDuclos
Posts: 51
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11/4/2014 10:08:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 9:31:24 PM, jodybirdy wrote:

Not jaded, more bored than anything.

You know. You hit the target. I was wondering when it would be mentioned. Conversion and deconversion. That's the undercurrent and it is the disease here. I have absolutely no desire to change the way anyone believes. You're an atheist and I'm alright with that. I want to hear your point of view. I want to hear what everyone has to say and discuss their views to gain insight. I hope I'm not the only one who feels that way.

Hm... three reasons that I post stuff.
1) I like to debate for fun, religous or non religious.
2) It gives me a chance to learn and practice skills.
3) When I see someone saying something false, unprovable or just down right wrong, i feel the need to stand up and say "seriously".

The last is becasue I was in a school where gays were beat up till we stood up and claimed it that it was not right, I belong to a country that participated in the slave trade untill people stood up and said it was not right, ext ext. . . .

Also many theists turned athiest because they have to justify there faith when challenge. Many loose there religion when having to explain there beliefs. And while debating with you may not change your position, it may change the mind of someone who reads it.

My friend told me in a debate, its not the person you have to win over, its the audience.
NathanDuclos
Posts: 51
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11/4/2014 10:09:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
oh, and sorry. Thank you for the post. So far this is the nicest question and responce forum Ive been in for a while.

knock on wood. . . :)
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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11/4/2014 10:26:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 6:51:05 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
http://youtu.be...

It's all the same. Give it whatever name you choose. Represent it in whatever way you see fit. But it's all the SAME thing.

No one says anything new. It's the same argument over and over again like a broken record player. The same antiquated verses thrown around with little meaning. The same atheist argument with no creativity. No one is going to win the debate because everyone here believes themselves to be right. What if none of us are? What a surprise that would be.

We aren't even talking about something that can be proven. Its ridiculous. We might as well be arguing what color fairy wings are.

Is there not a topic here that can be discussed without head splitting repetition?

I'm glad to see how intelligent and well read everyone here is. However, the boredom is likely to turn me into a troll. And i dont like trolls. I could literally copy and paste the same response over and over again and I wonder sometimes if that isn't what everyone else is doing.

Your knowledge of scripture is impressive. Your scientific evidence is clever. But seriously. Where is the creativity? Where is anyone's desire to understand? Just because you understand another point of view doesn't make it fact. Does it challenge your faith in God, Allah, scientific reason, or "whatever" to give someone else's opinion consideration?

Watch the video please. It's literally what I see every time I enter this forum.

I want a new religious topic. A creative one. One that actually has real meaning and substance.

That's because My people are using My old thoughts that I gave them to entertain themselves with My illusions in the universe that they believe is real. The Google idea and the false new testament I gave man in this first age are where most of these forum members are getting their information from. They don't understand that they are plagiarizers of My old thoughts that I had other people write and speak.

Here's a new creative religious topic.

Did religion come from My plan called the beast or from My infinite knowledge called Christ?
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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11/4/2014 10:26:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 9:33:38 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 11/4/2014 9:07:58 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/4/2014 7:23:07 PM, Beastt wrote:

I can't say I'm qualified to show anyone anything. I haven't met a perfect human being yet and I'm the furthest thing from it. When I was a child I often pondered the question as whether I am even human. But I married a human and had babies so it must be that I'm a human after all! The fantasies of childhood are all eventually debunked and we are left to wonder if there is anything magical left in the world. What a disappointment.
I suppose we all have our childhood doubts. Perhaps those only fade away when we find that we're as capable as anyone else. And if we're not, some of those doubts may remain. I hope you don't mind if I hold your feet over the fire a bit here. As I understood it, you were asking for some fresh, creative ideas as points of debate and one needn't be perfect for that. If anyone can offer fresh creative ideas, I feel it would be you. I'd love to see some creative arguments. So what might you offer?

If I could show you and have anyone listen I would start with this: We are all ambassadors of our own cause. We should act like it, treat each other with dignity and attempt to understand without judgement.
Not a bad thought. Maybe even more poignant for those who believe they're supporting higher moral standards, but applicable to all.

Alas, that might not ever happen and someone's eventually going to get poked in the eye, or even worse the heart.
I suppose when one plays football, they have to know the helmet and pads don't guarantee that they won't be hurt. When one boxes, they have to know that the gloves don't stop the brutality. When people debate, they should know it might be rough. I'm not trying to excuse the blatantly abusive. But perhaps there's room to acknowledge the blatantly sensitive as well. We don't agree and sometimes we're hit with incredibly poor arguments, or worse yet, pleas which lack any compelling value. It can get a little rough from there.

Separation of church and state would be an excellent topic. The right to worship and the right not to. These are fundamental human rights and should be treated with equal importance.
It's a topic which is referenced fairly frequently. Yet still we see the puzzled queries of theist who can't understand why an atheist might care what they believe. And still we have courts finding in favor of illegal activities, because politics demands that you find in favor of the majority, sometimes even when it's wrong to do so.

As for the evolution verses creation topic. That one is going on still. I said it to you before. That horse also has been flayed to the point of dust and it's still being actively debated. So I will have to agree with you. Maybe it'll take less time than 200 years. I hope.
We have only 50-years to meet that deadline.

I would just like to see an important topic that doesn't digress into whether or not it's raining or sprinkling. Is it too much to ask?
I'm not sure how to make that happen when there is a fairly hard line between belief in a god, and disbelief in gods. I think most (if not all), related discussions will come back around to that. Then again...

... perhaps if you throw in diet, it tends to preclude either rain or sprinkles. :)

I'll give it a shot. Topic off the top of my mind:

What should be said to someone who is non-theist who loses everything they hold dear? What can be said that would be purely unselfish, without agenda for conversion that could bring them comfort? Theists need to know. I honestly have no idea how to comfort a Buddhist or Muslim either. Christian isn't as difficult for me because I have experience with that. I think the answer lies in love, but it would be important to know for sure.

I like what s-anthony said: The meaning of life. But I would rather know, what makes a life meaningful because we probably just have this one. How do you make it count no matter what your beliefs.

I don't think well with hot feet. ;)
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
jodybirdy
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11/4/2014 10:34:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 10:09:08 PM, NathanDuclos wrote:
oh, and sorry. Thank you for the post. So far this is the nicest question and responce forum Ive been in for a while.

knock on wood. . . :)

You're welcome. Thank you for your response and honesty :)

I think you're right about debate sometimes being more eye opening for the audience than the participants. That's why I read more often than I post.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
jodybirdy
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11/4/2014 10:41:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 10:26:18 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/4/2014 6:51:05 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
http://youtu.be...

It's all the same. Give it whatever name you choose. Represent it in whatever way you see fit. But it's all the SAME thing.

No one says anything new. It's the same argument over and over again like a broken record player. The same antiquated verses thrown around with little meaning. The same atheist argument with no creativity. No one is going to win the debate because everyone here believes themselves to be right. What if none of us are? What a surprise that would be.

We aren't even talking about something that can be proven. Its ridiculous. We might as well be arguing what color fairy wings are.

Is there not a topic here that can be discussed without head splitting repetition?

I'm glad to see how intelligent and well read everyone here is. However, the boredom is likely to turn me into a troll. And i dont like trolls. I could literally copy and paste the same response over and over again and I wonder sometimes if that isn't what everyone else is doing.

Your knowledge of scripture is impressive. Your scientific evidence is clever. But seriously. Where is the creativity? Where is anyone's desire to understand? Just because you understand another point of view doesn't make it fact. Does it challenge your faith in God, Allah, scientific reason, or "whatever" to give someone else's opinion consideration?

Watch the video please. It's literally what I see every time I enter this forum.

I want a new religious topic. A creative one. One that actually has real meaning and substance.

That's because My people are using My old thoughts that I gave them to entertain themselves with My illusions in the universe that they believe is real. The Google idea and the false new testament I gave man in this first age are where most of these forum members are getting their information from. They don't understand that they are plagiarizers of My old thoughts that I had other people write and speak.

Here's a new creative religious topic.

Did religion come from My plan called the beast or from My infinite knowledge called Christ?

Most people won't understand. Maybe it would be best to word it this way:

Religion is a deceptive illusion that imprisons the mind and blinds people to the truth.

That would be an interesting debate :)
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
jodybirdy
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11/4/2014 10:44:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 10:03:31 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 11/4/2014 9:37:49 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/4/2014 7:25:10 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 11/4/2014 7:15:45 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/4/2014 7:12:14 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 11/4/2014 6:51:05 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
http://youtu.be...

It's all the same. Give it whatever name you choose. Represent it in whatever way you see fit. But it's all the SAME thing.

No one says anything new. It's the same argument over and over again like a broken record player. The same antiquated verses thrown around with little meaning. The same atheist argument with no creativity. No one is going to win the debate because everyone here believes themselves to be right. What if none of us are? What a surprise that would be.

We aren't even talking about something that can be proven. Its ridiculous. We might as well be arguing what color fairy wings are.

Is there not a topic here that can be discussed without head splitting repetition?

I'm glad to see how intelligent and well read everyone here is. However, the boredom is likely to turn me into a troll. And i dont like trolls. I could literally copy and paste the same response over and over again and I wonder sometimes if that isn't what everyone else is doing.

Your knowledge of scripture is impressive. Your scientific evidence is clever. But seriously. Where is the creativity? Where is anyone's desire to understand? Just because you understand another point of view doesn't make it fact. Does it challenge your faith in God, Allah, scientific reason, or "whatever" to give someone else's opinion consideration?

Watch the video please. It's literally what I see every time I enter this forum.

I want a new religious topic. A creative one. One that actually has real meaning and substance.

What if the debate is itself the meaning of life?

I enjoyed the video. Thank you.

The meaning of life would be good :)

We are all looking for agreement while failing to realize identity is born not, only, of sameness but also difference.

Very insightful. The end result doesn't have to be agreement. It could also be understanding or if not, acceptance. We should celebrate our differences.

The end result is always agreement, understanding, and acceptance.

However, as long as there is agreement, there will be disagreement; as long as there is understanding, there will be perplexity; and, as long as there is acceptance, there will be rejection. For, as there is an ending, there must also be a beginning.

So we should all smile and agree to dis-agree? Might work. ;)
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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11/4/2014 10:45:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 10:44:00 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/4/2014 10:03:31 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 11/4/2014 9:37:49 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/4/2014 7:25:10 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 11/4/2014 7:15:45 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/4/2014 7:12:14 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 11/4/2014 6:51:05 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
http://youtu.be...

It's all the same. Give it whatever name you choose. Represent it in whatever way you see fit. But it's all the SAME thing.

No one says anything new. It's the same argument over and over again like a broken record player. The same antiquated verses thrown around with little meaning. The same atheist argument with no creativity. No one is going to win the debate because everyone here believes themselves to be right. What if none of us are? What a surprise that would be.

We aren't even talking about something that can be proven. Its ridiculous. We might as well be arguing what color fairy wings are.

Is there not a topic here that can be discussed without head splitting repetition?

I'm glad to see how intelligent and well read everyone here is. However, the boredom is likely to turn me into a troll. And i dont like trolls. I could literally copy and paste the same response over and over again and I wonder sometimes if that isn't what everyone else is doing.

Your knowledge of scripture is impressive. Your scientific evidence is clever. But seriously. Where is the creativity? Where is anyone's desire to understand? Just because you understand another point of view doesn't make it fact. Does it challenge your faith in God, Allah, scientific reason, or "whatever" to give someone else's opinion consideration?

Watch the video please. It's literally what I see every time I enter this forum.

I want a new religious topic. A creative one. One that actually has real meaning and substance.

What if the debate is itself the meaning of life?

I enjoyed the video. Thank you.

The meaning of life would be good :)

We are all looking for agreement while failing to realize identity is born not, only, of sameness but also difference.

Very insightful. The end result doesn't have to be agreement. It could also be understanding or if not, acceptance. We should celebrate our differences.

The end result is always agreement, understanding, and acceptance.

However, as long as there is agreement, there will be disagreement; as long as there is understanding, there will be perplexity; and, as long as there is acceptance, there will be rejection. For, as there is an ending, there must also be a beginning.

So we should all smile and agree to dis-agree? Might work. ;)

It probably would. But the religious have never tried it. Just when others start to smile, they over-step... "in the name of (a) god".
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Fly
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11/4/2014 10:48:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The universe itself is magical. Try looking at the rings of Saturn or the nearest galaxy through a telescope. Magic is what your mind makes it.

As for meaning in life, I have come to realize that sacrifice (sounds like a downer but isn't necessarily) and making memories give life the most meaning.
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
bornofgod
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11/4/2014 10:50:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 10:41:23 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/4/2014 10:26:18 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/4/2014 6:51:05 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
http://youtu.be...

It's all the same. Give it whatever name you choose. Represent it in whatever way you see fit. But it's all the SAME thing.

No one says anything new. It's the same argument over and over again like a broken record player. The same antiquated verses thrown around with little meaning. The same atheist argument with no creativity. No one is going to win the debate because everyone here believes themselves to be right. What if none of us are? What a surprise that would be.

We aren't even talking about something that can be proven. Its ridiculous. We might as well be arguing what color fairy wings are.

Is there not a topic here that can be discussed without head splitting repetition?

I'm glad to see how intelligent and well read everyone here is. However, the boredom is likely to turn me into a troll. And i dont like trolls. I could literally copy and paste the same response over and over again and I wonder sometimes if that isn't what everyone else is doing.

Your knowledge of scripture is impressive. Your scientific evidence is clever. But seriously. Where is the creativity? Where is anyone's desire to understand? Just because you understand another point of view doesn't make it fact. Does it challenge your faith in God, Allah, scientific reason, or "whatever" to give someone else's opinion consideration?

Watch the video please. It's literally what I see every time I enter this forum.

I want a new religious topic. A creative one. One that actually has real meaning and substance.

That's because My people are using My old thoughts that I gave them to entertain themselves with My illusions in the universe that they believe is real. The Google idea and the false new testament I gave man in this first age are where most of these forum members are getting their information from. They don't understand that they are plagiarizers of My old thoughts that I had other people write and speak.

Here's a new creative religious topic.

Did religion come from My plan called the beast or from My infinite knowledge called Christ?

Most people won't understand. Maybe it would be best to word it this way:

Religion is a deceptive illusion that imprisons the mind and blinds people to the truth.

That would be an interesting debate :)

Are debates a way to the Truth?
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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11/4/2014 10:55:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 10:26:39 PM, jodybirdy wrote:

What should be said to someone who is non-theist who loses everything they hold dear? What can be said that would be purely unselfish, without agenda for conversion that could bring them comfort? Theists need to know. I honestly have no idea how to comfort a Buddhist or Muslim either. Christian isn't as difficult for me because I have experience with that. I think the answer lies in love, but it would be important to know for sure.

You answered your own question. You offer to give them love. You offer to be there for them and to help in any way they need your help. Offer them accommodation if they need it. Offer them food if they need it. Offer them clothing if they need it. etc etc. Do what you can in a practical way. Be the good Samaritan. Praying to invisible entities for them never helped anyone. If someone is in need and you have what they need, it is not helpful to send them on their way with religious platitudes or ignore them and just go and pray that some God will help them.

I like what s-anthony said: The meaning of life. But I would rather know, what makes a life meaningful because we probably just have this one. How do you make it count no matter what your beliefs.

Love others and do to them what you would like them to do to you if you were in their situation. Put yourself in their shoes and walk a mile or two in those shoes. If they have no shoes give them your spare ones.
The purpose of life is to keep life alive as much as possible and to reproduce and take care of life so it grows and develops into something we know we would be proud of even after we are long gone.
Loving human actions make life meaningful to humans. Knowing you are loved and appreciated by other people makes life meaningful.
NathanDuclos
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11/4/2014 10:59:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 10:50:02 PM, bornofgod wrote:

Are debates a way to the Truth?

Its one of the time honoured positions.

As for the previous post of the meaning of lif. Its subjective like all things.

However is it a meaning to lif a valid question? Many of the question we ask have no meaning, like what is north of the north pole. So it may be that were asking the wrong questions or may not give them a prober format.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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11/4/2014 11:08:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 9:58:51 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 11/4/2014 9:39:36 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/4/2014 6:51:05 PM, jodybirdy wrote:

I want a new religious topic. A creative one. One that actually has real meaning and substance.

Your wish is my command
http://www.debate.org...

At least one avoids the issue over whether it's real or not. But perhaps we have more than enough male-dominant religions. Personally, I prefer to retain the delusion that I'm in charge. Who wants a god with just one eye?

I am afraid that Mother Nature is in charge of your life. She has sentenced you to death and is the only one who knows on what day she will execute you.
You won't know it till the day comes and even then it might hit you so suddenly that it will have come and gone like a thief in the night and stolen your life before you are ever aware of losing it.

All men love their little god with one eye. They fondle it lovingly and stroke it constantly. ;-) They are ruled by it and think with it more than they think with the brain in their head.
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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11/4/2014 11:20:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 10:50:02 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/4/2014 10:41:23 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/4/2014 10:26:18 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/4/2014 6:51:05 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
http://youtu.be...

It's all the same. Give it whatever name you choose. Represent it in whatever way you see fit. But it's all the SAME thing.

No one says anything new. It's the same argument over and over again like a broken record player. The same antiquated verses thrown around with little meaning. The same atheist argument with no creativity. No one is going to win the debate because everyone here believes themselves to be right. What if none of us are? What a surprise that would be.

We aren't even talking about something that can be proven. Its ridiculous. We might as well be arguing what color fairy wings are.

Is there not a topic here that can be discussed without head splitting repetition?

I'm glad to see how intelligent and well read everyone here is. However, the boredom is likely to turn me into a troll. And i dont like trolls. I could literally copy and paste the same response over and over again and I wonder sometimes if that isn't what everyone else is doing.

Your knowledge of scripture is impressive. Your scientific evidence is clever. But seriously. Where is the creativity? Where is anyone's desire to understand? Just because you understand another point of view doesn't make it fact. Does it challenge your faith in God, Allah, scientific reason, or "whatever" to give someone else's opinion consideration?

Watch the video please. It's literally what I see every time I enter this forum.

I want a new religious topic. A creative one. One that actually has real meaning and substance.

That's because My people are using My old thoughts that I gave them to entertain themselves with My illusions in the universe that they believe is real. The Google idea and the false new testament I gave man in this first age are where most of these forum members are getting their information from. They don't understand that they are plagiarizers of My old thoughts that I had other people write and speak.

Here's a new creative religious topic.

Did religion come from My plan called the beast or from My infinite knowledge called Christ?

Most people won't understand. Maybe it would be best to word it this way:

Religion is a deceptive illusion that imprisons the mind and blinds people to the truth.

That would be an interesting debate :)

Are debates a way to the Truth?

No. The winner isn't always truthful.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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11/4/2014 11:25:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 11:08:09 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/4/2014 9:58:51 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 11/4/2014 9:39:36 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/4/2014 6:51:05 PM, jodybirdy wrote:

I want a new religious topic. A creative one. One that actually has real meaning and substance.

Your wish is my command
http://www.debate.org...

At least one avoids the issue over whether it's real or not. But perhaps we have more than enough male-dominant religions. Personally, I prefer to retain the delusion that I'm in charge. Who wants a god with just one eye?

I am afraid that Mother Nature is in charge of your life. She has sentenced you to death and is the only one who knows on what day she will execute you.
You won't know it till the day comes and even then it might hit you so suddenly that it will have come and gone like a thief in the night and stolen your life before you are ever aware of losing it.

All men love their little god with one eye. They fondle it lovingly and stroke it constantly. ;-) They are ruled by it and think with it more than they think with the brain in their head.

All men? Or just the men you've known well enough to know?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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11/4/2014 11:54:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 9:39:36 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/4/2014 6:51:05 PM, jodybirdy wrote:

I want a new religious topic. A creative one. One that actually has real meaning and substance.

Your wish is my command
http://www.debate.org...

I can dig it. Bwahahahaa!
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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11/4/2014 11:56:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 9:58:51 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 11/4/2014 9:39:36 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/4/2014 6:51:05 PM, jodybirdy wrote:

I want a new religious topic. A creative one. One that actually has real meaning and substance.

Your wish is my command
http://www.debate.org...

At least one avoids the issue over whether it's real or not. But perhaps we have more than enough male-dominant religions. Personally, I prefer to retain the delusion that I'm in charge. Who wants a god with just one eye?

The one eyed god is going stick it to you if you haven't been a good boy.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."