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God: omniscience vs free will

Benshapiro
Posts: 3,965
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12/7/2014 1:59:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
If God knows everything, is it possible that humans have free will?

If God knows everything then God is omniscient. Omniscient means to have infinite knowledge, understanding, and insight.

Free will means "the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion."

An omniscient God would know our lives from beginning to end before actualizing us into existence. It follows that we actually don't have the ability to choose our own fate or act at our own discretion because we'll always act in whatever way is in accordance with our foreknown destiny at the discretion of God's knowledge.

So free will would be illusory and truly wouldnt exist. Thoughts?
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,622
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12/7/2014 2:18:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/7/2014 1:59:56 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
If God knows everything, is it possible that humans have free will?

If God knows everything then God is omniscient. Omniscient means to have infinite knowledge, understanding, and insight.

Free will means "the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion."

An omniscient God would know our lives from beginning to end before actualizing us into existence. It follows that we actually don't have the ability to choose our own fate or act at our own discretion because we'll always act in whatever way is in accordance with our foreknown destiny at the discretion of God's knowledge.

So free will would be illusory and truly wouldnt exist. Thoughts?

I've always suspected that knowing the future is not included in the concept of omniscience, which is more along the lines of knowing everything about the past and present, but not knowing the future. Therefore, God does not know our destinies.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,965
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12/7/2014 2:54:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/7/2014 2:18:58 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/7/2014 1:59:56 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
If God knows everything, is it possible that humans have free will?

If God knows everything then God is omniscient. Omniscient means to have infinite knowledge, understanding, and insight.

Free will means "the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion."

An omniscient God would know our lives from beginning to end before actualizing us into existence. It follows that we actually don't have the ability to choose our own fate or act at our own discretion because we'll always act in whatever way is in accordance with our foreknown destiny at the discretion of God's knowledge.

So free will would be illusory and truly wouldnt exist. Thoughts?

I've always suspected that knowing the future is not included in the concept of omniscience, which is more along the lines of knowing everything about the past and present, but not knowing the future. Therefore, God does not know our destinies.

But knowledge of the future is obtainable/potential knowledge. If God has infinite knowledge, and knows everything, then why would there be something that God doesn't know?

It'd be like asking God, an all-knowing omniscient entity, what the winning lottery numbers will be tomorrow and having him respond "I dunno"
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/7/2014 3:13:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/7/2014 1:59:56 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
If God knows everything, is it possible that humans have free will?

Does it make any difference? If you knew everything, would other people still have a free will?

If God knows everything then God is omniscient. Omniscient means to have infinite knowledge, understanding, and insight.

That would apply to anyone who knew everything not just to a story book character.

Free will means "the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion."

It seems all humans have that ability. It makes no difference if you know the consequences of your actions or not, you still have a choice to act or not act in any given situation. In ordinary circumstances, no one forces you to do anything you don't want to do unless you are being threatened by some terrorist.

An omniscient God would know our lives from beginning to end before actualizing us into existence. It follows that we actually don't have the ability to choose our own fate or act at our own discretion because we'll always act in whatever way is in accordance with our foreknown destiny at the discretion of God's knowledge.

I can know before they exist, that all future generations will eventually die. When it comes to death they cannot choose their own fate. They also cannot choose to be born or not. That decision is made by the people who create them in the first place.
What they do in between being born and dying is up to them to decide.
I can also know before they are born that laws exist in this world and those who break the laws suffer the consequences of breaking the laws. Those who don't break laws suffer no such consequences. Humans can still make their own choices regarding whether they break a law or not. The fact that I know what would happen if they do and I also know what would happen if they don't does not change the fact that they can still make their own decision. My knowledge does not affect their choice.

So free will would be illusory and truly wouldnt exist. Thoughts?

It exists in some areas of life but obviously not in others. All people can learn what the consequences of any actions are and make a choice to act or not act in accordance with their own knowledge.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/7/2014 3:21:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/7/2014 2:18:58 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/7/2014 1:59:56 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
If God knows everything, is it possible that humans have free will?

If God knows everything then God is omniscient. Omniscient means to have infinite knowledge, understanding, and insight.

Free will means "the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion."

An omniscient God would know our lives from beginning to end before actualizing us into existence. It follows that we actually don't have the ability to choose our own fate or act at our own discretion because we'll always act in whatever way is in accordance with our foreknown destiny at the discretion of God's knowledge.

So free will would be illusory and truly wouldnt exist. Thoughts?

I've always suspected that knowing the future is not included in the concept of omniscience, which is more along the lines of knowing everything about the past and present, but not knowing the future. Therefore, God does not know our destinies.

You don't need to be God to known that all people are destined to die in the future.
You don't need to be God to know that the new generations tend to repeat the mistakes of the older generations because they are brainwashed to live by the same rules and principles.
You don't need to be God to know that any law breakers suffer the consequences of breaking the laws when they are caught.
It is not hard to know the future when the future is merely a repeat of the past.
You can know the sun will rise tomorrow just like it did yesterday.
You can know that any future summer will follow any future winter and winter also follows summer.
It does not take a God to understand the cycles of nature are repetitive.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,622
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12/7/2014 4:05:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/7/2014 2:54:51 PM, Benshapiro wrote:

But knowledge of the future is obtainable/potential knowledge.

But, that's impossible, there is no knowledge of the future because the future has not occurred yet, no information, nada, zilch. If obtainable, from where and how is obtainable?

If God has infinite knowledge, and knows everything, then why would there be something that God doesn't know?

Because, there is no knowledge of it, hence there is nothing to know. God can know the present and the past in great detail, but what can He know about the future when the future hasn't happened yet?

It'd be like asking God, an all-knowing omniscient entity, what the winning lottery numbers will be tomorrow and having him respond "I dunno"

Exactly, and when you really think about it, the fact that God cannot know the future, like winning lottery numbers, that would tend to explain a lot of things, like free will and destiny. This concept can only serve to help theists support their gods and their beliefs.

I hope you can see that.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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12/7/2014 4:42:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/7/2014 1:59:56 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
If God knows everything, is it possible that humans have free will?

If God knows everything then God is omniscient. Omniscient means to have infinite knowledge, understanding, and insight.

Free will means "the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion."

An omniscient God would know our lives from beginning to end before actualizing us into existence. It follows that we actually don't have the ability to choose our own fate or act at our own discretion because we'll always act in whatever way is in accordance with our foreknown destiny at the discretion of God's knowledge.

So free will would be illusory and truly wouldnt exist. Thoughts?

Someone better inform Benshapiro that his account was hacked.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,221
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12/7/2014 4:53:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/7/2014 1:59:56 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
If God knows everything, is it possible that humans have free will?

If God knows everything then God is omniscient. Omniscient means to have infinite knowledge, understanding, and insight.

Free will means "the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion."

An omniscient God would know our lives from beginning to end before actualizing us into existence. It follows that we actually don't have the ability to choose our own fate or act at our own discretion because we'll always act in whatever way is in accordance with our foreknown destiny at the discretion of God's knowledge.

So free will would be illusory and truly wouldnt exist. Thoughts?

The concept of God and Omniscience as related, to me, is that God would have a REALLY good idea as to what you are going to choose, and the next set of consequences and reactions up until another choice, but is not 100 percent accurate on things that hasn't occurred. He is aware of all things that HAVE happened, and provided the action is one of physics (where a rock might end up if tossed down a wishing well for instance), He can accurately determine what will happen. Schrodinger's cat doesn't work on Him.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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12/7/2014 5:25:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/7/2014 1:59:56 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
If God knows everything, is it possible that humans have free will?

If God knows everything then God is omniscient. Omniscient means to have infinite knowledge, understanding, and insight.

Free will means "the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion."

An omniscient God would know our lives from beginning to end before actualizing us into existence. It follows that we actually don't have the ability to choose our own fate or act at our own discretion because we'll always act in whatever way is in accordance with our foreknown destiny at the discretion of God's knowledge.

So free will would be illusory and truly wouldnt exist. Thoughts?

You have to define "Free Will" first.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,965
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12/8/2014 1:36:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2014 5:25:07 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 12/7/2014 1:59:56 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
If God knows everything, is it possible that humans have free will?

If God knows everything then God is omniscient. Omniscient means to have infinite knowledge, understanding, and insight.

Free will means "the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion."

An omniscient God would know our lives from beginning to end before actualizing us into existence. It follows that we actually don't have the ability to choose our own fate or act at our own discretion because we'll always act in whatever way is in accordance with our foreknown destiny at the discretion of God's knowledge.

So free will would be illusory and truly wouldnt exist. Thoughts?

You have to define "Free Will" first.

I defined it in the OP. Do you see the omniscience of God vs free will as a dilemma?
scmike2
Posts: 946
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12/8/2014 1:58:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
An omniscient God would know our lives from beginning to end before actualizing us into existence. It follows that we actually don't have the ability to choose our own fate or act at our own discretion because we'll always act in whatever way is in accordance with our foreknown destiny at the discretion of God's knowledge.

So free will would be illusory and truly wouldnt exist. Thoughts?


I wouldn't say that it is illusory. God plans our free choices such that we are completely accountable for them. Any intellectually honest debater would have to admit that it is possible that an omniscient, omnipotent God could accomplish this in a non-contradictory way (even if we are unaware of the means by which He does so).
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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12/8/2014 2:03:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/8/2014 1:36:40 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/7/2014 5:25:07 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 12/7/2014 1:59:56 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
If God knows everything, is it possible that humans have free will?

If God knows everything then God is omniscient. Omniscient means to have infinite knowledge, understanding, and insight.

Free will means "the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion."

An omniscient God would know our lives from beginning to end before actualizing us into existence. It follows that we actually don't have the ability to choose our own fate or act at our own discretion because we'll always act in whatever way is in accordance with our foreknown destiny at the discretion of God's knowledge.

So free will would be illusory and truly wouldnt exist. Thoughts?

You have to define "Free Will" first.

I defined it in the OP. Do you see the omniscience of God vs free will as a dilemma?

Oh,that shows how well I payed attention to the OP, lol.

Well I regard both free will (as you defined it) and omniscience as both indecently incoherent (they both lead to logical contradictions), but assuming they don't, then yes, it's a dilemma. Cf. my debate with Daley:
http://www.debate.org...

I'll paste my argument here (which applies to God's own free will), I need to make it prettier as there are too many conditionals... Meh.

A) God exists (assumption)
1) If God exists, then free will exists
2) Free will exists
3) If God exists, he knows the results of all choices that will occur
4) If he knows the results of all choices that will occur, then the future objectively exists
5) If the future objectively exists, then God could not have chosen differently
6) If God cannot have chosen differently, then free will does not exist
7) Free will does not exist
C) A entails a contradiction (2 & 7), therefore A is false.

I expect only 5 & 6 can be challenged (the rest follow by deduction or definitions). The future objectively existing entails fate, and logical constraint, since God knows the future but cannot change his mind even if he wanted to. An even stronger prima facie case can be made with humans.

God could write on a piece of paper "you will make a mistake tomorrow which will cost you your life", and describe what the mistake if, the time, the place etc. However it would be logically impossible to 'disobey' that piece of paper for the human, even though he would not want to make the mistake.

So, if you are stuck doing the thing you know is coming, then you are for all intents and purposes, without control.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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12/8/2014 2:06:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/8/2014 1:58:15 PM, scmike2 wrote:
An omniscient God would know our lives from beginning to end before actualizing us into existence. It follows that we actually don't have the ability to choose our own fate or act at our own discretion because we'll always act in whatever way is in accordance with our foreknown destiny at the discretion of God's knowledge.

So free will would be illusory and truly wouldnt exist. Thoughts?


I wouldn't say that it is illusory. God plans our free choices such that we are completely accountable for them. Any intellectually honest debater would have to admit that it is possible that an omniscient, omnipotent God could accomplish this in a non-contradictory way (even if we are unaware of the means by which He does so).

I guess I am intellectually dishonest. Since it's just an case of trying to square the circle as far as I see. The proposition itself is a contradiction, not the theodicys.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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12/8/2014 6:48:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2014 1:59:56 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
If God knows everything, is it possible that humans have free will?

If God knows everything then God is omniscient. Omniscient means to have infinite knowledge, understanding, and insight.

Free will means "the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion."

An omniscient God would know our lives from beginning to end before actualizing us into existence. It follows that we actually don't have the ability to choose our own fate or act at our own discretion because we'll always act in whatever way is in accordance with our foreknown destiny at the discretion of God's knowledge.

So free will would be illusory and truly wouldnt exist. Thoughts?

No contradiction. It is relative. Like 2 observers watching the same event recording different results.

http://users.ox.ac.uk...

God is a super-observer not quantum entangled with in the same line as we are. Allowing him a perspective of seeing the actions as deterministic. While we are progressing inside our light cone we arrive at choice with no knowledge of the outcome and therefore freedom to choose.

If you read the article and subsequent test results you will understand that the observer quantum entangled "Really" does have free choice because the wave function has not collapsed and therefore are NOT constrained by fate.

http://www.newscientist.com...

What's amazing is for these concepts to be actually describing a real God and a real human freedom, The universe would have to be time flowing by entropic principles. Which is gaining respect and study.

http://arxiv.org...
a_drumming_dog
Posts: 93
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12/8/2014 11:32:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2014 1:59:56 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
If God knows everything, is it possible that humans have free will?

If God knows everything then God is omniscient. Omniscient means to have infinite knowledge, understanding, and insight.

Free will means "the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion."

An omniscient God would know our lives from beginning to end before actualizing us into existence. It follows that we actually don't have the ability to choose our own fate or act at our own discretion because we'll always act in whatever way is in accordance with our foreknown destiny at the discretion of God's knowledge.

So free will would be illusory and truly wouldnt exist. Thoughts?

Well, just because God knows everything about us, that doesn't we don't have free will. I like to picture God as looking at us through a TV episode that he's already seen. He knows whats going to to happen, but he hasn't necessarily affected our free will. Thats just I how I think of it anyways. It's not the best analogy.

If you really have a problem with God's omniscience and free will, you could always take the stance that God blinds himself from knowing about certain things in the future. This makes a lot of sense to me, but I'm not sure I would be able to make a good theological argument for it.
The truth will set you free
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,965
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12/8/2014 11:38:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/8/2014 11:32:38 PM, a_drumming_dog wrote:
At 12/7/2014 1:59:56 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
If God knows everything, is it possible that humans have free will?

If God knows everything then God is omniscient. Omniscient means to have infinite knowledge, understanding, and insight.

Free will means "the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion."

An omniscient God would know our lives from beginning to end before actualizing us into existence. It follows that we actually don't have the ability to choose our own fate or act at our own discretion because we'll always act in whatever way is in accordance with our foreknown destiny at the discretion of God's knowledge.

So free will would be illusory and truly wouldnt exist. Thoughts?

Well, just because God knows everything about us, that doesn't we don't have free will. I like to picture God as looking at us through a TV episode that he's already seen. He knows whats going to to happen, but he hasn't necessarily affected our free will. Thats just I how I think of it anyways. It's not the best analogy.

If you really have a problem with God's omniscience and free will, you could always take the stance that God blinds himself from knowing about certain things in the future. This makes a lot of sense to me, but I'm not sure I would be able to make a good theological argument for it.

But that's like telling somebody you can choose to be saved and give them the illusion that they really had a choice when you knew they wouldn't be before you ever created them. By actualizing them into existence you actualize the choices they'll make that you've already foreknown. So there's really no deviation from what you knew would happen and their fate has been known from beginning to end all along.
bulproof
Posts: 25,227
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12/9/2014 12:38:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/8/2014 11:38:34 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/8/2014 11:32:38 PM, a_drumming_dog wrote:
At 12/7/2014 1:59:56 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
If God knows everything, is it possible that humans have free will?

If God knows everything then God is omniscient. Omniscient means to have infinite knowledge, understanding, and insight.

Free will means "the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion."

An omniscient God would know our lives from beginning to end before actualizing us into existence. It follows that we actually don't have the ability to choose our own fate or act at our own discretion because we'll always act in whatever way is in accordance with our foreknown destiny at the discretion of God's knowledge.

So free will would be illusory and truly wouldnt exist. Thoughts?

Well, just because God knows everything about us, that doesn't we don't have free will. I like to picture God as looking at us through a TV episode that he's already seen. He knows whats going to to happen, but he hasn't necessarily affected our free will. Thats just I how I think of it anyways. It's not the best analogy.

If you really have a problem with God's omniscience and free will, you could always take the stance that God blinds himself from knowing about certain things in the future. This makes a lot of sense to me, but I'm not sure I would be able to make a good theological argument for it.

But that's like telling somebody you can choose to be saved and give them the illusion that they really had a choice when you knew they wouldn't be before you ever created them. By actualizing them into existence you actualize the choices they'll make that you've already foreknown. So there's really no deviation from what you knew would happen and their fate has been known from beginning to end all along.

I've used this argument at least 20 times in this forum, why has it taken you so long to realise the paradox.
Your god creates souls in the full knowledge that those souls are in hell, before he creates them ergo he creates souls for the sole purpose of torturing them for eternity.
Is thia a benevolent all loving god? I don't think so, but I don't believe he exists, it's those that do who refuse to address this paradox.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
a_drumming_dog
Posts: 93
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12/9/2014 10:20:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/8/2014 11:38:34 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/8/2014 11:32:38 PM, a_drumming_dog wrote:
At 12/7/2014 1:59:56 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
If God knows everything, is it possible that humans have free will?

If God knows everything then God is omniscient. Omniscient means to have infinite knowledge, understanding, and insight.

Free will means "the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion."

An omniscient God would know our lives from beginning to end before actualizing us into existence. It follows that we actually don't have the ability to choose our own fate or act at our own discretion because we'll always act in whatever way is in accordance with our foreknown destiny at the discretion of God's knowledge.

So free will would be illusory and truly wouldnt exist. Thoughts?

Well, just because God knows everything about us, that doesn't we don't have free will. I like to picture God as looking at us through a TV episode that he's already seen. He knows whats going to to happen, but he hasn't necessarily affected our free will. Thats just I how I think of it anyways. It's not the best analogy.

If you really have a problem with God's omniscience and free will, you could always take the stance that God blinds himself from knowing about certain things in the future. This makes a lot of sense to me, but I'm not sure I would be able to make a good theological argument for it.

But that's like telling somebody you can choose to be saved and give them the illusion that they really had a choice when you knew they wouldn't be before you ever created them. By actualizing them into existence you actualize the choices they'll make that you've already foreknown. So there's really no deviation from what you knew would happen and their fate has been known from beginning to end all along.

Well, I would raise an objection to one of your comments.

"By actualizing them into existence you actualize the choices they'll make that you've already foreknown."

Please provide a defense of that, your whole idea seems to be resting on the truth of that claim.

I found some articles that you might be interested in, here you go.
http://www.reasonablefaith.org...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
The truth will set you free
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,965
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12/9/2014 10:23:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 10:20:59 AM, a_drumming_dog wrote:
At 12/8/2014 11:38:34 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/8/2014 11:32:38 PM, a_drumming_dog wrote:
At 12/7/2014 1:59:56 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
If God knows everything, is it possible that humans have free will?

If God knows everything then God is omniscient. Omniscient means to have infinite knowledge, understanding, and insight.

Free will means "the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion."

An omniscient God would know our lives from beginning to end before actualizing us into existence. It follows that we actually don't have the ability to choose our own fate or act at our own discretion because we'll always act in whatever way is in accordance with our foreknown destiny at the discretion of God's knowledge.

So free will would be illusory and truly wouldnt exist. Thoughts?

Well, just because God knows everything about us, that doesn't we don't have free will. I like to picture God as looking at us through a TV episode that he's already seen. He knows whats going to to happen, but he hasn't necessarily affected our free will. Thats just I how I think of it anyways. It's not the best analogy.

If you really have a problem with God's omniscience and free will, you could always take the stance that God blinds himself from knowing about certain things in the future. This makes a lot of sense to me, but I'm not sure I would be able to make a good theological argument for it.

But that's like telling somebody you can choose to be saved and give them the illusion that they really had a choice when you knew they wouldn't be before you ever created them. By actualizing them into existence you actualize the choices they'll make that you've already foreknown. So there's really no deviation from what you knew would happen and their fate has been known from beginning to end all along.

Well, I would raise an objection to one of your comments.

"By actualizing them into existence you actualize the choices they'll make that you've already foreknown."

Please provide a defense of that, your whole idea seems to be resting on the truth of that claim.

I found some articles that you might be interested in, here you go.
http://www.reasonablefaith.org...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...

It follows logically. If you know that X will occur if you begin Y, once you begin Y then X is already a defined outcome. Give me a summary from the links provided as to why this isn't the case.
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
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12/9/2014 10:51:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2014 4:05:26 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/7/2014 2:54:51 PM, Benshapiro wrote:

But knowledge of the future is obtainable/potential knowledge.

But, that's impossible, there is no knowledge of the future because the future has not occurred yet, no information, nada, zilch. If obtainable, from where and how is obtainable?

Actually, under the B-Theory of Time the future does exist. Retrocausality confirms the existence of the future, relativity supports the B-Theory of Time, etc.

That means that the future exists, and an omniscient being would know what happens in the future.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
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