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Pope says dogs go to heaven

dee-em
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12/12/2014 6:49:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
It came from the top:

http://www.smh.com.au...

Pope Francis has given hope to gays, unmarried couples and advocates of the Big Bang theory. Now, he has endeared himself to dog lovers, animal-rights activists and vegans.

Trying to console a distraught little boy whose dog had died, Francis told him in a recent public appearance on St Peter's Square that "paradise is open to all of God's creatures."


Who let the dogs out?

If dogs get in, so do cats. If cats get in, so do guinea pigs. That means all animals have souls. Bye bye eating meat.

"Historically, the Catholic Church has never been clear on this question; it's all over the place, because it begs so many other questions," she said. "Where do mosquitoes go, for God's sake?"
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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12/13/2014 1:15:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/12/2014 11:29:43 PM, dee-em wrote:
* bump *

Maybe they're contemplating the possibility that God is a doG.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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12/13/2014 4:15:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/12/2014 6:49:46 PM, dee-em wrote:
It came from the top:

http://www.smh.com.au...

Pope Francis has given hope to gays, unmarried couples and advocates of the Big Bang theory. Now, he has endeared himself to dog lovers, animal-rights activists and vegans.

Trying to console a distraught little boy whose dog had died, Francis told him in a recent public appearance on St Peter's Square that "paradise is open to all of God's creatures."


Who let the dogs out?

If dogs get in, so do cats. If cats get in, so do guinea pigs. That means all animals have souls. Bye bye eating meat.

"Historically, the Catholic Church has never been clear on this question; it's all over the place, because it begs so many other questions," she said. "Where do mosquitoes go, for God's sake?"

Try logic. How does animals having souls mean you cannot eat them? If animals have souls then so do plants! Artichokes have hearts too!

And since God has given dominion (i.e. stewardship) of the earth to man ... That would mean we respect animals and treat them humanely through the process of raising them for food rather than abuse them as simple beasts.

I do appreciate that you have resorted to quoting yourself and claiming its me in your signature - typically dishonest stalking. I hope you enjoy the retort troll boy.
headphonegut
Posts: 4,122
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12/13/2014 4:19:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/12/2014 6:49:46 PM, dee-em wrote:
It came from the top:

http://www.smh.com.au...

Pope Francis has given hope to gays, unmarried couples and advocates of the Big Bang theory. Now, he has endeared himself to dog lovers, animal-rights activists and vegans.

Trying to console a distraught little boy whose dog had died, Francis told him in a recent public appearance on St Peter's Square that "paradise is open to all of God's creatures."


Who let the dogs out?

If dogs get in, so do cats. If cats get in, so do guinea pigs. That means all animals have souls. Bye bye eating meat.

"Historically, the Catholic Church has never been clear on this question; it's all over the place, because it begs so many other questions," she said. "Where do mosquitoes go, for God's sake?"

That pope is obviously a scoundrel and a liar.
crying to soldiers coming home to their dogs why do I torment myself with these videos?
dee-em
Posts: 6,444
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12/13/2014 5:20:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 4:15:42 AM, neutral wrote:
At 12/12/2014 6:49:46 PM, dee-em wrote:
It came from the top:

http://www.smh.com.au...

Pope Francis has given hope to gays, unmarried couples and advocates of the Big Bang theory. Now, he has endeared himself to dog lovers, animal-rights activists and vegans.

Trying to console a distraught little boy whose dog had died, Francis told him in a recent public appearance on St Peter's Square that "paradise is open to all of God's creatures."


Who let the dogs out?

If dogs get in, so do cats. If cats get in, so do guinea pigs. That means all animals have souls. Bye bye eating meat.

"Historically, the Catholic Church has never been clear on this question; it's all over the place, because it begs so many other questions," she said. "Where do mosquitoes go, for God's sake?"

Try logic. How does animals having souls mean you cannot eat them? If animals have souls then so do plants! Artichokes have hearts too!

And since God has given dominion (i.e. stewardship) of the earth to man ... That would mean we respect animals and treat them humanely through the process of raising them for food rather than abuse them as simple beasts.

I do appreciate that you have resorted to quoting yourself and claiming its me in your signature - typically dishonest stalking. I hope you enjoy the retort troll boy.

Here's the thing. People can see the truth for themselves regardless of you trying to say black is white. When they do see it, they look back to your dishonesty and your reputation, such as it is, suffers. But you keep right on pretending that you haven't made an enormous gaffe. It's your way.

However, since you did actually address the subject matter, and it's such a rare occurrence, I'll respond in a civil manner. You raise the issue of whether the eating of animals should be linked to whether or not they have a soul, putting your facetious artichoke comment to one side. I tend to agree that it is unlikely to change eating habits, even if this casual comment by the Pope became official doctrine. It may give some people pause though. If animals too have immortal souls then you will encounter them in an afterlife. They may not be too happy to have been eaten as food in the prime of their life. Perhaps they too wanted to live a full life and see their offspring grow up. Just saying.

Your comment about respecting animals by raising them as food for humans is best left alone. I'll just let it hang there. Perhaps you'll have an epiphany.
dee-em
Posts: 6,444
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12/13/2014 5:22:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 4:19:43 AM, headphonegut wrote:
At 12/12/2014 6:49:46 PM, dee-em wrote:
It came from the top:

http://www.smh.com.au...

Pope Francis has given hope to gays, unmarried couples and advocates of the Big Bang theory. Now, he has endeared himself to dog lovers, animal-rights activists and vegans.

Trying to console a distraught little boy whose dog had died, Francis told him in a recent public appearance on St Peter's Square that "paradise is open to all of God's creatures."


Who let the dogs out?

If dogs get in, so do cats. If cats get in, so do guinea pigs. That means all animals have souls. Bye bye eating meat.

"Historically, the Catholic Church has never been clear on this question; it's all over the place, because it begs so many other questions," she said. "Where do mosquitoes go, for God's sake?"

That pope is obviously a scoundrel and a liar.

How so?
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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12/13/2014 5:28:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/12/2014 6:49:46 PM, dee-em wrote:
It came from the top:

http://www.smh.com.au...

Pope Francis has given hope to gays, unmarried couples and advocates of the Big Bang theory. Now, he has endeared himself to dog lovers, animal-rights activists and vegans.

Trying to console a distraught little boy whose dog had died, Francis told him in a recent public appearance on St Peter's Square that "paradise is open to all of God's creatures."


Who let the dogs out?

If dogs get in, so do cats. If cats get in, so do guinea pigs. That means all animals have souls. Bye bye eating meat.

"Historically, the Catholic Church has never been clear on this question; it's all over the place, because it begs so many other questions," she said. "Where do mosquitoes go, for God's sake?"

The sure way to lose approval is to appeal to the disliked and hated members of society. I commend him for being more open minded than most. But he's still a pope. Pope's are as bad as politicians. My opinion only.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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12/13/2014 5:29:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 5:20:28 AM, dee-em wrote:


Here's the thing. People can see the truth for themselves regardless of you trying to say black is white. When they do see it, they look back to your dishonesty and your reputation, such as it is, suffers. But you keep right on pretending that you haven't made an enormous gaffe. It's your way.

Let's see if we can give the utterly confused troll here a lesson in how logic and actual argumentation works.

Thesis: neutral has made an enormous gaffe ... (that gaffe is .... we have no idea)

So how do you back up a claimed gaffe when you can't even spell it out troll boy?

However, since you did actually address the subject matter, and it's such a rare occurrence, I'll respond in a civil manner.

Too late for that ...

You raise the issue of whether the eating of animals should be linked to whether or not they have a soul, putting your facetious artichoke comment to one side.

Oh, so your slippery logic end when we make the leap from living animals to plants? Please logically explain yourself - if you are capable - as to why your slippery slope logic stops between animals and plants, especially as they are created with the same evolutionary processes. Made of the same organic material.

Or will you be unable to concede a point yet again?

I tend to agree that it is unlikely to change eating habits, even if this casual comment by the Pope became official doctrine. It may give some people pause though. If animals too have immortal souls then you will encounter them in an afterlife. They may not be too happy to have been eaten as food in the prime of their life. Perhaps they too wanted to live a full life and see their offspring grow up. Just saying.

Why? Again, you just completely ignored the fact that:

a. We have to eat, your slippery slope logic eventually encompasses everything we could possibly eat.

b. We are the stewards of the earth, and that means humane treatment of animals - not stop eating them.


Your comment about respecting animals by raising them as food for humans is best left alone. I'll just let it hang there. Perhaps you'll have an epiphany.

Its left alone because, as usual, when someone raises a countering argument you ignore it. Trolls of atheism are unable to concede points - particularly when their only interest is to goal Christians with no intent of understanding - so when a perfectly reasonable alternate comes up ... you do the troll of atheism thing ... and avoid it.

It must be nice to live in an anonymous bubble where only your opinion of other people's religion is what counts.

And of course, when someone starts a thread that bashes an atheist leader, you are among the first to scream foul! What villainy thy have inflicted upon us!

Much as the theatrics are entertaining, they are simply not logical - and when you find yourself ignoring religious people sounding all reasonable and such to retain your erroneous and silly positions instead?

Well, I realize that its a terrible concession to have to concede, "Well, that sounds reasonable." Best to ignore it completely and dismiss the reasonable and extremism.

YAYYY TROLLS OF ATHEISM!!!!
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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12/13/2014 5:53:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
'paradise is open to all God's creatures'.

So, this means its the Pope's slippery slope, not Dee's.

"How does animals having souls mean you cannot eat them? If animals have souls then so do plants! Artichokes have hearts too!"

Aritchokes aren't 'creatures'. I don't think any stretch of the imagination could call them them that.

"That would mean we respect animals and treat them humanely through the process of raising them for food rather than abuse them as simple beasts."

If they have a soul, then they aren't 'simple beasts'. As Beastt and I were discussing loosely in a previous topic, should this interesting qualifier be inherent to animals, the moral implications of killing an animal would be the same as killing a human. Before it gets brought up, killing then eating a human shouldn't be viewed differently.

"Oh, so your slippery logic end when we make the leap from living animals to plants?" --- No, your slippery slope by calling plants 'creatures'. Technically, the pope's by saying animals could get into heaven, though to be fair, that doesn't specifically mean they have souls, per say, just that there is nothing excluding them. God, magic, supernatural, lets face it, the rules are fast and loose.

" as to why your slippery slope logic stops between animals and plants" --- Pope's slope, that is the OP.

Souls get into heaven.
Lesser creatures (than human) get into heaven.
Lesser creatures (than human) must have souls.

Notice I keep saying creatures. It was the OP. Notice I am not saying Flora and Fauna or plants. Not in the OP.

"We are the stewards of the earth, and that means humane treatment of animals - not stop eating them."

So, since butchering something with a soul is cool, humanely kill your neighbor. Then eat him. We are our brother's keeper, a good steward of his care...
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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12/13/2014 6:14:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 4:15:42 AM, neutral wrote:
At 12/12/2014 6:49:46 PM, dee-em wrote:
It came from the top:

http://www.smh.com.au...

Pope Francis has given hope to gays, unmarried couples and advocates of the Big Bang theory. Now, he has endeared himself to dog lovers, animal-rights activists and vegans.

Trying to console a distraught little boy whose dog had died, Francis told him in a recent public appearance on St Peter's Square that "paradise is open to all of God's creatures."


Who let the dogs out?

If dogs get in, so do cats. If cats get in, so do guinea pigs. That means all animals have souls. Bye bye eating meat.

"Historically, the Catholic Church has never been clear on this question; it's all over the place, because it begs so many other questions," she said. "Where do mosquitoes go, for God's sake?"

Try logic. How does animals having souls mean you cannot eat them? If animals have souls then so do plants! Artichokes have hearts too!

This is an interesting concept you've somehow interpreted from the OP. If animals have souls, so do plants? How are we to even eat and maintain life and maintain clear moral values? We eat plants and animals. If humans have souls and animals have souls, and plants have souls, then I suppose it's safe to say that viruses and bacteria have souls too. The best argument ever made as to how ridiculous it is to say that humans have souls. Lol! How even the Pope contradicts! And then you add to the contradictions with your enthusiasm to refute anything an atheist says! Ha!

If you try to use logic to support your religious beliefs you will always contradict yourself. Why not admit that faith in a metaphysical existence can't be logically explained? It is what it is. It's not a bad thing. Why make it look bad with your arguments?

And since God has given dominion (i.e. stewardship) of the earth to man ... That would mean we respect animals and treat them humanely through the process of raising them for food rather than abuse them as simple beasts.

I do appreciate that you have resorted to quoting yourself and claiming its me in your signature - typically dishonest stalking. I hope you enjoy the retort troll boy.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
neutral
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12/13/2014 6:15:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 5:53:10 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
'paradise is open to all God's creatures'.

So, this means its the Pope's slippery slope, not Dee's.

Apparently logic alludes you yet again. Dee claims that we should not eat animals because they have souls (something the Pope does not say does he), but then stops at plants without explanation.

I appreciate the transference and the blind failure to follow logic and standards of simple accountability.

Its typically troll of atheism of you though.


"How does animals having souls mean you cannot eat them? If animals have souls then so do plants! Artichokes have hearts too!"

Aritchokes aren't 'creatures'. I don't think any stretch of the imagination could call them them that.

Oh, plants aren't alive?

Can you explain this arbitrary awarding of souls and not then? Of course not, that might make you address the problem.


"That would mean we respect animals and treat them humanely through the process of raising them for food rather than abuse them as simple beasts."

If they have a soul, then they aren't 'simple beasts'.

No sh*t, that is exactly what I am saying.

As Beastt and I were discussing loosely in a previous topic, should this interesting qualifier be inherent to animals, the moral implications of killing an animal would be the same as killing a human. Before it gets brought up, killing then eating a human shouldn't be viewed differently.

Why? because you say so? Again, the Bible is pretty clear that we have dominion and stewardship over the earth. We must eat to survive. Pretty simple. That might be why many cultures, ahem kosher for example, perform the butchering process with a spiritual relevance rather than simply avoid it altogether.


"Oh, so your slippery logic end when we make the leap from living animals to plants?" --- No, your slippery slope by calling plants 'creatures'. Technically, the pope's by saying animals could get into heaven, though to be fair, that doesn't specifically mean they have souls, per say, just that there is nothing excluding them. God, magic, supernatural, lets face it, the rules are fast and loose.

I call them alive and made of the same organic material.

Lets face it, you are simply being dishonest because you have no case, and, being a troll of atheism, cannot concede a point.

Like animals and plants being made of .. the same organic material and having been produced from the same evolutionary process.

Its just about crapping on Christians will the emotional hole that will never be filled by your need to crap on people.


" as to why your slippery slope logic stops between animals and plants" --- Pope's slope, that is the OP.

Souls get into heaven.
Lesser creatures (than human) get into heaven.
Lesser creatures (than human) must have souls.

And? That point has been conceded. Is your arrogance so strong, your narcissism so deep and abiding in its inability to concede a point that you cannot even recognize when someone has done so?


Notice I keep saying creatures. It was the OP. Notice I am not saying Flora and Fauna or plants. Not in the OP.

That is illogical. You accuse me of saying creatures, then reverse course. Its irrelevant to the point I am making. Its a dishonest and irrelevant qualifier that has no bearing on what the Pope said.


"We are the stewards of the earth, and that means humane treatment of animals - not stop eating them."

So, since butchering something with a soul is cool, humanely kill your neighbor. Then eat him. We are our brother's keeper, a good steward of his care...

That's logical. We call this an appeal to the extreme or ignorance.

Are humans raised for eating? What doe the Bible say about killing innocent human beings? Pick and choose and ...

... as you notice, I believe I have already objected to your use of stupid straw men positions and fraudulent BS as simple minded bigotry.

Can you engage in a civil discussion? Or must you rely on vacuous appeals to MURDER ala the trolls of atheism?

Nice science atheist.

24 " And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.
26 " And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29 " And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein [there is] life, [I have given] every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was] very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Really, you are unaware of the Genesis narrative? The ONLY chapter of the Bible the trolls of atheism are supposedly even familiar with? Why are pants and animals here on the earth? Why to sustain HUMANS!

But two trolls of atheism take ONE comment from the Pope and ignore everything else in their nihilistic bigot fest.
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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12/13/2014 6:18:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 6:14:04 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 12/13/2014 4:15:42 AM, neutral wrote:
At 12/12/2014 6:49:46 PM, dee-em wrote:
It came from the top:

http://www.smh.com.au...

Pope Francis has given hope to gays, unmarried couples and advocates of the Big Bang theory. Now, he has endeared himself to dog lovers, animal-rights activists and vegans.

Trying to console a distraught little boy whose dog had died, Francis told him in a recent public appearance on St Peter's Square that "paradise is open to all of God's creatures."


Who let the dogs out?

If dogs get in, so do cats. If cats get in, so do guinea pigs. That means all animals have souls. Bye bye eating meat.

"Historically, the Catholic Church has never been clear on this question; it's all over the place, because it begs so many other questions," she said. "Where do mosquitoes go, for God's sake?"

Try logic. How does animals having souls mean you cannot eat them? If animals have souls then so do plants! Artichokes have hearts too!

This is an interesting concept you've somehow interpreted from the OP. If animals have souls, so do plants? How are we to even eat and maintain life and maintain clear moral values? We eat plants and animals. If humans have souls and animals have souls, and plants have souls, then I suppose it's safe to say that viruses and bacteria have souls too. The best argument ever made as to how ridiculous it is to say that humans have souls. Lol! How even the Pope contradicts! And then you add to the contradictions with your enthusiasm to refute anything an atheist says! Ha!

If you try to use logic to support your religious beliefs you will always contradict yourself. Why not admit that faith in a metaphysical existence can't be logically explained? It is what it is. It's not a bad thing. Why make it look bad with your arguments?

And since God has given dominion (i.e. stewardship) of the earth to man ... That would mean we respect animals and treat them humanely through the process of raising them for food rather than abuse them as simple beasts.

I do appreciate that you have resorted to quoting yourself and claiming its me in your signature - typically dishonest stalking. I hope you enjoy the retort troll boy.

Please see above. Again, that you stop the slippery slope is YOUR problem not mine.

If everything was created of God, it is of God. Not a problem for me.

I recognize that things are created for purposes, or, if not, then they can be harnessed for purposes by the STEWARDS of the Earth.

Or do you entertain the reality that human activity does not heavily influence the earth and think we should subject ourselves to the rational ability to bacteria to be the proper stewards of the earth instead?

The only rational conclusion is that atheists are being inherently arbitrary here. As usual.
tabularasa
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12/13/2014 6:24:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Thomas Aquinas thought that all sentient and nonsentient matter had some form of soul. The pope is not saying anything new. This has been discussed since the 13th century, at the latest.
1. I already googled it.

2. Give me an argument. Spell it out. "You're wrong," is not an argument.
dee-em
Posts: 6,444
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12/13/2014 6:27:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 5:29:03 AM, neutral wrote:
At 12/13/2014 5:20:28 AM, dee-em wrote:


Here's the thing. People can see the truth for themselves regardless of you trying to say black is white. When they do see it, they look back to your dishonesty and your reputation, such as it is, suffers. But you keep right on pretending that you haven't made an enormous gaffe. It's your way.

Let's see if we can give the utterly confused troll here a lesson in how logic and actual argumentation works.

Thesis: neutral has made an enormous gaffe ... (that gaffe is .... we have no idea)

So how do you back up a claimed gaffe when you can't even spell it out troll boy?

The fact that you still don't get it makes it even more delicious.

However, since you did actually address the subject matter, and it's such a rare occurrence, I'll respond in a civil manner.

Too late for that ...

Well, you can't say I didn't try. Your choice.

You raise the issue of whether the eating of animals should be linked to whether or not they have a soul, putting your facetious artichoke comment to one side.

Oh, so your slippery logic end when we make the leap from living animals to plants? Please logically explain yourself - if you are capable - as to why your slippery slope logic stops between animals and plants, especially as they are created with the same evolutionary processes. Made of the same organic material.

Or will you be unable to concede a point yet again?

Your facetious remark was about artichokes having "hearts". Again, whoosh.

I tend to agree that it is unlikely to change eating habits, even if this casual comment by the Pope became official doctrine. It may give some people pause though. If animals too have immortal souls then you will encounter them in an afterlife. They may not be too happy to have been eaten as food in the prime of their life. Perhaps they too wanted to live a full life and see their offspring grow up. Just saying.

Why? Again, you just completely ignored the fact that:

a. We have to eat, your slippery slope logic eventually encompasses everything we could possibly eat.

It's not my slippery slope. Take it up with the Pope. Lol.

b. We are the stewards of the earth, and that means humane treatment of animals - not stop eating them.

You're quoting the Bible as an authority to an atheist? How does that work?

Your comment about respecting animals by raising them as food for humans is best left alone. I'll just let it hang there. Perhaps you'll have an epiphany.

< ranting snipped >
neutral
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12/13/2014 7:00:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 6:27:41 AM, dee-em wrote:


The fact that you still don't get it makes it even more delicious.

The irony of that statement is perfect. By all means troll boy, please spell out the position I have made vice the Pope.

That you for the delicious display of generalizing bigotry.

I'm quoting the Pope ... whom I believe in neutral ... and I am claiming its a gaffe without proving it!

hail ILLOGIC!!


Well, you can't say I didn't try. Your choice.

ROFL ... agh, self perfecting narcissism gotta love it.


Your facetious remark was about artichokes having "hearts". Again, whoosh.

You make a facetious claim about Christianity and then pointedly ignore rebuttal positions while pretending you are not?

Somehow plants are not alive? MUST NOT CONCEDE VALID POINT ... TOO PAINFUL .... EGO UNABLE TO BEND OR IT WILL BREAK AND I WILL WIND UP AS A DRUNK IN THE GUTTER ... MUST RESIST .... GUMMY BEAR


I tend to agree that it is unlikely to change eating habits, even if this casual comment by the Pope became official doctrine. It may give some people pause though. If animals too have immortal souls then you will encounter them in an afterlife. They may not be too happy to have been eaten as food in the prime of their life. Perhaps they too wanted to live a full life and see their offspring grow up. Just saying.

Why? Again, you just completely ignored the fact that:

a. We have to eat, your slippery slope logic eventually encompasses everything we could possibly eat.


It's not my slippery slope. Take it up with the Pope. Lol.

The Pope did not make YOUR statement. He does not have to defend YOUR position, you do troll boy.

b. We are the stewards of the earth, and that means humane treatment of animals - not stop eating them.

You're quoting the Bible as an authority to an atheist? How does that work?

The Pope ... Christianity ... UNABLE TO CONCEDE POINT .... HAVE ABANDONED ALL PRETENSE OF LOGIC AT THIS POINT .... GUMMY BEAR


Your comment about respecting animals by raising them as food for humans is best left alone. I'll just let it hang there. Perhaps you'll have an epiphany.

< ranting snipped >

As usual, no case. Love the never ending chip on shoulder mentality though.
neutral
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12/13/2014 7:02:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 6:14:04 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 12/13/2014 4:15:42 AM, neutral wrote:
At 12/12/2014 6:49:46 PM, dee-em wrote:
It came from the top:

http://www.smh.com.au...

Pope Francis has given hope to gays, unmarried couples and advocates of the Big Bang theory. Now, he has endeared himself to dog lovers, animal-rights activists and vegans.

Trying to console a distraught little boy whose dog had died, Francis told him in a recent public appearance on St Peter's Square that "paradise is open to all of God's creatures."


Who let the dogs out?

If dogs get in, so do cats. If cats get in, so do guinea pigs. That means all animals have souls. Bye bye eating meat.

"Historically, the Catholic Church has never been clear on this question; it's all over the place, because it begs so many other questions," she said. "Where do mosquitoes go, for God's sake?"

Try logic. How does animals having souls mean you cannot eat them? If animals have souls then so do plants! Artichokes have hearts too!

This is an interesting concept you've somehow interpreted from the OP. If animals have souls, so do plants? How are we to even eat and maintain life and maintain clear moral values? We eat plants and animals. If humans have souls and animals have souls, and plants have souls, then I suppose it's safe to say that viruses and bacteria have souls too. The best argument ever made as to how ridiculous it is to say that humans have souls. Lol! How even the Pope contradicts! And then you add to the contradictions with your enthusiasm to refute anything an atheist says! Ha!

If you try to use logic to support your religious beliefs you will always contradict yourself. Why not admit that faith in a metaphysical existence can't be logically explained? It is what it is. It's not a bad thing. Why make it look bad with your arguments?

And since God has given dominion (i.e. stewardship) of the earth to man ... That would mean we respect animals and treat them humanely through the process of raising them for food rather than abuse them as simple beasts.

I do appreciate that you have resorted to quoting yourself and claiming its me in your signature - typically dishonest stalking. I hope you enjoy the retort troll boy.

Again Jody, see above ... we can quote the Pope but not the Bible about Christianity ... Obviously when discussing Christian positions it makes NO SENSE to quote our own doctrine.

And you blindly defend these guys - never once take issue with this kind of illogic?
dee-em
Posts: 6,444
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12/13/2014 7:11:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 7:00:16 AM, neutral wrote:

Your inability to maintain a civil discussion for more than one post means I have to bid you adieu. Adieu.
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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12/13/2014 7:15:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 6:18:17 AM, neutral wrote:
At 12/13/2014 6:14:04 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 12/13/2014 4:15:42 AM, neutral wrote:
At 12/12/2014 6:49:46 PM, dee-em wrote:
It came from the top:

http://www.smh.com.au...

Pope Francis has given hope to gays, unmarried couples and advocates of the Big Bang theory. Now, he has endeared himself to dog lovers, animal-rights activists and vegans.

Trying to console a distraught little boy whose dog had died, Francis told him in a recent public appearance on St Peter's Square that "paradise is open to all of God's creatures."


Who let the dogs out?

If dogs get in, so do cats. If cats get in, so do guinea pigs. That means all animals have souls. Bye bye eating meat.

"Historically, the Catholic Church has never been clear on this question; it's all over the place, because it begs so many other questions," she said. "Where do mosquitoes go, for God's sake?"

Try logic. How does animals having souls mean you cannot eat them? If animals have souls then so do plants! Artichokes have hearts too!

This is an interesting concept you've somehow interpreted from the OP. If animals have souls, so do plants? How are we to even eat and maintain life and maintain clear moral values? We eat plants and animals. If humans have souls and animals have souls, and plants have souls, then I suppose it's safe to say that viruses and bacteria have souls too. The best argument ever made as to how ridiculous it is to say that humans have souls. Lol! How even the Pope contradicts! And then you add to the contradictions with your enthusiasm to refute anything an atheist says! Ha!

If you try to use logic to support your religious beliefs you will always contradict yourself. Why not admit that faith in a metaphysical existence can't be logically explained? It is what it is. It's not a bad thing. Why make it look bad with your arguments?

And since God has given dominion (i.e. stewardship) of the earth to man ... That would mean we respect animals and treat them humanely through the process of raising them for food rather than abuse them as simple beasts.

I do appreciate that you have resorted to quoting yourself and claiming its me in your signature - typically dishonest stalking. I hope you enjoy the retort troll boy.

Please see above. Again, that you stop the slippery slope is YOUR problem not mine.

If everything was created of God, it is of God. Not a problem for me.

I recognize that things are created for purposes, or, if not, then they can be harnessed for purposes by the STEWARDS of the Earth.

Or do you entertain the reality that human activity does not heavily influence the earth and think we should subject ourselves to the rational ability to bacteria to be the proper stewards of the earth instead?

The only rational conclusion is that atheists are being inherently arbitrary here. As usual.

What slippery slope? Send a letter to the pope! It's not my issue so don't project that nonsense onto me. I'm not the one saying dogs go to heaven. :)

I entertain no other reality than the reality that is made evident by the natural universe. Metaphysics are a philosophical concept that cannot be rationalized through non biased discussions and will only be debunked as pure fantasy if compared to tangible objects and our physical interactions with things such as dogs, plants, rocks, etc. It can never be rationalized. That is all.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
Thanksfornotraping
Posts: 238
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12/13/2014 7:36:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/12/2014 6:49:46 PM, dee-em wrote:
It came from the top:

http://www.smh.com.au...

Pope Francis has given hope to gays, unmarried couples and advocates of the Big Bang theory. Now, he has endeared himself to dog lovers, animal-rights activists and vegans.

Trying to console a distraught little boy whose dog had died, Francis told him in a recent public appearance on St Peter's Square that "paradise is open to all of God's creatures."


Who let the dogs out?

If dogs get in, so do cats. If cats get in, so do guinea pigs. That means all animals have souls. Bye bye eating meat.

"Historically, the Catholic Church has never been clear on this question; it's all over the place, because it begs so many other questions," she said. "Where do mosquitoes go, for God's sake?"

I just KNEW it! Thank Allah the pope knows these things, eh? Otherwise we'd just be guessing at these things! ;)
bulproof
Posts: 25,184
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12/13/2014 7:38:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The alternative is that god created millions upon millions of life forms with no purpose at all, it's just little old you who has purpose.

The universe YAY.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
dee-em
Posts: 6,444
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12/13/2014 7:41:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 7:36:45 AM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 12/12/2014 6:49:46 PM, dee-em wrote:
It came from the top:

http://www.smh.com.au...

Pope Francis has given hope to gays, unmarried couples and advocates of the Big Bang theory. Now, he has endeared himself to dog lovers, animal-rights activists and vegans.

Trying to console a distraught little boy whose dog had died, Francis told him in a recent public appearance on St Peter's Square that "paradise is open to all of God's creatures."


Who let the dogs out?

If dogs get in, so do cats. If cats get in, so do guinea pigs. That means all animals have souls. Bye bye eating meat.

"Historically, the Catholic Church has never been clear on this question; it's all over the place, because it begs so many other questions," she said. "Where do mosquitoes go, for God's sake?"

I just KNEW it! Thank Allah the pope knows these things, eh? Otherwise we'd just be guessing at these things! ;)

He's infallible too, don'tcha know?
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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12/13/2014 8:05:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 6:15:46 AM, neutral wrote:
At 12/13/2014 5:53:10 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
'paradise is open to all God's creatures'.

So, this means its the Pope's slippery slope, not Dee's.

Apparently logic alludes you yet again. Dee claims that we should not eat animals because they have souls (something the Pope does not say does he), but then stops at plants without explanation.

Because the pope didn't mention plants, he mentioned 'creatures'. You, however DID mention plants.

I appreciate the transference and the blind failure to follow logic and standards of simple accountability.

Creatures, Neutral. Word for word. Creatures.


Its typically troll of atheism of you though.


"How does animals having souls mean you cannot eat them? If animals have souls then so do plants! Artichokes have hearts too!"

Aritchokes aren't 'creatures'. I don't think any stretch of the imagination could call them them that.

Oh, plants aren't alive?

CREATURES, NEUTRAL. WORD FOR WORD. CREATURES.

Can you explain this arbitrary awarding of souls and not then? Of course not, that might make you address the problem.

You mean the pope's problem. That was the point of the OP. Souls being arbitrarily awarded to all God's creatures.


"That would mean we respect animals and treat them humanely through the process of raising them for food rather than abuse them as simple beasts."

If they have a soul, then they aren't 'simple beasts'.

No sh*t, that is exactly what I am saying.

Yes, and previously you call 'alive' tantamount to being a creature. Forgive me if I want clarification.

As Beastt and I were discussing loosely in a previous topic, should this interesting qualifier be inherent to animals, the moral implications of killing an animal would be the same as killing a human. Before it gets brought up, killing then eating a human shouldn't be viewed differently.

Why? because you say so?

No, it morally follows.

Again, the Bible is pretty clear that we have dominion and stewardship over the earth. We must eat to survive. Pretty simple. That might be why many cultures, ahem kosher for example, perform the butchering process with a spiritual relevance rather than simply avoid it altogether.

And since the the pope has decreed that all creatures have a chance at God's kingdom (possibly have a soul?) we should probably not hasten that crossing. There are other options that DON'T have souls. Things that aren't creatures that we can eat just as well. At least, thats what would morally follow.


"Oh, so your slippery logic end when we make the leap from living animals to plants?" --- No, your slippery slope by calling plants 'creatures'. Technically, the pope's by saying animals could get into heaven, though to be fair, that doesn't specifically mean they have souls, per say, just that there is nothing excluding them. God, magic, supernatural, lets face it, the rules are fast and loose.

I call them alive and made of the same organic material.

Do you call carrots 'creatures'?

Lets face it, you are simply being dishonest because you have no case, and, being a troll of atheism, cannot concede a point.

Do you call carrots 'creatures'?

Like animals and plants being made of .. the same organic material and having been produced from the same evolutionary process.

Do you call carrots 'creatures'?

Its just about crapping on Christians will the emotional hole that will never be filled by your need to crap on people.

Sure, champ.



" as to why your slippery slope logic stops between animals and plants" --- Pope's slope, that is the OP.

Souls get into heaven.
Lesser creatures (than human) get into heaven.
Lesser creatures (than human) must have souls.

And? That point has been conceded. Is your arrogance so strong, your narcissism so deep and abiding in its inability to concede a point that you cannot even recognize when someone has done so?

Further questions and situations might follow, its not belaboring the point, though I admit, flirts with it mightily.


Notice I keep saying creatures. It was the OP. Notice I am not saying Flora and Fauna or plants. Not in the OP.

That is illogical. You accuse me of saying creatures,

No, I am accusing you of equating carrots to turtles. Flora to Animal.

then reverse course. Its irrelevant to the point I am making. Its a dishonest and irrelevant qualifier that has no bearing on what the Pope said.

I reverse course by referring to what the pope said, because it is dishonest, and irrelevant qualifier to what the pope said. Again, I ask, do you read my posts, or just what you want to?


"We are the stewards of the earth, and that means humane treatment of animals - not stop eating them."

So, since butchering something with a soul is cool, humanely kill your neighbor. Then eat him. We are our brother's keeper, a good steward of his care...

That's logical. We call this an appeal to the extreme or ignorance.

It morally follows. If it morally doesn't, please demonstrate.

Are humans raised for eating? What doe the Bible say about killing innocent human beings? Pick and choose and ...

Pick and choose what has souls and pick and choose.... that is the point of the OP, bro-ski. "We must eat to survive. Pretty simple"

... as you notice, I believe I have already objected to your use of stupid straw men positions and fraudulent BS as simple minded bigotry.

I also notice you object to a lot of stuff I never even made mention of, or was never my argument to begin with. One of these days you might land on something appropriate to object too, broken clocks and blind squirrels and all.

Can you engage in a civil discussion? Or must you rely on vacuous appeals to MURDER ala the trolls of atheism?

Murder?!?!? I was hungry! "We must eat to survive. Pretty simple".

Nice science atheist.

He says, in a discussion about souls.



Really, you are unaware of the Genesis narrative? The ONLY chapter of the Bible the trolls of atheism are supposedly even familiar with? Why are pants and animals here on the earth? Why to sustain HUMANS!

So, where do you get dominion over to mean 'eat'? Literally, in all that, God told the pair what the food source was. Plant life was given to each to serve as 'meat'. "" And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat." ---- see this part, right here?

But two trolls of atheism take ONE comment from the Pope and ignore everything else in their nihilistic bigot fest.

Heavy is the head and hand that wears the crown. Eagerly are his words listened to.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/13/2014 8:07:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/12/2014 6:49:46 PM, dee-em wrote:
It came from the top:

http://www.smh.com.au...

Pope Francis has given hope to gays, unmarried couples and advocates of the Big Bang theory. Now, he has endeared himself to dog lovers, animal-rights activists and vegans.

Trying to console a distraught little boy whose dog had died, Francis told him in a recent public appearance on St Peter's Square that "paradise is open to all of God's creatures."


Who let the dogs out?

If dogs get in, so do cats. If cats get in, so do guinea pigs. That means all animals have souls. Bye bye eating meat.

"Historically, the Catholic Church has never been clear on this question; it's all over the place, because it begs so many other questions," she said. "Where do mosquitoes go, for God's sake?"

We all exist in the same "breath of life", which is the invisible Heavenly Kingdom that no man can see. All God's people, beasts and everything else are created as invisible vibrations as the mind of God. The breath of life ( information ) gives us life experiences.

Genesis 2
7: then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

Genesis 6
12: And God saw the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way upon the earth.
13: And God said to Noah, "I have determined to make an end of all flesh; for the earth is filled with violence through them; behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
17: For behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall die.

Ecclesiastes 3
17: I said in my heart, God will judge the righteous and the wicked, for he has appointed a time for every matter, and for every work.
18: I said in my heart with regard to the sons of men that God is testing them to show them that they are but beasts.
19: For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts; for all is vanity.
20: All go to one place; all are from the dust, and all turn to dust again.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,575
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12/13/2014 8:11:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 8:07:32 AM, bornofgod wrote:

All God's people, beasts and everything else are created as invisible vibrations as the mind of God.

Sorry dude, that is not in the Bible, you made that up yourself.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/13/2014 8:35:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 8:11:29 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/13/2014 8:07:32 AM, bornofgod wrote:

All God's people, beasts and everything else are created as invisible vibrations as the mind of God.

Sorry dude, that is not in the Bible, you made that up yourself.

The "breath of life" is invisible vibrations ( information ) that have to be processed into illusions ( flesh and other objects we can see ) to give us a visible Earthly kingdom to experience life in.

A New Heaven and Earth will exist for us to experience life after this Heaven and Earth is destroyed soon. Man will get new bodies ( one body will be a male and the other body will be a female ) to experience all the dreams that God has prepared for them.

Christians don't know our invisible Creator and haven't listened to His voice except for chosen believers. Chosen believers come from all kinds of religious backgrounds, ethnic groups, atheism, alcoholics, drug dealers, prostitutes, homeless bumbs, and other people who have been rejected by Christians and the Jews who practice Judaism.

Only us saints possess the knowledge of God during this age and anyone ( chosen believers ) who listen to us will learn who they are in the invisible Word of God, also known as the mind of God.

1 John 4
4: Little children, you are of God, and have overcome them; for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.
5: They are of the world, therefore what they say is of the world, and the world listens to them.
6: We are of God. Whoever knows God listens to us, and he who is not of God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,575
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12/13/2014 8:51:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 8:35:36 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/13/2014 8:11:29 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/13/2014 8:07:32 AM, bornofgod wrote:

All God's people, beasts and everything else are created as invisible vibrations as the mind of God.

Sorry dude, that is not in the Bible, you made that up yourself.

The "breath of life" is invisible vibrations ( information ) that have to be processed into illusions ( flesh and other objects we can see ) to give us a visible Earthly kingdom to experience life in.

You made that up yourself.


Christians don't know our invisible Creator and haven't listened to His voice except for chosen believers. Chosen believers ,,, have been rejected by Christians ...

Only us saints possess the knowledge of God ...

Dude, I can see sparkling, crystal clear that you've been rejected by others, probably because you were trying to convince them you're one of the 'chosen saints'.

What you don't seem to get though, is that you bring the rejection upon yourself by pretending that you're something you're not.

You can drop the thinly veiled charade anytime you want. We're here for you.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
bulproof
Posts: 25,184
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12/13/2014 8:55:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
God created life with absolutely no purpose.
Wanna look at life and refute this?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Otokage
Posts: 2,347
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12/13/2014 8:56:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 1:15:59 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 12/12/2014 11:29:43 PM, dee-em wrote:
* bump *

Maybe they're contemplating the possibility that God is a doG.

lol how did I not notice that wordplay before.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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12/13/2014 11:58:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 4:15:42 AM, neutral wrote:
At 12/12/2014 6:49:46 PM, dee-em wrote:
It came from the top:

http://www.smh.com.au...

Pope Francis has given hope to gays, unmarried couples and advocates of the Big Bang theory. Now, he has endeared himself to dog lovers, animal-rights activists and vegans.

Trying to console a distraught little boy whose dog had died, Francis told him in a recent public appearance on St Peter's Square that "paradise is open to all of God's creatures."


Who let the dogs out?

If dogs get in, so do cats. If cats get in, so do guinea pigs. That means all animals have souls. Bye bye eating meat.

"Historically, the Catholic Church has never been clear on this question; it's all over the place, because it begs so many other questions," she said. "Where do mosquitoes go, for God's sake?"

Try logic. How does animals having souls mean you cannot eat them? If animals have souls then so do plants! Artichokes have hearts too!
And since people have souls, you can eat them too!

And since God has given dominion (i.e. stewardship) of the earth to man ... That would mean we respect animals and treat them humanely through the process of raising them for food rather than abuse them as simple beasts.
Do parents have dominion over their children? Does that mean they should eat them?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire