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What is the best argument for or against...

tabularasa
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12/8/2014 10:43:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
...the premise of Christianity: God is love. I am interested in hearing arguments for and against. I will remain friendly in this thread, but I may ask questions for the sake of greater clarity. Give me your best argument, I will not argue for or against. If this post is not hostile enough for your tastes, but you think you have a good argument, please post anyway! Atheists, agnostics, theists, Christians, Jews, Muslims, gay, straight, black, white...all are welcome!

I would even like to hear some people contest that "God is love" is the premise of Christianity. C'mon wit it.
1. I already googled it.

2. Give me an argument. Spell it out. "You're wrong," is not an argument.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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12/8/2014 10:46:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/8/2014 10:43:48 PM, tabularasa wrote:
...the premise of Christianity: God is love. I am interested in hearing arguments for and against. I will remain friendly in this thread, but I may ask questions for the sake of greater clarity. Give me your best argument, I will not argue for or against. If this post is not hostile enough for your tastes, but you think you have a good argument, please post anyway! Atheists, agnostics, theists, Christians, Jews, Muslims, gay, straight, black, white...all are welcome!

I would even like to hear some people contest that "God is love" is the premise of Christianity. C'mon wit it.

Love, by definition, isn't God.

/thread.
a_drumming_dog
Posts: 93
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12/8/2014 11:12:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/8/2014 10:43:48 PM, tabularasa wrote:
...the premise of Christianity: God is love. I am interested in hearing arguments for and against. I will remain friendly in this thread, but I may ask questions for the sake of greater clarity. Give me your best argument, I will not argue for or against. If this post is not hostile enough for your tastes, but you think you have a good argument, please post anyway! Atheists, agnostics, theists, Christians, Jews, Muslims, gay, straight, black, white...all are welcome!

I would even like to hear some people contest that "God is love" is the premise of Christianity. C'mon wit it.

Well ,I would not argue that God is love, I would argue that love is one of his many attributes, like wrath and jealousy to name a couple. I'm not sure if you know the Old Testament well, but it gives many names for God, some of then are
Qanna (Jealous)
Jehovah Jireh (The Lord Will Provide)
Jehovah Shalom (The Lord Is Peace)
Jehovah Sabaoth (The Lord of Hosts)
El Olam (The Everlasting God)
https://www.blueletterbible.org...\

I did find one Bible verse that says God is love, namely it is 1 John 4
"7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him."

But we also find verses like these
Exodus 15 "3 The LORD is a warrior; The LORD is His name. 4 Pharaoh's chariots and his army He has cast into the sea..."
Isaiah 42 "13 The LORD will go forth like a warrior, He will arouse His zeal like a man of war. He will utter a shout, yes, He will raise a war cry. He will prevail against His enemies"

So for these reasons, I conclude that God is definitely love, but he is not just love. He has many other attributes. Hope this helped :)
The truth will set you free
Benshapiro
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12/8/2014 11:22:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
God is love because our moral code follows a code of love. We have a moral purpose incentivized towards maximum love and disencentived away from lovelessness. This incentive mechanism that guides our purposeful behavior is our conscience. It follows that if objective morality exists, it is indefinitely true that we ought to maximize love and minimize lovelessness. It is indefinitely true that love is a better purpose than a purpose of lovelessness. This can only be indefinitely true if there is a maximum, intentional love that grounds the truth or intent behind this objective purpose.
tabularasa
Posts: 200
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12/9/2014 1:57:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/8/2014 10:46:34 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 12/8/2014 10:43:48 PM, tabularasa wrote:
...the premise of Christianity: God is love. I am interested in hearing arguments for and against. I will remain friendly in this thread, but I may ask questions for the sake of greater clarity. Give me your best argument, I will not argue for or against. If this post is not hostile enough for your tastes, but you think you have a good argument, please post anyway! Atheists, agnostics, theists, Christians, Jews, Muslims, gay, straight, black, white...all are welcome!

I would even like to hear some people contest that "God is love" is the premise of Christianity. C'mon wit it.

Love, by definition, isn't God.

/thread.

Good. Please define love.

Take "God is love" to mean "God loves humanity/creation" or "Love is one of god's attributes.
1. I already googled it.

2. Give me an argument. Spell it out. "You're wrong," is not an argument.
tabularasa
Posts: 200
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12/9/2014 2:00:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/8/2014 11:12:29 PM, a_drumming_dog wrote:
At 12/8/2014 10:43:48 PM, tabularasa wrote:
...the premise of Christianity: God is love. I am interested in hearing arguments for and against. I will remain friendly in this thread, but I may ask questions for the sake of greater clarity. Give me your best argument, I will not argue for or against. If this post is not hostile enough for your tastes, but you think you have a good argument, please post anyway! Atheists, agnostics, theists, Christians, Jews, Muslims, gay, straight, black, white...all are welcome!

I would even like to hear some people contest that "God is love" is the premise of Christianity. C'mon wit it.

Well ,I would not argue that God is love, I would argue that love is one of his many attributes, like wrath and jealousy to name a couple. I'm not sure if you know the Old Testament well, but it gives many names for God, some of then are
Qanna (Jealous)
Jehovah Jireh (The Lord Will Provide)
Jehovah Shalom (The Lord Is Peace)
Jehovah Sabaoth (The Lord of Hosts)
El Olam (The Everlasting God)
https://www.blueletterbible.org...\

I did find one Bible verse that says God is love, namely it is 1 John 4
"7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him."

But we also find verses like these
Exodus 15 "3 The LORD is a warrior; The LORD is His name. 4 Pharaoh's chariots and his army He has cast into the sea..."
Isaiah 42 "13 The LORD will go forth like a warrior, He will arouse His zeal like a man of war. He will utter a shout, yes, He will raise a war cry. He will prevail against His enemies"

So for these reasons, I conclude that God is definitely love, but he is not just love. He has many other attributes. Hope this helped :)

Agreed. Love is one of many attributes of God. God is love is not a perfect logical statement. It does not mean God is only love. It is like saying "Pete is Canadian." There are many other attributes to Pete's personality other than where he is from. I agree with you.
1. I already googled it.

2. Give me an argument. Spell it out. "You're wrong," is not an argument.
tabularasa
Posts: 200
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12/9/2014 2:02:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/8/2014 11:22:35 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
God is love because our moral code follows a code of love. We have a moral purpose incentivized towards maximum love and disencentived away from lovelessness. This incentive mechanism that guides our purposeful behavior is our conscience. It follows that if objective morality exists, it is indefinitely true that we ought to maximize love and minimize lovelessness. It is indefinitely true that love is a better purpose than a purpose of lovelessness. This can only be indefinitely true if there is a maximum, intentional love that grounds the truth or intent behind this objective purpose.

So you are saying that because our conscience points towards love as the highest good that this is proof that the Creator is loving by his nature? Do you mind filling in the gaps for me? I don't understand the causal relationship between a conscience and God's nature.
1. I already googled it.

2. Give me an argument. Spell it out. "You're wrong," is not an argument.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,227
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12/9/2014 2:08:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/8/2014 10:43:48 PM, tabularasa wrote:
...the premise of Christianity: God is love. I am interested in hearing arguments for and against. I will remain friendly in this thread, but I may ask questions for the sake of greater clarity. Give me your best argument, I will not argue for or against. If this post is not hostile enough for your tastes, but you think you have a good argument, please post anyway! Atheists, agnostics, theists, Christians, Jews, Muslims, gay, straight, black, white...all are welcome!

I would even like to hear some people contest that "God is love" is the premise of Christianity. C'mon wit it

In the old testament God is wrathful. Wrath =/= Love. The 2nd commandment says that we should not have any other god before God, because He is a jealous God. Jealousy =/= Love.
bulproof
Posts: 25,254
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12/9/2014 2:32:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
From reading his "authorised" biography it is obvious that this god of the bible loves himself above all others and despises his creation.
See "hell" and salvation.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
tabularasa
Posts: 200
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12/9/2014 12:54:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Bump
1. I already googled it.

2. Give me an argument. Spell it out. "You're wrong," is not an argument.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/9/2014 1:33:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/8/2014 10:43:48 PM, tabularasa wrote:
...the premise of Christianity: God is love. I am interested in hearing arguments for and against. I will remain friendly in this thread, but I may ask questions for the sake of greater clarity. Give me your best argument, I will not argue for or against. If this post is not hostile enough for your tastes, but you think you have a good argument, please post anyway! Atheists, agnostics, theists, Christians, Jews, Muslims, gay, straight, black, white...all are welcome!

I would even like to hear some people contest that "God is love" is the premise of Christianity. C'mon wit it.

The bible teaches that God is love but it also teaches God is far more than just love. It teaches God has many spirits and many ways of manifesting.
The bible also calls God a SPIRIT not a man. If you need scripture references, I can provide them.
It teaches that this spirit ( vibe, attitude, process, way of life) can be manifest though all humans and all living things.
God manifested through a bush in the bible, through animals, through clouds, through humans and various other things. These things are all representations of a God which is more than just the emotion or attitude of love.

Love is a human attitude and emotion which is also something that can be perceived as both good and bad. It is good when people love you and you feel accepted and appreciated by them however there is also a side of love which is tough and which makes people feel like they are not loved at all. Take for example the disciplinary side of love where an adult needs to discipline a child in love to help them learn the difference between right and wrong. That does not always make the child feel loved and accepted or appreciated. It often makes the child feel like parent is against them and sometimes even makes the child feel hate toward the parent temporarily because they have been told they are not allowed to do something that they would like to do.

Love in that sense has two ways of looking at it. It has the adult way of seeing it and the childish way of seeing it. Children do not understand love when it makes them feel restricted or bad about what they did. They see that as hate not as love.
There are at least two sides to anything and two ways to perceive it. in order to appreciate the whole picture you need to embrace both sides of it. We need to take the good with the bad and understand that opposites need each other to make the whole.

Love/Hate are simply two sides of the same coin called Love.
Life/death are two sides of the same coin called Life.
God/Devil are two sides of the same coin called God.

The coin can always be perceived in opposite ways.

There is a positive and negative side to all things.

If you want God to be all love and no hate then you end up with only half a God.
Accepting only the positive side of someone or something is unreasonable and unrealistic.
It is like someone only accepting you if you were always positive and never said a negative word to them, never corrected them for anything and never made them feel foolish, bad or guilty about anything. It is unrealistic to believe anything at all exists with only one side to it.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/9/2014 1:39:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 1:57:26 AM, tabularasa wrote:
At 12/8/2014 10:46:34 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 12/8/2014 10:43:48 PM, tabularasa wrote:
...the premise of Christianity: God is love. I am interested in hearing arguments for and against. I will remain friendly in this thread, but I may ask questions for the sake of greater clarity. Give me your best argument, I will not argue for or against. If this post is not hostile enough for your tastes, but you think you have a good argument, please post anyway! Atheists, agnostics, theists, Christians, Jews, Muslims, gay, straight, black, white...all are welcome!

I would even like to hear some people contest that "God is love" is the premise of Christianity. C'mon wit it.

Love, by definition, isn't God.

/thread.

Good. Please define love.

Take "God is love" to mean "God loves humanity/creation" or "Love is one of god's attributes.

Please define God. When you say God loves humanity, are you implying that a supernatural character loves us and love is just one of the characters attributes?

I can say Mother Nature loves humanity and that would be the same as saying God loves humanity but I am not talking about any supernatural character in reality I am talking about a process in which life provides for life.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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12/9/2014 1:51:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The best argument againt relligion is truth. Jesus Christ claimed to be the truth.
He spoke the truth agaisnt the religous leaders, who loved their sinful ways and did not like the truth. They had him crucifeid because they hated the truth. They were threatened by the truth and felt that they ended the threat when Jesus died. They did not know He would rise from the dead as the Conquerer of death or they would not have crucified Him.

The truth is, Jesus Christ is the only person who never deserved to die. We all deserve to die, and He is God who died in our plece to give us eternal life if we will A0 Agree with God, admit we have sinned against Him and deserve to die. B) Believe Jesus is God the Son sent by God the Father to take the wrath of God agasint our sins on Himself, so in His resurrection we can be forgiven of our sin, and C) Call on God the Father in the name of Jesus to save us, and receive Him personally as the Living God, our Saviour, Jesus Christ.

There is no counsel or understanding against the Lord. All against Him fails in death.
If you are agaisnt Him, He is against you though He gives you time under mercy desirign that you will repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved from Hell.
tabularasa
Posts: 200
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12/9/2014 1:54:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 1:39:56 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/9/2014 1:57:26 AM, tabularasa wrote:
At 12/8/2014 10:46:34 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 12/8/2014 10:43:48 PM, tabularasa wrote:
...the premise of Christianity: God is love. I am interested in hearing arguments for and against. I will remain friendly in this thread, but I may ask questions for the sake of greater clarity. Give me your best argument, I will not argue for or against. If this post is not hostile enough for your tastes, but you think you have a good argument, please post anyway! Atheists, agnostics, theists, Christians, Jews, Muslims, gay, straight, black, white...all are welcome!

I would even like to hear some people contest that "God is love" is the premise of Christianity. C'mon wit it.

Love, by definition, isn't God.

/thread.

Good. Please define love.

Take "God is love" to mean "God loves humanity/creation" or "Love is one of god's attributes.

Please define God. When you say God loves humanity, are you implying that a supernatural character loves us and love is just one of the characters attributes?

I can say Mother Nature loves humanity and that would be the same as saying God loves humanity but I am not talking about any supernatural character in reality I am talking about a process in which life provides for life.

The definition of God is up for debate. "God is love" defines God by one of his possible attributes: love. I would simply define God as creator of all possible universes. Whether love is one of God's attributes, and whether this can be demonstrated by an argument is what I am trying to find out.
1. I already googled it.

2. Give me an argument. Spell it out. "You're wrong," is not an argument.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/9/2014 2:00:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 2:08:14 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/8/2014 10:43:48 PM, tabularasa wrote:
...the premise of Christianity: God is love. I am interested in hearing arguments for and against. I will remain friendly in this thread, but I may ask questions for the sake of greater clarity. Give me your best argument, I will not argue for or against. If this post is not hostile enough for your tastes, but you think you have a good argument, please post anyway! Atheists, agnostics, theists, Christians, Jews, Muslims, gay, straight, black, white...all are welcome!

I would even like to hear some people contest that "God is love" is the premise of Christianity. C'mon wit it

In the old testament God is wrathful. Wrath =/= Love. The 2nd commandment says that we should not have any other god before God, because He is a jealous God. Jealousy =/= Love.


If God is an invisible supernatural character, not having any other gods would mean...
Do not worship any invisible supernatural characters ( gods). No statues ( idols) should be made of them and no one should talk to them because they don't talk back anyway. Does that mean humans should only worship one supernatural character and talk to just that one because only one exists in reality?

Or

If God is a Spirit which is in all of Life and can also be referred to as the spirit of life, not having any other gods would mean do not worship any individual life form as a god but embrace life as a whole and respect that as God.
Life has emotions which manifest through the forms capable of manifesting emotion. It also has no emotions in the forms of life which are incapable of manifesting emotion like plants for example.
Life is not something which you can idolize in the sense of creating an image of it because it has too many forms through which it manifests itself.

When you perceive God as all that exists, then you release yourself from the bondage of worshiping any single life form as an individual God. It sets you free from idolatry and free from talking to imaginary characters. However, it does not take away the reality of the spirit of life, the essence of life, the energy of life.

God is all that exists. All of us are part of that corporate body. To love each other is to care about life in general and care about each other. To do that is what it means to love God. That action and attitude is how God/ life loves us.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,227
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12/9/2014 2:23:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 2:00:39 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/9/2014 2:08:14 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/8/2014 10:43:48 PM, tabularasa wrote:
...the premise of Christianity: God is love. I am interested in hearing arguments for and against. I will remain friendly in this thread, but I may ask questions for the sake of greater clarity. Give me your best argument, I will not argue for or against. If this post is not hostile enough for your tastes, but you think you have a good argument, please post anyway! Atheists, agnostics, theists, Christians, Jews, Muslims, gay, straight, black, white...all are welcome!

I would even like to hear some people contest that "God is love" is the premise of Christianity. C'mon wit it

In the old testament God is wrathful. Wrath =/= Love. The 2nd commandment says that we should not have any other god before God, because He is a jealous God. Jealousy =/= Love.


If God is an invisible supernatural character, not having any other gods would mean...
Do not worship any invisible supernatural characters ( gods). No statues ( idols) should be made of them and no one should talk to them because they don't talk back anyway. Does that mean humans should only worship one supernatural character and talk to just that one because only one exists in reality?

Or

If God is a Spirit which is in all of Life and can also be referred to as the spirit of life, not having any other gods would mean do not worship any individual life form as a god but embrace life as a whole and respect that as God.
Life has emotions which manifest through the forms capable of manifesting emotion. It also has no emotions in the forms of life which are incapable of manifesting emotion like plants for example.
Life is not something which you can idolize in the sense of creating an image of it because it has too many forms through which it manifests itself.

When you perceive God as all that exists, then you release yourself from the bondage of worshiping any single life form as an individual God. It sets you free from idolatry and free from talking to imaginary characters. However, it does not take away the reality of the spirit of life, the essence of life, the energy of life.

God is all that exists. All of us are part of that corporate body. To love each other is to care about life in general and care about each other. To do that is what it means to love God. That action and attitude is how God/ life loves us.

The OP is about Christianity. And the Bible has a a lot more to say that what you've posted above.
tabularasa
Posts: 200
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12/9/2014 2:31:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 1:33:02 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/8/2014 10:43:48 PM, tabularasa wrote:
...the premise of Christianity: God is love. I am interested in hearing arguments for and against. I will remain friendly in this thread, but I may ask questions for the sake of greater clarity. Give me your best argument, I will not argue for or against. If this post is not hostile enough for your tastes, but you think you have a good argument, please post anyway! Atheists, agnostics, theists, Christians, Jews, Muslims, gay, straight, black, white...all are welcome!

I would even like to hear some people contest that "God is love" is the premise of Christianity. C'mon wit it.

The bible teaches that God is love but it also teaches God is far more than just love. It teaches God has many spirits and many ways of manifesting.
The bible also calls God a SPIRIT not a man. If you need scripture references, I can provide them.
It teaches that this spirit ( vibe, attitude, process, way of life) can be manifest though all humans and all living things.
God manifested through a bush in the bible, through animals, through clouds, through humans and various other things. These things are all representations of a God which is more than just the emotion or attitude of love.

Love is a human attitude and emotion which is also something that can be perceived as both good and bad. It is good when people love you and you feel accepted and appreciated by them however there is also a side of love which is tough and which makes people feel like they are not loved at all. Take for example the disciplinary side of love where an adult needs to discipline a child in love to help them learn the difference between right and wrong. That does not always make the child feel loved and accepted or appreciated. It often makes the child feel like parent is against them and sometimes even makes the child feel hate toward the parent temporarily because they have been told they are not allowed to do something that they would like to do.

Love in that sense has two ways of looking at it. It has the adult way of seeing it and the childish way of seeing it. Children do not understand love when it makes them feel restricted or bad about what they did. They see that as hate not as love.
There are at least two sides to anything and two ways to perceive it. in order to appreciate the whole picture you need to embrace both sides of it. We need to take the good with the bad and understand that opposites need each other to make the whole.

Love/Hate are simply two sides of the same coin called Love.
Life/death are two sides of the same coin called Life.
God/Devil are two sides of the same coin called God.


The coin can always be perceived in opposite ways.

There is a positive and negative side to all things.

If you want God to be all love and no hate then you end up with only half a God.
Accepting only the positive side of someone or something is unreasonable and unrealistic.
It is like someone only accepting you if you were always positive and never said a negative word to them, never corrected them for anything and never made them feel foolish, bad or guilty about anything. It is unrealistic to believe anything at all exists with only one side to it.

So tell me if I am understanding your argument...

1. Things as we perceive them to exist in the world reflect the nature of God.
2. This is true because creation is an expression of God's "personality" or "essence".
3. Since both good and evil are present in the world, and 1 and 2 are true, God must be a mixture of both. (this holds true for love/hate, etc.)
1. I already googled it.

2. Give me an argument. Spell it out. "You're wrong," is not an argument.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/9/2014 2:42:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 1:51:05 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
The best argument againt relligion is truth. Jesus Christ claimed to be the truth.
He spoke the truth agaisnt the religous leaders, who loved their sinful ways and did not like the truth. They had him crucifeid because they hated the truth. They were threatened by the truth and felt that they ended the threat when Jesus died. They did not know He would rise from the dead as the Conquerer of death or they would not have crucified Him.

The truth is, Jesus Christ is the only person who never deserved to die. We all deserve to die, and He is God who died in our plece to give us eternal life if we will A0 Agree with God, admit we have sinned against Him and deserve to die. B) Believe Jesus is God the Son sent by God the Father to take the wrath of God agasint our sins on Himself, so in His resurrection we can be forgiven of our sin, and C) Call on God the Father in the name of Jesus to save us, and receive Him personally as the Living God, our Saviour, Jesus Christ.


Jesus died in the story whether he deserved it or not. He told us to follow his example and those who do also die whether they deserve it or not. In reality and in all TRUTH, no one can live without dying regardless of whether they deserve to die or not. Not even God lives without dying. Truth ( Jesus) is crucified afresh daily by all who keep rejecting it. ( Heb 6:6)

Is death a punishment or a reward which we deserve or don't deserve?
Do we all deserve to live? Is life a punishment or a reward which we deserve or don't deserve?
If we deserve it,( Life/death) in what way do we deserve it? If we don't deserve it, why are we alive in the first place?
Life is a gift from life. So is death. Death is not a punishment. It is a gift which is part of life.

A) We cannot sin against any invisible supernatural characters by not obeying or believing in them.
We can sin against life in general by mistreating and abusing it. We can even sin against ourselves by mistreating ourselves and not looking after ourselves. We cannot sin against mythical gods any more than we can sin against superman.

B) Believe TRUTH is God the Son sent by TRUTH the Father to take the wrath of TRUTH against our sins against TRUTH, so in the resurrection of TRUTH, lies and liars can be forgiven of their foolishness. Truth dies daily and also rises daily just like the sun rises and sets daily. The light of the world rises and sets daily.

C) Call on TRUTH in the name of TRUTH to save us from deception, false doctrines, and idols. Receive TRUTH personally as the Living Reality of LIFE and start LIVING a WAY of LIFE in TRUTH rather than talking to imaginary supernatural characters and following idols and gods made in the image of any individual man.

There is no counsel or understanding against the Lord. All against Him fails in death.

Lies and liars cannot stand against the TRUTH unless they call the TRUTH a lie and crucify it in their hearts and minds as evil. Truth dies daily in the hearts of liars who keep rejecting it. Truth forgives them for their stupidity and ignorance because they have no clue what they are doing.

If you are agaisnt Him, He is against you though He gives you time under mercy desirign that you will repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved from Hell.

No one can be against any invisible supernatural characters any more than you are against any mythical Greek gods or against fairies. You are not killing them by not believing in them. They continue to exist in fantasy land and always will.
People can however stand against truth in reality without even realizing they are making a mistake. They do it because they see the truth as a lie, they see good as evil and think they are doing something good by getting rid of it. They have no clue their own perception of Truth is twisted and warped.
Believing in Jesus is not about believing in an invisible supernatural character or worshiping a character and following him. It is about believing Truth and Living a life of truth and honesty and speaking to others in love in spite of knowing they will most likely see what you say as evil and offensive and even blasphemous.

God is a PROCESS of living. It is a WAY of LIFE in TRUTH.
Believe it and live it and you will stop worshiping any idols including the idol named Jesus.

God is not a man named Jesus or the son of man named Jesus.
God is the Truth.
Truth ( Father) reproduces Truth ( Son) after its own kind. Truth is the only offspring (only begotten son) of Truth. It can produce nothing but Truth.
When you abide in Truth/reality you will understand that. Those who live in fantasy land will never understand it.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/9/2014 2:52:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 1:54:18 PM, tabularasa wrote:
At 12/9/2014 1:39:56 PM, Skyangel wrote:

Take "God is love" to mean "God loves humanity/creation" or "Love is one of god's attributes.

Please define God. When you say God loves humanity, are you implying that a supernatural character loves us and love is just one of the characters attributes?

I can say Mother Nature loves humanity and that would be the same as saying God loves humanity but I am not talking about any supernatural character in reality I am talking about a process in which life provides for life.

The definition of God is up for debate. "God is love" defines God by one of his possible attributes: love. I would simply define God as creator of all possible universes. Whether love is one of God's attributes, and whether this can be demonstrated by an argument is what I am trying to find out.

I am not asking you to debate it. I am asking you to explain how you perceive it.
Are you saying a supernatural character loves humanity or are you saying Life loves humanity?
Is love a characteristic of a supernatural character or is love a characteristic of Life?
Did a supernatural character create the universe or did Life/ Energy create the universe?

Love is a human attitude and attribute.
We observe it in action through humans. We do not observe it in action in any invisible characters. We can only imagine it exists in any fictional character we decide to attribute with those characteristics.

To argue whether any invisible character is love or is loving is as silly as arguing whether Mother Nature is love itself or is just a loving character who is also pretty mean and unloving at times.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/9/2014 3:05:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 2:31:45 PM, tabularasa wrote:
At 12/9/2014 1:33:02 PM, Skyangel wrote:

Love in that sense has two ways of looking at it. It has the adult way of seeing it and the childish way of seeing it. Children do not understand love when it makes them feel restricted or bad about what they did. They see that as hate not as love.
There are at least two sides to anything and two ways to perceive it. in order to appreciate the whole picture you need to embrace both sides of it. We need to take the good with the bad and understand that opposites need each other to make the whole.

Love/Hate are simply two sides of the same coin called Love.
Life/death are two sides of the same coin called Life.
God/Devil are two sides of the same coin called God.


The coin can always be perceived in opposite ways.

There is a positive and negative side to all things.

If you want God to be all love and no hate then you end up with only half a God.
Accepting only the positive side of someone or something is unreasonable and unrealistic.
It is like someone only accepting you if you were always positive and never said a negative word to them, never corrected them for anything and never made them feel foolish, bad or guilty about anything. It is unrealistic to believe anything at all exists with only one side to it.

So tell me if I am understanding your argument...

1. Things as we perceive them to exist in the world reflect the nature of God.

Correct. It is both good and evil. It is composed of all opposites which make up the whole.

2. This is true because creation is an expression of God's "personality" or "essence".

Creation is an expression of itself. It is not an expression of anything or anyone but itself. Not all creation has a personality in the human sense of a personality. What personality does a plant have? The essence of life is not a personality of any kind, not a human personality and not a superhuman personality. It is a process, an energy, a force which keeps recycling itself.

3. Since both good and evil are present in the world, and 1 and 2 are true, God must be a mixture of both. (this holds true for love/hate, etc.)

Yes God/ Life is a mixture of both good and evil and "created" humans and all other living things in its own image as a mixture of both good and evil. It takes both sides to complete the "whole coin" which is ultimately good.
Benshapiro
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12/9/2014 3:19:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 2:02:24 AM, tabularasa wrote:
At 12/8/2014 11:22:35 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
God is love because our moral code follows a code of love. We have a moral purpose incentivized towards maximum love and disencentived away from lovelessness. This incentive mechanism that guides our purposeful behavior is our conscience. It follows that if objective morality exists, it is indefinitely true that we ought to maximize love and minimize lovelessness. It is indefinitely true that love is a better purpose than a purpose of lovelessness. This can only be indefinitely true if there is a maximum, intentional love that grounds the truth or intent behind this objective purpose.

So you are saying that because our conscience points towards love as the highest good that this is proof that the Creator is loving by his nature? Do you mind filling in the gaps for me? I don't understand the causal relationship between a conscience and God's nature.

Yes because we know that we ought have the most loving purpose that we possibly can. It is indefinitely true that a purpose to love is better than a purpose to hate. The objectivity of this truth is grounded in some arbiter of human purpose. It can't be indefinitely true that we ought to love rather than hate if we have a purposeless existence. This would necessarily follow if God doesn't exist.
kjw47
Posts: 1,624
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12/9/2014 3:19:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 2:52:51 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/9/2014 1:54:18 PM, tabularasa wrote:
At 12/9/2014 1:39:56 PM, Skyangel wrote:

Take "God is love" to mean "God loves humanity/creation" or "Love is one of god's attributes.

Please define God. When you say God loves humanity, are you implying that a supernatural character loves us and love is just one of the characters attributes?

I can say Mother Nature loves humanity and that would be the same as saying God loves humanity but I am not talking about any supernatural character in reality I am talking about a process in which life provides for life.

The definition of God is up for debate. "God is love" defines God by one of his possible attributes: love. I would simply define God as creator of all possible universes. Whether love is one of God's attributes, and whether this can be demonstrated by an argument is what I am trying to find out.

I am not asking you to debate it. I am asking you to explain how you perceive it.
Are you saying a supernatural character loves humanity or are you saying Life loves humanity?
Is love a characteristic of a supernatural character or is love a characteristic of Life?
Did a supernatural character create the universe or did Life/ Energy create the universe?

Love is a human attitude and attribute.
We observe it in action through humans. We do not observe it in action in any invisible characters. We can only imagine it exists in any fictional character we decide to attribute with those characteristics.

To argue whether any invisible character is love or is loving is as silly as arguing whether Mother Nature is love itself or is just a loving character who is also pretty mean and unloving at times.

God(YHWH(Jehovah) created the heavens and the earth. He created them through Jesus( Gods master worker) Proverbs 8) Collosians 1:15,16)
Is God Love--yes he is if you know him.
God created mortals( Adam and Eve) handed them it all on a silver platter-- eternal life, no sickness, diseases, hate, greed, lusts, pain, fear, starvation, etc. A loving existence--- a rebellious higher up angel rebelled and mislead Eve into rebellion--Adam followed Eve. A single sin not to do in existence for mortals to have all the above good things forever. The good things above is what Gods will is--- the issues raised against Gods sovereignty had to be settled once and for all time, it is almost done--living to do all of Gods will now( Matt 7:21) gets one entrance into Gods kingdom( saved)
By telling Eve they would become like God, knowing good and bad--he was saying mortals wouldn't need Gods advice if we knew both sides of the coin. It has been proven, we all seriously need God--Infact--Gods kingdom is mankinds only remaining hope.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/9/2014 4:53:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 3:19:44 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/9/2014 2:02:24 AM, tabularasa wrote:
At 12/8/2014 11:22:35 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
God is love because our moral code follows a code of love. We have a moral purpose incentivized towards maximum love and disencentived away from lovelessness. This incentive mechanism that guides our purposeful behavior is our conscience. It follows that if objective morality exists, it is indefinitely true that we ought to maximize love and minimize lovelessness. It is indefinitely true that love is a better purpose than a purpose of lovelessness. This can only be indefinitely true if there is a maximum, intentional love that grounds the truth or intent behind this objective purpose.

So you are saying that because our conscience points towards love as the highest good that this is proof that the Creator is loving by his nature? Do you mind filling in the gaps for me? I don't understand the causal relationship between a conscience and God's nature.

Yes because we know that we ought have the most loving purpose that we possibly can. It is indefinitely true that a purpose to love is better than a purpose to hate. The objectivity of this truth is grounded in some arbiter of human purpose. It can't be indefinitely true that we ought to love rather than hate if we have a purposeless existence. This would necessarily follow if God doesn't exist.

Love/Hate are two sides of the same coin. You cannot just love everything. Are you going to love evil or hate evil? If hate did not exist how could you hate evil? Love creates hate. When you love that which is perceived by you as good, you automatically hate that which is perceived by you as the opposite of good. Therefore you become a hater of many things as well as a lover of many things. You end up being a character who loves and hates different things at the very same time.

All people who see things the same way as you do would perceive you as good. All who see things the opposite way that you do,would perceive you as evil and ignorant . Such is life. That principle applies to all people regardless of whether they call good evil or call evil good or not.

Fools call themselves wise to try to put on a show of superiority and the wise call themselves fools to try to put on a show of humility. Both sides are simply putting on a show. All are actors in the game of life. It makes no difference if you are a believer in a supernatural character and a lover of that character or not.
If you do not believe something exists you cannot have any love or hate for it. You can only love or hate something if you believe it exists you have a good reason to love or hate it.

Human conscience is the God within us. It is what tells us if we are doing right or wrong, being good or bad. It also depends on what culture we were brought up in. What is perceived as good in some cultures is perceived as bad in others.
It has nothing to do with obeying any supernatural characters or any one specific cultural laws, religious or otherwise.

There is always a time to heal and there is also always a time to destroy.
You cannot cure an illness without destroying the thing that caused the illness.
You cannot cure people of stupidity without destroying their stupidity.

You cannot cure people of a belief in imaginary characters without destroying the belief in imaginary characters.

The delusional who love their delusions don't want to be cured of them. They see the cure as a threat to their reality. They see it as a bad thing not as a good thing.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/9/2014 5:20:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 3:19:48 PM, kjw47 wrote:
At 12/9/2014 2:52:51 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/9/2014 1:54:18 PM, tabularasa wrote:
At 12/9/2014 1:39:56 PM, Skyangel wrote:

Take "God is love" to mean "God loves humanity/creation" or "Love is one of god's attributes.

Please define God. When you say God loves humanity, are you implying that a supernatural character loves us and love is just one of the characters attributes?

I can say Mother Nature loves humanity and that would be the same as saying God loves humanity but I am not talking about any supernatural character in reality I am talking about a process in which life provides for life.

The definition of God is up for debate. "God is love" defines God by one of his possible attributes: love. I would simply define God as creator of all possible universes. Whether love is one of God's attributes, and whether this can be demonstrated by an argument is what I am trying to find out.

I am not asking you to debate it. I am asking you to explain how you perceive it.
Are you saying a supernatural character loves humanity or are you saying Life loves humanity?
Is love a characteristic of a supernatural character or is love a characteristic of Life?
Did a supernatural character create the universe or did Life/ Energy create the universe?

Love is a human attitude and attribute.
We observe it in action through humans. We do not observe it in action in any invisible characters. We can only imagine it exists in any fictional character we decide to attribute with those characteristics.

To argue whether any invisible character is love or is loving is as silly as arguing whether Mother Nature is love itself or is just a loving character who is also pretty mean and unloving at times.


God(YHWH(Jehovah) created the heavens and the earth. He created them through Jesus( Gods master worker) Proverbs 8) Collosians 1:15,16)

God(YHWH/ Jehovah/ Mother Nature/ Reality) created the heavens and the earth. He/she/it created them through REALITY/ TRUTH ( Jesus/Gods master worker)
Reality/fantasy creates reality/fantasy in the image of reality/fantasy
Such is life in reality/fantasy.
Imagination exists in human life forms.

Is God Love--yes he is if you know him.

What about if you don't know him? Does he then turn into something else like the hate or evil or the devil ?

Is Mother Nature also Love to those who know her? She does provide food for all of her offspring after all.

God created mortals( Adam and Eve) handed them it all on a silver platter-- eternal life, no sickness, diseases, hate, greed, lusts, pain, fear, starvation, etc. A loving existence--- a rebellious higher up angel rebelled and mislead Eve into rebellion--Adam followed Eve. A single sin not to do in existence for mortals to have all the above good things forever. The good things above is what Gods will is--- the issues raised against Gods sovereignty had to be settled once and for all time, it is almost done--living to do all of Gods will now( Matt 7:21) gets one entrance into Gods kingdom( saved)

Saved from what? Saved from being educated? Saved from knowledge of good and evil?
If you do not know what is evil how can you know what is good? With what would you compare Love if Hate did not exist? With what would you compare good is evil did not exist? How would you know that love was love or that good was indeed good?
In the grave no one will ever experience, sickness, diseases, hate, pain, torment, etc etc again. Those things are experienced by the living not by the dead. The dead rest in peace. Death is a gift which releases us from pain and torment. It is not some punishment for not believing in supernatural characters or a punishment for disobeying their command to not partake of knowledge.

By telling Eve they would become like God, knowing good and bad--he was saying mortals wouldn't need Gods advice if we knew both sides of the coin. It has been proven, we all seriously need God--Infact--Gods kingdom is mankinds only remaining hope.

What a load of illogical garbage. You are like God if you know the difference between good and evil and you still think you desperately need God, so does your knowledge of good end evil make you believe you don't need Gods advice? Maybe you have not partaken of the tree of knowledge at all and that is why you still need to take the advice of imaginary supernatural characters. You are obviously still gullible enough to believe they exist. I suggest you take the advice of the adults who stopped believing in imaginary invisible friends long ago.

TRUTH is your only hope. Only TRUTH can set you free from your self deceptions. Accept it and you will be free. Reject it and you will remain delusional. That is not a threat or a promise but simply a fact. Those are the consequences of the actions or accepting or rejecting truth and reality. People who reject reality consequently end up living in fantasy land believing in invisible friends and worshiping idols.
kjw47
Posts: 1,624
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12/9/2014 8:07:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 5:20:03 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/9/2014 3:19:48 PM, kjw47 wrote:
At 12/9/2014 2:52:51 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/9/2014 1:54:18 PM, tabularasa wrote:
At 12/9/2014 1:39:56 PM, Skyangel wrote:

Take "God is love" to mean "God loves humanity/creation" or "Love is one of god's attributes.

Please define God. When you say God loves humanity, are you implying that a supernatural character loves us and love is just one of the characters attributes?

I can say Mother Nature loves humanity and that would be the same as saying God loves humanity but I am not talking about any supernatural character in reality I am talking about a process in which life provides for life.

The definition of God is up for debate. "God is love" defines God by one of his possible attributes: love. I would simply define God as creator of all possible universes. Whether love is one of God's attributes, and whether this can be demonstrated by an argument is what I am trying to find out.

I am not asking you to debate it. I am asking you to explain how you perceive it.
Are you saying a supernatural character loves humanity or are you saying Life loves humanity?
Is love a characteristic of a supernatural character or is love a characteristic of Life?
Did a supernatural character create the universe or did Life/ Energy create the universe?

Love is a human attitude and attribute.
We observe it in action through humans. We do not observe it in action in any invisible characters. We can only imagine it exists in any fictional character we decide to attribute with those characteristics.

To argue whether any invisible character is love or is loving is as silly as arguing whether Mother Nature is love itself or is just a loving character who is also pretty mean and unloving at times.


God(YHWH(Jehovah) created the heavens and the earth. He created them through Jesus( Gods master worker) Proverbs 8) Collosians 1:15,16)

God(YHWH/ Jehovah/ Mother Nature/ Reality) created the heavens and the earth. He/she/it created them through REALITY/ TRUTH ( Jesus/Gods master worker)
Reality/fantasy creates reality/fantasy in the image of reality/fantasy
Such is life in reality/fantasy.
Imagination exists in human life forms.


Is God Love--yes he is if you know him.

What about if you don't know him? Does he then turn into something else like the hate or evil or the devil ?

Is Mother Nature also Love to those who know her? She does provide food for all of her offspring after all.


God created mortals( Adam and Eve) handed them it all on a silver platter-- eternal life, no sickness, diseases, hate, greed, lusts, pain, fear, starvation, etc. A loving existence--- a rebellious higher up angel rebelled and mislead Eve into rebellion--Adam followed Eve. A single sin not to do in existence for mortals to have all the above good things forever. The good things above is what Gods will is--- the issues raised against Gods sovereignty had to be settled once and for all time, it is almost done--living to do all of Gods will now( Matt 7:21) gets one entrance into Gods kingdom( saved)

Saved from what? Saved from being educated? Saved from knowledge of good and evil?
If you do not know what is evil how can you know what is good? With what would you compare Love if Hate did not exist? With what would you compare good is evil did not exist? How would you know that love was love or that good was indeed good?
In the grave no one will ever experience, sickness, diseases, hate, pain, torment, etc etc again. Those things are experienced by the living not by the dead. The dead rest in peace. Death is a gift which releases us from pain and torment. It is not some punishment for not believing in supernatural characters or a punishment for disobeying their command to not partake of knowledge.



By telling Eve they would become like God, knowing good and bad--he was saying mortals wouldn't need Gods advice if we knew both sides of the coin. It has been proven, we all seriously need God--Infact--Gods kingdom is mankinds only remaining hope.

What a load of illogical garbage. You are like God if you know the difference between good and evil and you still think you desperately need God, so does your knowledge of good end evil make you believe you don't need Gods advice? Maybe you have not partaken of the tree of knowledge at all and that is why you still need to take the advice of imaginary supernatural characters. You are obviously still gullible enough to believe they exist. I suggest you take the advice of the adults who stopped believing in imaginary invisible friends long ago.

TRUTH is your only hope. Only TRUTH can set you free from your self deceptions. Accept it and you will be free. Reject it and you will remain delusional. That is not a threat or a promise but simply a fact. Those are the consequences of the actions or accepting or rejecting truth and reality. People who reject reality consequently end up living in fantasy land believing in invisible friends and worshiping idols.

God saw it was no good for flesh( mortal) to know bad. He is right.
kjw47
Posts: 1,624
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12/9/2014 8:12:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 5:20:03 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/9/2014 3:19:48 PM, kjw47 wrote:
At 12/9/2014 2:52:51 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/9/2014 1:54:18 PM, tabularasa wrote:
At 12/9/2014 1:39:56 PM, Skyangel wrote:

Take "God is love" to mean "God loves humanity/creation" or "Love is one of god's attributes.

Please define God. When you say God loves humanity, are you implying that a supernatural character loves us and love is just one of the characters attributes?

I can say Mother Nature loves humanity and that would be the same as saying God loves humanity but I am not talking about any supernatural character in reality I am talking about a process in which life provides for life.

The definition of God is up for debate. "God is love" defines God by one of his possible attributes: love. I would simply define God as creator of all possible universes. Whether love is one of God's attributes, and whether this can be demonstrated by an argument is what I am trying to find out.

I am not asking you to debate it. I am asking you to explain how you perceive it.
Are you saying a supernatural character loves humanity or are you saying Life loves humanity?
Is love a characteristic of a supernatural character or is love a characteristic of Life?
Did a supernatural character create the universe or did Life/ Energy create the universe?

Love is a human attitude and attribute.
We observe it in action through humans. We do not observe it in action in any invisible characters. We can only imagine it exists in any fictional character we decide to attribute with those characteristics.

To argue whether any invisible character is love or is loving is as silly as arguing whether Mother Nature is love itself or is just a loving character who is also pretty mean and unloving at times.


God(YHWH(Jehovah) created the heavens and the earth. He created them through Jesus( Gods master worker) Proverbs 8) Collosians 1:15,16)

God(YHWH/ Jehovah/ Mother Nature/ Reality) created the heavens and the earth. He/she/it created them through REALITY/ TRUTH ( Jesus/Gods master worker)
Reality/fantasy creates reality/fantasy in the image of reality/fantasy
Such is life in reality/fantasy.
Imagination exists in human life forms.


Is God Love--yes he is if you know him.

What about if you don't know him? Does he then turn into something else like the hate or evil or the devil ?

Is Mother Nature also Love to those who know her? She does provide food for all of her offspring after all.


God created mortals( Adam and Eve) handed them it all on a silver platter-- eternal life, no sickness, diseases, hate, greed, lusts, pain, fear, starvation, etc. A loving existence--- a rebellious higher up angel rebelled and mislead Eve into rebellion--Adam followed Eve. A single sin not to do in existence for mortals to have all the above good things forever. The good things above is what Gods will is--- the issues raised against Gods sovereignty had to be settled once and for all time, it is almost done--living to do all of Gods will now( Matt 7:21) gets one entrance into Gods kingdom( saved)

Saved from what? Saved from being educated? Saved from knowledge of good and evil?
If you do not know what is evil how can you know what is good? With what would you compare Love if Hate did not exist? With what would you compare good is evil did not exist? How would you know that love was love or that good was indeed good?
In the grave no one will ever experience, sickness, diseases, hate, pain, torment, etc etc again. Those things are experienced by the living not by the dead. The dead rest in peace. Death is a gift which releases us from pain and torment. It is not some punishment for not believing in supernatural characters or a punishment for disobeying their command to not partake of knowledge.



By telling Eve they would become like God, knowing good and bad--he was saying mortals wouldn't need Gods advice if we knew both sides of the coin. It has been proven, we all seriously need God--Infact--Gods kingdom is mankinds only remaining hope.

What a load of illogical garbage. You are like God if you know the difference between good and evil and you still think you desperately need God, so does your knowledge of good end evil make you believe you don't need Gods advice? Maybe you have not partaken of the tree of knowledge at all and that is why you still need to take the advice of imaginary supernatural characters. You are obviously still gullible enough to believe they exist. I suggest you take the advice of the adults who stopped believing in imaginary invisible friends long ago.

TRUTH is your only hope. Only TRUTH can set you free from your self deceptions. Accept it and you will be free. Reject it and you will remain delusional. That is not a threat or a promise but simply a fact. Those are the consequences of the actions or accepting or rejecting truth and reality. People who reject reality consequently end up living in fantasy land believing in invisible friends and worshiping idols.

The world hates truth--Jesus apostles and Christians were killed because they didn't like the truth-- they didn't kill them for teaching--love, peace, unity, and the good news of Gods kingdom--but for exposing the table of demons( 1Cor 10:21) that 99% were partaking of in the traditions and celebrations. And 99% of the rest of the gods were false gods.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/9/2014 10:28:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 8:07:31 PM, kjw47 wrote:
At 12/9/2014 5:20:03 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/9/2014 3:19:48 PM, kjw47 wrote:
At 12/9/2014 2:52:51 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/9/2014 1:54:18 PM, tabularasa wrote:
At 12/9/2014 1:39:56 PM, Skyangel wrote:

Take "God is love" to mean "God loves humanity/creation" or "Love is one of god's attributes.

Please define God. When you say God loves humanity, are you implying that a supernatural character loves us and love is just one of the characters attributes?

I can say Mother Nature loves humanity and that would be the same as saying God loves humanity but I am not talking about any supernatural character in reality I am talking about a process in which life provides for life.

The definition of God is up for debate. "God is love" defines God by one of his possible attributes: love. I would simply define God as creator of all possible universes. Whether love is one of God's attributes, and whether this can be demonstrated by an argument is what I am trying to find out.

I am not asking you to debate it. I am asking you to explain how you perceive it.
Are you saying a supernatural character loves humanity or are you saying Life loves humanity?
Is love a characteristic of a supernatural character or is love a characteristic of Life?
Did a supernatural character create the universe or did Life/ Energy create the universe?

Love is a human attitude and attribute.
We observe it in action through humans. We do not observe it in action in any invisible characters. We can only imagine it exists in any fictional character we decide to attribute with those characteristics.

To argue whether any invisible character is love or is loving is as silly as arguing whether Mother Nature is love itself or is just a loving character who is also pretty mean and unloving at times.


God(YHWH(Jehovah) created the heavens and the earth. He created them through Jesus( Gods master worker) Proverbs 8) Collosians 1:15,16)

God(YHWH/ Jehovah/ Mother Nature/ Reality) created the heavens and the earth. He/she/it created them through REALITY/ TRUTH ( Jesus/Gods master worker)
Reality/fantasy creates reality/fantasy in the image of reality/fantasy
Such is life in reality/fantasy.
Imagination exists in human life forms.


Is God Love--yes he is if you know him.

What about if you don't know him? Does he then turn into something else like the hate or evil or the devil ?

Is Mother Nature also Love to those who know her? She does provide food for all of her offspring after all.


God created mortals( Adam and Eve) handed them it all on a silver platter-- eternal life, no sickness, diseases, hate, greed, lusts, pain, fear, starvation, etc. A loving existence--- a rebellious higher up angel rebelled and mislead Eve into rebellion--Adam followed Eve. A single sin not to do in existence for mortals to have all the above good things forever. The good things above is what Gods will is--- the issues raised against Gods sovereignty had to be settled once and for all time, it is almost done--living to do all of Gods will now( Matt 7:21) gets one entrance into Gods kingdom( saved)

Saved from what? Saved from being educated? Saved from knowledge of good and evil?
If you do not know what is evil how can you know what is good? With what would you compare Love if Hate did not exist? With what would you compare good is evil did not exist? How would you know that love was love or that good was indeed good?
In the grave no one will ever experience, sickness, diseases, hate, pain, torment, etc etc again. Those things are experienced by the living not by the dead. The dead rest in peace. Death is a gift which releases us from pain and torment. It is not some punishment for not believing in supernatural characters or a punishment for disobeying their command to not partake of knowledge.



By telling Eve they would become like God, knowing good and bad--he was saying mortals wouldn't need Gods advice if we knew both sides of the coin. It has been proven, we all seriously need God--Infact--Gods kingdom is mankinds only remaining hope.

What a load of illogical garbage. You are like God if you know the difference between good and evil and you still think you desperately need God, so does your knowledge of good end evil make you believe you don't need Gods advice? Maybe you have not partaken of the tree of knowledge at all and that is why you still need to take the advice of imaginary supernatural characters. You are obviously still gullible enough to believe they exist. I suggest you take the advice of the adults who stopped believing in imaginary invisible friends long ago.

TRUTH is your only hope. Only TRUTH can set you free from your self deceptions. Accept it and you will be free. Reject it and you will remain delusional. That is not a threat or a promise but simply a fact. Those are the consequences of the actions or accepting or rejecting truth and reality. People who reject reality consequently end up living in fantasy land believing in invisible friends and worshiping idols.


God saw it was no good for flesh( mortal) to know bad. He is right.

Then why create bad or evil in the first place?
God created it and God knew about it before any man did. If it was not good for man to know bad why even give man the opportunity to know bad? Why not just get rid of it so man never gets to know what God doesn't want them to know?

If you know that poison will kill your child, do you put poison in front of them and then tell them not to eat it because they will die if they do and then go and leave them to make a choice to eat or not to eat... or do you do the smart thing and keep it out of their reach so they cannot kill themselves with it in the first place?

If you don't want someone to know something, do you put the information that you don't want them to know, right in front of them and then tell them to not gain that knowledge contained in the information because it will destroy them?

I have a secret. It is hidden right in your sight in plain view. Whatever you do, don't try to find out what it is. Don't partake of it because the day you do, you will die. The knowledge will kill you. It's best if you do not know what I know.

Does that make you curious to find out what I know or will you just believe it is best if you don't know what I know and the whole idea of me knowing something you do not does not make you curious in any way at all?

Curiosity killed the cat. ...
It's a good thing cats have nine lives.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/9/2014 10:39:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 8:12:44 PM, kjw47 wrote:
At 12/9/2014 5:20:03 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/9/2014 3:19:48 PM, kjw47 wrote:

By telling Eve they would become like God, knowing good and bad--he was saying mortals wouldn't need Gods advice if we knew both sides of the coin. It has been proven, we all seriously need God--Infact--Gods kingdom is mankinds only remaining hope.

What a load of illogical garbage. You are like God if you know the difference between good and evil and you still think you desperately need God, so does your knowledge of good end evil make you believe you don't need Gods advice? Maybe you have not partaken of the tree of knowledge at all and that is why you still need to take the advice of imaginary supernatural characters. You are obviously still gullible enough to believe they exist. I suggest you take the advice of the adults who stopped believing in imaginary invisible friends long ago.

TRUTH is your only hope. Only TRUTH can set you free from your self deceptions. Accept it and you will be free. Reject it and you will remain delusional. That is not a threat or a promise but simply a fact. Those are the consequences of the actions or accepting or rejecting truth and reality. People who reject reality consequently end up living in fantasy land believing in invisible friends and worshiping idols.



The world hates truth--Jesus apostles and Christians were killed because they didn't like the truth-- they didn't kill them for teaching--love, peace, unity, and the good news of Gods kingdom--but for exposing the table of demons( 1Cor 10:21) that 99% were partaking of in the traditions and celebrations. And 99% of the rest of the gods were false gods.

100% of gods which are worshiped in religious institutions today are still false gods. They are nothing but idols which people bow down to and perform rituals to appease them. Religions still partake of religious traditions, religious rituals and celebrations. Christianity just joined the crowd of idolaters by introducing a new idol to worship.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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12/10/2014 2:52:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/8/2014 10:46:34 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 12/8/2014 10:43:48 PM, tabularasa wrote:
...the premise of Christianity: God is love. I am interested in hearing arguments for and against. I will remain friendly in this thread, but I may ask questions for the sake of greater clarity. Give me your best argument, I will not argue for or against. If this post is not hostile enough for your tastes, but you think you have a good argument, please post anyway! Atheists, agnostics, theists, Christians, Jews, Muslims, gay, straight, black, white...all are welcome!

I would even like to hear some people contest that "God is love" is the premise of Christianity. C'mon wit it.

Love, by definition, isn't God.

/thread.

Asserting God is love isn't asserting a semantic thesis.

/thread
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!