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Does Mother Nature exist?

bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/17/2014 5:00:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/17/2014 4:43:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Well, does she?

God and His thoughts are all that exists. We are characters in His invisible creation and when played out, we see our flesh which is formed from processed information. Mother nature is just a symbolic phrase that some people use to deny that there is a Creator.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/17/2014 5:33:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/17/2014 5:00:20 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2014 4:43:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Well, does she?

God and His thoughts are all that exists. We are characters in His invisible creation and when played out, we see our flesh which is formed from processed information. Mother nature is just a symbolic phrase that some people use to deny that there is a Creator.

I know you don't believe anything exists in reality Brad. You think everything is an illusion except God. Yet you are controlled by your own illusion and perception of God.
You fool yourself with your own invisible vibrating mind.

God is just as symbolic of reality as Mother Nature is. To deny that is to live in your own created fantasy.

Supernatural characters including God are all man made constructs. They all symbolize the powers of the universe.

Any creator is nothing but energy. It makes no difference what label you place on it. Mother Nature, God, Father Time all represent the same energy.

Energy has no thoughts of its own. Any thoughts that exist, exist only in the minds of the living things which are capable of any thought at all.

Thought waves are transmitted through the air like sound and picture waves. They come from humans to humans.They do not come from any supernatural entity at all.

Put together all the thoughts in existence and you can call those the thoughts of God if you wish but ultimately you are referring to the combination of all thoughts in existence not to any individual thoughts of some individual supernatural entity.

Every person is controlled by their own mind and own thoughts unless they decide to submit to other peoples thoughts and demands and obey them.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/17/2014 6:45:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/17/2014 5:33:28 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/17/2014 5:00:20 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2014 4:43:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Well, does she?

God and His thoughts are all that exists. We are characters in His invisible creation and when played out, we see our flesh which is formed from processed information. Mother nature is just a symbolic phrase that some people use to deny that there is a Creator.

I know you don't believe anything exists in reality Brad. You think everything is an illusion except God. Yet you are controlled by your own illusion and perception of God.
You fool yourself with your own invisible vibrating mind.

God is just as symbolic of reality as Mother Nature is. To deny that is to live in your own created fantasy.

Supernatural characters including God are all man made constructs. They all symbolize the powers of the universe.

Any creator is nothing but energy. It makes no difference what label you place on it. Mother Nature, God, Father Time all represent the same energy.

Energy has no thoughts of its own. Any thoughts that exist, exist only in the minds of the living things which are capable of any thought at all.

Thought waves are transmitted through the air like sound and picture waves. They come from humans to humans.They do not come from any supernatural entity at all.

Put together all the thoughts in existence and you can call those the thoughts of God if you wish but ultimately you are referring to the combination of all thoughts in existence not to any individual thoughts of some individual supernatural entity.

Every person is controlled by their own mind and own thoughts unless they decide to submit to other peoples thoughts and demands and obey them.

Anyone who denies the knowledge of God ( Christ ) is an antichrist. You are an antichrist.
Otokage
Posts: 2,347
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12/17/2014 7:34:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/17/2014 4:43:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Well, does she?

Define mother nature. Because nature definitely exists, and "she" is pretty much life itself, so our mother in the most metaphorical way.
Gentorev
Posts: 2,925
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12/17/2014 7:34:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/17/2014 6:45:53 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2014 5:33:28 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/17/2014 5:00:20 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2014 4:43:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Well, does she?

God and His thoughts are all that exists. We are characters in His invisible creation and when played out, we see our flesh which is formed from processed information. Mother nature is just a symbolic phrase that some people use to deny that there is a Creator.

I know you don't believe anything exists in reality Brad. You think everything is an illusion except God. Yet you are controlled by your own illusion and perception of God.
You fool yourself with your own invisible vibrating mind.

God is just as symbolic of reality as Mother Nature is. To deny that is to live in your own created fantasy.

Supernatural characters including God are all man made constructs. They all symbolize the powers of the universe.

Any creator is nothing but energy. It makes no difference what label you place on it. Mother Nature, God, Father Time all represent the same energy.

Energy has no thoughts of its own. Any thoughts that exist, exist only in the minds of the living things which are capable of any thought at all.

Thought waves are transmitted through the air like sound and picture waves. They come from humans to humans.They do not come from any supernatural entity at all.

Put together all the thoughts in existence and you can call those the thoughts of God if you wish but ultimately you are referring to the combination of all thoughts in existence not to any individual thoughts of some individual supernatural entity.

Every person is controlled by their own mind and own thoughts unless they decide to submit to other peoples thoughts and demands and obey them.

Anyone who denies the knowledge of God ( Christ ) is an antichrist. You are an antichrist.

No mate. Anyone who refuses to acknowledge that, Jesus came as a human being, who was born of two human parents and was of the seed of Adam, is an anti-christ, an enemy of the truth.
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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12/17/2014 8:35:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/17/2014 4:43:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Well, does she?

No. I suppose you could metaphorically argue that nature is a mother. However the word exist doesn't work. It sounds like someone is saying that nature has a conscience. I don't think it does.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
Thanksfornotraping
Posts: 238
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12/17/2014 8:39:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/17/2014 5:00:20 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2014 4:43:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Well, does she?

God and His thoughts are all that exists. We are characters in His invisible creation and when played out, we see our flesh which is formed from processed information. Mother nature is just a symbolic phrase that some people use to deny that there is a Creator.

First sentence correct- reconcile everything else...
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/17/2014 9:35:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/17/2014 7:34:49 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 12/17/2014 6:45:53 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2014 5:33:28 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/17/2014 5:00:20 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2014 4:43:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Well, does she?

God and His thoughts are all that exists. We are characters in His invisible creation and when played out, we see our flesh which is formed from processed information. Mother nature is just a symbolic phrase that some people use to deny that there is a Creator.

I know you don't believe anything exists in reality Brad. You think everything is an illusion except God. Yet you are controlled by your own illusion and perception of God.
You fool yourself with your own invisible vibrating mind.

God is just as symbolic of reality as Mother Nature is. To deny that is to live in your own created fantasy.

Supernatural characters including God are all man made constructs. They all symbolize the powers of the universe.

Any creator is nothing but energy. It makes no difference what label you place on it. Mother Nature, God, Father Time all represent the same energy.

Energy has no thoughts of its own. Any thoughts that exist, exist only in the minds of the living things which are capable of any thought at all.

Thought waves are transmitted through the air like sound and picture waves. They come from humans to humans.They do not come from any supernatural entity at all.

Put together all the thoughts in existence and you can call those the thoughts of God if you wish but ultimately you are referring to the combination of all thoughts in existence not to any individual thoughts of some individual supernatural entity.

Every person is controlled by their own mind and own thoughts unless they decide to submit to other peoples thoughts and demands and obey them.

Anyone who denies the knowledge of God ( Christ ) is an antichrist. You are an antichrist.

No mate. Anyone who refuses to acknowledge that, Jesus came as a human being, who was born of two human parents and was of the seed of Adam, is an anti-christ, an enemy of the truth.

That's what the antichrists who published the new testament wanted their Christians to believe. Jesus was the first saint among all God's saints. I am the last one He's using to testify to His knowledge ( Christ ).
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/17/2014 9:36:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/17/2014 8:39:21 PM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 12/17/2014 5:00:20 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2014 4:43:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Well, does she?

God and His thoughts are all that exists. We are characters in His invisible creation and when played out, we see our flesh which is formed from processed information. Mother nature is just a symbolic phrase that some people use to deny that there is a Creator.

First sentence correct- reconcile everything else...

You don't have any knowledge of God to refute what God speaks through me.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/17/2014 10:26:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/17/2014 6:45:53 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2014 5:33:28 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/17/2014 5:00:20 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2014 4:43:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Well, does she?

God and His thoughts are all that exists. We are characters in His invisible creation and when played out, we see our flesh which is formed from processed information. Mother nature is just a symbolic phrase that some people use to deny that there is a Creator.

I know you don't believe anything exists in reality Brad. You think everything is an illusion except God. Yet you are controlled by your own illusion and perception of God.
You fool yourself with your own invisible vibrating mind.

God is just as symbolic of reality as Mother Nature is. To deny that is to live in your own created fantasy.

Supernatural characters including God are all man made constructs. They all symbolize the powers of the universe.

Any creator is nothing but energy. It makes no difference what label you place on it. Mother Nature, God, Father Time all represent the same energy.

Energy has no thoughts of its own. Any thoughts that exist, exist only in the minds of the living things which are capable of any thought at all.

Thought waves are transmitted through the air like sound and picture waves. They come from humans to humans.They do not come from any supernatural entity at all.

Put together all the thoughts in existence and you can call those the thoughts of God if you wish but ultimately you are referring to the combination of all thoughts in existence not to any individual thoughts of some individual supernatural entity.

Every person is controlled by their own mind and own thoughts unless they decide to submit to other peoples thoughts and demands and obey them.

Anyone who denies the knowledge of God ( Christ ) is an antichrist. You are an antichrist.

But I do not deny the knowledge of God so how can I be an antichrist?
I have plenty of knowledge of God just as I have plenty of knowledge of Mother Nature.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/17/2014 10:29:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/17/2014 7:34:20 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 12/17/2014 4:43:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Well, does she?

Define mother nature. Because nature definitely exists, and "she" is pretty much life itself, so our mother in the most metaphorical way.

You defined her yourself. I agree with your definition.
God is also life itself and our Father in the most metaphorical way.
God is as much a personification of life as is Mother Nature.

Neither are supernatural characters. Both are personifications of life and represent life in reality.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/17/2014 10:35:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/17/2014 8:35:02 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 12/17/2014 4:43:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Well, does she?

No. I suppose you could metaphorically argue that nature is a mother. However the word exist doesn't work. It sounds like someone is saying that nature has a conscience. I don't think it does.

The word exist works for all objects, plants and animals which have no conscience.
I think humans are the only species alive which has a conscience.
I am not aware of any others with a conscience. Are you?

Of course Mother Nature has no conscience and neither does Father God. Both are personifications of Life.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/17/2014 10:44:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/17/2014 9:35:27 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2014 7:34:49 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 12/17/2014 6:45:53 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2014 5:33:28 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/17/2014 5:00:20 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2014 4:43:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Well, does she?

God and His thoughts are all that exists. We are characters in His invisible creation and when played out, we see our flesh which is formed from processed information. Mother nature is just a symbolic phrase that some people use to deny that there is a Creator.

I know you don't believe anything exists in reality Brad. You think everything is an illusion except God. Yet you are controlled by your own illusion and perception of God.
You fool yourself with your own invisible vibrating mind.

God is just as symbolic of reality as Mother Nature is. To deny that is to live in your own created fantasy.

Supernatural characters including God are all man made constructs. They all symbolize the powers of the universe.

Any creator is nothing but energy. It makes no difference what label you place on it. Mother Nature, God, Father Time all represent the same energy.

Energy has no thoughts of its own. Any thoughts that exist, exist only in the minds of the living things which are capable of any thought at all.

Thought waves are transmitted through the air like sound and picture waves. They come from humans to humans.They do not come from any supernatural entity at all.

Put together all the thoughts in existence and you can call those the thoughts of God if you wish but ultimately you are referring to the combination of all thoughts in existence not to any individual thoughts of some individual supernatural entity.

Every person is controlled by their own mind and own thoughts unless they decide to submit to other peoples thoughts and demands and obey them.

Anyone who denies the knowledge of God ( Christ ) is an antichrist. You are an antichrist.

No mate. Anyone who refuses to acknowledge that, Jesus came as a human being, who was born of two human parents and was of the seed of Adam, is an anti-christ, an enemy of the truth.

That's what the antichrists who published the new testament wanted their Christians to believe. Jesus was the first saint among all God's saints. I am the last one He's using to testify to His knowledge ( Christ ).

You testify of things in your own imaginations Brad. You are not a last saint of any kind and Jesus was not a first saint either. Saints are mentioned in the bible stories well before Jesus was born. (Deut 33:2)

Your own belief means God will have no one to testify to the knowledge of God after 25th January 2015. All people for the rest of Eternity will never know the truth because Brad will not be here to tell them. What a shame. God will no longer speak to anyone on the planet after Brad dies.

Wake up to your own stupidity Brad.
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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12/17/2014 10:55:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/17/2014 10:35:35 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/17/2014 8:35:02 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 12/17/2014 4:43:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Well, does she?

No. I suppose you could metaphorically argue that nature is a mother. However the word exist doesn't work. It sounds like someone is saying that nature has a conscience. I don't think it does.


The word exist works for all objects, plants and animals which have no conscience.
I think humans are the only species alive which has a conscience.
I am not aware of any others with a conscience. Are you?

Of course Mother Nature has no conscience and neither does Father God. Both are personifications of Life.

When you give it a name like mother nature in this context it sounds like you're hinting at a conscience, I'm not saying you believe that.

You must not spend a lot of time around animals. Some of them most definitely act as though they feel shame and guilt. Two very important things that come along with a conscience.

God and mother nature are human constructs and a way to feel more secure in an ever changing environment. God might exist, mother nature might exist, but our perceptions of them might be way off base.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,124
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12/17/2014 10:55:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/17/2014 4:43:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Well, does she?

Nature? - yes. Mother nature? - nope.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/17/2014 11:30:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/17/2014 10:55:19 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 12/17/2014 10:35:35 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/17/2014 8:35:02 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 12/17/2014 4:43:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Well, does she?

No. I suppose you could metaphorically argue that nature is a mother. However the word exist doesn't work. It sounds like someone is saying that nature has a conscience. I don't think it does.


The word exist works for all objects, plants and animals which have no conscience.
I think humans are the only species alive which has a conscience.
I am not aware of any others with a conscience. Are you?

Of course Mother Nature has no conscience and neither does Father God. Both are personifications of Life.

When you give it a name like mother nature in this context it sounds like you're hinting at a conscience, I'm not saying you believe that.

You must not spend a lot of time around animals. Some of them most definitely act as though they feel shame and guilt. Two very important things that come along with a conscience.

I spend plenty of time around animals and observe their behavior. What I see is "alpha" animals causing those under them in rank to submit to them. I don't see conscience at work. I see submission and authority at work. Animals have no laws about what is right or wrong. They just act according to their instincts and the adults teach the younger how to act and how to survive. When it comes to animals who are trained by humans, they act according to their training. Any dog for example who runs away from someone or something with his tail between its legs is showing submission and fear not conscience of any kind.
Their is a vast difference with being self controlled by your own conscience and acting in fear and submission to someone more powerful than you are.

God and mother nature are human constructs and a way to feel more secure in an ever changing environment. God might exist, mother nature might exist, but our perceptions of them might be way off base.

The invisible supernatural characters do not exist. The things they represent obviously do exist.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/17/2014 11:36:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/17/2014 10:55:48 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 12/17/2014 4:43:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Well, does she?

Nature? - yes. Mother nature? - nope.

Yet you have enough understanding to know that when people refer to Mother Nature they are referring to Nature itself.
Why does that understanding not also apply to the title of God? Why do people, unbelievers and also believers in God, find it so hard to understand that God is simply a personification of life the same as Mother nature is?

If everyone understood that, all the silly childish arguments would be over and people could just talk about God knowing the term refer to life in general the same as they can talk about Mother Nature knowing it just refers to nature in general.

However, I understand childish intellects can take a long time to mature. Therefore, Please carry on. I don't expect any ones thought processes to change overnight.
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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12/17/2014 11:42:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/17/2014 11:30:07 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/17/2014 10:55:19 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 12/17/2014 10:35:35 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/17/2014 8:35:02 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 12/17/2014 4:43:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Well, does she?

No. I suppose you could metaphorically argue that nature is a mother. However the word exist doesn't work. It sounds like someone is saying that nature has a conscience. I don't think it does.


The word exist works for all objects, plants and animals which have no conscience.
I think humans are the only species alive which has a conscience.
I am not aware of any others with a conscience. Are you?

Of course Mother Nature has no conscience and neither does Father God. Both are personifications of Life.

When you give it a name like mother nature in this context it sounds like you're hinting at a conscience, I'm not saying you believe that.

You must not spend a lot of time around animals. Some of them most definitely act as though they feel shame and guilt. Two very important things that come along with a conscience.

I spend plenty of time around animals and observe their behavior. What I see is "alpha" animals causing those under them in rank to submit to them. I don't see conscience at work. I see submission and authority at work. Animals have no laws about what is right or wrong. They just act according to their instincts and the adults teach the younger how to act and how to survive. When it comes to animals who are trained by humans, they act according to their training. Any dog for example who runs away from someone or something with his tail between its legs is showing submission and fear not conscience of any kind.
Their is a vast difference with being self controlled by your own conscience and acting in fear and submission to someone more powerful than you are.

Alright, look at it like this. This is a hypothetical argument. Said aliens discover Earth and find that there are all kinds of life forms inhabiting it. The most interesting would obviously be humans. Lets just say they're filming a documentary of human behaviors. They see us having sex, eating, killing, helping each other... you get the idea. They have no way of communicating with us. They beam people onto their space craft and perform experiments, tag them, record dream patterns, and come to the conclusion that we have no conscience because all of our emotions are reactionary. And to their standard of what conscience is we are no different than monkeys or dogs. The end.

When we can get into the mind of a dog, pig, or dolphin, and feel it's emotions with empathy, and read it's thoughts and intentions, then we can determine that they have no conscience. Maybe it's just not to our standards.

God and mother nature are human constructs and a way to feel more secure in an ever changing environment. God might exist, mother nature might exist, but our perceptions of them might be way off base.

The invisible supernatural characters do not exist. The things they represent obviously do exist.

Obviously.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,124
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12/18/2014 12:03:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/17/2014 11:36:53 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/17/2014 10:55:48 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 12/17/2014 4:43:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Well, does she?

Nature? - yes. Mother nature? - nope.

Yet you have enough understanding to know that when people refer to Mother Nature they are referring to Nature itself.

Sure, mother nature is fairly well defined as nature. No one sane believes she actually exists.

Why does that understanding not also apply to the title of God? Why do people, unbelievers and also believers in God, find it so hard to understand that God is simply a personification of life the same as Mother nature is?

Are you still talking about the god of the Bible, or have you made up a new god? The Bible defines god as more than a personification giving him very specific traits and attributes. If you choose to ignore all of that and make god into a vague abstract conceptualization - hey, more power to you, sister, but it is not a path I can follow. I choose to read the words as they were most probably intended by ancient peoples - literally.

If everyone understood that, all the silly childish arguments would be over and people could just talk about God knowing the term refer to life in general the same as they can talk about Mother Nature knowing it just refers to nature in general.

..and yet, you are doing the same actions you condemn - scoffing at those who do not agree with your personal definition of god.

However, I understand childish intellects can take a long time to mature. Therefore, Please carry on. I don't expect any ones thought processes to change overnight.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/18/2014 12:32:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/17/2014 11:42:40 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 12/17/2014 11:30:07 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/17/2014 10:55:19 PM, jodybirdy wrote:

When you give it a name like mother nature in this context it sounds like you're hinting at a conscience, I'm not saying you believe that.

You must not spend a lot of time around animals. Some of them most definitely act as though they feel shame and guilt. Two very important things that come along with a conscience.

I spend plenty of time around animals and observe their behavior. What I see is "alpha" animals causing those under them in rank to submit to them. I don't see conscience at work. I see submission and authority at work. Animals have no laws about what is right or wrong. They just act according to their instincts and the adults teach the younger how to act and how to survive. When it comes to animals who are trained by humans, they act according to their training. Any dog for example who runs away from someone or something with his tail between its legs is showing submission and fear not conscience of any kind.
Their is a vast difference with being self controlled by your own conscience and acting in fear and submission to someone more powerful than you are.

Alright, look at it like this. This is a hypothetical argument. Said aliens discover Earth and find that there are all kinds of life forms inhabiting it. The most interesting would obviously be humans. Lets just say they're filming a documentary of human behaviors. They see us having sex, eating, killing, helping each other... you get the idea. They have no way of communicating with us. They beam people onto their space craft and perform experiments, tag them, record dream patterns, and come to the conclusion that we have no conscience because all of our emotions are reactionary. And to their standard of what conscience is we are no different than monkeys or dogs. The end.

Well you could look at it like that.
However, how do you explain the laws you find amongst humans? They are written down for all to read and the consequences of disobedience are also written down for all to read. What other animals write their laws down for all to study so you can determine what they believe is right and wrong for them to do? By studying animal behavior we learn that there are leaders and followers and the leaders make the others submit to them or kill them.
They fight to determine who becomes the ultimate leader.
Humans do the same in many ways but at least they make their own laws and the leaders ought to abide by the same laws as everyone else. However in reality they often do not and that is why evil prevails in the world. Many leaders are corrupt. They are in leadership for the money and nothing else.

When we can get into the mind of a dog, pig, or dolphin, and feel it's emotions with empathy, and read it's thoughts and intentions, then we can determine that they have no conscience. Maybe it's just not to our standards.

If you believed animals had a conscience would you kill animals and eat them just because you were hungry or would you become vegetarian?

If a dog attacks a person, does it have a guilty conscience for hurting the person afterwards or it is just reacting out of fear and trying to defend itself from some perceived threat or maybe it was trained to attack? Either way I doubt it would feel any guilt about hurting a human.
Some people on the other hand would feel guilty for just stepping on a dogs tail by accident and hurting it. They get down and pet it and apologize and try to make some kind of restitution because they feel bad and they need to do something to make themselves feel better. I don't see any animals trying to make any kind of restitution for any of their actions.
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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12/18/2014 12:42:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 12:32:49 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/17/2014 11:42:40 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 12/17/2014 11:30:07 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/17/2014 10:55:19 PM, jodybirdy wrote:

When you give it a name like mother nature in this context it sounds like you're hinting at a conscience, I'm not saying you believe that.

You must not spend a lot of time around animals. Some of them most definitely act as though they feel shame and guilt. Two very important things that come along with a conscience.

I spend plenty of time around animals and observe their behavior. What I see is "alpha" animals causing those under them in rank to submit to them. I don't see conscience at work. I see submission and authority at work. Animals have no laws about what is right or wrong. They just act according to their instincts and the adults teach the younger how to act and how to survive. When it comes to animals who are trained by humans, they act according to their training. Any dog for example who runs away from someone or something with his tail between its legs is showing submission and fear not conscience of any kind.
Their is a vast difference with being self controlled by your own conscience and acting in fear and submission to someone more powerful than you are.

Alright, look at it like this. This is a hypothetical argument. Said aliens discover Earth and find that there are all kinds of life forms inhabiting it. The most interesting would obviously be humans. Lets just say they're filming a documentary of human behaviors. They see us having sex, eating, killing, helping each other... you get the idea. They have no way of communicating with us. They beam people onto their space craft and perform experiments, tag them, record dream patterns, and come to the conclusion that we have no conscience because all of our emotions are reactionary. And to their standard of what conscience is we are no different than monkeys or dogs. The end.

Well you could look at it like that.
However, how do you explain the laws you find amongst humans? They are written down for all to read and the consequences of disobedience are also written down for all to read. What other animals write their laws down for all to study so you can determine what they believe is right and wrong for them to do? By studying animal behavior we learn that there are leaders and followers and the leaders make the others submit to them or kill them.
They fight to determine who becomes the ultimate leader.
Humans do the same in many ways but at least they make their own laws and the leaders ought to abide by the same laws as everyone else. However in reality they often do not and that is why evil prevails in the world. Many leaders are corrupt. They are in leadership for the money and nothing else.

Humans have huge brains and primitive emotions. Enough said.

When we can get into the mind of a dog, pig, or dolphin, and feel it's emotions with empathy, and read it's thoughts and intentions, then we can determine that they have no conscience. Maybe it's just not to our standards.

If you believed animals had a conscience would you kill animals and eat them just because you were hungry or would you become vegetarian?

I AM a vegetarian. and to be honest if it weren't for the cream in my coffee I'd qualify as vegan. I believe vertebrates are sentient. I believe many mammals have developed somewhat of a conscience on top of being sentient. I don't eat them.

If a dog attacks a person, does it have a guilty conscience for hurting the person afterwards or it is just reacting out of fear and trying to defend itself from some perceived threat or maybe it was trained to attack? Either way I doubt it would feel any guilt about hurting a human.

Acting out of fear is also a human trait. And human feelings of guilt are a reaction to the fear of rejection for our actions. What's the difference?

Some people on the other hand would feel guilty for just stepping on a dogs tail by accident and hurting it. They get down and pet it and apologize and try to make some kind of restitution because they feel bad and they need to do something to make themselves feel better. I don't see any animals trying to make any kind of restitution for any of their actions.

Empathy and guilt are not the same thing.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/18/2014 12:45:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/17/2014 10:26:58 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/17/2014 6:45:53 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2014 5:33:28 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/17/2014 5:00:20 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2014 4:43:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Well, does she?

God and His thoughts are all that exists. We are characters in His invisible creation and when played out, we see our flesh which is formed from processed information. Mother nature is just a symbolic phrase that some people use to deny that there is a Creator.

I know you don't believe anything exists in reality Brad. You think everything is an illusion except God. Yet you are controlled by your own illusion and perception of God.
You fool yourself with your own invisible vibrating mind.

God is just as symbolic of reality as Mother Nature is. To deny that is to live in your own created fantasy.

Supernatural characters including God are all man made constructs. They all symbolize the powers of the universe.

Any creator is nothing but energy. It makes no difference what label you place on it. Mother Nature, God, Father Time all represent the same energy.

Energy has no thoughts of its own. Any thoughts that exist, exist only in the minds of the living things which are capable of any thought at all.

Thought waves are transmitted through the air like sound and picture waves. They come from humans to humans.They do not come from any supernatural entity at all.

Put together all the thoughts in existence and you can call those the thoughts of God if you wish but ultimately you are referring to the combination of all thoughts in existence not to any individual thoughts of some individual supernatural entity.

Every person is controlled by their own mind and own thoughts unless they decide to submit to other peoples thoughts and demands and obey them.

Anyone who denies the knowledge of God ( Christ ) is an antichrist. You are an antichrist.

But I do not deny the knowledge of God so how can I be an antichrist?
I have plenty of knowledge of God just as I have plenty of knowledge of Mother Nature.

You don't have any knowledge of God. You only think you do from your own interpretations of what you read. God teaches us saints who we are in Him and once we learn that we're His voice, we get very confident in what we testify to.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/18/2014 12:55:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 12:03:25 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 12/17/2014 11:36:53 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/17/2014 10:55:48 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 12/17/2014 4:43:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Well, does she?

Nature? - yes. Mother nature? - nope.

Yet you have enough understanding to know that when people refer to Mother Nature they are referring to Nature itself.

Sure, mother nature is fairly well defined as nature. No one sane believes she actually exists.

Agreed

Why does that understanding not also apply to the title of God? Why do people, unbelievers and also believers in God, find it so hard to understand that God is simply a personification of life the same as Mother nature is?

Are you still talking about the god of the Bible, or have you made up a new god? The Bible defines god as more than a personification giving him very specific traits and attributes. If you choose to ignore all of that and make god into a vague abstract conceptualization - hey, more power to you, sister, but it is not a path I can follow. I choose to read the words as they were most probably intended by ancient peoples - literally.

What makes you think the writers intended their words to be read literally?
Writers are very creative people and if the words in the bible were meant to be read literally why does it include poetry and so many allegories, idioms and symbolism? It is obviously not written like a history book. Therefore it is foolish to read it like one.
The bible defines God in many different ways and implies God is everything. Therefore to make him only one invisible thing like a supernatural character in the sky is also very foolish. The bible says God is Love. Does Love exist? The bible says God is Light. Does Light exist? The bible says God is a consuming fire. Does fire exist? The bible says God is a rock. Do rocks exist? The bible says God is a sun and a shield. Does the sun exist? Do shields exists?
When you understand all these things describe God and all these things exist then any intelligent person would understand God is a combination of everything in existence.

If everyone understood that, all the silly childish arguments would be over and people could just talk about God knowing the term refer to life in general the same as they can talk about Mother Nature knowing it just refers to nature in general.

..and yet, you are doing the same actions you condemn - scoffing at those who do not agree with your personal definition of god.

Well we all do the same as each other because we all know we are right and everyone else is wrong. Everyone should however ignore me because I am not worth listening to any more than they are.
I am just a fool sharing my own foolishness like any other fool around here. We all say to each other "Listen to my foolishness because yours is just ridiculous. At least mine makes sense."

However, I understand childish intellects can take a long time to mature. Therefore, Please carry on. I don't expect any ones thought processes to change overnight.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/18/2014 12:57:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/17/2014 10:44:43 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/17/2014 9:35:27 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2014 7:34:49 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 12/17/2014 6:45:53 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2014 5:33:28 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/17/2014 5:00:20 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2014 4:43:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Well, does she?

God and His thoughts are all that exists. We are characters in His invisible creation and when played out, we see our flesh which is formed from processed information. Mother nature is just a symbolic phrase that some people use to deny that there is a Creator.

I know you don't believe anything exists in reality Brad. You think everything is an illusion except God. Yet you are controlled by your own illusion and perception of God.
You fool yourself with your own invisible vibrating mind.

God is just as symbolic of reality as Mother Nature is. To deny that is to live in your own created fantasy.

Supernatural characters including God are all man made constructs. They all symbolize the powers of the universe.

Any creator is nothing but energy. It makes no difference what label you place on it. Mother Nature, God, Father Time all represent the same energy.

Energy has no thoughts of its own. Any thoughts that exist, exist only in the minds of the living things which are capable of any thought at all.

Thought waves are transmitted through the air like sound and picture waves. They come from humans to humans.They do not come from any supernatural entity at all.

Put together all the thoughts in existence and you can call those the thoughts of God if you wish but ultimately you are referring to the combination of all thoughts in existence not to any individual thoughts of some individual supernatural entity.

Every person is controlled by their own mind and own thoughts unless they decide to submit to other peoples thoughts and demands and obey them.

Anyone who denies the knowledge of God ( Christ ) is an antichrist. You are an antichrist.

No mate. Anyone who refuses to acknowledge that, Jesus came as a human being, who was born of two human parents and was of the seed of Adam, is an anti-christ, an enemy of the truth.

That's what the antichrists who published the new testament wanted their Christians to believe. Jesus was the first saint among all God's saints. I am the last one He's using to testify to His knowledge ( Christ ).

You testify of things in your own imaginations Brad. You are not a last saint of any kind and Jesus was not a first saint either. Saints are mentioned in the bible stories well before Jesus was born. (Deut 33:2)

Your own belief means God will have no one to testify to the knowledge of God after 25th January 2015. All people for the rest of Eternity will never know the truth because Brad will not be here to tell them. What a shame. God will no longer speak to anyone on the planet after Brad dies.

Wake up to your own stupidity Brad.

The 1,000 year reign of Christ will end with the death of my body. I've been writing and speaking for our Creator since June 16th, 2008 and from those testimonies, I have learned that I was created as His voice. By possessing the knowledge of God, I know exactly who was chosen as His believers and who were made antichrists that reject the spoken Word that I preach to them. You're one of those antichrists who reject His Word.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/18/2014 12:59:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 12:45:30 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2014 10:26:58 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/17/2014 6:45:53 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2014 5:33:28 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/17/2014 5:00:20 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2014 4:43:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Well, does she?

God and His thoughts are all that exists. We are characters in His invisible creation and when played out, we see our flesh which is formed from processed information. Mother nature is just a symbolic phrase that some people use to deny that there is a Creator.

I know you don't believe anything exists in reality Brad. You think everything is an illusion except God. Yet you are controlled by your own illusion and perception of God.
You fool yourself with your own invisible vibrating mind.

God is just as symbolic of reality as Mother Nature is. To deny that is to live in your own created fantasy.

Supernatural characters including God are all man made constructs. They all symbolize the powers of the universe.

Any creator is nothing but energy. It makes no difference what label you place on it. Mother Nature, God, Father Time all represent the same energy.

Energy has no thoughts of its own. Any thoughts that exist, exist only in the minds of the living things which are capable of any thought at all.

Thought waves are transmitted through the air like sound and picture waves. They come from humans to humans.They do not come from any supernatural entity at all.

Put together all the thoughts in existence and you can call those the thoughts of God if you wish but ultimately you are referring to the combination of all thoughts in existence not to any individual thoughts of some individual supernatural entity.

Every person is controlled by their own mind and own thoughts unless they decide to submit to other peoples thoughts and demands and obey them.

Anyone who denies the knowledge of God ( Christ ) is an antichrist. You are an antichrist.

But I do not deny the knowledge of God so how can I be an antichrist?
I have plenty of knowledge of God just as I have plenty of knowledge of Mother Nature.

You don't have any knowledge of God. You only think you do from your own interpretations of what you read. God teaches us saints who we are in Him and once we learn that we're His voice, we get very confident in what we testify to.

Do you see me lacking confidence? LOL
Everyone is confident that they are correct in their own mind. It makes no difference how insane people are. They all believe their own mind and are confident that they are right.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/18/2014 1:02:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 12:57:46 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2014 10:44:43 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/17/2014 9:35:27 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2014 7:34:49 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 12/17/2014 6:45:53 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2014 5:33:28 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/17/2014 5:00:20 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2014 4:43:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Well, does she?

God and His thoughts are all that exists. We are characters in His invisible creation and when played out, we see our flesh which is formed from processed information. Mother nature is just a symbolic phrase that some people use to deny that there is a Creator.

I know you don't believe anything exists in reality Brad. You think everything is an illusion except God. Yet you are controlled by your own illusion and perception of God.
You fool yourself with your own invisible vibrating mind.

God is just as symbolic of reality as Mother Nature is. To deny that is to live in your own created fantasy.

Supernatural characters including God are all man made constructs. They all symbolize the powers of the universe.

Any creator is nothing but energy. It makes no difference what label you place on it. Mother Nature, God, Father Time all represent the same energy.

Energy has no thoughts of its own. Any thoughts that exist, exist only in the minds of the living things which are capable of any thought at all.

Thought waves are transmitted through the air like sound and picture waves. They come from humans to humans.They do not come from any supernatural entity at all.

Put together all the thoughts in existence and you can call those the thoughts of God if you wish but ultimately you are referring to the combination of all thoughts in existence not to any individual thoughts of some individual supernatural entity.

Every person is controlled by their own mind and own thoughts unless they decide to submit to other peoples thoughts and demands and obey them.

Anyone who denies the knowledge of God ( Christ ) is an antichrist. You are an antichrist.

No mate. Anyone who refuses to acknowledge that, Jesus came as a human being, who was born of two human parents and was of the seed of Adam, is an anti-christ, an enemy of the truth.

That's what the antichrists who published the new testament wanted their Christians to believe. Jesus was the first saint among all God's saints. I am the last one He's using to testify to His knowledge ( Christ ).

You testify of things in your own imaginations Brad. You are not a last saint of any kind and Jesus was not a first saint either. Saints are mentioned in the bible stories well before Jesus was born. (Deut 33:2)

Your own belief means God will have no one to testify to the knowledge of God after 25th January 2015. All people for the rest of Eternity will never know the truth because Brad will not be here to tell them. What a shame. God will no longer speak to anyone on the planet after Brad dies.

Wake up to your own stupidity Brad.

The 1,000 year reign of Christ will end with the death of my body. I've been writing and speaking for our Creator since June 16th, 2008 and from those testimonies, I have learned that I was created as His voice. By possessing the knowledge of God, I know exactly who was chosen as His believers and who were made antichrists that reject the spoken Word that I preach to them. You're one of those antichrists who reject His Word.

And you will prove yourself to be a liar and false prophet on the 26th January when you are still alive. You can come and repent of your lies on that day and stop preaching them too.

I reject your stupidity and lies Brad. That is all I reject about you.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/18/2014 1:03:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 12:59:24 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/18/2014 12:45:30 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2014 10:26:58 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/17/2014 6:45:53 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2014 5:33:28 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/17/2014 5:00:20 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2014 4:43:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Well, does she?

God and His thoughts are all that exists. We are characters in His invisible creation and when played out, we see our flesh which is formed from processed information. Mother nature is just a symbolic phrase that some people use to deny that there is a Creator.

I know you don't believe anything exists in reality Brad. You think everything is an illusion except God. Yet you are controlled by your own illusion and perception of God.
You fool yourself with your own invisible vibrating mind.

God is just as symbolic of reality as Mother Nature is. To deny that is to live in your own created fantasy.

Supernatural characters including God are all man made constructs. They all symbolize the powers of the universe.

Any creator is nothing but energy. It makes no difference what label you place on it. Mother Nature, God, Father Time all represent the same energy.

Energy has no thoughts of its own. Any thoughts that exist, exist only in the minds of the living things which are capable of any thought at all.

Thought waves are transmitted through the air like sound and picture waves. They come from humans to humans.They do not come from any supernatural entity at all.

Put together all the thoughts in existence and you can call those the thoughts of God if you wish but ultimately you are referring to the combination of all thoughts in existence not to any individual thoughts of some individual supernatural entity.

Every person is controlled by their own mind and own thoughts unless they decide to submit to other peoples thoughts and demands and obey them.

Anyone who denies the knowledge of God ( Christ ) is an antichrist. You are an antichrist.

But I do not deny the knowledge of God so how can I be an antichrist?
I have plenty of knowledge of God just as I have plenty of knowledge of Mother Nature.

You don't have any knowledge of God. You only think you do from your own interpretations of what you read. God teaches us saints who we are in Him and once we learn that we're His voice, we get very confident in what we testify to.

Do you see me lacking confidence? LOL
Everyone is confident that they are correct in their own mind. It makes no difference how insane people are. They all believe their own mind and are confident that they are right.

False prophets are confident but most of God's people aren't that confident in what they believe. We saints are killed because of our testimonies so we have to be confident in what we speak for our Creator who planned our deaths.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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12/18/2014 1:34:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/17/2014 7:34:49 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 12/17/2014 6:45:53 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2014 5:33:28 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/17/2014 5:00:20 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2014 4:43:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Well, does she?

God and His thoughts are all that exists. We are characters in His invisible creation and when played out, we see our flesh which is formed from processed information. Mother nature is just a symbolic phrase that some people use to deny that there is a Creator.

I know you don't believe anything exists in reality Brad. You think everything is an illusion except God. Yet you are controlled by your own illusion and perception of God.
You fool yourself with your own invisible vibrating mind.

God is just as symbolic of reality as Mother Nature is. To deny that is to live in your own created fantasy.

Supernatural characters including God are all man made constructs. They all symbolize the powers of the universe.

Any creator is nothing but energy. It makes no difference what label you place on it. Mother Nature, God, Father Time all represent the same energy.

Energy has no thoughts of its own. Any thoughts that exist, exist only in the minds of the living things which are capable of any thought at all.

Thought waves are transmitted through the air like sound and picture waves. They come from humans to humans.They do not come from any supernatural entity at all.

Put together all the thoughts in existence and you can call those the thoughts of God if you wish but ultimately you are referring to the combination of all thoughts in existence not to any individual thoughts of some individual supernatural entity.

Every person is controlled by their own mind and own thoughts unless they decide to submit to other peoples thoughts and demands and obey them.

Anyone who denies the knowledge of God ( Christ ) is an antichrist. You are an antichrist.

No mate. Anyone who refuses to acknowledge that, Jesus came as a human being, who was born of two human parents and was of the seed of Adam, is an anti-christ, an enemy of the truth.

Why, because you wish to believe an obvious myth? Go ahead, present actual credible historical evidence for a Jew who performed miracles, formed a large following and was crucified despite committing no crime.

It's time that you learned that you are not the measure of credible assessment. There is no reason that others should believe old fables simply because you do.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Skyangel
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12/18/2014 3:11:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 12:42:12 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 12/18/2014 12:32:49 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/17/2014 11:42:40 PM, jodybirdy wrote:

Alright, look at it like this. This is a hypothetical argument. Said aliens discover Earth and find that there are all kinds of life forms inhabiting it. The most interesting would obviously be humans. Lets just say they're filming a documentary of human behaviors. They see us having sex, eating, killing, helping each other... you get the idea. They have no way of communicating with us. They beam people onto their space craft and perform experiments, tag them, record dream patterns, and come to the conclusion that we have no conscience because all of our emotions are reactionary. And to their standard of what conscience is we are no different than monkeys or dogs. The end.

Well you could look at it like that.
However, how do you explain the laws you find amongst humans? They are written down for all to read and the consequences of disobedience are also written down for all to read. What other animals write their laws down for all to study so you can determine what they believe is right and wrong for them to do? By studying animal behavior we learn that there are leaders and followers and the leaders make the others submit to them or kill them.
They fight to determine who becomes the ultimate leader.
Humans do the same in many ways but at least they make their own laws and the leaders ought to abide by the same laws as everyone else. However in reality they often do not and that is why evil prevails in the world. Many leaders are corrupt. They are in leadership for the money and nothing else.

Humans have huge brains and primitive emotions. Enough said.

Some are led by their own greed, some are led by their emotions, some are led by instinct, some are led by their imaginations and I am sure you can add plenty of other things to0 the list of things that humans are led by. Ultimately that "leader" can be called the God which motivates them to do whatever they do. Some of those gods seem good and some seem evil. Whether they are led by good or evil is evidenced in human words and actions.

If you believed animals had a conscience would you kill animals and eat them just because you were hungry or would you become vegetarian?

I AM a vegetarian. and to be honest if it weren't for the cream in my coffee I'd qualify as vegan. I believe vertebrates are sentient. I believe many mammals have developed somewhat of a conscience on top of being sentient. I don't eat them.

Well that's perfectly understandable if you believe they have a conscience. Obviously your own conscience won't let you eat them. Your own beliefs regarding right and wrong control your actions as they do for most other normal people.

If a dog attacks a person, does it have a guilty conscience for hurting the person afterwards or it is just reacting out of fear and trying to defend itself from some perceived threat or maybe it was trained to attack? Either way I doubt it would feel any guilt about hurting a human.

Acting out of fear is also a human trait. And human feelings of guilt are a reaction to the fear of rejection for our actions. What's the difference?

The difference is humans put humans through trials and judgements for their actions. Animals don't do that to each other. When a human kills another human they are judged and allowed to defend their own actions. Dogs are not. If a dog kills a person humans put them down no questions asked. They get no trials. The dogs just get judged as guilty even if the human they killed was the cause of the attack in the first place. No one asks if the person was being cruel to the dog or mistreating it to make it defend itself.

Some people on the other hand would feel guilty for just stepping on a dogs tail by accident and hurting it. They get down and pet it and apologize and try to make some kind of restitution because they feel bad and they need to do something to make themselves feel better. I don't see any animals trying to make any kind of restitution for any of their actions.

Empathy and guilt are not the same thing.

I am talking about the act of making restitution to make things better when you know you have done something wrong or you have done something that made you feel bad.

I have seen acts of empathy in dogs, or at least acts which could be interpreted as empathy, but that's not the same as trying to make restitution for something.

Dogs seem to be able to sense when their owners are happy or sad.