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Atheists are Just as Moral as Christians

ChristianPunk
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11/20/2014 6:58:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I've seen some posts and debates where people say atheism lacks the moral view. As if they believe it's God that makes them no longer want to think bad things. I have thought murder and sinful lives before, but I was a Christian doing this. I then got saved at the age of 18 and became a believer of God. Then it hit me, if I were to one day not believe in God, I would still have the same mind set and moral values I have. What I think the problem is, is that Christians who say that atheists have no morals is because they themselves don't have any and are going to follow one laid out while forcing it on others. It's pretty much a popularity contest and this goes against God's will. If you are only good because God told you to and not because it is in your heart and reason/logic, then you are not really a moral person. You aren't honest. So please wake up before we have more people bombing abortion clinics?
Vox_Veritas
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11/20/2014 7:01:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Sure, atheists have morals like everybody else, but atheism cannot have true morals.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

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jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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11/20/2014 7:03:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 6:58:53 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I've seen some posts and debates where people say atheism lacks the moral view. As if they believe it's God that makes them no longer want to think bad things. I have thought murder and sinful lives before, but I was a Christian doing this. I then got saved at the age of 18 and became a believer of God. Then it hit me, if I were to one day not believe in God, I would still have the same mind set and moral values I have. What I think the problem is, is that Christians who say that atheists have no morals is because they themselves don't have any and are going to follow one laid out while forcing it on others. It's pretty much a popularity contest and this goes against God's will. If you are only good because God told you to and not because it is in your heart and reason/logic, then you are not really a moral person. You aren't honest. So please wake up before we have more people bombing abortion clinics?



Wow. Thanks :) So what's the catch?
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
Vox_Veritas
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11/20/2014 7:05:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 6:58:53 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I've seen some posts and debates where people say atheism lacks the moral view. As if they believe it's God that makes them no longer want to think bad things. I have thought murder and sinful lives before, but I was a Christian doing this. I then got saved at the age of 18 and became a believer of God. Then it hit me, if I were to one day not believe in God, I would still have the same mind set and moral values I have. What I think the problem is, is that Christians who say that atheists have no morals is because they themselves don't have any and are going to follow one laid out while forcing it on others. It's pretty much a popularity contest and this goes against God's will. If you are only good because God told you to and not because it is in your heart and reason/logic, then you are not really a moral person. You aren't honest. So please wake up before we have more people bombing abortion clinics?



"If you have morals only because you're trying to gain favor with some deity and go to Heaven, then you're not really moral."
I've heard this argument before...from Atheists.

However, true Christians strive to be moral because they want to please God. Why do they want to please God? Because they love God.
Not everyone who calls themself a Christian strives to please God, and I myself am usually selfish. I hope to change...
Anyway, if you're moral because you want to please God, that's a pretty good reason.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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11/20/2014 7:16:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 7:01:29 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Sure, atheists have morals like everybody else, but atheism cannot have true morals.

Atheism isn't a belief system. It's one belief... that no gods exist. However, nothing about that means atheists don't have morals. By every objective measure, we tend to be more ethically bound than our theistic counterparts. U.S. prison statistics show that Christians are at least 35-times more likely to commit serious crimes than atheists.

We don't believe someone else has taken the responsibility for us. We're responsible for ourselves. That seems to be a concept well above what many theists can grasp.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
ChristianPunk
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11/20/2014 7:18:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 7:05:59 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:58:53 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I've seen some posts and debates where people say atheism lacks the moral view. As if they believe it's God that makes them no longer want to think bad things. I have thought murder and sinful lives before, but I was a Christian doing this. I then got saved at the age of 18 and became a believer of God. Then it hit me, if I were to one day not believe in God, I would still have the same mind set and moral values I have. What I think the problem is, is that Christians who say that atheists have no morals is because they themselves don't have any and are going to follow one laid out while forcing it on others. It's pretty much a popularity contest and this goes against God's will. If you are only good because God told you to and not because it is in your heart and reason/logic, then you are not really a moral person. You aren't honest. So please wake up before we have more people bombing abortion clinics?



"If you have morals only because you're trying to gain favor with some deity and go to Heaven, then you're not really moral."
I've heard this argument before...from Atheists.

However, true Christians strive to be moral because they want to please God. Why do they want to please God? Because they love God.
Not everyone who calls themself a Christian strives to please God, and I myself am usually selfish. I hope to change...
Anyway, if you're moral because you want to please God, that's a pretty good reason.

True, but some do it out of fear and do not want to do it to please, but to just get to heaven while still thinking thoughts of doing terrible things. This was me back then. I was told if I didn't do good things, I wouldn't get into heaven. If I were to not believe in a god, I would kill and rape people because I was an insane non moralist who didn't develop logic until I was saved, got into punk rock, developed a love for anarchy and learn to use logic. And i'm sorry if something true came from an atheist you heard, but not everything atheists say are to be bull crap. Just like not everything Christians say is to be considered crap.
ChristianPunk
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11/20/2014 7:19:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 7:01:29 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Sure, atheists have morals like everybody else, but atheism cannot have true morals.

Why's that?
ChristianPunk
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11/20/2014 7:19:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 7:03:10 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:58:53 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I've seen some posts and debates where people say atheism lacks the moral view. As if they believe it's God that makes them no longer want to think bad things. I have thought murder and sinful lives before, but I was a Christian doing this. I then got saved at the age of 18 and became a believer of God. Then it hit me, if I were to one day not believe in God, I would still have the same mind set and moral values I have. What I think the problem is, is that Christians who say that atheists have no morals is because they themselves don't have any and are going to follow one laid out while forcing it on others. It's pretty much a popularity contest and this goes against God's will. If you are only good because God told you to and not because it is in your heart and reason/logic, then you are not really a moral person. You aren't honest. So please wake up before we have more people bombing abortion clinics?



Wow. Thanks :) So what's the catch?

Nothing. ^^

-gives cupcake-
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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11/20/2014 7:20:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 6:58:53 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I've seen some posts and debates where people say atheism lacks the moral view. As if they believe it's God that makes them no longer want to think bad things. I have thought murder and sinful lives before, but I was a Christian doing this. I then got saved at the age of 18 and became a believer of God. Then it hit me, if I were to one day not believe in God, I would still have the same mind set and moral values I have. What I think the problem is, is that Christians who say that atheists have no morals is because they themselves don't have any and are going to follow one laid out while forcing it on others. It's pretty much a popularity contest and this goes against God's will. If you are only good because God told you to and not because it is in your heart and reason/logic, then you are not really a moral person. You aren't honest. So please wake up before we have more people bombing abortion clinics?



God's people don't have any idea what the tree of the knowledge of good and evil means. Some Christians believe this is a literal tree and others think that it is about morality and that by being good, they will be closer to a God they have never met.

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil is the visible world that all God's people perceive as being something real. Every individual has a different perception of what good and evil are, which means they don't have the Truth to know they're deceptive words with absolutely no definition to either word.

Good and evil are two words without any definition because they can be defined differently by each individual person. So morality has nothing to do with knowing the Truth. This is why God can take an evil man and make Him one of His prophets or saints who speak for Him.
Vox_Veritas
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11/20/2014 7:24:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 7:19:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 11/20/2014 7:01:29 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Sure, atheists have morals like everybody else, but atheism cannot have true morals.

Why's that?

The only possible way for atheists to have morals is for them to believe something to be right or wrong. But there is no solid foundation for their belief that something is right or wrong, and they (or later generations) can simply redefine what they believe to be right and wrong. This is the reason that I say that eventually incest and bestiality will be allowed in the United States.
A theist can change what he believes to be right and wrong as well, but because he believes in a God who has clearly defined right and wrong, changing what they believe to be right and wrong ultimately changes nothing, because that which was wrong 300 years ago is still wrong today and that which was right 300 years ago is still right today.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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11/20/2014 7:31:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 7:19:48 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 11/20/2014 7:03:10 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:58:53 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I've seen some posts and debates where people say atheism lacks the moral view. As if they believe it's God that makes them no longer want to think bad things. I have thought murder and sinful lives before, but I was a Christian doing this. I then got saved at the age of 18 and became a believer of God. Then it hit me, if I were to one day not believe in God, I would still have the same mind set and moral values I have. What I think the problem is, is that Christians who say that atheists have no morals is because they themselves don't have any and are going to follow one laid out while forcing it on others. It's pretty much a popularity contest and this goes against God's will. If you are only good because God told you to and not because it is in your heart and reason/logic, then you are not really a moral person. You aren't honest. So please wake up before we have more people bombing abortion clinics?



Wow. Thanks :) So what's the catch?

Nothing. ^^

-gives cupcake-

-accepts cupcake-
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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11/20/2014 7:35:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 7:24:54 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/20/2014 7:19:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 11/20/2014 7:01:29 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Sure, atheists have morals like everybody else, but atheism cannot have true morals.

Why's that?

The only possible way for atheists to have morals is for them to believe something to be right or wrong. But there is no solid foundation for their belief that something is right or wrong, and they (or later generations) can simply redefine what they believe to be right and wrong. This is the reason that I say that eventually incest and bestiality will be allowed in the United States.
A theist can change what he believes to be right and wrong as well, but because he believes in a God who has clearly defined right and wrong, changing what they believe to be right and wrong ultimately changes nothing, because that which was wrong 300 years ago is still wrong today and that which was right 300 years ago is still right today.

They believe in a right and wrong based on logic and reason in a society of human beings. If you believe God is the moral book, then explain this following video.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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11/20/2014 7:35:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 7:24:54 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/20/2014 7:19:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 11/20/2014 7:01:29 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Sure, atheists have morals like everybody else, but atheism cannot have true morals.

Why's that?

The only possible way for atheists to have morals is for them to believe something to be right or wrong. But there is no solid foundation for their belief that something is right or wrong, and they (or later generations) can simply redefine what they believe to be right and wrong. This is the reason that I say that eventually incest and bestiality will be allowed in the United States.
A theist can change what he believes to be right and wrong as well, but because he believes in a God who has clearly defined right and wrong, changing what they believe to be right and wrong ultimately changes nothing, because that which was wrong 300 years ago is still wrong today and that which was right 300 years ago is still right today.

It's called the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil", not the tree of the knowledge of right and wrong, you fool.

Every single person on this planet has done everything right in this first age according to God's plan. But most of His people believed good was more right than evil. They have no idea why God created the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
bulproof
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11/20/2014 7:36:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 7:24:54 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/20/2014 7:19:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 11/20/2014 7:01:29 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Sure, atheists have morals like everybody else, but atheism cannot have true morals.

Why's that?

The only possible way for atheists to have morals is for them to believe something to be right or wrong. But there is no solid foundation for their belief that something is right or wrong, and they (or later generations) can simply redefine what they believe to be right and wrong. This is the reason that I say that eventually incest and bestiality will be allowed in the United States.
A theist can change what he believes to be right and wrong as well, but because he believes in a God who has clearly defined right and wrong, changing what they believe to be right and wrong ultimately changes nothing, because that which was wrong 300 years ago is still wrong today and that which was right 300 years ago is still right today.
So a christian believes that human sacrifice is wrong and yet worships a god that demands it.
So it would seem they have better morals than their god also.
Vox_Veritas
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11/20/2014 8:16:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 7:35:34 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 11/20/2014 7:24:54 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/20/2014 7:19:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 11/20/2014 7:01:29 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Sure, atheists have morals like everybody else, but atheism cannot have true morals.

Why's that?

The only possible way for atheists to have morals is for them to believe something to be right or wrong. But there is no solid foundation for their belief that something is right or wrong, and they (or later generations) can simply redefine what they believe to be right and wrong. This is the reason that I say that eventually incest and bestiality will be allowed in the United States.
A theist can change what he believes to be right and wrong as well, but because he believes in a God who has clearly defined right and wrong, changing what they believe to be right and wrong ultimately changes nothing, because that which was wrong 300 years ago is still wrong today and that which was right 300 years ago is still right today.

They believe in a right and wrong based on logic and reason in a society of human beings. If you believe God is the moral book, then explain this following video.



I am incapable of watching the video provided. I'm guessing it pertains to how evil God allegedly is.

In any case, you'd be surprised by the changes in what people consider to be logical. What a Christian believes to be wrong by Christians based on the Bible is not believed to be wrong by atheists based on logic. The Bible deems homosexuality and incest to be immoral, but an atheist would go "Eh, why not? There's no logical reason why homosexuality and consenting incest between two adults is immoral."
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Envisage
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11/20/2014 8:17:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I couldn't disagree more with this post. Well, except the part that atheists 'cannot be moral'.

Christians and atheists necessarily must have different moral landscapes because Christians have different values to atheists. They have values which stem from their belief in God, they value what God has taught them, and they hence value what God dictates of them regarding salvation, repentance, social behaviour, sin, good and evil.

These values, while not uniform among Christians, are clearly things which do not directly entail for atheists.

So while the statement 'atheists cannot be 'moral' is misconceived, the counter-statement that "atheists just as moral as Christians" is also misconceived. Morality is just different (and necessarily so) for Christians to atheists, and no more or less moral because they both have subjective aspects.
bornofgod
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11/20/2014 8:30:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 8:17:08 PM, Envisage wrote:
I couldn't disagree more with this post. Well, except the part that atheists 'cannot be moral'.

Christians and atheists necessarily must have different moral landscapes because Christians have different values to atheists. They have values which stem from their belief in God, they value what God has taught them, and they hence value what God dictates of them regarding salvation, repentance, social behaviour, sin, good and evil.

These values, while not uniform among Christians, are clearly things which do not directly entail for atheists.

So while the statement 'atheists cannot be 'moral' is misconceived, the counter-statement that "atheists just as moral as Christians" is also misconceived. Morality is just different (and necessarily so) for Christians to atheists, and no more or less moral because they both have subjective aspects.

Christians are just as deceived by "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" as atheists are. None of them wonder why good and evil are hanging on the same tree. Have you ever heard a Christian talk about how evil he or she is?
ChristianPunk
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11/20/2014 8:42:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 8:16:50 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/20/2014 7:35:34 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 11/20/2014 7:24:54 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/20/2014 7:19:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 11/20/2014 7:01:29 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Sure, atheists have morals like everybody else, but atheism cannot have true morals.

Why's that?

The only possible way for atheists to have morals is for them to believe something to be right or wrong. But there is no solid foundation for their belief that something is right or wrong, and they (or later generations) can simply redefine what they believe to be right and wrong. This is the reason that I say that eventually incest and bestiality will be allowed in the United States.
A theist can change what he believes to be right and wrong as well, but because he believes in a God who has clearly defined right and wrong, changing what they believe to be right and wrong ultimately changes nothing, because that which was wrong 300 years ago is still wrong today and that which was right 300 years ago is still right today.

They believe in a right and wrong based on logic and reason in a society of human beings. If you believe God is the moral book, then explain this following video.



I am incapable of watching the video provided. I'm guessing it pertains to how evil God allegedly is.

In any case, you'd be surprised by the changes in what people consider to be logical. What a Christian believes to be wrong by Christians based on the Bible is not believed to be wrong by atheists based on logic. The Bible deems homosexuality and incest to be immoral, but an atheist would go "Eh, why not? There's no logical reason why homosexuality and consenting incest between two adults is immoral."

No, it's about a group called "The Army of God" which is know for bombing abortion clinics and killing abortionists in the name of God. They use scripture and the lord to back up their actions.
Vox_Veritas
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11/20/2014 8:42:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 8:42:15 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 11/20/2014 8:16:50 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/20/2014 7:35:34 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 11/20/2014 7:24:54 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/20/2014 7:19:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 11/20/2014 7:01:29 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Sure, atheists have morals like everybody else, but atheism cannot have true morals.

Why's that?

The only possible way for atheists to have morals is for them to believe something to be right or wrong. But there is no solid foundation for their belief that something is right or wrong, and they (or later generations) can simply redefine what they believe to be right and wrong. This is the reason that I say that eventually incest and bestiality will be allowed in the United States.
A theist can change what he believes to be right and wrong as well, but because he believes in a God who has clearly defined right and wrong, changing what they believe to be right and wrong ultimately changes nothing, because that which was wrong 300 years ago is still wrong today and that which was right 300 years ago is still right today.

They believe in a right and wrong based on logic and reason in a society of human beings. If you believe God is the moral book, then explain this following video.



I am incapable of watching the video provided. I'm guessing it pertains to how evil God allegedly is.

In any case, you'd be surprised by the changes in what people consider to be logical. What a Christian believes to be wrong by Christians based on the Bible is not believed to be wrong by atheists based on logic. The Bible deems homosexuality and incest to be immoral, but an atheist would go "Eh, why not? There's no logical reason why homosexuality and consenting incest between two adults is immoral."

No, it's about a group called "The Army of God" which is know for bombing abortion clinics and killing abortionists in the name of God. They use scripture and the lord to back up their actions.

Ah. Okay.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
bornofgod
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11/20/2014 10:34:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 9:03:27 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
I agree. The worst people I have known have been Christian.

They're usually the one's with the most pride in this world. Pride comes from putting more value on one's own accomplishments like building false gods ( church buildings, golden altars, universities, etc. ) than what God planned, created and formed as illusions for us to live in a make-believe world.

So pride is actually a fear that comes from not knowing the Truth.
Vox_Veritas
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11/20/2014 11:44:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 10:34:47 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/20/2014 9:03:27 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
I agree. The worst people I have known have been Christian.

They're usually the one's with the most pride in this world. Pride comes from putting more value on one's own accomplishments like building false gods ( church buildings, golden altars, universities, etc. ) than what God planned, created and formed.

On this much I agree. Good insight.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
ThinkFirst
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11/20/2014 11:59:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 7:24:54 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/20/2014 7:19:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 11/20/2014 7:01:29 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Sure, atheists have morals like everybody else, but atheism cannot have true morals.

Why's that?

The only possible way for atheists to have morals is for them to believe something to be right or wrong. But there is no solid foundation for their belief that something is right or wrong, and they (or later generations) can simply redefine what they believe to be right and wrong. This is the reason that I say that eventually incest and bestiality will be allowed in the United States.

What do you consider to be a "solid foundation for their belief that something is right or wrong?"

A theist can change what he believes to be right and wrong as well, but because he believes in a God who has clearly defined right and wrong, changing what they believe to be right and wrong ultimately changes nothing, because that which was wrong 300 years ago is still wrong today and that which was right 300 years ago is still right today.

If your "god who has clearly defined right and wrong" would actually abide by it, that would be a different story. Here's a few things that were "right" when your ignorant bible writers were OK with it (much of it claimed to be by divine edict), but no longer tolerated, today:

* Genocide.
* Killing for working on the "sabbath."
* Infanticide.
* Virgin kidnapping.
* Virgin rape.
* Human trafficking.
* Invading a sovereign nation.
* Pedophilia
* Polygamy

How's that for your "rock solid foundation" of christian morality...?
Won't you please at least READ the bible, before making such outlandish assertions?
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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11/21/2014 12:51:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
It's true, atheists are equally moral to Christians, we all deserve to die and burn in Hell as sinners, the same as Satan.
Fly
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11/21/2014 1:08:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
People here are getting way too lost in the concept of morality. At the end of the day, it is BEHAVIOR that matters to me.

If a guy is trying to kill me, should I feel better about my predicament because he truly believes that what he is doing is wrong? Or that he has found a way to rationalize the morality of killing me?

There are plenty of people in jail who know they did the wrong thing...
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
bornofgod
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11/21/2014 11:34:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 11:44:47 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/20/2014 10:34:47 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/20/2014 9:03:27 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
I agree. The worst people I have known have been Christian.

They're usually the one's with the most pride in this world. Pride comes from putting more value on one's own accomplishments like building false gods ( church buildings, golden altars, universities, etc. ) than what God planned, created and formed.

On this much I agree. Good insight.

All the thoughts I share in this forum are directly from the Creator of all thoughts.
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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11/21/2014 3:10:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 6:58:53 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I've seen some posts and debates where people say atheism lacks the moral view. As if they believe it's God that makes them no longer want to think bad things. I have thought murder and sinful lives before, but I was a Christian doing this. I then got saved at the age of 18 and became a believer of God. Then it hit me, if I were to one day not believe in God, I would still have the same mind set and moral values I have. What I think the problem is, is that Christians who say that atheists have no morals is because they themselves don't have any and are going to follow one laid out while forcing it on others. It's pretty much a popularity contest and this goes against God's will. If you are only good because God told you to and not because it is in your heart and reason/logic, then you are not really a moral person. You aren't honest. So please wake up before we have more people bombing abortion clinics?


Ok then what is moral? You"ve just tried to impose your morals on those who don"t see bombing abortion clinics as immoral.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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11/21/2014 4:09:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/21/2014 3:10:29 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:58:53 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I've seen some posts and debates where people say atheism lacks the moral view. As if they believe it's God that makes them no longer want to think bad things. I have thought murder and sinful lives before, but I was a Christian doing this. I then got saved at the age of 18 and became a believer of God. Then it hit me, if I were to one day not believe in God, I would still have the same mind set and moral values I have. What I think the problem is, is that Christians who say that atheists have no morals is because they themselves don't have any and are going to follow one laid out while forcing it on others. It's pretty much a popularity contest and this goes against God's will. If you are only good because God told you to and not because it is in your heart and reason/logic, then you are not really a moral person. You aren't honest. So please wake up before we have more people bombing abortion clinics?



Ok then what is moral? You"ve just tried to impose your morals on those who don"t see bombing abortion clinics as immoral.

"Morality" is the set of codes and standards which serves to the benefit of social organizations. Animals which live in isolation have no need of any moral code. What benefits them, is right for them. Animals which exist along with others of their kind (and not of their kind), require certain guidelines to prevent social decay. Those guidelines are "morality". Bombing abortion clinics will never benefit living in social groups. It only fosters and magnifies unrest. It's a failure to recognize where your rights end, and the rights of others begin.

Christians have always been chronic in the failure to perceive the rights of others.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
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11/21/2014 8:01:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 7:24:54 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/20/2014 7:19:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 11/20/2014 7:01:29 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Sure, atheists have morals like everybody else, but atheism cannot have true morals.

Why's that?

The only possible way for atheists to have morals is for them to believe something to be right or wrong. But there is no solid foundation for their belief that something is right or wrong, and they (or later generations) can simply redefine what they believe to be right and wrong. This is the reason that I say that eventually incest and bestiality will be allowed in the United States.
A theist can change what he believes to be right and wrong as well, but because he believes in a God who has clearly defined right and wrong, changing what they believe to be right and wrong ultimately changes nothing, because that which was wrong 300 years ago is still wrong today and that which was right 300 years ago is still right today.

You mean like slavery, rape, genocide?
DanneJeRusse
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11/21/2014 10:20:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 7:24:54 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:

The only possible way for atheists to have morals is for them to believe something to be right or wrong. But there is no solid foundation for their belief that something is right or wrong, and they (or later generations) can simply redefine what they believe to be right and wrong. This is the reason that I say that eventually incest and bestiality will be allowed in the United States.

Yes, those damn, ignorant, slack-jawed, dim-witted atheists, just can't seem to get society to change the laws so they can sleep with their sisters and their sheep, hopefully at the same time. A-hyuk.

A theist can change what he believes to be right and wrong as well, but because he believes in a God who has clearly defined right and wrong, changing what they believe to be right and wrong ultimately changes nothing, because that which was wrong 300 years ago is still wrong today and that which was right 300 years ago is still right today.

Yes, and Christians continue to fill prisons all over the country. Maybe they didn't get the memo.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth