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born into rejection and death

DPMartin
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11/24/2014 9:51:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
In the Christian context:

We are born into a world of rejection and condemned to death by default. One must earn acceptance of the world or he is, rejected and condemned by the world that is condemned already. Because it"s the place of rejection and condemnation by default. Hence one is to seek the acceptance of a condemned world, or a world condemned.

In the Kingdom of Heaven one is born into acceptance and has promise of eternal life in which there is no such thing as condemnation.

Why?

We are born into the life given us through Adam and Eve who were made first into acceptance of God"s pleasure and Presence and had the promise or access to eternal life via the Tree of Life. Then rejected that by placing their belief and trust in words of another source about God and His Word. Hence the Life died to that day. Now all sons of man are born into this life of rejection and condemnation to death. Again why? God"s Word is Life and gives Life. Reject the Word of God and one rejects the Life given through the Word of God that is the will of God for that which it is given to, in this case men.

If one reserves the right to reject his Maker, then he hasn"t done anything that hasn"t been done for him already via being born into the sons of man. His own rejection of God and God"s Word doesn"t count or is of no effect one way or the other. And the proof of that is he is condemned to death already. But repentance to the acceptance into the Kingdom of Heaven in the name of Jesus Christ is the only thing that can change one"s state of rejection and condemnation to death.
silverxseed
Posts: 64
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11/24/2014 10:14:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 9:51:12 AM, DPMartin wrote:
In the Christian context:

We are born into a world of rejection and condemned to death by default. One must earn acceptance of the world or he is, rejected and condemned by the world that is condemned already. Because it"s the place of rejection and condemnation by default. Hence one is to seek the acceptance of a condemned world, or a world condemned.

In the Kingdom of Heaven one is born into acceptance and has promise of eternal life in which there is no such thing as condemnation.

Why?

We are born into the life given us through Adam and Eve who were made first into acceptance of God"s pleasure and Presence and had the promise or access to eternal life via the Tree of Life. Then rejected that by placing their belief and trust in words of another source about God and His Word. Hence the Life died to that day. Now all sons of man are born into this life of rejection and condemnation to death. Again why? God"s Word is Life and gives Life. Reject the Word of God and one rejects the Life given through the Word of God that is the will of God for that which it is given to, in this case men.


If one reserves the right to reject his Maker, then he hasn"t done anything that hasn"t been done for him already via being born into the sons of man. His own rejection of God and God"s Word doesn"t count or is of no effect one way or the other. And the proof of that is he is condemned to death already. But repentance to the acceptance into the Kingdom of Heaven in the name of Jesus Christ is the only thing that can change one"s state of rejection and condemnation to death.

I call bs. Pretending that I believe that the Christian god is the creator of the univers and all life then I can safely posit that God created the rules of the universe. After all, he was the cause for everything(read: all creation), no? Apparently it is one of the rules of the universe that the act of Adam and Eve "betraying" god permanently stains all humanity since that point, all humans are now "born into sin". But why? Surely this is nonsensical as a far descendant of this ancient pair will have no bearing on what actions they take due to the actions of their ancestors?(i.e. If your great grandfather was a serial killer that in no way makes you a murderer.) It doesn't have to be that the child is blamed for the sins of their father but God set it up that way. If God is the master of the universe and the ultimate arbiter of morality then it stands to reason that it is by God's will that all humanity is born into sin and therefore doomed from their moment of birth. Unless thy how to him, of course. Of course, there is no other reason why this would stand. Surely if God did not want all humanity to be born doomed he could have simply made it so that Adam and Eve's actions didn't ring through the entire species, correct?
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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11/24/2014 11:20:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 10:14:10 AM, silverxseed wrote:
At 11/24/2014 9:51:12 AM, DPMartin wrote:
In the Christian context:

We are born into a world of rejection and condemned to death by default. One must earn acceptance of the world or he is, rejected and condemned by the world that is condemned already. Because it"s the place of rejection and condemnation by default. Hence one is to seek the acceptance of a condemned world, or a world condemned.

In the Kingdom of Heaven one is born into acceptance and has promise of eternal life in which there is no such thing as condemnation.

Why?

We are born into the life given us through Adam and Eve who were made first into acceptance of God"s pleasure and Presence and had the promise or access to eternal life via the Tree of Life. Then rejected that by placing their belief and trust in words of another source about God and His Word. Hence the Life died to that day. Now all sons of man are born into this life of rejection and condemnation to death. Again why? God"s Word is Life and gives Life. Reject the Word of God and one rejects the Life given through the Word of God that is the will of God for that which it is given to, in this case men.


If one reserves the right to reject his Maker, then he hasn"t done anything that hasn"t been done for him already via being born into the sons of man. His own rejection of God and God"s Word doesn"t count or is of no effect one way or the other. And the proof of that is he is condemned to death already. But repentance to the acceptance into the Kingdom of Heaven in the name of Jesus Christ is the only thing that can change one"s state of rejection and condemnation to death.

I call bs. Pretending that I believe that the Christian god is the creator of the univers and all life then I can safely posit that God created the rules of the universe. After all, he was the cause for everything(read: all creation), no? Apparently it is one of the rules of the universe that the act of Adam and Eve "betraying" god permanently stains all humanity since that point, all humans are now "born into sin". But why? Surely this is nonsensical as a far descendant of this ancient pair will have no bearing on what actions they take due to the actions of their ancestors?(i.e. If your great grandfather was a serial killer that in no way makes you a murderer.) It doesn't have to be that the child is blamed for the sins of their father but God set it up that way. If God is the master of the universe and the ultimate arbiter of morality then it stands to reason that it is by God's will that all humanity is born into sin and therefore doomed from their moment of birth. Unless thy how to him, of course. Of course, there is no other reason why this would stand. Surely if God did not want all humanity to be born doomed he could have simply made it so that Adam and Eve's actions didn't ring through the entire species, correct?

Ah, last I checked, if one is born of a dog one has the traits of a dog and the life of the dog given through a dog that was given the life of a dog. If one is born of a pig one has the traits of a pig and the life of the pig given though a pig that was given the life of a pig. What reasoning do you have, in that doesn"t apply to man? And FYI born into sin is a born into separation from God (amongst other theological thinking which doesn"t apply here), and you can verify that because you have been born of man, and are not in any true awareness of a Presence of God.

Also murder doesn"t make murder, murder is a chosen action "dust to dust" in the separation from God is the life that they had and passed on, what one chooses to do in that life, is on the chooser. But apparently your grade school level of thinking needs more experience of living to grasp that. Most humans already presume this, especially Christians, but you apparently don"t know that.

And no, incorrect, you just said it, man was made to be loyal to his Maker of which they were not and were separated from the life they were given in the Presence of God originally to a continued existence in the flesh "dust to dust" like the animals beneath them.
silverxseed
Posts: 64
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11/24/2014 1:23:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 11:20:38 AM, DPMartin wrote:
At 11/24/2014 10:14:10 AM, silverxseed wrote:
At 11/24/2014 9:51:12 AM, DPMartin wrote:
In the Christian context:

We are born into a world of rejection and condemned to death by default. One must earn acceptance of the world or he is, rejected and condemned by the world that is condemned already. Because it"s the place of rejection and condemnation by default. Hence one is to seek the acceptance of a condemned world, or a world condemned.

In the Kingdom of Heaven one is born into acceptance and has promise of eternal life in which there is no such thing as condemnation.

Why?

We are born into the life given us through Adam and Eve who were made first into acceptance of God"s pleasure and Presence and had the promise or access to eternal life via the Tree of Life. Then rejected that by placing their belief and trust in words of another source about God and His Word. Hence the Life died to that day. Now all sons of man are born into this life of rejection and condemnation to death. Again why? God"s Word is Life and gives Life. Reject the Word of God and one rejects the Life given through the Word of God that is the will of God for that which it is given to, in this case men.


If one reserves the right to reject his Maker, then he hasn"t done anything that hasn"t been done for him already via being born into the sons of man. His own rejection of God and God"s Word doesn"t count or is of no effect one way or the other. And the proof of that is he is condemned to death already. But repentance to the acceptance into the Kingdom of Heaven in the name of Jesus Christ is the only thing that can change one"s state of rejection and condemnation to death.

I call bs. Pretending that I believe that the Christian god is the creator of the univers and all life then I can safely posit that God created the rules of the universe. After all, he was the cause for everything(read: all creation), no? Apparently it is one of the rules of the universe that the act of Adam and Eve "betraying" god permanently stains all humanity since that point, all humans are now "born into sin". But why? Surely this is nonsensical as a far descendant of this ancient pair will have no bearing on what actions they take due to the actions of their ancestors?(i.e. If your great grandfather was a serial killer that in no way makes you a murderer.) It doesn't have to be that the child is blamed for the sins of their father but God set it up that way. If God is the master of the universe and the ultimate arbiter of morality then it stands to reason that it is by God's will that all humanity is born into sin and therefore doomed from their moment of birth. Unless thy how to him, of course. Of course, there is no other reason why this would stand. Surely if God did not want all humanity to be born doomed he could have simply made it so that Adam and Eve's actions didn't ring through the entire species, correct?


Ah, last I checked, if one is born of a dog one has the traits of a dog and the life of the dog given through a dog that was given the life of a dog. If one is born of a pig one has the traits of a pig and the life of the pig given though a pig that was given the life of a pig. What reasoning do you have, in that doesn"t apply to man? And FYI born into sin is a born into separation from God (amongst other theological thinking which doesn"t apply here), and you can verify that because you have been born of man, and are not in any true awareness of a Presence of God.

Also murder doesn"t make murder, murder is a chosen action "dust to dust" in the separation from God is the life that they had and passed on, what one chooses to do in that life, is on the chooser. But apparently your grade school level of thinking needs more experience of living to grasp that. Most humans already presume this, especially Christians, but you apparently don"t know that.

And no, incorrect, you just said it, man was made to be loyal to his Maker of which they were not and were separated from the life they were given in the Presence of God originally to a continued existence in the flesh "dust to dust" like the animals beneath them.

Oh, so quick to resort to personal attacks now, aren't we? Did I hurt your feelings?

You're ignoring the the point that I'm making which is that God wants the predicament of humans being born into sin to continue as be is the one who constructed the universe in that way with that rule. He did not have to. Nothing is required of an all powerful being such as God so he has no pre-existing no-nos except that innate goodness he is supposed to possess. That is why a pig is born from a pig, a dog is born from a dog, and why humans are born into sin. But there is no reason why this has to be the case if God doesn't want it to be the case.

If murder doesn't make murder why does god think that two sinners make a while race of sinners? It's the same concept. You said it yourself that the actions of a parent shouldn't be blamed upon the child as well, so why then must all humanity suffer for their distant parent's sin? I'm a non-Christian and you seriously think that I care what the popular opinion is? Number of believers mean nothing to me. And apparently not much to you either as the number of believers of all other faiths dwarf the number of believers in yours.

I never said it was true that God is master of the universe much less that he is real. I did speak in that manner so as to reach a common ground. Now, why does God want humans to be born into sin?
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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11/24/2014 2:48:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 1:23:04 PM, silverxseed wrote:
At 11/24/2014 11:20:38 AM, DPMartin wrote:
At 11/24/2014 10:14:10 AM, silverxseed wrote:
At 11/24/2014 9:51:12 AM, DPMartin wrote:
In the Christian context:

We are born into a world of rejection and condemned to death by default. One must earn acceptance of the world or he is, rejected and condemned by the world that is condemned already. Because it"s the place of rejection and condemnation by default. Hence one is to seek the acceptance of a condemned world, or a world condemned.

In the Kingdom of Heaven one is born into acceptance and has promise of eternal life in which there is no such thing as condemnation.

Why?

We are born into the life given us through Adam and Eve who were made first into acceptance of God"s pleasure and Presence and had the promise or access to eternal life via the Tree of Life. Then rejected that by placing their belief and trust in words of another source about God and His Word. Hence the Life died to that day. Now all sons of man are born into this life of rejection and condemnation to death. Again why? God"s Word is Life and gives Life. Reject the Word of God and one rejects the Life given through the Word of God that is the will of God for that which it is given to, in this case men.


If one reserves the right to reject his Maker, then he hasn"t done anything that hasn"t been done for him already via being born into the sons of man. His own rejection of God and God"s Word doesn"t count or is of no effect one way or the other. And the proof of that is he is condemned to death already. But repentance to the acceptance into the Kingdom of Heaven in the name of Jesus Christ is the only thing that can change one"s state of rejection and condemnation to death.

I call bs. Pretending that I believe that the Christian god is the creator of the univers and all life then I can safely posit that God created the rules of the universe. After all, he was the cause for everything(read: all creation), no? Apparently it is one of the rules of the universe that the act of Adam and Eve "betraying" god permanently stains all humanity since that point, all humans are now "born into sin". But why? Surely this is nonsensical as a far descendant of this ancient pair will have no bearing on what actions they take due to the actions of their ancestors?(i.e. If your great grandfather was a serial killer that in no way makes you a murderer.) It doesn't have to be that the child is blamed for the sins of their father but God set it up that way. If God is the master of the universe and the ultimate arbiter of morality then it stands to reason that it is by God's will that all humanity is born into sin and therefore doomed from their moment of birth. Unless thy how to him, of course. Of course, there is no other reason why this would stand. Surely if God did not want all humanity to be born doomed he could have simply made it so that Adam and Eve's actions didn't ring through the entire species, correct?


Ah, last I checked, if one is born of a dog one has the traits of a dog and the life of the dog given through a dog that was given the life of a dog. If one is born of a pig one has the traits of a pig and the life of the pig given though a pig that was given the life of a pig. What reasoning do you have, in that doesn"t apply to man? And FYI born into sin is a born into separation from God (amongst other theological thinking which doesn"t apply here), and you can verify that because you have been born of man, and are not in any true awareness of a Presence of God.

Also murder doesn"t make murder, murder is a chosen action "dust to dust" in the separation from God is the life that they had and passed on, what one chooses to do in that life, is on the chooser. But apparently your grade school level of thinking needs more experience of living to grasp that. Most humans already presume this, especially Christians, but you apparently don"t know that.

And no, incorrect, you just said it, man was made to be loyal to his Maker of which they were not and were separated from the life they were given in the Presence of God originally to a continued existence in the flesh "dust to dust" like the animals beneath them.

Oh, so quick to resort to personal attacks now, aren't we? Did I hurt your feelings?

Why? Does the grade school remark fit? If it was a personal attack, it would be about you not what you are using for reasoning. If you take that as personal, then so be it.

You're ignoring the the point that I'm making

You are absolutely correct, for the same reason you"ve taken exception to.

I never said it was true that God is master of the universe much less that he is real. I did speak in that manner so as to reach a common ground. Now, why does God want humans to be born into sin?

If you are going to try and have a conversation in the context of this subject it would seem necessary to at the least, to speak as those it"s a hypothetical as if it were true, what"s your point other than you don"t believe there is a God? I might as well talk to some one who actually has some interest in the subject, rather than the broken record of there is no God, there, there is no god why don"t you have any respect for my conversation? there is no god. Are you trying to send subliminal messages or something, or is there a requirement for atheists to state their faith some many times a day?
silverxseed
Posts: 64
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11/24/2014 4:21:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 2:48:36 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 11/24/2014 1:23:04 PM, silverxseed wrote:
At 11/24/2014 11:20:38 AM, DPMartin wrote:
At 11/24/2014 10:14:10 AM, silverxseed wrote:
At 11/24/2014 9:51:12 AM, DPMartin wrote:
In the Christian context:

We are born into a world of rejection and condemned to death by default. One must earn acceptance of the world or he is, rejected and condemned by the world that is condemned already. Because it"s the place of rejection and condemnation by default. Hence one is to seek the acceptance of a condemned world, or a world condemned.

In the Kingdom of Heaven one is born into acceptance and has promise of eternal life in which there is no such thing as condemnation.

Why?

We are born into the life given us through Adam and Eve who were made first into acceptance of God"s pleasure and Presence and had the promise or access to eternal life via the Tree of Life. Then rejected that by placing their belief and trust in words of another source about God and His Word. Hence the Life died to that day. Now all sons of man are born into this life of rejection and condemnation to death. Again why? God"s Word is Life and gives Life. Reject the Word of God and one rejects the Life given through the Word of God that is the will of God for that which it is given to, in this case men.


If one reserves the right to reject his Maker, then he hasn"t done anything that hasn"t been done for him already via being born into the sons of man. His own rejection of God and God"s Word doesn"t count or is of no effect one way or the other. And the proof of that is he is condemned to death already. But repentance to the acceptance into the Kingdom of Heaven in the name of Jesus Christ is the only thing that can change one"s state of rejection and condemnation to death.

I call bs. Pretending that I believe that the Christian god is the creator of the univers and all life then I can safely posit that God created the rules of the universe. After all, he was the cause for everything(read: all creation), no? Apparently it is one of the rules of the universe that the act of Adam and Eve "betraying" god permanently stains all humanity since that point, all humans are now "born into sin". But why? Surely this is nonsensical as a far descendant of this ancient pair will have no bearing on what actions they take due to the actions of their ancestors?(i.e. If your great grandfather was a serial killer that in no way makes you a murderer.) It doesn't have to be that the child is blamed for the sins of their father but God set it up that way. If God is the master of the universe and the ultimate arbiter of morality then it stands to reason that it is by God's will that all humanity is born into sin and therefore doomed from their moment of birth. Unless thy how to him, of course. Of course, there is no other reason why this would stand. Surely if God did not want all humanity to be born doomed he could have simply made it so that Adam and Eve's actions didn't ring through the entire species, correct?


Ah, last I checked, if one is born of a dog one has the traits of a dog and the life of the dog given through a dog that was given the life of a dog. If one is born of a pig one has the traits of a pig and the life of the pig given though a pig that was given the life of a pig. What reasoning do you have, in that doesn"t apply to man? And FYI born into sin is a born into separation from God (amongst other theological thinking which doesn"t apply here), and you can verify that because you have been born of man, and are not in any true awareness of a Presence of God.

Also murder doesn"t make murder, murder is a chosen action "dust to dust" in the separation from God is the life that they had and passed on, what one chooses to do in that life, is on the chooser. But apparently your grade school level of thinking needs more experience of living to grasp that. Most humans already presume this, especially Christians, but you apparently don"t know that.

And no, incorrect, you just said it, man was made to be loyal to his Maker of which they were not and were separated from the life they were given in the Presence of God originally to a continued existence in the flesh "dust to dust" like the animals beneath them.

Oh, so quick to resort to personal attacks now, aren't we? Did I hurt your feelings?

Why? Does the grade school remark fit? If it was a personal attack, it would be about you not what you are using for reasoning. If you take that as personal, then so be it.

You're ignoring the the point that I'm making

You are absolutely correct, for the same reason you"ve taken exception to.


I never said it was true that God is master of the universe much less that he is real. I did speak in that manner so as to reach a common ground. Now, why does God want humans to be born into sin?

If you are going to try and have a conversation in the context of this subject it would seem necessary to at the least, to speak as those it"s a hypothetical as if it were true, what"s your point other than you don"t believe there is a God? I might as well talk to some one who actually has some interest in the subject, rather than the broken record of there is no God, there, there is no god why don"t you have any respect for my conversation? there is no god. Are you trying to send subliminal messages or something, or is there a requirement for atheists to state their faith some many times a day?

No I simply found it funny that you had nothing else to say but to stoop to personal remarks even in your first reply.

If you're ignoring my point then simply don't reply. It's quite simple.

Oh, assuming I'm an atheist. That's a pity. Anyone who doesn't share your religious view must simply believe that God doesn't exist, right? That paragraph was quite amusing, however. So you want to talk to somewhere who believes the same as you? So you want a circle jek? If so then you've chosen the wrong place to do it. You could find a Christian forum, there are so many out there. Anywhere else is a completely open forum and in such a foru any and all comments made can and will be commented upon by anyone. My, my you're very defensive.

I'd just like to state that a lack of belief in something is not a faith, rather it is a position not enough substantial evidence has been presented to point to the existence of a god. And I could ask the same about your faith. Is there a requirement for Christians to state their faith so many times a day?

Just for clarification: Anyone who states with full certainty that there is no possibility that a deity or supernatural being could exist is simply intellectually dishonest. The same with those who state with full certainty that their god exists and is the only true deity. No, I don't believe that a deity doesn't exist. I do, however, heavily doubt that yours does and hope that it doesn't. What with it's bloody track record in it's own book.

A question: Have you ever questioned something that you read in the bible and didn't agree with? Or do you blindly believe that what the bible says is good is good because it's in the bible?