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Spirit of Man

Skepticalone
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11/21/2014 10:54:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/21/2014 9:33:16 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
http://www.identificationtruths.com...

http://www.heavendwellers.com...

http://groveonline.files.wordpress.com...

Nice graphics, but they are unsupported assertions.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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11/21/2014 5:20:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/21/2014 10:54:15 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/21/2014 9:33:16 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
http://www.identificationtruths.com...

http://www.heavendwellers.com...

http://groveonline.files.wordpress.com...

Nice graphics, but they are unsupported assertions.

Unsupported? sure maybe by science but certainly not "unsupported". And for me it's not an assertion, I actually believe it to be true and testify that it is truth. To me it is a fact, it is not without warrant or reason.
ThinkFirst
Posts: 1,391
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11/21/2014 6:57:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/21/2014 5:20:20 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 11/21/2014 10:54:15 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/21/2014 9:33:16 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
http://www.identificationtruths.com...

http://www.heavendwellers.com...

http://groveonline.files.wordpress.com...

Nice graphics, but they are unsupported assertions.

Unsupported? sure maybe by science but certainly not "unsupported". And for me it's not an assertion, I actually believe it to be true and testify that it is truth. To me it is a fact, it is not without warrant or reason.

But it IS entirely without RATIONAL merit or support.
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,090
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11/21/2014 10:21:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/21/2014 6:57:57 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 11/21/2014 5:20:20 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 11/21/2014 10:54:15 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/21/2014 9:33:16 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
http://www.identificationtruths.com...

http://www.heavendwellers.com...

http://groveonline.files.wordpress.com...

Nice graphics, but they are unsupported assertions.

Unsupported? sure maybe by science but certainly not "unsupported". And for me it's not an assertion, I actually believe it to be true and testify that it is truth. To me it is a fact, it is not without warrant or reason.

But it IS entirely without RATIONAL merit or support.

+1
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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11/22/2014 9:04:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/21/2014 6:57:57 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 11/21/2014 5:20:20 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 11/21/2014 10:54:15 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/21/2014 9:33:16 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
http://www.identificationtruths.com...

http://www.heavendwellers.com...

http://groveonline.files.wordpress.com...

Nice graphics, but they are unsupported assertions.

Unsupported? sure maybe by science but certainly not "unsupported". And for me it's not an assertion, I actually believe it to be true and testify that it is truth. To me it is a fact, it is not without warrant or reason.

But it IS entirely without RATIONAL merit or support.

Yes I'm well aware of what Atheists think, if that's what you'd like to call it. Obviously I have reasons WITH rational merit or else I wouldn't post it, but you're gonna have to get used to coming out of your little atheist bubble when discussing theistic beliefs. This is not the science forum, welcome to the spiritual (religious forum).
ThinkFirst
Posts: 1,391
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11/22/2014 11:36:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/22/2014 9:04:29 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 11/21/2014 6:57:57 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 11/21/2014 5:20:20 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 11/21/2014 10:54:15 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/21/2014 9:33:16 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
http://www.identificationtruths.com...

http://www.heavendwellers.com...

http://groveonline.files.wordpress.com...

Nice graphics, but they are unsupported assertions.

Unsupported? sure maybe by science but certainly not "unsupported". And for me it's not an assertion, I actually believe it to be true and testify that it is truth. To me it is a fact, it is not without warrant or reason.

But it IS entirely without RATIONAL merit or support.

Yes I'm well aware of what Atheists think, if that's what you'd like to call it. Obviously I have reasons WITH rational merit or else I wouldn't post it, but you're gonna have to get used to coming out of your little atheist bubble when discussing theistic beliefs. This is not the science forum, welcome to the spiritual (religious forum).

It's not what I think. It's what I believe. You see, I can't prove anything, either way. The fact of the matter, however, is that neither can you. The difference is that there is ZERO evidence supporting your belief, and I have the absolute absence of any indication of the existence of any "spiritual" realm supporting mine.You're right when you state that it's not the science forum. The science forum doesn't have to sift through a mountain of Bull$hit offered as "testimony." Pretty graphics are not evidence. They don't even qualify as an hypothesis. You have a LONG way to go before you arrive at "theory." You ask that we accept testimony as evidence. Our answer is quite simple: No.
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
MEK
Posts: 253
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11/23/2014 12:44:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/22/2014 9:04:29 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:

Yes I'm well aware of what Atheists think, if that's what you'd like to call it. Obviously I have reasons WITH rational merit or else I wouldn't post it, but you're gonna have to get used to coming out of your little atheist bubble when discussing theistic beliefs. This is not the science forum, welcome to the spiritual (religious forum).

If you were "well aware" of what we thought then you wouldn't have started this post. What, exactly, are you positing anyway besides championing a few metaphysical slides with pretty colors?

"This is not a science forum...." Not exactly, but we need science to keep the religious nonsense at a minimum.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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11/25/2014 1:43:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/22/2014 11:36:31 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 11/22/2014 9:04:29 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 11/21/2014 6:57:57 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 11/21/2014 5:20:20 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 11/21/2014 10:54:15 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/21/2014 9:33:16 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
http://www.identificationtruths.com...

http://www.heavendwellers.com...

http://groveonline.files.wordpress.com...

Nice graphics, but they are unsupported assertions.

Unsupported? sure maybe by science but certainly not "unsupported". And for me it's not an assertion, I actually believe it to be true and testify that it is truth. To me it is a fact, it is not without warrant or reason.

But it IS entirely without RATIONAL merit or support.

Yes I'm well aware of what Atheists think, if that's what you'd like to call it. Obviously I have reasons WITH rational merit or else I wouldn't post it, but you're gonna have to get used to coming out of your little atheist bubble when discussing theistic beliefs. This is not the science forum, welcome to the spiritual (religious forum).

It's not what I think. It's what I believe. You see, I can't prove anything, either way. The fact of the matter, however, is that neither can you. The difference is that there is ZERO evidence supporting your belief, and I have the absolute absence of any indication of the existence of any "spiritual" realm supporting mine.You're right when you state that it's not the science forum. The science forum doesn't have to sift through a mountain of Bull$hit offered as "testimony." Pretty graphics are not evidence. They don't even qualify as an hypothesis. You have a LONG way to go before you arrive at "theory." You ask that we accept testimony as evidence. Our answer is quite simple: No.

No, I haven't asked you for a single thing, and I never offered the graphics as evidence. The only thing I ask of you is to stop evaluating everything of a spiritual nature through the physical, in other words look a little further than science when discussing religion and stop telling me what I believe and what "evidence" I don't have other wise you might as well stop commenting. By demanding physical evidence for every single topic not only do you limit your own knowledge but you are arguing from an ignorant position regarding theistic beliefs, you're going to continue to get the same answers and responses by being unwilling to move from your worldview and step a way for even a second.

And what is this mountain of bullsh1t I offered? I'd like to know what this is because if you are shocked that a Christian actually believes they have a spirit it's not me that has a "long way", it's you.
However it does not surprise me, all one has to do is read your profile to realize your only intention is to destroy religion, well good luck with your mission sir I hope it's worth it to you.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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11/25/2014 1:46:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/23/2014 12:44:27 AM, MEK wrote:
At 11/22/2014 9:04:29 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:

Yes I'm well aware of what Atheists think, if that's what you'd like to call it. Obviously I have reasons WITH rational merit or else I wouldn't post it, but you're gonna have to get used to coming out of your little atheist bubble when discussing theistic beliefs. This is not the science forum, welcome to the spiritual (religious forum).

If you were "well aware" of what we thought then you wouldn't have started this post. What, exactly, are you positing anyway besides championing a few metaphysical slides with pretty colors?

"This is not a science forum...." Not exactly, but we need science to keep the religious nonsense at a minimum.

And what "religious nonsense" is this? What does "science" have to do with the knowledge of God? the last I checked they know nothing, correct? And why do you comment on my threads if it's nonsense...
ThinkFirst
Posts: 1,391
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11/25/2014 2:36:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/25/2014 1:43:50 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 11/22/2014 11:36:31 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 11/22/2014 9:04:29 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 11/21/2014 6:57:57 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 11/21/2014 5:20:20 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 11/21/2014 10:54:15 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/21/2014 9:33:16 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
http://www.identificationtruths.com...

http://www.heavendwellers.com...

http://groveonline.files.wordpress.com...

Nice graphics, but they are unsupported assertions.

Unsupported? sure maybe by science but certainly not "unsupported". And for me it's not an assertion, I actually believe it to be true and testify that it is truth. To me it is a fact, it is not without warrant or reason.

But it IS entirely without RATIONAL merit or support.

Yes I'm well aware of what Atheists think, if that's what you'd like to call it. Obviously I have reasons WITH rational merit or else I wouldn't post it, but you're gonna have to get used to coming out of your little atheist bubble when discussing theistic beliefs. This is not the science forum, welcome to the spiritual (religious forum).

It's not what I think. It's what I believe. You see, I can't prove anything, either way. The fact of the matter, however, is that neither can you. The difference is that there is ZERO evidence supporting your belief, and I have the absolute absence of any indication of the existence of any "spiritual" realm supporting mine.You're right when you state that it's not the science forum. The science forum doesn't have to sift through a mountain of Bull$hit offered as "testimony." Pretty graphics are not evidence. They don't even qualify as an hypothesis. You have a LONG way to go before you arrive at "theory." You ask that we accept testimony as evidence. Our answer is quite simple: No.

No, I haven't asked you for a single thing, and I never offered the graphics as evidence. The only thing I ask of you is to stop evaluating everything of a spiritual nature through the physical, in other words look a little further than science when discussing religion and stop telling me what I believe and what "evidence" I don't have other wise you might as well stop commenting.

But the spiritual is something that you assert is there, and it has never been shown. You want me to simply accept that you believe it? Sure. I can do that. But if you're going to post "spiritual" assertions and anticipate that they not be challenged, you're sadly mistaken. Many of us don't accept concepts of a "spiritual" nature, and your assertions that some special method of detection of said realm is required go against much of what appears rational in our world.

By demanding physical evidence for every single topic not only do you limit your own knowledge but you are arguing from an ignorant position regarding theistic beliefs, you're going to continue to get the same answers and responses by being unwilling to move from your worldview and step a way for even a second.

It's not an ignorant position regarding theistic beliefs, it's a rejection of theistic beliefs. Not believing something that does not exist does not make one ignorant. While you are so busy brow-beating people that can't step away from their "worldview" (I hate that word), have you stepped away long enough to observe how we non-believers might receive that which seems ridiculous? Do you really expect us to accept your "experiences" as valid? You make exorbitant assertions and claims of "knowledge" of things that CANNOT be "known," and then turn around and criticize us for not using YOUR way of thinking about things. It is precisely the way we consider things that allow us to come to conclusions, either pro or con. We are con because what you claim makes no sense, and has no basis in fact or reality. Our "worldview" is rational, and based in reality. Your worldview is based on faith, and does not reconcile with the things we have learned about the physical universe around us.

And what is this mountain of bullsh1t I offered? I'd like to know what this is because if you are shocked that a Christian actually believes they have a spirit it's not me that has a "long way", it's you.

Anything out of the bible is bull$hit. Without these "holy" manuscripts, there is NOTHING to tie humanity to the beliefs therein. The clerics and mystics have been pushing these things that only "special" people can detect, for eons. That one must "think" with the heart (bull$hit)... That one must "feel" with a special, spiritual (nonexistent) sensory perception, held to be ABOVE "mere reality." Alchemy, Astrology, Numerology, palm reading, tarot cards, voodoo, hudu, , etc. All of these practices of "spiritual" nature claim to have some special insight into a world they CLAIM exists, and make the inference that those who don't believe are of "lesser" enlightenment. They are wrong, and most of them are charlatans. Some actually believe they are able to (somehow) perceive things "otherworldly," but they are in a very small minority.

However it does not surprise me, all one has to do is read your profile to realize your only intention is to destroy religion, well good luck with your mission sir I hope it's worth it to you.

It is worth it, to me... If religion was eradicated from this planet, people would turn to a more intelligent source for their knowledge: the scientific community. Believing that one can turn a cracker into thousands of crackers will not feed a population on the verge of overwhelming its planet. Believing in specters will do nothing to clean the atmosphere our reckless use of fossil fuels has damaged. A "feeling" or "sensation" of something "spiritual" has proven to be absolutely useless in the battle against microorganisms that seek to destroy us all. Medicine is not enhanced by prayer (in the slightest). In short, "spiritual" beliefs do more to damage the human mind, than to "expand" it. All the sniveling in the world, complaining about how we won't look at this world the way YOU want us to isn't going to help. You look at the world the way you want to. We'll look at it the way we want to. But consider:

Science:

Put a man on the moon.
Has explored space and our neighboring bodies.
Has helped us overcome polio, measles, rubella, etc. -- All things that the "spiritual" believed were curses from "god."
Discovered microorganisms.
Discoverd antibiotics.
Created the internal combustion engine.
Created the X-Ray machine.
Developed lasers that aid us, daily.
Can more accurately predict weather patterns.
Can detect storms at sea, and give advance warning to those in danger.
Enabled flight, allowing worldwide travel.
Has harnessed the power to lay roads over/across mountains.
Invented conveniences like "super glue," and hydraulics.

The list above is EXTREMELY abbreviated...

What has religion accomplished, that has benefited humans?

http://i.imgur.com...
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
MEK
Posts: 253
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11/25/2014 9:05:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/25/2014 1:46:56 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:

"This is not a science forum...." Not exactly, but we need science to keep the religious nonsense at a minimum.

And what "religious nonsense" is this? What does "science" have to do with the knowledge of God? the last I checked they know nothing, correct? And why do you comment on my threads if it's nonsense...

Ok, well you haven't addressed my question, what exactly are you positing?

What has science to do with "god"? If you mean the idea of "god" - nothing. If you mean tying to describe a real, interactive entity - everything.

I never said your post was "nonsense". I was referring to your obvious religious slide show which IS nonsense.

What I comment on depends on the level of intelligence I perceive from the post. In your case - that level is beginning to waver.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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11/27/2014 7:32:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/25/2014 2:36:46 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 11/25/2014 1:43:50 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 11/22/2014 11:36:31 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 11/22/2014 9:04:29 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 11/21/2014 6:57:57 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 11/21/2014 5:20:20 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 11/21/2014 10:54:15 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/21/2014 9:33:16 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
http://www.identificationtruths.com...

http://www.heavendwellers.com...

http://groveonline.files.wordpress.com...

Nice graphics, but they are unsupported assertions.

Unsupported? sure maybe by science but certainly not "unsupported". And for me it's not an assertion, I actually believe it to be true and testify that it is truth. To me it is a fact, it is not without warrant or reason.

But it IS entirely without RATIONAL merit or support.

Yes I'm well aware of what Atheists think, if that's what you'd like to call it. Obviously I have reasons WITH rational merit or else I wouldn't post it, but you're gonna have to get used to coming out of your little atheist bubble when discussing theistic beliefs. This is not the science forum, welcome to the spiritual (religious forum).

It's not what I think. It's what I believe. You see, I can't prove anything, either way. The fact of the matter, however, is that neither can you. The difference is that there is ZERO evidence supporting your belief, and I have the absolute absence of any indication of the existence of any "spiritual" realm supporting mine.You're right when you state that it's not the science forum. The science forum doesn't have to sift through a mountain of Bull$hit offered as "testimony." Pretty graphics are not evidence. They don't even qualify as an hypothesis. You have a LONG way to go before you arrive at "theory." You ask that we accept testimony as evidence. Our answer is quite simple: No.

No, I haven't asked you for a single thing, and I never offered the graphics as evidence. The only thing I ask of you is to stop evaluating everything of a spiritual nature through the physical, in other words look a little further than science when discussing religion and stop telling me what I believe and what "evidence" I don't have other wise you might as well stop commenting.

But the spiritual is something that you assert is there, and it has never been shown. You want me to simply accept that you believe it? Sure. I can do that. But if you're going to post "spiritual" assertions and anticipate that they not be challenged, you're sadly mistaken. Many of us don't accept concepts of a "spiritual" nature, and your assertions that some special method of detection of said realm is required go against much of what appears rational in our world.

By demanding physical evidence for every single topic not only do you limit your own knowledge but you are arguing from an ignorant position regarding theistic beliefs, you're going to continue to get the same answers and responses by being unwilling to move from your worldview and step a way for even a second.

It's not an ignorant position regarding theistic beliefs, it's a rejection of theistic beliefs. Not believing something that does not exist does not make one ignorant. While you are so busy brow-beating people that can't step away from their "worldview" (I hate that word), have you stepped away long enough to observe how we non-believers might receive that which seems ridiculous? Do you really expect us to accept your "experiences" as valid? You make exorbitant assertions and claims of "knowledge" of things that CANNOT be "known," and then turn around and criticize us for not using YOUR way of thinking about things. It is precisely the way we consider things that allow us to come to conclusions, either pro or con. We are con because what you claim makes no sense, and has no basis in fact or reality. Our "worldview" is rational, and based in reality. Your worldview is based on faith, and does not reconcile with the things we have learned about the physical universe around us.

And what is this mountain of bullsh1t I offered? I'd like to know what this is because if you are shocked that a Christian actually believes they have a spirit it's not me that has a "long way", it's you.

Anything out of the bible is bull$hit. Without these "holy" manuscripts, there is NOTHING to tie humanity to the beliefs therein. The clerics and mystics have been pushing these things that only "special" people can detect, for eons. That one must "think" with the heart (bull$hit)... That one must "feel" with a special, spiritual (nonexistent) sensory perception, held to be ABOVE "mere reality." Alchemy, Astrology, Numerology, palm reading, tarot cards, voodoo, hudu, , etc. All of these practices of "spiritual" nature claim to have some special insight into a world they CLAIM exists, and make the inference that those who don't believe are of "lesser" enlightenment. They are wrong, and most of them are charlatans. Some actually believe they are able to (somehow) perceive things "otherworldly," but they are in a very small minority.

However it does not surprise me, all one has to do is read your profile to realize your only intention is to destroy religion, well good luck with your mission sir I hope it's worth it to you.

It is worth it, to me... If religion was eradicated from this planet, people would turn to a more intelligent source for their knowledge: the scientific community. Believing that one can turn a cracker into thousands of crackers will not feed a population on the verge of overwhelming its planet. Believing in specters will do nothing to clean the atmosphere our reckless use of fossil fuels has damaged. A "feeling" or "sensation" of something "spiritual" has proven to be absolutely useless in the battle against microorganisms that seek to destroy us all. Medicine is not enhanced by prayer (in the slightest). In short, "spiritual" beliefs do more to damage the human mind, than to "expand" it. All the sniveling in the world, complaining about how we won't look at this world the way YOU want us to isn't going to help. You look at the world the way you want to. We'll look at it the way we want to. But consider:

Science:

Put a man on the moon.
Has explored space and our neighboring bodies.
Has helped us overcome polio, measles, rubella, etc. -- All things that the "spiritual" believed were curses from "god."
Discovered microorganisms.
Discoverd antibiotics.
Created the internal combustion engine.
Created the X-Ray machine.
Developed lasers that aid us, daily.
Can more accurately predict weather patterns.
Can detect storms at sea, and give advance warning to those in danger.
Enabled flight, allowing worldwide travel.
Has harnessed the power to lay roads over/across mountains.
Invented conveniences like "super glue," and hydraulics.

The list above is EXTREMELY abbreviated...

What has religion accomplished, that has benefited humans?

Christianity has accomplished what it was meant to accomplish, the spiritual truth of reality not science. Thanks for the science lesson, although I didn't need it and why is it so hard for you to separate the two? What we learn from science is directly related to our own efforts, religion (christianity) does not seek to accomplish this, it is the spiritual things and the things that pertain to God and from God.

http://i.imgur.com...
EtrnlVw
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11/27/2014 7:41:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/25/2014 9:05:53 PM, MEK wrote:
At 11/25/2014 1:46:56 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:

"This is not a science forum...." Not exactly, but we need science to keep the religious nonsense at a minimum.

And what "religious nonsense" is this? What does "science" have to do with the knowledge of God? the last I checked they know nothing, correct? And why do you comment on my threads if it's nonsense...

Ok, well you haven't addressed my question, what exactly are you positing?

I'ts just an illustration to assist in the visualization of Christian beliefs, sometimes when someone has something to look at it can be easier to understand the concept, sorry if it does nothing for you, I get bored with the same topics just trying new things :)

What has science to do with "god"? If you mean the idea of "god" - nothing. If you mean tying to describe a real, interactive entity - everything.

And what is Christianity? In your opinion what does the Gospel mean and what is it's purpose in our life? What is the message you get when you read the Gospel?

I never said your post was "nonsense". I was referring to your obvious religious slide show which IS nonsense.

What I comment on depends on the level of intelligence I perceive from the post. In your case - that level is beginning to waver.

Very well.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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11/27/2014 11:14:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/21/2014 9:33:16 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
http://www.identificationtruths.com...

http://www.heavendwellers.com...

http://groveonline.files.wordpress.com...

Here are a few of my written and spoken testimonies to help you understand who we are in the mind of our Creator;

End of Age
http://www.debate.org...

Life after death video;
http://www.debate.org...

The future;
http://www.debate.org...

What is a sinner;
http://www.debate.org...

The gospel of Brad;
http://www.debate.org...

Gospel, Voice of the Lord and Word of the Lord
http://www.debate.org...
MEK
Posts: 253
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11/28/2014 12:17:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/27/2014 7:41:53 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:

I'ts just an illustration to assist in the visualization of Christian beliefs, sometimes when someone has something to look at it can be easier to understand the concept, sorry if it does nothing for you, I get bored with the same topics just trying new things :)

Okay.

And what is Christianity? In your opinion what does the Gospel mean and what is it's purpose in our life? What is the message you get when you read the Gospel?

Christianity is a religious belief system based on the alleged preachings of a Jew named Jesus. There is barely any evidence to support that this person did what the bible said he did or that he even lived. Regardless, I will grant you that a Jew named "Jesus" lived 2000 years ago and was an apocalyptic preacher and may even have been killed by his own peers. This sheds absolutely no light on the idea that he was divine or that his preachings are moral or true. Apropos, the "gospels" mean very little to me except for the few humane passages that require no supernatural interference to accept or adopt.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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11/28/2014 4:35:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 12:17:27 AM, MEK wrote:
At 11/27/2014 7:41:53 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:

I'ts just an illustration to assist in the visualization of Christian beliefs, sometimes when someone has something to look at it can be easier to understand the concept, sorry if it does nothing for you, I get bored with the same topics just trying new things :)

Okay.

And what is Christianity? In your opinion what does the Gospel mean and what is it's purpose in our life? What is the message you get when you read the Gospel?

Christianity is a religious belief system based on the alleged preachings of a Jew named Jesus. There is barely any evidence to support that this person did what the bible said he did or that he even lived. Regardless, I will grant you that a Jew named "Jesus" lived 2000 years ago and was an apocalyptic preacher and may even have been killed by his own peers. This sheds absolutely no light on the idea that he was divine or that his preachings are moral or true. Apropos, the "gospels" mean very little to me except for the few humane passages that require no supernatural interference to accept or adopt.

Yes of course, I was hoping you would have given me a more Christian perspective, I just want to see what you would see not being an Atheist lol. Do you think you could drop the atheist opinions for a second? Like I get that you believe it's phony and whatever but I would like to know what you feel about the message and how you think it pertains to us. What is it Jesus wants? What does He desire?
Do you think you could entertain me with that? I'm gonna assume you were most likely raised some kind of Christian (correct me if I'm wrong) I know it might be dumb, just lay it out however you want.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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11/28/2014 4:49:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/21/2014 10:54:15 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/21/2014 9:33:16 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
http://www.identificationtruths.com...

http://www.heavendwellers.com...

http://groveonline.files.wordpress.com...

Nice graphics, but they are unsupported assertions.

The soul that sins shall surely die. Is this an unsupported assertion?
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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11/28/2014 4:56:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/21/2014 5:20:20 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 11/21/2014 10:54:15 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/21/2014 9:33:16 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
http://www.identificationtruths.com...

http://www.heavendwellers.com...

http://groveonline.files.wordpress.com...

Nice graphics, but they are unsupported assertions.

Unsupported? sure maybe by science but certainly not "unsupported". And for me it's not an assertion, I actually believe it to be true and testify that it is truth. To me it is a fact, it is not without warrant or reason.

The scorner's own life testifies to the thing he is trying to deny.......that he is made in the image of God. People generally simply hate the idea that God has the right to rule over them and they should be thankful to Him for He is good and He is merciful.

You are challenging the naturalist's hope that they and their body are one and the same with no spirt, so that in their false hope they believe they will cease to exist as conscious persons after the decease of their bodies, and not have to be concerned about God ruling against them.
Skepticalone
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11/28/2014 5:04:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 4:49:29 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 11/21/2014 10:54:15 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/21/2014 9:33:16 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
http://www.identificationtruths.com...

http://www.heavendwellers.com...

http://groveonline.files.wordpress.com...

Nice graphics, but they are unsupported assertions.

The soul that sins shall surely die. Is this an unsupported assertion?

Have you ever seen a soul die? Yes, it is an unsupported assertion.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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11/28/2014 5:04:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
if you believe you are nothing but a chemical fizz caused by chance, of course you have to reject the idea that your body and soul are two differing yet united expressions of you. Of course, you must deny that you are a spirt in a body who is a soul. Your only hope is death when you think you are not made in God's image, and if you knew the fire which is the second death, you would change your mind about being willing to give account of yourself in every moment of your time to God. I feel sorry for everybody, but for Christians in a different way than for lost people. For Christians, true born again children of God, who have received Jesus Christ as their saviour and are indwelt by Him in the person of His Holy Spirit, I have a joy with and for them mixed with the sorrow for the sufferings we must endure on this side of glory. For lost people, I have nothing but pity because if they don't get saved, they have to endure the suffering in this world and then suffer in the Lake of Fire which they genearlly insist they are not bad enough to be left in like burning garbage.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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11/28/2014 5:17:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 5:04:40 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
if you believe you are nothing but a chemical fizz caused by chance, of course you have to reject the idea that your body and soul are two differing yet united expressions of you. Of course, you must deny that you are a spirt in a body who is a soul. Your only hope is death when you think you are not made in God's image, and if you knew the fire which is the second death, you would change your mind about being willing to give account of yourself in every moment of your time to God. I feel sorry for everybody, but for Christians in a different way than for lost people. For Christians, true born again children of God, who have received Jesus Christ as their saviour and are indwelt by Him in the person of His Holy Spirit, I have a joy with and for them mixed with the sorrow for the sufferings we must endure on this side of glory. For lost people, I have nothing but pity because if they don't get saved, they have to endure the suffering in this world and then suffer in the Lake of Fire which they genearlly insist they are not bad enough to be left in like burning garbage.

Most Christians are heathens who have no idea who our invisible Creator is. They believe in a false deity named Jesus, who was only an illusion called a saint that God used to testify to His invisible Word ( His knowledge ). From the testimonies of us saints, you can learn the past, present and future. You will also learn how God formed Christianity from His plan called the beast to teach His people how to build things with their human hands like He did with the Romans. God uses these hand built objects as analogies to teach us saints that we're created invisible and formed into illusions called flesh to make us believe that we're real. His fire will prove that we're only illusions.
ThinkFirst
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11/29/2014 12:51:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/27/2014 7:32:14 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:

Science:

Put a man on the moon.
Has explored space and our neighboring bodies.
Has helped us overcome polio, measles, rubella, etc. -- All things that the "spiritual" believed were curses from "god."
Discovered microorganisms.
Discoverd antibiotics.
Created the internal combustion engine.
Created the X-Ray machine.
Developed lasers that aid us, daily.
Can more accurately predict weather patterns.
Can detect storms at sea, and give advance warning to those in danger.
Enabled flight, allowing worldwide travel.
Has harnessed the power to lay roads over/across mountains.
Invented conveniences like "super glue," and hydraulics.

The list above is EXTREMELY abbreviated...

What has religion accomplished, that has benefited humans?

Christianity has accomplished what it was meant to accomplish, the spiritual truth of reality not science.

You assume it exists. I assume it does not.

Thanks for the science lesson, although I didn't need it and why is it so hard for you to separate the two?

Because science gives us things that are useful. "Spirituality" gives us nothing but blind assertions and intellectual stunting. Science is worth applying. "Spiritual truth" is meaningless.

What we learn from science is directly related to our own efforts, religion (christianity) does not seek to accomplish this, it is the spiritual things and the things that pertain to God and from God.

Again, meaningless and useless.

http://i.imgur.com...
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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11/29/2014 1:07:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 5:04:40 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
if you believe you are nothing but a chemical fizz caused by chance, of course you have to reject the idea that your body and soul are two differing yet united expressions of you. Of course, you must deny that you are a spirt in a body who is a soul. Your only hope is death when you think you are not made in God's image, and if you knew the fire which is the second death, you would change your mind about being willing to give account of yourself in every moment of your time to God. I feel sorry for everybody, but for Christians in a different way than for lost people. For Christians, true born again children of God, who have received Jesus Christ as their saviour and are indwelt by Him in the person of His Holy Spirit, I have a joy with and for them mixed with the sorrow for the sufferings we must endure on this side of glory. For lost people, I have nothing but pity because if they don't get saved, they have to endure the suffering in this world and then suffer in the Lake of Fire which they genearlly insist they are not bad enough to be left in like burning garbage.

If heaven is to be filled with the likes of you, no intelligent person would choose it as a destination.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MEK
Posts: 253
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11/29/2014 1:26:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 4:35:48 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:

Yes of course, I was hoping you would have given me a more Christian perspective, I just want to see what you would see not being an Atheist lol. Do you think you could drop the atheist opinions for a second? Like I get that you believe it's phony and whatever but I would like to know what you feel about the message and how you think it pertains to us. What is it Jesus wants? What does He desire?
Do you think you could entertain me with that? I'm gonna assume you were most likely raised some kind of Christian (correct me if I'm wrong) I know it might be dumb, just lay it out however you want.

I am really not sure what different kind of perspective I can offer you. You are correct, in that I have lived on both sides of faith (raised catholic and now an atheist or anti-theist). I would love to "entertain" or flush out an idea with you but I simply cannot agree to believe in something in which I have grown to disbelieve.

If you are to look at merely the surface of cherry picked passages of the new testament, I can quite easily see how one can assert that Jesus was a man of peace and preached unconditional love for god (the father) and others. But this is part of the problem as it does not represent the complete picture. The deeper message of Christ was that he believed he was going to return within 40-50 years of his death as he most likely believed the end of the world was near. This failed apocalypse speaks volumes about his self proclaimed disposition. In this light, he preached things like,"give no thought for the morrow" and give up thrift, family, everything and just follow me. I don't believe these instructions are very useful or morally sound. Moreover, there are more disturbing passages in which Jesus instructs an individual be brought before him and killed (Luke 19:27).

What became clear to me was the more I read and questioned the bible, the more I realized that this book is a man made construct illustrating thousands of years of cultural adaptations and that most of the figures in the bible are more likely fictitious, or at best, greatly embellished.

I appreciate that you want to discuss perhaps some of the benign and beautiful stories (parables) written in the new testament as coming from Jesus but this would be inchoate and disingenuous on my part and more importantly, I think we as a civilization do not need Bronze and Iron age stories to help us live a moral and ethical life.
It took hard work for us to climb down out of the trees, walk upright, develop relationships, civilizations and for the most part a functional world. In order to continue to write this story of what it means to be human - we need to allow ourselves to move past the doctrines that guided us in our infancy and adopt those ideas which will be pivotal for our continued growth as a species and forming solidarity with each other.
bulproof
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11/29/2014 1:31:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/29/2014 1:26:58 AM, MEK wrote:
At 11/28/2014 4:35:48 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:

Yes of course, I was hoping you would have given me a more Christian perspective, I just want to see what you would see not being an Atheist lol. Do you think you could drop the atheist opinions for a second? Like I get that you believe it's phony and whatever but I would like to know what you feel about the message and how you think it pertains to us. What is it Jesus wants? What does He desire?
Do you think you could entertain me with that? I'm gonna assume you were most likely raised some kind of Christian (correct me if I'm wrong) I know it might be dumb, just lay it out however you want.

I am really not sure what different kind of perspective I can offer you. You are correct, in that I have lived on both sides of faith (raised catholic and now an atheist or anti-theist). I would love to "entertain" or flush out an idea with you but I simply cannot agree to believe in something in which I have grown to disbelieve.

If you are to look at merely the surface of cherry picked passages of the new testament, I can quite easily see how one can assert that Jesus was a man of peace and preached unconditional love for god (the father) and others. But this is part of the problem as it does not represent the complete picture. The deeper message of Christ was that he believed he was going to return within 40-50 years of his death as he most likely believed the end of the world was near. This failed apocalypse speaks volumes about his self proclaimed disposition. In this light, he preached things like,"give no thought for the morrow" and give up thrift, family, everything and just follow me. I don't believe these instructions are very useful or morally sound. Moreover, there are more disturbing passages in which Jesus instructs an individual be brought before him and killed (Luke 19:27).

What became clear to me was the more I read and questioned the bible, the more I realized that this book is a man made construct illustrating thousands of years of cultural adaptations and that most of the figures in the bible are more likely fictitious, or at best, greatly embellished.

I appreciate that you want to discuss perhaps some of the benign and beautiful stories (parables) written in the new testament as coming from Jesus but this would be inchoate and disingenuous on my part and more importantly, I think we as a civilization do not need Bronze and Iron age stories to help us live a moral and ethical life.
It took hard work for us to climb down out of the trees, walk upright, develop relationships, civilizations and for the most part a functional world. In order to continue to write this story of what it means to be human - we need to allow ourselves to move past the doctrines that guided us in our infancy and adopt those ideas which will be pivotal for our continued growth as a species and forming solidarity with each other.
+1
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
EtrnlVw
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11/29/2014 9:38:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/29/2014 1:26:58 AM, MEK wrote:
At 11/28/2014 4:35:48 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:

Yes of course, I was hoping you would have given me a more Christian perspective, I just want to see what you would see not being an Atheist lol. Do you think you could drop the atheist opinions for a second? Like I get that you believe it's phony and whatever but I would like to know what you feel about the message and how you think it pertains to us. What is it Jesus wants? What does He desire?
Do you think you could entertain me with that? I'm gonna assume you were most likely raised some kind of Christian (correct me if I'm wrong) I know it might be dumb, just lay it out however you want.

I am really not sure what different kind of perspective I can offer you. You are correct, in that I have lived on both sides of faith (raised catholic and now an atheist or anti-theist). I would love to "entertain" or flush out an idea with you but I simply cannot agree to believe in something in which I have grown to disbelieve.

If you are to look at merely the surface of cherry picked passages of the new testament, I can quite easily see how one can assert that Jesus was a man of peace and preached unconditional love for god (the father) and others. But this is part of the problem as it does not represent the complete picture. The deeper message of Christ was that he believed he was going to return within 40-50 years of his death as he most likely believed the end of the world was near. This failed apocalypse speaks volumes about his self proclaimed disposition. In this light, he preached things like,"give no thought for the morrow" and give up thrift, family, everything and just follow me. I don't believe these instructions are very useful or morally sound. Moreover, there are more disturbing passages in which Jesus instructs an individual be brought before him and killed (Luke 19:27).

Well for one the "apocalypse" theory is something that may be up for debate, in other words there are more than one understanding of it.
Don't you think that Jesus would have carried out that statement in Luke if that's what He really intended? especially in light of the rest of His teaching?
I really wasn't wanting to cherry pick anything, just wanted to see your thoughts and feelings of the message of the Gospel without the atheist propaganda, and I would have liked to discuss some of the aspects, but I understand.

What became clear to me was the more I read and questioned the bible, the more I realized that this book is a man made construct illustrating thousands of years of cultural adaptations and that most of the figures in the bible are more likely fictitious, or at best, greatly embellished.

Yes, I know what Atheists believe about it.

I appreciate that you want to discuss perhaps some of the benign and beautiful stories (parables) written in the new testament as coming from Jesus but this would be inchoate and disingenuous on my part and more importantly, I think we as a civilization do not need Bronze and Iron age stories to help us live a moral and ethical life.

We are not in need of a moral and ethical life if one is moral and ethical, we need God, what we need and what the scripture intends is to bring God to man, provide an avenue for belief, the moral and ethical stuff are just guidelines because as we very well know some people need it lol. There are some real wackos out there.

It took hard work for us to climb down out of the trees, walk upright, develop relationships, civilizations and for the most part a functional world. In order to continue to write this story of what it means to be human - we need to allow ourselves to move past the doctrines that guided us in our infancy and adopt those ideas which will be pivotal for our continued growth as a species and forming solidarity with each other.

Lol nice picture of evolution and I can see how you would assume religious beliefs are just a part of the progression, but how is the concept of God going to restrict growth? Why would we need to evolve away from God, it doesn't make much sense. God is not inhibiting our growth.
EtrnlVw
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11/29/2014 9:43:35 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/29/2014 12:51:32 AM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 11/27/2014 7:32:14 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:

Science:

Put a man on the moon.
Has explored space and our neighboring bodies.
Has helped us overcome polio, measles, rubella, etc. -- All things that the "spiritual" believed were curses from "god."
Discovered microorganisms.
Discoverd antibiotics.
Created the internal combustion engine.
Created the X-Ray machine.
Developed lasers that aid us, daily.
Can more accurately predict weather patterns.
Can detect storms at sea, and give advance warning to those in danger.
Enabled flight, allowing worldwide travel.
Has harnessed the power to lay roads over/across mountains.
Invented conveniences like "super glue," and hydraulics.

The list above is EXTREMELY abbreviated...

What has religion accomplished, that has benefited humans?

Christianity has accomplished what it was meant to accomplish, the spiritual truth of reality not science.

You assume it exists. I assume it does not.

My beliefs are not based on assumptions, I've explained this many times. I don't have to assume it exists it's part of my life and I have experienced it, but yes it's you who has to assume.

Thanks for the science lesson, although I didn't need it and why is it so hard for you to separate the two?

Because science gives us things that are useful. "Spirituality" gives us nothing but blind assertions and intellectual stunting. Science is worth applying. "Spiritual truth" is meaningless.

Science is great, I love science and science is not my enemy, but it's terrible concerning spiritual truth, not only terrible but incapable. Spiritual truth is meaningless to you because you do not see it, believe it or pursue it.

What we learn from science is directly related to our own efforts, religion (christianity) does not seek to accomplish this, it is the spiritual things and the things that pertain to God and from God.

Again, meaningless and useless.

Why? but do you understand it?

http://i.imgur.com...
Thanksfornotraping
Posts: 238
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11/29/2014 9:47:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/21/2014 9:33:16 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
http://www.identificationtruths.com...

http://www.heavendwellers.com...

http://groveonline.files.wordpress.com...

Why does your God have a white beard and hair? Why doesn't he use haircare for men and lighten it to a nice shade of brown so as to appeal to younger women, since he's still single?
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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11/29/2014 9:48:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/29/2014 9:47:00 AM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 11/21/2014 9:33:16 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
http://www.identificationtruths.com...

http://www.heavendwellers.com...

http://groveonline.files.wordpress.com...

Why does your God have a white beard and hair? Why doesn't he use haircare for men and lighten it to a nice shade of brown so as to appeal to younger women, since he's still single?

Because He's an old fart...