Total Posts:25|Showing Posts:1-25
Jump to topic:

Transcendent experiences...

Idealist
Posts: 2,520
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/5/2014 10:26:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Google describes "transcendent" as "beyond or above the range of normal or merely physical human experience." Out of great curiosity, I was wondering if anyone on here has experienced such a phenomenon in their lifetimes. There is no need to expand on the experience if you fear it might bring you mockery, but it's a subject I've been very interested in. Thanks. :)
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/5/2014 11:26:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 10:26:30 PM, Idealist wrote:
Google describes "transcendent" as "beyond or above the range of normal or merely physical human experience." Out of great curiosity, I was wondering if anyone on here has experienced such a phenomenon in their lifetimes. There is no need to expand on the experience if you fear it might bring you mockery, but it's a subject I've been very interested in. Thanks. :)

Do the space monkeys in my toaster count? They're a real problem for me.

Joking. :P I can't say as I have ever had a transcendent experience. But I imagine it would be fun if I did.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,219
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/5/2014 11:29:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 10:26:30 PM, Idealist wrote:
Google describes "transcendent" as "beyond or above the range of normal or merely physical human experience." Out of great curiosity, I was wondering if anyone on here has experienced such a phenomenon in their lifetimes. There is no need to expand on the experience if you fear it might bring you mockery, but it's a subject I've been very interested in. Thanks. :)

I don't know if it fits the bill, but I have had a few expiriences like that usually tied to a very calmed setting.

I am not going to be so bold as to call them religious expiriences, or the like, but yes. Basically, they were uncharacteristic feelings of deep understanding related to... well, nothing, really. I was just enjoying a moment of solitude.

Asking for details might be futile, I don't have much to offer in the way of describing what it was, or if it was a singular spiritual sensation, but I know its not something replicated, despite best efforts.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
bulproof
Posts: 25,227
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/5/2014 11:29:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 11:26:31 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/5/2014 10:26:30 PM, Idealist wrote:
Google describes "transcendent" as "beyond or above the range of normal or merely physical human experience." Out of great curiosity, I was wondering if anyone on here has experienced such a phenomenon in their lifetimes. There is no need to expand on the experience if you fear it might bring you mockery, but it's a subject I've been very interested in. Thanks. :)

Do the space monkeys in my toaster count? They're a real problem for me.

Joking. :P I can't say as I have ever had a transcendent experience. But I imagine it would be fun if I did.

When I was youinger I used to enjoy my room spinning. Does that count? Spirits sometimes were involved.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/5/2014 11:30:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'm still trying to figure out the part where a human experiences something above or beyond human experience.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/5/2014 11:32:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 11:29:32 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/5/2014 11:26:31 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/5/2014 10:26:30 PM, Idealist wrote:
Google describes "transcendent" as "beyond or above the range of normal or merely physical human experience." Out of great curiosity, I was wondering if anyone on here has experienced such a phenomenon in their lifetimes. There is no need to expand on the experience if you fear it might bring you mockery, but it's a subject I've been very interested in. Thanks. :)

Do the space monkeys in my toaster count? They're a real problem for me.

Joking. :P I can't say as I have ever had a transcendent experience. But I imagine it would be fun if I did.

When I was youinger I used to enjoy my room spinning. Does that count? Spirits sometimes were involved.

Spirits and spinning rooms count.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,219
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/5/2014 11:34:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 11:30:27 PM, Beastt wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out the part where a human experiences something above or beyond human experience.

'normal' human expiriences.

For example, one wouldn't expect the muse of writing to descend while shaving in the bath, especially if you aren't by nature a writer, but that doesn't mean you don't want to get what you just thought of down on paper. Such inspiration would be an expirience out of the norm.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/5/2014 11:36:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 11:30:27 PM, Beastt wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out the part where a human experiences something above or beyond human experience.

You and about 7 billion other people. You should try zebra footie pajamas. I feel transcendent when I wear these bad boys.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
bulproof
Posts: 25,227
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/5/2014 11:37:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 11:34:51 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 11/5/2014 11:30:27 PM, Beastt wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out the part where a human experiences something above or beyond human experience.

'normal' human expiriences.

For example, one wouldn't expect the muse of writing to descend while shaving in the bath, especially if you aren't by nature a writer, but that doesn't mean you don't want to get what you just thought of down on paper. Such inspiration would be an expirience out of the norm.

If your using an electric shaver you might get an experience.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/5/2014 11:41:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 11:36:33 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/5/2014 11:30:27 PM, Beastt wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out the part where a human experiences something above or beyond human experience.

You and about 7 billion other people. You should try zebra footie pajamas. I feel transcendent when I wear these bad boys.

We could prop you up on a zebra and no one would be able to find you. If you ever had need to hide in the middle of a zebra herd in the middle of the night, you're all set. But be careful. They bite!
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/5/2014 11:42:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 11:34:51 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 11/5/2014 11:30:27 PM, Beastt wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out the part where a human experiences something above or beyond human experience.

'normal' human expiriences.
As in "normal human" or "normal experience"?

If it's the former, this thread should be very popular!
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,095
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/5/2014 11:42:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 11:30:27 PM, Beastt wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out the part where a human experiences something above or beyond human experience.

It makes me think of altered states of consciousness brought on by drugs, fasting, and or meditation..
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,095
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/5/2014 11:44:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 11:36:33 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/5/2014 11:30:27 PM, Beastt wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out the part where a human experiences something above or beyond human experience.

You and about 7 billion other people. You should try zebra footie pajamas. I feel transcendent when I wear these bad boys.

Stop it! I almost woke up my wife laughing!
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/6/2014 5:27:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 10:26:30 PM, Idealist wrote:
Google describes "transcendent" as "beyond or above the range of normal or merely physical human experience." Out of great curiosity, I was wondering if anyone on here has experienced such a phenomenon in their lifetimes. There is no need to expand on the experience if you fear it might bring you mockery, but it's a subject I've been very interested in. Thanks. :)

Everything I testify for God is not of this world. He's used many visions and dreams to teach me things that no man could ever understand unless they were taught directly by our Creator like I have been.

I have absolutely no fear now that I have the knowledge of God to know we exist as characters in His program called Eternal Life.
Thanksfornotraping
Posts: 238
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/6/2014 6:15:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 10:26:30 PM, Idealist wrote:
Google describes "transcendent" as "beyond or above the range of normal or merely physical human experience." Out of great curiosity, I was wondering if anyone on here has experienced such a phenomenon in their lifetimes. There is no need to expand on the experience if you fear it might bring you mockery, but it's a subject I've been very interested in. Thanks. :)

I've had a few myself. When I was a kid around ages 5-9, when I would get sick, my spirit (or myself without the body) would float up to the ceiling. Up there I had the visual perspective as if my body eyeballs were there. I would think it was awesome then try to look down at my body and I'd pop right back in it. And just to clarify if anyone cares, it was a completely different experience than feeling "high" while on pot.

The second experience, and a much more powerful one, was when I used to pray nightly in my 20s for any signs that there was an afterlife, heaven, God, etc. One day I woke up and had an instantaneous vision/feeling that all of us were made of pure love and that all existence was really pure joy (despite what earthly pains we may feel). I cried for a few hours as it was literally life changing (for the better) and beyond my normal perceptions.

I have two more kinda neato related experiences if anyone wants to hear- just reply to this and I'll share...
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/6/2014 6:21:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 11:26:31 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/5/2014 10:26:30 PM, Idealist wrote:
Google describes "transcendent" as "beyond or above the range of normal or merely physical human experience." Out of great curiosity, I was wondering if anyone on here has experienced such a phenomenon in their lifetimes. There is no need to expand on the experience if you fear it might bring you mockery, but it's a subject I've been very interested in. Thanks. :)

Do the space monkeys in my toaster count? They're a real problem for me.

Joking. :P I can't say as I have ever had a transcendent experience. But I imagine it would be fun if I did.

Many people seem to feel transcendent experiences while listening to music, falling in love, etc. It doesn't have to be spiritual. You've never really felt that your essence transcended the physical reality around you?
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/6/2014 6:25:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/5/2014 11:29:19 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 11/5/2014 10:26:30 PM, Idealist wrote:
Google describes "transcendent" as "beyond or above the range of normal or merely physical human experience." Out of great curiosity, I was wondering if anyone on here has experienced such a phenomenon in their lifetimes. There is no need to expand on the experience if you fear it might bring you mockery, but it's a subject I've been very interested in. Thanks. :)

I don't know if it fits the bill, but I have had a few expiriences like that usually tied to a very calmed setting.

I am not going to be so bold as to call them religious expiriences, or the like, but yes. Basically, they were uncharacteristic feelings of deep understanding related to... well, nothing, really. I was just enjoying a moment of solitude.

Asking for details might be futile, I don't have much to offer in the way of describing what it was, or if it was a singular spiritual sensation, but I know its not something replicated, despite best efforts.

I would never invade your privacy by asking for details, though I have to admit that transcendent experiences intrigue me. A lot of researchers are beginning to be more interested on what it is they really are. Some famous inventions and scientific breakthroughs have come in the middle of a transcendent experience. I can't help but wonder what it is that can cause our minds to reach levels they normally seem incapable of, you know?
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/6/2014 6:28:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/6/2014 6:21:04 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 11/5/2014 11:26:31 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/5/2014 10:26:30 PM, Idealist wrote:
Google describes "transcendent" as "beyond or above the range of normal or merely physical human experience." Out of great curiosity, I was wondering if anyone on here has experienced such a phenomenon in their lifetimes. There is no need to expand on the experience if you fear it might bring you mockery, but it's a subject I've been very interested in. Thanks. :)

Do the space monkeys in my toaster count? They're a real problem for me.

Joking. :P I can't say as I have ever had a transcendent experience. But I imagine it would be fun if I did.

Many people seem to feel transcendent experiences while listening to music, falling in love, etc. It doesn't have to be spiritual. You've never really felt that your essence transcended the physical reality around you?

Sometimes I feel that way with my kids. Total love and amazement springs out of me. And only a few times when I've been really happy. And when I dream.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/6/2014 6:35:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/6/2014 6:15:43 PM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 11/5/2014 10:26:30 PM, Idealist wrote:
Google describes "transcendent" as "beyond or above the range of normal or merely physical human experience." Out of great curiosity, I was wondering if anyone on here has experienced such a phenomenon in their lifetimes. There is no need to expand on the experience if you fear it might bring you mockery, but it's a subject I've been very interested in. Thanks. :)

I've had a few myself. When I was a kid around ages 5-9, when I would get sick, my spirit (or myself without the body) would float up to the ceiling. Up there I had the visual perspective as if my body eyeballs were there. I would think it was awesome then try to look down at my body and I'd pop right back in it. And just to clarify if anyone cares, it was a completely different experience than feeling "high" while on pot.

The second experience, and a much more powerful one, was when I used to pray nightly in my 20s for any signs that there was an afterlife, heaven, God, etc. One day I woke up and had an instantaneous vision/feeling that all of us were made of pure love and that all existence was really pure joy (despite what earthly pains we may feel). I cried for a few hours as it was literally life changing (for the better) and beyond my normal perceptions.

I have two more kinda neato related experiences if anyone wants to hear- just reply to this and I'll share...

I would be interested in hearing them. You can send me a PM if it's something you'd rather not post in public. I'm very interested in the kind of experiences which are hard to explain by naturalism alone.
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/6/2014 6:39:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/6/2014 6:28:54 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/6/2014 6:21:04 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 11/5/2014 11:26:31 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/5/2014 10:26:30 PM, Idealist wrote:
Google describes "transcendent" as "beyond or above the range of normal or merely physical human experience." Out of great curiosity, I was wondering if anyone on here has experienced such a phenomenon in their lifetimes. There is no need to expand on the experience if you fear it might bring you mockery, but it's a subject I've been very interested in. Thanks. :)

Do the space monkeys in my toaster count? They're a real problem for me.

Joking. :P I can't say as I have ever had a transcendent experience. But I imagine it would be fun if I did.

Many people seem to feel transcendent experiences while listening to music, falling in love, etc. It doesn't have to be spiritual. You've never really felt that your essence transcended the physical reality around you?

Sometimes I feel that way with my kids. Total love and amazement springs out of me. And only a few times when I've been really happy. And when I dream.

Interesting. I have this personal theory I toy with sometimes that transcendent experiences really come from another level of consciousness. Nobody really knows exactly how many levels we have, and we all know that this kind of phenomena can be tripped by physical state, like hypnosis. Oh, and my kids have often made me feel amazed as well. :)
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/6/2014 6:42:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/6/2014 6:35:20 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 11/6/2014 6:15:43 PM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 11/5/2014 10:26:30 PM, Idealist wrote:
Google describes "transcendent" as "beyond or above the range of normal or merely physical human experience." Out of great curiosity, I was wondering if anyone on here has experienced such a phenomenon in their lifetimes. There is no need to expand on the experience if you fear it might bring you mockery, but it's a subject I've been very interested in. Thanks. :)

I've had a few myself. When I was a kid around ages 5-9, when I would get sick, my spirit (or myself without the body) would float up to the ceiling. Up there I had the visual perspective as if my body eyeballs were there. I would think it was awesome then try to look down at my body and I'd pop right back in it. And just to clarify if anyone cares, it was a completely different experience than feeling "high" while on pot.

The second experience, and a much more powerful one, was when I used to pray nightly in my 20s for any signs that there was an afterlife, heaven, God, etc. One day I woke up and had an instantaneous vision/feeling that all of us were made of pure love and that all existence was really pure joy (despite what earthly pains we may feel). I cried for a few hours as it was literally life changing (for the better) and beyond my normal perceptions.

I have two more kinda neato related experiences if anyone wants to hear- just reply to this and I'll share...

I would be interested in hearing them. You can send me a PM if it's something you'd rather not post in public. I'm very interested in the kind of experiences which are hard to explain by naturalism alone.

Wait a minute... what I want to hear it too. ;) Seriously. I'd like to know what they were.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
Thanksfornotraping
Posts: 238
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/6/2014 8:31:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/6/2014 6:35:20 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 11/6/2014 6:15:43 PM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 11/5/2014 10:26:30 PM, Idealist wrote:
Google describes "transcendent" as "beyond or above the range of normal or merely physical human experience." Out of great curiosity, I was wondering if anyone on here has experienced such a phenomenon in their lifetimes. There is no need to expand on the experience if you fear it might bring you mockery, but it's a subject I've been very interested in. Thanks. :)

I've had a few myself. When I was a kid around ages 5-9, when I would get sick, my spirit (or myself without the body) would float up to the ceiling. Up there I had the visual perspective as if my body eyeballs were there. I would think it was awesome then try to look down at my body and I'd pop right back in it. And just to clarify if anyone cares, it was a completely different experience than feeling "high" while on pot.

The second experience, and a much more powerful one, was when I used to pray nightly in my 20s for any signs that there was an afterlife, heaven, God, etc. One day I woke up and had an instantaneous vision/feeling that all of us were made of pure love and that all existence was really pure joy (despite what earthly pains we may feel). I cried for a few hours as it was literally life changing (for the better) and beyond my normal perceptions.

I have two more kinda neato related experiences if anyone wants to hear- just reply to this and I'll share...

I would be interested in hearing them. You can send me a PM if it's something you'd rather not post in public. I'm very interested in the kind of experiences which are hard to explain by naturalism alone.

I'm basically a compu-tard, so I'll just write here. After my "awakening" I had more desire to try to get to this "loving place" which I thought was outside of me (as my life was not all love, duh). Within a few weeks I was walking down the street to my college class when I paused after passing a wooden (they were basically all wooden at this time and every pole was plastered with fliers) phone pole that had numerous fliers stapled to it. For whatever reason, I paused, turned back, and walked to that pole and saw a flier for a Richard Rose conference. Richard Rose is dead now, and I had no idea at that time who or what he was. The talk was sponsored by the the local college's philosophical society and I thought it would be interesting to attend.

I arrived at the conference room about 20 minutes before Rose was to talk and I actually had to sit in the back of about 1,000 seats or so but I had an aisle seat and could see him. So I'm a twenty-something part-time college kid working and discovering girls- what am I doing here?

I'm going to be brief here as I can't testify to the objective truth here (if you ask me for the details, I'll give them to you, but you'll be as confused as I was) but within ten, twenty minutes people in the crowd started to stand up and YELL at this poor, soft spoken man who was just telling a part of his life story that he was a liar, condemned to hell, etc.! (After the fact, I seem to recognize many people knew who he was/is and were there to dispute/disrupt whatever he was saying.

Short cut to two months later- I have now realized there is something after our physical life, and I am seriously considering suicide (but not in a depressed state) but because I KNOW there is life after physical death (per my awakening) and (for my thinking) it HAS to be better than this!

Richard Rose is now back for a talk, but in a half-lit small auditorium, and he just says "ask me questions" , so the students do. The questions are sort of attacking, and quite combative (for whatever reason- remember it was the philosophical club that sponsored him) and then I asked my question that was sort of paraphrased but his response is not: "Since you know there is a better after-life, why don't you kill yourself to get there?" And believe me, this was asked in all seriousness. I heard his response in my head/mind immediately, "We're all going to die eventually, so why not make the best of this life?"

Before I could process/answer, he repeated that exact quote verbally....

Since then I've been trying to find out what I need this lifetime...
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/6/2014 8:48:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/6/2014 8:31:08 PM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 11/6/2014 6:35:20 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 11/6/2014 6:15:43 PM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 11/5/2014 10:26:30 PM, Idealist wrote:
Google describes "transcendent" as "beyond or above the range of normal or merely physical human experience." Out of great curiosity, I was wondering if anyone on here has experienced such a phenomenon in their lifetimes. There is no need to expand on the experience if you fear it might bring you mockery, but it's a subject I've been very interested in. Thanks. :)

I've had a few myself. When I was a kid around ages 5-9, when I would get sick, my spirit (or myself without the body) would float up to the ceiling. Up there I had the visual perspective as if my body eyeballs were there. I would think it was awesome then try to look down at my body and I'd pop right back in it. And just to clarify if anyone cares, it was a completely different experience than feeling "high" while on pot.

The second experience, and a much more powerful one, was when I used to pray nightly in my 20s for any signs that there was an afterlife, heaven, God, etc. One day I woke up and had an instantaneous vision/feeling that all of us were made of pure love and that all existence was really pure joy (despite what earthly pains we may feel). I cried for a few hours as it was literally life changing (for the better) and beyond my normal perceptions.

I have two more kinda neato related experiences if anyone wants to hear- just reply to this and I'll share...

I would be interested in hearing them. You can send me a PM if it's something you'd rather not post in public. I'm very interested in the kind of experiences which are hard to explain by naturalism alone.

I'm basically a compu-tard, so I'll just write here. After my "awakening" I had more desire to try to get to this "loving place" which I thought was outside of me (as my life was not all love, duh). Within a few weeks I was walking down the street to my college class when I paused after passing a wooden (they were basically all wooden at this time and every pole was plastered with fliers) phone pole that had numerous fliers stapled to it. For whatever reason, I paused, turned back, and walked to that pole and saw a flier for a Richard Rose conference. Richard Rose is dead now, and I had no idea at that time who or what he was. The talk was sponsored by the the local college's philosophical society and I thought it would be interesting to attend.

I arrived at the conference room about 20 minutes before Rose was to talk and I actually had to sit in the back of about 1,000 seats or so but I had an aisle seat and could see him. So I'm a twenty-something part-time college kid working and discovering girls- what am I doing here?

I'm going to be brief here as I can't testify to the objective truth here (if you ask me for the details, I'll give them to you, but you'll be as confused as I was) but within ten, twenty minutes people in the crowd started to stand up and YELL at this poor, soft spoken man who was just telling a part of his life story that he was a liar, condemned to hell, etc.! (After the fact, I seem to recognize many people knew who he was/is and were there to dispute/disrupt whatever he was saying.

Short cut to two months later- I have now realized there is something after our physical life, and I am seriously considering suicide (but not in a depressed state) but because I KNOW there is life after physical death (per my awakening) and (for my thinking) it HAS to be better than this!

Richard Rose is now back for a talk, but in a half-lit small auditorium, and he just says "ask me questions" , so the students do. The questions are sort of attacking, and quite combative (for whatever reason- remember it was the philosophical club that sponsored him) and then I asked my question that was sort of paraphrased but his response is not: "Since you know there is a better after-life, why don't you kill yourself to get there?" And believe me, this was asked in all seriousness. I heard his response in my head/mind immediately, "We're all going to die eventually, so why not make the best of this life?"

Before I could process/answer, he repeated that exact quote verbally....

Since then I've been trying to find out what I need this lifetime...

Wow. It's very interesting that for most of my life when people ask me what I think of suicide I say the exact same thing that you just wrote, lol. And when you think about it, if Richard Rose had just killed himself instead of making speeches then you would never have met him, right? So that's a second reason to stay alive in this world.
Smikes
Posts: 11
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/12/2014 2:30:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I have had a few, and if you'll honestly just hear me out, then I'd like to share my most personally transformative one. Allow me to preface this, however, by saying that I didn't believe in anything supernatural prior to this experience, and I still don't believe in anything supernatural now, either. We have to be intellectually honest about the contents of these experiences and about the kinds of claims we can justifiably infer from them.

I believe the most important experience I will ever have in my life was the third time I took LSD. I'd previously only taken doses of 1 tab at a time, and after having some extraordinarily pleasant experiences listening to music and exploring nature, I thought I understood what psychedelic enthusiasts like Terrence McKenna meant when they spoke of having "spiritual experiences" while on these drugs. But just to be sure, I decided to consume the remainder of my batch all at once; I consumed 4 tabs simultaneously. In my experience, the dosage per tab varies considerably across batches, so I honestly have no idea how much LSD I actually consumed - but only that I've tried other batches that were significantly weaker.

What first shocked me was the intensity of the hallucinations. Have you ever seen artistic interpretations of Native American "vision quests?" In terms of the sensory component of my experience, it was just like that but times a million, times a million, times a million, inverted into infinite paradox. I'm pretty sure this is how it would have looked if Jesus had transfigured in front of his disciples or if Krishna had revealed his Universal Form to Prince Arjuna haha! It had an unmistakably quasi-religious tone to it as well, even though I wasn't religious (whole-heartedly critical of religion, in fact). It was also quite terrifying during the come-up.

The sensory component isn't the part that changed my life, though. The cognitive, mind-altering component was the real game-changer. I always thought a "spiritual" experience was just an overwhelmingly emotional experience. And although this was intensely emotional, the emotional part wasn't the important part. Rather, this act of consuming 4 tabs of acid turned out to be pretty analogous to a science experiment, and essentially, I was just collecting more data about the nature of conscious experience itself. Every moment of life is an experiment like that, but this experiment was unique because it was the one that irrevocably destroyed the scientific paradigm. In the same way that the double-slit experiment fundamentally shifted physics from the Newtonian paradigm to the quantum paradigm, this experiment fundamentally - in a very rational, straightforward way - changed my most fundamental assumptions about what it's like to be me.

Have you ever been reading a book when, after mindlessly skimming the pages for a few minutes, you "come to" and realize that you weren't reading at all - you were just daydreaming while your eyes scanned the words? It seems to me that, while reading a book, this "coming to" shift in experience is of a fundamentally different sort than the shift involved in getting drunk, getting high, entering states of deep hypnotic trance, or any of these change-oriented shifts. There was certainly a change-oriented component to my experience with LSD, but the crucial, mind-blowing component was this "coming to" component. We all take it for granted that I am me, and I'm in my head, thinking thoughts, receiving sensory input, etc. But what I experienced didn't seem to align with that view at all. It altered my conscious experience in ways that - according to my internal theoretical model of how the world is (we all have a model like this) - literally should not be possible. More importantly, however, it helped me to "come to" and notice fundamental principles that were intrinsic to consciousness itself - and had been immediately obvious in my conscious experience since the day I was born. It's hard to put my finger on anything specific, but all I can say is that the acid trip was clearly violating basic assumptions about sensory impressions, thoughts, how I feel towards other people, my sense of self, free will, and super, duper, duper, fundamental, ineffable, nonconceptual assumptions about subjective experience.

If the Buddha was a real historical person, then I'm fairly certain that I know how it must have felt to come out from under the Bodhi Tree after those long nights of meditating before reaching enlightenment. That's exactly how I felt while coming out of this trip. It was totally cosmic, like something straight out of a religion. It wasn't enlightenment, of course, but I think that general range of experiences definitely captures the essence of what I experienced -- something that offered a lasting, life-changing insight.

I should also mention that although I'm currently very stooped into Eastern contemplative philosophy, I had no such interest at the time. I think I was aware of the fact that Buddhists didn't believe in the self, but I only had the murkiest sense of what that might mean. In any case, I wasn't going into this experience trying to be a mystic or anything like that; this just spontaneously happened. And although I did have an experience that might be celebrated in certain contemplative traditions, it definitely was NOT anything that obviously, directly related to any particular school of thought.

The experiential insight itself was entirely nonconceptual. I didn't discover anything by thinking more clearly. Some of the "insight" admits of reduction to conceptual description, but much of it does not. Much of it just leaves me with the sense that whatever is true about our place in this world, the truth is much spookier and trippier than normal waking consciousness would suggest haha! But I don't think anything metaphysical can be deduced on the basis of my experience. Like I said, there were more concrete insights as well, but I'd prefer not to get into a philosophical discussion - it's nothing new to philosophers anyhow. But even if it wasn't new philosophy, it was - for me - a radical shift in my worldview that I don't think would've been possible otherwise.

Sorry for the long-winded response. I hope I didn't sound too self-obsessed haha! Thank you for giving me the chance to collect my thoughts and to reflect on this :)