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Christianity; The Liar's Religion?

Beastt
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12/1/2014 10:12:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Why do Christians appear to be so much more prone to blatant lies than the followers of other religions?

Is it the doctrines of Christianity itself? Or does it simply attract people who find honesty to be purely an option?

What might be the cause of this penchant for lying among Christians? (It's so bad, that I needn't mention names. Most of use here would probably point to the same four as the top four on the site.) Yet it's not just this site. Where you have a community of Christians, you'll see them spouting all kinds of claims they know not to be true. Why?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
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12/1/2014 10:41:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 10:16:29 PM, JudahthePious wrote:
christism is fals

Yeah, I know that already. My question is; does it promote dishonesty? Or does it simply attract dishonest people?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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12/1/2014 10:43:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 10:41:24 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 12/1/2014 10:16:29 PM, JudahthePious wrote:
christism is fals

Yeah, I know that already. My question is; does it promote dishonesty? Or does it simply attract dishonest people?

It's a troll. Don't reply to it.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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12/1/2014 10:56:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 10:12:02 PM, Beastt wrote:
Why do Christians appear to be so much more prone to blatant lies than the followers of other religions?

Is it the doctrines of Christianity itself? Or does it simply attract people who find honesty to be purely an option?

What might be the cause of this penchant for lying among Christians? (It's so bad, that I needn't mention names. Most of use here would probably point to the same four as the top four on the site.) Yet it's not just this site. Where you have a community of Christians, you'll see them spouting all kinds of claims they know not to be true. Why?

Before i continue just to make sure we are on the same starting point:

Could you define lie? I have a definition in my head and a few taken from popular dictionaries but What are you calling a lie? Is a lie something someone says that you disagree with?
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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12/1/2014 10:57:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 10:56:25 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 12/1/2014 10:12:02 PM, Beastt wrote:
Why do Christians appear to be so much more prone to blatant lies than the followers of other religions?

Is it the doctrines of Christianity itself? Or does it simply attract people who find honesty to be purely an option?

What might be the cause of this penchant for lying among Christians? (It's so bad, that I needn't mention names. Most of use here would probably point to the same four as the top four on the site.) Yet it's not just this site. Where you have a community of Christians, you'll see them spouting all kinds of claims they know not to be true. Why?

Before i continue just to make sure we are on the same starting point:

Could you define lie? I have a definition in my head and a few taken from popular dictionaries but What are you calling a lie? Is a lie something someone says that you disagree with?

Nah that would be the christian definition.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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12/1/2014 10:59:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 10:57:43 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/1/2014 10:56:25 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 12/1/2014 10:12:02 PM, Beastt wrote:
Why do Christians appear to be so much more prone to blatant lies than the followers of other religions?

Is it the doctrines of Christianity itself? Or does it simply attract people who find honesty to be purely an option?

What might be the cause of this penchant for lying among Christians? (It's so bad, that I needn't mention names. Most of use here would probably point to the same four as the top four on the site.) Yet it's not just this site. Where you have a community of Christians, you'll see them spouting all kinds of claims they know not to be true. Why?

Before i continue just to make sure we are on the same starting point:

Could you define lie? I have a definition in my head and a few taken from popular dictionaries but What are you calling a lie? Is a lie something someone says that you disagree with?

Nah that would be the christian definition.

Proverbs 17:7
Arrogant lips are unsuited to a fool. How much worse lying lips to a ruler!
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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12/1/2014 11:10:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 10:56:25 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 12/1/2014 10:12:02 PM, Beastt wrote:
Why do Christians appear to be so much more prone to blatant lies than the followers of other religions?

Is it the doctrines of Christianity itself? Or does it simply attract people who find honesty to be purely an option?

What might be the cause of this penchant for lying among Christians? (It's so bad, that I needn't mention names. Most of use here would probably point to the same four as the top four on the site.) Yet it's not just this site. Where you have a community of Christians, you'll see them spouting all kinds of claims they know not to be true. Why?

Before i continue just to make sure we are on the same starting point:

Could you define lie?
Hmmm, maybe we've hit upon part of the problem. Do you not understand that intentional deception is a lie? When a Christian claims that atheists hate God, do they not understand that they're lying... even when they've had atheism defined for them numerous times? When a Christian claims that a given author didn't write a given book, and continues to make that claim even after he's been shown that very book at Amazon, does he not know that he's lying? When you show scripture to a Christian, and his response is "the Bible doesn't say that", does he not realize that he's lying?

I have a definition in my head and a few taken from popular dictionaries but What are you calling a lie? Is a lie something someone says that you disagree with?
A lie is intentional deception.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/1/2014 11:27:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 10:12:02 PM, Beastt wrote:
Why do Christians appear to be so much more prone to blatant lies than the followers of other religions?

Outward appearances can be deceptive. They don't realize they are lying. They usually really do believe their own words. They definitely all believe their own perceptions the same as any non Christians all believe their own perceptions.

Is it the doctrines of Christianity itself? Or does it simply attract people who find honesty to be purely an option?

It attracts gullible people with soft hearts. It attracts needy people and also attracts con artists who see they can make easy money from gullible needy people.

What might be the cause of this penchant for lying among Christians? (It's so bad, that I needn't mention names. Most of use here would probably point to the same four as the top four on the site.) Yet it's not just this site. Where you have a community of Christians, you'll see them spouting all kinds of claims they know not to be true. Why?

The cause is ignorance of their own lies and not wanting to face the truth. The cause is also the fact that the scriptures are ambiguous and so is the
"Christianese" language used by Christians.

For example, to "never die" does not mean "never die". It means you will still die temporarily but one day in the unknown future you will rise out of the grave in a new body. However it makes no difference to the dead people since they have no awareness of any time anyway. To them it will be like they never died. It will be no different to a nights sleep.
It makes perfect sense to the gullible who want to believe they will wake up from their sleep/death one day. It gives them hope for the future rather than take all hope away from them. It gives them a meaning for life which has no meaning to them without hope of eternal life.
Preaching to save others from "hell" gives them a reason to live and makes them feel they are doing something worthwhile with their lives. They are pleasing their God even if they don't please everyone else in the process.

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.
Mhykiel
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12/1/2014 11:35:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 11:10:55 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 12/1/2014 10:56:25 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 12/1/2014 10:12:02 PM, Beastt wrote:
Why do Christians appear to be so much more prone to blatant lies than the followers of other religions?

Is it the doctrines of Christianity itself? Or does it simply attract people who find honesty to be purely an option?

What might be the cause of this penchant for lying among Christians? (It's so bad, that I needn't mention names. Most of use here would probably point to the same four as the top four on the site.) Yet it's not just this site. Where you have a community of Christians, you'll see them spouting all kinds of claims they know not to be true. Why?

Before i continue just to make sure we are on the same starting point:

Could you define lie?
Hmmm, maybe we've hit upon part of the problem. Do you not understand that intentional deception is a lie? When a Christian claims that atheists hate God, do they not understand that they're lying... even when they've had atheism defined for them numerous times?

Atheist are people. Atheism is a precept. Your stereotypical christian is making a stereotypical remark about people that hold the precept "lack of believe in gods/god" are hateful of said God. This generalization probably stems from the fact that most Atheist (the people) here make statements such as "there is no god". Which is a statement about the shared reality we all exist in, and therefore should be supported by the stater when challenged. The Stereotypical Christian as you portray them, sees this denial of God stemming from a repressed hatred.

Now is this a lie? Thanks for defining lie as an intentional deception. The question becomes does the Christian KNOW the truth and is intentional telling something that is NOT the truth? Well the Christian can't know what's in a persons heart. Only God can. The Christian can only know if 1. the Atheist actually has said "I hate God" or if the Atheists comments about God express a hatred. At any point the Sentence Atheist (generally all atheist) hate God, is a gross generalization that can not apply to all Atheist. It would be rude, just like an Atheist claiming Christians (all Christians) are blah blah.

When a Christian claims that a given author didn't write a given book, and continues to make that claim even after he's been shown that very book at Amazon, does he not know that he's lying?

There are such a thing as ghost writers, and by-line tho mostly indicates authorship. I would say generally speaking that person should stop making that claim.

When you show scripture to a Christian, and his response is "the Bible doesn't say that", does he not realize that he's lying?


Are you sure the Christian is not replying to your summary, or interpretation of the verse shown? If the verse is cited than that is what the Bible says. But the discussion is not over. Especially because what is often cited, some verses are such a mess from any semblance of the original writing. Due to the translation from one language to another. And read in context of the audience it was being given to. Even in our own language simple words such as "chic" "aweful" "fantastic" have changed meaning in less than 200 years, some in less than 100.

I have a definition in my head and a few taken from popular dictionaries but What are you calling a lie? Is a lie something someone says that you disagree with?
A lie is intentional deception.

I would agree with that. You would have to show evidence that All Christians (you made it a generalized segment of the population in your title and first comment) have knowledge of subject A and then intentionally propose NOT A.
mortsdor
Posts: 1,181
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12/1/2014 11:36:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 10:41:24 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 12/1/2014 10:16:29 PM, JudahthePious wrote:
christism is fals

Yeah, I know that already. My question is; does it promote dishonesty? Or does it simply attract dishonest people?

There are dishonest people, who might be termed Liars, who've got all sorts of beliefs.

Yourself for instance. ;)
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/2/2014 12:09:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 11:10:55 PM, Beastt wrote:
When you show scripture to a Christian, and his response is "the Bible doesn't say that", does he not realize that he's lying?


No he doesn't. He is basically saying that the bible does not mean what it appears to mean on all outward appearances. You need to have the revelation of what it really means and they believe only the "Holy Spirit' or "voice of God" can give you that. It is a gift given to the "chosen" who believe what they are told and do not question the messengers.
Their words are as ambiguous as the scriptures which they believe.

Ambiguity is not a lie. It is only a lie to those who cannot see it can also be interpreted as the truth and refuse to interpret it as truth.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/2/2014 1:33:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 10:12:02 PM, Beastt wrote:
Why do Christians appear to be so much more prone to blatant lies than the followers of other religions?

Is it the doctrines of Christianity itself? Or does it simply attract people who find honesty to be purely an option?

What might be the cause of this penchant for lying among Christians? (It's so bad, that I needn't mention names. Most of use here would probably point to the same four as the top four on the site.) Yet it's not just this site. Where you have a community of Christians, you'll see them spouting all kinds of claims they know not to be true. Why?

Christianity contains both believers of the invisible Christ and antichrists, those who reject the invisible Christ when it is spoken to them by God's last saint on this earth. Christ is not the last name of a saint named Jesus. It is a symbolic name meaning the mind ( thoughts ) of God which are converted into invisible vibrations.

Most Christians are antichrists who practice religion that comes from the beast such as Jewish traditions and Babylonian style false deities. All these antichrists love the false gods that they build with their human hands and take great pride in them. They don't care to know that God's illusions called trees and the rest of the objects in this universe weren't made with any human hands.

It's very easy to see the hypocritical antichrists who need to use their new testament as proof that their false gods are acceptable to their false deity named Jesus.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/2/2014 1:35:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 10:12:02 PM, Beastt wrote:
Why do Christians appear to be so much more prone to blatant lies than the followers of other religions?

Is it the doctrines of Christianity itself? Or does it simply attract people who find honesty to be purely an option?

What might be the cause of this penchant for lying among Christians? (It's so bad, that I needn't mention names. Most of use here would probably point to the same four as the top four on the site.) Yet it's not just this site. Where you have a community of Christians, you'll see them spouting all kinds of claims they know not to be true. Why?

Christianity contains both believers of the invisible Christ and antichrists, those who reject the invisible Christ when it is spoken to them by God's last saint on this earth. Christ is not the last name of a saint named Jesus. It is a symbolic name meaning the mind ( thoughts ) of God which are converted into invisible vibrations.

Most Christians are antichrists who practice religion that comes from the beast such as Jewish traditions and Babylonian style false deities. All these antichrists love the false gods that they build with their human hands and take great pride in them. They don't care to know that God's illusions called trees and the rest of the objects in this universe weren't made with any human hands.

It's very easy to see antichrists ( hypocrites ) who need to use their new testament as proof that their false gods are acceptable to their false deity named Jesus. No antichrist Christians can understand the prophecies that were written by God's prophets.
dee-em
Posts: 6,490
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12/2/2014 1:42:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 11:35:59 PM, Mhykiel wrote:

Atheist are people. Atheism is a precept. Your stereotypical christian is making a stereotypical remark about people that hold the precept "lack of believe in gods/god" are hateful of said God. This generalization probably stems from the fact that most Atheist (the people) here make statements such as "there is no god". Which is a statement about the shared reality we all exist in, and therefore should be supported by the stater when challenged. The Stereotypical Christian as you portray them, sees this denial of God stemming from a repressed hatred.

Now is this a lie? Thanks for defining lie as an intentional deception. The question becomes does the Christian KNOW the truth and is intentional telling something that is NOT the truth? Well the Christian can't know what's in a persons heart. Only God can. The Christian can only know if 1. the Atheist actually has said "I hate God" or if the Atheists comments about God express a hatred. At any point the Sentence Atheist (generally all atheist) hate God, is a gross generalization that can not apply to all Atheist. It would be rude, just like an Atheist claiming Christians (all Christians) are blah blah.

You see, this is lying right here. You're trying to twist and turn and avoid the plain facts. When a theist accuses an atheist of hating god that is a lie. You cannot hate what you don't believe exists. It's not something you can argue about and yet that is exactly what you are doing. That's dishonest. Your conjecture about repressed hatred is irrelevant. Repressed hatred is not hatred of god. It can't be.

What a theist can say to an atheist is: you hate the concept of god or you would hate god if he existed as I describe him. He can't just say: you hate god. That cannot be true no matter how you try and spin it. And yet that is exactly what many Christians keep repeating over and over.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/2/2014 1:52:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/2/2014 1:42:19 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:35:59 PM, Mhykiel wrote:

Atheist are people. Atheism is a precept. Your stereotypical christian is making a stereotypical remark about people that hold the precept "lack of believe in gods/god" are hateful of said God. This generalization probably stems from the fact that most Atheist (the people) here make statements such as "there is no god". Which is a statement about the shared reality we all exist in, and therefore should be supported by the stater when challenged. The Stereotypical Christian as you portray them, sees this denial of God stemming from a repressed hatred.

Now is this a lie? Thanks for defining lie as an intentional deception. The question becomes does the Christian KNOW the truth and is intentional telling something that is NOT the truth? Well the Christian can't know what's in a persons heart. Only God can. The Christian can only know if 1. the Atheist actually has said "I hate God" or if the Atheists comments about God express a hatred. At any point the Sentence Atheist (generally all atheist) hate God, is a gross generalization that can not apply to all Atheist. It would be rude, just like an Atheist claiming Christians (all Christians) are blah blah.

You see, this is lying right here. You're trying to twist and turn and avoid the plain facts. When a theist accuses an atheist of hating god that is a lie. You cannot hate what you don't believe exists. It's not something you can argue about and yet that is exactly what you are doing. That's dishonest. Your conjecture about repressed hatred is irrelevant. Repressed hatred is not hatred of god. It can't be.

What a theist can say to an atheist is: you hate the concept of god or you would hate god if he existed as I describe him. He can't just say: you hate god. That cannot be true no matter how you try and spin it. And yet that is exactly what many Christians keep repeating over and over.

The biblical meaning for the word "hate" means to totally reject someone or an idea. So by hating our Creator means to totally reject Him. Anger has nothing to do with the word hate. You can be very angry at someone like your mother or father but still not totally reject ( hate ) them.
Beastt
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12/2/2014 3:07:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/2/2014 12:09:23 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:10:55 PM, Beastt wrote:
When you show scripture to a Christian, and his response is "the Bible doesn't say that", does he not realize that he's lying?


No he doesn't. He is basically saying that the bible does not mean what it appears to mean on all outward appearances. You need to have the revelation of what it really means and they believe only the "Holy Spirit' or "voice of God" can give you that. It is a gift given to the "chosen" who believe what they are told and do not question the messengers.
Their words are as ambiguous as the scriptures which they believe.

Ambiguity is not a lie. It is only a lie to those who cannot see it can also be interpreted as the truth and refuse to interpret it as truth.

I'm sorry, but when you post the verses word-for-word and they respond "the Bible doesn't say that" that's a lie. Even if they have an alternative interpretation, it's still a lie to claim the Bible doesn't say what it says. And since there is no confirmed revelation to what it says, it simply adds to their disingenuousness to claim it doesn't say what it clearly does say.

And I'm not talking about posting an interpretation. I'm talking about posting the verse word-for-word. It's outright lying and they need to own up to that.

A Christian who can't be honest with themselves, is never going to be able to be honest with anyone else. Christians aren't supposed to lie, and yes, the Bible DOES say that.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
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12/2/2014 3:24:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/2/2014 1:33:00 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/1/2014 10:12:02 PM, Beastt wrote:
Why do Christians appear to be so much more prone to blatant lies than the followers of other religions?

Is it the doctrines of Christianity itself? Or does it simply attract people who find honesty to be purely an option?

What might be the cause of this penchant for lying among Christians? (It's so bad, that I needn't mention names. Most of use here would probably point to the same four as the top four on the site.) Yet it's not just this site. Where you have a community of Christians, you'll see them spouting all kinds of claims they know not to be true. Why?

Christianity contains both believers of the invisible Christ and antichrists, those who reject the invisible Christ when it is spoken to them by God's last saint on this earth. Christ is not the last name of a saint named Jesus. It is a symbolic name meaning the mind ( thoughts ) of God which are converted into invisible vibrations.

Most Christians are antichrists who practice religion that comes from the beast such as Jewish traditions and Babylonian style false deities. All these antichrists love the false gods that they build with their human hands and take great pride in them. They don't care to know that God's illusions called trees and the rest of the objects in this universe weren't made with any human hands.

It's very easy to see the hypocritical antichrists who need to use their new testament as proof that their false gods are acceptable to their false deity named Jesus.

Since this is all just God's dream (in your interpretation), anything anyone does is God's fault and people can't be blamed for anything they do.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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12/2/2014 3:25:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 11:36:14 PM, mortsdor wrote:
At 12/1/2014 10:41:24 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 12/1/2014 10:16:29 PM, JudahthePious wrote:
christism is fals

Yeah, I know that already. My question is; does it promote dishonesty? Or does it simply attract dishonest people?

There are dishonest people, who might be termed Liars, who've got all sorts of beliefs.

Yourself for instance. ;)

Except, of course, that I backed up my claims with multiple forms of evidence - all which work together to support my assertions. And you couldn't do that, nor can you get over it.

Take off the skirt and admit what you are (aside from just pathetic). Got it?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
annanicole
Posts: 19,792
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12/2/2014 3:50:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/2/2014 3:07:20 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 12/2/2014 12:09:23 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:10:55 PM, Beastt wrote:
When you show scripture to a Christian, and his response is "the Bible doesn't say that", does he not realize that he's lying?


No he doesn't. He is basically saying that the bible does not mean what it appears to mean on all outward appearances. You need to have the revelation of what it really means and they believe only the "Holy Spirit' or "voice of God" can give you that. It is a gift given to the "chosen" who believe what they are told and do not question the messengers.
Their words are as ambiguous as the scriptures which they believe.

Ambiguity is not a lie. It is only a lie to those who cannot see it can also be interpreted as the truth and refuse to interpret it as truth.

I'm sorry, but when you post the verses word-for-word and they respond "the Bible doesn't say that" that's a lie. Even if they have an alternative interpretation, it's still a lie to claim the Bible doesn't say what it says.

WHAT? So any interpretation that does not agree with your habitually hyperliteralistic rendering is a lie? Thus, according to you all poetic figures are lies, with hyberoles heading the list. Heck, for you all know, certain translations might be wrong. If one translation says one thing, but another says another thing, does that constitute a lie also?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Beastt
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12/2/2014 4:08:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/2/2014 3:50:59 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/2/2014 3:07:20 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 12/2/2014 12:09:23 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:10:55 PM, Beastt wrote:
When you show scripture to a Christian, and his response is "the Bible doesn't say that", does he not realize that he's lying?


No he doesn't. He is basically saying that the bible does not mean what it appears to mean on all outward appearances. You need to have the revelation of what it really means and they believe only the "Holy Spirit' or "voice of God" can give you that. It is a gift given to the "chosen" who believe what they are told and do not question the messengers.
Their words are as ambiguous as the scriptures which they believe.

Ambiguity is not a lie. It is only a lie to those who cannot see it can also be interpreted as the truth and refuse to interpret it as truth.

I'm sorry, but when you post the verses word-for-word and they respond "the Bible doesn't say that" that's a lie. Even if they have an alternative interpretation, it's still a lie to claim the Bible doesn't say what it says.

WHAT? So any interpretation that does not agree with your habitually hyperliteralistic rendering is a lie? Thus, according to you all poetic figures are lies, with hyberoles heading the list. Heck, for you all know, certain translations might be wrong. If one translation says one thing, but another says another thing, does that constitute a lie also?

This time, when you read my words, pay very, VERY close attention to what they say. They're not ambiguous in the least. Is the television off? Have you closed your other windows? Are you ready to pay attention now?

Good! Let's proceed.

When verses are posted, word-for-word from the Bible, and a Christian responds by writing, "the Bible doesn't say that" (which happens quite frequently), THEY ARE LYING!

Now.. which part of that was above your intellectual pay grade?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
annanicole
Posts: 19,792
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12/2/2014 4:28:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/2/2014 4:08:53 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 12/2/2014 3:50:59 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/2/2014 3:07:20 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 12/2/2014 12:09:23 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:10:55 PM, Beastt wrote:
When you show scripture to a Christian, and his response is "the Bible doesn't say that", does he not realize that he's lying?


No he doesn't. He is basically saying that the bible does not mean what it appears to mean on all outward appearances. You need to have the revelation of what it really means and they believe only the "Holy Spirit' or "voice of God" can give you that. It is a gift given to the "chosen" who believe what they are told and do not question the messengers.
Their words are as ambiguous as the scriptures which they believe.

Ambiguity is not a lie. It is only a lie to those who cannot see it can also be interpreted as the truth and refuse to interpret it as truth.

I'm sorry, but when you post the verses word-for-word and they respond "the Bible doesn't say that" that's a lie. Even if they have an alternative interpretation, it's still a lie to claim the Bible doesn't say what it says.

WHAT? So any interpretation that does not agree with your habitually hyperliteralistic rendering is a lie? Thus, according to you all poetic figures are lies, with hyberoles heading the list. Heck, for you all know, certain translations might be wrong. If one translation says one thing, but another says another thing, does that constitute a lie also?

This time, when you read my words, pay very, VERY close attention to what they say. They're not ambiguous in the least. Is the television off? Have you closed your other windows? Are you ready to pay attention now?

Good! Let's proceed.

When verses are posted, word-for-word from the Bible, and a Christian responds by writing, "the Bible doesn't say that" (which happens quite frequently), THEY ARE LYING!

Now.. which part of that was above your intellectual pay grade?

Answer the question: "If one translation says one thing, but another says another thing, does that constitute a lie also?"
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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12/2/2014 4:45:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/2/2014 4:28:33 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/2/2014 4:08:53 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 12/2/2014 3:50:59 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/2/2014 3:07:20 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 12/2/2014 12:09:23 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:10:55 PM, Beastt wrote:
When you show scripture to a Christian, and his response is "the Bible doesn't say that", does he not realize that he's lying?


No he doesn't. He is basically saying that the bible does not mean what it appears to mean on all outward appearances. You need to have the revelation of what it really means and they believe only the "Holy Spirit' or "voice of God" can give you that. It is a gift given to the "chosen" who believe what they are told and do not question the messengers.
Their words are as ambiguous as the scriptures which they believe.

Ambiguity is not a lie. It is only a lie to those who cannot see it can also be interpreted as the truth and refuse to interpret it as truth.

I'm sorry, but when you post the verses word-for-word and they respond "the Bible doesn't say that" that's a lie. Even if they have an alternative interpretation, it's still a lie to claim the Bible doesn't say what it says.

WHAT? So any interpretation that does not agree with your habitually hyperliteralistic rendering is a lie? Thus, according to you all poetic figures are lies, with hyberoles heading the list. Heck, for you all know, certain translations might be wrong. If one translation says one thing, but another says another thing, does that constitute a lie also?

This time, when you read my words, pay very, VERY close attention to what they say. They're not ambiguous in the least. Is the television off? Have you closed your other windows? Are you ready to pay attention now?

Good! Let's proceed.

When verses are posted, word-for-word from the Bible, and a Christian responds by writing, "the Bible doesn't say that" (which happens quite frequently), THEY ARE LYING!

Now.. which part of that was above your intellectual pay grade?

Answer the question: "If one translation says one thing, but another says another thing, does that constitute a lie also?"

That's COMPLETELY irrelevant. If it's in A Bible, then it's in THE Bible! Seriously! Show me which of those words you can't grasp and I'll see if I can assist you.

If I post something and state "I got it from an encyclopedia", and you say "the encyclopedia doesn't say that", then as long as what I posted IS in AN encyclopedia... you're lying. It's as simple as that. There is no single confirmed accurate Bible translation, and when you proceed as if there were, you're LYING! Got it?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,490
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12/2/2014 5:04:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 11:10:55 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 12/1/2014 10:56:25 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 12/1/2014 10:12:02 PM, Beastt wrote:
Why do Christians appear to be so much more prone to blatant lies than the followers of other religions?

Is it the doctrines of Christianity itself? Or does it simply attract people who find honesty to be purely an option?

What might be the cause of this penchant for lying among Christians? (It's so bad, that I needn't mention names. Most of use here would probably point to the same four as the top four on the site.) Yet it's not just this site. Where you have a community of Christians, you'll see them spouting all kinds of claims they know not to be true. Why?

Before i continue just to make sure we are on the same starting point:

Could you define lie?
Hmmm, maybe we've hit upon part of the problem. Do you not understand that intentional deception is a lie? When a Christian claims that atheists hate God, do they not understand that they're lying... even when they've had atheism defined for them numerous times? When a Christian claims that a given author didn't write a given book, and continues to make that claim even after he's been shown that very book at Amazon, does he not know that he's lying? When you show scripture to a Christian, and his response is "the Bible doesn't say that", does he not realize that he's lying?

I have a definition in my head and a few taken from popular dictionaries but What are you calling a lie? Is a lie something someone says that you disagree with?
A lie is intentional deception.

but there are other situtations like for example one of the main reasons why people going away from religion becoming athiests is they had experienced tragedy in their lifes or the amount of suffering in this world... so they have 2 ways to get out this is how the logic follows - if God exist, how can he allow such a things to happen? and they start cursing God hate from anger (whether they believe in God or not) every time you mentioning to them the word "God" they start their machine gun cursing fire because of anger comes from past experience...

for example i had teacher of mathematics (he was genius to admit...), he used to say if there God exist, he is not my God, because his anger of "barbaric God" of the bible (his face was turning to apple red from his rage....) so he doesnt believe in God but if he chosing to believe in God. he says God wouldnt my "psychopath" God, and actually lots of athiests speaking like that.
Never fart near dog
annanicole
Posts: 19,792
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12/2/2014 5:25:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/2/2014 4:45:08 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 12/2/2014 4:28:33 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/2/2014 4:08:53 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 12/2/2014 3:50:59 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/2/2014 3:07:20 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 12/2/2014 12:09:23 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:10:55 PM, Beastt wrote:
When you show scripture to a Christian, and his response is "the Bible doesn't say that", does he not realize that he's lying?


No he doesn't. He is basically saying that the bible does not mean what it appears to mean on all outward appearances. You need to have the revelation of what it really means and they believe only the "Holy Spirit' or "voice of God" can give you that. It is a gift given to the "chosen" who believe what they are told and do not question the messengers.
Their words are as ambiguous as the scriptures which they believe.

Ambiguity is not a lie. It is only a lie to those who cannot see it can also be interpreted as the truth and refuse to interpret it as truth.

I'm sorry, but when you post the verses word-for-word and they respond "the Bible doesn't say that" that's a lie. Even if they have an alternative interpretation, it's still a lie to claim the Bible doesn't say what it says.

WHAT? So any interpretation that does not agree with your habitually hyperliteralistic rendering is a lie? Thus, according to you all poetic figures are lies, with hyberoles heading the list. Heck, for you all know, certain translations might be wrong. If one translation says one thing, but another says another thing, does that constitute a lie also?

This time, when you read my words, pay very, VERY close attention to what they say. They're not ambiguous in the least. Is the television off? Have you closed your other windows? Are you ready to pay attention now?

Good! Let's proceed.

When verses are posted, word-for-word from the Bible, and a Christian responds by writing, "the Bible doesn't say that" (which happens quite frequently), THEY ARE LYING!

Now.. which part of that was above your intellectual pay grade?

Answer the question: "If one translation says one thing, but another says another thing, does that constitute a lie also?"

That's COMPLETELY irrelevant. If it's in A Bible, then it's in THE Bible! Seriously! Show me which of those words you can't grasp and I'll see if I can assist you.

If I post something and state "I got it from an encyclopedia", and you say "the encyclopedia doesn't say that", then as long as what I posted IS in AN encyclopedia... you're lying. It's as simple as that. There is no single confirmed accurate Bible translation, and when you proceed as if there were, you're LYING! Got it?

Completely irrelevant? You could say that the Bible says Jesus is a god and quote the New World Translation. I say that it says He is God and cite the KJV. By your retarded reasoning, I'm lying. You not only are an idiot, but you are tending toward being a maniac.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
dee-em
Posts: 6,490
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12/2/2014 5:38:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/2/2014 1:52:03 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/2/2014 1:42:19 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:35:59 PM, Mhykiel wrote:

Atheist are people. Atheism is a precept. Your stereotypical christian is making a stereotypical remark about people that hold the precept "lack of believe in gods/god" are hateful of said God. This generalization probably stems from the fact that most Atheist (the people) here make statements such as "there is no god". Which is a statement about the shared reality we all exist in, and therefore should be supported by the stater when challenged. The Stereotypical Christian as you portray them, sees this denial of God stemming from a repressed hatred.

Now is this a lie? Thanks for defining lie as an intentional deception. The question becomes does the Christian KNOW the truth and is intentional telling something that is NOT the truth? Well the Christian can't know what's in a persons heart. Only God can. The Christian can only know if 1. the Atheist actually has said "I hate God" or if the Atheists comments about God express a hatred. At any point the Sentence Atheist (generally all atheist) hate God, is a gross generalization that can not apply to all Atheist. It would be rude, just like an Atheist claiming Christians (all Christians) are blah blah.

You see, this is lying right here. You're trying to twist and turn and avoid the plain facts. When a theist accuses an atheist of hating god that is a lie. You cannot hate what you don't believe exists. It's not something you can argue about and yet that is exactly what you are doing. That's dishonest. Your conjecture about repressed hatred is irrelevant. Repressed hatred is not hatred of god. It can't be.

What a theist can say to an atheist is: you hate the concept of god or you would hate god if he existed as I describe him. He can't just say: you hate god. That cannot be true no matter how you try and spin it. And yet that is exactly what many Christians keep repeating over and over.

The biblical meaning for the word "hate" means to totally reject someone or an idea. So by hating our Creator means to totally reject Him.

You may not be aware of this, but we are not living in biblical times as we post on this forum. I neither hate nor reject god. I don't believe he exists. You can't hate or reject what doesn't exist. Only the concept can be hated or rejected.

Do you reject the Tooth Fairy or the idea of the Tooth Fairy?

Anger has nothing to do with the word hate. You can be very angry at someone like your mother or father but still not totally reject ( hate ) them.

Who mentioned anger?
dee-em
Posts: 6,490
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12/2/2014 5:51:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/2/2014 4:28:33 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/2/2014 4:08:53 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 12/2/2014 3:50:59 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/2/2014 3:07:20 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 12/2/2014 12:09:23 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:10:55 PM, Beastt wrote:
When you show scripture to a Christian, and his response is "the Bible doesn't say that", does he not realize that he's lying?


No he doesn't. He is basically saying that the bible does not mean what it appears to mean on all outward appearances. You need to have the revelation of what it really means and they believe only the "Holy Spirit' or "voice of God" can give you that. It is a gift given to the "chosen" who believe what they are told and do not question the messengers.
Their words are as ambiguous as the scriptures which they believe.

Ambiguity is not a lie. It is only a lie to those who cannot see it can also be interpreted as the truth and refuse to interpret it as truth.

I'm sorry, but when you post the verses word-for-word and they respond "the Bible doesn't say that" that's a lie. Even if they have an alternative interpretation, it's still a lie to claim the Bible doesn't say what it says.

WHAT? So any interpretation that does not agree with your habitually hyperliteralistic rendering is a lie? Thus, according to you all poetic figures are lies, with hyberoles heading the list. Heck, for you all know, certain translations might be wrong. If one translation says one thing, but another says another thing, does that constitute a lie also?

This time, when you read my words, pay very, VERY close attention to what they say. They're not ambiguous in the least. Is the television off? Have you closed your other windows? Are you ready to pay attention now?

Good! Let's proceed.

When verses are posted, word-for-word from the Bible, and a Christian responds by writing, "the Bible doesn't say that" (which happens quite frequently), THEY ARE LYING!

Now.. which part of that was above your intellectual pay grade?

Answer the question: "If one translation says one thing, but another says another thing, does that constitute a lie also?"

That's not the situation he was describing. As usual you have thrown a red herring into the tank. If a Christian came back and said, "hold on, I have a different translation which says this" then that would be a legitimate point and recourse might have to be made back to the original Greek or Hebrew. However, this is not what Beastt said above. It's when they come back and just deny outright what has been quoted to them, that's when we get upset. In Beastt's words when they claim "the Bible doesn't say that". Do you see any mention of another translation there?
mortsdor
Posts: 1,181
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12/2/2014 6:09:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/2/2014 3:25:55 AM, Beastt wrote:
Except, of course, that I backed up my claims with multiple forms of evidence - all which work together to support my assertions.

lol, Exactly what I was talking about ;)

not one source. what source did you post?

Quote yourself having posted any such source, or...
Reproduce ONE of your multiple sources of evidence for any of your claims.

You're the most straightforward liar I've ever engaged with Here or Anywhere else.

And you couldn't do that, nor can you get over it.

Take off the skirt and admit what you are (aside from just pathetic). Got it?
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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12/2/2014 11:55:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/2/2014 6:09:05 AM, mortsdor wrote:
At 12/2/2014 3:25:55 AM, Beastt wrote:
Except, of course, that I backed up my claims with multiple forms of evidence - all which work together to support my assertions.

lol, Exactly what I was talking about ;)

not one source. what source did you post?

Quote yourself having posted any such source, or...
Reproduce ONE of your multiple sources of evidence for any of your claims.

You're the most straightforward liar I've ever engaged with Here or Anywhere else.

And you couldn't do that, nor can you get over it.

Take off the skirt and admit what you are (aside from just pathetic). Got it?

You are saying that he is a liar. Post evidence to back up your claim. Or can you?
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
mortsdor
Posts: 1,181
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12/2/2014 12:05:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/2/2014 11:55:53 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 12/2/2014 6:09:05 AM, mortsdor wrote:
At 12/2/2014 3:25:55 AM, Beastt wrote:
Except, of course, that I backed up my claims with multiple forms of evidence - all which work together to support my assertions.

lol, Exactly what I was talking about ;)

not one source. what source did you post?

Quote yourself having posted any such source, or...
Reproduce ONE of your multiple sources of evidence for any of your claims.

You're the most straightforward liar I've ever engaged with Here or Anywhere else.

And you couldn't do that, nor can you get over it.

Take off the skirt and admit what you are (aside from just pathetic). Got it?

You are saying that he is a liar. Post evidence to back up your claim. Or can you?

I can hardly post where he didn't cite any sources unless you want me to post EVERY LAST post he made on the subject.
He didn't cite sources in any of them despite repeated requests.

You engaged in EVERY thread where he posted on this topic...

I asked you in the other thread, and you didn't respond, Did You see any sources posted?

I asked for them Repeatedly in his initial thread on the matter, He declined...
He posted a website where literally some seemingly random guy (a rather inept fellow as I pointed out) went on about the subject... However even his own supposed "source" Completely disagreed with his conclusion.. NOR did the fellow ranting in the link attempt to provide confirmation of Any of Beastt's claims.

As I said, I can hardly be expected to prove that he didn't post sources unless I were to list EVERY LAST post he made on the subject.

I ask you (since you've been involved every step of the way) and him to present the event in which he Did post any.

He didn't.