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How's this argument that God isn't real?

Gaming_Debater
Posts: 233
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11/28/2014 6:01:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I call it the omnipresence argument. It goes like this:

P1) If God is real, he is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent and omnipresent

P2) God did not stop scientists, pagans, and witches from being killed under Christianity

C1) Therefore God is not omnibenevolent

P3) If God is not omnibenevolent, he can still be omnipotent

P4) Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely

P5) If God is corrupt, he does not know that he is not omnibenevolent

C2) Therefore God is not omniscient

P6) God cannot be omnipotent if he cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

P7) God cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

C3) Therefore God cannot be omnipotent

C4) If you believe in God, then you must believe that he exists only in some other universe

C5) If you believe that God exists only in another universe, then you must believe that God is, by definition of "omnipresent," not omnipresent.

C6+FC) Therefore God does not exist.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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11/28/2014 7:02:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 6:01:27 PM, Gaming_Debater wrote:
I call it the omnipresence argument. It goes like this:

You have to actually justify your premises...

P1) If God is real, he is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent and omnipresent
P2) God did not stop scientists, pagans, and witches from being killed under Christianity
C1) Therefore God is not omnibenevolent

C1 doesnt follow from the premises, this is invalid. Also God's non-existence would automatically follow from this conclusion anyway, since negating any attribute of God negates the entire concept of God.

P3) If God is not omnibenevolent, he can still be omnipotent
P4) Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely
P5) If God is corrupt, he does not know that he is not omnibenevolent
C2) Therefore God is not omniscient

Fallacy of equivocation between definitions of 'power'.
Also, C2 can only possibly only follows from P3-5 if and only if P4 means "Power ALWAYS corrupts'. Also You need P4 to mean 'power corrupts God' for it to fulfil the conditional of P5.

Also you need to justify P4....
And P5 too, I don't see how that premise is true.
Also you need to define 'corrupt'.

P6) God cannot be omnipotent if he cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist
P7) God cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist
C3) Therefore God cannot be omnipotent

Theists will challenge your definition of 'omnipotent' here. Omnipotence is not uniformly defined according to theists. If you mean by omnipotent 'the power to do anything', then the paradox of the stone already refutes that.

C4) If you believe in God, then you must believe that he exists only in some other universe

Uhh.
C5) If you believe that God exists only in another universe, then you must believe that God is, by definition of "omnipresent," not omnipresent.

Uhh..

C6+FC) Therefore God does not exist.

Uhhhh.

Your logic is a real mess. Have a read on some introductory logic, and practice using letter notation, that way its easier to keep track of where you are keeping concepts consistent.

http://www.stetson.edu...
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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11/28/2014 7:04:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 6:01:27 PM, Gaming_Debater wrote:
I call it the omnipresence argument. It goes like this:


P1) If God is real, he is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent and omnipresent

P2) God did not stop scientists, pagans, and witches from being killed under Christianity

C1) Therefore God is not omnibenevolent

P3) If God is not omnibenevolent, he can still be omnipotent

P4) Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely

P5) If God is corrupt, he does not know that he is not omnibenevolent

C2) Therefore God is not omniscient

P6) God cannot be omnipotent if he cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

P7) God cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

C3) Therefore God cannot be omnipotent

C4) If you believe in God, then you must believe that he exists only in some other universe

C5) If you believe that God exists only in another universe, then you must believe that God is, by definition of "omnipresent," not omnipresent.

C6+FC) Therefore God does not exist.

God is the only one who is real. Everything else is created to be stupid like you.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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11/28/2014 7:15:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
This comes from a misunderstanding of what omnipotance means. It simply means most powerful.

It's possible that God is omnibenevolent he just doesn't subscribe to a set of morals you'd agree with. Not to mention he can see the big picture where as you can't
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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11/28/2014 7:17:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 7:04:26 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 6:01:27 PM, Gaming_Debater wrote:
I call it the omnipresence argument. It goes like this:


P1) If God is real, he is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent and omnipresent

P2) God did not stop scientists, pagans, and witches from being killed under Christianity

C1) Therefore God is not omnibenevolent

P3) If God is not omnibenevolent, he can still be omnipotent

P4) Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely

P5) If God is corrupt, he does not know that he is not omnibenevolent

C2) Therefore God is not omniscient

P6) God cannot be omnipotent if he cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

P7) God cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

C3) Therefore God cannot be omnipotent

C4) If you believe in God, then you must believe that he exists only in some other universe

C5) If you believe that God exists only in another universe, then you must believe that God is, by definition of "omnipresent," not omnipresent.

C6+FC) Therefore God does not exist.

God is the only one who is real. Everything else is created to be stupid like you.

Why would things be created for the purpose of being stupid?
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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11/28/2014 7:21:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 7:17:29 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:04:26 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 6:01:27 PM, Gaming_Debater wrote:
I call it the omnipresence argument. It goes like this:


P1) If God is real, he is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent and omnipresent

P2) God did not stop scientists, pagans, and witches from being killed under Christianity

C1) Therefore God is not omnibenevolent

P3) If God is not omnibenevolent, he can still be omnipotent

P4) Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely

P5) If God is corrupt, he does not know that he is not omnibenevolent

C2) Therefore God is not omniscient

P6) God cannot be omnipotent if he cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

P7) God cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

C3) Therefore God cannot be omnipotent

C4) If you believe in God, then you must believe that he exists only in some other universe

C5) If you believe that God exists only in another universe, then you must believe that God is, by definition of "omnipresent," not omnipresent.

C6+FC) Therefore God does not exist.

God is the only one who is real. Everything else is created to be stupid like you.

Why would things be created for the purpose of being stupid?

Because images ( illusions ) aren't real. He told His people not to worship images but what do they do instead?
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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11/28/2014 7:21:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 7:15:34 PM, Wylted wrote:
This comes from a misunderstanding of what omnipotance means. It simply means most powerful.

It's possible that God is omnibenevolent he just doesn't subscribe to a set of morals you'd agree with. Not to mention he can see the big picture where as you can't

Omnipotence has many definitions, the wiki page has six:

"1. A deity is able to do anything that it chooses to do.[1]
2. A deity is able to do anything that is in accord with its own nature (thus, for instance, if it is a logical consequence of a deity's nature that what it speaks is truth, then it is not able to lie).
3. Hold that it is part of a deity's nature to be consistent and that it would be inconsistent for said deity to go against its own laws unless there was a reason to do so.[2]
4. A deity can bring about any state of affairs which is logically possible for anyone to bring about in that situation.
5. A deity is able to do anything that corresponds with its omniscience and therefore with its worldplan.
6. Every action performed in the world is 'actually' being performed by the deity, either due to omni-immanence, or because all actions must be 'supported' or 'permitted' by the deity."

Also there are a plethora of ways to define 'good' (and hence benevolence), although the only one that survives the problem of evil is from divine command theory, or 'according to God's nature'.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,060
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11/28/2014 7:25:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 6:01:27 PM, Gaming_Debater wrote:
I call it the omnipresence argument. It goes like this:


P1) If God is real, he is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent and omnipresent

P2) God did not stop scientists, pagans, and witches from being killed under Christianity

C1) Therefore God is not omnibenevolent

An old, wearisome beatdown utilizing the alleged Problem of Evil.

P3) If God is not omnibenevolent, he can still be omnipotent

P4) Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely

P5) If God is corrupt, he does not know that he is not omnibenevolent

C2) Therefore God is not omniscient

And the "fact" that absolute power corrupts absolutely became universal law...when?

P6) God cannot be omnipotent if he cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

P7) God cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

C3) Therefore God cannot be omnipotent

How do you know that God cannot make Himself not omnipresent, or that He cannot do that which is logically impossible?

C4) If you believe in God, then you must believe that he exists only in some other universe

C5) If you believe that God exists only in another universe, then you must believe that God is, by definition of "omnipresent," not omnipresent.

God would normally exist in this Universe, but He chose to allow areas of reality where He does not fill the place (such as this Universe, as well as Hell). However, He still knows all about this Universe and He still has total power over what happens here.

C6+FC) Therefore God does not exist.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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11/28/2014 7:27:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 7:21:32 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:15:34 PM, Wylted wrote:
This comes from a misunderstanding of what omnipotance means. It simply means most powerful.

It's possible that God is omnibenevolent he just doesn't subscribe to a set of morals you'd agree with. Not to mention he can see the big picture where as you can't

Omnipotence has many definitions, the wiki page has six:

"1. A deity is able to do anything that it chooses to do.[1]
2. A deity is able to do anything that is in accord with its own nature (thus, for instance, if it is a logical consequence of a deity's nature that what it speaks is truth, then it is not able to lie).
3. Hold that it is part of a deity's nature to be consistent and that it would be inconsistent for said deity to go against its own laws unless there was a reason to do so.[2]
4. A deity can bring about any state of affairs which is logically possible for anyone to bring about in that situation.
5. A deity is able to do anything that corresponds with its omniscience and therefore with its worldplan.
6. Every action performed in the world is 'actually' being performed by the deity, either due to omni-immanence, or because all actions must be 'supported' or 'permitted' by the deity."

Also there are a plethora of ways to define 'good' (and hence benevolence), although the only one that survives the problem of evil is from divine command theory, or 'according to God's nature'.

I understand the multiple definitions to omnipotence. I think these paradoxes are a bunch of strawman arguments that don't consider multiple definitions and what people truly mean when they say it.

I'm not too familiar with divine command theory, I'll have to google that.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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11/28/2014 7:30:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 7:21:17 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:17:29 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:04:26 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 6:01:27 PM, Gaming_Debater wrote:
I call it the omnipresence argument. It goes like this:


P1) If God is real, he is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent and omnipresent

P2) God did not stop scientists, pagans, and witches from being killed under Christianity

C1) Therefore God is not omnibenevolent

P3) If God is not omnibenevolent, he can still be omnipotent

P4) Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely

P5) If God is corrupt, he does not know that he is not omnibenevolent

C2) Therefore God is not omniscient

P6) God cannot be omnipotent if he cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

P7) God cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

C3) Therefore God cannot be omnipotent

C4) If you believe in God, then you must believe that he exists only in some other universe

C5) If you believe that God exists only in another universe, then you must believe that God is, by definition of "omnipresent," not omnipresent.

C6+FC) Therefore God does not exist.

God is the only one who is real. Everything else is created to be stupid like you.

Why would things be created for the purpose of being stupid?

Because images ( illusions ) aren't real. He told His people not to worship images but what do they do instead?

I think you're using the word stupid differently than most people do, but why would God say not to worship images when he knows thy won't listen anyway, and since he's perfect he actually created them not to listen.

I'm not sure I understand creation anyway. Why did God create anything?
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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11/28/2014 7:37:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 7:30:48 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:21:17 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:17:29 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:04:26 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 6:01:27 PM, Gaming_Debater wrote:
I call it the omnipresence argument. It goes like this:


P1) If God is real, he is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent and omnipresent

P2) God did not stop scientists, pagans, and witches from being killed under Christianity

C1) Therefore God is not omnibenevolent

P3) If God is not omnibenevolent, he can still be omnipotent

P4) Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely

P5) If God is corrupt, he does not know that he is not omnibenevolent

C2) Therefore God is not omniscient

P6) God cannot be omnipotent if he cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

P7) God cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

C3) Therefore God cannot be omnipotent

C4) If you believe in God, then you must believe that he exists only in some other universe

C5) If you believe that God exists only in another universe, then you must believe that God is, by definition of "omnipresent," not omnipresent.

C6+FC) Therefore God does not exist.

God is the only one who is real. Everything else is created to be stupid like you.

Why would things be created for the purpose of being stupid?

Because images ( illusions ) aren't real. He told His people not to worship images but what do they do instead?

I think you're using the word stupid differently than most people do, but why would God say not to worship images when he knows thy won't listen anyway, and since he's perfect he actually created them not to listen.

I'm not sure I understand creation anyway. Why did God create anything?

If you were the only person in existence and you had the abilities of "God".....would you create?
Gaming_Debater
Posts: 233
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11/28/2014 7:38:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 7:02:07 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 11/28/2014 6:01:27 PM, Gaming_Debater wrote:
I call it the omnipresence argument. It goes like this:

You have to actually justify your premises...

P1) If God is real, he is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent and omnipresent
P2) God did not stop scientists, pagans, and witches from being killed under Christianity
C1) Therefore God is not omnibenevolent

C1 doesnt follow from the premises, this is invalid. Also God's non-existence would automatically follow from this conclusion anyway, since negating any attribute of God negates the entire concept of God.

Actually it does because if God were omnibenevolent, he'd have stopped the persecution.


P3) If God is not omnibenevolent, he can still be omnipotent
P4) Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely
P5) If God is corrupt, he does not know that he is not omnibenevolent
C2) Therefore God is not omniscient

Fallacy of equivocation between definitions of 'power'.

Power- the solely magical ability to do X (e.g. create a universe out of nothing)

Also, C2 can only possibly only follows from P3-5 if and only if P4 means "Power ALWAYS corrupts'. Also You need P4 to mean 'power corrupts God' for it to fulfil the conditional of P5.

If total control over a government can corrupt someone, then wouldn't the same be likely with omnipotence?


Also you need to justify P4....

Such applied to all commie leaders. It might even apply to non-commies.

And P5 too, I don't see how that premise is true.
Also you need to define 'corrupt'.

Corrupt- having given up one's morality in hopes of personal gain; greedy; malevolent

If God is like that, then he is too distracted by all the bad that is happening in the world to even think about it. If he is not, then he thinks that he is benevolent because he is sending his enemies to hell, who he has assumed don't deserve a chance.


P6) God cannot be omnipotent if he cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist
P7) God cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist
C3) Therefore God cannot be omnipotent

Theists will challenge your definition of 'omnipotent' here. Omnipotence is not uniformly defined according to theists. If you mean by omnipotent 'the power to do anything', then the paradox of the stone already refutes that.

Yes, that's what I mean.


C4) If you believe in God, then you must believe that he exists only in some other universe

Uhh.

C4 is derived from C1-3.

C5) If you believe that God exists only in another universe, then you must believe that God is, by definition of "omnipresent," not omnipresent.

Uhh..

derived from C4


C6+FC) Therefore God does not exist.

Uhhhh.

FC means "final conclusion." Sorry to confuse you if that's what "uhhhhh" meant


Your logic is a real mess. Have a read on some introductory logic, and practice using letter notation, that way its easier to keep track of where you are keeping concepts consistent.

http://www.stetson.edu...
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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11/28/2014 7:40:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 7:37:17 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:30:48 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:21:17 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:17:29 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:04:26 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 6:01:27 PM, Gaming_Debater wrote:
I call it the omnipresence argument. It goes like this:


P1) If God is real, he is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent and omnipresent

P2) God did not stop scientists, pagans, and witches from being killed under Christianity

C1) Therefore God is not omnibenevolent

P3) If God is not omnibenevolent, he can still be omnipotent

P4) Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely

P5) If God is corrupt, he does not know that he is not omnibenevolent

C2) Therefore God is not omniscient

P6) God cannot be omnipotent if he cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

P7) God cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

C3) Therefore God cannot be omnipotent

C4) If you believe in God, then you must believe that he exists only in some other universe

C5) If you believe that God exists only in another universe, then you must believe that God is, by definition of "omnipresent," not omnipresent.

C6+FC) Therefore God does not exist.

God is the only one who is real. Everything else is created to be stupid like you.

Why would things be created for the purpose of being stupid?

Because images ( illusions ) aren't real. He told His people not to worship images but what do they do instead?

I think you're using the word stupid differently than most people do, but why would God say not to worship images when he knows thy won't listen anyway, and since he's perfect he actually created them not to listen.

I'm not sure I understand creation anyway. Why did God create anything?

If you were the only person in existence and you had the abilities of "God".....would you create?

No, I'd kill myself and create an imperfect world using myself as the building blocks. Slowly the world would return to my state and I would do it again.

Unless you consider that creation and then I guess I would.
Gaming_Debater
Posts: 233
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11/28/2014 7:43:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 7:25:21 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/28/2014 6:01:27 PM, Gaming_Debater wrote:
I call it the omnipresence argument. It goes like this:


P1) If God is real, he is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent and omnipresent

P2) God did not stop scientists, pagans, and witches from being killed under Christianity

C1) Therefore God is not omnibenevolent

An old, wearisome beatdown utilizing the alleged Problem of Evil.

Define "wearisome"


P3) If God is not omnibenevolent, he can still be omnipotent

P4) Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely

P5) If God is corrupt, he does not know that he is not omnibenevolent

C2) Therefore God is not omniscient

And the "fact" that absolute power corrupts absolutely became universal law...when?

It's not a law. It's just evident.


P6) God cannot be omnipotent if he cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

P7) God cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

C3) Therefore God cannot be omnipotent

How do you know that God cannot make Himself not omnipresent, or that He cannot do that which is logically impossible?

Because I've never been given evidence of an instant where he did.


C4) If you believe in God, then you must believe that he exists only in some other universe

C5) If you believe that God exists only in another universe, then you must believe that God is, by definition of "omnipresent," not omnipresent.

God would normally exist in this Universe, but He chose to allow areas of reality where He does not fill the place (such as this Universe, as well as Hell). However, He still knows all about this Universe and He still has total power over what happens here.

Texas sharpshooter fallacy.


C6+FC) Therefore God does not exist.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

You think that's funny?
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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11/28/2014 7:44:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 7:40:55 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:37:17 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:30:48 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:21:17 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:17:29 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:04:26 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 6:01:27 PM, Gaming_Debater wrote:
I call it the omnipresence argument. It goes like this:


P1) If God is real, he is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent and omnipresent

P2) God did not stop scientists, pagans, and witches from being killed under Christianity

C1) Therefore God is not omnibenevolent

P3) If God is not omnibenevolent, he can still be omnipotent

P4) Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely

P5) If God is corrupt, he does not know that he is not omnibenevolent

C2) Therefore God is not omniscient

P6) God cannot be omnipotent if he cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

P7) God cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

C3) Therefore God cannot be omnipotent

C4) If you believe in God, then you must believe that he exists only in some other universe

C5) If you believe that God exists only in another universe, then you must believe that God is, by definition of "omnipresent," not omnipresent.

C6+FC) Therefore God does not exist.

God is the only one who is real. Everything else is created to be stupid like you.

Why would things be created for the purpose of being stupid?

Because images ( illusions ) aren't real. He told His people not to worship images but what do they do instead?

I think you're using the word stupid differently than most people do, but why would God say not to worship images when he knows thy won't listen anyway, and since he's perfect he actually created them not to listen.

I'm not sure I understand creation anyway. Why did God create anything?

If you were the only person in existence and you had the abilities of "God".....would you create?

No, I'd kill myself and create an imperfect world using myself as the building blocks. Slowly the world would return to my state and I would do it again.

Unless you consider that creation and then I guess I would.

So then you'd understand why God would create then lol?
Gaming_Debater
Posts: 233
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11/28/2014 7:45:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 7:30:48 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:21:17 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:17:29 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:04:26 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 6:01:27 PM, Gaming_Debater wrote:
I call it the omnipresence argument. It goes like this:


P1) If God is real, he is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent and omnipresent

P2) God did not stop scientists, pagans, and witches from being killed under Christianity

C1) Therefore God is not omnibenevolent

P3) If God is not omnibenevolent, he can still be omnipotent

P4) Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely

P5) If God is corrupt, he does not know that he is not omnibenevolent

C2) Therefore God is not omniscient

P6) God cannot be omnipotent if he cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

P7) God cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

C3) Therefore God cannot be omnipotent

C4) If you believe in God, then you must believe that he exists only in some other universe

C5) If you believe that God exists only in another universe, then you must believe that God is, by definition of "omnipresent," not omnipresent.

C6+FC) Therefore God does not exist.

God is the only one who is real. Everything else is created to be stupid like you.

Why would things be created for the purpose of being stupid?

Because images ( illusions ) aren't real. He told His people not to worship images but what do they do instead?

I think you're using the word stupid differently than most people do, but why would God say not to worship images when he knows thy won't listen anyway, and since he's perfect he actually created them not to listen.

Then he must not be omiscient or just not be omnibenevolent or not be omnipotent.


I'm not sure I understand creation anyway. Why did God create anything?
Gaming_Debater
Posts: 233
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11/28/2014 7:45:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 7:04:26 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 6:01:27 PM, Gaming_Debater wrote:
I call it the omnipresence argument. It goes like this:


P1) If God is real, he is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent and omnipresent

P2) God did not stop scientists, pagans, and witches from being killed under Christianity

C1) Therefore God is not omnibenevolent

P3) If God is not omnibenevolent, he can still be omnipotent

P4) Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely

P5) If God is corrupt, he does not know that he is not omnibenevolent

C2) Therefore God is not omniscient

P6) God cannot be omnipotent if he cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

P7) God cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

C3) Therefore God cannot be omnipotent

C4) If you believe in God, then you must believe that he exists only in some other universe

C5) If you believe that God exists only in another universe, then you must believe that God is, by definition of "omnipresent," not omnipresent.

C6+FC) Therefore God does not exist.

God is the only one who is real. Everything else is created to be stupid like you.

Prove it.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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11/28/2014 7:50:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 7:30:48 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:21:17 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:17:29 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:04:26 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 6:01:27 PM, Gaming_Debater wrote:
I call it the omnipresence argument. It goes like this:


P1) If God is real, he is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent and omnipresent

P2) God did not stop scientists, pagans, and witches from being killed under Christianity

C1) Therefore God is not omnibenevolent

P3) If God is not omnibenevolent, he can still be omnipotent

P4) Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely

P5) If God is corrupt, he does not know that he is not omnibenevolent

C2) Therefore God is not omniscient

P6) God cannot be omnipotent if he cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

P7) God cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

C3) Therefore God cannot be omnipotent

C4) If you believe in God, then you must believe that he exists only in some other universe

C5) If you believe that God exists only in another universe, then you must believe that God is, by definition of "omnipresent," not omnipresent.

C6+FC) Therefore God does not exist.

God is the only one who is real. Everything else is created to be stupid like you.

Why would things be created for the purpose of being stupid?

Because images ( illusions ) aren't real. He told His people not to worship images but what do they do instead?

I think you're using the word stupid differently than most people do, but why would God say not to worship images when he knows thy won't listen anyway, and since he's perfect he actually created them not to listen.

I'm not sure I understand creation anyway. Why did God create anything?

Because He can. We can't create anything unless He makes us believe we can like He did with many of His people during this age.

God did deceive His people with all His illusions that looked like they were real during this first age. His plan for this first age was to use illusions called prophets and saints to testify in writing and speaking from His knowledge where we all exist as His characters. His voice is even created and that's my created existence. His voice is spoken through His prophets and saints to teach us who we are.

If you've seen the movie Matrix, you can use it as an analogy of what's going on in this world and how God can use us saints to teach us who we are in Him.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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11/28/2014 7:50:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 7:44:38 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:40:55 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:37:17 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:30:48 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:21:17 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:17:29 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:04:26 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 6:01:27 PM, Gaming_Debater wrote:
I call it the omnipresence argument. It goes like this:


P1) If God is real, he is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent and omnipresent

P2) God did not stop scientists, pagans, and witches from being killed under Christianity

C1) Therefore God is not omnibenevolent

P3) If God is not omnibenevolent, he can still be omnipotent

P4) Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely

P5) If God is corrupt, he does not know that he is not omnibenevolent

C2) Therefore God is not omniscient

P6) God cannot be omnipotent if he cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

P7) God cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

C3) Therefore God cannot be omnipotent

C4) If you believe in God, then you must believe that he exists only in some other universe

C5) If you believe that God exists only in another universe, then you must believe that God is, by definition of "omnipresent," not omnipresent.

C6+FC) Therefore God does not exist.

God is the only one who is real. Everything else is created to be stupid like you.

Why would things be created for the purpose of being stupid?

Because images ( illusions ) aren't real. He told His people not to worship images but what do they do instead?

I think you're using the word stupid differently than most people do, but why would God say not to worship images when he knows thy won't listen anyway, and since he's perfect he actually created them not to listen.

I'm not sure I understand creation anyway. Why did God create anything?

If you were the only person in existence and you had the abilities of "God".....would you create?

No, I'd kill myself and create an imperfect world using myself as the building blocks. Slowly the world would return to my state and I would do it again.

Unless you consider that creation and then I guess I would.

So then you'd understand why God would create then lol?

Ignore me I wasn't paying attention to the discussion, just being dumb :)
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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11/28/2014 7:53:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 7:50:26 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:30:48 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:21:17 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:17:29 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:04:26 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 6:01:27 PM, Gaming_Debater wrote:
I call it the omnipresence argument. It goes like this:


P1) If God is real, he is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent and omnipresent

P2) God did not stop scientists, pagans, and witches from being killed under Christianity

C1) Therefore God is not omnibenevolent

P3) If God is not omnibenevolent, he can still be omnipotent

P4) Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely

P5) If God is corrupt, he does not know that he is not omnibenevolent

C2) Therefore God is not omniscient

P6) God cannot be omnipotent if he cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

P7) God cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

C3) Therefore God cannot be omnipotent

C4) If you believe in God, then you must believe that he exists only in some other universe

C5) If you believe that God exists only in another universe, then you must believe that God is, by definition of "omnipresent," not omnipresent.

C6+FC) Therefore God does not exist.

God is the only one who is real. Everything else is created to be stupid like you.

Why would things be created for the purpose of being stupid?

Because images ( illusions ) aren't real. He told His people not to worship images but what do they do instead?

I think you're using the word stupid differently than most people do, but why would God say not to worship images when he knows thy won't listen anyway, and since he's perfect he actually created them not to listen.

I'm not sure I understand creation anyway. Why did God create anything?

Because He can. We can't create anything unless He makes us believe we can like He did with many of His people during this age.

God did deceive His people with all His illusions that looked like they were real during this first age. His plan for this first age was to use illusions called prophets and saints to testify in writing and speaking from His knowledge where we all exist as His characters. His voice is even created and that's my created existence. His voice is spoken through His prophets and saints to teach us who we are.

If you've seen the movie Matrix, you can use it as an analogy of what's going on in this world and how God can use us saints to teach us who we are in Him.

"Because he can"

I'm aware he can create us but what is his motivation for doing so?

Are you privy to that answer ? Do you know the motivations of God?
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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11/28/2014 7:54:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 7:45:47 PM, Gaming_Debater wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:04:26 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 6:01:27 PM, Gaming_Debater wrote:
I call it the omnipresence argument. It goes like this:


P1) If God is real, he is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent and omnipresent

P2) God did not stop scientists, pagans, and witches from being killed under Christianity

C1) Therefore God is not omnibenevolent

P3) If God is not omnibenevolent, he can still be omnipotent

P4) Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely

P5) If God is corrupt, he does not know that he is not omnibenevolent

C2) Therefore God is not omniscient

P6) God cannot be omnipotent if he cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

P7) God cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

C3) Therefore God cannot be omnipotent

C4) If you believe in God, then you must believe that he exists only in some other universe

C5) If you believe that God exists only in another universe, then you must believe that God is, by definition of "omnipresent," not omnipresent.

C6+FC) Therefore God does not exist.

God is the only one who is real. Everything else is created to be stupid like you.

Prove it.

Why can't physicists tell people how we were created? Why can't religious people explain exactly how we were created?

For one reason, no one was around when God created everything.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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11/28/2014 7:57:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 7:53:26 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:50:26 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:30:48 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:21:17 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:17:29 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:04:26 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 6:01:27 PM, Gaming_Debater wrote:
I call it the omnipresence argument. It goes like this:


P1) If God is real, he is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent and omnipresent

P2) God did not stop scientists, pagans, and witches from being killed under Christianity

C1) Therefore God is not omnibenevolent

P3) If God is not omnibenevolent, he can still be omnipotent

P4) Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely

P5) If God is corrupt, he does not know that he is not omnibenevolent

C2) Therefore God is not omniscient

P6) God cannot be omnipotent if he cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

P7) God cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

C3) Therefore God cannot be omnipotent

C4) If you believe in God, then you must believe that he exists only in some other universe

C5) If you believe that God exists only in another universe, then you must believe that God is, by definition of "omnipresent," not omnipresent.

C6+FC) Therefore God does not exist.

God is the only one who is real. Everything else is created to be stupid like you.

Why would things be created for the purpose of being stupid?

Because images ( illusions ) aren't real. He told His people not to worship images but what do they do instead?

I think you're using the word stupid differently than most people do, but why would God say not to worship images when he knows thy won't listen anyway, and since he's perfect he actually created them not to listen.

I'm not sure I understand creation anyway. Why did God create anything?

Because He can. We can't create anything unless He makes us believe we can like He did with many of His people during this age.

God did deceive His people with all His illusions that looked like they were real during this first age. His plan for this first age was to use illusions called prophets and saints to testify in writing and speaking from His knowledge where we all exist as His characters. His voice is even created and that's my created existence. His voice is spoken through His prophets and saints to teach us who we are.

If you've seen the movie Matrix, you can use it as an analogy of what's going on in this world and how God can use us saints to teach us who we are in Him.

"Because he can"

I'm aware he can create us but what is his motivation for doing so?

Are you privy to that answer ? Do you know the motivations of God?

There is no reason other than He can. The reason He created two ages was to use the first age to teach us that we're living in His dream. In the next age, we'll be content with all the dream experiences we have for eternity without any questions. We'll be living the answer, The answer is our Creator and His thoughts where we exist.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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11/28/2014 7:58:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 7:54:05 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:45:47 PM, Gaming_Debater wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:04:26 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 6:01:27 PM, Gaming_Debater wrote:
I call it the omnipresence argument. It goes like this:


P1) If God is real, he is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent and omnipresent

P2) God did not stop scientists, pagans, and witches from being killed under Christianity

C1) Therefore God is not omnibenevolent

P3) If God is not omnibenevolent, he can still be omnipotent

P4) Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely

P5) If God is corrupt, he does not know that he is not omnibenevolent

C2) Therefore God is not omniscient

P6) God cannot be omnipotent if he cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

P7) God cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

C3) Therefore God cannot be omnipotent

C4) If you believe in God, then you must believe that he exists only in some other universe

C5) If you believe that God exists only in another universe, then you must believe that God is, by definition of "omnipresent," not omnipresent.

C6+FC) Therefore God does not exist.

God is the only one who is real. Everything else is created to be stupid like you.

Prove it.

Why can't physicists tell people how we were created? Why can't religious people explain exactly how we were created?

For one reason, no one was around when God created everything.

I was
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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11/28/2014 8:00:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 7:57:08 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:53:26 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:50:26 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:30:48 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:21:17 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:17:29 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:04:26 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 6:01:27 PM, Gaming_Debater wrote:
I call it the omnipresence argument. It goes like this:


P1) If God is real, he is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent and omnipresent

P2) God did not stop scientists, pagans, and witches from being killed under Christianity

C1) Therefore God is not omnibenevolent

P3) If God is not omnibenevolent, he can still be omnipotent

P4) Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely

P5) If God is corrupt, he does not know that he is not omnibenevolent

C2) Therefore God is not omniscient

P6) God cannot be omnipotent if he cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

P7) God cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

C3) Therefore God cannot be omnipotent

C4) If you believe in God, then you must believe that he exists only in some other universe

C5) If you believe that God exists only in another universe, then you must believe that God is, by definition of "omnipresent," not omnipresent.

C6+FC) Therefore God does not exist.

God is the only one who is real. Everything else is created to be stupid like you.

Why would things be created for the purpose of being stupid?

Because images ( illusions ) aren't real. He told His people not to worship images but what do they do instead?

I think you're using the word stupid differently than most people do, but why would God say not to worship images when he knows thy won't listen anyway, and since he's perfect he actually created them not to listen.

I'm not sure I understand creation anyway. Why did God create anything?

Because He can. We can't create anything unless He makes us believe we can like He did with many of His people during this age.

God did deceive His people with all His illusions that looked like they were real during this first age. His plan for this first age was to use illusions called prophets and saints to testify in writing and speaking from His knowledge where we all exist as His characters. His voice is even created and that's my created existence. His voice is spoken through His prophets and saints to teach us who we are.

If you've seen the movie Matrix, you can use it as an analogy of what's going on in this world and how God can use us saints to teach us who we are in Him.

"Because he can"

I'm aware he can create us but what is his motivation for doing so?

Are you privy to that answer ? Do you know the motivations of God?

There is no reason other than He can. The reason He created two ages was to use the first age to teach us that we're living in His dream. In the next age, we'll be content with all the dream experiences we have for eternity without any questions. We'll be living the answer, The answer is our Creator and His thoughts where we exist.

He can isn't a reason, otherwise he'd simply do everything he was capable of?

Does he do everything he is capable of?
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,560
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11/28/2014 8:01:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 7:54:05 PM, bornofgod wrote:

Why can't physicists tell people how we were created?

Because, physicists deal with physics, not biology.

Why can't religious people explain exactly how we were created?

Because, they've been indoctrinated to accept the doctrines of a religion without question, hence they operate on a belief system rather than a system of understanding, inquiry, information, critical thinking and honesty.

For one reason, no one was around when God created everything.

No one was around when we were evolving.

Notice that we now have to completely rely on hard evidence in order to find out which one of those concepts is valid.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,560
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11/28/2014 8:05:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 7:57:08 PM, bornofgod wrote:
The reason He created two ages was to use the first age to teach us that we're living in His dream. In the next age, we'll be content with all the dream experiences we have for eternity without any questions. We'll be living the answer, The answer is our Creator and His thoughts where we exist.

The utter boredom of being in that state is only matched by the sheer wastefulness of being in that state. Everything is a dream? Firetruck that bs. I want reality.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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11/28/2014 8:07:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 7:38:29 PM, Gaming_Debater wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:02:07 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 11/28/2014 6:01:27 PM, Gaming_Debater wrote:
I call it the omnipresence argument. It goes like this:

You have to actually justify your premises...

P1) If God is real, he is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent and omnipresent
P2) God did not stop scientists, pagans, and witches from being killed under Christianity
C1) Therefore God is not omnibenevolent

C1 doesnt follow from the premises, this is invalid. Also God's non-existence would automatically follow from this conclusion anyway, since negating any attribute of God negates the entire concept of God.

Actually it does because if God were omnibenevolent, he'd have stopped the persecution.

Not necessarily. Killing may have nothing to do with "good", since morality is undefined. God could kill off all life if he wants, for a theist who adheres to divine command theory, or God's nature then this argument fails.


P3) If God is not omnibenevolent, he can still be omnipotent
P4) Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely
P5) If God is corrupt, he does not know that he is not omnibenevolent
C2) Therefore God is not omniscient

Fallacy of equivocation between definitions of 'power'.

Power- the solely magical ability to do X (e.g. create a universe out of nothing)

Then your P4 is obviously false:

P4) "The solely magical ability to do X corrupts and absolute solely magical ability to do X corrupts absolutely"

Good luck ever demonstrating that to be true, lol.

Also, C2 can only possibly only follows from P3-5 if and only if P4 means "Power ALWAYS corrupts'. Also You need P4 to mean 'power corrupts God' for it to fulfil the conditional of P5.

If total control over a government can corrupt someone, then wouldn't the same be likely with omnipotence?

Can corrupt =/= always corrupt. If you can't affirm always corrupt then the argument is logically invalid.


Also you need to justify P4....

Such applied to all commie leaders. It might even apply to non-commies.

... No.

And P5 too, I don't see how that premise is true.
Also you need to define 'corrupt'.

Corrupt- having given up one's morality in hopes of personal gain; greedy; malevolent

If God is like that, then he is too distracted by all the bad that is happening in the world to even think about it. If he is not, then he thinks that he is benevolent because he is sending his enemies to hell, who he has assumed don't deserve a chance.

God is omnipotent. GG.


P6) God cannot be omnipotent if he cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist
P7) God cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist
C3) Therefore God cannot be omnipotent

Theists will challenge your definition of 'omnipotent' here. Omnipotence is not uniformly defined according to theists. If you mean by omnipotent 'the power to do anything', then the paradox of the stone already refutes that.

Yes, that's what I mean.

Then this only addressed a subset of God beliefs.


C4) If you believe in God, then you must believe that he exists only in some other universe

Uhh.

C4 is derived from C1-3.

No it doesn't.

C5) If you believe that God exists only in another universe, then you must believe that God is, by definition of "omnipresent," not omnipresent.

Uhh..

derived from C4

No.


C6+FC) Therefore God does not exist.

Uhhhh.

FC means "final conclusion." Sorry to confuse you if that's what "uhhhhh" meant


Your logic is a real mess. Have a read on some introductory logic, and practice using letter notation, that way its easier to keep track of where you are keeping concepts consistent.

http://www.stetson.edu...

Read this.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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11/28/2014 8:09:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 8:00:53 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:57:08 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:53:26 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:50:26 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:30:48 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:21:17 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:17:29 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:04:26 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 6:01:27 PM, Gaming_Debater wrote:
I call it the omnipresence argument. It goes like this:


P1) If God is real, he is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent and omnipresent

P2) God did not stop scientists, pagans, and witches from being killed under Christianity

C1) Therefore God is not omnibenevolent

P3) If God is not omnibenevolent, he can still be omnipotent

P4) Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely

P5) If God is corrupt, he does not know that he is not omnibenevolent

C2) Therefore God is not omniscient

P6) God cannot be omnipotent if he cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

P7) God cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

C3) Therefore God cannot be omnipotent

C4) If you believe in God, then you must believe that he exists only in some other universe

C5) If you believe that God exists only in another universe, then you must believe that God is, by definition of "omnipresent," not omnipresent.

C6+FC) Therefore God does not exist.

God is the only one who is real. Everything else is created to be stupid like you.

Why would things be created for the purpose of being stupid?

Because images ( illusions ) aren't real. He told His people not to worship images but what do they do instead?

I think you're using the word stupid differently than most people do, but why would God say not to worship images when he knows thy won't listen anyway, and since he's perfect he actually created them not to listen.

I'm not sure I understand creation anyway. Why did God create anything?

Because He can. We can't create anything unless He makes us believe we can like He did with many of His people during this age.

God did deceive His people with all His illusions that looked like they were real during this first age. His plan for this first age was to use illusions called prophets and saints to testify in writing and speaking from His knowledge where we all exist as His characters. His voice is even created and that's my created existence. His voice is spoken through His prophets and saints to teach us who we are.

If you've seen the movie Matrix, you can use it as an analogy of what's going on in this world and how God can use us saints to teach us who we are in Him.

"Because he can"

I'm aware he can create us but what is his motivation for doing so?

Are you privy to that answer ? Do you know the motivations of God?

There is no reason other than He can. The reason He created two ages was to use the first age to teach us that we're living in His dream. In the next age, we'll be content with all the dream experiences we have for eternity without any questions. We'll be living the answer, The answer is our Creator and His thoughts where we exist.

He can isn't a reason, otherwise he'd simply do everything he was capable of?

Does he do everything he is capable of?

He created a program called Eternal Life so we are living as planned. He's capable of doing anything He planned to do.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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11/28/2014 8:12:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 8:05:35 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:57:08 PM, bornofgod wrote:
The reason He created two ages was to use the first age to teach us that we're living in His dream. In the next age, we'll be content with all the dream experiences we have for eternity without any questions. We'll be living the answer, The answer is our Creator and His thoughts where we exist.

The utter boredom of being in that state is only matched by the sheer wastefulness of being in that state. Everything is a dream? Firetruck that bs. I want reality.

He makes perfect looking visions and dreams for us to experience so they are our reality, but only as planned by Him.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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11/28/2014 8:13:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/28/2014 8:09:48 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 8:00:53 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:57:08 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:53:26 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:50:26 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:30:48 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:21:17 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:17:29 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/28/2014 7:04:26 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/28/2014 6:01:27 PM, Gaming_Debater wrote:
I call it the omnipresence argument. It goes like this:


P1) If God is real, he is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent and omnipresent

P2) God did not stop scientists, pagans, and witches from being killed under Christianity

C1) Therefore God is not omnibenevolent

P3) If God is not omnibenevolent, he can still be omnipotent

P4) Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely

P5) If God is corrupt, he does not know that he is not omnibenevolent

C2) Therefore God is not omniscient

P6) God cannot be omnipotent if he cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

P7) God cannot make himself not omnipresent without ceasing to exist

C3) Therefore God cannot be omnipotent

C4) If you believe in God, then you must believe that he exists only in some other universe

C5) If you believe that God exists only in another universe, then you must believe that God is, by definition of "omnipresent," not omnipresent.

C6+FC) Therefore God does not exist.

God is the only one who is real. Everything else is created to be stupid like you.

Why would things be created for the purpose of being stupid?

Because images ( illusions ) aren't real. He told His people not to worship images but what do they do instead?

I think you're using the word stupid differently than most people do, but why would God say not to worship images when he knows thy won't listen anyway, and since he's perfect he actually created them not to listen.

I'm not sure I understand creation anyway. Why did God create anything?

Because He can. We can't create anything unless He makes us believe we can like He did with many of His people during this age.

God did deceive His people with all His illusions that looked like they were real during this first age. His plan for this first age was to use illusions called prophets and saints to testify in writing and speaking from His knowledge where we all exist as His characters. His voice is even created and that's my created existence. His voice is spoken through His prophets and saints to teach us who we are.

If you've seen the movie Matrix, you can use it as an analogy of what's going on in this world and how God can use us saints to teach us who we are in Him.

"Because he can"

I'm aware he can create us but what is his motivation for doing so?

Are you privy to that answer ? Do you know the motivations of God?

There is no reason other than He can. The reason He created two ages was to use the first age to teach us that we're living in His dream. In the next age, we'll be content with all the dream experiences we have for eternity without any questions. We'll be living the answer, The answer is our Creator and His thoughts where we exist.

He can isn't a reason, otherwise he'd simply do everything he was capable of?

Does he do everything he is capable of?

He created a program called Eternal Life so we are living as planned. He's capable of doing anything He planned to do.

That's starting to make more sense. I understand what you mean now