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"Scriptures Alone" is not biblical.

Dogknox
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12/1/2014 12:48:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Acts 17:11
Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

The Bereans accepted the TEACHING of the CHURCH!
Having only the "Old Testament Scriptures" they found TRUTH by "Listening to the Church" they decide on their own WITHOUT being told; Listen to Church TEACHING them; Paul' TEACHING.
The Bereans clearly are More Noble because they accept Paul's teaching without being told to Listen to him!

The Bereans "Old Testament Scriptures" do not have written "Listen to the church or be treated as a pagan"!

The Jews of Thessalonica refuse to listen to the Church teaching, they accept ONLY the scriptures; SCRIPTURES ALONE! Clearly they are "LESS Noble"!
BUT>> These Jews of Thessalonica have an excuse, when they stand in judgement, they will say; "We did not know we were suppose to listen to the church, we did not have 'Listen to the Church' in our scriptures!"

They are clearly Less Noble BUT>> us today...
We have; "Listen to the Church or be treated as pagan" in our New Testament scriptures, we have NO excuse for not listening to the Church!

All who reject the teaching authority of the church are clearly NOT NOBLE, having no excuse when standing in judgement, we will be judged by Jesus as being NOT NOBLE, for rejecting his words: "Listen to the Church or be treated as pagan"!

Yes, the Berean Jews checked the "Old Testament" scriptures (Acts 17:11 above) with what Church was TEACHING, so what?!

* Church was TEACHING; "Christ Resurrected" this TEACHING is not found in their Old Testament scriptures! They NEEDED Church to find TRUTH!

Proof....
These verses come just before verse #17 (above)
2 As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
3 explaining and proving that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead. "This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah,"


The Berean Jews were MORE NOBLE because they found TRUTH "Christ Resurrected " and accepted the TRUTH from the TEACHING of "The CHURCH"!
.........................It was the TEACHING of the CHURCH that saved them!................

By them selves no one can decide truth all people need an AUTHORITY to TEACH truth!
Dogknox
Posts: 5,087
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12/2/2014 9:19:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 12:48:45 PM, Dogknox wrote:
Acts 17:11
Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

The Bereans accepted the TEACHING of the CHURCH!
Having only the "Old Testament Scriptures" they found TRUTH by "Listening to the Church" they decide on their own WITHOUT being told; Listen to Church TEACHING them; Paul' TEACHING.
The Bereans clearly are More Noble because they accept Paul's teaching without being told to Listen to him!

The Bereans "Old Testament Scriptures" do not have written "Listen to the church or be treated as a pagan"!

The Jews of Thessalonica refuse to listen to the Church teaching, they accept ONLY the scriptures; SCRIPTURES ALONE! Clearly they are "LESS Noble"!
BUT>> These Jews of Thessalonica have an excuse, when they stand in judgement, they will say; "We did not know we were suppose to listen to the church, we did not have 'Listen to the Church' in our scriptures!"

They are clearly Less Noble BUT>> us today...
We have; "Listen to the Church or be treated as pagan" in our New Testament scriptures, we have NO excuse for not listening to the Church!

All who reject the teaching authority of the church are clearly NOT NOBLE, having no excuse when standing in judgement, we will be judged by Jesus as being NOT NOBLE, for rejecting his words: "Listen to the Church or be treated as pagan"!

Yes, the Berean Jews checked the "Old Testament" scriptures (Acts 17:11 above) with what Church was TEACHING, so what?!

* Church was TEACHING; "Christ Resurrected" this TEACHING is not found in their Old Testament scriptures! They NEEDED Church to find TRUTH!

Proof....
These verses come just before verse #17 (above)
2 As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
3 explaining and proving that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead. "This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah,"


The Berean Jews were MORE NOBLE because they found TRUTH "Christ Resurrected " and accepted the TRUTH from the TEACHING of "The CHURCH"!
.........................It was the TEACHING of the CHURCH that saved them!................

By them selves no one can decide truth all people need an AUTHORITY to TEACH truth!

I add....
No one can decide truth eg: "Scriptures ALONE are all a person needs" because it becomes "Me and what I want to believe is truth" all need an authority to keep us directed towards truth!
Dogknox
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12/5/2014 3:33:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 12:48:45 PM, Dogknox wrote:
Acts 17:11
Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

The Bereans accepted the TEACHING of the CHURCH!
Having only the "Old Testament Scriptures" they found TRUTH by "Listening to the Church" they decide on their own WITHOUT being told; Listen to Church TEACHING them; Paul' TEACHING.
The Bereans clearly are More Noble because they accept Paul's teaching without being told to Listen to him!

The Bereans "Old Testament Scriptures" do not have written "Listen to the church or be treated as a pagan"!

The Jews of Thessalonica refuse to listen to the Church teaching, they accept ONLY the scriptures; SCRIPTURES ALONE! Clearly they are "LESS Noble"!
BUT>> These Jews of Thessalonica have an excuse, when they stand in judgement, they will say; "We did not know we were suppose to listen to the church, we did not have 'Listen to the Church' in our scriptures!"

They are clearly Less Noble BUT>> us today...
We have; "Listen to the Church or be treated as pagan" in our New Testament scriptures, we have NO excuse for not listening to the Church!

All who reject the teaching authority of the church are clearly NOT NOBLE, having no excuse when standing in judgement, we will be judged by Jesus as being NOT NOBLE, for rejecting his words: "Listen to the Church or be treated as pagan"!

Yes, the Berean Jews checked the "Old Testament" scriptures (Acts 17:11 above) with what Church was TEACHING, so what?!

* Church was TEACHING; "Christ Resurrected" this TEACHING is not found in their Old Testament scriptures! They NEEDED Church to find TRUTH!

Proof....
These verses come just before verse #17 (above)
2 As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
3 explaining and proving that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead. "This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah,"


The Berean Jews were MORE NOBLE because they found TRUTH "Christ Resurrected " and accepted the TRUTH from the TEACHING of "The CHURCH"!
.........................It was the TEACHING of the CHURCH that saved them!................

By them selves no one can decide truth all people need an AUTHORITY to TEACH truth!

I add....
The TRADITION of Scriptures Alone makes each person an "Authority" to decide what is truth!
Thus the formation of the many thousands of man made churches, all claiming to have the "ONLY Truth" but no two are the same!

There is NO scriptures that can be found that say; "Scriptures are the ONLY authority"!
Fact is, the scriptures proclaim "The One Church Jesus established is the ONLY Authority!"
ethang5
Posts: 4,117
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12/8/2014 7:06:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 12:48:45 PM, Dogknox wrote:

Acts 17:11
Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

The Bereans accepted the TEACHING of the CHURCH!

Untrue. You have inserted the "teachings f the Church" in an attempt to put your slant into the scriptures. No such implication is in the text.

Having only the "Old Testament Scriptures" they found TRUTH by "Listening to the Church" they decide on their own WITHOUT being told; Listen to Church TEACHING them; Paul' TEACHING.

The book of Acts and other epistles tell us what was preached by Peter and Paul. They used the OT to expound and verify what they thought. Every teaching of Peter and Paul can be found in the words of Jesus and in the OT. They thought nothing new, nothing not laid out by Jesus.

The passage in acts said that But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar,.....

Later, it is these "lewd fellows of the baser sort" which are being compared to the more noble Berean Jews. Nowhere in the text do we find it said or implied that they were called "more noble" because they observed church teaching.

The Bereans clearly are More Noble because they accept Paul's teaching without being told to Listen to him!

The scripture does not say so. They were more noble because they weren't "lewd fellows of the baser sort".

The Jews of Thessalonica refuse to listen to the Church teaching, they accept ONLY the scriptures; SCRIPTURES ALONE! Clearly they are "LESS Noble"!

Wow. If your point was correct you wouldn't have to so contort the scriptures. The The Jews of Thessalonica refused to listen to anyone. That is why they are referred to a lewd and base.

They are clearly Less Noble BUT>> us today...
We have; "Listen to the Church or be treated as pagan" in our New Testament scriptures, we have NO excuse for not listening to the Church!

All who reject the teaching authority of the church are clearly NOT NOBLE, having no excuse when standing in judgement, we will be judged by Jesus as being NOT NOBLE, for rejecting his words: "Listen to the Church or be treated as pagan"!

Yes, the Berean Jews checked the "Old Testament" scriptures (Acts 17:11 above) with what Church was TEACHING, so what?!

It means that had Paul's teaching been anything different than what scripture said, it would have been rejected out of hand. Your point fails.

* Church was TEACHING; "Christ Resurrected" this TEACHING is not found in their Old Testament scriptures! They NEEDED Church to find TRUTH!

Actually it is found in the OT, but that is a moot point because by the time of Acts, Peter and Paul had the actual words of Christ, which is scripture. They only needed Jesus.

Proof....
These verses come just before verse #17 (above)
2 As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,

If he reasoned with them FROM OT scriptures that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead, how can you say the TEACHING is not found in their Old Testament scriptures? It had to be there in order for him to reason with them about it from OT scriptures!

3 explaining and proving that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead. "This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah,"

The Berean Jews were MORE NOBLE because they found TRUTH "Christ Resurrected " and accepted the TRUTH from the TEACHING of "The CHURCH"!
.........................It was the TEACHING of the CHURCH that saved them!.......

No, it was the teaching of Christ that saved them. Scripture. We've seen "the church" go wrong so many times with "church traditions". Mary ascended to Heaven? Called Mother of God? Mary worshiped? Allowing homosexuals to be priests?

Charging people to go to Heaven, burning people who didn't believe, money scandals at the Vatican, pedophile priests, church slave labor. Rich Popes and poor congregations. How anyone can still think that organization is in any way related to God is beyond me.

By them selves no one can decide truth all people need an AUTHORITY to TEACH truth!

That authority is the Holy Spirit. Not the traditions of men.

Mar 7:7 - Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Mar 7:8 - For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

Mar 7:9 - And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

The majority of charges laid at the feet of Christians today by atheists are crimes started and perpetuated by, "the church". I doubt if there has been a more successful enemy of Christ than "the church".
Dogknox
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12/8/2014 9:45:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/8/2014 7:06:18 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 12/1/2014 12:48:45 PM, Dogknox wrote:


The Bereans accepted the TEACHING of the CHURCH!

Untrue. You have inserted the "teachings f the Church" in an attempt to put your slant into the scriptures. No such implication is in the text.

Having only the "Old Testament Scriptures" they found TRUTH by "Listening to the Church" they decide on their own WITHOUT being told; Listen to Church TEACHING them; Paul' TEACHING.

The book of Acts and other epistles tell us what was preached by Peter and Paul. They used the OT to expound and verify what they thought. Every teaching of Peter and Paul can be found in the words of Jesus and in the OT. They thought nothing new, nothing not laid out by Jesus.

The passage in acts said that But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar,.....

Later, it is these "lewd fellows of the baser sort" which are being compared to the more noble Berean Jews. Nowhere in the text do we find it said or implied that they were called "more noble" because they observed church teaching.

The Bereans clearly are More Noble because they accept Paul's teaching without being told to Listen to him!

The scripture does not say so. They were more noble because they weren't "lewd fellows of the baser sort".

The Jews of Thessalonica refuse to listen to the Church teaching, they accept ONLY the scriptures; SCRIPTURES ALONE! Clearly they are "LESS Noble"!

Wow. If your point was correct you wouldn't have to so contort the scriptures. The The Jews of Thessalonica refused to listen to anyone. That is why they are referred to a lewd and base.
All who reject the teaching authority of the church are clearly NOT NOBLE, having no excuse when standing in judgement, we will be judged by Jesus as being NOT NOBLE, for rejecting his words: "Listen to the Church or be treated as pagan"!

Yes, the Berean Jews checked the "Old Testament" scriptures (Acts 17:11 above) with what Church was TEACHING, so what?!

It means that had Paul's teaching been anything different than what scripture said, it would have been rejected out of hand. Your point fails.

* Church was TEACHING; "Christ Resurrected" this TEACHING is not found in their Old Testament scriptures! They NEEDED Church to find TRUTH!

Actually it is found in the OT, but that is a moot point because by the time of Acts, Peter and Paul had the actual words of Christ, which is scripture. They only needed Jesus.

Proof....
These verses come just before verse #17 (above)
2 As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,

If he reasoned with them FROM OT scriptures that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead, how can you say the TEACHING is not found in their Old Testament scriptures? It had to be there in order for him to reason with them about it from OT scriptures!

3 explaining and proving that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead. "This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah,"

The Berean Jews were MORE NOBLE because they found TRUTH "Christ Resurrected " and accepted the TRUTH from the TEACHING of "The CHURCH"!
.........................It was the TEACHING of the CHURCH that saved them!.......

No, it was the teaching of Christ that saved them. Scripture. We've seen "the church" go wrong so many times with "church traditions". Mary ascended to Heaven? Called Mother of God? Mary worshiped? Allowing homosexuals to be priests?

Charging people to go to Heaven, burning people who didn't believe, money scandals at the Vatican, pedophile priests, church slave labor. Rich Popes and poor congregations. How anyone can still think that organization is in any way related to God is beyond me.

By them selves no one can decide truth all people need an AUTHORITY to TEACH truth!

That authority is the Holy Spirit. Not the traditions of men.

Mar 7:7 - Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Mar 7:8 - For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

Mar 7:9 - And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

The majority of charges laid at the feet of Christians today by atheists are crimes started and perpetuated by, "the church". I doubt if there has been a more successful enemy of Christ than "the church".
ethang5 Good to meet you..
You said..
Untrue. You have inserted the "teachings f the Church" in an attempt to put your slant into the scriptures. No such implication is in the text.

I reply: Clearly, You are wrong.. Paul was TEACHING! He was NOT reading.. Paul is an APOSTLE a leader of the CHURCH!

You said.. They used the OT to expound and verify what they thought. Every teaching of Peter and Paul can be found in the words of Jesus and in the OT. They thought nothing new, nothing not laid out by Jesus.

I reply: Again you are clearly WRONG. Paul was teaching "Christ RESURRECTED" we both know "Christ Resurrected" is not found in the OT! They NEEDED a TEACHER to find TRUTH! Look this comes before Acts 11...
2 As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
3 explaining and proving that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead. "This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah," he said.
4 Some of the Jews were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did....


ethang5 Do you see it??? Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead.

They would NEVER arrive at TRUTH with out a TEACHER! PROOF????
The proof is clear.... Think the Jews today do not have the New Testament ALL..
All they have is the OT today 2000 years of reading ONLY the OT they have not found "Christ Resurrected"!
They (The Bereans) ACCEPTED Paul's TEACHING and found TRUTH!
Those in Thessalonica rejected Paul's teaching and did not find truth.. Clearly it is those that ACCEPT church that are the "More Noble"! The only difference between the two groups is the "Accepting or Rejecting of CHURCH"!

Your ACCUSATIONS are false...No, it was the teaching of Christ that saved them. Scripture. We've seen "the church" go wrong so many times with "church traditions". Mary ascended to Heaven? Called Mother of God? Mary worshiped? Allowing homosexuals to be priests?

You resort to "Insult and Accusation because you do not have scripture to back up your belief in "Scriptures ALONE are the authority!"

ethang5 LOOK Scripture.. 1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God"s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth
ethang5
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12/8/2014 11:30:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/8/2014 9:45:19 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 12/8/2014 7:06:18 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 12/1/2014 12:48:45 PM, Dogknox wrote:

That authority is the Holy Spirit. Not the traditions of men.

Mar 7:7 - Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Mar 7:8 - For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

Mar 7:9 - And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

The majority of charges laid at the feet of Christians today by atheists are crimes started and perpetuated by, "the church". I doubt if there has been a more successful enemy of Christ than "the church".

ethang5 Good to meet you..
You said..
Untrue. You have inserted the "teachings f the Church" in an attempt to put your slant into the scriptures. No such implication is in the text.

I reply: Clearly, You are wrong.. Paul was TEACHING! He was NOT reading.. Paul is an APOSTLE a leader of the CHURCH!

He was teaching Christ from scripture. He said so, and the verses you provided said so. I'll stick with the Bibles interpretation thank you.

You said.. They used the OT to expound and verify what they thought. Every teaching of Peter and Paul can be found in the words of Jesus and in the OT. They thought nothing new, nothing not laid out by Jesus.

I reply: Again you are clearly WRONG. Paul was teaching "Christ RESURRECTED" we both know "Christ Resurrected" is not found in the OT! They NEEDED a TEACHER to find TRUTH!

Jesus told us that when the Holy Spirit would come, HE would lead us to ALL truth. If Paul reasoned with them FROM OT scriptures that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead, how can you say the TEACHING is not found in their Old Testament scriptures? It had to be there in order for him to reason with them about it from OT scriptures!

Look this comes before Acts 11...
2 As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
3 explaining and proving that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead. "This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah," he said.
4 Some of the Jews were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did....


ethang5 Do you see it??? Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead.

They would NEVER arrive at TRUTH with out a TEACHER! PROOF????

Paul didn't speak to every Christian in the world, and yet many arrived at that truth. Your opinion is not fact.

The proof is clear.... Think the Jews today do not have the New Testament ALL..
All they have is the OT today 2000 years of reading ONLY the OT they have not found "Christ Resurrected"!

I know Jews who are NT scholars and remain Jews. You aren't making logical sense.

They (The Bereans) ACCEPTED Paul's TEACHING and found TRUTH!
Those in Thessalonica rejected Paul's teaching and did not find truth.. Clearly it is those that ACCEPT church that are the "More Noble"! The only difference between the two groups is the "Accepting or Rejecting of CHURCH"!

But that isn't what the passage says. The passages affirms scripture. It says nothing about Church. All revelation came with and through Christ.

No, it was the teaching of Christ that saved them. Scripture. We've seen "the church" go wrong so many times with "church traditions". Mary ascended to Heaven? Called Mother of God? Mary worshiped? Allowing homosexuals to be priests?

You resort to "Insult and Accusation because you do not have scripture to back up your belief in "Scriptures ALONE are the authority!"

I did not insult you. Plus, my accusations may be unpleasant for you but they are true. Actually, you remind me of MCB who when confronted with the proof that the Watchtower society is a fraud, will just brush it away and continue believing the rubbish they sell. I haven't a clue why you are so desperate to believe that "the church" is on par with scripture.

Had the church stayed just with scripture, there would be no pedophile priests, or crusades, or inquisition, or trial of Galileo, or worship of Mary, or any multitude of silly things atheists now use to keep young people away from Christ and His wondrous love.

ethang5 LOOK Scripture.. 1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God"s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth

The Church here refers to the individual Christians, and they are the pillar because they carry and hold as sacred, scripture, which is the power of God.

Do you really believe those old men, for years living in luxury and protecting pedophiles, are Christian? Do you really believe they walk in the light of Christ??

If Jesus were here today, He would talk to them exactly how He spoke to the Pharisees of His day. He would condemn them.
Dogknox
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12/8/2014 8:08:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/8/2014 11:30:09 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 12/8/2014 9:45:19 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 12/8/2014 7:06:18 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 12/1/2014 12:48:45 PM, Dogknox wrote:

That authority is the Holy Spirit. Not the traditions of men.
Mar 7:9 - And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

The majority of charges laid at the feet of Christians today by atheists are crimes started and perpetuated by, "the church". I doubt if there has been a more successful enemy of Christ than "the church".

ethang5 Good to meet you..
You said..
Untrue. You have inserted the "teachings f the Church" in an attempt to put your slant into the scriptures. No such implication is in the text.

I reply: Clearly, You are wrong.. Paul was TEACHING! He was NOT reading.. Paul is an APOSTLE a leader of the CHURCH!

He was teaching Christ from scripture. He said so, and the verses you provided said so. I'll stick with the Bibles interpretation thank you.

You said.. They used the OT to expound and verify what they thought. Every teaching of Peter and Paul can be found in the words of Jesus and in the OT. They thought nothing new, nothing not laid out by Jesus.

I reply: Again you are clearly WRONG. Paul was teaching "Christ RESURRECTED" we both know "Christ Resurrected" is not found in the OT! They NEEDED a TEACHER to find TRUTH!

Jesus told us that when the Holy Spirit would come, HE would lead us to ALL truth. If Paul reasoned with them FROM OT scriptures that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead, how can you say the TEACHING is not found in their Old Testament scriptures? It had to be there in order for him to reason with them about it from OT scriptures!

Paul didn't speak to every Christian in the world, and yet many arrived at that truth. Your opinion is not fact.

The proof is clear.... Think the Jews today do not have the New Testament ALL..
All they have is the OT today 2000 years of reading ONLY the OT they have not found "Christ Resurrected"!

I know Jews who are NT scholars and remain Jews. You aren't making logical sense.

They (The Bereans) ACCEPTED Paul's TEACHING and found TRUTH!
Those in Thessalonica rejected Paul's teaching and did not find truth.. Clearly it is those that ACCEPT church that are the "More Noble"! The only difference between the two groups is the "Accepting or Rejecting of CHURCH"!

But that isn't what the passage says. The passages affirms scripture. It says nothing about Church. All revelation came with and through Christ.

No, it was the teaching of Christ that saved them. Scripture. We've seen "the church" go wrong so many times with "church traditions". Mary ascended to Heaven? Called Mother of God? Mary worshiped? Allowing homosexuals to be priests?

You resort to "Insult and Accusation because you do not have scripture to back up your belief in "Scriptures ALONE are the authority!"

I did not insult you. Plus, my accusations may be unpleasant for you but they are true. Actually, you remind me of MCB who when confronted with the proof that the Watchtower society is a fraud, will just brush it away and continue believing the rubbish they sell. I haven't a clue why you are so desperate to believe that "the church" is on par with scripture.

Had the church stayed just with scripture, there would be no pedophile priests, or crusades, or inquisition, or trial of Galileo, or worship of Mary, or any multitude of silly things atheists now use to keep young people away from Christ and His wondrous love.

ethang5 LOOK Scripture.. 1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God"s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth

The Church here refers to the individual Christians, and they are the pillar because they carry and hold as sacred, scripture, which is the power of God.

Do you really believe those old men, for years living in luxury and protecting pedophiles, are Christian? Do you really believe they walk in the light of Christ??

If Jesus were here today, He would talk to them exactly how He spoke to the Pharisees of His day. He would condemn them.

Hello again...
You said.. He was teaching Christ from scripture. He said so, and the verses you provided said so. I'll stick with the Bibles interpretation thank you.

I reply: Paul was TEACHING.. Church was TEACHING!!!!
The Bereans believed Paul's TEACHING!!!!!
The Bereans found the truth because Church was TEACHING!!! They would never ever have found the truth without the Church TEACHING!!!!
They accepted Paul's TEACHING thus they are the more noble!
The difference is.. Those from Thessalonica rejected the TEACHING they only accepted the scriptures thus they are the less noble!

Paul does NOT teach the doctrines and commands of men.. He teaches the TRUTH!! The doctrines and commands of God!!!
ethang5 LOOK.. Timothy is a BISHOP! He TEACHES!!! His TEACHING saves men!!
1 Timothy 4:16
Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

Do you see it?? you will save both yourself and your hearers

You said.. The majority of charges laid at the feet of Christians today by atheists are crimes started and perpetuated by, "the church". I doubt if there has been a more successful enemy of Christ than "the church".

I reply: Yes Man made churches are rejecting Jesus, they teach: "Reject church, all man needs is the scriptures and faith ALONE!" NOT..
Not the one Church Jesus established!
Not the Church of the early fathers!
Not the Church of Paul or Peter!

You said.. Jesus told us that when the Holy Spirit would come, HE would lead us to ALL truth. If Paul reasoned with them FROM OT scriptures that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead, how can you say the TEACHING is not found in their Old Testament scriptures? It had to be there in order for him to reason with them about it from OT scriptures!

I reply: (Again) The Jews have ONLY the OT.. they do not believe in Jesus!! The Jews cannot find the truth from their OT they need a TEACHER!!! Proving the Bereans found the truth by listening to the CHURCH TEACHING TRUTH!

You said.. Paul didn't speak to every Christian in the world, and yet many arrived at that truth. Your opinion is not fact.

I answer... All who listened to Paul found truth!
The Church TEACHES Paul is not the only teacher in the Church Jesus established!
All who listen to the church are NOT pagans!
ethang5 "PAGANS" are outside of the Church "Jesus' body!" Pagans do not listen to CHURCH!!

Matthew 18:17
If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

DO YOU SEE IT?? if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan
ethang5
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12/9/2014 5:56:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/8/2014 8:08:46 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 12/8/2014 11:30:09 AM, ethang5 wrote:

DO YOU SEE IT?? if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan

The only thing I see is your blind adherence to the doctrine of men rather than the words of God. Of course I knew, just like when MCB is asked about the lies of the Jehovah Witnesses, he has no response, you can't address the failings of "the church" either.

Go and let old men living extravagantly off the tithes of poor old ladies tell you how you should live your spiritual life. Ignore the multiple times in history, and up to today, they have violated God's commandments. Worship Mary.

I will stay focused on God's word, you can let non-christian men in robes lead you.

Stay cool.
Dogknox
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12/9/2014 10:45:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/9/2014 5:56:47 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 12/8/2014 8:08:46 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 12/8/2014 11:30:09 AM, ethang5 wrote:

DO YOU SEE IT?? if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan

The only thing I see is your blind adherence to the doctrine of men rather than the words of God. Of course I knew, just like when MCB is asked about the lies of the Jehovah Witnesses, he has no response, you can't address the failings of "the church" either.

Go and let old men living extravagantly off the tithes of poor old ladies tell you how you should live your spiritual life. Ignore the multiple times in history, and up to today, they have violated God's commandments. Worship Mary.

I will stay focused on God's word, you can let non-christian men in robes lead you.

Stay cool.

ethang5 You will stay focused on God's word???????!!!

God' word... "Listen to the CHURCH!"
God' word... "The CHURCH is the Pillar and the foundation of truth!"
God' word... "The Body of Jesus is the CHURCH"!
God' word... To the CHURCH.."Go into all the world TEACHING"!
God' word... To the CHURCH.. "I am with you ALWAYS to the end of the world"!
God' word... "I love the CHURCH, I died for the CHURCH"!
God' word.. "The CHURCH is HOLY!"
God' word.. "The CHURCH is BLAMELESS"!
God' word.. "The CHURCH is without stain"!
God' word.. To the CHURCH.. "Teaching men saves men"!
God' word.. "The gates of hell will not prevail against the CHURCH"!

ethang5 QUESTION.... Post me the scriptures "God' Word" that says; "The scriptures are the ONLY AUTHORITY"!
You will stay focused on God's word????

Show me God' word!!! Until then all I see is a person focused on a MAN MADE TRADITION started by protesters fifteen hundred years AFTER Jesus established his TEACHING AUTHORITATIVE church! The De-formers rejected "God' word" to establish their TRADITION of "Don't need church to be saved!"

THINK... Man think!!!!!!!!!! .... There was NO scriptures (of any quantity) before the printing press. The bible was a costly work of art, it was the CHURCH that taught Jesus, the CHURCH brought Jesus ans salvation to the world for the first seventeen hundred years! MOST..
Most people could not read!!!

The idea of "All man needs is the scriptures" is not historical or logical.. This teaching sends many souls to Satan.. Surly Satan has had his hand in the making of this TRADITION started by the de-formers!
Dogknox
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12/9/2014 5:07:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/9/2014 5:56:47 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 12/8/2014 8:08:46 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 12/8/2014 11:30:09 AM, ethang5 wrote:

DO YOU SEE IT?? if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan

The only thing I see is your blind adherence to the doctrine of men rather than the words of God. Of course I knew, just like when MCB is asked about the lies of the Jehovah Witnesses, he has no response, you can't address the failings of "the church" either.

Go and let old men living extravagantly off the tithes of poor old ladies tell you how you should live your spiritual life. Ignore the multiple times in history, and up to today, they have violated God's commandments. Worship Mary.

I will stay focused on God's word, you can let non-christian men in robes lead you.

Stay cool.

bump post #9
Envisage
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12/9/2014 5:57:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 12:48:45 PM, Dogknox wrote:
Acts 17:11
Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

The Bereans accepted the TEACHING of the CHURCH!
Having only the "Old Testament Scriptures" they found TRUTH by "Listening to the Church" they decide on their own WITHOUT being told; Listen to Church TEACHING them; Paul' TEACHING.
The Bereans clearly are More Noble because they accept Paul's teaching without being told to Listen to him!

The Bereans "Old Testament Scriptures" do not have written "Listen to the church or be treated as a pagan"!

The Jews of Thessalonica refuse to listen to the Church teaching, they accept ONLY the scriptures; SCRIPTURES ALONE! Clearly they are "LESS Noble"!
BUT>> These Jews of Thessalonica have an excuse, when they stand in judgement, they will say; "We did not know we were suppose to listen to the church, we did not have 'Listen to the Church' in our scriptures!"

They are clearly Less Noble BUT>> us today...
We have; "Listen to the Church or be treated as pagan" in our New Testament scriptures, we have NO excuse for not listening to the Church!

All who reject the teaching authority of the church are clearly NOT NOBLE, having no excuse when standing in judgement, we will be judged by Jesus as being NOT NOBLE, for rejecting his words: "Listen to the Church or be treated as pagan"!

Yes, the Berean Jews checked the "Old Testament" scriptures (Acts 17:11 above) with what Church was TEACHING, so what?!

* Church was TEACHING; "Christ Resurrected" this TEACHING is not found in their Old Testament scriptures! They NEEDED Church to find TRUTH!

Proof....
These verses come just before verse #17 (above)
2 As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
3 explaining and proving that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead. "This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah,"


The Berean Jews were MORE NOBLE because they found TRUTH "Christ Resurrected " and accepted the TRUTH from the TEACHING of "The CHURCH"!
.........................It was the TEACHING of the CHURCH that saved them!................

By them selves no one can decide truth all people need an AUTHORITY to TEACH truth!

A minor note. "Scripture" just meant "writings" or "letters" during the time the epistles were written, the meaning is very different to how the word "scripture" is used now.
Dogknox
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12/10/2014 10:26:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/9/2014 5:57:15 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 12/1/2014 12:48:45 PM, Dogknox wrote:
Acts 17:11
Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

The Bereans accepted the TEACHING of the CHURCH!
Having only the "Old Testament Scriptures" they found TRUTH by "Listening to the Church" they decide on their own WITHOUT being told; Listen to Church TEACHING them; Paul' TEACHING.
The Bereans clearly are More Noble because they accept Paul's teaching without being told to Listen to him!

The Bereans "Old Testament Scriptures" do not have written "Listen to the church or be treated as a pagan"!

The Jews of Thessalonica refuse to listen to the Church teaching, they accept ONLY the scriptures; SCRIPTURES ALONE! Clearly they are "LESS Noble"!
BUT>> These Jews of Thessalonica have an excuse, when they stand in judgement, they will say; "We did not know we were suppose to listen to the church, we did not have 'Listen to the Church' in our scriptures!"

They are clearly Less Noble BUT>> us today...
We have; "Listen to the Church or be treated as pagan" in our New Testament scriptures, we have NO excuse for not listening to the Church!

All who reject the teaching authority of the church are clearly NOT NOBLE, having no excuse when standing in judgement, we will be judged by Jesus as being NOT NOBLE, for rejecting his words: "Listen to the Church or be treated as pagan"!

Yes, the Berean Jews checked the "Old Testament" scriptures (Acts 17:11 above) with what Church was TEACHING, so what?!

* Church was TEACHING; "Christ Resurrected" this TEACHING is not found in their Old Testament scriptures! They NEEDED Church to find TRUTH!

Proof....
These verses come just before verse #17 (above)
2 As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
3 explaining and proving that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead. "This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah,"


The Berean Jews were MORE NOBLE because they found TRUTH "Christ Resurrected " and accepted the TRUTH from the TEACHING of "The CHURCH"!
.........................It was the TEACHING of the CHURCH that saved them!................

By them selves no one can decide truth all people need an AUTHORITY to TEACH truth!

A minor note. "Scripture" just meant "writings" or "letters" during the time the epistles were written, the meaning is very different to how the word "scripture" is used now.

Hello Envisage I hope all is well..

I reply: I do not want to offend you... I think I have!
My point is very direct...... My point is: The idea of, "We do not need the Church Jesus established or her sacraments for salvation, all we need is the scriptures and faith ALONE" is a TEACHING of man, it is a man made TRADITION started by the "De-Former's"!

Faith ALONE and Scriptures ALONE was never heard of or thought of until the "De-Formation" seventeen hundred years AFTER Jesus established his AUTHORITATIVE TEACHING Church! There is NO place found in the scriptures that support these two man made TRADITIONS!

LOOK: The Great Commission
18.... "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."


1) Verse 18 Jesus (God' AUTHORITY) is given to the CHURCH by Jesus!
2) Verse 19 Jesus commissions his CHURCH to make disciples by BAPTIZING all nations! By all the AUTHORITY of God.. Speaking for God.. Speaking for God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit with all of their AUTHORITY make DISCIPLES by BAPTIZING!
3) Verse 20 Tells you the AUTHORITY of God extends to TEACHING all nations; Teaching all NATIONS ALL that Jesus commanded!
4) Verse 20 ends with a vow from God... He will never ever leave his Church to the end of time he is ALWAYS with his Church!

Envisage you are forced to call Jesus a liar, you deny "Baptism makes Disciples", you deny the AUTHORITY Jesus gave his church! You deny the Church Jesus established can TEACH all nations! You deny Jesus is always with his One Holy Church FOREVER! You are forced to believe Jesus was somehow overpowered by Satan and Satan TOOK Jesus' body, Jesus' BRIDE from Jesus! You THINK you MUST somehow come to the rescue for God and restore Jesus' body back for him!!

FACT IS: Scriptures tell you Jesus is ALWAYS with his Church his body does not need to be restored! FACT IS: The idea of "Scriptures are all you need is a LIE started by the Deformer's that rejected the Great Commission to teach their lie to you! They had to REJECT the scriptures to teach the scriptures are the ONLY TRUTH!
Envisage
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12/10/2014 10:31:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/10/2014 10:26:32 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 12/9/2014 5:57:15 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 12/1/2014 12:48:45 PM, Dogknox wrote:
Acts 17:11
Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

The Bereans accepted the TEACHING of the CHURCH!
Having only the "Old Testament Scriptures" they found TRUTH by "Listening to the Church" they decide on their own WITHOUT being told; Listen to Church TEACHING them; Paul' TEACHING.
The Bereans clearly are More Noble because they accept Paul's teaching without being told to Listen to him!

The Bereans "Old Testament Scriptures" do not have written "Listen to the church or be treated as a pagan"!

The Jews of Thessalonica refuse to listen to the Church teaching, they accept ONLY the scriptures; SCRIPTURES ALONE! Clearly they are "LESS Noble"!
BUT>> These Jews of Thessalonica have an excuse, when they stand in judgement, they will say; "We did not know we were suppose to listen to the church, we did not have 'Listen to the Church' in our scriptures!"

They are clearly Less Noble BUT>> us today...
We have; "Listen to the Church or be treated as pagan" in our New Testament scriptures, we have NO excuse for not listening to the Church!

All who reject the teaching authority of the church are clearly NOT NOBLE, having no excuse when standing in judgement, we will be judged by Jesus as being NOT NOBLE, for rejecting his words: "Listen to the Church or be treated as pagan"!

Yes, the Berean Jews checked the "Old Testament" scriptures (Acts 17:11 above) with what Church was TEACHING, so what?!

* Church was TEACHING; "Christ Resurrected" this TEACHING is not found in their Old Testament scriptures! They NEEDED Church to find TRUTH!

Proof....
These verses come just before verse #17 (above)
2 As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
3 explaining and proving that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead. "This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah,"


The Berean Jews were MORE NOBLE because they found TRUTH "Christ Resurrected " and accepted the TRUTH from the TEACHING of "The CHURCH"!
.........................It was the TEACHING of the CHURCH that saved them!................

By them selves no one can decide truth all people need an AUTHORITY to TEACH truth!

A minor note. "Scripture" just meant "writings" or "letters" during the time the epistles were written, the meaning is very different to how the word "scripture" is used now.

Hello Envisage I hope all is well..

I reply: I do not want to offend you... I think I have!
My point is very direct...... My point is: The idea of, "We do not need the Church Jesus established or her sacraments for salvation, all we need is the scriptures and faith ALONE" is a TEACHING of man, it is a man made TRADITION started by the "De-Former's"!

Faith ALONE and Scriptures ALONE was never heard of or thought of until the "De-Formation" seventeen hundred years AFTER Jesus established his AUTHORITATIVE TEACHING Church! There is NO place found in the scriptures that support these two man made TRADITIONS!

LOOK: The Great Commission
18.... "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."


1) Verse 18 Jesus (God' AUTHORITY) is given to the CHURCH by Jesus!
2) Verse 19 Jesus commissions his CHURCH to make disciples by BAPTIZING all nations! By all the AUTHORITY of God.. Speaking for God.. Speaking for God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit with all of their AUTHORITY make DISCIPLES by BAPTIZING!
3) Verse 20 Tells you the AUTHORITY of God extends to TEACHING all nations; Teaching all NATIONS ALL that Jesus commanded!
4) Verse 20 ends with a vow from God... He will never ever leave his Church to the end of time he is ALWAYS with his Church!

Envisage you are forced to call Jesus a liar, you deny "Baptism makes Disciples", you deny the AUTHORITY Jesus gave his church! You deny the Church Jesus established can TEACH all nations! You deny Jesus is always with his One Holy Church FOREVER! You are forced to believe Jesus was somehow overpowered by Satan and Satan TOOK Jesus' body, Jesus' BRIDE from Jesus! You THINK you MUST somehow come to the rescue for God and restore Jesus' body back for him!!

FACT IS: Scriptures tell you Jesus is ALWAYS with his Church his body does not need to be restored! FACT IS: The idea of "Scriptures are all you need is a LIE started by the Deformer's that rejected the Great Commission to teach their lie to you! They had to REJECT the scriptures to teach the scriptures are the ONLY TRUTH!

You successfully wrote a sermon that ignores my point. Well done.
ethang5
Posts: 4,117
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12/10/2014 10:32:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/9/2014 10:45:37 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 12/9/2014 5:56:47 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 12/8/2014 8:08:46 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 12/8/2014 11:30:09 AM, ethang5 wrote:

DO YOU SEE IT?? if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan

The only thing I see is your blind adherence to the doctrine of men rather than the words of God. Of course I knew, just like when MCB is asked about the lies of the Jehovah Witnesses, he has no response, you can't address the failings of "the church" either.

Go and let old men living extravagantly off the tithes of poor old ladies tell you how you should live your spiritual life. Ignore the multiple times in history, and up to today, they have violated God's commandments. Worship Mary.

I will stay focused on God's word, you can let non-christian men in robes lead you.

Stay cool.

ethang5 You will stay focused on God's word???????!!!

God' word... "Listen to the CHURCH!"
God' word... "The CHURCH is the Pillar and the foundation of truth!"
God' word... "The Body of Jesus is the CHURCH"!
God' word... To the CHURCH.."Go into all the world TEACHING"!
God' word... To the CHURCH.. "I am with you ALWAYS to the end of the world"!
God' word... "I love the CHURCH, I died for the CHURCH"!
God' word.. "The CHURCH is HOLY!"
God' word.. "The CHURCH is BLAMELESS"!
God' word.. "The CHURCH is without stain"!
God' word.. To the CHURCH.. "Teaching men saves men"!
God' word.. "The gates of hell will not prevail against the CHURCH"!

ethang5 QUESTION.... Post me the scriptures "God' Word" that says; "The scriptures are the ONLY AUTHORITY"!
You will stay focused on God's word????

Show me God' word!!! Until then all I see is a person focused on a MAN MADE TRADITION started by protesters fifteen hundred years AFTER Jesus established his TEACHING AUTHORITATIVE church! The De-formers rejected "God' word" to establish their TRADITION of "Don't need church to be saved!"

THINK... Man think!!!!!!!!!! .... There was NO scriptures (of any quantity) before the printing press. The bible was a costly work of art, it was the CHURCH that taught Jesus, the CHURCH brought Jesus ans salvation to the world for the first seventeen hundred years! MOST..
Most people could not read!!!

The idea of "All man needs is the scriptures" is not historical or logical.. This teaching sends many souls to Satan.. Surly Satan has had his hand in the making of this TRADITION started by the de-formers!

The "Church" used in the Epistles is NOT the Roman Catholic Church.
The Church has no teaching other than the teaching of Jesus. And I want no teaching other then the teachings of Jesus. Jesus told me I was complete in Him.

Your church has brought only error.
Purgatory is a "church teaching" and it is a lie.
The ascension of Mary is a "church teaching" and it is a lie.
Homosexual Priests is a "church teaching" and it is a lie.
Worship of Mary is a "church teaching" and it is a lie.
Praying for the dead is a "church teaching" and it is a lie.
Paying ones way into Heaven is a "church teaching" and it is a lie.
Infallible Popes is a "church teaching" and it is a lie.

I could go on. Please, if you want to follow the wolves in sheep's clothing living off the toil of the poor, be my guest. I won't.

I will serve and follow ONLY His Splendorous Magnificence, His Most Excellent Majesty, King Jesus. He who reigns forever. Amen.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/10/2014 10:40:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 12:48:45 PM, Dogknox wrote:
Acts 17:11
Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

The Bereans accepted the TEACHING of the CHURCH!
Having only the "Old Testament Scriptures" they found TRUTH by "Listening to the Church" they decide on their own WITHOUT being told; Listen to Church TEACHING them; Paul' TEACHING.
The Bereans clearly are More Noble because they accept Paul's teaching without being told to Listen to him!

The Bereans "Old Testament Scriptures" do not have written "Listen to the church or be treated as a pagan"!

The Jews of Thessalonica refuse to listen to the Church teaching, they accept ONLY the scriptures; SCRIPTURES ALONE! Clearly they are "LESS Noble"!
BUT>> These Jews of Thessalonica have an excuse, when they stand in judgement, they will say; "We did not know we were suppose to listen to the church, we did not have 'Listen to the Church' in our scriptures!"

They are clearly Less Noble BUT>> us today...
We have; "Listen to the Church or be treated as pagan" in our New Testament scriptures, we have NO excuse for not listening to the Church!

All who reject the teaching authority of the church are clearly NOT NOBLE, having no excuse when standing in judgement, we will be judged by Jesus as being NOT NOBLE, for rejecting his words: "Listen to the Church or be treated as pagan"!

Yes, the Berean Jews checked the "Old Testament" scriptures (Acts 17:11 above) with what Church was TEACHING, so what?!

* Church was TEACHING; "Christ Resurrected" this TEACHING is not found in their Old Testament scriptures! They NEEDED Church to find TRUTH!

Proof....
These verses come just before verse #17 (above)
2 As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
3 explaining and proving that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead. "This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah,"


The Berean Jews were MORE NOBLE because they found TRUTH "Christ Resurrected " and accepted the TRUTH from the TEACHING of "The CHURCH"!
.........................It was the TEACHING of the CHURCH that saved them!................

By them selves no one can decide truth all people need an AUTHORITY to TEACH truth!

It's amazing how you Christians can twist the scriptures to promote Christianity as the Church. The true Church of Christ is God's invisible knowledge ( Heaven ) where we all exist as information. We saints and prophets were used by God to testify in writing and speaking of the knowledge that includes the past, present and future. This is how we learned about the future age after this world is destroyed by God, soon.
Dogknox
Posts: 5,087
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12/10/2014 2:56:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/10/2014 10:32:23 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 12/9/2014 10:45:37 AM, Dogknox wrote:

ethang5 You will stay focused on God's word???????!!!

God' word... "Listen to the CHURCH!"
God' word... "The CHURCH is the Pillar and the foundation of truth!"
God' word... "The Body of Jesus is the CHURCH"!
God' word... To the CHURCH.."Go into all the world TEACHING"!
God' word... To the CHURCH.. "I am with you ALWAYS to the end of the world"!
God' word... "I love the CHURCH, I died for the CHURCH"!
God' word.. "The CHURCH is HOLY!"
God' word.. "The CHURCH is BLAMELESS"!
God' word.. "The CHURCH is without stain"!
God' word.. To the CHURCH.. "Teaching men saves men"!
God' word.. "The gates of hell will not prevail against the CHURCH"!

ethang5 QUESTION.... Post me the scriptures "God' Word" that says; "The scriptures are the ONLY AUTHORITY"!
You will stay focused on God's word????

Show me God' word!!! Until then all I see is a person focused on a MAN MADE TRADITION started by protesters fifteen hundred years AFTER Jesus established his TEACHING AUTHORITATIVE church! The De-formers rejected "God' word" to establish their TRADITION of "Don't need church to be saved!"

THINK... Man think!!!!!!!!!! .... There was NO scriptures (of any quantity) before the printing press. The bible was a costly work of art, it was the CHURCH that taught Jesus, the CHURCH brought Jesus ans salvation to the world for the first seventeen hundred years! MOST..
Most people could not read!!!

The idea of "All man needs is the scriptures" is not historical or logical.. This teaching sends many souls to Satan.. Surly Satan has had his hand in the making of this TRADITION started by the de-formers!

The "Church" used in the Epistles is NOT the Roman Catholic Church.
The Church has no teaching other than the teaching of Jesus. And I want no teaching other then the teachings of Jesus. Jesus told me I was complete in Him.

Your church has brought only error.
Purgatory is a "church teaching" and it is a lie.
The ascension of Mary is a "church teaching" and it is a lie.
Homosexual Priests is a "church teaching" and it is a lie.
Worship of Mary is a "church teaching" and it is a lie.
Praying for the dead is a "church teaching" and it is a lie.
Paying ones way into Heaven is a "church teaching" and it is a lie.
Infallible Popes is a "church teaching" and it is a lie.

I could go on. Please, if you want to follow the wolves in sheep's clothing living off the toil of the poor, be my guest. I won't.

I will serve and follow ONLY His Splendorous Magnificence, His Most Excellent Majesty, King Jesus. He who reigns forever. Amen.

ethang5 No offence but....You said.. "You will only stay focused on God' word"?!
I reply: Staying FOCUSED on God' word is believing God' words! You have to REJECT God' words, to say what you said (above)!

God's word... "I am with you ALWAYS to the end of time"!
FACT ethang5 Jesus established only one church and it was not yours! Jesus is ALWAYS WITH the only church he established FOREVER with his bride! He does not need to be restored!

ethang5 Jesus' church is "BLAMELESS" without stain!!!
FACT IS: You reject God' word, you are FOCUSED on the teaching TRADITION of the protesters! They also believed "Jesus must have lied" when he gave the "Great Commission" in his words you are so focused on.
You BLAME the Church Jesus is ALWAYS WITH! You say; "Jesus is NOT ALWAYS with the Church he established!" You say; "The gates of hell overpowered Jesus' Church"!

LOOK..
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

You REJECT God' words to BLAME his HOLY CHURCH as you do!

ethang5 You are forced to REJECT the words of God to remain in your PROTEST against him!! More facts (below) you must reject look.. This is a WARNING to you about what happen to you if you do NOT accept Jesus' words!!
48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.

ethang5 Stay focused on this>>> The warning (above) is telling you; "You REJECT Jesus and CONDEMN yourself" by not accepting the words of Jesus!
Dogknox
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12/10/2014 3:14:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/10/2014 10:31:50 AM, Envisage wrote:

By them selves no one can decide truth all people need an AUTHORITY to TEACH truth!

A minor note. "Scripture" just meant "writings" or "letters" during the time the epistles were written, the meaning is very different to how the word "scripture" is used now.

Hello Envisage I hope all is well..

I reply: I do not want to offend you... I think I have!
My point is very direct...... My point is: The idea of, "We do not need the Church Jesus established or her sacraments for salvation, all we need is the scriptures and faith ALONE" is a TEACHING of man, it is a man made TRADITION started by the "De-Former's"!

Faith ALONE and Scriptures ALONE was never heard of or thought of until the "De-Formation" seventeen hundred years AFTER Jesus established his AUTHORITATIVE TEACHING Church! There is NO place found in the scriptures that support these two man made TRADITIONS!

LOOK: The Great Commission
18.... "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."


1) Verse 18 Jesus (God' AUTHORITY) is given to the CHURCH by Jesus!
2) Verse 19 Jesus commissions his CHURCH to make disciples by BAPTIZING all nations! By all the AUTHORITY of God.. Speaking for God.. Speaking for God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit with all of their AUTHORITY make DISCIPLES by BAPTIZING!
3) Verse 20 Tells you the AUTHORITY of God extends to TEACHING all nations; Teaching all NATIONS ALL that Jesus commanded!
4) Verse 20 ends with a vow from God... He will never ever leave his Church to the end of time he is ALWAYS with his Church!

Envisage you are forced to call Jesus a liar, you deny "Baptism makes Disciples", you deny the AUTHORITY Jesus gave his church! You deny the Church Jesus established can TEACH all nations! You deny Jesus is always with his One Holy Church FOREVER! You are forced to believe Jesus was somehow overpowered by Satan and Satan TOOK Jesus' body, Jesus' BRIDE from Jesus! You THINK you MUST somehow come to the rescue for God and restore Jesus' body back for him!!

FACT IS: Scriptures tell you Jesus is ALWAYS with his Church his body does not need to be restored! FACT IS: The idea of "Scriptures are all you need is a LIE started by the Deformer's that rejected the Great Commission to teach their lie to you! They had to REJECT the scriptures to teach the scriptures are the ONLY TRUTH!

You successfully wrote a sermon that ignores my point. Well done.

You said... A minor note. "Scripture" just meant "writings" or "letters" during the time the epistles were written, the meaning is very different to how the word "scripture" is used now.

I reply... What you wrote was open ended! You did not finish your thought! You did not tell me, "What the difference is today in comparison to how they were first written"!!!!!

I point out it was the Holy Catholic Church GUIDED by the Holy Spirit that put all the inspired manuscripts into the one book she named "The Bible"!
Envisage Until the Pope closed the "Canon of Scripture" no one could say with any certainty what they were using to TEACH the peoples was truly inspired or not!!
Envisage You might as well toss your bible out your stinking window if you reject the authority of the Holy Catholic Church! Your bible was put together by the Church you reject!

THINK: If the Holy Spirit guided the Holy Catholic Church in deciding the inspired from the uninspired manuscripts don't you think the Holy Spirit would also not stick around and help his Church INTERPRET the same works!?

LOOK....
John 14:16
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever"

Envisage The Holy Spirit did not start with your man made church.. Thus you are forced to believe Jesus lied that the Holy Spirit is NOT "Forever with the Church Jesus established"!

John 14:16 (above) is the words of Jesus! FACT your church does not have a traceable history back to Jesus and John 14:16, instead of rejecting your man made church you reject Jesus' church and Jesus' words!!!!!
annanicole
Posts: 19,791
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12/12/2014 11:35:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/10/2014 3:14:17 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 12/10/2014 10:31:50 AM, Envisage wrote:

By them selves no one can decide truth all people need an AUTHORITY to TEACH truth!

A minor note. "Scripture" just meant "writings" or "letters" during the time the epistles were written, the meaning is very different to how the word "scripture" is used now.

Hello Envisage I hope all is well..

I reply: I do not want to offend you... I think I have!
My point is very direct...... My point is: The idea of, "We do not need the Church Jesus established or her sacraments for salvation, all we need is the scriptures and faith ALONE" is a TEACHING of man, it is a man made TRADITION started by the "De-Former's"!

Faith ALONE and Scriptures ALONE was never heard of or thought of until the "De-Formation" seventeen hundred years AFTER Jesus established his AUTHORITATIVE TEACHING Church! There is NO place found in the scriptures that support these two man made TRADITIONS!

LOOK: The Great Commission
18.... "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."


1) Verse 18 Jesus (God' AUTHORITY) is given to the CHURCH by Jesus!
2) Verse 19 Jesus commissions his CHURCH to make disciples by BAPTIZING all nations! By all the AUTHORITY of God.. Speaking for God.. Speaking for God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit with all of their AUTHORITY make DISCIPLES by BAPTIZING!
3) Verse 20 Tells you the AUTHORITY of God extends to TEACHING all nations; Teaching all NATIONS ALL that Jesus commanded!
4) Verse 20 ends with a vow from God... He will never ever leave his Church to the end of time he is ALWAYS with his Church!

Envisage you are forced to call Jesus a liar, you deny "Baptism makes Disciples", you deny the AUTHORITY Jesus gave his church! You deny the Church Jesus established can TEACH all nations! You deny Jesus is always with his One Holy Church FOREVER! You are forced to believe Jesus was somehow overpowered by Satan and Satan TOOK Jesus' body, Jesus' BRIDE from Jesus! You THINK you MUST somehow come to the rescue for God and restore Jesus' body back for him!!

FACT IS: Scriptures tell you Jesus is ALWAYS with his Church his body does not need to be restored! FACT IS: The idea of "Scriptures are all you need is a LIE started by the Deformer's that rejected the Great Commission to teach their lie to you! They had to REJECT the scriptures to teach the scriptures are the ONLY TRUTH!

You successfully wrote a sermon that ignores my point. Well done.

You said... A minor note. "Scripture" just meant "writings" or "letters" during the time the epistles were written, the meaning is very different to how the word "scripture" is used now.

I reply... What you wrote was open ended! You did not finish your thought! You did not tell me, "What the difference is today in comparison to how they were first written"!!!!!

I point out it was the Holy Catholic Church GUIDED by the Holy Spirit that put all the inspired manuscripts into the one book she named "The Bible"!
Envisage Until the Pope closed the "Canon of Scripture" no one could say with any certainty what they were using to TEACH the peoples was truly inspired or not!!
Envisage You might as well toss your bible out your stinking window if you reject the authority of the Holy Catholic Church! Your bible was put together by the Church you reject!

THINK: If the Holy Spirit guided the Holy Catholic Church in deciding the inspired from the uninspired manuscripts don't you think the Holy Spirit would also not stick around and help his Church INTERPRET the same works!?

What kind of fool would run around claiming that the Holy Spirit was needed in order to tell the inspired from the uninspired manuscripts?

Also, why did the Catholic Church not exercise this same pretended power when it habitually quoted "works" from certain "church fathers" as some sort of proof for centuries and centuries, then to the Catholic Church's dismay, it was forced to admit that these "authoritative works" of church fathers were nothing but cleverly-crafted forgeries? It doesn't look to me like the Catholic Church can tell a fake from the genuine article.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Dogknox
Posts: 5,087
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12/12/2014 9:39:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/10/2014 10:31:50 AM, Envisage wrote:
At 12/10/2014 10:26:32 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 12/9/2014 5:57:15 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 12/1/2014 12:48:45 PM, Dogknox wrote:
Acts 17:11
Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

The Bereans accepted the TEACHING of the CHURCH!
Having only the "Old Testament Scriptures" they found TRUTH by "Listening to the Church" they decide on their own WITHOUT being told; Listen to Church TEACHING them; Paul' TEACHING.
The Bereans clearly are More Noble because they accept Paul's teaching without being told to Listen to him!

The Bereans "Old Testament Scriptures" do not have written "Listen to the church or be treated as a pagan"!

The Jews of Thessalonica refuse to listen to the Church teaching, they accept ONLY the scriptures; SCRIPTURES ALONE! Clearly they are "LESS Noble"!
BUT>> These Jews of Thessalonica have an excuse, when they stand in judgement, they will say; "We did not know we were suppose to listen to the church, we did not have 'Listen to the Church' in our scriptures!"

They are clearly Less Noble BUT>> us today...
We have; "Listen to the Church or be treated as pagan" in our New Testament scriptures, we have NO excuse for not listening to the Church!

All who reject the teaching authority of the church are clearly NOT NOBLE, having no excuse when standing in judgement, we will be judged by Jesus as being NOT NOBLE, for rejecting his words: "Listen to the Church or be treated as pagan"!

Yes, the Berean Jews checked the "Old Testament" scriptures (Acts 17:11 above) with what Church was TEACHING, so what?!

* Church was TEACHING; "Christ Resurrected" this TEACHING is not found in their Old Testament scriptures! They NEEDED Church to find TRUTH!

Proof....
These verses come just before verse #17 (above)
2 As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
3 explaining and proving that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead. "This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah,"


The Berean Jews were MORE NOBLE because they found TRUTH "Christ Resurrected " and accepted the TRUTH from the TEACHING of "The CHURCH"!
.........................It was the TEACHING of the CHURCH that saved them!................

By them selves no one can decide truth all people need an AUTHORITY to TEACH truth!

A minor note. "Scripture" just meant "writings" or "letters" during the time the epistles were written, the meaning is very different to how the word "scripture" is used now.

Hello Envisage I hope all is well..

I reply: I do not want to offend you... I think I have!
My point is very direct...... My point is: The idea of, "We do not need the Church Jesus established or her sacraments for salvation, all we need is the scriptures and faith ALONE" is a TEACHING of man, it is a man made TRADITION started by the "De-Former's"!

Faith ALONE and Scriptures ALONE was never heard of or thought of until the "De-Formation" seventeen hundred years AFTER Jesus established his AUTHORITATIVE TEACHING Church! There is NO place found in the scriptures that support these two man made TRADITIONS!

LOOK: The Great Commission
18.... "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."


1) Verse 18 Jesus (God' AUTHORITY) is given to the CHURCH by Jesus!
2) Verse 19 Jesus commissions his CHURCH to make disciples by BAPTIZING all nations! By all the AUTHORITY of God.. Speaking for God.. Speaking for God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit with all of their AUTHORITY make DISCIPLES by BAPTIZING!
3) Verse 20 Tells you the AUTHORITY of God extends to TEACHING all nations; Teaching all NATIONS ALL that Jesus commanded!
4) Verse 20 ends with a vow from God... He will never ever leave his Church to the end of time he is ALWAYS with his Church!

Envisage you are forced to call Jesus a liar, you deny "Baptism makes Disciples", you deny the AUTHORITY Jesus gave his church! You deny the Church Jesus established can TEACH all nations! You deny Jesus is always with his One Holy Church FOREVER! You are forced to believe Jesus was somehow overpowered by Satan and Satan TOOK Jesus' body, Jesus' BRIDE from Jesus! You THINK you MUST somehow come to the rescue for God and restore Jesus' body back for him!!

FACT IS: Scriptures tell you Jesus is ALWAYS with his Church his body does not need to be restored! FACT IS: The idea of "Scriptures are all you need is a LIE started by the Deformer's that rejected the Great Commission to teach their lie to you! They had to REJECT the scriptures to teach the scriptures are the ONLY TRUTH!

You successfully wrote a sermon that ignores my point. Well done.

Bump to post #17