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Amazing Christopher Hitchens Speech

GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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5/21/2010 7:26:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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5/21/2010 7:41:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/21/2010 7:26:02 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:


I really liked that debate. He outclassed his own brother and left him for dead. :D
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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5/21/2010 8:02:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Great speech. I don't always agree with his propositions but I admire his ability to tell it like it is. That kind of blunt attitude is sometimes the only way to get through to believers.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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5/21/2010 8:03:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/21/2010 8:02:28 PM, Volkov wrote:
Great speech. I don't always agree with his propositions but I admire his ability to tell it like it is. That kind of blunt attitude is sometimes the only way to get through to believers.

This is a surprising response coming from a pro-theist.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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5/21/2010 8:05:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/21/2010 8:03:49 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
This is a surprising response coming from a pro-theist.

I'm not pro-theist, I'm an apa-theist...?

If people want to believe what they believe, they can. I really don't care, not until it crosses into my path.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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5/21/2010 8:07:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/21/2010 8:05:21 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 5/21/2010 8:03:49 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
This is a surprising response coming from a pro-theist.

I'm not pro-theist, I'm an apa-theist...?

If people want to believe what they believe, they can. I really don't care, not until it crosses into my path.

I remember you promoting an atheist author who explained the usefulness of religion. The impression I got from this author was pro-theist.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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5/21/2010 8:11:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/21/2010 8:07:55 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 5/21/2010 8:05:21 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 5/21/2010 8:03:49 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
This is a surprising response coming from a pro-theist.

I'm not pro-theist, I'm an apa-theist...?

If people want to believe what they believe, they can. I really don't care, not until it crosses into my path.

I remember you promoting an atheist author who explained the usefulness of religion. The impression I got from this author was pro-theist.

Robert Wright has actually moved me along in my thoughts about religion.
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
Volkov
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5/21/2010 8:13:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/21/2010 8:07:55 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I remember you promoting an atheist author who explained the usefulness of religion. The impression I got from this author was pro-theist.

He turned out to be materialist, if you're referring to Robert Wright, but he didn't promote theism. Maybe deism, but definitely not theism.

If you're referring to Camille Paglia, then I wouldn't call her "pro-theist" - but both authors have a point in saying that religion has contributed quite a lot to cultural evolution, and has played a very large and important role in societies, and to not appreciate the benefits is to be ignorant of art, anthropology, history, culture and politics.

But, they both criticize the problems, the inherent moral superiority, the willingness to justify murder, the sheltering and promotion of idiocy, etc. But these are things that come from simple human stupidity, rather than being totally blamed on religion, at least in my mind.
Volkov
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5/21/2010 8:16:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/21/2010 8:11:30 PM, Freeman wrote:
Robert Wright has actually moved me along in my thoughts about religion.

I know, right? His insights quite frankly astounded me.
Freeman
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5/21/2010 8:19:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/21/2010 8:07:55 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 5/21/2010 8:05:21 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 5/21/2010 8:03:49 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
This is a surprising response coming from a pro-theist.

I'm not pro-theist, I'm an apa-theist...?

If people want to believe what they believe, they can. I really don't care, not until it crosses into my path.

I remember you promoting an atheist author who explained the usefulness of religion. The impression I got from this author was pro-theist.

Wright talks in a very nebulous way about there being some sort of moral direction to the course of human history, and sometimes he speaks almost like he's a believer, even though he isn't.
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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5/21/2010 8:23:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/21/2010 8:11:30 PM, Freeman wrote:
Robert Wright has actually moved me along in my thoughts about religion.

My World Religions college professor got me to appreciate religion a bit more as well. (My professor also smashed the beliefs of God-believers in class using good arguments against God, but ironically he is a minister involved in interfaith, lol)

My mind goes schizophrenic switching from extreme anti-theistic sentiments to a compassionate attitude towards religion. I suppose it's a bit of both though. I'm glad it's there to provide an intellectual challenge and worthy opposition.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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5/21/2010 8:23:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/21/2010 7:26:02 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:


You can see them go head to head if you want.
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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5/21/2010 8:25:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/21/2010 8:19:54 PM, Freeman wrote:
Wright talks in a very nebulous way about there being some sort of moral direction to the course of human history, and sometimes he speaks almost like he's a believer, even though he isn't.

Haha! I know Robert Wright. I remember him from a huge debate with D'Souza, Boteach, Hitchens, Harris, and Dennet. He was saying some pretty interesting things in the debate. He actually was opposing the theists and the atheists.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
belle
Posts: 4,113
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5/21/2010 8:36:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/21/2010 8:19:54 PM, Freeman wrote:
Wright talks in a very nebulous way about there being some sort of moral direction to the course of human history, and sometimes he speaks almost like he's a believer, even though he isn't.

i do appreciate his conception of "nonzero" interactions contributing to human wellbeing over time, but the "moral direction" argument is frustrating... seems to be making a pattern up instead of picking out an actual, existing, pattern. and yes, i think the concept of the benefit of non-zero interactions can be separated from the moral argument and still stand.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Freeman
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5/21/2010 8:48:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/21/2010 8:25:58 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 5/21/2010 8:19:54 PM, Freeman wrote:
Wright talks in a very nebulous way about there being some sort of moral direction to the course of human history, and sometimes he speaks almost like he's a believer, even though he isn't.

Haha! I know Robert Wright. I remember him from a huge debate with D'Souza, Boteach, Hitchens, Harris, and Dennet. He was saying some pretty interesting things in the debate. He actually was opposing the theists and the atheists.

Yup.. He has taken some pretty hard shots at Harris in particular. Wright rejects his notion about the cause of religious terrorism. However, I still think it's more likely that Harris' views on that topic are more plausible than his.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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5/21/2010 8:51:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/21/2010 8:48:26 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 5/21/2010 8:25:58 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 5/21/2010 8:19:54 PM, Freeman wrote:
Wright talks in a very nebulous way about there being some sort of moral direction to the course of human history, and sometimes he speaks almost like he's a believer, even though he isn't.

Haha! I know Robert Wright. I remember him from a huge debate with D'Souza, Boteach, Hitchens, Harris, and Dennet. He was saying some pretty interesting things in the debate. He actually was opposing the theists and the atheists.

Yup.. He has taken some pretty hard shots at Harris in particular. Wright rejects his notion about the cause of religious terrorism. However, I still think it's more likely that Harris' views on that topic are more plausible than his.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I honestly don't care what any of those atheists say about politics. I think they're all completely off the mark. It seems as if they want to pin cause of terrorism on Muslims for their anti-religious reasons when I think Ron Paul is more correct on the actual reason for terrorism.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,927
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5/21/2010 9:00:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Lol. I swear you can't get through a day without mentioning Dawkins or Hitchens.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Rezzealaux
Posts: 2,251
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5/21/2010 9:28:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Christopher Hitchens is now one of my heroes.
: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...)

Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist.

"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?