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Can gays be Christians?

jodybirdy
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11/5/2014 6:05:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 5:47:31 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
I think they can, but I want to hear your view.

Sure. They just can't practice being gay unless it is a progressive church that welcomes them.

I think that gays can be theists and I think that they can follow the words of Jesus. In my opinion it doesn't matter a hill of beans what someones sexual preferences are to anyone or any God that matters. Basically, if they're judging, then they aren't very Christian are they? Christians aren't supposed to judge others. It is written in black and white.

But they do. The hell fire and damnation will now commence.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
SitaraMusica
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11/5/2014 6:12:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 6:05:37 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/5/2014 5:47:31 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
I think they can, but I want to hear your view.

Sure. They just can't practice being gay unless it is a progressive church that welcomes them.

I think that gays can be theists and I think that they can follow the words of Jesus. In my opinion it doesn't matter a hill of beans what someones sexual preferences are to anyone or any God that matters. Basically, if they're judging, then they aren't very Christian are they? Christians aren't supposed to judge others. It is written in black and white.

But they do. The hell fire and damnation will now commence.

I agree. Well said. What do you think of: http://www.gaychristian101.com...
mortsdor
Posts: 1,181
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11/5/2014 6:35:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 6:05:37 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
Christians aren't supposed to judge others. It is written in black and white.

Christians are supposed to stone gays... It's written in Black and White.

Lev 20:13
And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Jesus says: (Matthew 5:17-18)
"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."
Cryo
Posts: 202
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11/5/2014 6:48:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The convenient thing about Christianity is that it can be whatever you want it to be. You can pick and choose whichever verses you want and use them to justify your particular brand of Christianity. This is why we have hundreds and hundreds of denominations.

You ask a more liberal, non-denominational Christian on the west coast if gays can be Christians, you'll probably hear more yes's than no's. Ask a Baptist or a Church of Christ member down south? You'll most likely hear the opposite.

If you're gay and looking for a church, you can find a church that will accept you for who you are. If you can't, then I would suggest your ask yourself why you want to be associated with people who would reject you. Being an atheist, I would say you should reconsider Christianity as a whole, but that's up to you.

On the other hand, if you're a member of a church asking whether gays should be accepted as Christians, I would urge you to look inside yourself instead of to your pastor or community and decide whether you feel like gays deserve to be treated with less dignity than heterosexuals.
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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11/5/2014 7:11:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 6:35:58 PM, mortsdor wrote:
At 11/5/2014 6:05:37 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
Christians aren't supposed to judge others. It is written in black and white.

Christians are supposed to stone gays... It's written in Black and White.

Lev 20:13
And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Jesus says: (Matthew 5:17-18)
"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

Ah... the contradictions. It's unsettling isn't it? Stoning? I think that was settled by Jesus and the adulterer.

New International Version (NIV)

Jesus on Judging Others

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged."For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother"s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"How can you say to your brother, "Let me take the speck out of your eye," when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?"You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother"s eye."

Just sayin'. Black and white.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
mortsdor
Posts: 1,181
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11/5/2014 7:14:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Lev 20:13
And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

yeah, ok...

So before the christians kill the gays they should take the planks out of their own eyes..

And Then kill the gays.
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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11/5/2014 7:22:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 7:14:40 PM, mortsdor wrote:
Lev 20:13
And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

yeah, ok...

So before the christians kill the gays they should take the planks out of their own eyes..

And Then kill the gays.

Pretty much. Gays are bad juju according to the old testament. But it's okay that Abraham and his wife were brother and sister. It's okay to get freaky with your sister/brother but you better not be gay. Double standards. Contradictions. If you haven't read Genesis you should. It's like an HBO, R rated drama series. It's got it all. Sex, lies, murder. Good reads.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,239
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11/5/2014 7:23:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 5:47:31 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
I think they can, but I want to hear your view.

I know its splitting hairs, but the orientation of gay does not specifically mean sexually active, and the Bible has different punishments for impure thoughts as opposed to action.

A person of homosexual orientation whom doesn't practice their sexuality out of adherence to their religious code could very much be a Christian.

This point is not meant to address the gay members of a church whom engage in same sex relations, of course, however its the 'in road' for how some one contrary to religious doctrine could be an upstanding member in their church without being seen as morally compromised.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
SitaraMusica
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11/5/2014 7:39:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 7:23:30 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 11/5/2014 5:47:31 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
I think they can, but I want to hear your view.


I know its splitting hairs, but the orientation of gay does not specifically mean sexually active, and the Bible has different punishments for impure thoughts as opposed to action.

A person of homosexual orientation whom doesn't practice their sexuality out of adherence to their religious code could very much be a Christian.

This point is not meant to address the gay members of a church whom engage in same sex relations, of course, however its the 'in road' for how some one contrary to religious doctrine could be an upstanding member in their church without being seen as morally compromised.
What about gays that get married? Are they Christians?
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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11/5/2014 7:58:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I am in no way supportive of Homosexuals & Or their activities however from the biblical point of view the bottom-line is that the xtian god is responsible for having Created them and maintaining their existence -

Col. 1:16-17.

So for these so called believers, them objecting to what their god has done and maintains, they are effectively ' fighting against their own god? '.
mortsdor
Posts: 1,181
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11/5/2014 8:10:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 7:39:28 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
What about gays that get married? Are they Christians?

What do you think about the passage/law in Leviticus?
(which, as I posted, was affirmed by Jesus in the book of Matthew)

It says if a man lies with a man as mankind lies with woman then he's to be put to death... and that his death is his own fault.

I agree with Faustian that this doesn't prevent celibate gay people from being christians... But if there are any gay people who have had sex with other dudes... Doesn't the law of Leviticus require they be killed?

IF you deny the words of Jesus in the book of Matthew, and discount the laws of the OT, I can see how you might think sexually active gays could be christians...

but if you accept the words of jesus in the book of Matthew, then I would think the two sexually active married gay catholics, (if they also accepted the book of Matthew, and so accept the laws of the OT) would seek to have each other killed.
SitaraMusica
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11/5/2014 8:22:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 8:10:33 PM, mortsdor wrote:
At 11/5/2014 7:39:28 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
What about gays that get married? Are they Christians?

What do you think about the passage/law in Leviticus?
(which, as I posted, was affirmed by Jesus in the book of Matthew)

It says if a man lies with a man as mankind lies with woman then he's to be put to death... and that his death is his own fault.


I agree with Faustian that this doesn't prevent celibate gay people from being christians... But if there are any gay people who have had sex with other dudes... Doesn't the law of Leviticus require they be killed?


IF you deny the words of Jesus in the book of Matthew, and discount the laws of the OT, I can see how you might think sexually active gays could be christians...

but if you accept the words of jesus in the book of Matthew, then I would think the two sexually active married gay catholics, (if they also accepted the book of Matthew, and so accept the laws of the OT) would seek to have each other killed.

I disagree with your religious opinion and point you towards 2 Samuel 1:26.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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11/5/2014 8:22:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 8:10:33 PM, mortsdor wrote:
At 11/5/2014 7:39:28 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
What about gays that get married? Are they Christians?

What do you think about the passage/law in Leviticus?
(which, as I posted, was affirmed by Jesus in the book of Matthew)

It says if a man lies with a man as mankind lies with woman then he's to be put to death... and that his death is his own fault.


I agree with Faustian that this doesn't prevent celibate gay people from being christians... But if there are any gay people who have had sex with other dudes... Doesn't the law of Leviticus require they be killed?


IF you deny the words of Jesus in the book of Matthew, and discount the laws of the OT, I can see how you might think sexually active gays could be christians...

but if you accept the words of jesus in the book of Matthew, then I would think the two sexually active married gay catholics, (if they also accepted the book of Matthew, and so accept the laws of the OT) would seek to have each other killed.

Just a few points.
- Nothing about Christianity suggests that you can't "sin". That's really quite the point of the "sacrifice" of Jesus.
- Being put to death doesn't preclude one from being Christian. The argument can be made that Christianity is the worship of death, over life.
- While I get the context, there are no "words of Jesus" in Matthew or anywhere else in the Bible. But I understand the statement for the sake of argument.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
mortsdor
Posts: 1,181
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11/5/2014 8:25:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 8:22:02 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
I disagree with your religious opinion and point you towards 2 Samuel 1:26.

Are you suggesting that David was gay?
Also, regardless of whether he was or not...

Do you accept the passage from the Book of Matthew where Jesus Affirms every law of the OT?

Do you acknowledge that leviticus contains a law saying that men who lie with men are to be killed?
SitaraMusica
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11/5/2014 8:31:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 8:25:48 PM, mortsdor wrote:
At 11/5/2014 8:22:02 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
I disagree with your religious opinion and point you towards 2 Samuel 1:26.

Are you suggesting that David was gay?
Also, regardless of whether he was or not...

Do you accept the passage from the Book of Matthew where Jesus Affirms every law of the OT?

Do you acknowledge that leviticus contains a law saying that men who lie with men are to be killed?
You are again asserting your religious opinion against the facts. The passages against gays refer to religious prostitution, not same sex marriage. That verse about David and Jonathan refers to a loving same sex marriage.
mortsdor
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11/5/2014 8:33:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 8:22:23 PM, Beastt wrote:
Just a few points.
- Nothing about Christianity suggests that you can't "sin". That's really quite the point of the "sacrifice" of Jesus.
acknowledged in my last post
- Being put to death doesn't preclude one from being Christian. The argument can be made that Christianity is the worship of death, over life.
True enough.
- While I get the context, there are no "words of Jesus" in Matthew or anywhere else in the Bible. But I understand the statement for the sake of argument.

Jesus speaks in the book of matthew, just as Tyrion speaks in A Song of Ice and Fire...

Granted Jesus also may've been an actual fellow who actually said some similar stuff...

But In the Book of Matthew Jesus definitely says what I said he did.. he also heals the blind and allows the mute to speak :o)
mortsdor
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11/5/2014 8:37:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 8:31:23 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
The passages against gays refer to religious prostitution, not same sex marriage.

I thought it was pretty straightforward in saying that men who lie with men, in a sexual manner should be killed.

Why do you think it has to do with 'religious prostitution'

Do you have quotes or context?
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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11/5/2014 8:42:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 8:33:15 PM, mortsdor wrote:
At 11/5/2014 8:22:23 PM, Beastt wrote:
Just a few points.
- Nothing about Christianity suggests that you can't "sin". That's really quite the point of the "sacrifice" of Jesus.
acknowledged in my last post
- Being put to death doesn't preclude one from being Christian. The argument can be made that Christianity is the worship of death, over life.
True enough.
- While I get the context, there are no "words of Jesus" in Matthew or anywhere else in the Bible. But I understand the statement for the sake of argument.

Jesus speaks in the book of matthew, just as Tyrion speaks in A Song of Ice and Fire...

Granted Jesus also may've been an actual fellow who actually said some similar stuff...
Both of which were covered under my understanding of the statements for the sake of argument. It just feeds the common Christian delusion that Matthew owned a signed copy of Jesus' best selling CD, "The Words of Me". It's more likely that Jesus didn't exist.

But In the Book of Matthew Jesus definitely says what I said he did.. he also heals the blind and allows the mute to speak :o)
The character in the story certainly does say those things. But we can see the actual source of many of the quotations, and they're not Jesus. He also conspires to steal two donkeys.

Back to the gay Christians...
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
SitaraMusica
Posts: 1,060
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11/5/2014 8:43:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 8:37:31 PM, mortsdor wrote:
At 11/5/2014 8:31:23 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
The passages against gays refer to religious prostitution, not same sex marriage.

I thought it was pretty straightforward in saying that men who lie with men, in a sexual manner should be killed.

Why do you think it has to do with 'religious prostitution'

Do you have quotes or context?

I have done my research. You can find references on the site in my signature.
mortsdor
Posts: 1,181
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11/5/2014 8:44:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 8:22:23 PM, Beastt wrote:
- Nothing about Christianity suggests that you can't "sin". That's really quite the point of the "sacrifice" of Jesus.

Actually, contrary to what I said before, this is a bad point.

I didn't suggest that Christianity doesn't allow one to sin.. or that it doesn't allow for forgiveness either.

I suggested that in christianity there is a law which requires the killing of males who've engaged in gay sex.
SitaraMusica
Posts: 1,060
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11/5/2014 8:44:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 6:35:58 PM, mortsdor wrote:
At 11/5/2014 6:05:37 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
Christians aren't supposed to judge others. It is written in black and white.

Christians are supposed to stone gays... It's written in Black and White.

Lev 20:13
And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Jesus says: (Matthew 5:17-18)
"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

No they are not. Gays have the right to live.
SitaraMusica
Posts: 1,060
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11/5/2014 8:46:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 6:48:59 PM, Cryo wrote:
The convenient thing about Christianity is that it can be whatever you want it to be. You can pick and choose whichever verses you want and use them to justify your particular brand of Christianity. This is why we have hundreds and hundreds of denominations.

You ask a more liberal, non-denominational Christian on the west coast if gays can be Christians, you'll probably hear more yes's than no's. Ask a Baptist or a Church of Christ member down south? You'll most likely hear the opposite.

If you're gay and looking for a church, you can find a church that will accept you for who you are. If you can't, then I would suggest your ask yourself why you want to be associated with people who would reject you. Being an atheist, I would say you should reconsider Christianity as a whole, but that's up to you.

On the other hand, if you're a member of a church asking whether gays should be accepted as Christians, I would urge you to look inside yourself instead of to your pastor or community and decide whether you feel like gays deserve to be treated with less dignity than heterosexuals.
I agree with you. Well said.
Beastt
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11/5/2014 8:46:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 8:44:31 PM, mortsdor wrote:
At 11/5/2014 8:22:23 PM, Beastt wrote:
- Nothing about Christianity suggests that you can't "sin". That's really quite the point of the "sacrifice" of Jesus.

Actually, contrary to what I said before, this is a bad point.

I didn't suggest that Christianity doesn't allow one to sin.. or that it doesn't allow for forgiveness either.

I suggested that in christianity there is a law which requires the killing of males who've engaged in gay sex.

Thank you for the re-cap. And I pointed out that neither sinning, nor being dead precludes one from being a Christian, according to Christian doctrine.
(See topic)
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
mortsdor
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11/5/2014 8:47:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 8:42:25 PM, Beastt wrote:
Both of which were covered under my understanding of the statements for the sake of argument. It just feeds the common Christian delusion that Matthew owned a signed copy of Jesus' best selling CD, "The Words of Me". It's more likely that Jesus didn't exist.

Yeah, you're annoying, and descended from those Herbivorous Jackasses Jesus stole, amirite?
mortsdor
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11/5/2014 8:49:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 8:43:44 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 11/5/2014 8:37:31 PM, mortsdor wrote:
Why do you think it has to do with 'religious prostitution'

Do you have quotes or context?

I have done my research. You can find references on the site in my signature.

oh, so you don't have any argument at all?

OK

maybe you shouldn't come to a debate site then.
mortsdor
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11/5/2014 8:53:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 8:44:41 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
No they are not. Gays have the right to live.

It seems to me that christian scripture, in a Very straightforward manner, says that sexually active gay males should be put to death.

and you've really not given any argument contradicting, or re-interpreting the passages that I provided...

you just provided a passage which you suggested meant that David was Gay.. (not really super relevant to the law at hand)... and then posted a link to a website for gay christians.
Beastt
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11/5/2014 8:55:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 8:47:19 PM, mortsdor wrote:
At 11/5/2014 8:42:25 PM, Beastt wrote:
Both of which were covered under my understanding of the statements for the sake of argument. It just feeds the common Christian delusion that Matthew owned a signed copy of Jesus' best selling CD, "The Words of Me". It's more likely that Jesus didn't exist.

Yeah, you're annoying, and descended from those Herbivorous Jackasses Jesus stole, amirite?

Better question; Are you anna?
Learn to take it or don't play. 'kay?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
bornofgod
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11/5/2014 8:56:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 5:47:31 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
I think they can, but I want to hear your view.

Any of God's people can be a Christian as long as God planned for them to be one. Most Christians are heathens who have no idea who God is so it makes no difference what they call themselves. However, there are a few chosen believers of God who call themselves Christians.