Total Posts:135|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Is disbelief immoral?

Skepticalone
Posts: 6,110
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/1/2014 11:04:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Is disbelief in god immoral?
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/1/2014 11:05:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 11:04:49 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Is disbelief in god immoral?

Of course it is.
That's why you go to hell.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,110
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/1/2014 11:42:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 11:10:50 AM, Jayhawker_Soule wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:04:49 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Is disbelief in god immoral?

In my opinion, no.

If it is not immoral, then why are there consequences for disbelief?
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,110
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/1/2014 11:45:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 11:42:12 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:10:50 AM, Jayhawker_Soule wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:04:49 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Is disbelief in god immoral?

In my opinion, no.

If it is not immoral, then why are there *negative* consequences for disbelief?

*negative consequences*
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Jayhawker_Soule
Posts: 169
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/1/2014 11:46:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 11:42:12 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:10:50 AM, Jayhawker_Soule wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:04:49 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Is disbelief in god immoral?

In my opinion, no.

If it is not immoral, then why are there consequences for disbelief?

I do not understand the question.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,110
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/1/2014 11:55:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 11:46:59 AM, Jayhawker_Soule wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:42:12 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:10:50 AM, Jayhawker_Soule wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:04:49 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Is disbelief in god immoral?

In my opinion, no.

If it is not immoral, then why are there consequences for disbelief?

I do not understand the question.

Disbelief according to the Bible has *negative* consequences (hell/eternal suffering). I am not too familiar with Jewish beliefs of the afterlife, so this question may not apply to you.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Jayhawker_Soule
Posts: 169
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/1/2014 12:22:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 11:55:36 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:46:59 AM, Jayhawker_Soule wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:42:12 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:10:50 AM, Jayhawker_Soule wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:04:49 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Is disbelief in god immoral?

In my opinion, no.

If it is not immoral, then why are there consequences for disbelief?

I do not understand the question.

Disbelief according to the Bible has *negative* consequences (hell/eternal suffering). I am not too familiar with Jewish beliefs of the afterlife, so this question may not apply to you.

I often think that some anti-theists spend too much time and effort pummeling convenient caricatures.
Cassius
Posts: 142
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/1/2014 12:40:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 11:04:49 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Is disbelief in god immoral?

If we take disbelief as simply a negation, then no. There are people who have not heard of the faith. But if we take disbelief as opposition, then yes, insofar as God has revealed Himself, and certain men choose to ignore that revelation.
I used to be Nur-Ab-Sal.
Jayhawker_Soule
Posts: 169
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/1/2014 12:43:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 12:40:00 PM, Cassius wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:04:49 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Is disbelief in god immoral?

..., insofar as God has revealed Himself, and certain men choose to ignore that revelation.

Revelation is a statement of faith, not fact.
Cassius
Posts: 142
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/1/2014 12:46:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 12:43:40 PM, Jayhawker_Soule wrote:
At 12/1/2014 12:40:00 PM, Cassius wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:04:49 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Is disbelief in god immoral?

..., insofar as God has revealed Himself, and certain men choose to ignore that revelation.

Revelation is a statement of faith, not fact.

Sorry, what?
I used to be Nur-Ab-Sal.
Jayhawker_Soule
Posts: 169
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/1/2014 1:12:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 12:46:59 PM, Cassius wrote:
At 12/1/2014 12:43:40 PM, Jayhawker_Soule wrote:
At 12/1/2014 12:40:00 PM, Cassius wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:04:49 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Is disbelief in god immoral?

..., insofar as God has revealed Himself, and certain men choose to ignore that revelation.

Revelation is a statement of faith, not fact.

Sorry, what?
I was unclear.

The claim that God revealed himself through one or another religion is a faith-based claim rather than a statement of fact.
Cassius
Posts: 142
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/1/2014 1:23:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 1:12:00 PM, Jayhawker_Soule wrote:
At 12/1/2014 12:46:59 PM, Cassius wrote:
At 12/1/2014 12:43:40 PM, Jayhawker_Soule wrote:
At 12/1/2014 12:40:00 PM, Cassius wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:04:49 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Is disbelief in god immoral?

..., insofar as God has revealed Himself, and certain men choose to ignore that revelation.

Revelation is a statement of faith, not fact.

Sorry, what?
I was unclear.

The claim that God revealed himself through one or another religion is a faith-based claim rather than a statement of fact.

If God historically revealed Himself to the Israelites, then -- yeah, it is a factual claim. The ontology of the matter (that God performed X) is independent of the epistemology of the matter (I know that God performed X).
I used to be Nur-Ab-Sal.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,110
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/1/2014 1:28:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 12:22:19 PM, Jayhawker_Soule wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:55:36 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:46:59 AM, Jayhawker_Soule wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:42:12 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:10:50 AM, Jayhawker_Soule wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:04:49 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Is disbelief in god immoral?

In my opinion, no.

If it is not immoral, then why are there consequences for disbelief?

I do not understand the question.

Disbelief according to the Bible has *negative* consequences (hell/eternal suffering). I am not too familiar with Jewish beliefs of the afterlife, so this question may not apply to you.

I often think that some anti-theists spend too much time and effort pummeling convenient caricatures.

I am not an anti-theist, and I don't believe my question is unfair or that it misrepresents Christian beliefs in any way. I assume your are familiar with Biblical verses which state those not in the book of life (non believers and the unrighteous) will burn in the lake of fire. If disbelief is not immoral, then why would non believers suffer for exercising free will?
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,110
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/1/2014 1:38:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 12:40:00 PM, Cassius wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:04:49 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Is disbelief in god immoral?

If we take disbelief as simply a negation, then no. There are people who have not heard of the faith. But if we take disbelief as opposition, then yes, insofar as God has revealed Himself, and certain men choose to ignore that revelation.

If no revelation of god has occurred and an individual finds belief to be without reason, then such an individual questioning belief in god is committing an immoral act? That seems absurd. Correct me if I am missing something or have misrepresented your position.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Jayhawker_Soule
Posts: 169
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/1/2014 1:38:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 1:28:34 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 12/1/2014 12:22:19 PM, Jayhawker_Soule wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:55:36 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:46:59 AM, Jayhawker_Soule wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:42:12 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:10:50 AM, Jayhawker_Soule wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:04:49 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Is disbelief in god immoral?

In my opinion, no.

If it is not immoral, then why are there consequences for disbelief?

I do not understand the question.

Disbelief according to the Bible has *negative* consequences (hell/eternal suffering). I am not too familiar with Jewish beliefs of the afterlife, so this question may not apply to you.

I often think that some anti-theists spend too much time and effort pummeling convenient caricatures.

I am not an anti-theist, and I don't believe my question is unfair or that it misrepresents Christian beliefs in any way. I assume your are familiar with Biblical verses which state those not in the book of life (non believers and the unrighteous) will burn in the lake of fire. If disbelief is not immoral, then why would non believers suffer for exercising free will?

I believe that you are conflating two different (though related) things: what is written in the Christian Bible and what you seem to claim that all Christians believe. So, for example, I am Jewish and know many Christians who do not believe that I am destined for hell.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,110
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/1/2014 1:51:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 1:38:05 PM, Jayhawker_Soule wrote:
At 12/1/2014 1:28:34 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 12/1/2014 12:22:19 PM, Jayhawker_Soule wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:55:36 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:46:59 AM, Jayhawker_Soule wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:42:12 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:10:50 AM, Jayhawker_Soule wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:04:49 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Is disbelief in god immoral?

In my opinion, no.

If it is not immoral, then why are there consequences for disbelief?

I do not understand the question.

Disbelief according to the Bible has *negative* consequences (hell/eternal suffering). I am not too familiar with Jewish beliefs of the afterlife, so this question may not apply to you.

I often think that some anti-theists spend too much time and effort pummeling convenient caricatures.

I am not an anti-theist, and I don't believe my question is unfair or that it misrepresents Christian beliefs in any way. I assume your are familiar with Biblical verses which state those not in the book of life (non believers and the unrighteous) will burn in the lake of fire. If disbelief is not immoral, then why would non believers suffer for exercising free will?

I believe that you are conflating two different (though related) things: what is written in the Christian Bible and what you seem to claim that all Christians believe. So, for example, I am Jewish and know many Christians who do not believe that I am destined for hell.

Revelation 20:14-15

14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

The meaning of this passage seems fairly straight forward, and this is where my question stems from. I would never claim 'all' Christians agree on anything nor am I relying on Christian interpretation (although I am sure there is plenty of support for the passage as I understand it). Getting back to the topic, If disbelief is not immoral, then why are there negative consequences?
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Cassius
Posts: 142
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/1/2014 2:05:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 1:38:05 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 12/1/2014 12:40:00 PM, Cassius wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:04:49 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Is disbelief in god immoral?

If we take disbelief as simply a negation, then no. There are people who have not heard of the faith. But if we take disbelief as opposition, then yes, insofar as God has revealed Himself, and certain men choose to ignore that revelation.

If no revelation of god has occurred and an individual finds belief to be without reason, then such an individual questioning belief in god is committing an immoral act? That seems absurd. Correct me if I am missing something or have misrepresented your position.

If no revelation of God has occurred, then disbelief of such revelation aligns with the truth. Of course that's not immoral. What's immoral is ignoring the truth; religions claim that disbelief is immoral because they presuppose that such revelation has taken place.
I used to be Nur-Ab-Sal.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/1/2014 2:09:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
We are all immoral creatures. We are all sinners with a natural tendency to act selfishly, do wrong, and turn the other way from doing right. There is pleasure in sin for a season, and we are naturally prone to enjoy whatever kind of sin we feel like excusing ourselves to do at any given moment.

It's your sin that separates you from God, it's your sin that binds you in death, it's your sin that makes you immoral. The problem is you, not simply your unbelief. God loves you and He does not want you to die. Death is separtion from God, and it's eternal. Since He took your death, He fully paid for your immorality so that in His resurrection you can be forgiven if you will simply say "Yes God, it's me who deserves to die, I thank you for giving Jesus to die in my place and I thank you for raising Him from the dead. I'm receiving Him now as God my Saviour. Thank you for giving me His life, thank you for giving me eternal life".

If you won't believe God will give you eternal life, you won't get eternal life and all you will ever have is what you have now......separation from God in death, and in His displeasure with your refusal of His love in giving His Son to die in your place, He will leave you in death with no place for you outside of the fire of Hell, the lake of fire, which is the second death.

Unbelief is natural. It's our natural tendency to excuse our own sin and hope that God does not care what we did. It's rebellion against God. You can disbelieve God now, and you can refuse to believe Hell is real now, but if you don't get saved from it, you will find it is real.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,110
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/1/2014 2:23:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 2:05:53 PM, Cassius wrote:
At 12/1/2014 1:38:05 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 12/1/2014 12:40:00 PM, Cassius wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:04:49 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Is disbelief in god immoral?

If we take disbelief as simply a negation, then no. There are people who have not heard of the faith. But if we take disbelief as opposition, then yes, insofar as God has revealed Himself, and certain men choose to ignore that revelation.

If no revelation of god has occurred and an individual finds belief to be without reason, then such an individual questioning belief in god is committing an immoral act? That seems absurd. Correct me if I am missing something or have misrepresented your position.

If no revelation of God has occurred, then disbelief of such revelation aligns with the truth. Of course that's not immoral. What's immoral is ignoring the truth; religions claim that disbelief is immoral because they presuppose that such revelation has taken place.

I agree with your assessment.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
12_13
Posts: 1,362
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/1/2014 2:25:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 11:04:49 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Is disbelief in god immoral?

It depends on what are the reasons. In my opinion disbelief is not necessary immoral. Immoral is for example to be not truthful.

If anyone listens to my sayings, and doesn't believe, I don't judge him. For I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He who rejects me, and doesn't receive my sayings, has one who judges him. The word that I spoke, the same will judge him in the last day.
John 12:47-48
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,110
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/1/2014 2:37:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 2:09:40 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
We are all immoral creatures. We are all sinners with a natural tendency to act selfishly, do wrong, and turn the other way from doing right. There is pleasure in sin for a season, and we are naturally prone to enjoy whatever kind of sin we feel like excusing ourselves to do at any given moment.

It's your sin that separates you from God, it's your sin that binds you in death, it's your sin that makes you immoral. The problem is you, not simply your unbelief. God loves you and He does not want you to die. Death is separtion from God, and it's eternal. Since He took your death, He fully paid for your immorality so that in His resurrection you can be forgiven if you will simply say "Yes God, it's me who deserves to die, I thank you for giving Jesus to die in my place and I thank you for raising Him from the dead. I'm receiving Him now as God my Saviour. Thank you for giving me His life, thank you for giving me eternal life".

If you won't believe God will give you eternal life, you won't get eternal life and all you will ever have is what you have now......separation from God in death, and in His displeasure with your refusal of His love in giving His Son to die in your place, He will leave you in death with no place for you outside of the fire of Hell, the lake of fire, which is the second death.

Unbelief is natural. It's our natural tendency to excuse our own sin and hope that God does not care what we did. It's rebellion against God. You can disbelieve God now, and you can refuse to believe Hell is real now, but if you don't get saved from it, you will find it is real.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

Your view is incoherent. If your god has not revealed himself, then there should be no reasonable expectation to be judged by him. I have had no revelation, and accordingly any rules associated with (presumably) your revelation do not apply to me.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/1/2014 2:40:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 12:40:00 PM, Cassius wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:04:49 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Is disbelief in god immoral?

If we take disbelief as simply a negation, then no. There are people who have not heard of the faith. But if we take disbelief as opposition, then yes, insofar as God has revealed Himself, and certain men choose to ignore that revelation.

You were doing well until you made the statement that God has revealed himself.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,110
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/1/2014 2:41:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 2:25:10 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:04:49 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Is disbelief in god immoral?

It depends on what are the reasons. In my opinion disbelief is not necessary immoral. Immoral is for example to be not truthful.

If anyone listens to my sayings, and doesn't believe, I don't judge him. For I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He who rejects me, and doesn't receive my sayings, has one who judges him. The word that I spoke, the same will judge him in the last day.
John 12:47-48

"He who rejects me, and doesn't receive my sayings, has one who judges him. The word that I spoke, the same will judge him in the last day."

What do you think this part of the passage means?
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Cassius
Posts: 142
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/1/2014 2:51:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 2:40:57 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 12/1/2014 12:40:00 PM, Cassius wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:04:49 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Is disbelief in god immoral?

If we take disbelief as simply a negation, then no. There are people who have not heard of the faith. But if we take disbelief as opposition, then yes, insofar as God has revealed Himself, and certain men choose to ignore that revelation.

You were doing well until you made the statement that God has revealed himself.

I know, right? What a dumb thing to believe.
I used to be Nur-Ab-Sal.
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/1/2014 2:56:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 2:51:15 PM, Cassius wrote:
At 12/1/2014 2:40:57 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 12/1/2014 12:40:00 PM, Cassius wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:04:49 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Is disbelief in god immoral?

If we take disbelief as simply a negation, then no. There are people who have not heard of the faith. But if we take disbelief as opposition, then yes, insofar as God has revealed Himself, and certain men choose to ignore that revelation.

You were doing well until you made the statement that God has revealed himself.

I know, right? What a dumb thing to believe.

I've read your posts. I wouldn't call you dumb.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
Cassius
Posts: 142
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/1/2014 2:59:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 2:56:16 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 12/1/2014 2:51:15 PM, Cassius wrote:
At 12/1/2014 2:40:57 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 12/1/2014 12:40:00 PM, Cassius wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:04:49 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Is disbelief in god immoral?

If we take disbelief as simply a negation, then no. There are people who have not heard of the faith. But if we take disbelief as opposition, then yes, insofar as God has revealed Himself, and certain men choose to ignore that revelation.

You were doing well until you made the statement that God has revealed himself.

I know, right? What a dumb thing to believe.

I've read your posts. I wouldn't call you dumb.

Then perhaps it's not egregious to believe that God might show Himself to intellectual creatures who are destined to know Him in the first place.
I used to be Nur-Ab-Sal.
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/1/2014 3:09:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 2:59:26 PM, Cassius wrote:
At 12/1/2014 2:56:16 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 12/1/2014 2:51:15 PM, Cassius wrote:
At 12/1/2014 2:40:57 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 12/1/2014 12:40:00 PM, Cassius wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:04:49 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Is disbelief in god immoral?

If we take disbelief as simply a negation, then no. There are people who have not heard of the faith. But if we take disbelief as opposition, then yes, insofar as God has revealed Himself, and certain men choose to ignore that revelation.

You were doing well until you made the statement that God has revealed himself.

I know, right? What a dumb thing to believe.

I've read your posts. I wouldn't call you dumb.

Then perhaps it's not egregious to believe that God might show Himself to intellectual creatures who are destined to know Him in the first place.

If predestination could be a real concept when spoken in this context, then we might be "destined" to know him. However, God is a concept that is not based on natural reality. Therefore it is simply your opinion, yes?
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
Cassius
Posts: 142
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/1/2014 3:15:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 3:09:58 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 12/1/2014 2:59:26 PM, Cassius wrote:
At 12/1/2014 2:56:16 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 12/1/2014 2:51:15 PM, Cassius wrote:
At 12/1/2014 2:40:57 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 12/1/2014 12:40:00 PM, Cassius wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:04:49 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Is disbelief in god immoral?

If we take disbelief as simply a negation, then no. There are people who have not heard of the faith. But if we take disbelief as opposition, then yes, insofar as God has revealed Himself, and certain men choose to ignore that revelation.

You were doing well until you made the statement that God has revealed himself.

I know, right? What a dumb thing to believe.

I've read your posts. I wouldn't call you dumb.

Then perhaps it's not egregious to believe that God might show Himself to intellectual creatures who are destined to know Him in the first place.

If predestination could be a real concept when spoken in this context, then we might be "destined" to know him. However, God is a concept that is not based on natural reality. Therefore it is simply your opinion, yes?

As much as I love word association, no, I'm not espousing predestination or any other Christian salvific doctrine. I'm simply advancing the thesis that man is directed to knowledge of God by his intellective powers, because I believe God to be the most fundamental principle of existence. If you believe that God is not a concept based on "natural" "reality" (whatever that means), then it's doubtful you believe man's directive -- to grasp truth -- will lead him to God.
I used to be Nur-Ab-Sal.
Fly
Posts: 2,045
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/1/2014 3:22:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 12:22:19 PM, Jayhawker_Soule wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:55:36 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:46:59 AM, Jayhawker_Soule wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:42:12 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:10:50 AM, Jayhawker_Soule wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:04:49 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Is disbelief in god immoral?

In my opinion, no.

If it is not immoral, then why are there consequences for disbelief?

I do not understand the question.

Disbelief according to the Bible has *negative* consequences (hell/eternal suffering). I am not too familiar with Jewish beliefs of the afterlife, so this question may not apply to you.

I often think that some anti-theists spend too much time and effort pummeling convenient caricatures.

Apparently, you are not yet familiar with our resident "caricature." You will be, though. And he is decidedly inconvenient.

You also seem to be unfamiliar with the zeitgeist of the "Bible Belt."
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz