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No god.

Hunter695
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11/24/2014 10:30:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
God is either a sick twisted fairy tale, not all powerful, or evil. Your goal is to try and convince me otherwise. So here is my point of view, I see it as if there was a god, then why are people dying in terrible horrible ways? Why would children be being raped, why are people getting brutally murdered. I think that if god was real all these terrible things wouldn't be happening. Also what is there other than a book to say that god is real, nothing? The bible only proves that someone thought that there must be a god that created all of this, it doesn't prove anything. If god was so against certain groups of people then why do those groups exist? Why would god even create a person that might go against him? If god was real then there wouldn't be school shootings or rape, murder, drowning, fiery deaths, no one would die in these horrible ways. If god does exist then why is he letting all of this happen? Wouldn't he want to step in, and if he is just letting everything happen then why pray to him if he isn't going to do anything? Okay also if god was real and Satan was causing all of these bad things to happen why god would let Satan keep existing? Why not just kill Satan? I personally think that if god and Satan are real, then wouldn"t it make more sense to pray to the guy that has more power (Satan)? I am an atheist, but I am thinking about converting to Satanism, or atheistic Satanism. It seems to me that if god and Satan are real then Satan has more power.
silverxseed
Posts: 64
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11/24/2014 10:40:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 10:30:09 AM, Hunter695 wrote:
God is either a sick twisted fairy tale, not all powerful, or evil. Your goal is to try and convince me otherwise. So here is my point of view, I see it as if there was a god, then why are people dying in terrible horrible ways? Why would children be being raped, why are people getting brutally murdered. I think that if god was real all these terrible things wouldn't be happening. Also what is there other than a book to say that god is real, nothing? The bible only proves that someone thought that there must be a god that created all of this, it doesn't prove anything. If god was so against certain groups of people then why do those groups exist? Why would god even create a person that might go against him? If god was real then there wouldn't be school shootings or rape, murder, drowning, fiery deaths, no one would die in these horrible ways. If god does exist then why is he letting all of this happen? Wouldn't he want to step in, and if he is just letting everything happen then why pray to him if he isn't going to do anything? Okay also if god was real and Satan was causing all of these bad things to happen why god would let Satan keep existing? Why not just kill Satan? I personally think that if god and Satan are real, then wouldn"t it make more sense to pray to the guy that has more power (Satan)? I am an atheist, but I am thinking about converting to Satanism, or atheistic Satanism. It seems to me that if god and Satan are real then Satan has more power.

I don't think that Lucifer(Satan is actually the name of an angel that God used to test humans in the myths but people use it to refer to the figure of "the devil", I prefer the name Lucifer because it's separate from the tester-angel figure) is necessarily more powerful than God but he definitely reads as a far better guy in the myths. But I wouldn't pray to him, I wouldn't pray(as in fall down on my knees, worship and beg) to anything. Certainly not because whatever it is seems to be more powerful than another being. We could be equals, hang out, play poker on Wednesdays.

This is pretending either of them are real.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,482
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11/24/2014 11:22:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 10:30:09 AM, Hunter695 wrote:
God is either a sick twisted fairy tale, not all powerful, or evil. Your goal is to try and convince me otherwise. So here is my point of view, I see it as if there was a god, then why are people dying in terrible horrible ways? Why would children be being raped, why are people getting brutally murdered. I think that if god was real all these terrible things wouldn't be happening. Also what is there other than a book to say that god is real, nothing? The bible only proves that someone thought that there must be a god that created all of this, it doesn't prove anything. If god was so against certain groups of people then why do those groups exist? Why would god even create a person that might go against him? If god was real then there wouldn't be school shootings or rape, murder, drowning, fiery deaths, no one would die in these horrible ways. If god does exist then why is he letting all of this happen? Wouldn't he want to step in, and if he is just letting everything happen then why pray to him if he isn't going to do anything? Okay also if god was real and Satan was causing all of these bad things to happen why god would let Satan keep existing? Why not just kill Satan? I personally think that if god and Satan are real, then wouldn"t it make more sense to pray to the guy that has more power (Satan)? I am an atheist, but I am thinking about converting to Satanism, or atheistic Satanism. It seems to me that if god and Satan are real then Satan has more power.

here i posted in this forum what Islam says about problem of evil..... http://www.debate.org...
Never fart near dog
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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11/24/2014 11:29:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 10:30:09 AM, Hunter695 wrote:
God is either a sick twisted fairy tale, not all powerful, or evil. Your goal is to try and convince me otherwise. So here is my point of view, I see it as if there was a god, then why are people dying in terrible horrible ways? Why would children be being raped, why are people getting brutally murdered. I think that if god was real all these terrible things wouldn't be happening. Also what is there other than a book to say that god is real, nothing? The bible only proves that someone thought that there must be a god that created all of this, it doesn't prove anything. If god was so against certain groups of people then why do those groups exist? Why would god even create a person that might go against him? If god was real then there wouldn't be school shootings or rape, murder, drowning, fiery deaths, no one would die in these horrible ways. If god does exist then why is he letting all of this happen? Wouldn't he want to step in, and if he is just letting everything happen then why pray to him if he isn't going to do anything? Okay also if god was real and Satan was causing all of these bad things to happen why god would let Satan keep existing? Why not just kill Satan? I personally think that if god and Satan are real, then wouldn"t it make more sense to pray to the guy that has more power (Satan)? I am an atheist, but I am thinking about converting to Satanism, or atheistic Satanism. It seems to me that if god and Satan are real then Satan has more power.

God is neither.

Why should he need to defend himself, he ahs done nothing wrong, it is all in the rather twisted way poeple frequently choose to undersdtand what his ownh word tells us.

I can only assume this is another PoE type thread.

God permits it for a limited time because in the long run that is the best way to serve Justice for all concerned, innocent and guilty.

This way it will be a one time only experience and no-one will ever be able to force humainty down this pat again.

That is the simple explanation, but it has takien the whole of scripture to explain to fully, and even then most don;t understand it.

Consinder this.

approximately 70 years of suffering for each individual may seem a lot to us who rarely live much longer.

But after the resurrection, in about say 10,000 years, will we look back on it as being
significant, or simply a glitch on the way to the perfect, and unending life?

I now how I shall be viewing it should I be adjudged as suitable for that life. In roughly the same light as I vgiewed teh Quadricepsplasty opreation, which was supposed to take 2 years to recover from but would at least allow me to operate teh clutch of a car again. As an inconvenience which led to soethign much better than I had before.,

Look at the whole of scriptural history in that light, and you realise what a loving God we really have as oru God and creator. Howeer his opposers try to portray him, after the fashion of the one they are serving, wether or not they realise it, Satan the Devil.
Emilrose
Posts: 2,479
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11/24/2014 11:38:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 10:30:09 AM, Hunter695 wrote:
God is either a sick twisted fairy tale, not all powerful, or evil. Your goal is to try and convince me otherwise. So here is my point of view, I see it as if there was a god, then why are people dying in terrible horrible ways? Why would children be being raped, why are people getting brutally murdered. I think that if god was real all these terrible things wouldn't be happening. Also what is there other than a book to say that god is real, nothing? The bible only proves that someone thought that there must be a god that created all of this, it doesn't prove anything. If god was so against certain groups of people then why do those groups exist? Why would god even create a person that might go against him? If god was real then there wouldn't be school shootings or rape, murder, drowning, fiery deaths, no one would die in these horrible ways. If god does exist then why is he letting all of this happen? Wouldn't he want to step in, and if he is just letting everything happen then why pray to him if he isn't going to do anything? Okay also if god was real and Satan was causing all of these bad things to happen why god would let Satan keep existing? Why not just kill Satan? I personally think that if god and Satan are real, then wouldn"t it make more sense to pray to the guy that has more power (Satan)? I am an atheist, but I am thinking about converting to Satanism, or atheistic Satanism. It seems to me that if god and Satan are real then Satan has more power.

Even if you do not believe in G-d-- how is converting to Satanism a logical move? By doing that you're actually proving that G-d exists; as one can't without the other.

Fact is that "evil" is largely attributed to the wrongdoing of people, not G-d.
Commentator on a picture with David Cameron and a Cat: 'Amazing what you can achieve with photoshop these days. I'm sure that used to be a pig.'

Commentator on Hillary Clinton: 'If Clinton is now what passes for progressive, maybe this country deserves Trump.'

Commentator on British parliament: 'All that talent in one place, where is Ebola when you need it?'

John Kerry on words: 'These aren't just words, folks.'
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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11/24/2014 12:02:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 11:38:14 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 11/24/2014 10:30:09 AM, Hunter695 wrote:
God is either a sick twisted fairy tale, not all powerful, or evil. Your goal is to try and convince me otherwise. So here is my point of view, I see it as if there was a god, then why are people dying in terrible horrible ways? Why would children be being raped, why are people getting brutally murdered. I think that if god was real all these terrible things wouldn't be happening. Also what is there other than a book to say that god is real, nothing? The bible only proves that someone thought that there must be a god that created all of this, it doesn't prove anything. If god was so against certain groups of people then why do those groups exist? Why would god even create a person that might go against him? If god was real then there wouldn't be school shootings or rape, murder, drowning, fiery deaths, no one would die in these horrible ways. If god does exist then why is he letting all of this happen? Wouldn't he want to step in, and if he is just letting everything happen then why pray to him if he isn't going to do anything? Okay also if god was real and Satan was causing all of these bad things to happen why god would let Satan keep existing? Why not just kill Satan? I personally think that if god and Satan are real, then wouldn"t it make more sense to pray to the guy that has more power (Satan)? I am an atheist, but I am thinking about converting to Satanism, or atheistic Satanism. It seems to me that if god and Satan are real then Satan has more power.

Even if you do not believe in G-d-- how is converting to Satanism a logical move? By doing that you're actually proving that G-d exists; as one can't without the other.

Fact is that "evil" is largely attributed to the wrongdoing of people, not G-d.

Well yes, but evil started with Satan, who does exist and will soon be taken oput of circulation.

However you are right, turning to Satanism is completely illogical and irrational, even more so that denying God's existence.
Emilrose
Posts: 2,479
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11/24/2014 12:19:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 12:02:38 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 11/24/2014 11:38:14 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 11/24/2014 10:30:09 AM, Hunter695 wrote:
God is either a sick twisted fairy tale, not all powerful, or evil. Your goal is to try and convince me otherwise. So here is my point of view, I see it as if there was a god, then why are people dying in terrible horrible ways? Why would children be being raped, why are people getting brutally murdered. I think that if god was real all these terrible things wouldn't be happening. Also what is there other than a book to say that god is real, nothing? The bible only proves that someone thought that there must be a god that created all of this, it doesn't prove anything. If god was so against certain groups of people then why do those groups exist? Why would god even create a person that might go against him? If god was real then there wouldn't be school shootings or rape, murder, drowning, fiery deaths, no one would die in these horrible ways. If god does exist then why is he letting all of this happen? Wouldn't he want to step in, and if he is just letting everything happen then why pray to him if he isn't going to do anything? Okay also if god was real and Satan was causing all of these bad things to happen why god would let Satan keep existing? Why not just kill Satan? I personally think that if god and Satan are real, then wouldn"t it make more sense to pray to the guy that has more power (Satan)? I am an atheist, but I am thinking about converting to Satanism, or atheistic Satanism. It seems to me that if god and Satan are real then Satan has more power.

Even if you do not believe in G-d-- how is converting to Satanism a logical move? By doing that you're actually proving that G-d exists; as one can't without the other.

Fact is that "evil" is largely attributed to the wrongdoing of people, not G-d.

Well yes, but evil started with Satan, who does exist and will soon be taken oput of circulation.

I agree that evil has its origins with Satan.

The main point with human beings is that "evil" has become an inclination--and an option that gets chosen. While the Satan is to blame, people are also responsible for giving into that inclination and subsequently allowing evil to manifest.

However you are right, turning to Satanism is completely illogical and irrational, even more so that denying God's existence.

Yep, it totally is. Why complain about evil and then join a cult that worships it?
Commentator on a picture with David Cameron and a Cat: 'Amazing what you can achieve with photoshop these days. I'm sure that used to be a pig.'

Commentator on Hillary Clinton: 'If Clinton is now what passes for progressive, maybe this country deserves Trump.'

Commentator on British parliament: 'All that talent in one place, where is Ebola when you need it?'

John Kerry on words: 'These aren't just words, folks.'
silverxseed
Posts: 64
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11/24/2014 12:28:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 12:19:58 PM, Emilrose wrote:
At 11/24/2014 12:02:38 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 11/24/2014 11:38:14 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 11/24/2014 10:30:09 AM, Hunter695 wrote:
God is either a sick twisted fairy tale, not all powerful, or evil. Your goal is to try and convince me otherwise. So here is my point of view, I see it as if there was a god, then why are people dying in terrible horrible ways? Why would children be being raped, why are people getting brutally murdered. I think that if god was real all these terrible things wouldn't be happening. Also what is there other than a book to say that god is real, nothing? The bible only proves that someone thought that there must be a god that created all of this, it doesn't prove anything. If god was so against certain groups of people then why do those groups exist? Why would god even create a person that might go against him? If god was real then there wouldn't be school shootings or rape, murder, drowning, fiery deaths, no one would die in these horrible ways. If god does exist then why is he letting all of this happen? Wouldn't he want to step in, and if he is just letting everything happen then why pray to him if he isn't going to do anything? Okay also if god was real and Satan was causing all of these bad things to happen why god would let Satan keep existing? Why not just kill Satan? I personally think that if god and Satan are real, then wouldn"t it make more sense to pray to the guy that has more power (Satan)? I am an atheist, but I am thinking about converting to Satanism, or atheistic Satanism. It seems to me that if god and Satan are real then Satan has more power.

Even if you do not believe in G-d-- how is converting to Satanism a logical move? By doing that you're actually proving that G-d exists; as one can't without the other.

Fact is that "evil" is largely attributed to the wrongdoing of people, not G-d.

Well yes, but evil started with Satan, who does exist and will soon be taken oput of circulation.

I agree that evil has its origins with Satan.

The main point with human beings is that "evil" has become an inclination--and an option that gets chosen. While the Satan is to blame, people are also responsible for giving into that inclination and subsequently allowing evil to manifest.

However you are right, turning to Satanism is completely illogical and irrational, even more so that denying God's existence.

Yep, it totally is. Why complain about evil and then join a cult that worships it?

Pease provide substantial evidence that satan exists, that he is an evil being, and that satanism worships evil. Just for clarification, the bible is a claim, not evidence. Go.
Emilrose
Posts: 2,479
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11/24/2014 12:40:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 12:28:25 PM, silverxseed wrote:
At 11/24/2014 12:19:58 PM, Emilrose wrote:
At 11/24/2014 12:02:38 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 11/24/2014 11:38:14 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 11/24/2014 10:30:09 AM, Hunter695 wrote:
God is either a sick twisted fairy tale, not all powerful, or evil. Your goal is to try and convince me otherwise. So here is my point of view, I see it as if there was a god, then why are people dying in terrible horrible ways? Why would children be being raped, why are people getting brutally murdered. I think that if god was real all these terrible things wouldn't be happening. Also what is there other than a book to say that god is real, nothing? The bible only proves that someone thought that there must be a god that created all of this, it doesn't prove anything. If god was so against certain groups of people then why do those groups exist? Why would god even create a person that might go against him? If god was real then there wouldn't be school shootings or rape, murder, drowning, fiery deaths, no one would die in these horrible ways. If god does exist then why is he letting all of this happen? Wouldn't he want to step in, and if he is just letting everything happen then why pray to him if he isn't going to do anything? Okay also if god was real and Satan was causing all of these bad things to happen why god would let Satan keep existing? Why not just kill Satan? I personally think that if god and Satan are real, then wouldn"t it make more sense to pray to the guy that has more power (Satan)? I am an atheist, but I am thinking about converting to Satanism, or atheistic Satanism. It seems to me that if god and Satan are real then Satan has more power.

Even if you do not believe in G-d-- how is converting to Satanism a logical move? By doing that you're actually proving that G-d exists; as one can't without the other.

Fact is that "evil" is largely attributed to the wrongdoing of people, not G-d.

Well yes, but evil started with Satan, who does exist and will soon be taken oput of circulation.

I agree that evil has its origins with Satan.

The main point with human beings is that "evil" has become an inclination--and an option that gets chosen. While the Satan is to blame, people are also responsible for giving into that inclination and subsequently allowing evil to manifest.

However you are right, turning to Satanism is completely illogical and irrational, even more so that denying God's existence.

Yep, it totally is. Why complain about evil and then join a cult that worships it?

Pease provide substantial evidence that satan exists, that he is an evil being, and that satanism worships evil. Just for clarification, the bible is a claim, not evidence. Go.

Why not you provide "substantial evidence" that he does not exist? How about that?

Unless one is assigned to the concept of nihilism; it is almost universally obvious that "evil" exists. The often used argument of: "why does G-d allow evil to happen"? is an indication of that. There is also the very evident fact that evil causes evil--and moreover, people suffer as a result of it. If it did not exist and was not a "bad" thing; then naturally neither of those things would happen.

As for satanism, again, that one is obvious. Satanism worships Satan who is regarded as an evil being, they themselves view him as being representative of evil.

Now, want to present any contradictory evidence of your own? Like proving that the Bible is exclusively a claim? Proving that G-d does not exist? Can you do that? Give it a try.

I'll just highlight: alternative explanations for the universe and people are actually "claims", and not definitive proof of anything.
Commentator on a picture with David Cameron and a Cat: 'Amazing what you can achieve with photoshop these days. I'm sure that used to be a pig.'

Commentator on Hillary Clinton: 'If Clinton is now what passes for progressive, maybe this country deserves Trump.'

Commentator on British parliament: 'All that talent in one place, where is Ebola when you need it?'

John Kerry on words: 'These aren't just words, folks.'
silverxseed
Posts: 64
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11/24/2014 12:56:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 12:40:38 PM, Emilrose wrote:
At 11/24/2014 12:28:25 PM, silverxseed wrote:
At 11/24/2014 12:19:58 PM, Emilrose wrote:
At 11/24/2014 12:02:38 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 11/24/2014 11:38:14 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 11/24/2014 10:30:09 AM, Hunter695 wrote:
God is either a sick twisted fairy tale, not all powerful, or evil. Your goal is to try and convince me otherwise. So here is my point of view, I see it as if there was a god, then why are people dying in terrible horrible ways? Why would children be being raped, why are people getting brutally murdered. I think that if god was real all these terrible things wouldn't be happening. Also what is there other than a book to say that god is real, nothing? The bible only proves that someone thought that there must be a god that created all of this, it doesn't prove anything. If god was so against certain groups of people then why do those groups exist? Why would god even create a person that might go against him? If god was real then there wouldn't be school shootings or rape, murder, drowning, fiery deaths, no one would die in these horrible ways. If god does exist then why is he letting all of this happen? Wouldn't he want to step in, and if he is just letting everything happen then why pray to him if he isn't going to do anything? Okay also if god was real and Satan was causing all of these bad things to happen why god would let Satan keep existing? Why not just kill Satan? I personally think that if god and Satan are real, then wouldn"t it make more sense to pray to the guy that has more power (Satan)? I am an atheist, but I am thinking about converting to Satanism, or atheistic Satanism. It seems to me that if god and Satan are real then Satan has more power.

Even if you do not believe in G-d-- how is converting to Satanism a logical move? By doing that you're actually proving that G-d exists; as one can't without the other.

Fact is that "evil" is largely attributed to the wrongdoing of people, not G-d.

Well yes, but evil started with Satan, who does exist and will soon be taken oput of circulation.

I agree that evil has its origins with Satan.

The main point with human beings is that "evil" has become an inclination--and an option that gets chosen. While the Satan is to blame, people are also responsible for giving into that inclination and subsequently allowing evil to manifest.

However you are right, turning to Satanism is completely illogical and irrational, even more so that denying God's existence.

Yep, it totally is. Why complain about evil and then join a cult that worships it?

Pease provide substantial evidence that satan exists, that he is an evil being, and that satanism worships evil. Just for clarification, the bible is a claim, not evidence. Go.

Why not you provide "substantial evidence" that he does not exist? How about that?

Unless one is assigned to the concept of nihilism; it is almost universally obvious that "evil" exists. The often used argument of: "why does G-d allow evil to happen"? is an indication of that. There is also the very evident fact that evil causes evil--and moreover, people suffer as a result of it. If it did not exist and was not a "bad" thing; then naturally neither of those things would happen.

As for satanism, again, that one is obvious. Satanism worships Satan who is regarded as an evil being, they themselves view him as being representative of evil.

Now, want to present any contradictory evidence of your own? Like proving that the Bible is exclusively a claim? Proving that G-d does not exist? Can you do that? Give it a try.

I'll just highlight: alternative explanations for the universe and people are actually "claims", and not definitive proof of anything.

Because I don't have to because I'm not the one making the claim. You are. I never said Satan doesn't exist or make a claim of whether he exists or not but you did. Therefore you must present evidence to be believed. Of should we just believe any claim without evidence? I am Hercules. Prove I'm not.

I never claimed that evil doesn't exist. I asked you to provide evidence that the figure known as Satan is evil.

No. Both theistic and atheistic Satanism see Satan as a symbol of freedom, release of inhibition, and indulgence in the human condition. People so often forget even after they cite Crowley's "Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" that the next line is "Love is the law, love under will".

The bible is a claim. It has no greater veracity than anything else that I write on a piece of paper. If I entomb that paper for two thousand years and say it's true then how is it any less true than the bible? Claims require outside evidence. I could write a book saying that Genghis Kahn conquered most of Asia but it wouldn't be true without evidence, which we have through multiple contemporary accounts and archaeological evidence as well as knowing that Kahn was a real person.

I never said that god doesn't exist. You sure do like jumping to conclusions, don't you? You're making a positive claim and I'm only asking you to provide evidence. But I'll play the game. In the same vein as your question, prove to me that Zeus, Brahma, Ra, and Odin do not exist and then try to tell me why your god is more likely to be real then that lot.
CucuGreen
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11/24/2014 1:11:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
In your first sentence you are basically asking the question of theodicy. Over the centuries there have been many ways of answering that question. Some of those can even be found in the bible.
The oldest and most known answer is that suffering is a punishment from God. If you suffer you do it for the crimes you have commited. The problem with this therory is that it cannot be applied to a newborn or a toddler.
The second is that you atoning the sins of someone else and another one that you are being tested by God and if found loyal and pure awarded for it. This theory can be found in the Book of Job, one of the eldest books in the Christian Old Testament (you see, this topic has already been discussed a long time ago).
After the Holocaust many Jews found themselves searching for better reasons for suffering. New theories were developed. People theorized that God is either not almighty (that he gave away his powers when he gave us free will) and cannot prevent the suffering or that he is not benevolent, that he has a dark side.
Your second argument is, if I understand correctly, that God can't be proven. That is correct, many things can't be proven. The absence of God, for example, can't be proven either. Neither can our existance. One indication that god does intead exist is that the probability that the universe as we know it could evolve by chance is so small that it is virtually zero.
I also disagree with you on your third point, because no one knows who God supports or opposes. God gave humankind free will and let us evolve into what we are now, including people opposing him.
Your next argument is basically the same as your first: The question of theodicy.
People pray to god for hope and stability. They may not get an answer, but it helps them to cope with their problems.
Gods existance is not tied to Santans. Some people believe that Satan is just a synonym for gods dark side (I cringe every time I use that expression because it compares god to a Jedi, but I can't quite think of a better way to phrase this.).
Atheistic satanism is morally questionable. The eye for an eye morality they support, fr example, has no place in a modern world. As Ghandi said: "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."
Satanism itself conflicts with atheism, because Satanists believe that Satan is a god that should be worshipped.
If you are indeed an atheist the thought that Satan is theoretically more powerful than God should not bother you, because neither of them exist.
The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge, but imagination. - Albert Einstein
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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11/24/2014 1:14:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 12:19:58 PM, Emilrose wrote:
At 11/24/2014 12:02:38 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 11/24/2014 11:38:14 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 11/24/2014 10:30:09 AM, Hunter695 wrote:
God is either a sick twisted fairy tale, not all powerful, or evil. Your goal is to try and convince me otherwise. So here is my point of view, I see it as if there was a god, then why are people dying in terrible horrible ways? Why would children be being raped, why are people getting brutally murdered. I think that if god was real all these terrible things wouldn't be happening. Also what is there other than a book to say that god is real, nothing? The bible only proves that someone thought that there must be a god that created all of this, it doesn't prove anything. If god was so against certain groups of people then why do those groups exist? Why would god even create a person that might go against him? If god was real then there wouldn't be school shootings or rape, murder, drowning, fiery deaths, no one would die in these horrible ways. If god does exist then why is he letting all of this happen? Wouldn't he want to step in, and if he is just letting everything happen then why pray to him if he isn't going to do anything? Okay also if god was real and Satan was causing all of these bad things to happen why god would let Satan keep existing? Why not just kill Satan? I personally think that if god and Satan are real, then wouldn"t it make more sense to pray to the guy that has more power (Satan)? I am an atheist, but I am thinking about converting to Satanism, or atheistic Satanism. It seems to me that if god and Satan are real then Satan has more power.

Even if you do not believe in G-d-- how is converting to Satanism a logical move? By doing that you're actually proving that G-d exists; as one can't without the other.

Fact is that "evil" is largely attributed to the wrongdoing of people, not G-d.

Well yes, but evil started with Satan, who does exist and will soon be taken oput of circulation.

I agree that evil has its origins with Satan.

The main point with human beings is that "evil" has become an inclination--and an option that gets chosen. While the Satan is to blame, people are also responsible for giving into that inclination and subsequently allowing evil to manifest.

Got it in one. One of the best summations I have come across, thank you.


However you are right, turning to Satanism is completely illogical and irrational, even more so that denying God's existence.

Yep, it totally is. Why complain about evil and then join a cult that worships it?

What can I say, you are absolutely right.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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11/24/2014 1:29:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 12:40:38 PM, Emilrose wrote:
At 11/24/2014 12:28:25 PM, silverxseed wrote:
At 11/24/2014 12:19:58 PM, Emilrose wrote:
At 11/24/2014 12:02:38 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 11/24/2014 11:38:14 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 11/24/2014 10:30:09 AM, Hunter695 wrote:
God is either a sick twisted fairy tale, not all powerful, or evil. Your goal is to try and convince me otherwise. So here is my point of view, I see it as if there was a god, then why are people dying in terrible horrible ways? Why would children be being raped, why are people getting brutally murdered. I think that if god was real all these terrible things wouldn't be happening. Also what is there other than a book to say that god is real, nothing? The bible only proves that someone thought that there must be a god that created all of this, it doesn't prove anything. If god was so against certain groups of people then why do those groups exist? Why would god even create a person that might go against him? If god was real then there wouldn't be school shootings or rape, murder, drowning, fiery deaths, no one would die in these horrible ways. If god does exist then why is he letting all of this happen? Wouldn't he want to step in, and if he is just letting everything happen then why pray to him if he isn't going to do anything? Okay also if god was real and Satan was causing all of these bad things to happen why god would let Satan keep existing? Why not just kill Satan? I personally think that if god and Satan are real, then wouldn"t it make more sense to pray to the guy that has more power (Satan)? I am an atheist, but I am thinking about converting to Satanism, or atheistic Satanism. It seems to me that if god and Satan are real then Satan has more power.

Even if you do not believe in G-d-- how is converting to Satanism a logical move? By doing that you're actually proving that G-d exists; as one can't without the other.

Fact is that "evil" is largely attributed to the wrongdoing of people, not G-d.

Well yes, but evil started with Satan, who does exist and will soon be taken oput of circulation.

I agree that evil has its origins with Satan.

The main point with human beings is that "evil" has become an inclination--and an option that gets chosen. While the Satan is to blame, people are also responsible for giving into that inclination and subsequently allowing evil to manifest.

However you are right, turning to Satanism is completely illogical and irrational, even more so that denying God's existence.

Yep, it totally is. Why complain about evil and then join a cult that worships it?

Pease provide substantial evidence that satan exists, that he is an evil being, and that satanism worships evil. Just for clarification, the bible is a claim, not evidence. Go.

Why not you provide "substantial evidence" that he does not exist? How about that?

I agree. I often feel that ti is very unfair that the one bieng in teh unbiverse who has never done anythi8ng wromng should be asked to prove his existence.

Paul said that there3 was, even then, so much evidence in creation not only about God's existence but of his qualities also, that any who denied his existence were "inexcusable".

Personally I feel that the mroe we learn about our universe the more inexcusable they becoem.

Takje the recent landing of a probe on that comet.

That was successful for oen reason and one reason only. So consistent is God's creation that they knew every detail they needed to start the journey 10 years before knowing that if they followed the ruels they would be there in place and on time. And they were.

Somepeople talk ab out teh number of dollars or pounds it cost. I tend to think more of the number of lives it cost because of teh fact that the money was spent on that instead of feeding and prtoecting all those milions of people it could have saved.

That is the real evil in life today. Putting anything before any human life, other than the service and thanks we owe to God.


Unless one is assigned to the concept of nihilism; it is almost universally obvious that "evil" exists. The often used argument of: "why does G-d allow evil to happen"? is an indication of that. There is also the very evident fact that evil causes evil--and moreover, people suffer as a result of it. If it did not exist and was not a "bad" thing; then naturally neither of those things would happen.

As for satanism, again, that one is obvious. Satanism worships Satan who is regarded as an evil being, they themselves view him as being representative of evil.

Now, want to present any contradictory evidence of your own? Like proving that the Bible is exclusively a claim? Proving that G-d does not exist? Can you do that? Give it a try.

I'll just highlight: alternative explanations for the universe and people are actually "claims", and not definitive proof of anything.

Yup. It's all theories and hypotheses, and can never be any more than that.

Oh and why say G-d. Why not use his great and holy name. Jesus did, and publicised it. the Aostles did and repeated that it was the name we had to call on to be saved.

After all he chose the name himself and declared that it was to be his memorial to time indefinite. True, thanks to all the problems we do not know exactly how it should be pronounced, but I am absolutely sure that in his great mercy he will happily accept our hertfelt and genuine efforst. In english that name is jehovah. Until we are taught better, I am confident thator any other language version will do. All he expects of us is our best attempts.

Trust in Jehovah and his son with all your heart, in all your doings, and yu won't go far wrong. They care for and protect those who serve them with honest hearts. They have certanly looked after me well.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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11/24/2014 1:36:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 12:56:48 PM, silverxseed wrote:
At 11/24/2014 12:40:38 PM, Emilrose wrote:
At 11/24/2014 12:28:25 PM, silverxseed wrote:
At 11/24/2014 12:19:58 PM, Emilrose wrote:
At 11/24/2014 12:02:38 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 11/24/2014 11:38:14 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 11/24/2014 10:30:09 AM, Hunter695 wrote:
God is either a sick twisted fairy tale, not all powerful, or evil. Your goal is to try and convince me otherwise. So here is my point of view, I see it as if there was a god, then why are people dying in terrible horrible ways? Why would children be being raped, why are people getting brutally murdered. I think that if god was real all these terrible things wouldn't be happening. Also what is there other than a book to say that god is real, nothing? The bible only proves that someone thought that there must be a god that created all of this, it doesn't prove anything. If god was so against certain groups of people then why do those groups exist? Why would god even create a person that might go against him? If god was real then there wouldn't be school shootings or rape, murder, drowning, fiery deaths, no one would die in these horrible ways. If god does exist then why is he letting all of this happen? Wouldn't he want to step in, and if he is just letting everything happen then why pray to him if he isn't going to do anything? Okay also if god was real and Satan was causing all of these bad things to happen why god would let Satan keep existing? Why not just kill Satan? I personally think that if god and Satan are real, then wouldn"t it make more sense to pray to the guy that has more power (Satan)? I am an atheist, but I am thinking about converting to Satanism, or atheistic Satanism. It seems to me that if god and Satan are real then Satan has more power.

Even if you do not believe in G-d-- how is converting to Satanism a logical move? By doing that you're actually proving that G-d exists; as one can't without the other.

Fact is that "evil" is largely attributed to the wrongdoing of people, not G-d.

Well yes, but evil started with Satan, who does exist and will soon be taken oput of circulation.

I agree that evil has its origins with Satan.

The main point with human beings is that "evil" has become an inclination--and an option that gets chosen. While the Satan is to blame, people are also responsible for giving into that inclination and subsequently allowing evil to manifest.

However you are right, turning to Satanism is completely illogical and irrational, even more so that denying God's existence.

Yep, it totally is. Why complain about evil and then join a cult that worships it?

Pease provide substantial evidence that satan exists, that he is an evil being, and that satanism worships evil. Just for clarification, the bible is a claim, not evidence. Go.

Why not you provide "substantial evidence" that he does not exist? How about that?

Unless one is assigned to the concept of nihilism; it is almost universally obvious that "evil" exists. The often used argument of: "why does G-d allow evil to happen"? is an indication of that. There is also the very evident fact that evil causes evil--and moreover, people suffer as a result of it. If it did not exist and was not a "bad" thing; then naturally neither of those things would happen.

As for satanism, again, that one is obvious. Satanism worships Satan who is regarded as an evil being, they themselves view him as being representative of evil.

Now, want to present any contradictory evidence of your own? Like proving that the Bible is exclusively a claim? Proving that G-d does not exist? Can you do that? Give it a try.

I'll just highlight: alternative explanations for the universe and people are actually "claims", and not definitive proof of anything.

Because I don't have to because I'm not the one making the claim. You are. I never said Satan doesn't exist or make a claim of whether he exists or not but you did. Therefore you must present evidence to be believed. Of should we just believe any claim without evidence? I am Hercules. Prove I'm not.

I never claimed that evil doesn't exist. I asked you to provide evidence that the figure known as Satan is evil.

No. Both theistic and atheistic Satanism see Satan as a symbol of freedom, release of inhibition, and indulgence in the human condition. People so often forget even after they cite Crowley's "Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" that the next line is "Love is the law, love under will".

The bible is a claim. It has no greater veracity than anything else that I write on a piece of paper. If I entomb that paper for two thousand years and say it's true then how is it any less true than the bible? Claims require outside evidence. I could write a book saying that Genghis Kahn conquered most of Asia but it wouldn't be true without evidence, which we have through multiple contemporary accounts and archaeological evidence as well as knowing that Kahn was a real person.

I never said that god doesn't exist. You sure do like jumping to conclusions, don't you? You're making a positive claim and I'm only asking you to provide evidence. But I'll play the game. In the same vein as your question, prove to me that Zeus, Brahma, Ra, and Odin do not exist and then try to tell me why your god is more likely to be real then that lot.

No, you don't have to, but then you don't have to live either.

God exists and wants us to get to know him, to draw close to him,to look on him as a fatehr, and the best friend tyyou will ever have.

He ahs done an awfuol lot to reveal himself to us, far more than we have any right to expect. He has, in weffect, left his "signature" running all through cration like "balckpool" through a stick of Blackpool rock.

One day those who doubt him are going to have to try to justify that doubt. If you intend to be amongst them start now.

If you want to be on his side then take up his word, and his invitation as repeated by James at James 1:5-8, and when you do remember that it is to his benefit to keep his word.

If you ask for the right reasons, with an honest heart, he will answer you, and he will keep his promise.

That I know from experience.

Then stand back and wait to get mocked by all, including those who claim to be Christian but in reality aren't. They are the most reprehensible of all God's enemies.
silverxseed
Posts: 64
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11/24/2014 1:46:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 1:36:05 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 11/24/2014 12:56:48 PM, silverxseed wrote:
At 11/24/2014 12:40:38 PM, Emilrose wrote:
At 11/24/2014 12:28:25 PM, silverxseed wrote:
At 11/24/2014 12:19:58 PM, Emilrose wrote:
At 11/24/2014 12:02:38 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 11/24/2014 11:38:14 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 11/24/2014 10:30:09 AM, Hunter695 wrote:
God is either a sick twisted fairy tale, not all powerful, or evil. Your goal is to try and convince me otherwise. So here is my point of view, I see it as if there was a god, then why are people dying in terrible horrible ways? Why would children be being raped, why are people getting brutally murdered. I think that if god was real all these terrible things wouldn't be happening. Also what is there other than a book to say that god is real, nothing? The bible only proves that someone thought that there must be a god that created all of this, it doesn't prove anything. If god was so against certain groups of people then why do those groups exist? Why would god even create a person that might go against him? If god was real then there wouldn't be school shootings or rape, murder, drowning, fiery deaths, no one would die in these horrible ways. If god does exist then why is he letting all of this happen? Wouldn't he want to step in, and if he is just letting everything happen then why pray to him if he isn't going to do anything? Okay also if god was real and Satan was causing all of these bad things to happen why god would let Satan keep existing? Why not just kill Satan? I personally think that if god and Satan are real, then wouldn"t it make more sense to pray to the guy that has more power (Satan)? I am an atheist, but I am thinking about converting to Satanism, or atheistic Satanism. It seems to me that if god and Satan are real then Satan has more power.

Even if you do not believe in G-d-- how is converting to Satanism a logical move? By doing that you're actually proving that G-d exists; as one can't without the other.

Fact is that "evil" is largely attributed to the wrongdoing of people, not G-d.

Well yes, but evil started with Satan, who does exist and will soon be taken oput of circulation.

I agree that evil has its origins with Satan.

The main point with human beings is that "evil" has become an inclination--and an option that gets chosen. While the Satan is to blame, people are also responsible for giving into that inclination and subsequently allowing evil to manifest.

However you are right, turning to Satanism is completely illogical and irrational, even more so that denying God's existence.

Yep, it totally is. Why complain about evil and then join a cult that worships it?

Pease provide substantial evidence that satan exists, that he is an evil being, and that satanism worships evil. Just for clarification, the bible is a claim, not evidence. Go.

Why not you provide "substantial evidence" that he does not exist? How about that?

Unless one is assigned to the concept of nihilism; it is almost universally obvious that "evil" exists. The often used argument of: "why does G-d allow evil to happen"? is an indication of that. There is also the very evident fact that evil causes evil--and moreover, people suffer as a result of it. If it did not exist and was not a "bad" thing; then naturally neither of those things would happen.

As for satanism, again, that one is obvious. Satanism worships Satan who is regarded as an evil being, they themselves view him as being representative of evil.

Now, want to present any contradictory evidence of your own? Like proving that the Bible is exclusively a claim? Proving that G-d does not exist? Can you do that? Give it a try.

I'll just highlight: alternative explanations for the universe and people are actually "claims", and not definitive proof of anything.

Because I don't have to because I'm not the one making the claim. You are. I never said Satan doesn't exist or make a claim of whether he exists or not but you did. Therefore you must present evidence to be believed. Of should we just believe any claim without evidence? I am Hercules. Prove I'm not.

I never claimed that evil doesn't exist. I asked you to provide evidence that the figure known as Satan is evil.

No. Both theistic and atheistic Satanism see Satan as a symbol of freedom, release of inhibition, and indulgence in the human condition. People so often forget even after they cite Crowley's "Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" that the next line is "Love is the law, love under will".

The bible is a claim. It has no greater veracity than anything else that I write on a piece of paper. If I entomb that paper for two thousand years and say it's true then how is it any less true than the bible? Claims require outside evidence. I could write a book saying that Genghis Kahn conquered most of Asia but it wouldn't be true without evidence, which we have through multiple contemporary accounts and archaeological evidence as well as knowing that Kahn was a real person.

I never said that god doesn't exist. You sure do like jumping to conclusions, don't you? You're making a positive claim and I'm only asking you to provide evidence. But I'll play the game. In the same vein as your question, prove to me that Zeus, Brahma, Ra, and Odin do not exist and then try to tell me why your god is more likely to be real then that lot.

No, you don't have to, but then you don't have to live either.

God exists and wants us to get to know him, to draw close to him,to look on him as a fatehr, and the best friend tyyou will ever have.

He ahs done an awfuol lot to reveal himself to us, far more than we have any right to expect. He has, in weffect, left his "signature" running all through cration like "balckpool" through a stick of Blackpool rock.

One day those who doubt him are going to have to try to justify that doubt. If you intend to be amongst them start now.

If you want to be on his side then take up his word, and his invitation as repeated by James at James 1:5-8, and when you do remember that it is to his benefit to keep his word.

If you ask for the right reasons, with an honest heart, he will answer you, and he will keep his promise.

That I know from experience.

Then stand back and wait to get mocked by all, including those who claim to be Christian but in reality aren't. They are the most reprehensible of all God's enemies.

Your fire and brimstone isn't frightening me. You'll have to do better than that.

Showing no evidence of your existence at all isn't doing "an awful lot" when you're all powerful. Nothing is "an awful lot" when you're all powerful. If God wants humanity to know he exists then the solution is simple: reveal yourself. He did it so many times in the bible and so much more clearly than any supposed evidence of his existence than anyone can find now. One more show for little old us shouldn't be an inconvenience.
12_13
Posts: 1,361
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11/24/2014 1:49:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 10:30:09 AM, Hunter695 wrote:
... I see it as if there was a god, then why are people dying in terrible horrible ways? Why would children be being raped, why are people getting brutally murdered. I think that if god was real all these terrible things wouldn't be happening.

People wanted to know good and evil like God. Therefore we are here to learn what those really mean. Those who love more good than evil have then opportunity to come back to life.

Most assuredly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
John 5:24

And in Biblical point of view, death of a body is not the end. Therefore I think no one should worry about that.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.
Matt. 10:28-31

So, this life is like the Matrix in the movie Matrix, virtual reality that is played by bodies, while the soul or sprit is in safe. I think this lesson is good, even though this can be really hard.
MadCornishBiker
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11/24/2014 2:24:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 1:46:30 PM, silverxseed wrote:
At 11/24/2014 1:36:05 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

Then stand back and wait to get mocked by all, including those who claim to be Christian but in reality aren't. They are the most reprehensible of all God's enemies.

Your fire and brimstone isn't frightening me. You'll have to do better than that.


There is no "fire and brimstone" that is a pagan teachign dragged into Apostate Christinity to control people.

God has never even dramed of such a thing., it doesn't occur anywhere in scripture.

Showing no evidence of your existence at all isn't doing "an awful lot" when you're all powerful. Nothing is "an awful lot" when you're all powerful. If God wants humanity to know he exists then the solution is simple: reveal yourself. He did it so many times in the bible and so much more clearly than any supposed evidence of his existence than anyone can find now. One more show for little old us shouldn't be an inconvenience.

God has left us more than enough evidence for those who refuse to believe in him to eb consiudered inexcusable.

That was true in the 1st century, and science is making it increasingy true today.

Take the recent landing on a comet.

So reliable and accureate a mechanism is the universe that it was possible more than 10 years ago to work out exactly when was the best time to launch and intercept a comet and exactly what was needed to do so . When it proved impossible to launch then, theyw ere able to identify another comet and plan to intercept that one.

How accurately could a 10 year mission be carried out, with most of it comletely without motive power?

If I remember rightly they were able to touch down onyl 4 minutes late!

As Science gets deeper and deeper into microbiology the more scientists are bedoming believers, and I can point you to a numbver of stories of just such scientists from many fields, including one who was at the teim working for NASA.

If you really want to know the truth that is and aren't just looking for excuses not to believe.

Unfortunately excuses won;t by you a pass when the time comes, because God is currently making sure everyone at least has the chance to learn, and those that care enough are taking him up on it.
mortsdor
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11/24/2014 2:31:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 11:38:14 AM, Emilrose wrote:
Fact is that "evil" is largely attributed to the wrongdoing of people, not G-d.

You would admit though that there's a lot of HORRIBLE HORRIBLE things that happen in the world that are NOT the fault of people though right?

like the horrible, horrible, suffering that can accompany natural disasters... or painful medical conditions some people end up being afflicted with...

right?

Tough to see why a benevolent god wouldn't have changed the wind and currents just a touch to avoid that tsunami a few years ago... :/
mortsdor
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11/24/2014 2:33:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 12:40:38 PM, Emilrose wrote:
Pease provide substantial evidence that satan exists, that he is an evil being, and that satanism worships evil. Just for clarification, the bible is a claim, not evidence. Go.

Why not you provide "substantial evidence" that he does not exist? How about that?

mmm....

The Flying Spaghetti Monster... do we have to prove he Doesn't exist too?

How 'bout Thor? Do we have to show evidence that he doesn't exist?
LeftoverCrizack
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11/24/2014 2:44:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
To be honest I'd rather not believe and/or worship a god that even in the bible shows he is jealous of Humanity.

The story of the tower of babel explains this perfectly. Man had figured out how to use resources not god given "come let us make bricks and burn them hard", they built a tower. It could'nt of been that big of a tower as "god" had to come down to see it. He admits in the story, if they can do this they can do anything. So rather than encourage mans ingenuity and co-operation. What does he do? He destroys the tower, he then confuses mans language so they cannot understand each other and work together.

God sets in stone differences in people. So rather than one common goal, humanity is fractured. Setting the wheels in motion for War and the like. God is Evil.
MadCornishBiker
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11/24/2014 3:51:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 2:44:51 PM, LeftoverCrizack wrote:
To be honest I'd rather not believe and/or worship a god that even in the bible shows he is jealous of Humanity.
Where on earth do you get that idea from?

It makes no sense to me

The story of the tower of babel explains this perfectly. Man had figured out how to use resources not god given "come let us make bricks and burn them hard", they built a tower. It could'nt of been that big of a tower as "god" had to come down to see it. He admits in the story, if they can do this they can do anything. So rather than encourage mans ingenuity and co-operation. What does he do? He destroys the tower, he then confuses mans language so they cannot understand each other and work together.


Well you have part of the right idea, but not the motivation behind God's decision..

Persnally I think today reveals the true reasdon for his decisi9on.

Think about it.

Now we can communicate more effectively than at any time since Babel, and what is the result?

Simple. We are rapidly, destroying our own home, not just biting the hand that feeds us, but ripping it off.

Was that what God was protecting us from?

Well for sure he wouldn't want us destroyuiong ourselves before his plan had matured, so it is easy to see it as a delaying tactic.

It's OK now because not only does our destroying our planet fulfil prophecy (Revelation 11:18) but it comes close to the time when he had planned to act anyway. So, no problem. We can take the destruction a bit further before we get so far that he has to step in to save us from ourselves. How much further I do not know.

God sets in stone differences in people. So rather than one common goal, humanity is fractured. Setting the wheels in motion for War and the like. God is Evil.

It is not because of God that has happened, it is because Satan wants to divide us in order to conquer us, and so far is doing all too good a job

God wants us untied. Thus, when the time comes he will destroy all human governemeents and thsoe that clng to them, and we will be ruled solely from heavenb by the Kingdom Christ has guaranteed and set up.

He insisted that Israel be united, unti first they rejected hinmm from being king over them and thenl they proved so consistently unfaithful that he ahd to abandon them to thier fate until his son came to earth to regroup those who wished to be faithful, which he did.

1 Samuel 8:7
ASV(i) 7 And Jehovah said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee; for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not be king over them.

His son insisted that his own followers also be united, but they went the same way as the Israelites had and were also eventually allowed to fragment.

This meant a new people was needed, especially in this tme of the end, and they too would be in complete unity, and any change in belief had to be carefully examined against scripture and ratified before being adopted. That new group is now known as Jehovah's Witnesses, and scripture is thier entire religious life, and the controlling force over the rest of it also.

There will be no more repeats of that unfortnate pattern of unfaithfulness, at least, not this side of Armageddon.

The sort of unity God requires of those who are to be allowed to remian to populate this earth when it is returned to what it should be is typified by the two commands which Jesus quoted when asked what was the most important one.

Deuteronomy 6:5
ASV(i) 5 and thou shalt love Jehovah thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

and

Leviticus 19:18
ASV(i) 18 Thou shalt not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people; but thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself: I am Jehovah.

Though his last quotation was actually from the section of the verse I have highlighted.

Matthew 22:34-40
ASV(i) 34 But the Pharisees, when they heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, gathered themselves together. 35 And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question, trying him: 36 Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 And he said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second like unto it is this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. 40 On these two commandments the whole law hangeth, and the prophets.

As he said, fulfill those two laws and you ahve fulfilled the whole of the law and teh prophets, you have done everything that God requires of you.

It is not very well known that Jesus also eecnouraged sharing of their possessions at need amongst his followers:

Luke 3:10-11
ASV(i) 10 And the multitudes asked him, saying, What then must we do? 11 And he answered and said unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath food, let him do likewise.

Paul expanded that to include sharing between whole congregations.

2 Corinthians 8:14-15
ASV(i) 14 but by equality: your abundance being a supply at this present time for their want, that their abundance also may become a supply for your want; that there may be equality: 15 as it is written, He that gathered much had nothing over; and he that gathered little had no lack.

When you think of that you can understand why Jesus said the rich man would find it hard to enter the Kingdom of the Heavens. The rich had so much to lose, they had, in efect, too much, so if they were required to fill the needs of thsoe who had too little, it would not be easy for them.

People understand so little about Christianity, and that is what the JWs are trying to put right.

It is up to each one if we litsten or not,. but only by lisrtening can we make a truly informed decision. However we make our decision, informed or deliberately ignorant it will all be the same to Christ when he judges us.

None will be able to say "Wbut no-one told me" because the answer will be, "My father and Itried, why did you not listen?".

It's entirely up to you.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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11/24/2014 3:52:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 2:33:54 PM, mortsdor wrote:
At 11/24/2014 12:40:38 PM, Emilrose wrote:
Pease provide substantial evidence that satan exists, that he is an evil being, and that satanism worships evil. Just for clarification, the bible is a claim, not evidence. Go.

Why not you provide "substantial evidence" that he does not exist? How about that?

mmm....

The Flying Spaghetti Monster... do we have to prove he Doesn't exist too?

How 'bout Thor? Do we have to show evidence that he doesn't exist?

There is more than enough evidenc for that also, lol. That's what I call a real case of "Oh dear I have no answer so I'll mock instead".
mortsdor
Posts: 1,181
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11/24/2014 3:56:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 3:52:53 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 11/24/2014 2:33:54 PM, mortsdor wrote:
The Flying Spaghetti Monster... do we have to prove he Doesn't exist too?
That's what I call a real case of "Oh dear I have no answer so I'll mock instead".

Thor? countless other gods and Supernatural figures that are not currently being asserted by you/Emil-rose?

should we all have to Prove that they DON'T exist.. or should those who Assert that they Do Exist have to give evidence to that effect?
silverxseed
Posts: 64
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11/24/2014 4:08:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 2:24:21 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 11/24/2014 1:46:30 PM, silverxseed wrote:
At 11/24/2014 1:36:05 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

Then stand back and wait to get mocked by all, including those who claim to be Christian but in reality aren't. They are the most reprehensible of all God's enemies.

Your fire and brimstone isn't frightening me. You'll have to do better than that.


There is no "fire and brimstone" that is a pagan teachign dragged into Apostate Christinity to control people.

God has never even dramed of such a thing., it doesn't occur anywhere in scripture.

Showing no evidence of your existence at all isn't doing "an awful lot" when you're all powerful. Nothing is "an awful lot" when you're all powerful. If God wants humanity to know he exists then the solution is simple: reveal yourself. He did it so many times in the bible and so much more clearly than any supposed evidence of his existence than anyone can find now. One more show for little old us shouldn't be an inconvenience.

God has left us more than enough evidence for those who refuse to believe in him to eb consiudered inexcusable.

That was true in the 1st century, and science is making it increasingy true today.

Take the recent landing on a comet.

So reliable and accureate a mechanism is the universe that it was possible more than 10 years ago to work out exactly when was the best time to launch and intercept a comet and exactly what was needed to do so . When it proved impossible to launch then, theyw ere able to identify another comet and plan to intercept that one.

How accurately could a 10 year mission be carried out, with most of it comletely without motive power?

If I remember rightly they were able to touch down onyl 4 minutes late!

As Science gets deeper and deeper into microbiology the more scientists are bedoming believers, and I can point you to a numbver of stories of just such scientists from many fields, including one who was at the teim working for NASA.

If you really want to know the truth that is and aren't just looking for excuses not to believe.

Unfortunately excuses won;t by you a pass when the time comes, because God is currently making sure everyone at least has the chance to learn, and those that care enough are taking him up on it.

Yes, yes there is. Have you ever heard of Sodom and Gamorrah? The God of the bible is incredibly vengeful and violent, ready to kill at a moment's notice. Take The Flood, the conquests of the Isrealites across the Middle East, and the Plagues of Egypt. Are we reading from the same book, here?

The comet landing took no such divine intervention or perfectly tuned universe. It was humans as pure human ingenuity that accomplished such a feat.

Obviously God hasn't provided enough evidence. You know what would be evidence? If be showed himself. Rather a simple prospect. Also, inexcusable? Are you seriously saying that people going to hell is justified? If so that's honestly deplorable.

"Unfortunately excuses won't buy you a pass" still not intimidated. Perhaps you should try something else than trying to give theological reasoning to one who obviously isn't buying it.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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11/24/2014 4:17:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 10:30:09 AM, Hunter695 wrote:
God is either a sick twisted fairy tale, not all powerful, or evil. Your goal is to try and convince me otherwise. So here is my point of view, I see it as if there was a god, then why are people dying in terrible horrible ways? Why would children be being raped, why are people getting brutally murdered. I think that if god was real all these terrible things wouldn't be happening. Also what is there other than a book to say that god is real, nothing? The bible only proves that someone thought that there must be a god that created all of this, it doesn't prove anything. If god was so against certain groups of people then why do those groups exist? Why would god even create a person that might go against him? If god was real then there wouldn't be school shootings or rape, murder, drowning, fiery deaths, no one would die in these horrible ways. If god does exist then why is he letting all of this happen? Wouldn't he want to step in, and if he is just letting everything happen then why pray to him if he isn't going to do anything? Okay also if god was real and Satan was causing all of these bad things to happen why god would let Satan keep existing? Why not just kill Satan? I personally think that if god and Satan are real, then wouldn"t it make more sense to pray to the guy that has more power (Satan)? I am an atheist, but I am thinking about converting to Satanism, or atheistic Satanism. It seems to me that if god and Satan are real then Satan has more power.

You already are a Satanist, only you are making yourself into the Satan as god to yourself. You go on calling on evil spriits and see if you don't find them, and see if you are happy with them in Hell when you are confined there with them. Your arguing against God is only destroying yourself and the devil is cheering you on as his only means of striking back at God who loves you.
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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11/24/2014 4:18:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 4:17:45 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 11/24/2014 10:30:09 AM, Hunter695 wrote:
God is either a sick twisted fairy tale, not all powerful, or evil. Your goal is to try and convince me otherwise. So here is my point of view, I see it as if there was a god, then why are people dying in terrible horrible ways? Why would children be being raped, why are people getting brutally murdered. I think that if god was real all these terrible things wouldn't be happening. Also what is there other than a book to say that god is real, nothing? The bible only proves that someone thought that there must be a god that created all of this, it doesn't prove anything. If god was so against certain groups of people then why do those groups exist? Why would god even create a person that might go against him? If god was real then there wouldn't be school shootings or rape, murder, drowning, fiery deaths, no one would die in these horrible ways. If god does exist then why is he letting all of this happen? Wouldn't he want to step in, and if he is just letting everything happen then why pray to him if he isn't going to do anything? Okay also if god was real and Satan was causing all of these bad things to happen why god would let Satan keep existing? Why not just kill Satan? I personally think that if god and Satan are real, then wouldn"t it make more sense to pray to the guy that has more power (Satan)? I am an atheist, but I am thinking about converting to Satanism, or atheistic Satanism. It seems to me that if god and Satan are real then Satan has more power.


You already are a Satanist, only you are making yourself into the Satan as god to yourself. You go on calling on evil spriits and see if you don't find them, and see if you are happy with them in Hell when you are confined there with them. Your arguing against God is only destroying yourself and the devil is cheering you on as his only means of striking back at God who loves you.

What's wrong with being a satanist
scmike2
Posts: 946
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11/24/2014 4:28:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
: Thor? countless other gods and Supernatural figures that are not currently being asserted by you/Emil-rose? should we all have to Prove that they DON'T exist..

or should those who Assert that they Do Exist have to give evidence to that effect?


Hey mortsdor, it's nice to meet you! I am new to this site and happened upon this discussion just now. If you and the others don't mind me chiming in, the simple answer to your question is that EVERYONE knows that the God of the Bible exists (Romans 1:18-22), but some choose to suppress that truth in unrighteousness in a myriad of ways (like positing made-up deities that they know do not exist, a la Thor, the FSM, etc for example) to try to compete with the Christian claim.

As for you mischaracterization of God as 'evil', you are assuming that God does not have a morally sufficient reason for everything that He allows to take place in the universe, known at least to Him. What is your rational justification for that assumption? B back tomorrow!
scmike2
Posts: 946
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11/24/2014 4:36:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Obviously God hasn't provided enough evidence. You know what would be evidence? If be showed himself. Rather a simple prospect. Also, inexcusable? Are you seriously saying that people going to hell is justified? If so that's honestly deplorable.

Hi silverxseed! See my comments to mortsdor. Your thoughts?
mortsdor
Posts: 1,181
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11/24/2014 4:43:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 4:28:15 PM, scmike2 wrote:
If you and the others don't mind me chiming in, the simple answer to your question is that EVERYONE knows that the God of the Bible exists (Romans 1:18-22)

so you would accuse me of lying when I say I don't believe in God?

I guess that's the end of the conversation then huh?

How can we discuss something if we start off the conversation by presuming that the other person is lying from the get go?

What's to discuss?

As for you mischaracterization of God as 'evil'

I never said that.. I said it's tough to imagine why a benevolent god would allow horrible things to happen in the world which Seem as though they have No good reason behind them... like the Tsunami a few years back.

I don't think god's evil... I don't think there is a god.

you are assuming that God does not have a morally sufficient reason for everything that He allows to take place in the universe, known at least to Him.

I cannot comprehend their being a good reason (from what I consider good) to have allowed the Tsunami to kill and maim, and destroy and cause so much suffering to so many innocent people.

It's hard for me to comprehend a Benevolent god allowing such a thing.. or building such a thing into his Plans..

What is your rational justification for that assumption? B back tomorrow!

I argue from what I know...

I base what I think upon my perspective.. and try not to make claims that exceed the limits of my perspective.

I cannot understand how a Benevolent god could build such a Horrible travesty full of Unecessary suffering, into his plan.

So, until or unless I can come to fathom that as being possible.. I will accept the fact that, to me, it seems impossible.
LeftoverCrizack
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11/24/2014 4:54:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 3:51:34 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 11/24/2014 2:44:51 PM, LeftoverCrizack wrote:
To be honest I'd rather not believe and/or worship a god that even in the bible shows he is jealous of Humanity.
Where on earth do you get that idea from?

It makes no sense to me

The story of the tower of babel explains this perfectly. Man had figured out how to use resources not god given "come let us make bricks and burn them hard", they built a tower. It could'nt of been that big of a tower as "god" had to come down to see it. He admits in the story, if they can do this they can do anything. So rather than encourage mans ingenuity and co-operation. What does he do? He destroys the tower, he then confuses mans language so they cannot understand each other and work together.


Well you have part of the right idea, but not the motivation behind God's decision..

Persnally I think today reveals the true reasdon for his decisi9on.

Think about it.

Now we can communicate more effectively than at any time since Babel, and what is the result?

Simple. We are rapidly, destroying our own home, not just biting the hand that feeds us, but ripping it off.

Was that what God was protecting us from?

Well for sure he wouldn't want us destroyuiong ourselves before his plan had matured, so it is easy to see it as a delaying tactic.

It's OK now because not only does our destroying our planet fulfil prophecy (Revelation 11:18) but it comes close to the time when he had planned to act anyway. So, no problem. We can take the destruction a bit further before we get so far that he has to step in to save us from ourselves. How much further I do not know.

God sets in stone differences in people. So rather than one common goal, humanity is fractured. Setting the wheels in motion for War and the like. God is Evil.

It is not because of God that has happened, it is because Satan wants to divide us in order to conquer us, and so far is doing all too good a job

God wants us untied. Thus, when the time comes he will destroy all human governemeents and thsoe that clng to them, and we will be ruled solely from heavenb by the Kingdom Christ has guaranteed and set up.

He insisted that Israel be united, unti first they rejected hinmm from being king over them and thenl they proved so consistently unfaithful that he ahd to abandon them to thier fate until his son came to earth to regroup those who wished to be faithful, which he did.

1 Samuel 8:7
ASV(i) 7 And Jehovah said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee; for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not be king over them.

His son insisted that his own followers also be united, but they went the same way as the Israelites had and were also eventually allowed to fragment.

This meant a new people was needed, especially in this tme of the end, and they too would be in complete unity, and any change in belief had to be carefully examined against scripture and ratified before being adopted. That new group is now known as Jehovah's Witnesses, and scripture is thier entire religious life, and the controlling force over the rest of it also.

There will be no more repeats of that unfortnate pattern of unfaithfulness, at least, not this side of Armageddon.

The sort of unity God requires of those who are to be allowed to remian to populate this earth when it is returned to what it should be is typified by the two commands which Jesus quoted when asked what was the most important one.

Deuteronomy 6:5
ASV(i) 5 and thou shalt love Jehovah thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

and

Leviticus 19:18
ASV(i) 18 Thou shalt not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people; but thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself: I am Jehovah.

Though his last quotation was actually from the section of the verse I have highlighted.

Matthew 22:34-40
ASV(i) 34 But the Pharisees, when they heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, gathered themselves together. 35 And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question, trying him: 36 Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 And he said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second like unto it is this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. 40 On these two commandments the whole law hangeth, and the prophets.

As he said, fulfill those two laws and you ahve fulfilled the whole of the law and teh prophets, you have done everything that God requires of you.

It is not very well known that Jesus also eecnouraged sharing of their possessions at need amongst his followers:

Luke 3:10-11
ASV(i) 10 And the multitudes asked him, saying, What then must we do? 11 And he answered and said unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath food, let him do likewise.

Paul expanded that to include sharing between whole congregations.

2 Corinthians 8:14-15
ASV(i) 14 but by equality: your abundance being a supply at this present time for their want, that their abundance also may become a supply for your want; that there may be equality: 15 as it is written, He that gathered much had nothing over; and he that gathered little had no lack.

When you think of that you can understand why Jesus said the rich man would find it hard to enter the Kingdom of the Heavens. The rich had so much to lose, they had, in efect, too much, so if they were required to fill the needs of thsoe who had too little, it would not be easy for them.

People understand so little about Christianity, and that is what the JWs are trying to put right.

It is up to each one if we litsten or not,. but only by lisrtening can we make a truly informed decision. However we make our decision, informed or deliberately ignorant it will all be the same to Christ when he judges us.

None will be able to say "Wbut no-one told me" because the answer will be, "My father and Itried, why did you not listen?".

It's entirely up to you.

We can communicate more effectively yes. But the point remains, humanity at that point had one common language, one common goal. God fractured that, and now despite leaps in technology that allow communication between people. Great divisions remain between cultures and people. This is Gods doing.

And God is maybe not jealous of humanity but at least envious. We can as he recocgnised when working together as one acheive anything and we don't need him to do it. He essentialy threw his toys out of the pram.

The prophecy you mention isn't true of today anyway, we may be damaging OUR enviroment at the moment. But we a far from destroying the earth, the earth has survived worse than we could ever throw at it.

And your passages calling for people to be united are not wanting humans to be united for humanity, its unity under the flag of god.