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Does spirit exist?

frbnsn
Posts: 353
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11/30/2014 3:39:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 3:26:48 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/30/2014 3:07:59 AM, frbnsn wrote:
What do you think?

Yes.
They sell spirits in any Pub.

No kidding!
If you don't believe, why don't you say straightly?!
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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11/30/2014 3:48:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 3:26:48 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/30/2014 3:07:59 AM, frbnsn wrote:
What do you think?

Yes.
They sell spirits in any Pub.

haha, local legislation permitting.

yes spirit exists. It permeates all space and time and effects the material world like other energies do. It accumulates and disperses under similar entropic or probabilistic patterns as other tensor fields do. I suspect it's transmitting boson is extremely light maybe even massless. And that it can navigate through all 12 dimensions of this universe and most readily seen in everyday occurrence as a sensation of presence by religious people with thicker cortices in the left and right parietal and occipital region. "Presence" being how the human mind perceives the spatial "pressure" of spirit. The perception of this spiritual field can be explained by Quantum Brain Dynamics.

I look forward to someone presenting evidence that contradicts my model.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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11/30/2014 4:00:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
yes that was a bit of psuedo science hogwash, but totally in kind with the same kind of "valid" explanations given for the existence of parts of Evolution, Dark energy ect..

Science today is the manufacturing of models that match observable patterns or end points.
bulproof
Posts: 25,272
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11/30/2014 5:11:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 3:07:59 AM, frbnsn wrote:
What do you think?

Yes and Scotch Whisky is the best.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
dee-em
Posts: 6,476
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11/30/2014 5:54:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 3:39:05 AM, frbnsn wrote:
At 11/30/2014 3:26:48 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/30/2014 3:07:59 AM, frbnsn wrote:
What do you think?

Yes.
They sell spirits in any Pub.

No kidding!
If you don't believe, why don't you say straightly?!

You can ask for any spirit in a pub, straight up.
dee-em
Posts: 6,476
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11/30/2014 6:00:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 4:00:34 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
yes that was a bit of psuedo science hogwash, but totally in kind with the same kind of "valid" explanations given for the existence of parts of Evolution, Dark energy ect..

You don't have a clue about science, do you?

Science today is the manufacturing of models that match observable patterns or end points.

Uh huh. Right. That's science in a nutshell alright. *rolls eyes*
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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11/30/2014 6:06:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 6:00:05 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 11/30/2014 4:00:34 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
yes that was a bit of psuedo science hogwash, but totally in kind with the same kind of "valid" explanations given for the existence of parts of Evolution, Dark energy ect..

You don't have a clue about science, do you?

Science today is the manufacturing of models that match observable patterns or end points.

Uh huh. Right. That's science in a nutshell alright. *rolls eyes*

This post is about "spirit". The trend I see in science today I feel is accurate, but a debate about it is probably better left in a different post.

Do you have any point that I might rebuttal or is this post just to soften the audience up with ad hominem attacks and what I can only guess are rhetorical abrasive questions?

(que sarcasm) I appreciate your interest and the addition to the subject matter *rolls eyes*
dee-em
Posts: 6,476
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11/30/2014 6:16:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 6:06:06 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/30/2014 6:00:05 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 11/30/2014 4:00:34 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
yes that was a bit of psuedo science hogwash, but totally in kind with the same kind of "valid" explanations given for the existence of parts of Evolution, Dark energy ect..

You don't have a clue about science, do you?

Science today is the manufacturing of models that match observable patterns or end points.

Uh huh. Right. That's science in a nutshell alright. *rolls eyes*

This post is about "spirit". The trend I see in science today I feel is accurate, but a debate about it is probably better left in a different post.

Yes, I'm sure you "feel" it's accurate. It's a pity that what you describe is the very antithesis of science.

This thread is about "spirit" but you chose to turn it into an ignorant tirade about the alleged failings of science. Then you complain when someone calls you out on it.

Do you have any point that I might rebuttal or is this post just to soften the audience up with ad hominem attacks and what I can only guess are rhetorical abrasive questions?

What is there to rebut? You can't rebut ignorance.
Is that abrasive enough for you?

(que sarcasm) I appreciate your interest and the addition to the subject matter *rolls eyes*

How could anyone possibly top your priceless gem of a contribution?
Sarcastic enough for you?
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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11/30/2014 6:23:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 6:16:26 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 11/30/2014 6:06:06 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/30/2014 6:00:05 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 11/30/2014 4:00:34 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
yes that was a bit of psuedo science hogwash, but totally in kind with the same kind of "valid" explanations given for the existence of parts of Evolution, Dark energy ect..

You don't have a clue about science, do you?

Science today is the manufacturing of models that match observable patterns or end points.

Uh huh. Right. That's science in a nutshell alright. *rolls eyes*

This post is about "spirit". The trend I see in science today I feel is accurate, but a debate about it is probably better left in a different post.

Yes, I'm sure you "feel" it's accurate. It's a pity that what you describe is the very antithesis of science.

This thread is about "spirit" but you chose to turn it into an ignorant tirade about the alleged failings of science. Then you complain when someone calls you out on it.

Do you have any point that I might rebuttal or is this post just to soften the audience up with ad hominem attacks and what I can only guess are rhetorical abrasive questions?

What is there to rebut? You can't rebut ignorance.
Is that abrasive enough for you?

(que sarcasm) I appreciate your interest and the addition to the subject matter *rolls eyes*

How could anyone possibly top your priceless gem of a contribution?
Sarcastic enough for you?

Seriously that is what science is. It is an inductive reasoning approach the generate models. The trend I see occurring is many scientist are getting accolades for models supported by only a fraction of hard observable data that complies with their model.

But I'm not mistaken in what science is, meant to be, or have any illusions to the extent of it's power as a man-made tool of investigation.

Now would you like to contend or offer something in response to what I stated "spirit" was? Spirit is a force that permeates space and time, is perceived by people with particular brain structure.
dee-em
Posts: 6,476
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11/30/2014 6:43:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 6:23:55 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/30/2014 6:16:26 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 11/30/2014 6:06:06 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/30/2014 6:00:05 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 11/30/2014 4:00:34 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
yes that was a bit of psuedo science hogwash, but totally in kind with the same kind of "valid" explanations given for the existence of parts of Evolution, Dark energy ect..

You don't have a clue about science, do you?

Science today is the manufacturing of models that match observable patterns or end points.

Uh huh. Right. That's science in a nutshell alright. *rolls eyes*

This post is about "spirit". The trend I see in science today I feel is accurate, but a debate about it is probably better left in a different post.

Yes, I'm sure you "feel" it's accurate. It's a pity that what you describe is the very antithesis of science.

This thread is about "spirit" but you chose to turn it into an ignorant tirade about the alleged failings of science. Then you complain when someone calls you out on it.

Do you have any point that I might rebuttal or is this post just to soften the audience up with ad hominem attacks and what I can only guess are rhetorical abrasive questions?

What is there to rebut? You can't rebut ignorance.
Is that abrasive enough for you?

(que sarcasm) I appreciate your interest and the addition to the subject matter *rolls eyes*

How could anyone possibly top your priceless gem of a contribution?
Sarcastic enough for you?

Seriously that is what science is. It is an inductive reasoning approach the generate models. The trend I see occurring is many scientist are getting accolades for models supported by only a fraction of hard observable data that complies with their model.

Wtf are you talking about? Science in which field? Are you referring to climate science?

Give us an example of what you mean so we can verify if your criticism is valid. Vague accusations are a dime a dozen.

But I'm not mistaken in what science is, meant to be, or have any illusions to the extent of it's power as a man-made tool of investigation.

Uh huh.

Now would you like to contend or offer something in response to what I stated "spirit" was? Spirit is a force that permeates space and time, is perceived by people with particular brain structure.

You mean the post you yourself confessed was a lame attempt at caricaturing science? You want me to comment on it now? Ha ha ha ha.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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11/30/2014 7:13:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 6:43:14 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 11/30/2014 6:23:55 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/30/2014 6:16:26 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 11/30/2014 6:06:06 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/30/2014 6:00:05 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 11/30/2014 4:00:34 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
yes that was a bit of psuedo science hogwash, but totally in kind with the same kind of "valid" explanations given for the existence of parts of Evolution, Dark energy ect..

You don't have a clue about science, do you?

Science today is the manufacturing of models that match observable patterns or end points.

Uh huh. Right. That's science in a nutshell alright. *rolls eyes*

This post is about "spirit". The trend I see in science today I feel is accurate, but a debate about it is probably better left in a different post.

Yes, I'm sure you "feel" it's accurate. It's a pity that what you describe is the very antithesis of science.

This thread is about "spirit" but you chose to turn it into an ignorant tirade about the alleged failings of science. Then you complain when someone calls you out on it.

Do you have any point that I might rebuttal or is this post just to soften the audience up with ad hominem attacks and what I can only guess are rhetorical abrasive questions?

What is there to rebut? You can't rebut ignorance.
Is that abrasive enough for you?

(que sarcasm) I appreciate your interest and the addition to the subject matter *rolls eyes*

How could anyone possibly top your priceless gem of a contribution?
Sarcastic enough for you?

Seriously that is what science is. It is an inductive reasoning approach the generate models. The trend I see occurring is many scientist are getting accolades for models supported by only a fraction of hard observable data that complies with their model.

Wtf are you talking about? Science in which field? Are you referring to climate science?

Give us an example of what you mean so we can verify if your criticism is valid. Vague accusations are a dime a dozen.

But I'm not mistaken in what science is, meant to be, or have any illusions to the extent of it's power as a man-made tool of investigation.

Uh huh.

Now would you like to contend or offer something in response to what I stated "spirit" was? Spirit is a force that permeates space and time, is perceived by people with particular brain structure.

You mean the post you yourself confessed was a lame attempt at caricaturing science? You want me to comment on it now? Ha ha ha ha.

http://www.batesville.k12.in.us...
Made for what I think is grade school students.

http://en.wikipedia.org...
Wikipedia

https://www.utexas.edu...
University Biology

http://www.gly.uga.edu...
Definition of Science "To summarize, science becomes knowledge by publication of research results. It then may become more general knowledge as writers of textbooks pick and choose what to put in their texts, and as professors and teachers then decide what to stress from those textbooks. Publication is critical, although not all publication is created equal."

By search results they mean a model derived by the inductive scientific method to describe the real world, by science they mean a consensus or review of that model by a select group. Vote by populace.

http://www.livescience.com...
quote "A key function in this step in the scientific method is deriving predictions from the hypotheses about the results of future experiments, then performing those experiments to see whether they support the predictions. "

Observations do not make predictions, models do.

http://catdir.loc.gov...
Of course I don't think there is a such thing as "Common Sense" But not a bad read for your mental capacity despite the usage.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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11/30/2014 7:20:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Reiterate Science is an inductive reasoning used to generate models of observed phenomenon and is a man-made tool of investigation.

This concept should be so simple and obvious to anyone who studies a mediocre amount of Science, I'm disgusted that I even have to backup such a statement.

SHOULD entail the testing of those models against said observations or experimentation, but today that doesn't seem to hinder an idea being accepted as true, or being force fed as true to the general populace.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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11/30/2014 8:14:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 7:20:36 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
Reiterate Science is an inductive reasoning used to generate models of observed phenomenon and is a man-made tool of investigation.

This concept should be so simple and obvious to anyone who studies a mediocre amount of Science, I'm disgusted that I even have to backup such a statement.

SHOULD entail the testing of those models against said observations or experimentation, but today that doesn't seem to hinder an idea being accepted as true, or being force fed as true to the general populace.

And more in this debate I had awhile ago.

http://www.debate.org...
12_13
Posts: 1,364
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11/30/2014 8:14:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 3:07:59 AM, frbnsn wrote:
What do you think?

According to the Bible God is spirit and God is love. So that seems to mean that love is spirit. What do you think, does love exist? I think it exists, but it seems to me that there ain"t no love in heart of the atheists.

God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.
John 4:24

He who doesn't love doesn't know God, for God is love.
1 John 4:8

We know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and he who remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him.
1 John 4:16

But what do you think, does team spirit exist? How can you know that?
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,633
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11/30/2014 10:58:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 3:48:27 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/30/2014 3:26:48 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/30/2014 3:07:59 AM, frbnsn wrote:
What do you think?

Yes.
They sell spirits in any Pub.

haha, local legislation permitting.

yes spirit exists. It permeates all space and time and effects the material world like other energies do. It accumulates and disperses under similar entropic or probabilistic patterns as other tensor fields do. I suspect it's transmitting boson is extremely light maybe even massless. And that it can navigate through all 12 dimensions of this universe and most readily seen in everyday occurrence as a sensation of presence by religious people with thicker cortices in the left and right parietal and occipital region. "Presence" being how the human mind perceives the spatial "pressure" of spirit. The perception of this spiritual field can be explained by Quantum Brain Dynamics.

I look forward to someone presenting evidence that contradicts my model.

The "other energies" that affect our world are detectable and measurable while 'spirit' is not.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,130
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11/30/2014 11:10:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 3:07:59 AM, frbnsn wrote:
What do you think?

No.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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11/30/2014 11:21:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 10:58:17 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 11/30/2014 3:48:27 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/30/2014 3:26:48 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/30/2014 3:07:59 AM, frbnsn wrote:
What do you think?

Yes.
They sell spirits in any Pub.

haha, local legislation permitting.

yes spirit exists. It permeates all space and time and effects the material world like other energies do. It accumulates and disperses under similar entropic or probabilistic patterns as other tensor fields do. I suspect it's transmitting boson is extremely light maybe even massless. And that it can navigate through all 12 dimensions of this universe and most readily seen in everyday occurrence as a sensation of presence by religious people with thicker cortices in the left and right parietal and occipital region. "Presence" being how the human mind perceives the spatial "pressure" of spirit. The perception of this spiritual field can be explained by Quantum Brain Dynamics.

I look forward to someone presenting evidence that contradicts my model.

The "other energies" that affect our world are detectable and measurable while 'spirit' is not.

Dark Energy is said to effect this world.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

It's widely accepted as fact. Can you please point to the experiment that has detected Dark Energy?

If we are even to find "spirit" we would have to agree in how it effects the physical world and what indicators would be a demonstration of such a force existing. And I'm postulating that Dark Energy is synonymous with "Spirit" should not be confused with "Soul" that has such characteristics as consciousness.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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11/30/2014 11:24:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 3:07:59 AM, frbnsn wrote:
What do you think?

Define "spirit" coherently and then I might be able to give an answer.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,633
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11/30/2014 11:57:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 11:21:16 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/30/2014 10:58:17 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 11/30/2014 3:48:27 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/30/2014 3:26:48 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/30/2014 3:07:59 AM, frbnsn wrote:
What do you think?

Yes.
They sell spirits in any Pub.

haha, local legislation permitting.

yes spirit exists. It permeates all space and time and effects the material world like other energies do. It accumulates and disperses under similar entropic or probabilistic patterns as other tensor fields do. I suspect it's transmitting boson is extremely light maybe even massless. And that it can navigate through all 12 dimensions of this universe and most readily seen in everyday occurrence as a sensation of presence by religious people with thicker cortices in the left and right parietal and occipital region. "Presence" being how the human mind perceives the spatial "pressure" of spirit. The perception of this spiritual field can be explained by Quantum Brain Dynamics.

I look forward to someone presenting evidence that contradicts my model.

The "other energies" that affect our world are detectable and measurable while 'spirit' is not.

Dark Energy is said to effect this world.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

It's widely accepted as fact. Can you please point to the experiment that has detected Dark Energy?

Sorry, that is a strawman argument. You need to provide evidence for your claims.

If we are even to find "spirit" we would have to agree in how it effects the physical world and what indicators would be a demonstration of such a force existing.

You have already made that claim, right here when you said this:

" It permeates all space and time and effects the material world like other energies do."

And I'm postulating that Dark Energy is synonymous with "Spirit" should not be confused with "Soul" that has such characteristics as consciousness.

You are offering only strawman arguments. Please support your claims.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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11/30/2014 12:24:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 11:57:34 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 11/30/2014 11:21:16 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/30/2014 10:58:17 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 11/30/2014 3:48:27 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/30/2014 3:26:48 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/30/2014 3:07:59 AM, frbnsn wrote:
What do you think?

Yes.
They sell spirits in any Pub.

haha, local legislation permitting.

yes spirit exists. It permeates all space and time and effects the material world like other energies do. It accumulates and disperses under similar entropic or probabilistic patterns as other tensor fields do. I suspect it's transmitting boson is extremely light maybe even massless. And that it can navigate through all 12 dimensions of this universe and most readily seen in everyday occurrence as a sensation of presence by religious people with thicker cortices in the left and right parietal and occipital region. "Presence" being how the human mind perceives the spatial "pressure" of spirit. The perception of this spiritual field can be explained by Quantum Brain Dynamics.

I look forward to someone presenting evidence that contradicts my model.

The "other energies" that affect our world are detectable and measurable while 'spirit' is not.

Dark Energy is said to effect this world.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

It's widely accepted as fact. Can you please point to the experiment that has detected Dark Energy?

Sorry, that is a strawman argument. You need to provide evidence for your claims.

No you made the claim that all energies are that effect this world are detectable. I agree with that statement because the effect is what is being detected. I am using "Dark Energy" as an example and asking for the evidence found for it's existence.

If there is no evidence for Dark Energies existence, then is it not to be relegated to the realm of imagination. Now I say Spirit is a force permeating ALL space and time and effects the creation of all thing in universe and the universe itself. This is a description perfectly in tune with what is described to be "Spirit" by theist.

And now I say that what is being called "Dark Energy" is in fact what has always been called "Spirit"

So we have the subject in question "Spirit" defined. We have the effect I say it causes within this universe, there by making it detectable by experimentation.

Where is the evidence for "Spirit", well mathematical models based on the assumption that the universe is a closed system using "spirit" match and explain accurately the observed expansion of the universe. Which is predicted by the model suggesting 68% the majority of this universe is Spiritual in nature.

I await more experimentation to isolate and find this energy but it will be a truly blessed day when that occurs.


If we are even to find "spirit" we would have to agree in how it effects the physical world and what indicators would be a demonstration of such a force existing.

You have already made that claim, right here when you said this:

" It permeates all space and time and effects the material world like other energies do."

And I'm postulating that Dark Energy is synonymous with "Spirit" should not be confused with "Soul" that has such characteristics as consciousness.

You are offering only strawman arguments. Please support your claims.

My claims are counter claims to your statement. that all energies effect this universe and spirit does not.

Your assumption is of course that ALL energies that EFFECT this universe are ALREADY KNOWN by you. My contention is all the forces you know that have been experimentally found taken as a whole do NOT constitute a sufficient system of forces to EXPLAIN the universe as we see it.

I'll try to say that differently. IF all the things you know of, taken together can NOT describe or accurately predict the observations we see of this Universe than the logical conclusion is what? Either your understanding of the known forces is incomplete OR you don't have all the pieces.

So my opposing hypothesis "Spirit" if it does explain the observed universe then it has more explanatory value.

This weighing of ideas is actually how logical people discern if they have a complete understanding of something or if they should be looking for more. And explanatory value among competing postulations is how reasonable people discern what they accept as truth.

So in a debate, or reasonable discussion your next move will be to explain how all the experimentally verified forms of energy or forces you know of is sufficient. OR you attack my hypothesis of "Spirit" by drawing attention to it being unable to exist due to establish laws of nature and/or logic.

That's how back and forth debates between reasonable logical people happen. You don't get the intellectual veracity of your claims by making them, calling mine a strawman and reasserting your own ad nasuem.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,633
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11/30/2014 12:48:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 12:24:31 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/30/2014 11:57:34 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 11/30/2014 11:21:16 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/30/2014 10:58:17 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 11/30/2014 3:48:27 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/30/2014 3:26:48 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/30/2014 3:07:59 AM, frbnsn wrote:
What do you think?

Yes.
They sell spirits in any Pub.

haha, local legislation permitting.

yes spirit exists. It permeates all space and time and effects the material world like other energies do. It accumulates and disperses under similar entropic or probabilistic patterns as other tensor fields do. I suspect it's transmitting boson is extremely light maybe even massless. And that it can navigate through all 12 dimensions of this universe and most readily seen in everyday occurrence as a sensation of presence by religious people with thicker cortices in the left and right parietal and occipital region. "Presence" being how the human mind perceives the spatial "pressure" of spirit. The perception of this spiritual field can be explained by Quantum Brain Dynamics.

I look forward to someone presenting evidence that contradicts my model.

The "other energies" that affect our world are detectable and measurable while 'spirit' is not.

Dark Energy is said to effect this world.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

It's widely accepted as fact. Can you please point to the experiment that has detected Dark Energy?

Sorry, that is a strawman argument. You need to provide evidence for your claims.

No you made the claim that all energies are that effect this world are detectable. I agree with that statement because the effect is what is being detected. I am using "Dark Energy" as an example and asking for the evidence found for it's existence.

If there is no evidence for Dark Energies existence, then is it not to be relegated to the realm of imagination. Now I say Spirit is a force permeating ALL space and time and effects the creation of all thing in universe and the universe itself. This is a description perfectly in tune with what is described to be "Spirit" by theist.

And now I say that what is being called "Dark Energy" is in fact what has always been called "Spirit"

So we have the subject in question "Spirit" defined. We have the effect I say it causes within this universe, there by making it detectable by experimentation.

Where is the evidence for "Spirit", well mathematical models based on the assumption that the universe is a closed system using "spirit" match and explain accurately the observed expansion of the universe. Which is predicted by the model suggesting 68% the majority of this universe is Spiritual in nature.

I await more experimentation to isolate and find this energy but it will be a truly blessed day when that occurs.


If we are even to find "spirit" we would have to agree in how it effects the physical world and what indicators would be a demonstration of such a force existing.

You have already made that claim, right here when you said this:

" It permeates all space and time and effects the material world like other energies do."

And I'm postulating that Dark Energy is synonymous with "Spirit" should not be confused with "Soul" that has such characteristics as consciousness.

You are offering only strawman arguments. Please support your claims.

My claims are counter claims to your statement. that all energies effect this universe and spirit does not.

Once again, I will post your claim:

" It (Spirit) permeates all space and time and effects the material world like other energies do."

Please support your claim with evidence.

Your assumption is of course that ALL energies that EFFECT this universe are ALREADY KNOWN by you.

You have made a positive claim that Spirit is an energy KNOWN to you. Please provide the evidence.

My contention is all the forces you know that have been experimentally found taken as a whole do NOT constitute a sufficient system of forces to EXPLAIN the universe as we see it.

That is yet another claim you would need to support, which is a red herring. Please support your original claim:

" It (Spirit) permeates all space and time and effects the material world like other energies do."

I'll try to say that differently. IF all the things you know of, taken together can NOT describe or accurately predict the observations we see of this Universe than the logical conclusion is what? Either your understanding of the known forces is incomplete OR you don't have all the pieces.

You first need to show the evidence to how you know Spirit does in fact exist as you have claimed here:

" It (Spirit) permeates all space and time and effects the material world like other energies do."

So my opposing hypothesis "Spirit" if it does explain the observed universe then it has more explanatory value.

It has no value whatsoever, it is worthless.

This weighing of ideas is actually how logical people discern if they have a complete understanding of something or if they should be looking for more. And explanatory value among competing postulations is how reasonable people discern what they accept as truth.

So in a debate, or reasonable discussion your next move will be to explain how all the experimentally verified forms of energy or forces you know of is sufficient. OR you attack my hypothesis of "Spirit" by drawing attention to it being unable to exist due to establish laws of nature and/or logic.

That's how back and forth debates between reasonable logical people happen. You don't get the intellectual veracity of your claims by making them, calling mine a strawman and reasserting your own ad nasuem.

Sorry, but you have made a positive claim, this:

" It permeates all space and time and effects the material world like other energies do."

Then, you said this:

" I look forward to someone presenting evidence that contradicts my model."

Your model is invalid because you have no evidence to support your claim.

Next.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Mhykiel
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11/30/2014 12:58:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 12:48:58 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 11/30/2014 12:24:31 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/30/2014 11:57:34 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 11/30/2014 11:21:16 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/30/2014 10:58:17 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 11/30/2014 3:48:27 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/30/2014 3:26:48 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/30/2014 3:07:59 AM, frbnsn wrote:
What do you think?

Yes.
They sell spirits in any Pub.

haha, local legislation permitting.

yes spirit exists. It permeates all space and time and effects the material world like other energies do. It accumulates and disperses under similar entropic or probabilistic patterns as other tensor fields do. I suspect it's transmitting boson is extremely light maybe even massless. And that it can navigate through all 12 dimensions of this universe and most readily seen in everyday occurrence as a sensation of presence by religious people with thicker cortices in the left and right parietal and occipital region. "Presence" being how the human mind perceives the spatial "pressure" of spirit. The perception of this spiritual field can be explained by Quantum Brain Dynamics.

I look forward to someone presenting evidence that contradicts my model.

The "other energies" that affect our world are detectable and measurable while 'spirit' is not.

Dark Energy is said to effect this world.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

It's widely accepted as fact. Can you please point to the experiment that has detected Dark Energy?

Sorry, that is a strawman argument. You need to provide evidence for your claims.

No you made the claim that all energies are that effect this world are detectable. I agree with that statement because the effect is what is being detected. I am using "Dark Energy" as an example and asking for the evidence found for it's existence.

If there is no evidence for Dark Energies existence, then is it not to be relegated to the realm of imagination. Now I say Spirit is a force permeating ALL space and time and effects the creation of all thing in universe and the universe itself. This is a description perfectly in tune with what is described to be "Spirit" by theist.

And now I say that what is being called "Dark Energy" is in fact what has always been called "Spirit"

So we have the subject in question "Spirit" defined. We have the effect I say it causes within this universe, there by making it detectable by experimentation.

Where is the evidence for "Spirit", well mathematical models based on the assumption that the universe is a closed system using "spirit" match and explain accurately the observed expansion of the universe. Which is predicted by the model suggesting 68% the majority of this universe is Spiritual in nature.

I await more experimentation to isolate and find this energy but it will be a truly blessed day when that occurs.


If we are even to find "spirit" we would have to agree in how it effects the physical world and what indicators would be a demonstration of such a force existing.

You have already made that claim, right here when you said this:

" It permeates all space and time and effects the material world like other energies do."

And I'm postulating that Dark Energy is synonymous with "Spirit" should not be confused with "Soul" that has such characteristics as consciousness.

You are offering only strawman arguments. Please support your claims.

My claims are counter claims to your statement. that all energies effect this universe and spirit does not.

Once again, I will post your claim:

" It (Spirit) permeates all space and time and effects the material world like other energies do."

Please support your claim with evidence.

Your assumption is of course that ALL energies that EFFECT this universe are ALREADY KNOWN by you.

You have made a positive claim that Spirit is an energy KNOWN to you. Please provide the evidence.

My contention is all the forces you know that have been experimentally found taken as a whole do NOT constitute a sufficient system of forces to EXPLAIN the universe as we see it.

That is yet another claim you would need to support, which is a red herring. Please support your original claim:

" It (Spirit) permeates all space and time and effects the material world like other energies do."

I'll try to say that differently. IF all the things you know of, taken together can NOT describe or accurately predict the observations we see of this Universe than the logical conclusion is what? Either your understanding of the known forces is incomplete OR you don't have all the pieces.

You first need to show the evidence to how you know Spirit does in fact exist as you have claimed here:

" It (Spirit) permeates all space and time and effects the material world like other energies do."

So my opposing hypothesis "Spirit" if it does explain the observed universe then it has more explanatory value.

It has no value whatsoever, it is worthless.

This weighing of ideas is actually how logical people discern if they have a complete understanding of something or if they should be looking for more. And explanatory value among competing postulations is how reasonable people discern what they accept as truth.

So in a debate, or reasonable discussion your next move will be to explain how all the experimentally verified forms of energy or forces you know of is sufficient. OR you attack my hypothesis of "Spirit" by drawing attention to it being unable to exist due to establish laws of nature and/or logic.

That's how back and forth debates between reasonable logical people happen. You don't get the intellectual veracity of your claims by making them, calling mine a strawman and reasserting your own ad nasuem.

Sorry, but you have made a positive claim, this:

" It permeates all space and time and effects the material world like other energies do."

Then, you said this:

" I look forward to someone presenting evidence that contradicts my model."

Your model is invalid because you have no evidence to support your claim.

Next.

I said:

Where is the evidence for "Spirit", well mathematical models based on the assumption that the universe is a closed system using "spirit" match and explain accurately the observed expansion of the universe. Which is predicted by the model suggesting 68% the majority of this universe is Spiritual in nature.

I await more experimentation to isolate and find this energy but it will be a truly blessed day when that occurs.

You completely glossed over my argument that something more than the forces you accept as existing is necessary to adequately describe the observations of the universe we know of.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,633
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11/30/2014 1:12:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 12:58:16 PM, Mhykiel wrote:

Where is the evidence for "Spirit", well mathematical models based on the assumption that the universe is a closed system using "spirit" match and explain accurately the observed expansion of the universe. Which is predicted by the model suggesting 68% the majority of this universe is Spiritual in nature.

I await more experimentation to isolate and find this energy but it will be a truly blessed day when that occurs.

Bwahahahahaha! My sides, they are a splittin' with that one.

You completely glossed over my argument that something more than the forces you accept as existing is necessary to adequately describe the observations of the universe we know of.

You have no argument.

Next time, try making claims you can actually show evidence for rather than just pulling stuff out of thin air.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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11/30/2014 2:02:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 1:12:56 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 11/30/2014 12:58:16 PM, Mhykiel wrote:

Where is the evidence for "Spirit", well mathematical models based on the assumption that the universe is a closed system using "spirit" match and explain accurately the observed expansion of the universe. Which is predicted by the model suggesting 68% the majority of this universe is Spiritual in nature.

I await more experimentation to isolate and find this energy but it will be a truly blessed day when that occurs.

Bwahahahahaha! My sides, they are a splittin' with that one.

You completely glossed over my argument that something more than the forces you accept as existing is necessary to adequately describe the observations of the universe we know of.

You have no argument.

Next time, try making claims you can actually show evidence for rather than just pulling stuff out of thin air.

Sorry you don't see a lack of explanatory power for observations of this reality as reason to search for more.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,633
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11/30/2014 2:05:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 2:02:20 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/30/2014 1:12:56 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 11/30/2014 12:58:16 PM, Mhykiel wrote:

Where is the evidence for "Spirit", well mathematical models based on the assumption that the universe is a closed system using "spirit" match and explain accurately the observed expansion of the universe. Which is predicted by the model suggesting 68% the majority of this universe is Spiritual in nature.

I await more experimentation to isolate and find this energy but it will be a truly blessed day when that occurs.

Bwahahahahaha! My sides, they are a splittin' with that one.

You completely glossed over my argument that something more than the forces you accept as existing is necessary to adequately describe the observations of the universe we know of.

You have no argument.

Next time, try making claims you can actually show evidence for rather than just pulling stuff out of thin air.

Sorry you don't see a lack of explanatory power for observations of this reality as reason to search for more.

I see an empty claim that has no evidence. It failed.

Now, you're saying there are "observations of this reality", yet another empty claim.

What observations?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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11/30/2014 2:09:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 2:05:21 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 11/30/2014 2:02:20 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/30/2014 1:12:56 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 11/30/2014 12:58:16 PM, Mhykiel wrote:

Where is the evidence for "Spirit", well mathematical models based on the assumption that the universe is a closed system using "spirit" match and explain accurately the observed expansion of the universe. Which is predicted by the model suggesting 68% the majority of this universe is Spiritual in nature.

I await more experimentation to isolate and find this energy but it will be a truly blessed day when that occurs.

Bwahahahahaha! My sides, they are a splittin' with that one.

You completely glossed over my argument that something more than the forces you accept as existing is necessary to adequately describe the observations of the universe we know of.

You have no argument.

Next time, try making claims you can actually show evidence for rather than just pulling stuff out of thin air.

Sorry you don't see a lack of explanatory power for observations of this reality as reason to search for more.

I see an empty claim that has no evidence. It failed.

Now, you're saying there are "observations of this reality", yet another empty claim.

What observations?

The observation being the universe's accelerated expansion.

Your assumption is of course that ALL energies that EFFECT this universe are ALREADY KNOWN by you. My contention is all the forces you know that have been experimentally found taken as a whole do NOT constitute a sufficient system of forces to EXPLAIN the universe as we see it.

I'll try to say that differently. IF all the things you know of, taken together can NOT describe or accurately predict the observations we see of this Universe than the logical conclusion is what? Either your understanding of the known forces is incomplete OR you don't have all the pieces.

So my opposing hypothesis "Spirit" if it does explain the observed universe then it has more explanatory value.

This weighing of ideas is actually how logical people discern if they have a complete understanding of something or if they should be looking for more. And explanatory value among competing postulations is how reasonable people discern what they accept as truth.

So in a debate, or reasonable discussion your next move will be to explain how all the experimentally verified forms of energy or forces you know of is sufficient. OR you attack my hypothesis of "Spirit" by drawing attention to it being unable to exist due to establish laws of nature and/or logic.
Envisage
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11/30/2014 2:10:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Nobody in this thread has coherently defined what a "spirit" is. So you are all essentially talking past each other. A waste of time.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,633
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11/30/2014 2:15:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 2:09:21 PM, Mhykiel wrote:

The observation being the universe's accelerated expansion.

But, that the universe's accelerated expansion is based on General Relativity, not the Bible.

Your assumption...

Dude, let's get one thing sparkling, crystal clear. I made no such assumptions, those are YOUR words in my mouth. You can stop doing that anytime now. Thanks.

...is of course that ALL energies that EFFECT this universe are ALREADY KNOWN by you.

That is pure baloney, you made the positive claim of a spirit, now back it up or shut up.

I'll try to say that differently. IF all the things you know of, taken together can NOT describe or accurately predict the observations we see of this Universe than the logical conclusion is what?

Like I said, General Relativity, not the Bible.Either your understanding of the known forces is incomplete OR you don't have all the pieces.

So my opposing hypothesis "Spirit" if it does explain the observed universe then it has more explanatory value.

It doesn't explain anything because you have yet to show me the evidence of spirit.

This weighing of ideas is actually how logical people discern if they have a complete understanding of something or if they should be looking for more. And explanatory value among competing postulations is how reasonable people discern what they accept as truth.

So in a debate, or reasonable discussion your next move will be to explain how all the experimentally verified forms of energy or forces you know of is sufficient. OR you attack my hypothesis of "Spirit" by drawing attention to it being unable to exist due to establish laws of nature and/or logic.

Just cut the crap and show us the evidence for your claims, or shut the hell up.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth