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EtrnlVw
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11/14/2014 6:24:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
All throughout our entire history there is one consistent fact, the reality of a spiritual world is undeniably accepted and believed by too many to list and reaches every crack in the Earth where people exist, not because we are "programmed" or "indoctrinated" but because there are a huge percentage of souls who not only believe but would testify, even to death.

Spirits and heavenly beings are everywhere and spiritual encounters are innumerable, there is no doubt that the fingerprint of history speaks of spiritual existence. No it doesn't "prove" anything and I'm not trying to, the only thing it proves is that my statement is correct, just speaking the truth of the matter.

And thanks for the labeling and assertions before hand.
Thanksfornotraping
Posts: 238
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11/14/2014 6:43:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/14/2014 6:24:09 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
All throughout our entire history there is one consistent fact, the reality of a spiritual world is undeniably accepted and believed by too many to list and reaches every crack in the Earth where people exist, not because we are "programmed" or "indoctrinated" but because there are a huge percentage of souls who not only believe but would testify, even to death.

Spirits and heavenly beings are everywhere and spiritual encounters are innumerable, there is no doubt that the fingerprint of history speaks of spiritual existence. No it doesn't "prove" anything and I'm not trying to, the only thing it proves is that my statement is correct, just speaking the truth of the matter.

And thanks for the labeling and assertions before hand.

Agreed, but to those who never experience any spiritual encounters, and ask for physical proof from those who have, the explanations never satisfy them...
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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11/14/2014 7:03:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/14/2014 6:24:09 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
All throughout our entire history there is one consistent fact, the reality of a spiritual world is undeniably accepted and believed by too many to list and reaches every crack in the Earth where people exist, not because we are "programmed" or "indoctrinated" but because there are a huge percentage of souls who not only believe but would testify, even to death.

Spirits and heavenly beings are everywhere and spiritual encounters are innumerable, there is no doubt that the fingerprint of history speaks of spiritual existence. No it doesn't "prove" anything and I'm not trying to, the only thing it proves is that my statement is correct, just speaking the truth of the matter.

And thanks for the labeling and assertions before hand.

Let's not forget that these spirits have been claimed to be responsible for disease, mental illness, bad luck, homosexuality, retardation, catalepsy, weather calamities, eclipses, birth defects, headaches, epilepsy, nightmares, blindness, asthma, and a host of other phenomena. One by one, each of these things have been found to have purely physical or psychological causes. Yet some seem insistent on never learning from the mistakes of the past. The idea of spirits arose from primitive ignorance, and is perpetuated by willful ignorance.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,095
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11/14/2014 7:06:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/14/2014 6:24:09 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
All throughout our entire history there is one consistent fact, the reality of a spiritual world is undeniably accepted and believed by too many to list and reaches every crack in the Earth where people exist, not because we are "programmed" or "indoctrinated" but because there are a huge percentage of souls who not only believe but would testify, even to death.

Spirits and heavenly beings are everywhere and spiritual encounters are innumerable, there is no doubt that the fingerprint of history speaks of spiritual existence. No it doesn't "prove" anything and I'm not trying to, the only thing it proves is that my statement is correct, just speaking the truth of the matter.

And thanks for the labeling and assertions before hand.

"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." " Christopher Hitchens
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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11/14/2014 7:19:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/14/2014 6:43:19 PM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 11/14/2014 6:24:09 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
All throughout our entire history there is one consistent fact, the reality of a spiritual world is undeniably accepted and believed by too many to list and reaches every crack in the Earth where people exist, not because we are "programmed" or "indoctrinated" but because there are a huge percentage of souls who not only believe but would testify, even to death.

Spirits and heavenly beings are everywhere and spiritual encounters are innumerable, there is no doubt that the fingerprint of history speaks of spiritual existence. No it doesn't "prove" anything and I'm not trying to, the only thing it proves is that my statement is correct, just speaking the truth of the matter.

And thanks for the labeling and assertions before hand.

Agreed, but to those who never experience any spiritual encounters, and ask for physical proof from those who have, the explanations never satisfy them...

Understood, I can see why but do you understand why "physical proof" can't be demonstrated?
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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11/14/2014 7:22:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/14/2014 7:03:01 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 11/14/2014 6:24:09 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
All throughout our entire history there is one consistent fact, the reality of a spiritual world is undeniably accepted and believed by too many to list and reaches every crack in the Earth where people exist, not because we are "programmed" or "indoctrinated" but because there are a huge percentage of souls who not only believe but would testify, even to death.

Spirits and heavenly beings are everywhere and spiritual encounters are innumerable, there is no doubt that the fingerprint of history speaks of spiritual existence. No it doesn't "prove" anything and I'm not trying to, the only thing it proves is that my statement is correct, just speaking the truth of the matter.

And thanks for the labeling and assertions before hand.

Let's not forget that these spirits have been claimed to be responsible for disease, mental illness, bad luck, homosexuality, retardation, catalepsy, weather calamities, eclipses, birth defects, headaches, epilepsy, nightmares, blindness, asthma, and a host of other phenomena. One by one, each of these things have been found to have purely physical or psychological causes. Yet some seem insistent on never learning from the mistakes of the past. The idea of spirits arose from primitive ignorance, and is perpetuated by willful ignorance.

We are vessels and spirits exist (in religion), "what" they affect is debatable and Humans can be silly, but certainly in Christianity spirits have their impact on reality.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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11/14/2014 7:23:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/14/2014 7:06:36 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/14/2014 6:24:09 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
All throughout our entire history there is one consistent fact, the reality of a spiritual world is undeniably accepted and believed by too many to list and reaches every crack in the Earth where people exist, not because we are "programmed" or "indoctrinated" but because there are a huge percentage of souls who not only believe but would testify, even to death.

Spirits and heavenly beings are everywhere and spiritual encounters are innumerable, there is no doubt that the fingerprint of history speaks of spiritual existence. No it doesn't "prove" anything and I'm not trying to, the only thing it proves is that my statement is correct, just speaking the truth of the matter.

And thanks for the labeling and assertions before hand.

"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." " Christopher Hitchens

Very well :)
MEK
Posts: 253
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11/14/2014 7:33:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." " Christopher Hitchens

I second Skepticalone post - it says it all and we rest our case.
Thanksfornotraping
Posts: 238
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11/14/2014 7:40:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/14/2014 7:19:59 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 11/14/2014 6:43:19 PM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 11/14/2014 6:24:09 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
All throughout our entire history there is one consistent fact, the reality of a spiritual world is undeniably accepted and believed by too many to list and reaches every crack in the Earth where people exist, not because we are "programmed" or "indoctrinated" but because there are a huge percentage of souls who not only believe but would testify, even to death.

Spirits and heavenly beings are everywhere and spiritual encounters are innumerable, there is no doubt that the fingerprint of history speaks of spiritual existence. No it doesn't "prove" anything and I'm not trying to, the only thing it proves is that my statement is correct, just speaking the truth of the matter.

And thanks for the labeling and assertions before hand.

Agreed, but to those who never experience any spiritual encounters, and ask for physical proof from those who have, the explanations never satisfy them...

Understood, I can see why but do you understand why "physical proof" can't be demonstrated?

I'm not a physical miracle worker, so I have no idea how to recreate my spiritual experiences to others. And frankly, I think that shouldn't be my objective as my own spiritual experiences are meant to guide me back to God, and may not be suitable for everyone else at their stage of spiritual advancement...
MEK
Posts: 253
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11/14/2014 8:02:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/14/2014 7:40:22 PM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 11/14/2014 7:19:59 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 11/14/2014 6:43:19 PM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 11/14/2014 6:24:09 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
All throughout our entire history there is one consistent fact, the reality of a spiritual world is undeniably accepted and believed by too many to list and reaches every crack in the Earth where people exist, not because we are "programmed" or "indoctrinated" but because there are a huge percentage of souls who not only believe but would testify, even to death.

Spirits and heavenly beings are everywhere and spiritual encounters are innumerable, there is no doubt that the fingerprint of history speaks of spiritual existence. No it doesn't "prove" anything and I'm not trying to, the only thing it proves is that my statement is correct, just speaking the truth of the matter.

And thanks for the labeling and assertions before hand.

Agreed, but to those who never experience any spiritual encounters, and ask for physical proof from those who have, the explanations never satisfy them...

Understood, I can see why but do you understand why "physical proof" can't be demonstrated?

I'm not a physical miracle worker, so I have no idea how to recreate my spiritual experiences to others. And frankly, I think that shouldn't be my objective as my own spiritual experiences are meant to guide me back to God, and may not be suitable for everyone else at their stage of spiritual advancement...

What exactly are you positing? To which god are you being guided back?
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,208
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11/14/2014 8:05:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/14/2014 7:22:58 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 11/14/2014 7:03:01 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 11/14/2014 6:24:09 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
All throughout our entire history there is one consistent fact, the reality of a spiritual world is undeniably accepted and believed by too many to list and reaches every crack in the Earth where people exist, not because we are "programmed" or "indoctrinated" but because there are a huge percentage of souls who not only believe but would testify, even to death.

Spirits and heavenly beings are everywhere and spiritual encounters are innumerable, there is no doubt that the fingerprint of history speaks of spiritual existence. No it doesn't "prove" anything and I'm not trying to, the only thing it proves is that my statement is correct, just speaking the truth of the matter.

And thanks for the labeling and assertions before hand.

Let's not forget that these spirits have been claimed to be responsible for disease, mental illness, bad luck, homosexuality, retardation, catalepsy, weather calamities, eclipses, birth defects, headaches, epilepsy, nightmares, blindness, asthma, and a host of other phenomena. One by one, each of these things have been found to have purely physical or psychological causes. Yet some seem insistent on never learning from the mistakes of the past. The idea of spirits arose from primitive ignorance, and is perpetuated by willful ignorance.

We are vessels and spirits exist (in religion), "what" they affect is debatable and Humans can be silly, but certainly in Christianity spirits have their impact on reality.

I think the better question is "Can you?"

Lets posit for a moment that indeed, this spiritual phenomenon you claim to be real, while not able to be proven physically, does indeed exist.

This would mean that such a phenomenon could be replicated. Said spirits might act at the behest of the caller to prove themselves when summoned. Even if I can't see this spirit world, I should be able to pray, meditate, invoke or in a replicatable way, manifest those results attributed to the spirit world.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,208
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11/14/2014 8:07:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/14/2014 7:19:59 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 11/14/2014 6:43:19 PM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 11/14/2014 6:24:09 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
All throughout our entire history there is one consistent fact, the reality of a spiritual world is undeniably accepted and believed by too many to list and reaches every crack in the Earth where people exist, not because we are "programmed" or "indoctrinated" but because there are a huge percentage of souls who not only believe but would testify, even to death.

Spirits and heavenly beings are everywhere and spiritual encounters are innumerable, there is no doubt that the fingerprint of history speaks of spiritual existence. No it doesn't "prove" anything and I'm not trying to, the only thing it proves is that my statement is correct, just speaking the truth of the matter.

And thanks for the labeling and assertions before hand.

Agreed, but to those who never experience any spiritual encounters, and ask for physical proof from those who have, the explanations never satisfy them...

Understood, I can see why but do you understand why "physical proof" can't be demonstrated?

I think the better question is "Can you?"

Lets posit for a moment that indeed, this spiritual phenomenon you claim to be real, while not able to be proven physically, does indeed exist.

This would mean that such a phenomenon could be replicated. Said spirits might act at the behest of the caller to prove themselves when summoned. Even if I can't see this spirit world, I should be able to pray, meditate, invoke or in a replicatable way, manifest those results attributed to the spirit world.

Apologies to all for the double post, I replied to the wrong question.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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11/14/2014 8:25:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/14/2014 7:40:22 PM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 11/14/2014 7:19:59 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 11/14/2014 6:43:19 PM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 11/14/2014 6:24:09 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
All throughout our entire history there is one consistent fact, the reality of a spiritual world is undeniably accepted and believed by too many to list and reaches every crack in the Earth where people exist, not because we are "programmed" or "indoctrinated" but because there are a huge percentage of souls who not only believe but would testify, even to death.

Spirits and heavenly beings are everywhere and spiritual encounters are innumerable, there is no doubt that the fingerprint of history speaks of spiritual existence. No it doesn't "prove" anything and I'm not trying to, the only thing it proves is that my statement is correct, just speaking the truth of the matter.

And thanks for the labeling and assertions before hand.

Agreed, but to those who never experience any spiritual encounters, and ask for physical proof from those who have, the explanations never satisfy them...

Understood, I can see why but do you understand why "physical proof" can't be demonstrated?

I'm not a physical miracle worker, so I have no idea how to recreate my spiritual experiences to others.
And if you did or could, the objective rational explanation would be open to discovery. And you wouldn't want that.

And frankly, I think that shouldn't be my objective as my own spiritual experiences are meant to guide me back to God, and may not be suitable for everyone else at their stage of spiritual advancement...
They're designed to do whatever you've constructed them to do. That's why those who believe in highly diverse gods, construct their explanations for their experiences to lead them to the god they've already accepted.

They're not objectively demonstrated because that would open them to objective assessment. And objective assessment would betray your reasons for assessing them subjectively.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
PGA
Posts: 4,038
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11/15/2014 12:56:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/14/2014 7:06:36 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/14/2014 6:24:09 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
All throughout our entire history there is one consistent fact, the reality of a spiritual world is undeniably accepted and believed by too many to list and reaches every crack in the Earth where people exist, not because we are "programmed" or "indoctrinated" but because there are a huge percentage of souls who not only believe but would testify, even to death.

Spirits and heavenly beings are everywhere and spiritual encounters are innumerable, there is no doubt that the fingerprint of history speaks of spiritual existence. No it doesn't "prove" anything and I'm not trying to, the only thing it proves is that my statement is correct, just speaking the truth of the matter.

And thanks for the labeling and assertions before hand.

"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." " Christopher Hitchens

Then the late great demagogs assertion can also be dismissed.

Peter
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,095
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11/15/2014 1:23:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/15/2014 12:56:20 AM, PGA wrote:
At 11/14/2014 7:06:36 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/14/2014 6:24:09 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
All throughout our entire history there is one consistent fact, the reality of a spiritual world is undeniably accepted and believed by too many to list and reaches every crack in the Earth where people exist, not because we are "programmed" or "indoctrinated" but because there are a huge percentage of souls who not only believe but would testify, even to death.

Spirits and heavenly beings are everywhere and spiritual encounters are innumerable, there is no doubt that the fingerprint of history speaks of spiritual existence. No it doesn't "prove" anything and I'm not trying to, the only thing it proves is that my statement is correct, just speaking the truth of the matter.

And thanks for the labeling and assertions before hand.

"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." " Christopher Hitchens

Then the late great demagogs assertion can also be dismissed.

Peter

And perhaps you believe we should accept all unsupported assertions? I consider Hitchen's words to be common sense.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,208
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11/15/2014 1:33:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/15/2014 12:56:20 AM, PGA wrote:
At 11/14/2014 7:06:36 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/14/2014 6:24:09 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
All throughout our entire history there is one consistent fact, the reality of a spiritual world is undeniably accepted and believed by too many to list and reaches every crack in the Earth where people exist, not because we are "programmed" or "indoctrinated" but because there are a huge percentage of souls who not only believe but would testify, even to death.

Spirits and heavenly beings are everywhere and spiritual encounters are innumerable, there is no doubt that the fingerprint of history speaks of spiritual existence. No it doesn't "prove" anything and I'm not trying to, the only thing it proves is that my statement is correct, just speaking the truth of the matter.

And thanks for the labeling and assertions before hand.

"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." " Christopher Hitchens

Then the late great demagogs assertion can also be dismissed.

Peter

Even though there is apt evidence of people doing that, without consequence, and rightly so, every day? Wouldn't that inherently be evidence (via demonstration) to his 'assertion'?
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
dee-em
Posts: 6,456
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11/15/2014 6:39:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/15/2014 12:56:20 AM, PGA wrote:
At 11/14/2014 7:06:36 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/14/2014 6:24:09 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
All throughout our entire history there is one consistent fact, the reality of a spiritual world is undeniably accepted and believed by too many to list and reaches every crack in the Earth where people exist, not because we are "programmed" or "indoctrinated" but because there are a huge percentage of souls who not only believe but would testify, even to death.

Spirits and heavenly beings are everywhere and spiritual encounters are innumerable, there is no doubt that the fingerprint of history speaks of spiritual existence. No it doesn't "prove" anything and I'm not trying to, the only thing it proves is that my statement is correct, just speaking the truth of the matter.

And thanks for the labeling and assertions before hand.

"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." " Christopher Hitchens

Then the late great demagogs assertion can also be dismissed.

If we dismiss it, then assertions without evidence can't be dismissed without evidence. And yet that is exactly what you just did. Sorry, that's a fail.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,606
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11/15/2014 8:09:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/14/2014 6:24:09 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
All throughout our entire history there is one consistent fact, the reality of a spiritual world is undeniably accepted and believed by too many to list and reaches every crack in the Earth where people exist, not because we are "programmed" or "indoctrinated" but because there are a huge percentage of souls who not only believe but would testify, even to death.

Yes, our history has been heavily steeped in myth and superstition, ,and yes, the vast majority have been indoctrinated to believe in them.

Spirits and heavenly beings are everywhere and spiritual encounters are innumerable, there is no doubt that the fingerprint of history speaks of spiritual existence. No it doesn't "prove" anything and I'm not trying to, the only thing it proves is that my statement is correct, just speaking the truth of the matter.

Sorry, but your statement is not correct or is any way true.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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11/15/2014 9:10:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/14/2014 7:19:59 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 11/14/2014 6:43:19 PM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 11/14/2014 6:24:09 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
All throughout our entire history there is one consistent fact, the reality of a spiritual world is undeniably accepted and believed by too many to list and reaches every crack in the Earth where people exist, not because we are "programmed" or "indoctrinated" but because there are a huge percentage of souls who not only believe but would testify, even to death.

Spirits and heavenly beings are everywhere and spiritual encounters are innumerable, there is no doubt that the fingerprint of history speaks of spiritual existence. No it doesn't "prove" anything and I'm not trying to, the only thing it proves is that my statement is correct, just speaking the truth of the matter.

And thanks for the labeling and assertions before hand.

Agreed, but to those who never experience any spiritual encounters, and ask for physical proof from those who have, the explanations never satisfy them...

Understood, I can see why but do you understand why "physical proof" can't be demonstrated?

Physical proof, or physical evidence? And would that evidence be proof? The presence can affect something physical without being physical itself, correct? And could that affect be on living organisms?
PGA
Posts: 4,038
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11/15/2014 9:53:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/15/2014 1:23:49 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/15/2014 12:56:20 AM, PGA wrote:
At 11/14/2014 7:06:36 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/14/2014 6:24:09 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
All throughout our entire history there is one consistent fact, the reality of a spiritual world is undeniably accepted and believed by too many to list and reaches every crack in the Earth where people exist, not because we are "programmed" or "indoctrinated" but because there are a huge percentage of souls who not only believe but would testify, even to death.

Spirits and heavenly beings are everywhere and spiritual encounters are innumerable, there is no doubt that the fingerprint of history speaks of spiritual existence. No it doesn't "prove" anything and I'm not trying to, the only thing it proves is that my statement is correct, just speaking the truth of the matter.

And thanks for the labeling and assertions before hand.

"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." " Christopher Hitchens

Then the late great demagogs assertion can also be dismissed.

Peter

And perhaps you believe we should accept all unsupported assertions? I consider Hitchen's words to be common sense.

No, it is just that Hitchens is making an assertion about assertions without supplying any evidence, so on the one hand he criticizes someone else for making assertions then he does the same thing himself.

Peter
PGA
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11/15/2014 9:59:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/15/2014 6:39:26 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 11/15/2014 12:56:20 AM, PGA wrote:
At 11/14/2014 7:06:36 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/14/2014 6:24:09 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
All throughout our entire history there is one consistent fact, the reality of a spiritual world is undeniably accepted and believed by too many to list and reaches every crack in the Earth where people exist, not because we are "programmed" or "indoctrinated" but because there are a huge percentage of souls who not only believe but would testify, even to death.

Spirits and heavenly beings are everywhere and spiritual encounters are innumerable, there is no doubt that the fingerprint of history speaks of spiritual existence. No it doesn't "prove" anything and I'm not trying to, the only thing it proves is that my statement is correct, just speaking the truth of the matter.

And thanks for the labeling and assertions before hand.

"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." " Christopher Hitchens

Then the late great demagogs assertion can also be dismissed.

If we dismiss it, then assertions without evidence can't be dismissed without evidence. And yet that is exactly what you just did. Sorry, that's a fail.

I dismissed it on the statement he made. He said that "That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence" and the statement was made without evidence so I dismissed it on his own criteria. He refuted his own statwment, not me.

Peter
PGA
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11/15/2014 10:06:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/15/2014 1:23:49 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/15/2014 12:56:20 AM, PGA wrote:
At 11/14/2014 7:06:36 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/14/2014 6:24:09 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
All throughout our entire history there is one consistent fact, the reality of a spiritual world is undeniably accepted and believed by too many to list and reaches every crack in the Earth where people exist, not because we are "programmed" or "indoctrinated" but because there are a huge percentage of souls who not only believe but would testify, even to death.

Spirits and heavenly beings are everywhere and spiritual encounters are innumerable, there is no doubt that the fingerprint of history speaks of spiritual existence. No it doesn't "prove" anything and I'm not trying to, the only thing it proves is that my statement is correct, just speaking the truth of the matter.

And thanks for the labeling and assertions before hand.

"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." " Christopher Hitchens

Then the late great demagogs assertion can also be dismissed.

Peter

And perhaps you believe we should accept all unsupported assertions? I consider Hitchen's words to be common sense.

I never said that. I just commented on his statement. We accept all kinds of assertions every day. Some assertions are reasonable to believe and others aren't.

Peter
Skepticalone
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11/15/2014 12:17:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/15/2014 9:53:13 AM, PGA wrote:
At 11/15/2014 1:23:49 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/15/2014 12:56:20 AM, PGA wrote:
At 11/14/2014 7:06:36 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/14/2014 6:24:09 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
All throughout our entire history there is one consistent fact, the reality of a spiritual world is undeniably accepted and believed by too many to list and reaches every crack in the Earth where people exist, not because we are "programmed" or "indoctrinated" but because there are a huge percentage of souls who not only believe but would testify, even to death.

Spirits and heavenly beings are everywhere and spiritual encounters are innumerable, there is no doubt that the fingerprint of history speaks of spiritual existence. No it doesn't "prove" anything and I'm not trying to, the only thing it proves is that my statement is correct, just speaking the truth of the matter.

And thanks for the labeling and assertions before hand.

"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." " Christopher Hitchens

Then the late great demagogs assertion can also be dismissed.

Peter

And perhaps you believe we should accept all unsupported assertions? I consider Hitchen's words to be common sense.

No, it is just that Hitchens is making an assertion about assertions without supplying any evidence, so on the one hand he criticizes someone else for making assertions then he does the same thing himself.

Peter

Oh, I understand your objection, but I'm not sure if you do. Hitchen's statement reflects the methodology we use in association with the burden of proof. To suggest his statement should be dismissed also suggest the philosophical burden of proof is unnecessary. Essentially, you are arguing against valid reasoning.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
DanneJeRusse
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11/15/2014 12:23:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/15/2014 10:06:53 AM, PGA wrote:

I never said that. I just commented on his statement. We accept all kinds of assertions every day. Some assertions are reasonable to believe and others aren't.

Peter

Fair enough, but when it comes to making important decisions, do we get the facts straight or do we make decisions based on believed assertions?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
PGA
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11/15/2014 12:43:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/15/2014 12:17:40 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/15/2014 9:53:13 AM, PGA wrote:
At 11/15/2014 1:23:49 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/15/2014 12:56:20 AM, PGA wrote:
At 11/14/2014 7:06:36 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/14/2014 6:24:09 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
All throughout our entire history there is one consistent fact, the reality of a spiritual world is undeniably accepted and believed by too many to list and reaches every crack in the Earth where people exist, not because we are "programmed" or "indoctrinated" but because there are a huge percentage of souls who not only believe but would testify, even to death.

Spirits and heavenly beings are everywhere and spiritual encounters are innumerable, there is no doubt that the fingerprint of history speaks of spiritual existence. No it doesn't "prove" anything and I'm not trying to, the only thing it proves is that my statement is correct, just speaking the truth of the matter.

And thanks for the labeling and assertions before hand.

"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." " Christopher Hitchens

Then the late great demagogs assertion can also be dismissed.

Peter

And perhaps you believe we should accept all unsupported assertions? I consider Hitchen's words to be common sense.

No, it is just that Hitchens is making an assertion about assertions without supplying any evidence, so on the one hand he criticizes someone else for making assertions then he does the same thing himself.

Peter

Oh, I understand your objection, but I'm not sure if you do. Hitchen's statement reflects the methodology we use in association with the burden of proof. To suggest his statement should be dismissed also suggest the philosophical burden of proof is unnecessary. Essentially, you are arguing against valid reasoning.

I'm not arguing against valid reasoning, just the statement you quoted from him. Show me the context of this sentence. If the sentence stands alone then he has not met the burden of proof that he requires of assertions. We make assertions all the time which are based on previous knowledge and evidence and that we have no evidence for. Some things you have to accept as true because you have no proof for them other than inference and worldview bias. You infer that life comes from non-life. You have never seen this take place. Your worldview requires this in order for you to believe what you do.

Peter
PGA
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11/15/2014 12:46:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/15/2014 12:23:15 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 11/15/2014 10:06:53 AM, PGA wrote:

I never said that. I just commented on his statement. We accept all kinds of assertions every day. Some assertions are reasonable to believe and others aren't.

Peter

Fair enough, but when it comes to making important decisions, do we get the facts straight or do we make decisions based on believed assertions?

It depends on what the belief is but in general I would say we do both, at least I do. I was not here when the universe began. I look upon it from a certain disposition that I believe makes sense of it and you choose another.

Peter
Skepticalone
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11/15/2014 1:11:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/15/2014 12:43:17 PM, PGA wrote:
At 11/15/2014 12:17:40 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/15/2014 9:53:13 AM, PGA wrote:
At 11/15/2014 1:23:49 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/15/2014 12:56:20 AM, PGA wrote:
At 11/14/2014 7:06:36 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/14/2014 6:24:09 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
All throughout our entire history there is one consistent fact, the reality of a spiritual world is undeniably accepted and believed by too many to list and reaches every crack in the Earth where people exist, not because we are "programmed" or "indoctrinated" but because there are a huge percentage of souls who not only believe but would testify, even to death.

Spirits and heavenly beings are everywhere and spiritual encounters are innumerable, there is no doubt that the fingerprint of history speaks of spiritual existence. No it doesn't "prove" anything and I'm not trying to, the only thing it proves is that my statement is correct, just speaking the truth of the matter.

And thanks for the labeling and assertions before hand.

"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." " Christopher Hitchens

Then the late great demagogs assertion can also be dismissed.

Peter

And perhaps you believe we should accept all unsupported assertions? I consider Hitchen's words to be common sense.

No, it is just that Hitchens is making an assertion about assertions without supplying any evidence, so on the one hand he criticizes someone else for making assertions then he does the same thing himself.

Peter

Oh, I understand your objection, but I'm not sure if you do. Hitchen's statement reflects the methodology we use in association with the burden of proof. To suggest his statement should be dismissed also suggest the philosophical burden of proof is unnecessary. Essentially, you are arguing against valid reasoning.

I'm not arguing against valid reasoning, just the statement you quoted from him. Show me the context of this sentence. If the sentence stands alone then he has not met the burden of proof that he requires of assertions. We make assertions all the time which are based on previous knowledge and evidence and that we have no evidence for.

What?! "evidence that we have no evidence for"?

Some things you have to accept as true because you have no proof for them other than inference and worldview bias. You infer that life comes from non-life. You have never seen this take place. Your worldview requires this in order for you to believe what you do.

We have evidence for abiogenesis. Claim + evidence = yes
We have no evidence for creation. Claim + 0 = 0
1st law of thermodynamics is evidence against creation. Claim - evidence = no.

What were you saying about valid reasoning?


Peter
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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11/15/2014 5:12:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/15/2014 12:43:17 PM, PGA wrote:
At 11/15/2014 12:17:40 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/15/2014 9:53:13 AM, PGA wrote:
At 11/15/2014 1:23:49 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/15/2014 12:56:20 AM, PGA wrote:
At 11/14/2014 7:06:36 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." " Christopher Hitchens

Then the late great demagogs assertion can also be dismissed.

Peter

And perhaps you believe we should accept all unsupported assertions? I consider Hitchen's words to be common sense.

No, it is just that Hitchens is making an assertion about assertions without supplying any evidence, so on the one hand he criticizes someone else for making assertions then he does the same thing himself.

Peter

Oh, I understand your objection, but I'm not sure if you do. Hitchen's statement reflects the methodology we use in association with the burden of proof. To suggest his statement should be dismissed also suggest the philosophical burden of proof is unnecessary. Essentially, you are arguing against valid reasoning.

I'm not arguing against valid reasoning, just the statement you quoted from him. Show me the context of this sentence. If the sentence stands alone then he has not met the burden of proof that he requires of assertions.

So you're demanding that he meet his burden of proof to show that demanding others to meet their burden of proof is valid?
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,095
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11/15/2014 5:52:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/15/2014 5:12:32 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 11/15/2014 12:43:17 PM, PGA wrote:
At 11/15/2014 12:17:40 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/15/2014 9:53:13 AM, PGA wrote:
At 11/15/2014 1:23:49 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/15/2014 12:56:20 AM, PGA wrote:
At 11/14/2014 7:06:36 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." " Christopher Hitchens

Then the late great demagogs assertion can also be dismissed.

Peter

And perhaps you believe we should accept all unsupported assertions? I consider Hitchen's words to be common sense.

No, it is just that Hitchens is making an assertion about assertions without supplying any evidence, so on the one hand he criticizes someone else for making assertions then he does the same thing himself.

Peter

Oh, I understand your objection, but I'm not sure if you do. Hitchen's statement reflects the methodology we use in association with the burden of proof. To suggest his statement should be dismissed also suggest the philosophical burden of proof is unnecessary. Essentially, you are arguing against valid reasoning.

I'm not arguing against valid reasoning, just the statement you quoted from him. Show me the context of this sentence. If the sentence stands alone then he has not met the burden of proof that he requires of assertions.

So you're demanding that he meet his burden of proof to show that demanding others to meet their burden of proof is valid?

+1
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
dee-em
Posts: 6,456
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11/15/2014 5:57:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/15/2014 9:59:20 AM, PGA wrote:
At 11/15/2014 6:39:26 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 11/15/2014 12:56:20 AM, PGA wrote:
At 11/14/2014 7:06:36 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/14/2014 6:24:09 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
All throughout our entire history there is one consistent fact, the reality of a spiritual world is undeniably accepted and believed by too many to list and reaches every crack in the Earth where people exist, not because we are "programmed" or "indoctrinated" but because there are a huge percentage of souls who not only believe but would testify, even to death.

Spirits and heavenly beings are everywhere and spiritual encounters are innumerable, there is no doubt that the fingerprint of history speaks of spiritual existence. No it doesn't "prove" anything and I'm not trying to, the only thing it proves is that my statement is correct, just speaking the truth of the matter.

And thanks for the labeling and assertions before hand.

"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." " Christopher Hitchens

Then the late great demagogs assertion can also be dismissed.

If we dismiss it, then assertions without evidence can't be dismissed without evidence. And yet that is exactly what you just did. Sorry, that's a fail.

I dismissed it on the statement he made. He said that "That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence" and the statement was made without evidence so I dismissed it on his own criteria. He refuted his own statwment, not me.

You don't get it. You used Hitchen's rule (assumed it had validity) in order to dismiss his rule, thus (allegedly) rendering it invalid. You don't see the problem?

If you want to refute Hitchen's rule, here's a hint. Don't apply the very rule you're setting out to invalidate. Lol.