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Miraculous Jesus? Historical or not?

bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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11/30/2014 4:47:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Let's find any historians who claim the historicity of the miraculous Jesus?

Do you godbotherers have any?
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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11/30/2014 5:23:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 4:47:57 AM, bulproof wrote:
Let's find any historians who claim the historicity of the miraculous Jesus?

Do you godbotherers have any?

The "miraculous Jesus"? Now we're supposed to locate "historians" who believe that Jesus existed and performed miracles as well?

What kind of historian? Shouldn't you .. umm ... specify that, too? If you just want a recognized historian, I'll give you one: Dr. Charles P. Roland, professor emeritus of history at the University of Kentucky. His mother was my great aunt, and I know what he believes.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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11/30/2014 5:27:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 5:23:06 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/30/2014 4:47:57 AM, bulproof wrote:
Let's find any historians who claim the historicity of the miraculous Jesus?

Do you godbotherers have any?

The "miraculous Jesus"? Now we're supposed to locate "historians" who believe that Jesus existed and performed miracles as well?

What kind of historian? Shouldn't you .. umm ... specify that, too? If you just want a recognized historian, I'll give you one: Dr. Charles P. Roland, professor emeritus of history at the University of Kentucky. His mother was my great aunt, and I know what he believes.

Belief isn't Proof!
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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11/30/2014 5:27:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 5:23:06 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/30/2014 4:47:57 AM, bulproof wrote:
Let's find any historians who claim the historicity of the miraculous Jesus?

Do you godbotherers have any?

The "miraculous Jesus"? Now we're supposed to locate "historians" who believe that Jesus existed and performed miracles as well?

What kind of historian? Shouldn't you .. umm ... specify that, too? If you just want a recognized historian, I'll give you one: Dr. Charles P. Roland, professor emeritus of history at the University of Kentucky. His mother was my great aunt, and I know what he believes.

Now that is exactly what I'm after.
Show us something he has written in support of the claim.
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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11/30/2014 5:28:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 5:27:17 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/30/2014 5:23:06 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/30/2014 4:47:57 AM, bulproof wrote:
Let's find any historians who claim the historicity of the miraculous Jesus?

Do you godbotherers have any?

The "miraculous Jesus"? Now we're supposed to locate "historians" who believe that Jesus existed and performed miracles as well?

What kind of historian? Shouldn't you .. umm ... specify that, too? If you just want a recognized historian, I'll give you one: Dr. Charles P. Roland, professor emeritus of history at the University of Kentucky. His mother was my great aunt, and I know what he believes.

Now that is exactly what I'm after.
Show us something he has written in support of the claim.

I have no idea what he's written: all I've ever read from him had to do with the War Between the States.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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11/30/2014 5:29:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 5:27:07 AM, Composer wrote:
At 11/30/2014 5:23:06 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/30/2014 4:47:57 AM, bulproof wrote:
Let's find any historians who claim the historicity of the miraculous Jesus?

Do you godbotherers have any?

The "miraculous Jesus"? Now we're supposed to locate "historians" who believe that Jesus existed and performed miracles as well?

What kind of historian? Shouldn't you .. umm ... specify that, too? If you just want a recognized historian, I'll give you one: Dr. Charles P. Roland, professor emeritus of history at the University of Kentucky. His mother was my great aunt, and I know what he believes.

Belief isn't Proof!

Nobody said it was. He wanted to know of an historian who believed Jesus performed miracles. I have him one.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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11/30/2014 5:32:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 5:29:20 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/30/2014 5:27:07 AM, Composer wrote:
At 11/30/2014 5:23:06 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/30/2014 4:47:57 AM, bulproof wrote:
Let's find any historians who claim the historicity of the miraculous Jesus?

Do you godbotherers have any?

The "miraculous Jesus"? Now we're supposed to locate "historians" who believe that Jesus existed and performed miracles as well?

What kind of historian? Shouldn't you .. umm ... specify that, too? If you just want a recognized historian, I'll give you one: Dr. Charles P. Roland, professor emeritus of history at the University of Kentucky. His mother was my great aunt, and I know what he believes.

Belief isn't Proof!

Nobody said it was. He wanted to know of an historian who believed Jesus performed miracles. I have him one.
Do you have any official papers by him explaining how he came to that conclusion that we can examine?

Thanks
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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11/30/2014 5:36:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 5:28:31 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/30/2014 5:27:17 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/30/2014 5:23:06 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/30/2014 4:47:57 AM, bulproof wrote:
Let's find any historians who claim the historicity of the miraculous Jesus?

Do you godbotherers have any?

The "miraculous Jesus"? Now we're supposed to locate "historians" who believe that Jesus existed and performed miracles as well?

What kind of historian? Shouldn't you .. umm ... specify that, too? If you just want a recognized historian, I'll give you one: Dr. Charles P. Roland, professor emeritus of history at the University of Kentucky. His mother was my great aunt, and I know what he believes.

Now that is exactly what I'm after.
Show us something he has written in support of the claim.

I have no idea what he's written: all I've ever read from him had to do with the War Between the States.

Well thank you for your answer, just not anything worthwhile.
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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11/30/2014 5:49:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 5:36:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/30/2014 5:28:31 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/30/2014 5:27:17 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/30/2014 5:23:06 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/30/2014 4:47:57 AM, bulproof wrote:
Let's find any historians who claim the historicity of the miraculous Jesus?

Do you godbotherers have any?

The "miraculous Jesus"? Now we're supposed to locate "historians" who believe that Jesus existed and performed miracles as well?

What kind of historian? Shouldn't you .. umm ... specify that, too? If you just want a recognized historian, I'll give you one: Dr. Charles P. Roland, professor emeritus of history at the University of Kentucky. His mother was my great aunt, and I know what he believes.

Now that is exactly what I'm after.
Show us something he has written in support of the claim.

I have no idea what he's written: all I've ever read from him had to do with the War Between the States.

Well thank you for your answer, just not anything worthwhile.

The value of the answer is due mainly to the value of the question.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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11/30/2014 5:59:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 5:49:38 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/30/2014 5:36:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/30/2014 5:28:31 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/30/2014 5:27:17 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/30/2014 5:23:06 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/30/2014 4:47:57 AM, bulproof wrote:
Let's find any historians who claim the historicity of the miraculous Jesus?

Do you godbotherers have any?

The "miraculous Jesus"? Now we're supposed to locate "historians" who believe that Jesus existed and performed miracles as well?

What kind of historian? Shouldn't you .. umm ... specify that, too? If you just want a recognized historian, I'll give you one: Dr. Charles P. Roland, professor emeritus of history at the University of Kentucky. His mother was my great aunt, and I know what he believes.

Now that is exactly what I'm after.
Show us something he has written in support of the claim.

I have no idea what he's written: all I've ever read from him had to do with the War Between the States.

Well thank you for your answer, just not anything worthwhile.

The value of the answer is due mainly to the value of the question.

No it isn't.
I asked you for his supporting documentation and you don't have any.

So you'd best leave it to those who claim to have such evidence.
Thanks Annie. Bye.
IEnglishman
Posts: 148
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11/30/2014 6:01:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 4:47:57 AM, bulproof wrote:
Let's find any historians who claim the historicity of the miraculous Jesus?

Do you godbotherers have any?

Thallus.
Bulproof admits he's a troll http://www.debate.org... (see post 16). Do not feed.
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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11/30/2014 6:11:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 6:01:47 AM, IEnglishman wrote:
At 11/30/2014 4:47:57 AM, bulproof wrote:
Let's find any historians who claim the historicity of the miraculous Jesus?

Do you godbotherers have any?

Thallus.
Will ya just look at that, we have ONE (1) name without any verification or support.
In opposition I bring you Thomson.

Do try to actually pretend to be intelligent even if you aren't.
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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11/30/2014 10:45:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
We seem to have a definite lack of theistic support for the affirmative
Why are you so reluctant to provide your historians?.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,136
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11/30/2014 10:50:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 10:45:31 AM, bulproof wrote:
We seem to have a definite lack of theistic support for the affirmative
Why are you so reluctant to provide your historians?.

Historians can easily back a human Jesus, but when this same Jesus is said to be supernatural, historians are strangely silent.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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11/30/2014 12:56:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 10:50:43 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/30/2014 10:45:31 AM, bulproof wrote:
We seem to have a definite lack of theistic support for the affirmative
Why are you so reluctant to provide your historians?.

Historians can easily back a human Jesus, but when this same Jesus is said to be supernatural, historians are strangely silent.

And a valid point is that the historic Jesus wouldn't even matter if it were not for Christians who try constantly to validate the miraculous Jesus. Absurdity.

Your signature is great. I've often wondered the same thing. Paper can't beat rock. Try as it may to write rock out of existence, the rock will endure long after paper turns to dust. It can only cover rock for a short time. Rock wins. :)
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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11/30/2014 12:59:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
A miraculous Jesus isn't really within the reaches of History to demonstrate. It's much more of a philosophical question.

To which the answer is.. no.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,136
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11/30/2014 3:25:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 12:56:25 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 11/30/2014 10:50:43 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/30/2014 10:45:31 AM, bulproof wrote:
We seem to have a definite lack of theistic support for the affirmative
Why are you so reluctant to provide your historians?.

Historians can easily back a human Jesus, but when this same Jesus is said to be supernatural, historians are strangely silent.

And a valid point is that the historic Jesus wouldn't even matter if it were not for Christians who try constantly to validate the miraculous Jesus. Absurdity.

I agree. Whether supernatural Jesus existed is the real question. The existence of historical Jesus is a necessary prerequisite for the extraordinary, but does nothing to provide evidence for Jesus being anything more than a man.

Your signature is great. I've often wondered the same thing. Paper can't beat rock. Try as it may to write rock out of existence, the rock will endure long after paper turns to dust. It can only cover rock for a short time. Rock wins. :)

Paper has no chance of defeating high velocity rock. :-)
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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12/1/2014 3:00:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
We had our fair share of botherers coming to the rescue of an historical jesus, where have they all gone.
Where are our PhD level historians supporting this incredible figure?
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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12/1/2014 6:55:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 3:00:12 AM, bulproof wrote:
We had our fair share of botherers coming to the rescue of an historical jesus, where have they all gone.
Where are our PhD level historians supporting this incredible figure?

C'mon godbotherers, front up and tell us.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,240
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12/1/2014 2:04:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2014 12:59:24 PM, Envisage wrote:
A miraculous Jesus isn't really within the reaches of History to demonstrate. It's much more of a philosophical question.

To which the answer is.. no.

History wouldn't really have to 'demonstrate' it though, know what I mean? a miraculous figure like that, one would think, would have many many MANY volumes written about him. The various stories of the Bible lend themselves to such, Pilate himself should have recorded what happened to the man he sentenced to die. Feeding crowds of people from small handfuls?

Even opposition to his preaching and miracles should have become prevalent, were he proclaiming himself as the Messiah. Blind people seeing? The sick being cured? The dead brought back to life?

These things are surprising in that they were cataloged by seemingly only a handful of people, coincidentally, all those accounts are in one place. There doesn't appear to be any concurrent people that mentioned Christ, at least as far as the supernatural.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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12/2/2014 7:45:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
It would seem that the miraculous jesus is not in anyway historical.
Question answered in the negative.