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What is this Allah I don't even

Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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5/23/2010 9:31:19 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
http://sweetness-light.com...
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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5/23/2010 9:39:27 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/23/2010 9:34:38 AM, mongeese wrote:
So, there are no praise songs at a mosque?

It just said no drums except at weddings.

and no 'tinkly' drums ever!

and no instruments.

I think they have chanty songs to praise allah...
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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5/23/2010 9:40:38 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/23/2010 9:36:22 AM, innomen wrote:
They're a fun lot aren't they.

They're a lot more permissive in bed, which is weird, you'd think they'd prohibit blowjobs before music.

The site also brings into question WHY DO SO MANY USE THE DRUM WITH THE TINKLE?

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Least I'm betting that tinkles. I mean hell, if it says NO DRUMS WITH TINKLES, and you use drums with tinkles, you might as well go all out and do some Acrassicuada
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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5/23/2010 1:09:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
There are so-called nasheeds, which are Islamic songs. Some are with musical instruments, some are without. Others are with drums only.

We do not use them for any kind of prayer.

There is a difference of opinion among Muslims with regard to musical instruments. Some hold the view that all kinds are permissible, others hold the view that only drums are.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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5/23/2010 6:07:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/23/2010 12:16:13 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Nope. http://www.submission.org...

The reasoning in your link is rather fail. "Sunna and hadiths are ide talk too"-- tu quoque fallacy,assuming they care to point out which contradictions they mean

"FIRST, God teaches us in the Quran that the Prophet Muhammad did not know the future. This will immediately expose the falsehood of this hadith and similar ones and expose the hypocrisy of those who claim to be Muslims but refuse to believe God in the Quran. God told them Muhammad did not know the future."
Prophetic powers are not required to realize that someone's gonna wanna break the rules eventually, and they'd rather change the rules than get in trouble.

"SECOND, For the past 1400 years there have been millions who listened to music and songs without mountains falling on top of them or turning into apes and pigs."
This reasoning destroys Islam as a whole, not just the prohibition on music. For thousands of years people have enjoyed everything from pork to anal sex, none turning into apes and pigs themselves and probably next to none having mountains fall on top of them.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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5/23/2010 8:19:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/23/2010 6:07:56 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 5/23/2010 12:16:13 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Nope. http://www.submission.org...

The reasoning in your link is rather fail. "Sunna and hadiths are ide talk too"-- tu quoque fallacy,assuming they care to point out which contradictions they mean


"FIRST, God teaches us in the Quran that the Prophet Muhammad did not know the future. This will immediately expose the falsehood of this hadith and similar ones and expose the hypocrisy of those who claim to be Muslims but refuse to believe God in the Quran. God told them Muhammad did not know the future."
Prophetic powers are not required to realize that someone's gonna wanna break the rules eventually, and they'd rather change the rules than get in trouble.

"SECOND, For the past 1400 years there have been millions who listened to music and songs without mountains falling on top of them or turning into apes and pigs."
This reasoning destroys Islam as a whole, not just the prohibition on music. For thousands of years people have enjoyed everything from pork to anal sex, none turning into apes and pigs themselves and probably next to none having mountains fall on top of them.

Well regardless there's nothing in the Qur'an saying I can't listen to music. This rule is an innovation and in turn unislamic.
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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5/23/2010 8:20:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/23/2010 8:19:23 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 5/23/2010 6:07:56 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 5/23/2010 12:16:13 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Nope. http://www.submission.org...

The reasoning in your link is rather fail. "Sunna and hadiths are ide talk too"-- tu quoque fallacy,assuming they care to point out which contradictions they mean


"FIRST, God teaches us in the Quran that the Prophet Muhammad did not know the future. This will immediately expose the falsehood of this hadith and similar ones and expose the hypocrisy of those who claim to be Muslims but refuse to believe God in the Quran. God told them Muhammad did not know the future."
Prophetic powers are not required to realize that someone's gonna wanna break the rules eventually, and they'd rather change the rules than get in trouble.

"SECOND, For the past 1400 years there have been millions who listened to music and songs without mountains falling on top of them or turning into apes and pigs."
This reasoning destroys Islam as a whole, not just the prohibition on music. For thousands of years people have enjoyed everything from pork to anal sex, none turning into apes and pigs themselves and probably next to none having mountains fall on top of them.

Well regardless there's nothing in the Qur'an saying I can't listen to music. This rule is an innovation and in turn unislamic.

Why would it matter if the Koran told you that you could never listen to music? Would you follow that instruction?
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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5/23/2010 9:05:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/23/2010 8:19:23 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 5/23/2010 6:07:56 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 5/23/2010 12:16:13 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Nope. http://www.submission.org...

The reasoning in your link is rather fail. "Sunna and hadiths are ide talk too"-- tu quoque fallacy,assuming they care to point out which contradictions they mean


"FIRST, God teaches us in the Quran that the Prophet Muhammad did not know the future. This will immediately expose the falsehood of this hadith and similar ones and expose the hypocrisy of those who claim to be Muslims but refuse to believe God in the Quran. God told them Muhammad did not know the future."
Prophetic powers are not required to realize that someone's gonna wanna break the rules eventually, and they'd rather change the rules than get in trouble.

"SECOND, For the past 1400 years there have been millions who listened to music and songs without mountains falling on top of them or turning into apes and pigs."
This reasoning destroys Islam as a whole, not just the prohibition on music. For thousands of years people have enjoyed everything from pork to anal sex, none turning into apes and pigs themselves and probably next to none having mountains fall on top of them.

Well regardless there's nothing in the Qur'an saying I can't listen to music.
You didn't even read your own link obviously. Music is "idle talk."

Also the general rule "Muhammad said it, Quran says Muhammad's example should be followed, blah blah blah go f*** an 8 year old. :P
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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5/23/2010 9:10:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/23/2010 9:05:48 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:

You didn't even read your own link obviously. Music is "idle talk."

Also the general rule "Muhammad said it, Quran says Muhammad's example should be followed, blah blah blah go f*** an 8 year old. :P

I have read my own link. It's talking about exactly why music isn't forbidden. If the Qur'an doesn't say something then obviously it's not a rule and it says nothing about no music.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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5/23/2010 9:11:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/23/2010 9:10:00 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I have read my own link. It's talking about exactly why music isn't forbidden. If the Qur'an doesn't say something then obviously it's not a rule and it says nothing about no music.

Where does the Qur'an talk about pornography being bad? I mean, if its not a rule...
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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5/23/2010 9:12:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/23/2010 9:10:00 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 5/23/2010 9:05:48 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:

You didn't even read your own link obviously. Music is "idle talk."

Also the general rule "Muhammad said it, Quran says Muhammad's example should be followed, blah blah blah go f*** an 8 year old. :P

I have read my own link. It's talking about exactly why music isn't forbidden. If the Qur'an doesn't say something then obviously it's not a rule and it says nothing about no music.

the quran says straight up "beat" your wife.

Mirza claims some Hadith specifies how. (with a light little tassle thing) [though he never provided a reference]

I guess you would say just follow the quran.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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5/23/2010 9:14:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/23/2010 9:12:17 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 5/23/2010 9:10:00 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 5/23/2010 9:05:48 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:

You didn't even read your own link obviously. Music is "idle talk."

Also the general rule "Muhammad said it, Quran says Muhammad's example should be followed, blah blah blah go f*** an 8 year old. :P

I have read my own link. It's talking about exactly why music isn't forbidden. If the Qur'an doesn't say something then obviously it's not a rule and it says nothing about no music.

the quran says straight up "beat" your wife.

Mirza claims some Hadith specifies how. (with a light little tassle thing) [though he never provided a reference]

I guess you would say just follow the quran.

I don't really trust Hadiths. Many are contradictory. I do really only trust the Qur'an.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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5/23/2010 9:18:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/23/2010 9:10:00 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 5/23/2010 9:05:48 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:

You didn't even read your own link obviously. Music is "idle talk."

Also the general rule "Muhammad said it, Quran says Muhammad's example should be followed, blah blah blah go f*** an 8 year old. :P

I have read my own link. It's talking about exactly why music isn't forbidden.
I rebutted its rebuttals.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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5/23/2010 9:26:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/23/2010 9:14:28 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 5/23/2010 9:12:17 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 5/23/2010 9:10:00 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 5/23/2010 9:05:48 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:

You didn't even read your own link obviously. Music is "idle talk."

Also the general rule "Muhammad said it, Quran says Muhammad's example should be followed, blah blah blah go f*** an 8 year old. :P

I have read my own link. It's talking about exactly why music isn't forbidden. If the Qur'an doesn't say something then obviously it's not a rule and it says nothing about no music.

the quran says straight up "beat" your wife.

Mirza claims some Hadith specifies how. (with a light little tassle thing) [though he never provided a reference]

I guess you would say just follow the quran.

I don't really trust Hadiths. Many are contradictory. I do really only trust the Qur'an.

I think that's a much more straightforward and praiseworthy approach to your religion.
Mirza's position on the issue seems as though he's clarifying THE QURAN (which being a perfect work shouldn't need clarifying beyond what it itself contains)...

However then I guess:
you'd be for husbands straight up beating their wives if they don't feel that they're performing their wifely duties up to par?

right?
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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5/23/2010 9:29:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/23/2010 9:14:28 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 5/23/2010 9:12:17 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 5/23/2010 9:10:00 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 5/23/2010 9:05:48 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:

You didn't even read your own link obviously. Music is "idle talk."

Also the general rule "Muhammad said it, Quran says Muhammad's example should be followed, blah blah blah go f*** an 8 year old. :P

I have read my own link. It's talking about exactly why music isn't forbidden. If the Qur'an doesn't say something then obviously it's not a rule and it says nothing about no music.

the quran says straight up "beat" your wife.

Mirza claims some Hadith specifies how. (with a light little tassle thing) [though he never provided a reference]

I guess you would say just follow the quran.

I don't really trust Hadiths. Many are contradictory. I do really only trust the Qur'an.

The problem is that the quran backs the value of Hadiths no?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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5/23/2010 9:31:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/23/2010 9:29:37 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 5/23/2010 9:14:28 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 5/23/2010 9:12:17 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 5/23/2010 9:10:00 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 5/23/2010 9:05:48 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:

You didn't even read your own link obviously. Music is "idle talk."

Also the general rule "Muhammad said it, Quran says Muhammad's example should be followed, blah blah blah go f*** an 8 year old. :P

I have read my own link. It's talking about exactly why music isn't forbidden. If the Qur'an doesn't say something then obviously it's not a rule and it says nothing about no music.

the quran says straight up "beat" your wife.

Mirza claims some Hadith specifies how. (with a light little tassle thing) [though he never provided a reference]

I guess you would say just follow the quran.

I don't really trust Hadiths. Many are contradictory. I do really only trust the Qur'an.

The problem is that the quran backs the value of Hadiths no?

No, not really. Many are contradictory so I generally don't trust them. for one, they can't even seem to get the age of one person straight(Aisha).
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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5/23/2010 9:37:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/23/2010 9:31:53 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 5/23/2010 9:29:37 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 5/23/2010 9:14:28 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 5/23/2010 9:12:17 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 5/23/2010 9:10:00 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 5/23/2010 9:05:48 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:

You didn't even read your own link obviously. Music is "idle talk."

Also the general rule "Muhammad said it, Quran says Muhammad's example should be followed, blah blah blah go f*** an 8 year old. :P

I have read my own link. It's talking about exactly why music isn't forbidden. If the Qur'an doesn't say something then obviously it's not a rule and it says nothing about no music.

the quran says straight up "beat" your wife.

Mirza claims some Hadith specifies how. (with a light little tassle thing) [though he never provided a reference]

I guess you would say just follow the quran.

I don't really trust Hadiths. Many are contradictory. I do really only trust the Qur'an.

The problem is that the quran backs the value of Hadiths no?

No, not really. Many are contradictory so I generally don't trust them. for one, they can't even seem to get the age of one person straight(Aisha).

By the Star when it goes down― (1) Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled, (2) Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire. (3) It is no less than inspiration sent down to him: (4) He was taught by one mighty in Power, (5)
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
feverish
Posts: 2,716
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5/24/2010 3:00:00 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I think a lot of muslims consider most music to be an unproductive waste of time but I've never heard of ALL music being haram.

The call to prayer itself is kind of a song.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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5/24/2010 8:58:49 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/23/2010 6:07:56 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
This reasoning destroys Islam as a whole, not just the prohibition on music. For thousands of years people have enjoyed everything from pork to anal sex, none turning into apes and pigs themselves and probably next to none having mountains fall on top of them.
Before coming with such a rubbish claim, double-check first.

http://www.islamunity.org...

You can see hadith speaking about times in future, not all times, especially not the latest 14 centuries.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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5/24/2010 9:04:24 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
The Qur'an and authentic hadith must be followed. It is generally very clear which hadith are authentic.

At 5/23/2010 9:11:38 PM, Volkov wrote:
Where does the Qur'an talk about pornography being bad? I mean, if its not a rule...
The Qur'an speaks about lowering the gaze from looking at such shameful things. Sexual acts are between two people, and when they act upon them and show it to others, it is a sin, and Muslims should look away from sin. They should condemn it by action. If not possible, by words. If not possible, by the heart.

Qur'an, chapter 6, verse 151 speaks about shameful deeds.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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5/24/2010 9:11:08 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/23/2010 9:26:38 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
Mirza's position on the issue seems as though he's clarifying THE QURAN (which being a perfect work shouldn't need clarifying beyond what it itself contains)...
Yes, but humans misunderstand things, and hadith are there to comment on certain things.
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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5/24/2010 9:11:24 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Muslims, like Jews, sing the qu'ran. Go to a prayer with a muslim friend. The music you hear as they bow aren't hymns it's the qur'an.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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5/24/2010 9:11:52 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/24/2010 9:04:24 AM, Mirza wrote:
The Qur'an speaks about lowering the gaze from looking at such shameful things. Sexual acts are between two people, and when they act upon them and show it to others, it is a sin, and Muslims should look away from sin. They should condemn it by action. If not possible, by words. If not possible, by the heart.

Qur'an, chapter 6, verse 151 speaks about shameful deeds.

In other words, sex is a sin.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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5/24/2010 9:12:04 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/24/2010 3:00:00 AM, feverish wrote:
The call to prayer itself is kind of a song.
No, it is just recited in a slow rhythm. The entire Qur'an is recited the same way.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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5/24/2010 9:12:42 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/24/2010 9:11:24 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
Muslims, like Jews, sing the qu'ran. Go to a prayer with a muslim friend. The music you hear as they bow aren't hymns it's the qur'an.
It is not singing, neither is it music.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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5/24/2010 9:13:25 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/24/2010 9:11:52 AM, Volkov wrote:
In other words, sex is a sin.
How did my post imply that? Sexual acts between two married people is not sinful. Sodomy is.