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ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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11/24/2014 10:06:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I would like to invite atheists mostly for this discussion.

Atheists, have you ever considered other religions in the realm of theism? If you were a former theist, what drove you away? Was it the superstition, the laws, etc....

Post your story or comments and let's get an OPEN MINDED discussion going.
mortsdor
Posts: 1,181
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11/24/2014 10:11:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 10:06:51 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I would like to invite atheists mostly for this discussion.

Atheists, have you ever considered other religions in the realm of theism?
Considering Protestantism led me to begin questioning Catholicism...

If you were a former theist, what drove you away? Was it the superstition, the laws, etc....

Realizing that there was no good reason to believe in the claims my religion made.

Post your story or comments and let's get an OPEN MINDED discussion going.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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11/24/2014 10:17:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 10:11:55 PM, mortsdor wrote:
At 11/24/2014 10:06:51 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I would like to invite atheists mostly for this discussion.

Atheists, have you ever considered other religions in the realm of theism?
Considering Protestantism led me to begin questioning Catholicism...

If you were a former theist, what drove you away? Was it the superstition, the laws, etc....

Realizing that there was no good reason to believe in the claims my religion made.

Post your story or comments and let's get an OPEN MINDED discussion going.

What made it seem like no good reason?
mortsdor
Posts: 1,181
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11/24/2014 10:22:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 10:17:38 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
What made it seem like no good reason?

Because I couldn't come up with any good reasons...

....

initially I couldn't come up with any good reason to think Martin Luther was wrong in his points against the Catholic church...

then I continued looking to the claims of my religion.... and couldn't come up with any reason to think that the Bible has special claim to describing god... or that Jesus is god... or that a god as described by Catholicism exists.. or that any god exists at all..

What made it seem that there wasn't any good reason to believe in that stuff was that upon looking, I couldn't find any good reason to believe in that stuff.

Eventually (not all at once) I came to realize that I no longer believed in it.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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11/24/2014 10:25:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 10:22:32 PM, mortsdor wrote:
At 11/24/2014 10:17:38 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
What made it seem like no good reason?

Because I couldn't come up with any good reasons...

....

initially I couldn't come up with any good reason to think Martin Luther was wrong in his points against the Catholic church...

then I continued looking to the claims of my religion.... and couldn't come up with any reason to think that the Bible has special claim to describing god... or that Jesus is god... or that a god as described by Catholicism exists.. or that any god exists at all..

What made it seem that there wasn't any good reason to believe in that stuff was that upon looking, I couldn't find any good reason to believe in that stuff.

Eventually (not all at once) I came to realize that I no longer believed in it.

So you explored the protestant views?

Do you think it's possible that an invisible deity or creator could exist? Does Deism actually sound as reasonable as the people claimed it to be?
mortsdor
Posts: 1,181
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11/24/2014 10:31:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 10:25:42 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
So you explored the protestant views?

at the time I was more focused on Martin Luther's criticisms of the church...

but I have since become further acquainted with protestantism..

Do you think it's possible that an invisible deity or creator could exist?

Could Exist... ?

I suppose, though I don't see any reason to think so...

Does Deism actually sound as reasonable as the people claimed it to be?

I don't think it's very reasonable to be a deist b/c I don't think there's any good reason to believe in god... be said god Active or Not.
bulproof
Posts: 25,211
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11/24/2014 10:31:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Deism is the god you have when you haven't got a god.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
miraculous
Posts: 139
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11/24/2014 10:42:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 10:06:51 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I would like to invite atheists mostly for this discussion.

Atheists, have you ever considered other religions in the realm of theism? If you were a former theist, what drove you away? Was it the superstition, the laws, etc....

Post your story or comments and let's get an OPEN MINDED discussion going.
If I had to consider at least one religion, it'd have be one that's not universalizing.

I was actually raised in a community where the minority was the majority. And for some reason they all turned to Christianity and mainly Catholicism when in time of hardship. There was even a program set up in the area to teach children about christian doctrine. My relatives forced me to enroll at the institution to you know, "purify" my soul and things like that. Luckily for me, Christianity just didn't click despite the numerous mantras that were repeated every few seconds.
If I went back in time and murdered my grandmother, therefor preventing my existence, then who killed my grandmother?
That1User
Posts: 1,064
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11/24/2014 10:45:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
What drove me away from Christianity:
1)The various atrocities done or commanded by God in the Bible
(ie allowing sin to be entered in the world, The Flood, The Plagues commanding genocide.)
(http://infidels.org...)
2)The Doctrine of Hell. (Finite crimes does not warrant infinite punishment, murderes and rapists can enter eternal paradise (Heaven) while a good person can enter eternal torture (Hell) for simply not believing in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.)
3) The Problem of Evil
4) Lack of evidence for the Christian God (or any God for that matter.)
"Our life is what our thoughts make it."
R13; Marcus Aurelius
"When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -Marcus Aurelius
"Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." -Voltaire
"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do. "-Voltaire
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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11/24/2014 10:52:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 10:31:12 PM, mortsdor wrote:
At 11/24/2014 10:25:42 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
So you explored the protestant views?

at the time I was more focused on Martin Luther's criticisms of the church...

but I have since become further acquainted with protestantism..

Do you think it's possible that an invisible deity or creator could exist?

Could Exist... ?

I suppose, though I don't see any reason to think so...

Does Deism actually sound as reasonable as the people claimed it to be?

I don't think it's very reasonable to be a deist b/c I don't think there's any good reason to believe in god... be said god Active or Not.

Do you think if a god is as powerful as the claims are, then his interaction is a unique experience we learn? Like knowledge is not from facts like scientific knowledge, but it's like guitar when it comes to experience. Would experience explain somebody's god?
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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11/24/2014 10:56:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 10:45:34 PM, That1User wrote:
What drove me away from Christianity:
1)The various atrocities done or commanded by God in the Bible
(ie allowing sin to be entered in the world, The Flood, The Plagues commanding genocide.)
(http://infidels.org...)
2)The Doctrine of Hell. (Finite crimes does not warrant infinite punishment, murderes and rapists can enter eternal paradise (Heaven) while a good person can enter eternal torture (Hell) for simply not believing in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.)
3) The Problem of Evil
4) Lack of evidence for the Christian God (or any God for that matter.)

Well if there were no evil in the world, then it would be a bad society if it had no free will or a high fascist system.

Examples would be an idea from the anime Psycho Pass, the system in the law of the anime involves a determinism view.

https://www.youtube.com...
That1User
Posts: 1,064
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11/24/2014 11:01:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 10:56:52 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 11/24/2014 10:45:34 PM, That1User wrote:
What drove me away from Christianity:
1)The various atrocities done or commanded by God in the Bible
(ie allowing sin to be entered in the world, The Flood, The Plagues commanding genocide.)
(http://infidels.org...)
2)The Doctrine of Hell. (Finite crimes does not warrant infinite punishment, murderes and rapists can enter eternal paradise (Heaven) while a good person can enter eternal torture (Hell) for simply not believing in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.)
3) The Problem of Evil
4) Lack of evidence for the Christian God (or any God for that matter.)

Well if there were no evil in the world, then it would be a bad society if it had no free will or a high fascist system.

Examples would be an idea from the anime Psycho Pass, the system in the law of the anime involves a determinism view.

https://www.youtube.com...

If there was no evil in the world, there would be no rape, murder, torture, war, hate, depression, anger, violence etc. If there was no evil everyone would he happy and help one another. I don't understand why a good God would alow his creation to suffer from so much evil.
"Our life is what our thoughts make it."
R13; Marcus Aurelius
"When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -Marcus Aurelius
"Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." -Voltaire
"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do. "-Voltaire
bulproof
Posts: 25,211
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11/24/2014 11:09:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 10:56:52 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 11/24/2014 10:45:34 PM, That1User wrote:
What drove me away from Christianity:
1)The various atrocities done or commanded by God in the Bible
(ie allowing sin to be entered in the world, The Flood, The Plagues commanding genocide.)
(http://infidels.org...)
2)The Doctrine of Hell. (Finite crimes does not warrant infinite punishment, murderes and rapists can enter eternal paradise (Heaven) while a good person can enter eternal torture (Hell) for simply not believing in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.)
3) The Problem of Evil
4) Lack of evidence for the Christian God (or any God for that matter.)

Well if there were no evil in the world, then it would be a bad society if it had no free will or a high fascist system.

Examples would be an idea from the anime Psycho Pass, the system in the law of the anime involves a determinism view.

https://www.youtube.com...

So obviously there will be no free will in heaven, since evil is a direct consequence of free will and there will be no evil in heaven.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
That1User
Posts: 1,064
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11/24/2014 11:11:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 10:56:52 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 11/24/2014 10:45:34 PM, That1User wrote:
What drove me away from Christianity:
1)The various atrocities done or commanded by God in the Bible
(ie allowing sin to be entered in the world, The Flood, The Plagues commanding genocide.)
(http://infidels.org...)
2)The Doctrine of Hell. (Finite crimes does not warrant infinite punishment, murderes and rapists can enter eternal paradise (Heaven) while a good person can enter eternal torture (Hell) for simply not believing in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.)
3) The Problem of Evil
4) Lack of evidence for the Christian God (or any God for that matter.)

Well if there were no evil in the world, then it would be a bad society if it had no free will or a high fascist system.

Examples would be an idea from the anime Psycho Pass, the system in the law of the anime involves a determinism view.

https://www.youtube.com...

The link to that anime review is invalid to this argument. This is because there is crime in that anime, which is a form of evil. If there was no evil there would be no crime, hence that anime review being invalid in this argument. (Thanks for the anime review though! I found it interesting. Perhaps I will watch it.)
"Our life is what our thoughts make it."
R13; Marcus Aurelius
"When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -Marcus Aurelius
"Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." -Voltaire
"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do. "-Voltaire
That1User
Posts: 1,064
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11/24/2014 11:13:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 11:09:47 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/24/2014 10:56:52 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 11/24/2014 10:45:34 PM, That1User wrote:
What drove me away from Christianity:
1)The various atrocities done or commanded by God in the Bible
(ie allowing sin to be entered in the world, The Flood, The Plagues commanding genocide.)
(http://infidels.org...)
2)The Doctrine of Hell. (Finite crimes does not warrant infinite punishment, murderes and rapists can enter eternal paradise (Heaven) while a good person can enter eternal torture (Hell) for simply not believing in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.)
3) The Problem of Evil
4) Lack of evidence for the Christian God (or any God for that matter.)

Well if there were no evil in the world, then it would be a bad society if it had no free will or a high fascist system.

Examples would be an idea from the anime Psycho Pass, the system in the law of the anime involves a determinism view.

https://www.youtube.com...

So obviously there will be no free will in heaven, since evil is a direct consequence of free will and there will be no evil in heaven.
Yeah it would make more sense for God to have Earth be like Heaven.
"Our life is what our thoughts make it."
R13; Marcus Aurelius
"When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -Marcus Aurelius
"Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." -Voltaire
"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do. "-Voltaire
silverxseed
Posts: 64
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11/24/2014 11:13:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 10:56:52 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 11/24/2014 10:45:34 PM, That1User wrote:
What drove me away from Christianity:
1)The various atrocities done or commanded by God in the Bible
(ie allowing sin to be entered in the world, The Flood, The Plagues commanding genocide.)
(http://infidels.org...)
2)The Doctrine of Hell. (Finite crimes does not warrant infinite punishment, murderes and rapists can enter eternal paradise (Heaven) while a good person can enter eternal torture (Hell) for simply not believing in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.)
3) The Problem of Evil
4) Lack of evidence for the Christian God (or any God for that matter.)

Well if there were no evil in the world, then it would be a bad society if it had no free will or a high fascist system.

Examples would be an idea from the anime Psycho Pass, the system in the law of the anime involves a determinism view.

https://www.youtube.com...

Not necessarily. If there was no evil then by definition society would be at it's best. Psycho Pass is a really and example of a utopia as it isn't utopian at all, actually it's outlook is fairly dystopian.

The point is that the Abrahamic god didn't have to create a world knowing that terrible things would happen but be did even in his omniscient and omnipotent state of being. That would qualify him as evil.

Let's take the "no evil" thing this way. If I'm an omnipotent deity I can simply make it so that any human being can still think about doing any harmful thing to another if they so wish. However, I can also make it so that any attempt to carry out something such as murder simply won't work(i.e. a person can put a knife as close to they want to another person's throat but it simply can't get close enough to their skin to harm them, like the two same poles of magnets). This would in no way impede the free will of any human being but simply restrain them from carrying out an action. After all, this doesn't take away the ability for a person to will themselves to do these things, only that these things won't come into fruition.
That1User
Posts: 1,064
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11/24/2014 11:16:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 11:13:41 PM, silverxseed wrote:
At 11/24/2014 10:56:52 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 11/24/2014 10:45:34 PM, That1User wrote:
What drove me away from Christianity:
1)The various atrocities done or commanded by God in the Bible
(ie allowing sin to be entered in the world, The Flood, The Plagues commanding genocide.)
(http://infidels.org...)
2)The Doctrine of Hell. (Finite crimes does not warrant infinite punishment, murderes and rapists can enter eternal paradise (Heaven) while a good person can enter eternal torture (Hell) for simply not believing in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.)
3) The Problem of Evil
4) Lack of evidence for the Christian God (or any God for that matter.)

Well if there were no evil in the world, then it would be a bad society if it had no free will or a high fascist system.

Examples would be an idea from the anime Psycho Pass, the system in the law of the anime involves a determinism view.

https://www.youtube.com...

Not necessarily. If there was no evil then by definition society would be at it's best. Psycho Pass is a really and example of a utopia as it isn't utopian at all, actually it's outlook is fairly dystopian.

The point is that the Abrahamic god didn't have to create a world knowing that terrible things would happen but be did even in his omniscient and omnipotent state of being. That would qualify him as evil.

Let's take the "no evil" thing this way. If I'm an omnipotent deity I can simply make it so that any human being can still think about doing any harmful thing to another if they so wish. However, I can also make it so that any attempt to carry out something such as murder simply won't work(i.e. a person can put a knife as close to they want to another person's throat but it simply can't get close enough to their skin to harm them, like the two same poles of magnets). This would in no way impede the free will of any human being but simply restrain them from carrying out an action. After all, this doesn't take away the ability for a person to will themselves to do these things, only that these things won't come into fruition.
That example is perfect.
"Our life is what our thoughts make it."
R13; Marcus Aurelius
"When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -Marcus Aurelius
"Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." -Voltaire
"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do. "-Voltaire
silverxseed
Posts: 64
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11/24/2014 11:27:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I may as well post my origins. I'd just like to clarify that I am not a gnostic atheist, rather I consider myself to be agnostic. My seperation from my Christian upbringing is much the same as That1User's. I began to question the supposed goodness of the Abrahamic God due to the deplorable actions that I read from the bible or even heard by the popular Sunday school versions of various bible stories. Specifically, as a child I began to be unsettled by a particular scene in the Dreamworks film The Prince of Egypt in which the god of the Hebrews brings down his final plague among all the firstborn of Egypt. I began to think "If God is good then why is he killing babies and little kids? That isn't good. Why is he killing people at all?", and so I began to read more into the bible and found more things that I found to be reprehensible. Of course, so too came things sig as the problem of evil and the idea of hell and the lack of evidence for the claim of god.

Though, I am not directly opposed to the idea of a deity-like figure. Quite the opposite, I would be very interested in how this being works and what abilities they possess(this is probably a result of my love of fiction of the fantastical, scientific, as well as the paranormal. However, I have no interest at all in becoming a servant of bowing down to kiss the feet of anything. And I am much less interested in the prospect of a deity that is omnipotent and yet stands idly by as so much suffering is present in the world.

As far as considering faiths goes I suppose that the one that I like the best would probably be a path that would be considered Pagan, maybe something like Wicca. I really do like the nature basis of the religion as well as it's simple and non-judgemental or hellfire and brimstone philosophy. There is no actual holy text in the faith only guidelines in the Reed and the Three Fold Law, both of which are pretty common sense "do unto others" type of teachings. It all seems very personal and even rather beautiful. But alas, I remain an agnostic.

Boy this turned out to be long.
PeacefulChaos
Posts: 2,610
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11/24/2014 11:30:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 10:56:52 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 11/24/2014 10:45:34 PM, That1User wrote:
What drove me away from Christianity:
1)The various atrocities done or commanded by God in the Bible
(ie allowing sin to be entered in the world, The Flood, The Plagues commanding genocide.)
(http://infidels.org...)
2)The Doctrine of Hell. (Finite crimes does not warrant infinite punishment, murderes and rapists can enter eternal paradise (Heaven) while a good person can enter eternal torture (Hell) for simply not believing in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.)
3) The Problem of Evil
4) Lack of evidence for the Christian God (or any God for that matter.)

Well if there were no evil in the world, then it would be a bad society if it had no free will or a high fascist system.

Examples would be an idea from the anime Psycho Pass, the system in the law of the anime involves a determinism view.

https://www.youtube.com...

Osnap

You watch anime, too?

Sorry, this isn't the place for talking about anime, but I just noticed :)
silverxseed
Posts: 64
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11/24/2014 11:34:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Oh, and I forgot to mention that I have an issue with any deity that outright demands worship, even worse if they give humanity the ultimatum of "worship me or else". My thought for years now has been "Why? Is this just an ego thing?".
That1User
Posts: 1,064
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11/24/2014 11:47:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Here is what I posted from "Why are you an atheist?" Forum
Being from a Christian family and having Christian friends reading the Bible was encouraged. I was familiar with the New Testament, especially the Gospels but unfamiliar with the Old Testament. Upon reading some of the Old Testament, I was horrified, particularly verses on wars and battles.
("Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and donkey." -Samuel 15:3)
This verse horrified me and I thought "How can a loving and merciful god command the death of innocent women and children?" (In fact, Saul was punished by God for sparing the King of the Amaleks and his family as well as the best livestock of the Alameks.)

This began to make me think of other things God did in the Bible, such as creating the Tree of Knowledge, knowing that Adam and Eve would eat out the fruit, and thus having sin enter in the world. And this was all part of God's plan.

This also made me think of how a merciful and loving god requires a plan that includes rape, murder, war, torture, poverty, disease, natural diasters, child molestation, pain, suffering, depression, genoicide etc.

Then onto the punishment for sin, Hell. According to the Bible people are to be burned for eternity for their sins. An internal punishment for finite crimes. I thought it would be a more just system for people to be punished for there sins by having all their wrongs comminted against others be done unto them.

It could be argued, however, that some people deserve to go to Hell, such as murders, rapists, and those who comitted mass genoicide. But even those people can get into Heaven if they accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.
If one does not believe in Jesus Christ, however, and has only comitted one sin (such as lying to one's parents), they will be sent to Hell, even if they were a good person

There is also the issue that only about 2 billion people are Christians, only about 2/7 of the World's population. Which means 5 billion people are destined to H*ll. It would make more sense for God to just reveal himself to the world and turn everyone to a Christian so that everyone will be saved, but no such event has ever happened before.

All of these things did not make sense. Throughout my whole life I was taught and I thought that God was loving, just, and merciful to all. But upon thinking about these things God seemed to be hateful, unjust, and merciless. Then I thought to my self "What if there is no God at all?"

Upon researching and thinking about the existance of God, I saw that there was little evidence for the existance of the Christian God aside from the Bible. This foundation in one book leads commonly to circular reasoning, and it doesn't make sense logically.

The acumulation of all these problems lead me to the conclusion that the Christian God most likely does not exist. Oddly I still pray to the Christian God once in a while, so I regard myself as either a secular Christian or an agnostic theist. Logically the existance of the Christian God does not make sense, but emotionally I'm still tied to Christianity.

(Censorship used so that this post could be posted on this forum)
"Our life is what our thoughts make it."
R13; Marcus Aurelius
"When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -Marcus Aurelius
"Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." -Voltaire
"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do. "-Voltaire
mortsdor
Posts: 1,181
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11/25/2014 1:45:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 10:52:58 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
Do you think if a god is as powerful as the claims are, then his interaction is a unique experience we learn? Like knowledge is not from facts like scientific knowledge, but it's like guitar when it comes to experience. Would experience explain somebody's god?

If people genuinely feel as though they've had direct interaction/experience with a God, then I doubt they'd ever say they don't believe in that god....

I know that I was very much a believer when I was young, and I thought about God and Jesus, and the nature of people and their relationship with god A LOT when I was young...

I know that my considering the sacrifices of Jesus for humanity would often leave me crying and rather emotional..

I felt connected to God, the idea of God, and his purposes Resonated with me... though I wouldn't say I'd had direct interaction from God.

Shortly after this period I began trying to understand Why my Church had it right, and why My conception of God was right.. etc etc...

Shortly after this period I realized I couldn't answer those questions... Shortly after this period I realized I no longer believed.

One might think they're experiencing God... one might think they've had a long history of experiencing God.... But I think it likely they just feel emotionally connected to the idea of god, not that they're actually interacting with another bieng...

They may draw supposed insights out of such continued experience throughout their life, but I don't think those insights are of great actual value or are necessarily very insightful in reality.

Perhaps people get better at playing a pretty tune on their imaginary guitar.. but that doesn't mean much to those who think the guitar imaginary....
That1User
Posts: 1,064
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11/25/2014 2:34:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/25/2014 1:45:14 AM, mortsdor wrote:
At 11/24/2014 10:52:58 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
Do you think if a god is as powerful as the claims are, then his interaction is a unique experience we learn? Like knowledge is not from facts like scientific knowledge, but it's like guitar when it comes to experience. Would experience explain somebody's god?

If people genuinely feel as though they've had direct interaction/experience with a God, then I doubt they'd ever say they don't believe in that god....

I know that I was very much a believer when I was young, and I thought about God and Jesus, and the nature of people and their relationship with god A LOT when I was young...

I know that my considering the sacrifices of Jesus for humanity would often leave me crying and rather emotional..

I felt connected to God, the idea of God, and his purposes Resonated with me... though I wouldn't say I'd had direct interaction from God.

Shortly after this period I began trying to understand Why my Church had it right, and why My conception of God was right.. etc etc...

Shortly after this period I realized I couldn't answer those questions... Shortly after this period I realized I no longer believed.

One might think they're experiencing God... one might think they've had a long history of experiencing God.... But I think it likely they just feel emotionally connected to the idea of god, not that they're actually interacting with another bieng...

They may draw supposed insights out of such continued experience throughout their life, but I don't think those insights are of great actual value or are necessarily very insightful in reality.

Perhaps people get better at playing a pretty tune on their imaginary guitar.. but that doesn't mean much to those who think the guitar imaginary....
Exactly my position, mort, I still have an emotional connection to God and Christianity, even though it does not make sense to me logically
"Our life is what our thoughts make it."
R13; Marcus Aurelius
"When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -Marcus Aurelius
"Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." -Voltaire
"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do. "-Voltaire
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,095
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11/25/2014 12:03:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 10:06:51 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I would like to invite atheists mostly for this discussion.

Atheists, have you ever considered other religions in the realm of theism?

Denominations of Christianity...

If you were a former theist, what drove you away? Was it the superstition, the laws, etc....

1.The "relationship" I had with god was one sided. It was a conversation I had for myself with myself.
2.Religious people did not appear to be guided by anything other than their own desires wrapped up in a pretend authority.
3.The contradictions between religious and scientific explanations of nature were problematic for me as a theist. Science has explanations which are backed by what we actually see, and religion requires faith (of which I had very little left).

Now, anytime I have a discussion with a theist in the real world (family members/friends) it nevers fails they hold some beliefs with little or no critical thinking involved. (much as I did when I was a theist). Many people in my area believe the Bible is infallible, and are simply not willing to consider any evidence which suggests otherwise.

Post your story or comments and let's get an OPEN MINDED discussion going.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Lukas8
Posts: 31
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11/25/2014 12:11:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
It isnt a Quite old story. I was mainly forced to do religion. But i never bellieved it totally, since i already knew science. Then i got sceptical, thats when i was allowed not to go to sunday school. But hey why is the Homo Sapiens so special, there are so many species of living things that god never mentioned but he loves them, like (protists,protozoa,bacteria,fungi,ETs)... what about other aliens, why cant they enjoy our evil rascist religions.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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11/25/2014 12:55:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 10:06:51 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I would like to invite atheists mostly for this discussion.

Atheists, have you ever considered other religions in the realm of theism? If you were a former theist, what drove you away? Was it the superstition, the laws, etc....

Post your story or comments and let's get an OPEN MINDED discussion going.

Only God can make His people OPEN MINDED to the Truth. Not one Christian, Muslim, atheist, or Jew knows our Creator today because God has kept them hidden from their true created existence within His mind.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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11/25/2014 7:38:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 11:01:26 PM, That1User wrote:
At 11/24/2014 10:56:52 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 11/24/2014 10:45:34 PM, That1User wrote:
What drove me away from Christianity:
1)The various atrocities done or commanded by God in the Bible
(ie allowing sin to be entered in the world, The Flood, The Plagues commanding genocide.)
(http://infidels.org...)
2)The Doctrine of Hell. (Finite crimes does not warrant infinite punishment, murderes and rapists can enter eternal paradise (Heaven) while a good person can enter eternal torture (Hell) for simply not believing in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.)
3) The Problem of Evil
4) Lack of evidence for the Christian God (or any God for that matter.)

Well if there were no evil in the world, then it would be a bad society if it had no free will or a high fascist system.

Examples would be an idea from the anime Psycho Pass, the system in the law of the anime involves a determinism view.

https://www.youtube.com...

If there was no evil in the world, there would be no rape, murder, torture, war, hate, depression, anger, violence etc. If there was no evil everyone would he happy and help one another. I don't understand why a good God would alow his creation to suffer from so much evil.

Well, one suffers if their brain or body responds negatively from the results. I can understand if there was no evil substance in the world, but bad thoughts or ideas are the result of free will and choices that one makes.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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11/25/2014 7:41:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 11:11:19 PM, That1User wrote:
At 11/24/2014 10:56:52 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 11/24/2014 10:45:34 PM, That1User wrote:
What drove me away from Christianity:
1)The various atrocities done or commanded by God in the Bible
(ie allowing sin to be entered in the world, The Flood, The Plagues commanding genocide.)
(http://infidels.org...)
2)The Doctrine of Hell. (Finite crimes does not warrant infinite punishment, murderes and rapists can enter eternal paradise (Heaven) while a good person can enter eternal torture (Hell) for simply not believing in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.)
3) The Problem of Evil
4) Lack of evidence for the Christian God (or any God for that matter.)

Well if there were no evil in the world, then it would be a bad society if it had no free will or a high fascist system.

Examples would be an idea from the anime Psycho Pass, the system in the law of the anime involves a determinism view.

https://www.youtube.com...

The link to that anime review is invalid to this argument. This is because there is crime in that anime, which is a form of evil. If there was no evil there would be no crime, hence that anime review being invalid in this argument. (Thanks for the anime review though! I found it interesting. Perhaps I will watch it.)

My point is that the society tried to eliminate the idea of evil.

(Spoiler)

At one point in the show, this criminal tries to break the system by using a helmet that makes their psych seem normal and good, even though their actions say otherwise. A society that tries to eliminate evil by making it no longer exist or become history will not make a good society.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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11/25/2014 7:43:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 11:13:41 PM, silverxseed wrote:
At 11/24/2014 10:56:52 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 11/24/2014 10:45:34 PM, That1User wrote:
What drove me away from Christianity:
1)The various atrocities done or commanded by God in the Bible
(ie allowing sin to be entered in the world, The Flood, The Plagues commanding genocide.)
(http://infidels.org...)
2)The Doctrine of Hell. (Finite crimes does not warrant infinite punishment, murderes and rapists can enter eternal paradise (Heaven) while a good person can enter eternal torture (Hell) for simply not believing in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.)
3) The Problem of Evil
4) Lack of evidence for the Christian God (or any God for that matter.)

Well if there were no evil in the world, then it would be a bad society if it had no free will or a high fascist system.

Examples would be an idea from the anime Psycho Pass, the system in the law of the anime involves a determinism view.

https://www.youtube.com...

Not necessarily. If there was no evil then by definition society would be at it's best. Psycho Pass is a really and example of a utopia as it isn't utopian at all, actually it's outlook is fairly dystopian.

The point is that the Abrahamic god didn't have to create a world knowing that terrible things would happen but be did even in his omniscient and omnipotent state of being. That would qualify him as evil.

Let's take the "no evil" thing this way. If I'm an omnipotent deity I can simply make it so that any human being can still think about doing any harmful thing to another if they so wish. However, I can also make it so that any attempt to carry out something such as murder simply won't work(i.e. a person can put a knife as close to they want to another person's throat but it simply can't get close enough to their skin to harm them, like the two same poles of magnets). This would in no way impede the free will of any human being but simply restrain them from carrying out an action. After all, this doesn't take away the ability for a person to will themselves to do these things, only that these things won't come into fruition.

Let me ask you a question. Who invented the gun? Was this person evil for creating something that causes people to die from murders? Is he good for causing us to defend ourselves easily? What about the sword? The knife? The bomb? Are these creators considered evil?
carriead20
Posts: 1,394
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11/25/2014 8:11:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 10:06:51 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I would like to invite atheists mostly for this discussion.
Okay, listening.
Atheists, have you ever considered other religions in the realm of theism? If you were a former theist, what drove you away? Was it the superstition, the laws, etc....
When I was Christian I did but I thought, back in the day, Jesus was the way. What drove me away was not evil, as evil will always rise to challenge the light and vice verse, but the fact that I was commanded to do things a certain way. Also when I was overseas I had a lot of thinking time in my hand and I realized that there was no logical way a god(s) would exist.
Post your story or comments and let's get an OPEN MINDED discussion going.
To all the people fighting a hard battle out there - life's giving you a pretty hard beating. There's no sugarcoating that, but there's no shadow that's free of light. When life sneers at you and asks, "Ready to go again?" - Raise your hand. Reach out to victory. Don't give in.

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