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The Star of Bethlehem.

Gentorev
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12/5/2014 11:02:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Knowing that Herod died in April of 4 BC and he had ordered the death of all the innocents who were two years and under and knowing that Mary was born in 20 BC, and that she would had to have been at least 14 years old when she gave birth to her first born son Jesus, this would mean that he was born around 6 BC.

Was there any significant heavenly phenomenon at that time, which would lead the wise men to believe that here was the sign that was to herald the birth of the Saviour of Israel?
Beastt
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12/5/2014 11:11:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/5/2014 11:02:08 PM, Gentorev wrote:
Knowing that Herod died in April of 4 BC and he had ordered the death of all the innocents who were two years and under and knowing that Mary was born in 20 BC, and that she would had to have been at least 14 years old when she gave birth to her first born son Jesus, this would mean that he was born around 6 BC.

Was there any significant heavenly phenomenon at that time, which would lead the wise men to believe that here was the sign that was to herald the birth of the Saviour of Israel?

The suggested Massacre of the Innocents under King Herod is a religious myth. Flavius Josephus compiled a meticulous work he referred to as "The Sins of Herod" and there is no mention of this supposed slaughter of male children 2-years an under, nor is there any mention of it in any historical document of the time. So attempting to use the claims of the Bible to date when Jesus was born is a fallacious methodology. Add to that the fact that the supposed taxing of the world under Cesar is also an event undocumented by any contemporaneous historian, and we have yet another failure of the Bible to provide reliable information, rather than more religious fiction.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Mhykiel
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12/5/2014 11:14:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/5/2014 11:02:08 PM, Gentorev wrote:
Knowing that Herod died in April of 4 BC and he had ordered the death of all the innocents who were two years and under and knowing that Mary was born in 20 BC, and that she would had to have been at least 14 years old when she gave birth to her first born son Jesus, this would mean that he was born around 6 BC.

Was there any significant heavenly phenomenon at that time, which would lead the wise men to believe that here was the sign that was to herald the birth of the Saviour of Israel?

http://newsinfo.iu.edu...

I've read similar ideas. Some claim the conjunction of two planets which make them brighter occurred. Especially the planets associated with ruler ship like Jupiter or in the constellation of Leo.
Gentorev
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12/5/2014 11:44:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/5/2014 11:14:06 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 12/5/2014 11:02:08 PM, Gentorev wrote:
Knowing that Herod died in April of 4 BC and he had ordered the death of all the innocents who were two years and under and knowing that Mary was born in 20 BC, and that she would had to have been at least 14 years old when she gave birth to her first born son Jesus, this would mean that he was born around 6 BC.

Was there any significant heavenly phenomenon at that time, which would lead the wise men to believe that here was the sign that was to herald the birth of the Saviour of Israel?

http://newsinfo.iu.edu...

I've read similar ideas. Some claim the conjunction of two planets which make them brighter occurred. Especially the planets associated with ruler ship like Jupiter or in the constellation of Leo.

"Astronomy, Astrology, and the Star of Bethlehem." BY John Clevenger of the Lake Country Astronomical Society," which says as follows, "Did any unusual astronomical phenomenon occur between 8 and 2 BC? As it happens there were several notable celestial events during that period. The Chinese reported two comets during that time. The comet of 5 BC which was visible for 70 days, was reported to have a tail. Professor Humphreys of Cambridge University believes that this comet, which he describes as having a vertical tail, appeared at the time of the Jewish Passover. Professor Humpherys believed that this started the Magi, who were knowledgeable of the Jewish prophecy recorded in the book of Micah, concerning the birth of a Jewish king, on their journey.

The supposed comet of 4 BC, the year of Herod"s death, had no tail and whether it was a comet or a nova, which is the death of a star, is unknown. While historians have usually suggested that comets were always bad omens. Humphreys believes that history shows them to be either good or bad omens.

I could also use any of a number of authorities to supply evidence of the triple conjunction between Jupiter, and the planet "Saturn," in 7 BC and then in 6 BC, the conjunction of the "King Planet" Jupiter, with Mars, the god of war, and "Saturn the god of time, who brings the golden age of peace to the earth, which I believe was read by the wise men as the sign that was prophesied to herald the birth of the promised King of Israel, who was to succeed to the throne of David [Jupiter the King planet] as the prophesied Messianic King of Israel, who is to come and subdue the surrounding Nations, "The Warrior King," [Mars, the God of war] and bring in the golden Age of one thousand years of peace, [Saturn the God of time.]

Although I believe that it was the triple conjunction of 6BC, which had heralded the birth of Jesus, I would agree with professor Humpherys that it was the comet of 5 BC, which started the wise men, who are believed to have been astronomer/astrologers from Mesopotamia, on their journey to Jerusalem.

All short period comets, which appear every 200 years or less, have their aphelia in the orbit of Jupiter, as it is the mass of Jupiter that captures them and slings them in toward our sun. This new star which appeared to be coming out of the King Star [Jupiter] would have clinched it for the wise men, reinforcing their belief that the new warrior King of Israel, who was prophesied to bring all the surrounding nations into subjection and bring in a thousand years of peace, had been born.

Numbers 24: 15-19; "A King like a bright star, will arise in that Nation. Like a comet he will come from Israel. He will strike the leaders of Moab and beat down all the people of Seth. He will conquer his enemies in Edom and make their land his possession. While Israel continues victorious. The Nation of Israel will trample them down and wipe out the last survivors.
dee-em
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12/6/2014 12:43:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/5/2014 11:02:08 PM, Gentorev wrote:
Knowing that Herod died in April of 4 BC and he had ordered the death of all the innocents who were two years and under and knowing that Mary was born in 20 BC, and that she would had to have been at least 14 years old when she gave birth to her first born son Jesus, this would mean that he was born around 6 BC.

Was there any significant heavenly phenomenon at that time, which would lead the wise men to believe that here was the sign that was to herald the birth of the Saviour of Israel?

Not according to the Archbidhop of Canterbury:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

Dr Rowan Williams yesterday debunked a large part of the Christmas story as a myth.
During an interview on Radio Five, the Archbishop of Canterbury dismissed the well-known version of events as legend saying: "Matthew's Gospel doesn't tell us there were three of them, doesn't tell us they were kings, doesn't tell us where they came from.
"It says they are astrologers, wise men, priests from somewhere outside the Roman Empire, that's all we're really told."
Turning to the topic of when Jesus was born, he said it was 'very unlikely'that there was snow.
He said there was no evidence of animals present - a popular theme of Christmas cards.
He dismissed the idea that the star of the North stood still in the night sky - because stars just don't behave like that.
For good measure, he added Jesus probably wasn't even born in December. He said: "Christmas was when it was because it fitted well with the winter festival".
Composer
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12/6/2014 12:57:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Yes it's just another Story book MYTH!

Roman Catholic biblical scholar Raymond E. Brown in The Birth of the Messiah lists several reasons he does not believe the biblical account, including the fact that such a bright star would have been mentioned by others, but despite fairly good astrological records it is mentioned nowhere. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

(My Ref: #3: ) Some critics wonder why "the star" led the Magi first to a hostile enemy of Jesus, and only then to the child's location"the argument being that if this was an event from God, it makes no sense for them to be led to a ruler with intentions to kill the child before taking them to Jesus. Indeed, if due to the activity of this star, or the visit from the Magi, motivated Herod to want to seek out Jesus and destroy him (Mathew 2:13), why would God, knowing this, set up a situation that would lead to a slaughter of innocents two years old and under? These lingering questions cause some scholars to be skeptical about the story of the Magi. (Source: http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org...)

Not only that, as I said earlier - IF such a phenomenon had taken place, many Jewish witnesses would have observed it and notified the Jewish authorities if they had somehow allegedly missed seeing it themselves.
Gentorev
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12/6/2014 1:33:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/6/2014 12:43:54 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 12/5/2014 11:02:08 PM, Gentorev wrote:
Knowing that Herod died in April of 4 BC and he had ordered the death of all the innocents who were two years and under and knowing that Mary was born in 20 BC, and that she would had to have been at least 14 years old when she gave birth to her first born son Jesus, this would mean that he was born around 6 BC.

Was there any significant heavenly phenomenon at that time, which would lead the wise men to believe that here was the sign that was to herald the birth of the Saviour of Israel?

Not according to the Archbidhop of Canterbury:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

Dr Rowan Williams yesterday debunked a large part of the Christmas story as a myth.
During an interview on Radio Five, the Archbishop of Canterbury dismissed the well-known version of events as legend saying: "Matthew's Gospel doesn't tell us there were three of them, doesn't tell us they were kings, doesn't tell us where they came from.
"It says they are astrologers, wise men, priests from somewhere outside the Roman Empire, that's all we're really told."
Turning to the topic of when Jesus was born, he said it was 'very unlikely'that there was snow.
He said there was no evidence of animals present - a popular theme of Christmas cards.
He dismissed the idea that the star of the North stood still in the night sky - because stars just don't behave like that.
For good measure, he added Jesus probably wasn't even born in December. He said: "Christmas was when it was because it fitted well with the winter festival".


Neither you or I give a damn as to what the Archbishop of Canterbury has to say on the subject.

Let's forget about the stories that were handed down by Helena the mother of Emperor Constantine and which are believed by the gullible people who belong to the universal church of Constantine and all her affiliated religious bodies. They even believe in a virgin birth which is totally foreign to the holy Scriptures.

Jesus was not born in December, the bible says that there were shepherds in the fields that night, and you will find no shepherds out in the field in the middle of winter.

The star in the north which stood over the house, (Not the manger in which Jesus was born) was a comet with a vertical tail, and the term "STOOD OVER" in ancient literature, refers to comets and comets only. And if you don't believe that comets behave in the way described in the bible, then you should google up the photo taken By Joe Raoas in early January 19. 2007 of the McNaught comet sitting low to the horizon with its tail streaming off into the heavens and appearing to stand over a small village.

And there is nothing in God's word about animals being present at the birth of Jesus, nor were the wise men there at that time, they appeared over a year later according to the biblical account.

Biblically, the wise men who came from the east and are thought to have been astronomer/astrologers from Mesopotamia, are not called kings, nor does the bible give the number of the wise men from the east. The fact that they brought the three gifts of GOLD, INCENSE< and MYRRH, seems to be the reason that it is believed that there were three wise men.

Just because the church of Emperor Constantine teaches a heap of rubbish that cannot and is not substantiated by the scriptures, does not nullify the truths that are to be found therein.
Gentorev
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12/6/2014 1:54:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Nowhere is it said in scripture that any star guided the wise men who were believed to be Astronomer, Astrologers from Mesopotamia, from the land of Mesopotamia to Jerusalem in Judaea.

Having witnessed in 6 BC, the conjunction of the "King Planet" Jupiter, with Mars, the god of war, and "Saturn the god of time, who brings in the golden age of peace to the earth," which I believe was the star that had heralded the birth of Jesus, because it appeared two years before the death of Herod the Great in April of 4 BC, and as two years and below, was the age of the children that Herod commanded to be slaughtered just before his death, which age was in accordance with what he had learned from the wise men as to the exact time that they had seen the star that had heralded the birth of Jesus, which had to be around 6 BC.

Matthew 2: 7; So Herod called the visitors called the visitors from the east to a secret meeting and found out from them the exact time the star (That had heralded the birth of Jesus) appeared.

Matthew 2: 16; When Herod realised that the visitors from the east had tricked him, he was furious. He gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its neighbour-hood, who were two years old and younger--this was done in accordance with what he had learned from the visitors about the time when the star first appeared.

I believe that the Bible should only be interpreted by the scriptures themselves. The Books of the Bible are like wheels of interlocking cogs, wheels within wheels, here a little and there a little etc.

Luke tells us that Mary gave birth to her firstborn son in the town of Bethlehem of Judea, as opposed to the Bethlehem of Galilee, which town was later named "Beitlahm" which was about two miles from Nazareth in Galilee, and that eight days after the child was born, it was circumcised and named Jesus. Then thirty three days later, [See Luke 2: 22;] "The time came according to the law of Moses for Mary to perform the ceremony of purification" and before the wise men from the east had come and lavished their gifts of Gold, Frank-incense and myrrh, the baby Jesus was taken OPENLY to the temple in Jerusalem [no slaughter of the innocents as yet] by his not so financial parents, where his mother performed the purification ceremony according to the law handed down through Moses.

And after they had completed everything in ACCORDANCE TO THE LAW, they returned to their home in Nazareth. Luke makes no mention of any wise men travelling to Bethlehem of Judaea, or of any slaughter of the innocents.

How do we know, even though it is not mentioned in Luke, that it was thirty three days after the circumcision that the ceremony of purification was performed? Because Luke says, "And when the days of her purification ACCORDING TO THE LAW OF MOSES were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord.

To find out when the days of her purification according to the Law of Moses were accomplished, We simply turn to Leviticus 12: 3-4; and let the Bible reveal itself to us: (3) On the eighth day the child shall be circumcised. (4) Then it shall be 33 more days until she is ritually clean from her loss of blood; etc.

How do we know that the parents of Jesus were not flushed financially? Again, we must let the Bible reveal that to us, Leviticus 12: 8, "If the woman cannot afford a lamb, she shall bring two doves or pigeons etc," the fact that the birds were offered, shows that they were unable to afford a lamb, and had not yet received the gifts of Gold, etc.

How long was it before the wise men, after seeing the comet of 5 BC, which is believed to have been the inspiration for them to travel to Jerusalem, decided that they should go to pay homage to the heir of that throne, and to organize that trip? And how long did it take them to travel from Mesopotamia to Jerusalem?

The only help that we receive from the Bible is found in Ezra 7: 8-9; "They (Ezra and his group) left Babylonia on the first day of the first month, and with God"s help they arrived in Jerusalem on the first day of the fifth month."

Four months, it took them to travel to Jerusalem. Even if we halve that time and take into account that the comet which inspired them to travel to Jerusalem had not appeared until some months after the conjunction of 6 BC, which had heralded the birth of Jesus, there is no possible way that the wise men could have seen the baby Jesus in the manger in Bethlehem of Judaea.

Travelling presumably, across the "Kings Highway" to Jerusalem to pay homage to the new King, they went to the palace of Herod the Great, the then current ruler of Israel, expecting to find there, the young child whose birth had been heralded by the heavenly sign of 6 BC, the young child that they believed was the Messianic heir to the throne of David, and they asked, "where is the child that has been born to be King of the Jews."

After receiving verification from his priests that the prophesied King was to be born in Bethlehem of Judaea, we read in Matthew 2:7; "So Herod then called the visitors from the East to a SECRET meeting and enquired of them the EXACT time that they had first seen the star," which had heralded the birth of the long awaited king and savour, and it was in accordance with the information he received from the wise men, that he determined the age of the children who were to be slaughtered, ""all the males who were two years of age and below."

Having been told that the child was to be born in Bethlehem of Judea, [See Mathew 2: 9- 10] "The wise men left the palace and the star that they believed was the comet of 5 BC appeared once again, and how happy they were, Oh what joy was theirs." Revealing that the original star that they had seen while in the east had disappeared, and it was [THIS STAR] which the wise men believed was the original star that they had seen while in the East that guided the wise men, not to Bethlehem of Judaea in the south, but to Nazareth of Galilee to the north, which is just 2 miles from the northern city of Bethlehem, which today, is called "Beitlahm."

Non-periodic comets (or long-period comets) are comets that do not have confirmed observations at more than one perihelion passage, and thus generally have orbital periods of 200 years or more. They include single-apparition comets that pass through the Inner Solar System only once. They are on unstable near-parabolic orbits that will not return to the vicinity of the Sun for hundreds, thousands, or even millions of years " if ever.

Having witnessed the comet of 5 BC, which was said to have a vertical tail, fading into the distance getting smaller and smaller until it vanished in its return to the outer reaches of the solar system, and knowing that it would have long disappeared before they reached Jerusalem, we can only assume that this was another much smaller comet, low to the horizon to the North of Jerusalem, perhaps a non-periodic, or long period comet that would not appear in our solar system again, for thousands, or millions of years, if ever.

A small insignificant comet, way off in the distance, which would have gone un-noticed by the casual observer, but seen in the northern sky, low to the horizon by the wise men who believed it to be the same fading comet of 5 BC.

We can almost picture the scene, the wise men with their entourage travelling toward the direction of the comet along the dusty roads of northern Israel, it is late in the day and as they come to a rise, there, just above the distant horizon, in the deepening darkness of the evening sky, is the star with its fading tail streaming up into the heavens and appearing to stand over the small and insignificant hamlet of " Nazareth."
Gentorev
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12/6/2014 2:00:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
The term "Stood Over" in ancient literature refers to comets and comets only. And we are told that the star "STOOD OVER" the HOUSE (Not the manger in Bethlehem of Judaea in which Jesus the baby had been born) and it was in the house to which the family had returned after the ceremony of purification had been performed, in which the wise men found Mary with her child, who by then was well over 12 months old.
That night, the wise men, who would have travelled to Jerusalem across the Kings Highway, were warned in a dream not to reveal to Herod the child"s whereabouts, and they returned home by a different route from which they had come, which presumably, would have been up through the northern route of Damascus, and Joseph was also warned to get out of bed immediately and take the child and his mother and flee into Egypt.

Herod"s secret police had eyes and ears throughout the entire land, and when he realised that he had been tricked and the wise men were not going to return and reveal the child"s location as promised, he was furious and gave the order to kill all the male children in the district around Bethlehem of Galilee that Herod's spies would have confirmed that the wise men with their entourage had travelled to.

Matthew 2: 16; "Herod gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its surrounding districts who were two years of age and below-----This was done in accordance with what he learned from the visitors about the time when the star first appeared."

According to Josephus the historian, Sepphoris, which is only about 4 miles from Bethlehem of Galilee, now called Beitlahm, and a few kilometers from Nazareth, had a population of around thirty thousand and he called it, "The Ornament of Galilee."
The nova of 4BC, which presumably, was the death of the star recorded in Chinese history, was around the time of Herod"s death in the spring of 4BC, just after he had ordered the death of the innocents around the district of Bethlehem of Galilee.

At that time, there were riots among the peasants of the area in Galilee of which Sepphoris was the centre. Judas, the son of Hezekias attacked the arsenal of Herod in the city of Sepphoris in order to arm the peasants.

The Romans under Quintillius Varus of Syria, attacked and burnt the city, putting down the uprising in which many families died and others were taken prisoner and transported to Rome, where they were sold as slaves. But Joseph, with his wife and her child had escaped the slaughter by fleeing into Egypt.

After a failed suicide attempt, which I believe may have been an option given to him by Caesar Augustus, in the spring of 4 BC, Herod the Great died. Then in the spring of 3 B.C., after the death of Herod his father, when Antipas returned from Rome where his father"s will was ratified by Augustus, he chose and rebuilt the magnificent city of Sepphoris as his capital city for ruling over Galilee.

But there are those who are not interested in the truth as revealed in the bible and they might prefer to believe the stories of Helena the mother of Emperor Constantine.
dee-em
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12/6/2014 2:40:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Are you Christians all completely mad?

A star cannot hang over a house. A comet cannot hang over a house. Conjunctions of planets are quite common and unexceptional, the planetary objects are only very rarely so close that they cannot be separated by the naked eye, and again, a conjunction of planets cannot hang over a house. All these natural phenomena have apparent movement as the Earth rotates.

In each case, anyone directly under such a phenomenon in the night sky would have people for hundreds of miles in every direction who would be experiencing exactly the same thing given the distances involved.

You people must be bonkers. Really.
Composer
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12/6/2014 3:40:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/6/2014 2:40:06 AM, dee-em wrote:
Are you Christians all completely mad?

A star cannot hang over a house. A comet cannot hang over a house. Conjunctions of planets are quite common and unexceptional, the planetary objects are only very rarely so close that they cannot be separated by the naked eye, and again, a conjunction of planets cannot hang over a house. All these natural phenomena have apparent movement as the Earth rotates.

In each case, anyone directly under such a phenomenon in the night sky would have people for hundreds of miles in every direction who would be experiencing exactly the same thing given the distances involved.

You people must be bonkers. Really.
They are seriously bonkers!
Gentorev
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12/6/2014 4:17:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/6/2014 1:41:46 AM, Composer wrote:
So are you claiming your god sent a Comet for Herod to follow to slaughter the babes?

And where do you suppose that statement was made? Certainly not in any of my posts, which proves that you knockers do not read the posts that you respond to, or you are simply incapable of comprehending that which you have read.

Wake up to yourself son.
Gentorev
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12/6/2014 4:58:35 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/6/2014 12:57:17 AM, Composer wrote:
Yes it's just another Story book MYTH!

Roman Catholic biblical scholar Raymond E. Brown in The Birth of the Messiah lists several reasons he does not believe the biblical account, including the fact that such a bright star would have been mentioned by others, but despite fairly good astrological records it is mentioned nowhere. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

(My Ref: #3: ) Some critics wonder why "the star" led the Magi first to a hostile enemy of Jesus, and only then to the child's location"the argument being that if this was an event from God, it makes no sense for them to be led to a ruler with intentions to kill the child before taking them to Jesus. Indeed, if due to the activity of this star, or the visit from the Magi, motivated Herod to want to seek out Jesus and destroy him (Mathew 2:13), why would God, knowing this, set up a situation that would lead to a slaughter of innocents two years old and under? These lingering questions cause some scholars to be skeptical about the story of the Magi. (Source: http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org...)

Not only that, as I said earlier - IF such a phenomenon had taken place, many Jewish witnesses would have observed it and notified the Jewish authoritie s if they had somehow allegedly missed seeing it themselves.

The comet of 5 BC, which appeared after the conjunction of 6 BC, that heralded the birth of Jesus, may have been the final sign that started the wise men on their 4 month journey, but it had long since disappeared before they reached Jerusalem and did not lead them from their own country to Jerusalem.

These foreigners, in search of a promised king that was born in Israel, would have naturally went to the palace of the ruler of that country, in search of the heir to that throne.

On leaving the palace, the star=comet that they believed was the same star=comet that they had seen while in the east, appeared once again. Now we know that was impossible. This star=comet that appeared when they left the palace of Herod had to be another star=comet that "STOOD OVER" the house in Nazareth to which the family of the young Jesus had returned to.

And it was this small and insignificant comet to the north of Jerusalem, which looked like the comet of 5 BC, as it faded into the distant reaches of space, that the wise men believed was the same star=comet that they had seen while in the east.

Following in the direction of the comet, which would not have been noticed by the casual observer, they eventually arrived at the small and insignificant hamlet of Nazareth, where the fading comet, low to the horizon, with its tail reaching into the heaven, was seen to have "STOOD OVER" the house in which the young boy then lived with his parents.

You have revealed by your ignorant statement that you have not read my posts, for if you had, you would have read that the term "STOOD OVER" in ancient literature refers to comets and comets only.

How many comets do you believe the general public would have seen if they had not been told where to look in the night sky and at what time? Even then they would have difficulty in observing many of them.
Gentorev
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12/6/2014 5:08:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/6/2014 3:40:42 AM, Composer wrote:
At 12/6/2014 2:40:06 AM, dee-em wrote:
Are you Christians all completely mad?

A star cannot hang over a house. A comet cannot hang over a house. Conjunctions of planets are quite common and unexceptional, the planetary objects are only very rarely so close that they cannot be separated by the naked eye, and again, a conjunction of planets cannot hang over a house. All these natural phenomena have apparent movement as the Earth rotates.

In each case, anyone directly under such a phenomenon in the night sky would hin ave people for hundreds of miles in every direction who would be experiencing exactly the same thing given the distances involved.

You people must be bonkers. Really.
They are seriously bonkers!

Again you prove your inability to comprehend that which you have read. No one has said that a conjunction of planets hung over a house. Good heavens son, you haven't a clue , do you?

I can't be wasting my valuable time responding to your ignorant rubbish. Good night.
Gentorev
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12/6/2014 5:21:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/6/2014 2:40:06 AM, dee-em wrote:
Are you Christians all completely mad?

A star cannot hang over a house. A comet cannot hang over a house. Conjunctions of planets are quite common and unexceptional, the planetary objects are only very rarely so close that they cannot be separated by the naked eye, and again, a conjunction of planets cannot hang over a house. All these natural phenomena have apparent movement as the Earth rotates.

In each case, anyone directly under such a phenomenon in the night sky would have people for hundreds of miles in every direction who would be experiencing exactly the same thing given the distances involved.

You people must be bonkers. Really.

Dee-em wrote........A .conjunction of planets cannot hang over a house.

Gentorev....... Fair dinkum mate, and who said that they could? Are all atheists as dense as you?

Conjunctions of planets are quite common: how many have you personally observed?

A comet CAN be seen to "STAND OVER" a house or small hamlet. And won't you be red faced when you see the photo of McNaughts comet "STANDING OVER" a small village. Night, night sonny.
Composer
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12/6/2014 5:50:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/6/2014 5:08:46 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 12/6/2014 3:40:42 AM, Composer wrote:
At 12/6/2014 2:40:06 AM, dee-em wrote:
Are you Christians all completely mad?

A star cannot hang over a house. A comet cannot hang over a house. Conjunctions of planets are quite common and unexceptional, the planetary objects are only very rarely so close that they cannot be separated by the naked eye, and again, a conjunction of planets cannot hang over a house. All these natural phenomena have apparent movement as the Earth rotates.

In each case, anyone directly under such a phenomenon in the night sky would hin ave people for hundreds of miles in every direction who would be experiencing exactly the same thing given the distances involved.

You people must be bonkers. Really.
They are seriously bonkers!

Again you prove your inability to comprehend that which you have read. No one has said that a conjunction of planets hung over a house. Good heavens son, you haven't a clue , do you?

I can't be wasting my valuable time responding to your ignorant rubbish. Good night.
The long and short of it is that it didn't happen outside of Story book land!

YOU implied it did so stop wasting the time of others with your nonsense = BS!
dee-em
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12/6/2014 6:08:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/6/2014 5:21:30 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 12/6/2014 2:40:06 AM, dee-em wrote:
Are you Christians all completely mad?

A star cannot hang over a house. A comet cannot hang over a house. Conjunctions of planets are quite common and unexceptional, the planetary objects are only very rarely so close that they cannot be separated by the naked eye, and again, a conjunction of planets cannot hang over a house. All these natural phenomena have apparent movement as the Earth rotates.

In each case, anyone directly under such a phenomenon in the night sky would have people for hundreds of miles in every direction who would be experiencing exactly the same thing given the distances involved.

You people must be bonkers. Really.

Dee-em wrote........A .conjunction of planets cannot hang over a house.

Gentorev....... Fair dinkum mate, and who said that they could? Are all atheists as dense as you?

You guys raised it. Lol.

Conjunctions of planets are quite common: how many have you personally observed?

http://en.wikipedia.org...

A comet CAN be seen to "STAND OVER" a house or small hamlet. And won't you be red faced when you see the photo of McNaughts comet "STANDING OVER" a small village. Night, night sonny.

If you're talking about something in the night sky low on the horizon, then there are obvious problems. Yes, it might appear to be 'over' a village from a particular vantage point but that is an illusion.

Firstly, it takes time to travel by foot or horse over land. As you approach, the object will have wheeled around to a different position in the sky as the Earth spins on its axis. Would you still follow it?

Secondly, there is rarely a road (especially in antiquity) which takes you in a straight line to your destination. Ancient roads meandered to follow the natural contours of the land. Once you move even slightly out of a straight line approach, your object will no longer be over the village. This is simple geometry.

Thirdly, and this relates to the first point, to have an object on the horizon hanging over a village, it depends on where you are in relation to that village. If you aren't on a straight line with the object and the village to begin with you would never see the connection. In other words, you would have to magically be situated in exactly the right starting position (somehow).

Fourthly, if by some miracle you did end up at the village given all the problems above, you would still have an object somewhere in the night sky leading you in another direction. There is no way to know when you have arrived at your 'destination'!

Note that I have only talked about finding a village not a house. The latter is even more ridiculous.

You guys really are bonkers if you can entertain such fantasies for more than a few seconds.
Gentorev
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12/6/2014 6:21:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/6/2014 6:08:43 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 12/6/2014 5:21:30 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 12/6/2014 2:40:06 AM, dee-em wrote:
Are you Christians all completely mad?

A star cannot hang over a house. A comet cannot hang over a house. Conjunctions of planets are quite common and unexceptional, the planetary objects are only very rarely so close that they cannot be separated by the naked eye, and again, a conjunction of planets cannot hang over a house. All these natural phenomena have apparent movement as the Earth rotates.

In each case, anyone directly under such a phenomenon in the night sky would have people for hundreds of miles in every direction who would be experiencing exactly the same thing given the distances involved.

You people must be bonkers. Really.

Dee-em wrote........A .conjunction of planets cannot hang over a house.

Gentorev....... Fair dinkum mate, and who said that they could? Are all atheists as dense as you?

You guys raised it. Lol.

Conjunctions of planets are quite common: how many have you personally observed?

http://en.wikipedia.org...

A comet CAN be seen to "STAND OVER" a house or small hamlet. And won't you be red faced when you see the photo of McNaughts comet "STANDING OVER" a small village. Night, night sonny.

If you're talking about something in the night sky low on the horizon, then there are obvious problems. Yes, it might appear to be 'over' a village from a particular vantage point but that is an illusion.

Firstly, it takes time to travel by foot or horse over land. As you approach, the object will have wheeled around to a different position in the sky as the Earth spins on its axis. Would you still follow it?

Secondly, there is rarely a road (especially in antiquity) which takes you in a straight line to your destination. Ancient roads meandered to follow the natural contours of the land. Once you move even slightly out of a straight line approach, your object will no longer be over the village. This is simple geometry.

Thirdly, and this relates to the first point, to have an object on the horizon hanging over a village, it depends on where you are in relation to that village. If you aren't on a straight line with the object and the village to begin with you would never see the connection. In other words, you would have to magically be situated in exactly the right starting position (somehow).

Fourthly, if by some miracle you did end up at the village given all the problems above, you would still have an object somewhere in the night sky leading you in another direction. There is no way to know when you have arrived at your 'destination'!

Note that I have only talked about finding a village not a house. The latter is even more ridiculous.

You guys really are bonkers if you can entertain such fantasies for more than a few seconds.

Go and google up the photo taken By Joe Raoas in early January 19. 2007 of the McNaught comet sitting low to the horizon with its tail streaming off into the heavens and appearing to stand over a house in a small village.

Then come back and tell me that a comet can not be seen to be "STANDING OVER" a house.
dee-em
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12/6/2014 6:28:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/6/2014 6:21:03 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 12/6/2014 6:08:43 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 12/6/2014 5:21:30 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 12/6/2014 2:40:06 AM, dee-em wrote:
Are you Christians all completely mad?

A star cannot hang over a house. A comet cannot hang over a house. Conjunctions of planets are quite common and unexceptional, the planetary objects are only very rarely so close that they cannot be separated by the naked eye, and again, a conjunction of planets cannot hang over a house. All these natural phenomena have apparent movement as the Earth rotates.

In each case, anyone directly under such a phenomenon in the night sky would have people for hundreds of miles in every direction who would be experiencing exactly the same thing given the distances involved.

You people must be bonkers. Really.

Dee-em wrote........A .conjunction of planets cannot hang over a house.

Gentorev....... Fair dinkum mate, and who said that they could? Are all atheists as dense as you?

You guys raised it. Lol.

Conjunctions of planets are quite common: how many have you personally observed?

http://en.wikipedia.org...

A comet CAN be seen to "STAND OVER" a house or small hamlet. And won't you be red faced when you see the photo of McNaughts comet "STANDING OVER" a small village. Night, night sonny.

If you're talking about something in the night sky low on the horizon, then there are obvious problems. Yes, it might appear to be 'over' a village from a particular vantage point but that is an illusion.

Firstly, it takes time to travel by foot or horse over land. As you approach, the object will have wheeled around to a different position in the sky as the Earth spins on its axis. Would you still follow it?

Secondly, there is rarely a road (especially in antiquity) which takes you in a straight line to your destination. Ancient roads meandered to follow the natural contours of the land. Once you move even slightly out of a straight line approach, your object will no longer be over the village. This is simple geometry.

Thirdly, and this relates to the first point, to have an object on the horizon hanging over a village, it depends on where you are in relation to that village. If you aren't on a straight line with the object and the village to begin with you would never see the connection. In other words, you would have to magically be situated in exactly the right starting position (somehow).

Fourthly, if by some miracle you did end up at the village given all the problems above, you would still have an object somewhere in the night sky leading you in another direction. There is no way to know when you have arrived at your 'destination'!

Note that I have only talked about finding a village not a house. The latter is even more ridiculous.

You guys really are bonkers if you can entertain such fantasies for more than a few seconds.

Go and google up the photo taken By Joe Raoas in early January 19. 2007 of the McNaught comet sitting low to the horizon with its tail streaming off into the heavens and appearing to stand over a house in a small village.

Then come back and tell me that a comet can not be seen to be "STANDING OVER" a house.

Don't you understand? That's an illusion. It depends entirely on where the person was standing when he took the photo. And once you approached the house, the comet would appear to be standing over something else in the distance. Why is such a simple idea so hard to grasp?
dee-em
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12/6/2014 6:57:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
It looks like Gentorev has bugged out. I love it the way theists will never concede graciously nor admit they are wrong about anything. In case you come back Gentorev, here are some more optical illusions for you.

http://www.guy-sports.com...

I'm sure God placed the sun in exactly the right spot to allow these photos to be taken. Thank heavens. Lol.
dee-em
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12/6/2014 9:32:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/6/2014 9:23:03 PM, Gentorev wrote:
And the star "STOOD OVER" the house where the child was.

http://search.tb.ask.com...

So you're just going to disregard the objections and keep insisting that a star or comet can stand over a particular house? There's a word for this kind of blinkered approach: fanaticism.
dee-em
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12/6/2014 10:06:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/6/2014 9:26:16 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 12/6/2014 9:23:03 PM, Gentorev wrote:
And the star "STOOD OVER" the house where the child was.

http://search.tb.ask.com...

see also
http://search.tb.ask.com...

I tell you what. Next time we have such a comet, I would like you to head towards it. Keep following it night after night. I would like to know where your travels take you and where you end up when the comet finally fades. I would also like to know why you didn't stop at any particular location. My guess is you would end up walking out to sea. Lol.
bornofgod
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12/6/2014 10:08:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/5/2014 11:02:08 PM, Gentorev wrote:
Knowing that Herod died in April of 4 BC and he had ordered the death of all the innocents who were two years and under and knowing that Mary was born in 20 BC, and that she would had to have been at least 14 years old when she gave birth to her first born son Jesus, this would mean that he was born around 6 BC.

Was there any significant heavenly phenomenon at that time, which would lead the wise men to believe that here was the sign that was to herald the birth of the Saviour of Israel?

Their wasn't any wise men on earth at the time God's first saint was born. Not even the first saint knew he was a saint until God began having him testify to the invisible Word ( God's knowledge where we all exist ). Once God had the first saint start testifying in writing in a language that he was taught from childhood, the saint would have learned that he was a saint. It took another year or so before the first saint learned that he was created as the voice of the Lord ( Word of God ).

All the saints after the first saint learned they were the voice of the Lord by testifying to the invisible Word of God, too. There is only one voice of the Lord but all God's prophets and saints were used by God to testify to their created existence.

There were no wise men to observe us saints but God had chosen believers who got to know God indirectly by getting enough wisdom to come and listen to our gospel we preach.

I've had several of His believers come to me, knowing I'm His last servant testifying to the invisible Word. Where do you think they got that wisdom without even knowing our Creator?
Gentorev
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12/7/2014 1:41:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/6/2014 9:32:30 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 12/6/2014 9:23:03 PM, Gentorev wrote:
And the star "STOOD OVER" the house where the child was.

http://search.tb.ask.com...

So you're just going to disregard the objections and keep insisting that a star or comet can stand over a particular house? There's a word for this kind of blinkered approach: fanaticism.

Your objections were rubbish, I can show you pictures of comets low to the horizon STANDING OVER many different buildings, even over Stone-henge. But why bother you cannot accept the truth, that comets can be seen to stand over a particular house.
Composer
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12/7/2014 2:20:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/6/2014 9:32:30 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 12/6/2014 9:23:03 PM, Gentorev wrote:
And the star "STOOD OVER" the house where the child was.

http://search.tb.ask.com...

So you're just going to disregard the objections and keep insisting that a star or comet can stand over a particular house? There's a word for this kind of blinkered approach: fanaticism.

At 12/7/2014 1:41:27 AM, Gentorev wrote:
Your objections were rubbish, I can show you pictures of comets low to the horizon STANDING OVER many different buildings, even over Stone-henge. But why bother you cannot accept the truth, that comets can be seen to stand over a particular house.
It is Your objections that are rubbish!
Gentorev
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12/7/2014 3:21:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/7/2014 2:20:12 AM, Composer wrote:
At 12/6/2014 9:32:30 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 12/6/2014 9:23:03 PM, Gentorev wrote:
And the star "STOOD OVER" the house where the child was.

http://search.tb.ask.com...

So you're just going to disregard the objections and keep insisting that a star or comet can stand over a particular house? There's a word for this kind of blinkered approach: fanaticism.

At 12/7/2014 1:41:27 AM, Gentorev wrote:
Your objections were rubbish, I can show you pictures of comets low to the horizon STANDING OVER many different buildings, even over Stone-henge. But why bother you cannot accept the truth, that comets can be seen to stand over a particular house.
It is Your objections that are rubbish!

Are you honestly saying that a comet cannot be seen to be standing over an earthly structure?
Composer
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12/7/2014 3:36:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/7/2014 3:21:31 AM, Gentorev wrote:
Are you honestly saying that a comet cannot be seen to be standing over an earthly structure?
As was well explained to you, anything in the horizon can ' seem / appear ' to be standing/hovering over something!

If you tried to identify that ' something ' e.g. a village or a house, as you approached that which ' appeared ' to have been standing over / hovering over ' what you had previously identified, as you approached it would NO longer do so, but ' appear ' as it were standing over/hovering over something else in your new horizon.

It's like chasing the end of a rainbow really, as you move towards the end of the rainbow, it moves and you can never find it but only ' see it ' as in your ever changing perspective of it as you try to approach it.

There are other reasons also for it being a MYTH, but that will suffice already, to accurately dispel your claims!