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The Bible. Sex=Marriage

jodybirdy
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11/13/2014 12:28:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I've been thinking this. In the old testament to get married they simply entered a tent and consummated. That's basically how Jacob was tricked after busting his hump for 7 years in the service of his uncle into marrying his unattractive cousin, Leah.

With that being said. Do Christians believe that sex is technically marriage? Please confirm this.

Also, what does the bible say about divorce? Does being divorced really make a woman an adulterer? And what if she wasn't a virgin when she got married in the first place? Does that mean she was already married and thus no divorce is needed?

I'm seriously confused by this. Any clarification will help me in a debate I'm currently having with my sister.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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11/13/2014 12:39:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/13/2014 12:28:31 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
I've been thinking this. In the old testament to get married they simply entered a tent and consummated. That's basically how Jacob was tricked after busting his hump for 7 years in the service of his uncle into marrying his unattractive cousin, Leah.

With that being said. Do Christians believe that sex is technically marriage? Please confirm this.

Also, what does the bible say about divorce? Does being divorced really make a woman an adulterer? And what if she wasn't a virgin when she got married in the first place? Does that mean she was already married and thus no divorce is needed?

I'm seriously confused by this. Any clarification will help me in a debate I'm currently having with my sister.

Sex does not equal marriage. Marriage is consummated by sex.

Sex is an action.

Marriage is a contract between 2 people that is endorsed, respected, protected, etc... by the community of those 2 people.

Pretty much the same way it is now. Just now marriage is a contract between 2 people and the state, so marriage by licenses is a 3 way arrangement.

Marriage that we get licenses for today started because a slave owner wanted to marry a slave, and the slave-owner fought in court for the "right" to marry who he pleased. The state never said this was a right everyone had. They issued a license granting him the right to marry her.

Think about that... the state is now issuing a license so you can be given the right to marry who you want. In my book that's messed up.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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11/13/2014 12:46:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/13/2014 12:39:30 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/13/2014 12:28:31 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
I've been thinking this. In the old testament to get married they simply entered a tent and consummated. That's basically how Jacob was tricked after busting his hump for 7 years in the service of his uncle into marrying his unattractive cousin, Leah.

With that being said. Do Christians believe that sex is technically marriage? Please confirm this.

Also, what does the bible say about divorce? Does being divorced really make a woman an adulterer? And what if she wasn't a virgin when she got married in the first place? Does that mean she was already married and thus no divorce is needed?

I'm seriously confused by this. Any clarification will help me in a debate I'm currently having with my sister.

Sex does not equal marriage. Marriage is consummated by sex.

Sex is an action.

Marriage is a contract between 2 people that is endorsed, respected, protected, etc... by the community of those 2 people.

Pretty much the same way it is now. Just now marriage is a contract between 2 people and the state, so marriage by licenses is a 3 way arrangement.

Marriage that we get licenses for today started because a slave owner wanted to marry a slave, and the slave-owner fought in court for the "right" to marry who he pleased. The state never said this was a right everyone had. They issued a license granting him the right to marry her.

Think about that... the state is now issuing a license so you can be given the right to marry who you want. In my book that's messed up.

because it puts government in charge of who a person marries instead of God.
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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11/13/2014 12:48:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/13/2014 12:39:30 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/13/2014 12:28:31 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
I've been thinking this. In the old testament to get married they simply entered a tent and consummated. That's basically how Jacob was tricked after busting his hump for 7 years in the service of his uncle into marrying his unattractive cousin, Leah.

With that being said. Do Christians believe that sex is technically marriage? Please confirm this.

Also, what does the bible say about divorce? Does being divorced really make a woman an adulterer? And what if she wasn't a virgin when she got married in the first place? Does that mean she was already married and thus no divorce is needed?

I'm seriously confused by this. Any clarification will help me in a debate I'm currently having with my sister.

Sex does not equal marriage. Marriage is consummated by sex.

Sex is an action.

Marriage is a contract between 2 people that is endorsed, respected, protected, etc... by the community of those 2 people.

Pretty much the same way it is now. Just now marriage is a contract between 2 people and the state, so marriage by licenses is a 3 way arrangement.

Marriage that we get licenses for today started because a slave owner wanted to marry a slave, and the slave-owner fought in court for the "right" to marry who he pleased. The state never said this was a right everyone had. They issued a license granting him the right to marry her.

Think about that... the state is now issuing a license so you can be given the right to marry who you want. In my book that's messed up.

Then how was it Jacob could be tricked into marrying Leah? Also do you know what it says about divorce?

Yeah, the state thing is sort of messed up. In some states you even have to have a blood test. Strange.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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11/13/2014 1:00:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/13/2014 12:46:29 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/13/2014 12:39:30 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/13/2014 12:28:31 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
I've been thinking this. In the old testament to get married they simply entered a tent and consummated. That's basically how Jacob was tricked after busting his hump for 7 years in the service of his uncle into marrying his unattractive cousin, Leah.

With that being said. Do Christians believe that sex is technically marriage? Please confirm this.

Also, what does the bible say about divorce? Does being divorced really make a woman an adulterer? And what if she wasn't a virgin when she got married in the first place? Does that mean she was already married and thus no divorce is needed?

I'm seriously confused by this. Any clarification will help me in a debate I'm currently having with my sister.

Sex does not equal marriage. Marriage is consummated by sex.

Sex is an action.

Marriage is a contract between 2 people that is endorsed, respected, protected, etc... by the community of those 2 people.

Pretty much the same way it is now. Just now marriage is a contract between 2 people and the state, so marriage by licenses is a 3 way arrangement.

Marriage that we get licenses for today started because a slave owner wanted to marry a slave, and the slave-owner fought in court for the "right" to marry who he pleased. The state never said this was a right everyone had. They issued a license granting him the right to marry her.

Think about that... the state is now issuing a license so you can be given the right to marry who you want. In my book that's messed up.

because it puts government in charge of who a person marries instead of God.

The problem with God being in charge is that there are different religions. How would that work? And taxes and insurance. And kids. It has to be legal.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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11/13/2014 2:01:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/13/2014 12:46:29 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/13/2014 12:39:30 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/13/2014 12:28:31 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
I've been thinking this. In the old testament to get married they simply entered a tent and consummated. That's basically how Jacob was tricked after busting his hump for 7 years in the service of his uncle into marrying his unattractive cousin, Leah.

With that being said. Do Christians believe that sex is technically marriage? Please confirm this.

Also, what does the bible say about divorce? Does being divorced really make a woman an adulterer? And what if she wasn't a virgin when she got married in the first place? Does that mean she was already married and thus no divorce is needed?

I'm seriously confused by this. Any clarification will help me in a debate I'm currently having with my sister.

Sex does not equal marriage. Marriage is consummated by sex.

Sex is an action.

Marriage is a contract between 2 people that is endorsed, respected, protected, etc... by the community of those 2 people.

Pretty much the same way it is now. Just now marriage is a contract between 2 people and the state, so marriage by licenses is a 3 way arrangement.

Marriage that we get licenses for today started because a slave owner wanted to marry a slave, and the slave-owner fought in court for the "right" to marry who he pleased. The state never said this was a right everyone had. They issued a license granting him the right to marry her.

Think about that... the state is now issuing a license so you can be given the right to marry who you want. In my book that's messed up.

because it puts government in charge of who a person marries instead of God.

If God actually has any input on who people marry, his match-making skills are no better than those of atheists who choose for themselves. The divorce rates are very similar.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Juan_Pablo
Posts: 2,052
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11/13/2014 2:12:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Marriage is a social contract made between two people and the community they live in. As another member recently posted, it's a three-party contract.

I do not equate sex with marriage, though I do believe marriage is the safest kind of relationship in which two people can have sex and still have legal protections and assurances. Outside of marriage, sex and commitments don't have any social contractual backing, so these mean very little and carry very little weight in the larger world.
Juan_Pablo
Posts: 2,052
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11/13/2014 2:29:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Correction:

"Outside of marriage, sex and commitments don't have any social contractual backing, so these mean very little and carry very little weight in the larger legal world."
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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11/13/2014 2:33:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/13/2014 2:01:59 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 11/13/2014 12:46:29 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/13/2014 12:39:30 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/13/2014 12:28:31 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
I've been thinking this. In the old testament to get married they simply entered a tent and consummated. That's basically how Jacob was tricked after busting his hump for 7 years in the service of his uncle into marrying his unattractive cousin, Leah.

With that being said. Do Christians believe that sex is technically marriage? Please confirm this.

Also, what does the bible say about divorce? Does being divorced really make a woman an adulterer? And what if she wasn't a virgin when she got married in the first place? Does that mean she was already married and thus no divorce is needed?

I'm seriously confused by this. Any clarification will help me in a debate I'm currently having with my sister.

Sex does not equal marriage. Marriage is consummated by sex.

Sex is an action.

Marriage is a contract between 2 people that is endorsed, respected, protected, etc... by the community of those 2 people.

Pretty much the same way it is now. Just now marriage is a contract between 2 people and the state, so marriage by licenses is a 3 way arrangement.

Marriage that we get licenses for today started because a slave owner wanted to marry a slave, and the slave-owner fought in court for the "right" to marry who he pleased. The state never said this was a right everyone had. They issued a license granting him the right to marry her.

Think about that... the state is now issuing a license so you can be given the right to marry who you want. In my book that's messed up.

because it puts government in charge of who a person marries instead of God.

If God actually has any input on who people marry, his match-making skills are no better than those of atheists who choose for themselves. The divorce rates are very similar.

Devils advocate here: It clearly states in the Bible that divorce is not alright unless the reason for divorce is adultery. If a man divorces his wife he causes her to commit adultery. And any man that is with a divorced woman will be committing adultery. It's definitely in the man's favor. So I ask you, how can a Christian woman justify re-marrying after she is divorced? Does she have to spend her life alone? Is there not a catch 22 someplace? And deconversion is not an option.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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11/13/2014 2:38:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/13/2014 2:33:26 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/13/2014 2:01:59 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 11/13/2014 12:46:29 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/13/2014 12:39:30 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/13/2014 12:28:31 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
I've been thinking this. In the old testament to get married they simply entered a tent and consummated. That's basically how Jacob was tricked after busting his hump for 7 years in the service of his uncle into marrying his unattractive cousin, Leah.

With that being said. Do Christians believe that sex is technically marriage? Please confirm this.

Also, what does the bible say about divorce? Does being divorced really make a woman an adulterer? And what if she wasn't a virgin when she got married in the first place? Does that mean she was already married and thus no divorce is needed?

I'm seriously confused by this. Any clarification will help me in a debate I'm currently having with my sister.

Sex does not equal marriage. Marriage is consummated by sex.

Sex is an action.

Marriage is a contract between 2 people that is endorsed, respected, protected, etc... by the community of those 2 people.

Pretty much the same way it is now. Just now marriage is a contract between 2 people and the state, so marriage by licenses is a 3 way arrangement.

Marriage that we get licenses for today started because a slave owner wanted to marry a slave, and the slave-owner fought in court for the "right" to marry who he pleased. The state never said this was a right everyone had. They issued a license granting him the right to marry her.

Think about that... the state is now issuing a license so you can be given the right to marry who you want. In my book that's messed up.

because it puts government in charge of who a person marries instead of God.

If God actually has any input on who people marry, his match-making skills are no better than those of atheists who choose for themselves. The divorce rates are very similar.

Devils advocate here: It clearly states in the Bible that divorce is not alright unless the reason for divorce is adultery. If a man divorces his wife he causes her to commit adultery. And any man that is with a divorced woman will be committing adultery. It's definitely in the man's favor. So I ask you, how can a Christian woman justify re-marrying after she is divorced? Does she have to spend her life alone? Is there not a catch 22 someplace? And deconversion is not an option.

To me these rules reflect one of two things. It's either the rules of people who lack the maturity to accept sex for what it is, and attempt to gain authority for their view by claiming that it's God's rules; or it's a God who can't handle sex in a mature manner. I think the first is the more plausible of the two.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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11/13/2014 2:46:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/13/2014 2:38:20 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 11/13/2014 2:33:26 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/13/2014 2:01:59 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 11/13/2014 12:46:29 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/13/2014 12:39:30 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/13/2014 12:28:31 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
I've been thinking this. In the old testament to get married they simply entered a tent and consummated. That's basically how Jacob was tricked after busting his hump for 7 years in the service of his uncle into marrying his unattractive cousin, Leah.

With that being said. Do Christians believe that sex is technically marriage? Please confirm this.

Also, what does the bible say about divorce? Does being divorced really make a woman an adulterer? And what if she wasn't a virgin when she got married in the first place? Does that mean she was already married and thus no divorce is needed?

I'm seriously confused by this. Any clarification will help me in a debate I'm currently having with my sister.

Sex does not equal marriage. Marriage is consummated by sex.

Sex is an action.

Marriage is a contract between 2 people that is endorsed, respected, protected, etc... by the community of those 2 people.

Pretty much the same way it is now. Just now marriage is a contract between 2 people and the state, so marriage by licenses is a 3 way arrangement.

Marriage that we get licenses for today started because a slave owner wanted to marry a slave, and the slave-owner fought in court for the "right" to marry who he pleased. The state never said this was a right everyone had. They issued a license granting him the right to marry her.

Think about that... the state is now issuing a license so you can be given the right to marry who you want. In my book that's messed up.

because it puts government in charge of who a person marries instead of God.

If God actually has any input on who people marry, his match-making skills are no better than those of atheists who choose for themselves. The divorce rates are very similar.

Devils advocate here: It clearly states in the Bible that divorce is not alright unless the reason for divorce is adultery. If a man divorces his wife he causes her to commit adultery. And any man that is with a divorced woman will be committing adultery. It's definitely in the man's favor. So I ask you, how can a Christian woman justify re-marrying after she is divorced? Does she have to spend her life alone? Is there not a catch 22 someplace? And deconversion is not an option.

To me these rules reflect one of two things. It's either the rules of people who lack the maturity to accept sex for what it is, and attempt to gain authority for their view by claiming that it's God's rules; or it's a God who can't handle sex in a mature manner. I think the first is the more plausible of the two.

That's not a good argument. The Bible is the word of God. It is the epitome of divine truth. The Bible says that adultery is a sin. And furthermore that even to look at someone with lust that you have the heart of an adulterer. So, do we commit adultery no matter what? Is there no way to justify it? We're all adulterers already so it should be okay to divorce. Right? Or am I missing something? The Bible is illogical.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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11/13/2014 3:04:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/13/2014 2:46:32 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/13/2014 2:38:20 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 11/13/2014 2:33:26 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/13/2014 2:01:59 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 11/13/2014 12:46:29 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/13/2014 12:39:30 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/13/2014 12:28:31 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
I've been thinking this. In the old testament to get married they simply entered a tent and consummated. That's basically how Jacob was tricked after busting his hump for 7 years in the service of his uncle into marrying his unattractive cousin, Leah.

With that being said. Do Christians believe that sex is technically marriage? Please confirm this.

Also, what does the bible say about divorce? Does being divorced really make a woman an adulterer? And what if she wasn't a virgin when she got married in the first place? Does that mean she was already married and thus no divorce is needed?

I'm seriously confused by this. Any clarification will help me in a debate I'm currently having with my sister.

Sex does not equal marriage. Marriage is consummated by sex.

Sex is an action.

Marriage is a contract between 2 people that is endorsed, respected, protected, etc... by the community of those 2 people.

Pretty much the same way it is now. Just now marriage is a contract between 2 people and the state, so marriage by licenses is a 3 way arrangement.

Marriage that we get licenses for today started because a slave owner wanted to marry a slave, and the slave-owner fought in court for the "right" to marry who he pleased. The state never said this was a right everyone had. They issued a license granting him the right to marry her.

Think about that... the state is now issuing a license so you can be given the right to marry who you want. In my book that's messed up.

because it puts government in charge of who a person marries instead of God.

If God actually has any input on who people marry, his match-making skills are no better than those of atheists who choose for themselves. The divorce rates are very similar.

Devils advocate here: It clearly states in the Bible that divorce is not alright unless the reason for divorce is adultery. If a man divorces his wife he causes her to commit adultery. And any man that is with a divorced woman will be committing adultery. It's definitely in the man's favor. So I ask you, how can a Christian woman justify re-marrying after she is divorced? Does she have to spend her life alone? Is there not a catch 22 someplace? And deconversion is not an option.

To me these rules reflect one of two things. It's either the rules of people who lack the maturity to accept sex for what it is, and attempt to gain authority for their view by claiming that it's God's rules; or it's a God who can't handle sex in a mature manner. I think the first is the more plausible of the two.

That's not a good argument. The Bible is the word of God. It is the epitome of divine truth. The Bible says that adultery is a sin. And furthermore that even to look at someone with lust that you have the heart of an adulterer. So, do we commit adultery no matter what? Is there no way to justify it? We're all adulterers already so it should be okay to divorce. Right? Or am I missing something? The Bible is illogical.

Well, if it's a sin to look at someone with lust, then I'm an adulterer and I don't apologize for that. If we didn't feel an attraction unless we were married, there might be some argument that marriage is a contract between two people and God. But since it's an evolutionary adaptation and humans have "adapted" to a much greater degree than most other animals, I'm going to stick with not worrying about sinning for feeling how I feel. As long as it's not acted upon with any malevolent intent and with respect for the possibility of reproduction, I don't see it as wrong. From what I've seen, I'm far more responsible about the potential resulting activities than most of the religious people I know. To me, sex is an emotional response, not a religious one.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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11/13/2014 3:14:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/13/2014 3:04:57 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 11/13/2014 2:46:32 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/13/2014 2:38:20 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 11/13/2014 2:33:26 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/13/2014 2:01:59 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 11/13/2014 12:46:29 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/13/2014 12:39:30 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/13/2014 12:28:31 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
I've been thinking this. In the old testament to get married they simply entered a tent and consummated. That's basically how Jacob was tricked after busting his hump for 7 years in the service of his uncle into marrying his unattractive cousin, Leah.

With that being said. Do Christians believe that sex is technically marriage? Please confirm this.

Also, what does the bible say about divorce? Does being divorced really make a woman an adulterer? And what if she wasn't a virgin when she got married in the first place? Does that mean she was already married and thus no divorce is needed?

I'm seriously confused by this. Any clarification will help me in a debate I'm currently having with my sister.

Sex does not equal marriage. Marriage is consummated by sex.

Sex is an action.

Marriage is a contract between 2 people that is endorsed, respected, protected, etc... by the community of those 2 people.

Pretty much the same way it is now. Just now marriage is a contract between 2 people and the state, so marriage by licenses is a 3 way arrangement.

Marriage that we get licenses for today started because a slave owner wanted to marry a slave, and the slave-owner fought in court for the "right" to marry who he pleased. The state never said this was a right everyone had. They issued a license granting him the right to marry her.

Think about that... the state is now issuing a license so you can be given the right to marry who you want. In my book that's messed up.

because it puts government in charge of who a person marries instead of God.

If God actually has any input on who people marry, his match-making skills are no better than those of atheists who choose for themselves. The divorce rates are very similar.

Devils advocate here: It clearly states in the Bible that divorce is not alright unless the reason for divorce is adultery. If a man divorces his wife he causes her to commit adultery. And any man that is with a divorced woman will be committing adultery. It's definitely in the man's favor. So I ask you, how can a Christian woman justify re-marrying after she is divorced? Does she have to spend her life alone? Is there not a catch 22 someplace? And deconversion is not an option.

To me these rules reflect one of two things. It's either the rules of people who lack the maturity to accept sex for what it is, and attempt to gain authority for their view by claiming that it's God's rules; or it's a God who can't handle sex in a mature manner. I think the first is the more plausible of the two.

That's not a good argument. The Bible is the word of God. It is the epitome of divine truth. The Bible says that adultery is a sin. And furthermore that even to look at someone with lust that you have the heart of an adulterer. So, do we commit adultery no matter what? Is there no way to justify it? We're all adulterers already so it should be okay to divorce. Right? Or am I missing something? The Bible is illogical.

Well, if it's a sin to look at someone with lust, then I'm an adulterer and I don't apologize for that. If we didn't feel an attraction unless we were married, there might be some argument that marriage is a contract between two people and God. But since it's an evolutionary adaptation and humans have "adapted" to a much greater degree than most other animals, I'm going to stick with not worrying about sinning for feeling how I feel. As long as it's not acted upon with any malevolent intent and with respect for the possibility of reproduction, I don't see it as wrong. From what I've seen, I'm far more responsible about the potential resulting activities than most of the religious people I know. To me, sex is an emotional response, not a religious one.

Yes. You are completely right. And the Bible is a contradiction of itself. How do people even use the information it contains as evidence in a discussion. What level of delusion and insanity does it take? I'm amazed.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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11/13/2014 3:14:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/13/2014 2:46:32 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/13/2014 2:38:20 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 11/13/2014 2:33:26 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/13/2014 2:01:59 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 11/13/2014 12:46:29 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/13/2014 12:39:30 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/13/2014 12:28:31 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
I've been thinking this. In the old testament to get married they simply entered a tent and consummated. That's basically how Jacob was tricked after busting his hump for 7 years in the service of his uncle into marrying his unattractive cousin, Leah.

With that being said. Do Christians believe that sex is technically marriage? Please confirm this.

Also, what does the bible say about divorce? Does being divorced really make a woman an adulterer? And what if she wasn't a virgin when she got married in the first place? Does that mean she was already married and thus no divorce is needed?

I'm seriously confused by this. Any clarification will help me in a debate I'm currently having with my sister.

Sex does not equal marriage. Marriage is consummated by sex.

Sex is an action.

Marriage is a contract between 2 people that is endorsed, respected, protected, etc... by the community of those 2 people.

Pretty much the same way it is now. Just now marriage is a contract between 2 people and the state, so marriage by licenses is a 3 way arrangement.

Marriage that we get licenses for today started because a slave owner wanted to marry a slave, and the slave-owner fought in court for the "right" to marry who he pleased. The state never said this was a right everyone had. They issued a license granting him the right to marry her.

Think about that... the state is now issuing a license so you can be given the right to marry who you want. In my book that's messed up.

because it puts government in charge of who a person marries instead of God.

If God actually has any input on who people marry, his match-making skills are no better than those of atheists who choose for themselves. The divorce rates are very similar.

Devils advocate here: It clearly states in the Bible that divorce is not alright unless the reason for divorce is adultery. If a man divorces his wife he causes her to commit adultery. And any man that is with a divorced woman will be committing adultery. It's definitely in the man's favor. So I ask you, how can a Christian woman justify re-marrying after she is divorced? Does she have to spend her life alone? Is there not a catch 22 someplace? And deconversion is not an option.

To me these rules reflect one of two things. It's either the rules of people who lack the maturity to accept sex for what it is, and attempt to gain authority for their view by claiming that it's God's rules; or it's a God who can't handle sex in a mature manner. I think the first is the more plausible of the two.

That's not a good argument. The Bible is the word of God. It is the epitome of divine truth. The Bible says that adultery is a sin. And furthermore that even to look at someone with lust that you have the heart of an adulterer. So, do we commit adultery no matter what? Is there no way to justify it? We're all adulterers already so it should be okay to divorce. Right? Or am I missing something?

The Bible is illogical.

Winner winner chicken dinner. I think you should have started from this premise. ;)
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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11/13/2014 3:16:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/13/2014 3:14:04 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 11/13/2014 2:46:32 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/13/2014 2:38:20 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 11/13/2014 2:33:26 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/13/2014 2:01:59 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 11/13/2014 12:46:29 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/13/2014 12:39:30 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/13/2014 12:28:31 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
I've been thinking this. In the old testament to get married they simply entered a tent and consummated. That's basically how Jacob was tricked after busting his hump for 7 years in the service of his uncle into marrying his unattractive cousin, Leah.

With that being said. Do Christians believe that sex is technically marriage? Please confirm this.

Also, what does the bible say about divorce? Does being divorced really make a woman an adulterer? And what if she wasn't a virgin when she got married in the first place? Does that mean she was already married and thus no divorce is needed?

I'm seriously confused by this. Any clarification will help me in a debate I'm currently having with my sister.

Sex does not equal marriage. Marriage is consummated by sex.

Sex is an action.

Marriage is a contract between 2 people that is endorsed, respected, protected, etc... by the community of those 2 people.

Pretty much the same way it is now. Just now marriage is a contract between 2 people and the state, so marriage by licenses is a 3 way arrangement.

Marriage that we get licenses for today started because a slave owner wanted to marry a slave, and the slave-owner fought in court for the "right" to marry who he pleased. The state never said this was a right everyone had. They issued a license granting him the right to marry her.

Think about that... the state is now issuing a license so you can be given the right to marry who you want. In my book that's messed up.

because it puts government in charge of who a person marries instead of God.

If God actually has any input on who people marry, his match-making skills are no better than those of atheists who choose for themselves. The divorce rates are very similar.

Devils advocate here: It clearly states in the Bible that divorce is not alright unless the reason for divorce is adultery. If a man divorces his wife he causes her to commit adultery. And any man that is with a divorced woman will be committing adultery. It's definitely in the man's favor. So I ask you, how can a Christian woman justify re-marrying after she is divorced? Does she have to spend her life alone? Is there not a catch 22 someplace? And deconversion is not an option.

To me these rules reflect one of two things. It's either the rules of people who lack the maturity to accept sex for what it is, and attempt to gain authority for their view by claiming that it's God's rules; or it's a God who can't handle sex in a mature manner. I think the first is the more plausible of the two.

That's not a good argument. The Bible is the word of God. It is the epitome of divine truth. The Bible says that adultery is a sin. And furthermore that even to look at someone with lust that you have the heart of an adulterer. So, do we commit adultery no matter what? Is there no way to justify it? We're all adulterers already so it should be okay to divorce. Right? Or am I missing something?



The Bible is illogical.

Winner winner chicken dinner. I think you should have started from this premise. ;)

It's an insane book. I have no idea how to convince an avid Christian that they aren't going to hell for being divorced. Do you have any ideas?
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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11/13/2014 3:22:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/13/2014 3:16:50 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/13/2014 3:14:04 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 11/13/2014 2:46:32 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/13/2014 2:38:20 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 11/13/2014 2:33:26 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/13/2014 2:01:59 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 11/13/2014 12:46:29 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/13/2014 12:39:30 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/13/2014 12:28:31 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
I've been thinking this. In the old testament to get married they simply entered a tent and consummated. That's basically how Jacob was tricked after busting his hump for 7 years in the service of his uncle into marrying his unattractive cousin, Leah.

With that being said. Do Christians believe that sex is technically marriage? Please confirm this.

Also, what does the bible say about divorce? Does being divorced really make a woman an adulterer? And what if she wasn't a virgin when she got married in the first place? Does that mean she was already married and thus no divorce is needed?

I'm seriously confused by this. Any clarification will help me in a debate I'm currently having with my sister.

Sex does not equal marriage. Marriage is consummated by sex.

Sex is an action.

Marriage is a contract between 2 people that is endorsed, respected, protected, etc... by the community of those 2 people.

Pretty much the same way it is now. Just now marriage is a contract between 2 people and the state, so marriage by licenses is a 3 way arrangement.

Marriage that we get licenses for today started because a slave owner wanted to marry a slave, and the slave-owner fought in court for the "right" to marry who he pleased. The state never said this was a right everyone had. They issued a license granting him the right to marry her.

Think about that... the state is now issuing a license so you can be given the right to marry who you want. In my book that's messed up.

because it puts government in charge of who a person marries instead of God.

If God actually has any input on who people marry, his match-making skills are no better than those of atheists who choose for themselves. The divorce rates are very similar.

Devils advocate here: It clearly states in the Bible that divorce is not alright unless the reason for divorce is adultery. If a man divorces his wife he causes her to commit adultery. And any man that is with a divorced woman will be committing adultery. It's definitely in the man's favor. So I ask you, how can a Christian woman justify re-marrying after she is divorced? Does she have to spend her life alone? Is there not a catch 22 someplace? And deconversion is not an option.

To me these rules reflect one of two things. It's either the rules of people who lack the maturity to accept sex for what it is, and attempt to gain authority for their view by claiming that it's God's rules; or it's a God who can't handle sex in a mature manner. I think the first is the more plausible of the two.

That's not a good argument. The Bible is the word of God. It is the epitome of divine truth. The Bible says that adultery is a sin. And furthermore that even to look at someone with lust that you have the heart of an adulterer. So, do we commit adultery no matter what? Is there no way to justify it? We're all adulterers already so it should be okay to divorce. Right? Or am I missing something?



The Bible is illogical.

Winner winner chicken dinner. I think you should have started from this premise. ;)

It's an insane book. I have no idea how to convince an avid Christian that they aren't going to hell for being divorced. Do you have any ideas?

Sadly, no. The concept of Hell to some one whom believes they should go there is a double-dog-dogma of self loathing. Speaking real general, though, how did she get divorced? I didn't think that was possible, unless he was just so adamant about walking away that he did so. In which case, she should still view herself as married, though the situation emotionally speaking doesn't get much better.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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11/13/2014 3:33:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/13/2014 3:22:33 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 11/13/2014 3:16:50 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/13/2014 3:14:04 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 11/13/2014 2:46:32 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/13/2014 2:38:20 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 11/13/2014 2:33:26 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/13/2014 2:01:59 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 11/13/2014 12:46:29 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/13/2014 12:39:30 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/13/2014 12:28:31 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
I've been thinking this. In the old testament to get married they simply entered a tent and consummated. That's basically how Jacob was tricked after busting his hump for 7 years in the service of his uncle into marrying his unattractive cousin, Leah.

With that being said. Do Christians believe that sex is technically marriage? Please confirm this.

Also, what does the bible say about divorce? Does being divorced really make a woman an adulterer? And what if she wasn't a virgin when she got married in the first place? Does that mean she was already married and thus no divorce is needed?

I'm seriously confused by this. Any clarification will help me in a debate I'm currently having with my sister.

Sex does not equal marriage. Marriage is consummated by sex.

Sex is an action.

Marriage is a contract between 2 people that is endorsed, respected, protected, etc... by the community of those 2 people.

Pretty much the same way it is now. Just now marriage is a contract between 2 people and the state, so marriage by licenses is a 3 way arrangement.

Marriage that we get licenses for today started because a slave owner wanted to marry a slave, and the slave-owner fought in court for the "right" to marry who he pleased. The state never said this was a right everyone had. They issued a license granting him the right to marry her.

Think about that... the state is now issuing a license so you can be given the right to marry who you want. In my book that's messed up.

because it puts government in charge of who a person marries instead of God.

If God actually has any input on who people marry, his match-making skills are no better than those of atheists who choose for themselves. The divorce rates are very similar.

Devils advocate here: It clearly states in the Bible that divorce is not alright unless the reason for divorce is adultery. If a man divorces his wife he causes her to commit adultery. And any man that is with a divorced woman will be committing adultery. It's definitely in the man's favor. So I ask you, how can a Christian woman justify re-marrying after she is divorced? Does she have to spend her life alone? Is there not a catch 22 someplace? And deconversion is not an option.

To me these rules reflect one of two things. It's either the rules of people who lack the maturity to accept sex for what it is, and attempt to gain authority for their view by claiming that it's God's rules; or it's a God who can't handle sex in a mature manner. I think the first is the more plausible of the two.

That's not a good argument. The Bible is the word of God. It is the epitome of divine truth. The Bible says that adultery is a sin. And furthermore that even to look at someone with lust that you have the heart of an adulterer. So, do we commit adultery no matter what? Is there no way to justify it? We're all adulterers already so it should be okay to divorce. Right? Or am I missing something?



The Bible is illogical.

Winner winner chicken dinner. I think you should have started from this premise. ;)

It's an insane book. I have no idea how to convince an avid Christian that they aren't going to hell for being divorced. Do you have any ideas?

Sadly, no. The concept of Hell to some one whom believes they should go there is a double-dog-dogma of self loathing. Speaking real general, though, how did she get divorced? I didn't think that was possible, unless he was just so adamant about walking away that he did so. In which case, she should still view herself as married, though the situation emotionally speaking doesn't get much better.

She's refusing to grant him a divorce for religious reasons.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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11/13/2014 3:47:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I've been thinking this. In the old testament to get married they simply entered a tent and consummated. That's basically how Jacob was tricked after busting his hump for 7 years in the service of his uncle into marrying his unattractive cousin, Leah.

With that being said. Do Christians believe that sex is technically marriage? Please confirm this.

Also, what does the bible say about divorce? Does being divorced really make a woman an adulterer? And what if she wasn't a virgin when she got married in the first place? Does that mean she was already married and thus no divorce is needed?

I'm seriously confused by this. Any clarification will help me in a debate I'm currently having with my sister.

Sex does not equal marriage. Marriage is consummated by sex.

Sex is an action.

Marriage is a contract between 2 people that is endorsed, respected, protected, etc... by the community of those 2 people.

Pretty much the same way it is now. Just now marriage is a contract between 2 people and the state, so marriage by licenses is a 3 way arrangement.

Marriage that we get licenses for today started because a slave owner wanted to marry a slave, and the slave-owner fought in court for the "right" to marry who he pleased. The state never said this was a right everyone had. They issued a license granting him the right to marry her.

Think about that... the state is now issuing a license so you can be given the right to marry who you want. In my book that's messed up.

because it puts government in charge of who a person marries instead of God.

If God actually has any input on who people marry, his match-making skills are no better than those of atheists who choose for themselves. The divorce rates are very similar.

Devils advocate here: It clearly states in the Bible that divorce is not alright unless the reason for divorce is adultery. If a man divorces his wife he causes her to commit adultery. And any man that is with a divorced woman will be committing adultery. It's definitely in the man's favor. So I ask you, how can a Christian woman justify re-marrying after she is divorced? Does she have to spend her life alone? Is there not a catch 22 someplace? And deconversion is not an option.

To me these rules reflect one of two things. It's either the rules of people who lack the maturity to accept sex for what it is, and attempt to gain authority for their view by claiming that it's God's rules; or it's a God who can't handle sex in a mature manner. I think the first is the more plausible of the two.

That's not a good argument. The Bible is the word of God. It is the epitome of divine truth. The Bible says that adultery is a sin. And furthermore that even to look at someone with lust that you have the heart of an adulterer. So, do we commit adultery no matter what? Is there no way to justify it? We're all adulterers already so it should be okay to divorce. Right? Or am I missing something?



The Bible is illogical.

Winner winner chicken dinner. I think you should have started from this premise. ;)

It's an insane book. I have no idea how to convince an avid Christian that they aren't going to hell for being divorced. Do you have any ideas?

Sadly, no. The concept of Hell to some one whom believes they should go there is a double-dog-dogma of self loathing. Speaking real general, though, how did she get divorced? I didn't think that was possible, unless he was just so adamant about walking away that he did so. In which case, she should still view herself as married, though the situation emotionally speaking doesn't get much better.

She's refusing to grant him a divorce for religious reasons.

Oh... well, then I think the safe bet would be that as long as she sticks to her guns, she shouldn't find herself in moral hazard. Granted, that life during all this is going to suck and probably need counseling NOT OF THE RELIGIOUS KIND, but its how she can keep the high ground she thinks she needs.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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11/13/2014 3:50:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/13/2014 3:47:01 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
I've been thinking this. In the old testament to get married they simply entered a tent and consummated. That's basically how Jacob was tricked after busting his hump for 7 years in the service of his uncle into marrying his unattractive cousin, Leah.

With that being said. Do Christians believe that sex is technically marriage? Please confirm this.

Also, what does the bible say about divorce? Does being divorced really make a woman an adulterer? And what if she wasn't a virgin when she got married in the first place? Does that mean she was already married and thus no divorce is needed?

I'm seriously confused by this. Any clarification will help me in a debate I'm currently having with my sister.

Sex does not equal marriage. Marriage is consummated by sex.

Sex is an action.

Marriage is a contract between 2 people that is endorsed, respected, protected, etc... by the community of those 2 people.

Pretty much the same way it is now. Just now marriage is a contract between 2 people and the state, so marriage by licenses is a 3 way arrangement.

Marriage that we get licenses for today started because a slave owner wanted to marry a slave, and the slave-owner fought in court for the "right" to marry who he pleased. The state never said this was a right everyone had. They issued a license granting him the right to marry her.

Think about that... the state is now issuing a license so you can be given the right to marry who you want. In my book that's messed up.

because it puts government in charge of who a person marries instead of God.

If God actually has any input on who people marry, his match-making skills are no better than those of atheists who choose for themselves. The divorce rates are very similar.

Devils advocate here: It clearly states in the Bible that divorce is not alright unless the reason for divorce is adultery. If a man divorces his wife he causes her to commit adultery. And any man that is with a divorced woman will be committing adultery. It's definitely in the man's favor. So I ask you, how can a Christian woman justify re-marrying after she is divorced? Does she have to spend her life alone? Is there not a catch 22 someplace? And deconversion is not an option.

To me these rules reflect one of two things. It's either the rules of people who lack the maturity to accept sex for what it is, and attempt to gain authority for their view by claiming that it's God's rules; or it's a God who can't handle sex in a mature manner. I think the first is the more plausible of the two.

That's not a good argument. The Bible is the word of God. It is the epitome of divine truth. The Bible says that adultery is a sin. And furthermore that even to look at someone with lust that you have the heart of an adulterer. So, do we commit adultery no matter what? Is there no way to justify it? We're all adulterers already so it should be okay to divorce. Right? Or am I missing something?



The Bible is illogical.

Winner winner chicken dinner. I think you should have started from this premise. ;)

It's an insane book. I have no idea how to convince an avid Christian that they aren't going to hell for being divorced. Do you have any ideas?

Sadly, no. The concept of Hell to some one whom believes they should go there is a double-dog-dogma of self loathing. Speaking real general, though, how did she get divorced? I didn't think that was possible, unless he was just so adamant about walking away that he did so. In which case, she should still view herself as married, though the situation emotionally speaking doesn't get much better.

She's refusing to grant him a divorce for religious reasons.

Oh... well, then I think the safe bet would be that as long as she sticks to her guns, she shouldn't find herself in moral hazard. Granted, that life during all this is going to suck and probably need counseling NOT OF THE RELIGIOUS KIND, but its how she can keep the high ground she thinks she needs.

Lol! Maybe that's exactly what I need to tell her. Brilliant really. Thank you.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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11/13/2014 3:57:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/13/2014 3:50:56 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/13/2014 3:47:01 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
I've been thinking this. In the old testament to get married they simply entered a tent and consummated. That's basically how Jacob was tricked after busting his hump for 7 years in the service of his uncle into marrying his unattractive cousin, Leah.

With that being said. Do Christians believe that sex is technically marriage? Please confirm this.

Also, what does the bible say about divorce? Does being divorced really make a woman an adulterer? And what if she wasn't a virgin when she got married in the first place? Does that mean she was already married and thus no divorce is needed?

I'm seriously confused by this. Any clarification will help me in a debate I'm currently having with my sister.

Sex does not equal marriage. Marriage is consummated by sex.

Sex is an action.

Marriage is a contract between 2 people that is endorsed, respected, protected, etc... by the community of those 2 people.

Pretty much the same way it is now. Just now marriage is a contract between 2 people and the state, so marriage by licenses is a 3 way arrangement.

Marriage that we get licenses for today started because a slave owner wanted to marry a slave, and the slave-owner fought in court for the "right" to marry who he pleased. The state never said this was a right everyone had. They issued a license granting him the right to marry her.

Think about that... the state is now issuing a license so you can be given the right to marry who you want. In my book that's messed up.

because it puts government in charge of who a person marries instead of God.

If God actually has any input on who people marry, his match-making skills are no better than those of atheists who choose for themselves. The divorce rates are very similar.

Devils advocate here: It clearly states in the Bible that divorce is not alright unless the reason for divorce is adultery. If a man divorces his wife he causes her to commit adultery. And any man that is with a divorced woman will be committing adultery. It's definitely in the man's favor. So I ask you, how can a Christian woman justify re-marrying after she is divorced? Does she have to spend her life alone? Is there not a catch 22 someplace? And deconversion is not an option.

To me these rules reflect one of two things. It's either the rules of people who lack the maturity to accept sex for what it is, and attempt to gain authority for their view by claiming that it's God's rules; or it's a God who can't handle sex in a mature manner. I think the first is the more plausible of the two.

That's not a good argument. The Bible is the word of God. It is the epitome of divine truth. The Bible says that adultery is a sin. And furthermore that even to look at someone with lust that you have the heart of an adulterer. So, do we commit adultery no matter what? Is there no way to justify it? We're all adulterers already so it should be okay to divorce. Right? Or am I missing something?



The Bible is illogical.

Winner winner chicken dinner. I think you should have started from this premise. ;)

It's an insane book. I have no idea how to convince an avid Christian that they aren't going to hell for being divorced. Do you have any ideas?

Sadly, no. The concept of Hell to some one whom believes they should go there is a double-dog-dogma of self loathing. Speaking real general, though, how did she get divorced? I didn't think that was possible, unless he was just so adamant about walking away that he did so. In which case, she should still view herself as married, though the situation emotionally speaking doesn't get much better.

She's refusing to grant him a divorce for religious reasons.

Oh... well, then I think the safe bet would be that as long as she sticks to her guns, she shouldn't find herself in moral hazard. Granted, that life during all this is going to suck and probably need counseling NOT OF THE RELIGIOUS KIND, but its how she can keep the high ground she thinks she needs.

Lol! Maybe that's exactly what I need to tell her. Brilliant really. Thank you.

I wish I could come up with something better, but an irrationaly situation doesn't usually have a good answer, know what I mean? In any case, good luck, because it sounds like you and her both might need it. She is gonna need a person wearing a lot of hats to see her through this.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,094
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11/13/2014 6:15:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/13/2014 3:50:56 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/13/2014 3:47:01 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
I've been thinking this. In the old testament to get married they simply entered a tent and consummated. That's basically how Jacob was tricked after busting his hump for 7 years in the service of his uncle into marrying his unattractive cousin, Leah.

With that being said. Do Christians believe that sex is technically marriage? Please confirm this.

Also, what does the bible say about divorce? Does being divorced really make a woman an adulterer? And what if she wasn't a virgin when she got married in the first place? Does that mean she was already married and thus no divorce is needed?

I'm seriously confused by this. Any clarification will help me in a debate I'm currently having with my sister.

Sex does not equal marriage. Marriage is consummated by sex.

Sex is an action.

Marriage is a contract between 2 people that is endorsed, respected, protected, etc... by the community of those 2 people.

Pretty much the same way it is now. Just now marriage is a contract between 2 people and the state, so marriage by licenses is a 3 way arrangement.

Marriage that we get licenses for today started because a slave owner wanted to marry a slave, and the slave-owner fought in court for the "right" to marry who he pleased. The state never said this was a right everyone had. They issued a license granting him the right to marry her.

Think about that... the state is now issuing a license so you can be given the right to marry who you want. In my book that's messed up.

because it puts government in charge of who a person marries instead of God.

If God actually has any input on who people marry, his match-making skills are no better than those of atheists who choose for themselves. The divorce rates are very similar.

Devils advocate here: It clearly states in the Bible that divorce is not alright unless the reason for divorce is adultery. If a man divorces his wife he causes her to commit adultery. And any man that is with a divorced woman will be committing adultery. It's definitely in the man's favor. So I ask you, how can a Christian woman justify re-marrying after she is divorced? Does she have to spend her life alone? Is there not a catch 22 someplace? And deconversion is not an option.

To me these rules reflect one of two things. It's either the rules of people who lack the maturity to accept sex for what it is, and attempt to gain authority for their view by claiming that it's God's rules; or it's a God who can't handle sex in a mature manner. I think the first is the more plausible of the two.

That's not a good argument. The Bible is the word of God. It is the epitome of divine truth. The Bible says that adultery is a sin. And furthermore that even to look at someone with lust that you have the heart of an adulterer. So, do we commit adultery no matter what? Is there no way to justify it? We're all adulterers already so it should be okay to divorce. Right? Or am I missing something?



The Bible is illogical.

Winner winner chicken dinner. I think you should have started from this premise. ;)

It's an insane book. I have no idea how to convince an avid Christian that they aren't going to hell for being divorced. Do you have any ideas?

Sadly, no. The concept of Hell to some one whom believes they should go there is a double-dog-dogma of self loathing. Speaking real general, though, how did she get divorced? I didn't think that was possible, unless he was just so adamant about walking away that he did so. In which case, she should still view herself as married, though the situation emotionally speaking doesn't get much better.

She's refusing to grant him a divorce for religious reasons.

Oh... well, then I think the safe bet would be that as long as she sticks to her guns, she shouldn't find herself in moral hazard. Granted, that life during all this is going to suck and probably need counseling NOT OF THE RELIGIOUS KIND, but its how she can keep the high ground she thinks she needs.

Lol! Maybe that's exactly what I need to tell her. Brilliant really. Thank you.

You could always tell her once he gets remarried he has committed adultery, and therefore her divorce was for valid reasons. She can allow the divorce because of (future) adultery...
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
12_13
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11/13/2014 1:26:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/13/2014 12:28:31 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
With that being said. Do Christians believe that sex is technically marriage? Please confirm this.

Marriage is vague word and can be defined many ways. Bible doesn"t really use it much. Bible says for example this:

He answered, "Haven't you read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, 'For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother, and shall join to his wife; and the two shall become one flesh?' So that they are no more two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, don't let man tear apart."
Matt. 19:4-6

I, as a disciple of Jesus, think that means, when man and woman have sex, bond is formed between them. And on basis of what I have seen, I think there really is some connection formed that lasts at least this life. People may divorce and go separate ways, but there seems to always remain connection, which is why I think it is also said "first love last love". And when people try to break that connection, it seems to cause sorrow. Therefore I think sex is marriage and therefore people should really carefully think when they will have sex, because even if they don"t want to be married, their minds can be married for this life, even if they don"t want.
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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11/13/2014 1:28:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/13/2014 1:26:06 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 11/13/2014 12:28:31 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
With that being said. Do Christians believe that sex is technically marriage? Please confirm this.

Marriage is vague word and can be defined many ways. Bible doesn"t really use it much. Bible says for example this:

He answered, "Haven't you read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, 'For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother, and shall join to his wife; and the two shall become one flesh?' So that they are no more two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, don't let man tear apart."
Matt. 19:4-6

I, as a disciple of Jesus, think that means, when man and woman have sex, bond is formed between them. And on basis of what I have seen, I think there really is some connection formed that lasts at least this life. People may divorce and go separate ways, but there seems to always remain connection, which is why I think it is also said "first love last love". And when people try to break that connection, it seems to cause sorrow. Therefore I think sex is marriage and therefore people should really carefully think when they will have sex, because even if they don"t want to be married, their minds can be married for this life, even if they don"t want.

Thank you. So in truth as you see it, sex is what binds a man to a woman.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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11/13/2014 10:44:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/13/2014 12:28:31 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
I've been thinking this. In the old testament to get married they simply entered a tent and consummated. That's basically how Jacob was tricked after busting his hump for 7 years in the service of his uncle into marrying his unattractive cousin, Leah.

With that being said. Do Christians believe that sex is technically marriage? Please confirm this.

Also, what does the bible say about divorce? Does being divorced really make a woman an adulterer? And what if she wasn't a virgin when she got married in the first place? Does that mean she was already married and thus no divorce is needed?

I'm seriously confused by this. Any clarification will help me in a debate I'm currently having with my sister.

O_O I have never heard these questions asked before. Good questions.

Most Christians will tell you that sex is a part of marriage, but I find this to be bull. I think love is the key to a marriage. It's just that the culture of Jacob practiced marriage like that.

Divorce, well the bible says when you marry somebody, your spirits marry and they can never part til death. This is why westboro Baptist church pickets Vince Gill and Blake Shelton. I personally don't find this to be true. I would just look up some theology works. NT Wright usually has good New Testament stuff.
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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11/13/2014 10:52:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/13/2014 10:44:23 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 11/13/2014 12:28:31 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
I've been thinking this. In the old testament to get married they simply entered a tent and consummated. That's basically how Jacob was tricked after busting his hump for 7 years in the service of his uncle into marrying his unattractive cousin, Leah.

With that being said. Do Christians believe that sex is technically marriage? Please confirm this.

Also, what does the bible say about divorce? Does being divorced really make a woman an adulterer? And what if she wasn't a virgin when she got married in the first place? Does that mean she was already married and thus no divorce is needed?

I'm seriously confused by this. Any clarification will help me in a debate I'm currently having with my sister.

O_O I have never heard these questions asked before. Good questions.

Most Christians will tell you that sex is a part of marriage, but I find this to be bull. I think love is the key to a marriage. It's just that the culture of Jacob practiced marriage like that.

Divorce, well the bible says when you marry somebody, your spirits marry and they can never part til death. This is why westboro Baptist church pickets Vince Gill and Blake Shelton. I personally don't find this to be true. I would just look up some theology works. NT Wright usually has good New Testament stuff.

Okay thank you :)
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."