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Catholic and Protestant notions of salvation

tabularasa
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12/3/2014 2:26:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I do not believe that Catholic and Protestant beliefs on the action of salvation are too far afield, and thus uncompromising.

I am a Catholic. If I repent, put my faith in Christ, and live according to God's will, then salvation is mine through God's grace. The Bible, the Church, and the Catechism all say that if I am currently in a state of grace, or friendship with God through faith, that I can count on going to heaven should I die today. If I turn my back on God and decide not to believe, salvation MAY not MUST be lost. This is stated with no degree of certainty. Thus, faith in Christ is salvation.

Other denominations teach that by repenting, putting faith in Christ, and living according to God's will, salvation is yours through God's grace.

I do not see a difference, practically and descriptively speaking.

Some debate the message on works (Romans vs. James). The Book of James definitely talks about works. But works do not save us. Grace saves us through faith. Therefore I posit this definition of works: The action of the Holy Spirit leads us to faith. The Spirit then leads us to do God's will out of love for Him and love for the Gospel. Doing God's will is what James referred to when he spoke of works. We cannot decide what God's will is for our life. We cannot impress Him by our good works. We are saved by grace and not works. But we can be led into the way of life God has chosen for us. By doing His will being led moment by moment by the Holy Spirit, we are fulfilling the "works requirement" of James.

Works defined: led by the Spirit, we obey God and do His will through His grace and out of love for Him.

Practically speaking, I believe Catholic christians and Protestant christians live the same spiritual life. The difference is only semantic.
1. I already googled it.

2. Give me an argument. Spell it out. "You're wrong," is not an argument.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/3/2014 2:28:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/3/2014 2:26:04 PM, tabularasa wrote:
I do not believe that Catholic and Protestant beliefs on the action of salvation are too far afield, and thus uncompromising.

I am a Catholic. If I repent, put my faith in Christ, and live according to God's will, then salvation is mine through God's grace. The Bible, the Church, and the Catechism all say that if I am currently in a state of grace, or friendship with God through faith, that I can count on going to heaven should I die today. If I turn my back on God and decide not to believe, salvation MAY not MUST be lost. This is stated with no degree of certainty. Thus, faith in Christ is salvation.

Other denominations teach that by repenting, putting faith in Christ, and living according to God's will, salvation is yours through God's grace.

I do not see a difference, practically and descriptively speaking.

Some debate the message on works (Romans vs. James). The Book of James definitely talks about works. But works do not save us. Grace saves us through faith. Therefore I posit this definition of works: The action of the Holy Spirit leads us to faith. The Spirit then leads us to do God's will out of love for Him and love for the Gospel. Doing God's will is what James referred to when he spoke of works. We cannot decide what God's will is for our life. We cannot impress Him by our good works. We are saved by grace and not works. But we can be led into the way of life God has chosen for us. By doing His will being led moment by moment by the Holy Spirit, we are fulfilling the "works requirement" of James.

Works defined: led by the Spirit, we obey God and do His will through His grace and out of love for Him.

Practically speaking, I believe Catholic christians and Protestant christians live the same spiritual life. The difference is only semantic.

You are right, they arewn't too far apart. However in many ways they are both wrong. They do not fit in properly with what scripture teaches.

A real case of close, but no cigar in most cases.
tabularasa
Posts: 200
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12/3/2014 2:42:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I am saying more than "they are not too far apart". I am saying that they are the same. The war is over words. Communication is difficult because words mean different things to different people. What if some definitions could be held in common? What are the criticisms of the definition I provided?
1. I already googled it.

2. Give me an argument. Spell it out. "You're wrong," is not an argument.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/3/2014 3:15:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/3/2014 2:42:17 PM, tabularasa wrote:
I am saying more than "they are not too far apart". I am saying that they are the same. The war is over words. Communication is difficult because words mean different things to different people. What if some definitions could be held in common? What are the criticisms of the definition I provided?

There are many points at which they do converge, asnd most of them are in error. God wants, even insists on concensus, but onyl on truth, because ntohing else is important.

When only thsoe who caccept truth for what it si are allowed to exist, life will be immeasurably more peaceful.

The problem is we all have to give up our personal misconceptions and accept reality for what ti actually is.

Most simply don't want to, which is precisel;y as foretold by scripture. Most would rather people saw them as being right than actually being right, because being right means changing your wrong beliefs.
tabularasa
Posts: 200
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12/3/2014 3:24:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
It sounds like you may prescribe a different interpretation of salvation than the Catholic or Protestant interpretation(s).
1. I already googled it.

2. Give me an argument. Spell it out. "You're wrong," is not an argument.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/3/2014 4:25:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/3/2014 3:24:44 PM, tabularasa wrote:
It sounds like you may prescribe a different interpretation of salvation than the Catholic or Protestant interpretation(s).

No, it is a simple statement.

Salvation, as scripture describes it, is the ransom of humanity's right to eternal life.

Adam threw it away and lost his right to eternal life by his diosobedience.

Christ bought it back in potentia by his sacrifice, of a humanm body the same as that of Adam, and his complete obedience to his father's will despite everything that Satan threw at him.

Why "in potentia"?

Because we cannot inherit that right until we also prove faithful, eitehr to death or to th end of this system of things at Armageddon. The moment we show real faith in the power of that sacrifice we are credited with righteousness and our sins up to tat point are forgiven. Those of us who have taken that step, and got baptised by immersion in water are then under permanent judgement, as was Christ, and can all too easily lose that forgiveness again if they fall abck inot their old ways and stay there.

Those who survive Armageddon will be given bodies like Adam's with all the rights to eternal life that he and Eve enjoyed.

The dead, whio died in ignporqnce of God's ways will be resurrected into similar bodies, be taught God's way and givne toiime to practice them, and assist otehrs following them, until the final tst, at whihc all who fail, including Satan and his demons, will be cast into the lake of fire, along with teh death we currently experience and the grave.

There is no return from that second death.

Those who pass the final test will be blessed with teh prospects Adam and Eve threw away.

Eternal life

Eternal peace.

Eternal purposeful work and teh right to gain full enjoyment of everythi8ng God created.

That is the scriptural view of salvation, put as simply as I can.
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
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12/3/2014 6:34:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/3/2014 4:25:28 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/3/2014 3:24:44 PM, tabularasa wrote:
It sounds like you may prescribe a different interpretation of salvation than the Catholic or Protestant interpretation(s).

No, it is a simple statement.

Salvation, as scripture describes it, is the ransom of humanity's right to eternal life.

Adam threw it away and lost his right to eternal life by his diosobedience.

Christ bought it back in potentia by his sacrifice, of a humanm body the same as that of Adam, and his complete obedience to his father's will despite everything that Satan threw at him.

Why "in potentia"?

Because we cannot inherit that right until we also prove faithful, eitehr to death or to th end of this system of things at Armageddon. The moment we show real faith in the power of that sacrifice we are credited with righteousness and our sins up to tat point are forgiven. Those of us who have taken that step, and got baptised by immersion in water are then under permanent judgement, as was Christ, and can all too easily lose that forgiveness again if they fall abck inot their old ways and stay there.

Those who survive Armageddon will be given bodies like Adam's with all the rights to eternal life that he and Eve enjoyed.

The dead, whio died in ignporqnce of God's ways will be resurrected into similar bodies, be taught God's way and givne toiime to practice them, and assist otehrs following them, until the final tst, at whihc all who fail, including Satan and his demons, will be cast into the lake of fire, along with teh death we currently experience and the grave.

There is no return from that second death.

Those who pass the final test will be blessed with teh prospects Adam and Eve threw away.

Eternal life

Eternal peace.

Eternal purposeful work and teh right to gain full enjoyment of everythi8ng God created.

That is the scriptural view of salvation, put as simply as I can.

What sort of simpleton could believe that eternal work could be paradise?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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12/3/2014 6:58:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/3/2014 2:26:04 PM, tabularasa wrote:
I do not believe that Catholic and Protestant beliefs on the action of salvation are too far afield, and thus uncompromising.

I am a Catholic. If I repent, put my faith in Christ, and live according to God's will, then salvation is mine through God's grace. The Bible, the Church, and the Catechism all say that if I am currently in a state of grace, or friendship with God through faith, that I can count on going to heaven should I die today. If I turn my back on God and decide not to believe, salvation MAY not MUST be lost. This is stated with no degree of certainty. Thus, faith in Christ is salvation.

Other denominations teach that by repenting, putting faith in Christ, and living according to God's will, salvation is yours through God's grace.

I do not see a difference, practically and descriptively speaking.

Some debate the message on works (Romans vs. James). The Book of James definitely talks about works. But works do not save us. Grace saves us through faith. Therefore I posit this definition of works: The action of the Holy Spirit leads us to faith. The Spirit then leads us to do God's will out of love for Him and love for the Gospel. Doing God's will is what James referred to when he spoke of works. We cannot decide what God's will is for our life. We cannot impress Him by our good works. We are saved by grace and not works. But we can be led into the way of life God has chosen for us. By doing His will being led moment by moment by the Holy Spirit, we are fulfilling the "works requirement" of James.

Works defined: led by the Spirit, we obey God and do His will through His grace and out of love for Him.

Practically speaking, I believe Catholic christians and Protestant christians live the same spiritual life. The difference is only semantic.

You do not see a difference because you are not saved. If you cannot say with certaintly that you know your sins are forgiven now, past, present, and future, and you cannot say with certainty now that you are going to heaven the very moment when your body is finished in this world, you are not saved.

You are trusting in a religion and your own actions to save you. You are not saved. You need to quit trusting in the catecisms of catholicsim and read your Bible and ask God to show you how you can know now that your sins are forgiven and you are going ot heaven. You don't need the persmission or approval of any Poope or priest to know that your sins are forgiven and you are going to heaven, and Mary can't help you either. Eating a cookie is not recieving Jesus Christ, He is God, He is not a wafer which magically becomes God when the priest blesses it. That's not even a blessing the priest puts on the cookies, it's a lie. You can't bless a cookie and turn it into Jesus. There is no hope in the Pope.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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12/3/2014 7:01:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The resident Jehovah's Witness weighs in to tell us that only those who support the Watchtower are good, hoping they will lift their act of barring him from the Kingdom Halls due to bad behavior.
tabularasa
Posts: 200
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12/3/2014 8:35:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago

You do not see a difference because you are not saved. If you cannot say with certaintly that you know your sins are forgiven now, past, present, and future, and you cannot say with certainty now that you are going to heaven the very moment when your body is finished in this world, you are not saved.

You are trusting in a religion and your own actions to save you. You are not saved. You need to quit trusting in the catecisms of catholicsim and read your Bible and ask God to show you how you can know now that your sins are forgiven and you are going ot heaven. You don't need the persmission or approval of any Poope or priest to know that your sins are forgiven and you are going to heaven, and Mary can't help you either. Eating a cookie is not recieving Jesus Christ, He is God, He is not a wafer which magically becomes God when the priest blesses it. That's not even a blessing the priest puts on the cookies, it's a lie. You can't bless a cookie and turn it into Jesus. There is no hope in the Pope.

Actually I do believe that God will forgive all of my sins, past, present, and future. I have been washed in the blood of the Lamb. If I die today, I believe I am going to heaven (based on the merits of the death and resurrection of Jesus). I believe this because the Bible and the Church both teach this.

Please critique my definition of works and comment on why you believe that I am wrong. Your argument on popes and wafers is off topic. Stay on topic (the action of salvation).
1. I already googled it.

2. Give me an argument. Spell it out. "You're wrong," is not an argument.
tabularasa
Posts: 200
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12/3/2014 11:41:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/3/2014 4:25:28 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/3/2014 3:24:44 PM, tabularasa wrote:
It sounds like you may prescribe a different interpretation of salvation than the Catholic or Protestant interpretation(s).

No, it is a simple statement.

Salvation, as scripture describes it, is the ransom of humanity's right to eternal life.

Adam threw it away and lost his right to eternal life by his diosobedience.

Christ bought it back in potentia by his sacrifice, of a humanm body the same as that of Adam, and his complete obedience to his father's will despite everything that Satan threw at him.

Why "in potentia"?

Because we cannot inherit that right until we also prove faithful, eitehr to death or to th end of this system of things at Armageddon. The moment we show real faith in the power of that sacrifice we are credited with righteousness and our sins up to tat point are forgiven. Those of us who have taken that step, and got baptised by immersion in water are then under permanent judgement, as was Christ, and can all too easily lose that forgiveness again if they fall abck inot their old ways and stay there.

Those who survive Armageddon will be given bodies like Adam's with all the rights to eternal life that he and Eve enjoyed.

The dead, whio died in ignporqnce of God's ways will be resurrected into similar bodies, be taught God's way and givne toiime to practice them, and assist otehrs following them, until the final tst, at whihc all who fail, including Satan and his demons, will be cast into the lake of fire, along with teh death we currently experience and the grave.

There is no return from that second death.

Those who pass the final test will be blessed with teh prospects Adam and Eve threw away.

Eternal life

Eternal peace.

Eternal purposeful work and teh right to gain full enjoyment of everythi8ng God created.

That is the scriptural view of salvation, put as simply as I can.

Okay. I cannot prove or disprove that any perspective on salvation is true. What I am arguing is that Protestant and Catholic views on salvation are the same view, using different words. The experience of salvation remains at its core the same for both.
1. I already googled it.

2. Give me an argument. Spell it out. "You're wrong," is not an argument.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/4/2014 5:17:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/3/2014 8:35:52 PM, tabularasa wrote:

You do not see a difference because you are not saved. If you cannot say with certaintly that you know your sins are forgiven now, past, present, and future, and you cannot say with certainty now that you are going to heaven the very moment when your body is finished in this world, you are not saved.

You are trusting in a religion and your own actions to save you. You are not saved. You need to quit trusting in the catecisms of catholicsim and read your Bible and ask God to show you how you can know now that your sins are forgiven and you are going ot heaven. You don't need the persmission or approval of any Poope or priest to know that your sins are forgiven and you are going to heaven, and Mary can't help you either. Eating a cookie is not recieving Jesus Christ, He is God, He is not a wafer which magically becomes God when the priest blesses it. That's not even a blessing the priest puts on the cookies, it's a lie. You can't bless a cookie and turn it into Jesus. There is no hope in the Pope.


Actually I do believe that God will forgive all of my sins, past, present, and future. I have been washed in the blood of the Lamb. If I die today, I believe I am going to heaven (based on the merits of the death and resurrection of Jesus). I believe this because the Bible and the Church both teach this.

Please critique my definition of works and comment on why you believe that I am wrong. Your argument on popes and wafers is off topic. Stay on topic (the action of salvation).

Your church may teach it, but the bible doesn't.

For one thing the bible does nto teach that all go to eahven, it teaches that onyl a specific number do, and that they go there for a purpose, to rule with Christ.

Rule over what?

Over the cleansed earth populated with humans, most of whom are resurrectede dead, and all of whom have been returned to teh state and prospects thatAdam threw away..

God di not create man to go to ehave, that is flase teachign.

As Genesis 1 & 2 tell us, God created man to live ion the earth, eternally and peacefully, caring for the whole of God's creation, includng each other.

Genesis 3 tells us Satan rebelled and threw a bit of a spanner in teh works, and that God set up a plan to get things back on curse.

The rest of scripture describes the outworking of the plan, rightly crowing over its successes and humbly admitting it's failures along teh way, and Revelation chapters 20-22 tell us of the final cmpletion of that plan, when all is back on it's original course.

That's what the bible really tells us about.

I do not have the hope of going to heaven, nor do I want it. I want either to be an Armageddon survivor, or to get a part in teh earthly resurrection of the dead which is to come, I don;t care which . I don't want to rule anybody, I am happy with teh truly biblical promise of being part of teh original plan and enjoying the company, planet wide, of my fellow man whislt I enjoy all of God's creation to the full, includsing the satisfying work of caring for it all.

There is only one race, the human race, all divisions are artificial, and Satan's doing. Divide and conquer.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/4/2014 5:19:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/3/2014 6:34:22 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/3/2014 4:25:28 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/3/2014 3:24:44 PM, tabularasa wrote:
It sounds like you may prescribe a different interpretation of salvation than the Catholic or Protestant interpretation(s).

No, it is a simple statement.

Salvation, as scripture describes it, is the ransom of humanity's right to eternal life.

Adam threw it away and lost his right to eternal life by his diosobedience.

Christ bought it back in potentia by his sacrifice, of a humanm body the same as that of Adam, and his complete obedience to his father's will despite everything that Satan threw at him.

Why "in potentia"?

Because we cannot inherit that right until we also prove faithful, eitehr to death or to th end of this system of things at Armageddon. The moment we show real faith in the power of that sacrifice we are credited with righteousness and our sins up to tat point are forgiven. Those of us who have taken that step, and got baptised by immersion in water are then under permanent judgement, as was Christ, and can all too easily lose that forgiveness again if they fall abck inot their old ways and stay there.

Those who survive Armageddon will be given bodies like Adam's with all the rights to eternal life that he and Eve enjoyed.

The dead, whio died in ignporqnce of God's ways will be resurrected into similar bodies, be taught God's way and givne toiime to practice them, and assist otehrs following them, until the final tst, at whihc all who fail, including Satan and his demons, will be cast into the lake of fire, along with teh death we currently experience and the grave.

There is no return from that second death.

Those who pass the final test will be blessed with teh prospects Adam and Eve threw away.

Eternal life

Eternal peace.

Eternal purposeful work and teh right to gain full enjoyment of everythi8ng God created.

That is the scriptural view of salvation, put as simply as I can.

What sort of simpleton could believe that eternal work could be paradise?

One who enjoys his work, and doesn't find it arduous, but a pleasure, especially when looking back at the results in his l;eisure time.

I said the work would be eternal and enjoyable as well as fulfilling. I never said we would be at it 24/7/365, lol, that's your invention and typical of the way your mind almost works.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/4/2014 5:22:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/3/2014 7:01:23 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
The resident Jehovah's Witness weighs in to tell us that only those who support the Watchtower are good, hoping they will lift their act of barring him from the Kingdom Halls due to bad behavior.

No that's not why I am doing it, I am doing it because it is God's work. Only those who truly believe his word are good in his eyes, no matter what they think of themselves.

In fact Christ went so far as to say that onyl God is good, he didn't even include himself.

Much as I would like to be able to associate with the Briothers and Sisters again, I am content to wait God's time for that to happen, even if I have to wait until after Armageddon.

I am perfectly content spreading God's truth on ehre, and so maybe that is God's purpose for me at present.
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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12/4/2014 5:43:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/4/2014 5:22:58 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/3/2014 7:01:23 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
The resident Jehovah's Witness weighs in to tell us that only those who support the Watchtower are good, hoping they will lift their act of barring him from the Kingdom Halls due to bad behavior.

No that's not why I am doing it, I am doing it because it is God's work. Only those who truly believe his word are good in his eyes, no matter what they think of themselves.

In fact Christ went so far as to say that onyl God is good, he didn't even include himself.

Much as I would like to be able to associate with the Briothers and Sisters again

Do the "brothers and sisters" all claim that Matthew, Luke, Jesus, and Paul were either mistaken or ignorant, depending upon their fancy at the moment? If not, this may play a role in your current excommunication.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/4/2014 6:14:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/4/2014 5:43:26 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/4/2014 5:22:58 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/3/2014 7:01:23 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
The resident Jehovah's Witness weighs in to tell us that only those who support the Watchtower are good, hoping they will lift their act of barring him from the Kingdom Halls due to bad behavior.

No that's not why I am doing it, I am doing it because it is God's work. Only those who truly believe his word are good in his eyes, no matter what they think of themselves.

In fact Christ went so far as to say that onyl God is good, he didn't even include himself.

Much as I would like to be able to associate with the Briothers and Sisters again

Do the "brothers and sisters" all claim that Matthew, Luke, Jesus, and Paul were either mistaken or ignorant, depending upon their fancy at the moment? If not, this may play a role in your current excommunication.

The Brothers and Sisters all believe what scripture tells them, as do I.

It is you who has proven over and again that you only believe what suits ytou.

SCripture tells us, in Jesus own words, that there were things he did not know.

The Apostles all made statements whcih could not possibly have been literally true , though they bleieved them to be at that time, and neither God nor Christ saw any reaosn to disabuse them.

Why do you find that so difficult to accept when it is clearly laid otu in scripture. Is you man made, Satan inspired doctrine so much mroeimportant than God's word whihc has consitently revealed the mistakes of his popele, from Genesis onwards?

Does the bible's honesty disturb you?

It is God's word, what else should it be but honest?

Only you have anythng to fear from truth, as you well know. God Christ, the JWs and I have nothing to fear from it, even if it provvesd us wrong occassionally.

History has proved that there were many tnings the Apostles did not know,simply because they did not need to know, or on occassions because it was better fot them if they did not.

So what? Inspired they may have been, but infallibility is a Catholic claim, not a scriptural one.
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
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12/4/2014 6:18:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/4/2014 5:17:24 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/3/2014 8:35:52 PM, tabularasa wrote:

You do not see a difference because you are not saved. If you cannot say with certaintly that you know your sins are forgiven now, past, present, and future, and you cannot say with certainty now that you are going to heaven the very moment when your body is finished in this world, you are not saved.

You are trusting in a religion and your own actions to save you. You are not saved. You need to quit trusting in the catecisms of catholicsim and read your Bible and ask God to show you how you can know now that your sins are forgiven and you are going ot heaven. You don't need the persmission or approval of any Poope or priest to know that your sins are forgiven and you are going to heaven, and Mary can't help you either. Eating a cookie is not recieving Jesus Christ, He is God, He is not a wafer which magically becomes God when the priest blesses it. That's not even a blessing the priest puts on the cookies, it's a lie. You can't bless a cookie and turn it into Jesus. There is no hope in the Pope.


Actually I do believe that God will forgive all of my sins, past, present, and future. I have been washed in the blood of the Lamb. If I die today, I believe I am going to heaven (based on the merits of the death and resurrection of Jesus). I believe this because the Bible and the Church both teach this.

Please critique my definition of works and comment on why you believe that I am wrong. Your argument on popes and wafers is off topic. Stay on topic (the action of salvation).

Your church may teach it, but the bible doesn't.
The bible is his church's creation you idiot, why would they have any obligation to teach what you claim are lies anyway.
For one thing the bible does nto teach that all go to eahven, it teaches that onyl a specific number do, and that they go there for a purpose, to rule with Christ.
Some little cult thinks they will be the gestapo of the new earth, what a wanker.
Rule over what?
Precisely you nong.
Over the cleansed earth populated with humans, most of whom are resurrectede dead, and all of whom have been returned to teh state and prospects thatAdam threw away..
What sort of ruling over will simpletons like you need, plant vine eat fig, dig up fig eat grape rinse and repeat. Even dummies like you shouldn't know need overlords for that.
God di not create man to go to ehave, that is flase teachign.
Be careful of flase tecahigns
As Genesis 1 & 2 tell us, God created man to live ion the earth, eternally and peacefully, caring for the whole of God's creation, includng each other.
No it doesn't and even if it did it's a very old folktale.
Genesis 3 tells us Satan rebelled and threw a bit of a spanner in teh works, and that God set up a plan to get things back on curse.
When did satan rebel? I bet you won't answer.
The rest of scripture describes the outworking of the plan, rightly crowing over its successes and humbly admitting it's failures along teh way, and Revelation chapters 20-22 tell us of the final cmpletion of that plan, when all is back on it's original course.
You people claim the failures as success. You have no idea.
That's what the bible really tells us about.
The bible is a story book, with absolutely no value in the real world.
I do not have the hope of going to heaven, nor do I want it. I want either to be an Armageddon survivor, or to get a part in teh earthly resurrection of the dead which is to come, I don;t care which . I don't want to rule anybody, I am happy with teh truly biblical promise of being part of teh original plan and enjoying the company, planet wide, of my fellow man whislt I enjoy all of God's creation to the full, includsing the satisfying work of caring for it all.
Plant that eat that rinse and repeat.
There is only one race, the human race, all divisions are artificial, and Satan's doing. Divide and conquer.
Read your book of fables about a tower.
Dropkick
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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12/4/2014 6:22:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/4/2014 6:14:00 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/4/2014 5:43:26 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/4/2014 5:22:58 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/3/2014 7:01:23 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
The resident Jehovah's Witness weighs in to tell us that only those who support the Watchtower are good, hoping they will lift their act of barring him from the Kingdom Halls due to bad behavior.

No that's not why I am doing it, I am doing it because it is God's work. Only those who truly believe his word are good in his eyes, no matter what they think of themselves.

In fact Christ went so far as to say that onyl God is good, he didn't even include himself.

Much as I would like to be able to associate with the Briothers and Sisters again

Do the "brothers and sisters" all claim that Matthew, Luke, Jesus, and Paul were either mistaken or ignorant, depending upon their fancy at the moment? If not, this may play a role in your current excommunication.

The Brothers and Sisters all believe what scripture tells them, as do I.

It is you who has proven over and again that you only believe what suits ytou.

SCripture tells us, in Jesus own words, that there were things he did not know.

Scripture also tells us, concerning the one thing that it reports Jesus did not know, that he did not know it. That's a far cry from what you claim: you claim He, along with other inspired men, just blurted out false statements when they didn't know. Scripture never states that, does it? Of course not!

Observe the vast difference between the opinion of the accuracy of the OT by the writers of the NT. Did you see them running around, "Oh, Ezekiel was just mistaken", or "Jeremiah was ignorant." No, they didn't talk that way. It remained for later apostates to hold such a dim view of things.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
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12/4/2014 6:23:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/4/2014 5:19:48 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/3/2014 6:34:22 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/3/2014 4:25:28 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/3/2014 3:24:44 PM, tabularasa wrote:
It sounds like you may prescribe a different interpretation of salvation than the Catholic or Protestant interpretation(s).

No, it is a simple statement.

Salvation, as scripture describes it, is the ransom of humanity's right to eternal life.

Adam threw it away and lost his right to eternal life by his diosobedience.

Christ bought it back in potentia by his sacrifice, of a humanm body the same as that of Adam, and his complete obedience to his father's will despite everything that Satan threw at him.

Why "in potentia"?

Because we cannot inherit that right until we also prove faithful, eitehr to death or to th end of this system of things at Armageddon. The moment we show real faith in the power of that sacrifice we are credited with righteousness and our sins up to tat point are forgiven. Those of us who have taken that step, and got baptised by immersion in water are then under permanent judgement, as was Christ, and can all too easily lose that forgiveness again if they fall abck inot their old ways and stay there.

Those who survive Armageddon will be given bodies like Adam's with all the rights to eternal life that he and Eve enjoyed.

The dead, whio died in ignporqnce of God's ways will be resurrected into similar bodies, be taught God's way and givne toiime to practice them, and assist otehrs following them, until the final tst, at whihc all who fail, including Satan and his demons, will be cast into the lake of fire, along with teh death we currently experience and the grave.

There is no return from that second death.

Those who pass the final test will be blessed with teh prospects Adam and Eve threw away.

Eternal life

Eternal peace.

Eternal purposeful work and teh right to gain full enjoyment of everythi8ng God created.

That is the scriptural view of salvation, put as simply as I can.

What sort of simpleton could believe that eternal work could be paradise?

One who enjoys his work, and doesn't find it arduous, but a pleasure, especially when looking back at the results in his l;eisure time.
For eternity you simpleton, an eternity of digging in the ground, you are really the stupidest person to have ever lived.
I said the work would be eternal and enjoyable as well as fulfilling. I never said we would be at it 24/7/365, lol, that's your invention and typical of the way your mind almost works.
An eternity of working you simpleton, what are you going to enjoy you won't travel you won't do anything but get up in the morning dig some holes eat a fig and go to bed.
Rinse and repeat.
Stupid beyond belief.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/4/2014 7:06:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/4/2014 6:23:56 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/4/2014 5:19:48 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/3/2014 6:34:22 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/3/2014 4:25:28 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/3/2014 3:24:44 PM, tabularasa wrote:
It sounds like you may prescribe a different interpretation of salvation than the Catholic or Protestant interpretation(s).

No, it is a simple statement.

Salvation, as scripture describes it, is the ransom of humanity's right to eternal life.

Adam threw it away and lost his right to eternal life by his diosobedience.

Christ bought it back in potentia by his sacrifice, of a humanm body the same as that of Adam, and his complete obedience to his father's will despite everything that Satan threw at him.

Why "in potentia"?

Because we cannot inherit that right until we also prove faithful, eitehr to death or to th end of this system of things at Armageddon. The moment we show real faith in the power of that sacrifice we are credited with righteousness and our sins up to tat point are forgiven. Those of us who have taken that step, and got baptised by immersion in water are then under permanent judgement, as was Christ, and can all too easily lose that forgiveness again if they fall abck inot their old ways and stay there.

Those who survive Armageddon will be given bodies like Adam's with all the rights to eternal life that he and Eve enjoyed.

The dead, whio died in ignporqnce of God's ways will be resurrected into similar bodies, be taught God's way and givne toiime to practice them, and assist otehrs following them, until the final tst, at whihc all who fail, including Satan and his demons, will be cast into the lake of fire, along with teh death we currently experience and the grave.

There is no return from that second death.

Those who pass the final test will be blessed with teh prospects Adam and Eve threw away.

Eternal life

Eternal peace.

Eternal purposeful work and teh right to gain full enjoyment of everythi8ng God created.

That is the scriptural view of salvation, put as simply as I can.

What sort of simpleton could believe that eternal work could be paradise?

One who enjoys his work, and doesn't find it arduous, but a pleasure, especially when looking back at the results in his l;eisure time.
For eternity you simpleton, an eternity of digging in the ground, you are really the stupidest person to have ever lived.
I said the work would be eternal and enjoyable as well as fulfilling. I never said we would be at it 24/7/365, lol, that's your invention and typical of the way your mind almost works.
An eternity of working you simpleton, what are you going to enjoy you won't travel you won't do anything but get up in the morning dig some holes eat a fig and go to bed.
Rinse and repeat.
Stupid beyond belief.

You really are making some stupid unfounded assumptions tehre.

Who says you won;t travel?

Who says you will be working in the same place evall the time?

As you travel you wil simply work alongside those you visit, and enjoy their hospitality when the work is done.

You really ought to engage your brain before you put finger to keyboard, and think.

Work then will be nothing like it is now. Some crops will need re-planting probably, but the curse will have been lifted off teh ground and so it will be more fertile, more productive, so most of teh work will be gathering teh produce not planting it.

I take it you are a city boy, lol. Howe much do you know about smallholding agriculture even today? Very little I suspect.

Ask a gardener with a well established garden how hard they work, and that is with teh curse still on the ground. Many of them spend hour after hour in their gardens for pure pleasure and dopn;t relaly see it as arduous work because they enjoy it.

Oh, you call me dumb, but as you canstatly prove it is you who really is, lol. Dumb, and as a result far to quick to answer questions you haven't really thought about.
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
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12/4/2014 7:33:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/4/2014 7:06:24 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/4/2014 6:23:56 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/4/2014 5:19:48 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/3/2014 6:34:22 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/3/2014 4:25:28 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/3/2014 3:24:44 PM, tabularasa wrote:
It sounds like you may prescribe a different interpretation of salvation than the Catholic or Protestant interpretation(s).

No, it is a simple statement.

Salvation, as scripture describes it, is the ransom of humanity's right to eternal life.

Adam threw it away and lost his right to eternal life by his diosobedience.

Christ bought it back in potentia by his sacrifice, of a humanm body the same as that of Adam, and his complete obedience to his father's will despite everything that Satan threw at him.

Why "in potentia"?

Because we cannot inherit that right until we also prove faithful, eitehr to death or to th end of this system of things at Armageddon. The moment we show real faith in the power of that sacrifice we are credited with righteousness and our sins up to tat point are forgiven. Those of us who have taken that step, and got baptised by immersion in water are then under permanent judgement, as was Christ, and can all too easily lose that forgiveness again if they fall abck inot their old ways and stay there.

Those who survive Armageddon will be given bodies like Adam's with all the rights to eternal life that he and Eve enjoyed.

The dead, whio died in ignporqnce of God's ways will be resurrected into similar bodies, be taught God's way and givne toiime to practice them, and assist otehrs following them, until the final tst, at whihc all who fail, including Satan and his demons, will be cast into the lake of fire, along with teh death we currently experience and the grave.

There is no return from that second death.

Those who pass the final test will be blessed with teh prospects Adam and Eve threw away.

Eternal life

Eternal peace.

Eternal purposeful work and teh right to gain full enjoyment of everythi8ng God created.

That is the scriptural view of salvation, put as simply as I can.

What sort of simpleton could believe that eternal work could be paradise?

One who enjoys his work, and doesn't find it arduous, but a pleasure, especially when looking back at the results in his l;eisure time.
For eternity you simpleton, an eternity of digging in the ground, you are really the stupidest person to have ever lived.
I said the work would be eternal and enjoyable as well as fulfilling. I never said we would be at it 24/7/365, lol, that's your invention and typical of the way your mind almost works.
An eternity of working you simpleton, what are you going to enjoy you won't travel you won't do anything but get up in the morning dig some holes eat a fig and go to bed.
Rinse and repeat.
Stupid beyond belief.

You really are making some stupid unfounded assumptions tehre.
No silly old man they are all yours.
Who says you won;t travel?
Shanks Pony? hahahahahaha
Who says you will be working in the same place evall the time?
I do. You make up stupid stories about a non existent afterlife, so I just do the same back.
As you travel you wil simply work alongside those you visit, and enjoy their hospitality when the work is done.
What about the work your gestapo overlords demand of you while you are walking on your travels. You must work or not eat, those are the rules.
You really ought to engage your brain before you put finger to keyboard, and think.
You, dear old fool, were born without a brain. It's why you post the insane drivel you do.
Work then will be nothing like it is now. Some crops will need re-planting probably, but the curse will have been lifted off teh ground and so it will be more fertile, more productive, so most of teh work will be gathering teh produce not planting it.
Working at the same meaningless, mundane job for eternity. Only a being such as you is stupid enough to look forward to such drudgery.
I take it you are a city boy, lol. Howe much do you know about smallholding agriculture even today? Very little I suspect.
You wouldn't know sh!t from apricot jam, especially about me you pathetic simpleton.
Ask a gardener with a well established garden how hard they work, and that is with teh curse still on the ground. Many of them spend hour after hour in their gardens for pure pleasure and dopn;t relaly see it as arduous work because they enjoy it.
Ask any gardener if he wants to do it every day for eternity. You just keep that hamster running but it doesn't produce a thought.
Oh, you call me dumb, but as you canstatly prove it is you who really is, lol. Dumb, and as a result far to quick to answer questions you haven't really thought about.
Yeah, smart people want to live in drudgery for eternity, NOT.
Only the insanely deluded like you.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/4/2014 8:30:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/4/2014 7:33:19 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/4/2014 7:06:24 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/4/2014 6:23:56 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/4/2014 5:19:48 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/3/2014 6:34:22 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/3/2014 4:25:28 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/3/2014 3:24:44 PM, tabularasa wrote:
It sounds like you may prescribe a different interpretation of salvation than the Catholic or Protestant interpretation(s).

No, it is a simple statement.

Salvation, as scripture describes it, is the ransom of humanity's right to eternal life.

Adam threw it away and lost his right to eternal life by his diosobedience.

Christ bought it back in potentia by his sacrifice, of a humanm body the same as that of Adam, and his complete obedience to his father's will despite everything that Satan threw at him.

Why "in potentia"?

Because we cannot inherit that right until we also prove faithful, eitehr to death or to th end of this system of things at Armageddon. The moment we show real faith in the power of that sacrifice we are credited with righteousness and our sins up to tat point are forgiven. Those of us who have taken that step, and got baptised by immersion in water are then under permanent judgement, as was Christ, and can all too easily lose that forgiveness again if they fall abck inot their old ways and stay there.

Those who survive Armageddon will be given bodies like Adam's with all the rights to eternal life that he and Eve enjoyed.

The dead, whio died in ignporqnce of God's ways will be resurrected into similar bodies, be taught God's way and givne toiime to practice them, and assist otehrs following them, until the final tst, at whihc all who fail, including Satan and his demons, will be cast into the lake of fire, along with teh death we currently experience and the grave.

There is no return from that second death.

Those who pass the final test will be blessed with teh prospects Adam and Eve threw away.

Eternal life

Eternal peace.

Eternal purposeful work and teh right to gain full enjoyment of everythi8ng God created.

That is the scriptural view of salvation, put as simply as I can.

What sort of simpleton could believe that eternal work could be paradise?

One who enjoys his work, and doesn't find it arduous, but a pleasure, especially when looking back at the results in his l;eisure time.
For eternity you simpleton, an eternity of digging in the ground, you are really the stupidest person to have ever lived.
I said the work would be eternal and enjoyable as well as fulfilling. I never said we would be at it 24/7/365, lol, that's your invention and typical of the way your mind almost works.
An eternity of working you simpleton, what are you going to enjoy you won't travel you won't do anything but get up in the morning dig some holes eat a fig and go to bed.
Rinse and repeat.
Stupid beyond belief.

You really are making some stupid unfounded assumptions tehre.
No silly old man they are all yours.
Who says you won;t travel?
Shanks Pony? hahahahahaha
Who says you will be working in the same place evall the time?
I do. You make up stupid stories about a non existent afterlife, so I just do the same back.
As you travel you wil simply work alongside those you visit, and enjoy their hospitality when the work is done.
What about the work your gestapo overlords demand of you while you are walking on your travels. You must work or not eat, those are the rules.
You really ought to engage your brain before you put finger to keyboard, and think.
You, dear old fool, were born without a brain. It's why you post the insane drivel you do.
Work then will be nothing like it is now. Some crops will need re-planting probably, but the curse will have been lifted off teh ground and so it will be more fertile, more productive, so most of teh work will be gathering teh produce not planting it.
Working at the same meaningless, mundane job for eternity. Only a being such as you is stupid enough to look forward to such drudgery.
I take it you are a city boy, lol. Howe much do you know about smallholding agriculture even today? Very little I suspect.
You wouldn't know sh!t from apricot jam, especially about me you pathetic simpleton.
Ask a gardener with a well established garden how hard they work, and that is with teh curse still on the ground. Many of them spend hour after hour in their gardens for pure pleasure and dopn;t relaly see it as arduous work because they enjoy it.
Ask any gardener if he wants to do it every day for eternity. You just keep that hamster running but it doesn't produce a thought.
Oh, you call me dumb, but as you canstatly prove it is you who really is, lol. Dumb, and as a result far to quick to answer questions you haven't really thought about.
Yeah, smart people want to live in drudgery for eternity, NOT.
Only the insanely deluded like you.

The point being that it won't be drugery, work can be a pleasure, it isn't always seen as a 4 letter word.
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
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12/4/2014 8:45:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/4/2014 6:18:34 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/4/2014 5:17:24 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/3/2014 8:35:52 PM, tabularasa wrote:

You do not see a difference because you are not saved. If you cannot say with certaintly that you know your sins are forgiven now, past, present, and future, and you cannot say with certainty now that you are going to heaven the very moment when your body is finished in this world, you are not saved.

You are trusting in a religion and your own actions to save you. You are not saved. You need to quit trusting in the catecisms of catholicsim and read your Bible and ask God to show you how you can know now that your sins are forgiven and you are going ot heaven. You don't need the persmission or approval of any Poope or priest to know that your sins are forgiven and you are going to heaven, and Mary can't help you either. Eating a cookie is not recieving Jesus Christ, He is God, He is not a wafer which magically becomes God when the priest blesses it. That's not even a blessing the priest puts on the cookies, it's a lie. You can't bless a cookie and turn it into Jesus. There is no hope in the Pope.


Actually I do believe that God will forgive all of my sins, past, present, and future. I have been washed in the blood of the Lamb. If I die today, I believe I am going to heaven (based on the merits of the death and resurrection of Jesus). I believe this because the Bible and the Church both teach this.

Please critique my definition of works and comment on why you believe that I am wrong. Your argument on popes and wafers is off topic. Stay on topic (the action of salvation).

Your church may teach it, but the bible doesn't.
The bible is his church's creation you idiot, why would they have any obligation to teach what you claim are lies anyway.
For one thing the bible does nto teach that all go to eahven, it teaches that onyl a specific number do, and that they go there for a purpose, to rule with Christ.
Some little cult thinks they will be the gestapo of the new earth, what a wanker.
Rule over what?
Precisely you nong.
Over the cleansed earth populated with humans, most of whom are resurrectede dead, and all of whom have been returned to teh state and prospects thatAdam threw away..
What sort of ruling over will simpletons like you need, plant vine eat fig, dig up fig eat grape rinse and repeat. Even dummies like you shouldn't know need overlords for that.
God di not create man to go to ehave, that is flase teachign.
Be careful of flase tecahigns
As Genesis 1 & 2 tell us, God created man to live ion the earth, eternally and peacefully, caring for the whole of God's creation, includng each other.
No it doesn't and even if it did it's a very old folktale.
Genesis 3 tells us Satan rebelled and threw a bit of a spanner in teh works, and that God set up a plan to get things back on curse.
When did satan rebel? I bet you won't answer.
The rest of scripture describes the outworking of the plan, rightly crowing over its successes and humbly admitting it's failures along teh way, and Revelation chapters 20-22 tell us of the final cmpletion of that plan, when all is back on it's original course.
You people claim the failures as success. You have no idea.
That's what the bible really tells us about.
The bible is a story book, with absolutely no value in the real world.
I do not have the hope of going to heaven, nor do I want it. I want either to be an Armageddon survivor, or to get a part in teh earthly resurrection of the dead which is to come, I don;t care which . I don't want to rule anybody, I am happy with teh truly biblical promise of being part of teh original plan and enjoying the company, planet wide, of my fellow man whislt I enjoy all of God's creation to the full, includsing the satisfying work of caring for it all.
Plant that eat that rinse and repeat.
There is only one race, the human race, all divisions are artificial, and Satan's doing. Divide and conquer.
Read your book of fables about a tower.
Dropkick

You are obviously to afraid to respond to anything else written, but how about responding to the highlighted since you brought it up.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
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12/4/2014 8:48:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/4/2014 8:30:41 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/4/2014 7:33:19 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/4/2014 7:06:24 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/4/2014 6:23:56 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/4/2014 5:19:48 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/3/2014 6:34:22 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/3/2014 4:25:28 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/3/2014 3:24:44 PM, tabularasa wrote:
It sounds like you may prescribe a different interpretation of salvation than the Catholic or Protestant interpretation(s).

No, it is a simple statement.

Salvation, as scripture describes it, is the ransom of humanity's right to eternal life.

Adam threw it away and lost his right to eternal life by his diosobedience.

Christ bought it back in potentia by his sacrifice, of a humanm body the same as that of Adam, and his complete obedience to his father's will despite everything that Satan threw at him.

Why "in potentia"?

Because we cannot inherit that right until we also prove faithful, eitehr to death or to th end of this system of things at Armageddon. The moment we show real faith in the power of that sacrifice we are credited with righteousness and our sins up to tat point are forgiven. Those of us who have taken that step, and got baptised by immersion in water are then under permanent judgement, as was Christ, and can all too easily lose that forgiveness again if they fall abck inot their old ways and stay there.

Those who survive Armageddon will be given bodies like Adam's with all the rights to eternal life that he and Eve enjoyed.

The dead, whio died in ignporqnce of God's ways will be resurrected into similar bodies, be taught God's way and givne toiime to practice them, and assist otehrs following them, until the final tst, at whihc all who fail, including Satan and his demons, will be cast into the lake of fire, along with teh death we currently experience and the grave.

There is no return from that second death.

Those who pass the final test will be blessed with teh prospects Adam and Eve threw away.

Eternal life

Eternal peace.

Eternal purposeful work and teh right to gain full enjoyment of everythi8ng God created.

That is the scriptural view of salvation, put as simply as I can.

What sort of simpleton could believe that eternal work could be paradise?

One who enjoys his work, and doesn't find it arduous, but a pleasure, especially when looking back at the results in his l;eisure time.
For eternity you simpleton, an eternity of digging in the ground, you are really the stupidest person to have ever lived.
I said the work would be eternal and enjoyable as well as fulfilling. I never said we would be at it 24/7/365, lol, that's your invention and typical of the way your mind almost works.
An eternity of working you simpleton, what are you going to enjoy you won't travel you won't do anything but get up in the morning dig some holes eat a fig and go to bed.
Rinse and repeat.
Stupid beyond belief.

You really are making some stupid unfounded assumptions tehre.
No silly old man they are all yours.
Who says you won;t travel?
Shanks Pony? hahahahahaha
Who says you will be working in the same place evall the time?
I do. You make up stupid stories about a non existent afterlife, so I just do the same back.
As you travel you wil simply work alongside those you visit, and enjoy their hospitality when the work is done.
What about the work your gestapo overlords demand of you while you are walking on your travels. You must work or not eat, those are the rules.
You really ought to engage your brain before you put finger to keyboard, and think.
You, dear old fool, were born without a brain. It's why you post the insane drivel you do.
Work then will be nothing like it is now. Some crops will need re-planting probably, but the curse will have been lifted off teh ground and so it will be more fertile, more productive, so most of teh work will be gathering teh produce not planting it.
Working at the same meaningless, mundane job for eternity. Only a being such as you is stupid enough to look forward to such drudgery.
I take it you are a city boy, lol. Howe much do you know about smallholding agriculture even today? Very little I suspect.
You wouldn't know sh!t from apricot jam, especially about me you pathetic simpleton.
Ask a gardener with a well established garden how hard they work, and that is with teh curse still on the ground. Many of them spend hour after hour in their gardens for pure pleasure and dopn;t relaly see it as arduous work because they enjoy it.
Ask any gardener if he wants to do it every day for eternity. You just keep that hamster running but it doesn't produce a thought.
Oh, you call me dumb, but as you canstatly prove it is you who really is, lol. Dumb, and as a result far to quick to answer questions you haven't really thought about.
Yeah, smart people want to live in drudgery for eternity, NOT.
Only the insanely deluded like you.

The point being that it won't be drugery, work can be a pleasure, it isn't always seen as a 4 letter word.

How about you respond to what I said instead of running away with your tail between your legs.

It's for fukin' ETERNITY, you subhuman proof that intelligent design is a LIE.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/4/2014 9:00:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/4/2014 8:48:28 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/4/2014 8:30:41 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/4/2014 7:33:19 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/4/2014 7:06:24 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/4/2014 6:23:56 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/4/2014 5:19:48 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/3/2014 6:34:22 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/3/2014 4:25:28 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/3/2014 3:24:44 PM, tabularasa wrote:
It sounds like you may prescribe a different interpretation of salvation than the Catholic or Protestant interpretation(s).

No, it is a simple statement.

Salvation, as scripture describes it, is the ransom of humanity's right to eternal life.

Adam threw it away and lost his right to eternal life by his diosobedience.

Christ bought it back in potentia by his sacrifice, of a humanm body the same as that of Adam, and his complete obedience to his father's will despite everything that Satan threw at him.

Why "in potentia"?

Because we cannot inherit that right until we also prove faithful, eitehr to death or to th end of this system of things at Armageddon. The moment we show real faith in the power of that sacrifice we are credited with righteousness and our sins up to tat point are forgiven. Those of us who have taken that step, and got baptised by immersion in water are then under permanent judgement, as was Christ, and can all too easily lose that forgiveness again if they fall abck inot their old ways and stay there.

Those who survive Armageddon will be given bodies like Adam's with all the rights to eternal life that he and Eve enjoyed.

The dead, whio died in ignporqnce of God's ways will be resurrected into similar bodies, be taught God's way and givne toiime to practice them, and assist otehrs following them, until the final tst, at whihc all who fail, including Satan and his demons, will be cast into the lake of fire, along with teh death we currently experience and the grave.

There is no return from that second death.

Those who pass the final test will be blessed with teh prospects Adam and Eve threw away.

Eternal life

Eternal peace.

Eternal purposeful work and teh right to gain full enjoyment of everythi8ng God created.

That is the scriptural view of salvation, put as simply as I can.

What sort of simpleton could believe that eternal work could be paradise?

One who enjoys his work, and doesn't find it arduous, but a pleasure, especially when looking back at the results in his l;eisure time.
For eternity you simpleton, an eternity of digging in the ground, you are really the stupidest person to have ever lived.
I said the work would be eternal and enjoyable as well as fulfilling. I never said we would be at it 24/7/365, lol, that's your invention and typical of the way your mind almost works.
An eternity of working you simpleton, what are you going to enjoy you won't travel you won't do anything but get up in the morning dig some holes eat a fig and go to bed.
Rinse and repeat.
Stupid beyond belief.

You really are making some stupid unfounded assumptions tehre.
No silly old man they are all yours.
Who says you won;t travel?
Shanks Pony? hahahahahaha
Who says you will be working in the same place evall the time?
I do. You make up stupid stories about a non existent afterlife, so I just do the same back.
As you travel you wil simply work alongside those you visit, and enjoy their hospitality when the work is done.
What about the work your gestapo overlords demand of you while you are walking on your travels. You must work or not eat, those are the rules.
You really ought to engage your brain before you put finger to keyboard, and think.
You, dear old fool, were born without a brain. It's why you post the insane drivel you do.
Work then will be nothing like it is now. Some crops will need re-planting probably, but the curse will have been lifted off teh ground and so it will be more fertile, more productive, so most of teh work will be gathering teh produce not planting it.
Working at the same meaningless, mundane job for eternity. Only a being such as you is stupid enough to look forward to such drudgery.
I take it you are a city boy, lol. Howe much do you know about smallholding agriculture even today? Very little I suspect.
You wouldn't know sh!t from apricot jam, especially about me you pathetic simpleton.
Ask a gardener with a well established garden how hard they work, and that is with teh curse still on the ground. Many of them spend hour after hour in their gardens for pure pleasure and dopn;t relaly see it as arduous work because they enjoy it.
Ask any gardener if he wants to do it every day for eternity. You just keep that hamster running but it doesn't produce a thought.
Oh, you call me dumb, but as you canstatly prove it is you who really is, lol. Dumb, and as a result far to quick to answer questions you haven't really thought about.
Yeah, smart people want to live in drudgery for eternity, NOT.
Only the insanely deluded like you.

The point being that it won't be drugery, work can be a pleasure, it isn't always seen as a 4 letter word.

How about you respond to what I said instead of running away with your tail between your legs.

It's for fukin' ETERNITY, you subhuman proof that intelligent design is a LIE.

No, what is does do is prove what a determined and deliberate liar you are, lol.
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12/4/2014 11:25:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
thread hijacked. i guess i better get used to it.
1. I already googled it.

2. Give me an argument. Spell it out. "You're wrong," is not an argument.