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Christ's 1,000 year reign

MadCornishBiker
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12/18/2014 12:00:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
One of my opponents on here has been trying to convince me, unsuccessfully, for some months now that all prophecy was fulfilled in teh 1st century, and that Christ's 1,000 year reign in fact lasted 40 years from 30 CE to 70 CE.

Is that possible?

Revelation 20
ASV(i) 1 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, the old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, 3 and cast him into the abyss, and shut it, and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years should be finished: after this he must be loosed for a little time. 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: over these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


That is Christ's 1,000 year reign or in PGA's view his 40 year reign. Has it all happened? Well has the remainder of this been fulfilled, even 1945 years later?

7 And when the thousand years are finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 and shall come forth to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up over the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down out of heaven, and devoured them.

I know PGA belkieves, wrongly, that teh "holy city" in this case was Jerusalem, but was it?

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Has teh Devil been destroyed for ecer?

The events in teh world around us suggest not.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne; and books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

HAve teh dead been raised in teh second reusrrection yet? Ci see no signs of that.

14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire. 15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

Have death and Hades (Hell or the Grave) been destroyed yet?

Surely peple are still dying by their thousands, daily?

Revelation 21:1-5
ASV(i) 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth are passed away; and the sea is no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven of God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: 4 and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. 5 And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true.


Has every tear been wiped from people's eyes?

Is death no more?

Is there no more mourning?

No crying?

No pain?

Are all things new, fresh, changed for teh better?

To me, things are very much as they always have been with no significant improvement and in some ways worse.

I am sure those parents who recently lost thier children in that Pakistani school are mourning and crying, and their children are not coming home again.

No PGA, Christ's reign is most definitely not over, it hasn't been going for much more than 100 years let alone 1,000.

Is the 1,000 years literal? Well if not why did God have John write it? Whenever he has wanted a time period or number to be figurative he has made it clear it has been in one way or another, for instance the creative "day", we are not told directly how long each one was.

In Daniel 9 we are told when Christ will appear, how long his miominstry will last, and the manner of his death, bht we are not given those times literally and need scriptural keys to work it out.

No, 1,000 years is givne as a figure becuase it is literal.

In the same way thye 144,000 is literal, but they are not of Natural Israel, which is shown by the fact that only ten of the twelve tribes named were ever tribes of Israel.

Why use the names of even ten tribes if it is not literal Israel?

Because as Paul carefully explains, the "rootstock" of what later beccame known as the Christian Congregation, Spiritual Israel, was made up of the faithtful of Israel's remnants, though Israel itself no longer existed.

In exactly the same way, today, Jehovah's Witnesses are comprised initially of the faithful at heart from Spiritual Israel, pulled out by teh Glorified Heavenly King, Christ Jesus to finish of teh work he started, collect togetehr as many of those from spiritual Israel as they could find, and then spread the net over the "Gentile nations" and gather what fish they could from them.

This is done in obedience to Jesus commands to his followers and in fulfilment of Matthew 24:14.

No, the 1,000 year reign is not over, and we have nearly 900 years to go in whcih thnings such as teh tribulation such as has never been seen before, nor will again will be brought to it's head, false religion, the "false prophet" of all varieties, including pseudo-Christian, will be brought to nothing, teh dead will be resurrected, taught and given chance to practice, and finally the final test of teh work of the teachers, to see who can stand as fathful when Satan is given one last, brief, cahnce to do his worst.

Then, and only then will Christ's reign end, because then and only then will humanity be back in a state where God can once again deal with us directly, as Revelation 21 and 22 describe, as well as prophecies in ISaiah and otehr books.

Even though I am not currently one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I long for that tiem, and look forward with hope and trust in my heart to being there. As a disfellowshipped person my chances are reduced, but not by 100% and I trust myself to the judgement of Christ with 100% faith in that judegement's fairness.

Sorry it was a long one, but it had to be said and I could not sleep until it had been posted. When thespirit moves you, you have to follow it, or you cannot rest. Such is the price of being one of God's servants, but it is a price I pay happily.

And so back to bed.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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12/18/2014 12:19:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago

I know PGA belkieves, wrongly, that teh "holy city" in this case was Jerusalem, but was it?

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Has teh Devil been destroyed for ecer?

The events in teh world around us suggest not.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne; and books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

HAve teh dead been raised in teh second reusrrection yet? Ci see no signs of that.

14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire. 15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

Have death and Hades (Hell or the Grave) been destroyed yet?

Surely peple are still dying by their thousands, daily?

Revelation 21:1-5
ASV(i) 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth are passed away; and the sea is no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven of God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: 4 and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. 5 And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true.


Has every tear been wiped from people's eyes?

Is death no more?

Is there no more mourning?

No crying?

No pain?

Are all things new, fresh, changed for teh better?

To me, things are very much as they always have been with no significant improvement and in some ways worse.

I am sure those parents who recently lost thier children in that Pakistani school are mourning and crying, and their children are not coming home again.

No PGA, Christ's reign is most definitely not over, it hasn't been going for much more than 100 years let alone 1,000.

Is the 1,000 years literal? Well if not why did God have John write it? Whenever he has wanted a time period or number to be figurative he has made it clear it has been in one way or another, for instance the creative "day", we are not told directly how long each one was.

In Daniel 9 we are told when Christ will appear, how long his miominstry will last, and the manner of his death, bht we are not given those times literally and need scriptural keys to work it out.

No, 1,000 years is givne as a figure becuase it is literal.

In the same way thye 144,000 is literal, but they are not of Natural Israel, which is shown by the fact that only ten of the twelve tribes named were ever tribes of Israel.

Why use the names of even ten tribes if it is not literal Israel?

Because as Paul carefully explains, the "rootstock" of what later beccame known as the Christian Congregation, Spiritual Israel, was made up of the faithtful of Israel's remnants, though Israel itself no longer existed.

In exactly the same way, today, Jehovah's Witnesses are comprised initially of the faithful at heart from Spiritual Israel, pulled out by teh Glorified Heavenly King, Christ Jesus to finish of teh work he started, collect togetehr as many of those from spiritual Israel as they could find, and then spread the net over the "Gentile nations" and gather what fish they could from them.

This is done in obedience to Jesus commands to his followers and in fulfilment of Matthew 24:14.

No, the 1,000 year reign is not over, and we have nearly 900 years to go in whcih thnings such as teh tribulation such as has never been seen before, nor will again will be brought to it's head, false religion, the "false prophet" of all varieties, including pseudo-Christian, will be brought to nothing, teh dead will be resurrected, taught and given chance to practice, and finally the final test of teh work of the teachers, to see who can stand as fathful when Satan is given one last, brief, cahnce to do his worst.

Then, and only then will Christ's reign end, because then and only then will humanity be back in a state where God can once again deal with us directly, as Revelation 21 and 22 describe, as well as prophecies in ISaiah and otehr books.

Even though I am not currently one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I long for that tiem, and look forward with hope and trust in my heart to being there. As a disfellowshipped person my chances are reduced, but not by 100% and I trust myself to the judgement of Christ with 100% faith in that judegement's fairness.

Sorry it was a long one, but it had to be said and I could not sleep until it had been posted. When thespirit moves you, you have to follow it, or you cannot rest. Such is the price of being one of God's servants, but it is a price I pay happily.

And so back to bed.

Logical possibilities are:
These are all stories, nothing more.
The interpretation was not as spoken.
John the Revelator was high as a damn kite.
God lied, and was not as powerful as he hoped (Satan or the opposition won)
The Bible as it stands is incomplete.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/18/2014 5:09:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 12:19:37 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:

I know PGA belkieves, wrongly, that teh "holy city" in this case was Jerusalem, but was it?

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Has teh Devil been destroyed for ecer?

The events in teh world around us suggest not.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne; and books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

HAve teh dead been raised in teh second reusrrection yet? Ci see no signs of that.

14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire. 15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

Have death and Hades (Hell or the Grave) been destroyed yet?

Surely peple are still dying by their thousands, daily?

Revelation 21:1-5
ASV(i) 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth are passed away; and the sea is no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven of God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: 4 and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. 5 And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true.


Has every tear been wiped from people's eyes?

Is death no more?

Is there no more mourning?

No crying?

No pain?

Are all things new, fresh, changed for teh better?

To me, things are very much as they always have been with no significant improvement and in some ways worse.

I am sure those parents who recently lost thier children in that Pakistani school are mourning and crying, and their children are not coming home again.

No PGA, Christ's reign is most definitely not over, it hasn't been going for much more than 100 years let alone 1,000.

Is the 1,000 years literal? Well if not why did God have John write it? Whenever he has wanted a time period or number to be figurative he has made it clear it has been in one way or another, for instance the creative "day", we are not told directly how long each one was.

In Daniel 9 we are told when Christ will appear, how long his miominstry will last, and the manner of his death, bht we are not given those times literally and need scriptural keys to work it out.

No, 1,000 years is givne as a figure becuase it is literal.

In the same way thye 144,000 is literal, but they are not of Natural Israel, which is shown by the fact that only ten of the twelve tribes named were ever tribes of Israel.

Why use the names of even ten tribes if it is not literal Israel?

Because as Paul carefully explains, the "rootstock" of what later beccame known as the Christian Congregation, Spiritual Israel, was made up of the faithtful of Israel's remnants, though Israel itself no longer existed.

In exactly the same way, today, Jehovah's Witnesses are comprised initially of the faithful at heart from Spiritual Israel, pulled out by teh Glorified Heavenly King, Christ Jesus to finish of teh work he started, collect togetehr as many of those from spiritual Israel as they could find, and then spread the net over the "Gentile nations" and gather what fish they could from them.

This is done in obedience to Jesus commands to his followers and in fulfilment of Matthew 24:14.

No, the 1,000 year reign is not over, and we have nearly 900 years to go in whcih thnings such as teh tribulation such as has never been seen before, nor will again will be brought to it's head, false religion, the "false prophet" of all varieties, including pseudo-Christian, will be brought to nothing, teh dead will be resurrected, taught and given chance to practice, and finally the final test of teh work of the teachers, to see who can stand as fathful when Satan is given one last, brief, cahnce to do his worst.

Then, and only then will Christ's reign end, because then and only then will humanity be back in a state where God can once again deal with us directly, as Revelation 21 and 22 describe, as well as prophecies in ISaiah and otehr books.

Even though I am not currently one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I long for that tiem, and look forward with hope and trust in my heart to being there. As a disfellowshipped person my chances are reduced, but not by 100% and I trust myself to the judgement of Christ with 100% faith in that judegement's fairness.

Sorry it was a long one, but it had to be said and I could not sleep until it had been posted. When thespirit moves you, you have to follow it, or you cannot rest. Such is the price of being one of God's servants, but it is a price I pay happily.

And so back to bed.

Logical possibilities are:
These are all stories, nothing more.
The interpretation was not as spoken.
John the Revelator was high as a damn kite.
God lied, and was not as powerful as he hoped (Satan or the opposition won)
The Bible as it stands is incomplete.

And the most logical of all is that what I say above is true, which it is.

Incmplete? Well there is morre to come, but not this side of Armageddon. It is complete up to that. The rest of what we have is for our encouragement.

However, after Armageddon the survivors will need, and will be given more so that they can teach the resurrected.

Revelation is an expansion on the earlier prophecies whihc were much less detailed, but also provided for teh encouragement of Israel.

No, John was not high, the wording is possibly not exact due to all the translation but still contains the truth if you dig for it, and no, not jsut stories by any means.

No Satan has not won, in fact he now knows he has lost and is awaiting sentence. However whilst he has not won the war he has won in the case of too many individuals, though frankly even 1 would have been more than God wanted.

However, despite being given a very fair chance to do so Satan has failed to prove his case sufficiently.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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12/18/2014 5:13:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Revelation 21:1-5
ASV(i) 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth are passed away; and the sea is no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven of God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: 4 and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. 5 And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true.


Has every tear been wiped from people's eyes?

Is death no more?

Is there no more mourning?

No crying?

No pain?

Are all things new, fresh, changed for teh better?

To me, things are very much as they always have been with no significant improvement and in some ways worse.

I am sure those parents who recently lost thier children in that Pakistani school are mourning and crying, and their children are not coming home again.

No PGA, Christ's reign is most definitely not over, it hasn't been going for much more than 100 years let alone 1,000.

Is the 1,000 years literal? Well if not why did God have John write it? Whenever he has wanted a time period or number to be figurative he has made it clear it has been in one way or another, for instance the creative "day", we are not told directly how long each one was.

In Daniel 9 we are told when Christ will appear, how long his miominstry will last, and the manner of his death, bht we are not given those times literally and need scriptural keys to work it out.

No, 1,000 years is givne as a figure becuase it is literal.

In the same way thye 144,000 is literal, but they are not of Natural Israel, which is shown by the fact that only ten of the twelve tribes named were ever tribes of Israel.

Why use the names of even ten tribes if it is not literal Israel?

Because as Paul carefully explains, the "rootstock" of what later beccame known as the Christian Congregation, Spiritual Israel, was made up of the faithtful of Israel's remnants, though Israel itself no longer existed.

In exactly the same way, today, Jehovah's Witnesses are comprised initially of the faithful at heart from Spiritual Israel, pulled out by teh Glorified Heavenly King, Christ Jesus to finish of teh work he started, collect togetehr as many of those from spiritual Israel as they could find, and then spread the net over the "Gentile nations" and gather what fish they could from them.

This is done in obedience to Jesus commands to his followers and in fulfilment of Matthew 24:14.

No, the 1,000 year reign is not over, and we have nearly 900 years to go in whcih thnings such as teh tribulation such as has never been seen before, nor will again will be brought to it's head, false religion, the "false prophet" of all varieties, including pseudo-Christian, will be brought to nothing, teh dead will be resurrected, taught and given chance to practice, and finally the final test of teh work of the teachers, to see who can stand as fathful when Satan is given one last, brief, cahnce to do his worst.

Then, and only then will Christ's reign end, because then and only then will humanity be back in a state where God can once again deal with us directly, as Revelation 21 and 22 describe, as well as prophecies in ISaiah and otehr books.

Even though I am not currently one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I long for that tiem, and look forward with hope and trust in my heart to being there. As a disfellowshipped person my chances are reduced, but not by 100% and I trust myself to the judgement of Christ with 100% faith in that judegement's fairness.

Sorry it was a long one, but it had to be said and I could not sleep until it had been posted. When thespirit moves you, you have to follow it, or you cannot rest. Such is the price of being one of God's servants, but it is a price I pay happily.

And so back to bed.

Logical possibilities are:
These are all stories, nothing more.
The interpretation was not as spoken.
John the Revelator was high as a damn kite.
God lied, and was not as powerful as he hoped (Satan or the opposition won)
The Bible as it stands is incomplete.

And the most logical of all is that what I say above is true, which it is.

Of course. Those suggestions are not only is implausible but also impossible because....

(any explanation that comes from the Bible and references the Bible isn't an explanation, btw)
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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12/18/2014 5:36:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Be afraid, be very afraid.
Armageddon wil happen without any doubt as per the very word of god in 1914.
Mark that on your calender.
It is just as certain as the fact that Christ has taken up his throne in 1874.

So saith scripture and is the unchangeable word of god.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/18/2014 5:53:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 5:13:58 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
Revelation 21:1-5
ASV(i) 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth are passed away; and the sea is no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven of God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: 4 and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. 5 And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true.


Has every tear been wiped from people's eyes?

Is death no more?

Is there no more mourning?

No crying?

No pain?

Are all things new, fresh, changed for teh better?

To me, things are very much as they always have been with no significant improvement and in some ways worse.

I am sure those parents who recently lost thier children in that Pakistani school are mourning and crying, and their children are not coming home again.

No PGA, Christ's reign is most definitely not over, it hasn't been going for much more than 100 years let alone 1,000.

Is the 1,000 years literal? Well if not why did God have John write it? Whenever he has wanted a time period or number to be figurative he has made it clear it has been in one way or another, for instance the creative "day", we are not told directly how long each one was.

In Daniel 9 we are told when Christ will appear, how long his miominstry will last, and the manner of his death, bht we are not given those times literally and need scriptural keys to work it out.

No, 1,000 years is givne as a figure becuase it is literal.

In the same way thye 144,000 is literal, but they are not of Natural Israel, which is shown by the fact that only ten of the twelve tribes named were ever tribes of Israel.

Why use the names of even ten tribes if it is not literal Israel?

Because as Paul carefully explains, the "rootstock" of what later beccame known as the Christian Congregation, Spiritual Israel, was made up of the faithtful of Israel's remnants, though Israel itself no longer existed.

In exactly the same way, today, Jehovah's Witnesses are comprised initially of the faithful at heart from Spiritual Israel, pulled out by teh Glorified Heavenly King, Christ Jesus to finish of teh work he started, collect togetehr as many of those from spiritual Israel as they could find, and then spread the net over the "Gentile nations" and gather what fish they could from them.

This is done in obedience to Jesus commands to his followers and in fulfilment of Matthew 24:14.

No, the 1,000 year reign is not over, and we have nearly 900 years to go in whcih thnings such as teh tribulation such as has never been seen before, nor will again will be brought to it's head, false religion, the "false prophet" of all varieties, including pseudo-Christian, will be brought to nothing, teh dead will be resurrected, taught and given chance to practice, and finally the final test of teh work of the teachers, to see who can stand as fathful when Satan is given one last, brief, cahnce to do his worst.

Then, and only then will Christ's reign end, because then and only then will humanity be back in a state where God can once again deal with us directly, as Revelation 21 and 22 describe, as well as prophecies in ISaiah and otehr books.

Even though I am not currently one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I long for that tiem, and look forward with hope and trust in my heart to being there. As a disfellowshipped person my chances are reduced, but not by 100% and I trust myself to the judgement of Christ with 100% faith in that judegement's fairness.

Sorry it was a long one, but it had to be said and I could not sleep until it had been posted. When thespirit moves you, you have to follow it, or you cannot rest. Such is the price of being one of God's servants, but it is a price I pay happily.

And so back to bed.

Logical possibilities are:
These are all stories, nothing more.
The interpretation was not as spoken.
John the Revelator was high as a damn kite.
God lied, and was not as powerful as he hoped (Satan or the opposition won)
The Bible as it stands is incomplete.

And the most logical of all is that what I say above is true, which it is.

Of course. Those suggestions are not only is implausible but also impossible because....

(any explanation that comes from the Bible and references the Bible isn't an explanation, btw)

The bible is a book designed to tell us:

Why mankind was created.

How we were created to be.

Why we aren't that way at present.

What God planned about that.

What the end result will be.

The bible is the book which, contains a brief introducation which answers the first 4 points.

A brief summary which explanis the last point.

And in between is a consistent and honest account to the graual development of that plan including its most significant successes and failures and slowly expanding on aspects of teh plan as it progresses.

It is a book with a definite purpose whhc can only be served properly by an honest and open account whi8ch also allows us to know all that is important at any one tiem about God, his son, and the Plan.

Read correctly it is consistent from Genesis to Revelation, though the eye witness accounts do contain a certain variation of viewpoint as does any eye witness report.

However tehre is nothing in there whihc is not recncilable either by assessing teh possible difference of viewpoint, or in teh case of teh Gospel combining teh accounts to get an overall picture.

Does that help?
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,560
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12/18/2014 7:20:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 12:00:14 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

Has every tear been wiped from people's eyes?

Is death no more?

Is there no more mourning?

No crying?

No pain?

Are all things new, fresh, changed for teh better?

To me, things are very much as they always have been with no significant improvement and in some ways worse.

I am sure those parents who recently lost thier children in that Pakistani school are mourning and crying, and their children are not coming home again.

No PGA, Christ's reign is most definitely not over, it hasn't been going for much more than 100 years let alone 1,000.

So, under Christ's reign, things don't get better, they get worse progressively.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/18/2014 8:20:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 7:20:26 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/18/2014 12:00:14 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

Has every tear been wiped from people's eyes?

Is death no more?

Is there no more mourning?

No crying?

No pain?

Are all things new, fresh, changed for teh better?

To me, things are very much as they always have been with no significant improvement and in some ways worse.

I am sure those parents who recently lost thier children in that Pakistani school are mourning and crying, and their children are not coming home again.

No PGA, Christ's reign is most definitely not over, it hasn't been going for much more than 100 years let alone 1,000.

So, under Christ's reign, things don't get better, they get worse progressively.

Only during teh firrst part of his reign'

We are currently 100 years inot that reign, woth 900 to go. How much longer God can leave it before he has to, as Christ also said in Matthew 24 step in and bring the tribulation to an end so that some flesh can be saved, I dont know, but look around yuo, see what we are doing to our planet and each otehjr, and ask yourself how much longer can God afford to leave iut?

When will he feel the warning has been sufficiently sounded so that he can act?

How much of the ensuing 900 years will be needed to resurrect all the dead? teach them? and give them the opportunity to practice, with eternity in view, and no outside interference since Satan will be imprisoned?

Only he knows. but he will not act whilst he feels there are any who will listen to the warning and turn to him for help, or until teh critical balance is reached, whihc ever comes soonest.

That is why Jehovah's Witnesses are all torn between a desire to see all suffering brought to an end, and a desire to have enough time to reach as many as they can and help them save themselves.

In a way yes, because the act of ejecting Satan from heaven, whilst it left Christ free to arrange the c\leanup there, it also meant Satan culd no longer spend most of his time up there taunting God and the faithful angels over teh ones that Satan, using his demons, had ben able to turn away.

The moment Satan was cast out he knew for certai that he ahd ost, and that his time was not very limited, though he was not aware exactly how long.

That meant that not only was he angry and out for revenge, but that he had the ability to concetrate more on humans.

Because God had given Satan a set time he could not go against his own word, and so once Christ had set the cleanup of the heavens in motion all that was open to him was to set up the preaching work he had already foretold to make sure that as many people as wanted to listen would know what was happengin and why, and this he did.

That is what I am an active part of.

Scripture is the evidence God has given us for his case, and teh sourcve of teh warnings also.

From there on in it is, as always, down to whether or not people had teh sense to listen to tehw arnings and act accordingly.

Back in Matthew 24 Christ foretold a "tribulation such as has never been seen before, no, nor will be seens again".

At has only recently been realised that this tribulation is not from God, but is in fact man-made under the influence of Satan and his demons, who have a limited version of teh same facility for influencing people as God and uses it to full effect.

God will only intervene and step up his protection for thsoe who ask him, otherwise all just get basic protection.

The big problem is that mankind has a distinct tendency to ignore warnings, and almost every disaster has shown that, even the prevalence of Drink Driving is a symptom of the "Oh it'll never happen to me" syndrome.

Howver, God will protect all who listeen from teh worst excesses of Satan's system, and will only alow such as I to suffer if our suffering provides a good example to others of endurance through faith.

So yes, the old saying is very true, things are giong to get worse, much worse, before they get better.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,560
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12/18/2014 8:24:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 8:20:18 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/18/2014 7:20:26 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/18/2014 12:00:14 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

Has every tear been wiped from people's eyes?

Is death no more?

Is there no more mourning?

No crying?

No pain?

Are all things new, fresh, changed for teh better?

To me, things are very much as they always have been with no significant improvement and in some ways worse.

I am sure those parents who recently lost thier children in that Pakistani school are mourning and crying, and their children are not coming home again.

No PGA, Christ's reign is most definitely not over, it hasn't been going for much more than 100 years let alone 1,000.

So, under Christ's reign, things don't get better, they get worse progressively.

Only during teh firrst part of his reign'

You contradict yourself, you said things are getting worse under Christ's rule.

We are currently 100 years inot that reign, woth 900 to go.

So, the reign began in 1914? How does that work?

How much longer God can leave it before he has to, as Christ also said in Matthew 24 step in and bring the tribulation to an end so that some flesh can be saved, I dont know, but look around yuo, see what we are doing to our planet and each otehjr, and ask yourself how much longer can God afford to leave iut?

When will he feel the warning has been sufficiently sounded so that he can act?

How much of the ensuing 900 years will be needed to resurrect all the dead? teach them? and give them the opportunity to practice, with eternity in view, and no outside interference since Satan will be imprisoned?

Only he knows. but he will not act whilst he feels there are any who will listen to the warning and turn to him for help, or until teh critical balance is reached, whihc ever comes soonest.

That is why Jehovah's Witnesses are all torn between a desire to see all suffering brought to an end, and a desire to have enough time to reach as many as they can and help them save themselves.

In a way yes, because the act of ejecting Satan from heaven, whilst it left Christ free to arrange the c\leanup there, it also meant Satan culd no longer spend most of his time up there taunting God and the faithful angels over teh ones that Satan, using his demons, had ben able to turn away.

The moment Satan was cast out he knew for certai that he ahd ost, and that his time was not very limited, though he was not aware exactly how long.

That meant that not only was he angry and out for revenge, but that he had the ability to concetrate more on humans.

Because God had given Satan a set time he could not go against his own word, and so once Christ had set the cleanup of the heavens in motion all that was open to him was to set up the preaching work he had already foretold to make sure that as many people as wanted to listen would know what was happengin and why, and this he did.

That is what I am an active part of.

Scripture is the evidence God has given us for his case, and teh sourcve of teh warnings also.

From there on in it is, as always, down to whether or not people had teh sense to listen to tehw arnings and act accordingly.

Back in Matthew 24 Christ foretold a "tribulation such as has never been seen before, no, nor will be seens again".

At has only recently been realised that this tribulation is not from God, but is in fact man-made under the influence of Satan and his demons, who have a limited version of teh same facility for influencing people as God and uses it to full effect.

God will only intervene and step up his protection for thsoe who ask him, otherwise all just get basic protection.

The big problem is that mankind has a distinct tendency to ignore warnings, and almost every disaster has shown that, even the prevalence of Drink Driving is a symptom of the "Oh it'll never happen to me" syndrome.

Howver, God will protect all who listeen from teh worst excesses of Satan's system, and will only alow such as I to suffer if our suffering provides a good example to others of endurance through faith.

So yes, the old saying is very true, things are giong to get worse, much worse, before they get better.

Oh, I see now, you must invoke your invisible boogeyman as the cause. Should've known you had nothing to say.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/18/2014 8:43:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 8:24:03 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/18/2014 8:20:18 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:


You contradict yourself, you said things are getting worse under Christ's rule.

No, because I never said they would continue to do for the whole of his rule co I have not contradicted myslef except in youir imagination it seems..

I can only tell you what scripture says, nothing more nothing less..


We are currently 100 years inot that reign, woth 900 to go.

So, the reign began in 1914? How does that work?

Daniel 4 prtophesies "seven times until the end of the Gentile tikmes, which marks the start of Christ's right to rule.

CALCULATING THE "SEVEN TIMES"

"Seven times" = 7 X 360 = 2,520 years

A Biblical "time," or year = 12 X 30 days = 360. (Rev. 11:2,"3; 12:6,"14)

In the fulfillment of the "seven times" each day equals one year. (Ezek. 4:6; Num. 14:34)

Early October, 607"B.C.E., to December 31,"607"B.C.E.= 1/4 year

January 1,"606"B.C.E., to December 31,"1"B.C.E. = 606 years

January 1,"1"C.E., to December 31,"1913 = 1,913 years

January 1,"1914, to early October, 1914 = 3/4 year
Total: 2,520 years


How much longer God can leave it before he has to, as Christ also said in Matthew 24 step in and bring the tribulation to an end so that some flesh can be saved, I dont know, but look around yuo, see what we are doing to our planet and each otehjr, and ask yourself how much longer can God afford to leave iut?

When will he feel the warning has been sufficiently sounded so that he can act?

How much of the ensuing 900 years will be needed to resurrect all the dead? teach them? and give them the opportunity to practice, with eternity in view, and no outside interference since Satan will be imprisoned?

Only he knows. but he will not act whilst he feels there are any who will listen to the warning and turn to him for help, or until teh critical balance is reached, whihc ever comes soonest.

That is why Jehovah's Witnesses are all torn between a desire to see all suffering brought to an end, and a desire to have enough time to reach as many as they can and help them save themselves.

In a way yes, because the act of ejecting Satan from heaven, whilst it left Christ free to arrange the c\leanup there, it also meant Satan culd no longer spend most of his time up there taunting God and the faithful angels over teh ones that Satan, using his demons, had ben able to turn away.

The moment Satan was cast out he knew for certai that he ahd ost, and that his time was not very limited, though he was not aware exactly how long.

That meant that not only was he angry and out for revenge, but that he had the ability to concetrate more on humans.

Because God had given Satan a set time he could not go against his own word, and so once Christ had set the cleanup of the heavens in motion all that was open to him was to set up the preaching work he had already foretold to make sure that as many people as wanted to listen would know what was happengin and why, and this he did.

That is what I am an active part of.

Scripture is the evidence God has given us for his case, and teh sourcve of teh warnings also.

From there on in it is, as always, down to whether or not people had teh sense to listen to tehw arnings and act accordingly.

Back in Matthew 24 Christ foretold a "tribulation such as has never been seen before, no, nor will be seens again".

At has only recently been realised that this tribulation is not from God, but is in fact man-made under the influence of Satan and his demons, who have a limited version of teh same facility for influencing people as God and uses it to full effect.

God will only intervene and step up his protection for thsoe who ask him, otherwise all just get basic protection.

The big problem is that mankind has a distinct tendency to ignore warnings, and almost every disaster has shown that, even the prevalence of Drink Driving is a symptom of the "Oh it'll never happen to me" syndrome.

Howver, God will protect all who listeen from teh worst excesses of Satan's system, and will only alow such as I to suffer if our suffering provides a good example to others of endurance through faith.

So yes, the old saying is very true, things are giong to get worse, much worse, before they get better.

Oh, I see now, you must invoke your invisible boogeyman as the cause. Should've known you had nothing to say.

I can only blame the one who is to blame. If you choose not to beleive it, that is your choice, and exactly what he wants. It is easier for him to control/influence you without your even knowing if you don't believe he exists.

I'm not going to lie to suit you or anyone. If you don't want to accept teh truth, that's your problem not mine. I can't change the truth to suit you, no-one can, truthb is truth whether or not we like it.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,560
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12/18/2014 9:13:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 8:43:36 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

I can only tell you what scripture says, nothing more nothing less..

I know what scripture says, you don't have to tell me. And yes, you contradicted yourself, it was pointed out and it was obvious.

Daniel 4 prtophesies "seven times until the end of the Gentile tikmes, which marks the start of Christ's right to rule.

CALCULATING THE "SEVEN TIMES"

"Seven times" = 7 X 360 = 2,520 years

A Biblical "time," or year = 12 X 30 days = 360. (Rev. 11:2,"3; 12:6,"14)

In the fulfillment of the "seven times" each day equals one year. (Ezek. 4:6; Num. 14:34)

Early October, 607"B.C.E., to December 31,"607"B.C.E.= 1/4 year

January 1,"606"B.C.E., to December 31,"1"B.C.E. = 606 years

January 1,"1"C.E., to December 31,"1913 = 1,913 years

January 1,"1914, to early October, 1914 = 3/4 year
Total: 2,520 years

Wow, you just make up anything you want. Hilarious.

I can only blame the one who is to blame.

No, you don't, you blame the boogeyman, which has never been shown to exist.

If you choose not to beleive it, that is your choice, and exactly what he wants. It is easier for him to control/influence you without your even knowing if you don't believe he exists.

I certainly wouldn't believe the crap you're making up here.

I'm not going to lie to suit you or anyone.

But, you will lie to suit your beliefs.

If you don't want to accept teh truth, that's your problem not mine. I can't change the truth to suit you, no-one can, truthb is truth whether or not we like it.

Once again, your petty, childish threats are only that, petty and childish.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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12/18/2014 9:25:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Scripture, ie god, tells us that 1914 will be the end of the gentile times, it will be the end of all religions and all governments. God's word cannot be denied nor thwarted.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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12/18/2014 9:52:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 12:00:14 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
One of my opponents on here has been trying to convince me, unsuccessfully, for some months now that all prophecy was fulfilled in teh 1st century, and that Christ's 1,000 year reign in fact lasted 40 years from 30 CE to 70 CE.

Is that possible?

Revelation 20
ASV(i) 1 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, the old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, 3 and cast him into the abyss, and shut it, and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years should be finished: after this he must be loosed for a little time. 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: over these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


That is Christ's 1,000 year reign or in PGA's view his 40 year reign. Has it all happened? Well has the remainder of this been fulfilled, even 1945 years later?

7 And when the thousand years are finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 and shall come forth to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up over the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down out of heaven, and devoured them.

I know PGA belkieves, wrongly, that teh "holy city" in this case was Jerusalem, but was it?

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Has teh Devil been destroyed for ecer?

The events in teh world around us suggest not.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne; and books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

HAve teh dead been raised in teh second reusrrection yet? Ci see no signs of that.

14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire. 15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

Have death and Hades (Hell or the Grave) been destroyed yet?

Surely peple are still dying by their thousands, daily?

Revelation 21:1-5
ASV(i) 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth a:
And so back to bed.

Jehovah's Witnessis is a cult which reduces Jesus to a created being who is not God, and then makes you think that you can earn your way into paradise by serving the Watchtower. Watchtower is nothing but a scam for suckers, at best a social club and at worst a highway to Hell, where Christ repeatedly said the fire lasts forever and is never quenched and there will be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth and if the fouders of Watchtower have left this world rejecting Jesus Christ as God the Saviour, they are burning in the fire of Hell exactly as Christ said they would.
MadCornishBiker
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12/18/2014 10:08:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 9:52:13 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 12/18/2014 12:00:14 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:


Jehovah's Witnessis is a cult which reduces Jesus to a created being who is not God, and then makes you think that you can earn your way into paradise by serving the Watchtower. Watchtower is nothing but a scam for suckers, at best a social club and at worst a highway to Hell, where Christ repeatedly said the fire lasts forever and is never quenched and there will be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth and if the fouders of Watchtower have left this world rejecting Jesus Christ as God the Saviour, they are burning in the fire of Hell exactly as Christ said they would.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not reduce God's son to anything other than precisael;y what scripture says about him, as I have shown and can show from any trabslation.

Anyone who denies this denies God's word, and therby calls God a liar, just as Satan does.

God's woprd consistentlydescribes his son as a created being the first creation of God, and the only one made on his own, making teh description of them as fatehr and son a truly honest one.

He then aided his father in all other creative work, and after the fall of Adam took on teh role of his father's spokesman or "word" since God is unable to9 deal directly with any other than perfect beings.

Eventualy, at the end of his rule, when he has finishde his task and reutrned mankind to it's original state e will eb able to hand the Kingdom back to his father, and his father's "day of rest" will come to an end.

Deny scripture's description of God and his son at your peril.
MadCornishBiker
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12/18/2014 10:13:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 9:25:15 AM, bulproof wrote:
Scripture, ie god, tells us that 1914 will be the end of the gentile times, it will be the end of all religions and all governments. God's word cannot be denied nor thwarted.

That is true, and try as they might to hang on to their poisition they wil not be allowed to, and Armagdeddon wilol remove them from their "stolen" positions permanently

We are now beyond the end of teh Gentiole Times.

False religion and hiuman Governements are being given the opportunity to give up thier positions opf their own accord, as teh Pharisses were in Jesus time on earth, but when they refuse, as they willl, God will remove them by foprce, through his sojn CHrist Jesus.

That is God's promise and he will not5recind it.

Armageddon is only being delayed until God is satisfied all who will listen have had chance to.

God does not want to have to destroy any, but he will if forced to, by their unwillingness to behave in ways that are beneficial to all of creation.
MadCornishBiker
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12/18/2014 10:14:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 9:13:33 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/18/2014 8:43:36 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

I can only tell you what scripture says, nothing more nothing less..

I know what scripture says, you don't have to tell me. And yes, you contradicted yourself, it was pointed out and it was obvious.

Daniel 4 prtophesies "seven times until the end of the Gentile tikmes, which marks the start of Christ's right to rule.

CALCULATING THE "SEVEN TIMES"

"Seven times" = 7 X 360 = 2,520 years

A Biblical "time," or year = 12 X 30 days = 360. (Rev. 11:2,"3; 12:6,"14)

In the fulfillment of the "seven times" each day equals one year. (Ezek. 4:6; Num. 14:34)

Early October, 607"B.C.E., to December 31,"607"B.C.E.= 1/4 year

January 1,"606"B.C.E., to December 31,"1"B.C.E. = 606 years

January 1,"1"C.E., to December 31,"1913 = 1,913 years

January 1,"1914, to early October, 1914 = 3/4 year
Total: 2,520 years

Wow, you just make up anything you want. Hilarious.

I can only blame the one who is to blame.

No, you don't, you blame the boogeyman, which has never been shown to exist.

If you choose not to beleive it, that is your choice, and exactly what he wants. It is easier for him to control/influence you without your even knowing if you don't believe he exists.

I certainly wouldn't believe the crap you're making up here.

I'm not going to lie to suit you or anyone.

But, you will lie to suit your beliefs.

If you don't want to accept teh truth, that's your problem not mine. I can't change the truth to suit you, no-one can, truthb is truth whether or not we like it.

Once again, your petty, childish threats are only that, petty and childish.

It is not my promise, but God's so it is he you are really calling childish and petty.

I am only the messanger, nothing more.
annanicole
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12/18/2014 10:18:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 10:08:30 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/18/2014 9:52:13 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 12/18/2014 12:00:14 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:


Jehovah's Witnessis is a cult which reduces Jesus to a created being who is not God, and then makes you think that you can earn your way into paradise by serving the Watchtower. Watchtower is nothing but a scam for suckers, at best a social club and at worst a highway to Hell, where Christ repeatedly said the fire lasts forever and is never quenched and there will be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth and if the fouders of Watchtower have left this world rejecting Jesus Christ as God the Saviour, they are burning in the fire of Hell exactly as Christ said they would.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not reduce God's son to anything other than precisael;y what scripture says about him, as I have shown and can show from any trabslation.

Sure, MadCornish, sureeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made." (John 1: 1-3)

The JW slant: wellllllllllll .... in the beginning the Word was "a god" - and one of the "anythings made that hath been made" was HIM!

"Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." (John 2: 19)

Then you turn around and tell us that this wasn't a prophesy because of the hearers (as if that matters), then compound the error by claiming that it wasn't a prophesy because it didn't come true!

God's woprd consistentlydescribes his son as a created being the first creation of God

It never describes Him as such. To the contrary, it describes Him as pre-eminent.

as I have shown and can show from any trabslation.

Then by all means, do so - and I guarantee you that the passage will be easily explained.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
DanneJeRusse
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12/18/2014 10:29:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 10:14:59 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

It is not my promise, but God's so it is he you are really calling childish and petty.

Yes, you both are childish and petty. Exactly.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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12/18/2014 10:38:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 10:13:54 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/18/2014 9:25:15 AM, bulproof wrote:
Scripture, ie god, tells us that 1914 will be the end of the gentile times, it will be the end of all religions and all governments. God's word cannot be denied nor thwarted.

That is true, and try as they might to hang on to their poisition they wil not be allowed to, and Armagdeddon wilol remove them from their "stolen" positions permanently
And that all happened in 1914. Hoorah.
We are now beyond the end of teh Gentiole Times.
That's right because in 1914 all governments and all religions were destroyed during Armageddon.
False religion and hiuman Governements are being given the opportunity to give up thier positions opf their own accord, as teh Pharisses were in Jesus time on earth, but when they refuse, as they willl, God will remove them by foprce, through his sojn CHrist Jesus.
No they're not, they were all destroyed in 1914 as per god's word. I really don't know what planet you are on madman. All of god's word has been fulfilled in 1914.
That is God's promise and he will not5recind it.
Of course not even god can rescind what he has already achieved in the fulfillment of his word, otherwise he would be a liar. Like you.
Armageddon is only being delayed until God is satisfied all who will listen have had chance to.
Scripture declares categorically, hence god declares categorically that Armageddon happens in 1914 and by jesus 1914 it will happen. Only the heretics like you would even contemplate denying scripture, god's word.
God does not want to have to destroy any, but he will if forced to, by their unwillingness to behave in ways that are beneficial to all of creation.
In 1914 god destroyed all governments and all religions, how many people were destroyed in his pogrom?
Yes, that's right you can't answer that.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
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12/19/2014 7:37:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 10:38:20 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/18/2014 10:13:54 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/18/2014 9:25:15 AM, bulproof wrote:
Scripture, ie god, tells us that 1914 will be the end of the gentile times, it will be the end of all religions and all governments. God's word cannot be denied nor thwarted.

That is true, and try as they might to hang on to their poisition they wil not be allowed to, and Armagdeddon wilol remove them from their "stolen" positions permanently
And that all happened in 1914. Hoorah.
We are now beyond the end of teh Gentiole Times.
That's right because in 1914 all governments and all religions were destroyed during Armageddon.
False religion and hiuman Governements are being given the opportunity to give up thier positions opf their own accord, as teh Pharisses were in Jesus time on earth, but when they refuse, as they willl, God will remove them by foprce, through his sojn CHrist Jesus.
No they're not, they were all destroyed in 1914 as per god's word. I really don't know what planet you are on madman. All of god's word has been fulfilled in 1914.
That is God's promise and he will not5recind it.
Of course not even god can rescind what he has already achieved in the fulfillment of his word, otherwise he would be a liar. Like you.
Armageddon is only being delayed until God is satisfied all who will listen have had chance to.
Scripture declares categorically, hence god declares categorically that Armageddon happens in 1914 and by jesus 1914 it will happen. Only the heretics like you would even contemplate denying scripture, god's word.
God does not want to have to destroy any, but he will if forced to, by their unwillingness to behave in ways that are beneficial to all of creation.
In 1914 god destroyed all governments and all religions, how many people were destroyed in his pogrom?
Yes, that's right you can't answer that.

That's too stupid even to answer because you know the lies you are telling.
MadCornishBiker
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12/19/2014 7:40:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 10:29:06 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/18/2014 10:14:59 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

It is not my promise, but God's so it is he you are really calling childish and petty.


Yes, you both are childish and petty. Exactly.

I am sure he is pleased to hear you think that, shame that he is the one with all the power though who, if he wished to be childish and petty could simply wiep ut teh whole of creation.

As it is he will only wipe out those who do not care sufficiently for thier fellow man, or teh creation he ahs given us to enjoy.

After all, it is his to do with as he likes, but so far he has been extremely patient.

He won't be forever though, why should he, you wouldn't be in his position. Nothing like as patient and forgiving as he has been with us so far.
MadCornishBiker
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12/19/2014 8:23:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 10:18:17 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/18/2014 10:08:30 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/18/2014 9:52:13 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 12/18/2014 12:00:14 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:


Jehovah's Witnessis is a cult which reduces Jesus to a created being who is not God, and then makes you think that you can earn your way into paradise by serving the Watchtower. Watchtower is nothing but a scam for suckers, at best a social club and at worst a highway to Hell, where Christ repeatedly said the fire lasts forever and is never quenched and there will be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth and if the fouders of Watchtower have left this world rejecting Jesus Christ as God the Saviour, they are burning in the fire of Hell exactly as Christ said they would.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not reduce God's son to anything other than precisael;y what scripture says about him, as I have shown and can show from any trabslation.

Sure, MadCornish, sureeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made." (John 1: 1-3)

The JW slant: wellllllllllll .... in the beginning the Word was "a god" - and one of the "anythings made that hath been made" was HIM!

"Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." (John 2: 19)

Then you turn around and tell us that this wasn't a prophesy because of the hearers (as if that matters), then compound the error by claiming that it wasn't a prophesy because it didn't come true!

God's woprd consistentlydescribes his son as a created being the first creation of God

It never describes Him as such. To the contrary, it describes Him as pre-eminent.

Of course he is pre-eminnent he is God's fiorst-born, pre-eminence is his right.

as I have shown and can show from any trabslation.

Then by all means, do so - and I guarantee you that the passage will be easily explained.

You mean easily twisted to what you want it to mean. However there is only one explanation in reality, and wanting to make God 's son more than he was, which automatically makes God a liar, will do you no good.

Revelation 3:14
ASV(i) 14 And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God:

Since God's son is the beginning of creation by God he must be the first act of it, otherewsie he would be before the beginning of creation.

John 1:14
ASV(i) 14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.

Since there is absolutely no way that can be said to apply to Jesus it can only apply to God's son, and that means God's son was the only sole production, begetting, creation , of his father, and yes you know as well as I do that beget can simply mean produce.

http://www.merriam-webster.com...

Full Definition of BEGET

transitive verb
1: to procreate as the father : sire
2: to produce especially as an effect or outgrowth

" be"get"ter noun

I know you don;t like it, and don;'t dare to admit it, but that fits entirely wioth the true meaning of John 1:14, whereas your beliefs have to twist it.

John 1:18
ASV(i) 18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Colossians 1:13-18
ASV(i) 13 who delivered us out of the power of darkness, and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love; 14 in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins: 15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him; 17 and he is before all things, and in him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Who is the image of the invisible God, - a copy of

The firstborn of all creation - This too makes him a part of creation, the first part of it.

Again, a part of creation, the first part, not just pre-eminent but pre-emibnent because he is first-born. His right as such under law.

John 3:16
ASV(i) 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Again, only begotten son, the only direct production of his father.

1 John 4:9
ASV(i) 9 Herein was the love of God manifested in us, that God hath sent his only begotten Son into the world that we might live through him.

Notice again, not only is he here called the only begotten son, the sole direct production of his father, but he was sent, which cannot apply to Jesus, ony to his heavenly son.

1 John 3:8
ASV(i) 8 he that doeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. To this end was the Son of God manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

He was the son of God before he was made manifest before he came to earth.

There are in total 26 references to "the son of God", not one makes him the same as or equal to God, each one makes him out to be the son of God only.

http://www.merriam-webster.com...

Full Definition of SON

1a : a human male offspring especially of human beings
b : a male adopted child
c : a human male descendant

2 capitalized : the second person of the Trinity

3: a person closely associated with or deriving from a
formative agent
(as a nation school, or race)

However you cut it God's son was jsut taht his son, produced by him. That's why he is called God's son.

You really don;t like what scripture actually says do you?

I could never understand that because truth is the only thing that matter, the only thing which carries any lasting benefit..

Like I have said before.

You can fool humans, you can fool yourself, you cannot, no matter how you try, change what truth is, or fool God and Christ so you are utterly wasting your time trying.

Far better to find the truth and accept it, whether you like it or not. I have, why don't you?
bornofgod
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12/19/2014 8:34:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 12:00:14 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
One of my opponents on here has been trying to convince me, unsuccessfully, for some months now that all prophecy was fulfilled in teh 1st century, and that Christ's 1,000 year reign in fact lasted 40 years from 30 CE to 70 CE.

Is that possible?

Revelation 20
ASV(i) 1 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, the old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, 3 and cast him into the abyss, and shut it, and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years should be finished: after this he must be loosed for a little time. 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: over these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


That is Christ's 1,000 year reign or in PGA's view his 40 year reign. Has it all happened? Well has the remainder of this been fulfilled, even 1945 years later?

7 And when the thousand years are finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 and shall come forth to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up over the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down out of heaven, and devoured them.

I know PGA belkieves, wrongly, that teh "holy city" in this case was Jerusalem, but was it?



Even though I am not currently one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I long for that tiem, and look forward with hope and trust in my heart to being there. As a disfellowshipped person my chances are reduced, but not by 100% and I trust myself to the judgement of Christ with 100% faith in that judegement's fairness.

Sorry it was a long one, but it had to be said and I could not sleep until it had been posted. When thespirit moves you, you have to follow it, or you cannot rest. Such is the price of being one of God's servants, but it is a price I pay happily.

And so back to bed.

The 1,000 year reign of Christ will be completed next month. This is the symbolic phrase that is used to describe the time that Christ ( knowledge of God ) has been revealed through God's chosen saints. This knowledge contains the hidden secrets that has been kept from man since man was first placed in the flesh within a world he thought was real. Here's an example of what Paul said about this knowledge that God's saints would learn about;

Ephesians 1
1: Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are also faithful in Christ Jesus:
2: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
4: even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.
5: He destined us in love to be his sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
9: For he has made known to us in all wisdom and insight the mystery of his will, according to his purpose which he set forth in Christ
10: as a plan for the fulness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.
11: In him, according to the purpose of him who accomplishes all things according to the counsel of his will,
12: we who first hoped in Christ have been destined and appointed to live for the praise of his glory.
13: In him you also, who have heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and have believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
14: which is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

We saints, who testify to the knowledge of God ( Christ ) are killed for our testimonies of the Word of the Lord ( the Lord is not a saint named Jesus ). The time it took for God to use all His saints to testify to His knowledge has been around 2,000 years. This is proof that 1,000 years is like a day to the Lord. He uses most numbers in the prophecies as symbolic terms, not literal numbers.

Revelation 6
9: When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne;
10: they cried out with a loud voice, "O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?"
11: Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

As soon as God's last saint is killed next month, the teaching of Christ ( knowledge of God ) will end according to His plan.

God had to wait until the latest technology was built by His people to use as analogies to teach me exactly how He created us. Now that we have this knowledge revealed to us, His plan to destroy this world will go forth and be completed very soon.

When the earth begins to shake violently, this will be the last day of this age that man will observe of this world. The New Heaven and Earth will be our next experience in our new flesh.

God bless the one's who can hear the Truth,
Saint Brad
bornofgod
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12/19/2014 8:39:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 7:20:26 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/18/2014 12:00:14 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

Has every tear been wiped from people's eyes?

Is death no more?

Is there no more mourning?

No crying?

No pain?

Are all things new, fresh, changed for teh better?

To me, things are very much as they always have been with no significant improvement and in some ways worse.

I am sure those parents who recently lost thier children in that Pakistani school are mourning and crying, and their children are not coming home again.

No PGA, Christ's reign is most definitely not over, it hasn't been going for much more than 100 years let alone 1,000.

So, under Christ's reign, things don't get better, they get worse progressively.

Why do you ask a false prophet questions that he can't possibly answer?
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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12/19/2014 8:53:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/19/2014 8:23:11 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/18/2014 10:18:17 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/18/2014 10:08:30 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/18/2014 9:52:13 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 12/18/2014 12:00:14 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:


Jehovah's Witnessis is a cult which reduces Jesus to a created being who is not God, and then makes you think that you can earn your way into paradise by serving the Watchtower. Watchtower is nothing but a scam for suckers, at best a social club and at worst a highway to Hell, where Christ repeatedly said the fire lasts forever and is never quenched and there will be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth and if the fouders of Watchtower have left this world rejecting Jesus Christ as God the Saviour, they are burning in the fire of Hell exactly as Christ said they would.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not reduce God's son to anything other than precisael;y what scripture says about him, as I have shown and can show from any trabslation.

Sure, MadCornish, sureeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made." (John 1: 1-3)

The JW slant: wellllllllllll .... in the beginning the Word was "a god" - and one of the "anythings made that hath been made" was HIM!

"Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." (John 2: 19)

Then you turn around and tell us that this wasn't a prophesy because of the hearers (as if that matters), then compound the error by claiming that it wasn't a prophesy because it didn't come true!

God's woprd consistentlydescribes his son as a created being the first creation of God

It never describes Him as such. To the contrary, it describes Him as pre-eminent.

Of course he is pre-eminnent he is God's fiorst-born, pre-eminence is his right.

as I have shown and can show from any trabslation.

Then by all means, do so - and I guarantee you that the passage will be easily explained.

You mean easily twisted to what you want it to mean. However there is only one explanation in reality, and wanting to make God 's son more than he was, which automatically makes God a liar, will do you no good.

Revelation 3:14
ASV(i) 14 And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God:

Since God's son is the beginning of creation by God he must be the first act of it, otherewsie he would be before the beginning of creation.

Why, you know (or should know) that arche simply means origin or active cause, as in "The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom." Hence, the Son is the active cause/origin of all creation.

http://www.blueletterbible.org...

John 1:14
ASV(i) 14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.

Since there is absolutely no way that can be said to apply to Jesus

Certainly it applies to Jesus. "The Word became flesh".

http://www.merriam-webster.com...

Full Definition of BEGET

transitive verb
1: to procreate as the father : sire
2: to produce especially as an effect or outgrowth

" be"get"ter noun

I know you don;t like it, and don;'t dare to admit it, but that fits entirely wioth the true meaning of John 1:14, whereas your beliefs have to twist it.

Beget means the latter when in reference to inanimate objects.

John 1:18
ASV(i) 18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

That proves nothing for you.

Colossians 1:13-18
ASV(i) 13 who delivered us out of the power of darkness, and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love; 14 in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins: 15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him; 17 and he is before all things, and in him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Who is the image of the invisible God, - a copy of

Jesus Christ

The firstborn of all creation - This too makes him a part of creation, the first part of it.

No, it doesn't - and it doesn't mean that He was created first - or created at all.

Again, a part of creation, the first part, not just pre-eminent but pre-emibnent because he is first-born. His right as such under law.

John 3:16
ASV(i) 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Again, only begotten son, the only direct production of his father.

A direct reference to the virgin birth.


1 John 3:8
ASV(i) 8 he that doeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. To this end was the Son of God manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

He was the son of God before he was made manifest before he came to earth.

That's a ridiculous interpretation.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
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12/19/2014 10:05:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/19/2014 8:53:45 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/19/2014 8:23:11 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/18/2014 10:18:17 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/18/2014 10:08:30 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/18/2014 9:52:13 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 12/18/2014 12:00:14 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:


Jehovah's Witnessis is a cult which reduces Jesus to a created being who is not God, and then makes you think that you can earn your way into paradise by serving the Watchtower. Watchtower is nothing but a scam for suckers, at best a social club and at worst a highway to Hell, where Christ repeatedly said the fire lasts forever and is never quenched and there will be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth and if the fouders of Watchtower have left this world rejecting Jesus Christ as God the Saviour, they are burning in the fire of Hell exactly as Christ said they would.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not reduce God's son to anything other than precisael;y what scripture says about him, as I have shown and can show from any trabslation.

Sure, MadCornish, sureeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made." (John 1: 1-3)

The JW slant: wellllllllllll .... in the beginning the Word was "a god" - and one of the "anythings made that hath been made" was HIM!

"Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." (John 2: 19)

Then you turn around and tell us that this wasn't a prophesy because of the hearers (as if that matters), then compound the error by claiming that it wasn't a prophesy because it didn't come true!

God's woprd consistentlydescribes his son as a created being the first creation of God

It never describes Him as such. To the contrary, it describes Him as pre-eminent.

Of course he is pre-eminnent he is God's fiorst-born, pre-eminence is his right.

as I have shown and can show from any trabslation.

Then by all means, do so - and I guarantee you that the passage will be easily explained.

You mean easily twisted to what you want it to mean. However there is only one explanation in reality, and wanting to make God 's son more than he was, which automatically makes God a liar, will do you no good.

Revelation 3:14
ASV(i) 14 And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God:

Since God's son is the beginning of creation by God he must be the first act of it, otherewsie he would be before the beginning of creation.

Why, you know (or should know) that arche simply means origin or active cause, as in "The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom." Hence, the Son is the active cause/origin of all creation.

http://www.blueletterbible.org...

John 1:14
ASV(i) 14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.

Since there is absolutely no way that can be said to apply to Jesus

Certainly it applies to Jesus. "The Word became flesh".

http://www.merriam-webster.com...

Full Definition of BEGET

transitive verb
1: to procreate as the father : sire
2: to produce especially as an effect or outgrowth

" be"get"ter noun

I know you don;t like it, and don;'t dare to admit it, but that fits entirely wioth the true meaning of John 1:14, whereas your beliefs have to twist it.

Beget means the latter when in reference to inanimate objects.

John 1:18
ASV(i) 18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

That proves nothing for you.

Colossians 1:13-18
ASV(i) 13 who delivered us out of the power of darkness, and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love; 14 in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins: 15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him; 17 and he is before all things, and in him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Who is the image of the invisible God, - a copy of

Jesus Christ

The firstborn of all creation - This too makes him a part of creation, the first part of it.

No, it doesn't - and it doesn't mean that He was created first - or created at all.

Again, a part of creation, the first part, not just pre-eminent but pre-emibnent because he is first-born. His right as such under law.

John 3:16
ASV(i) 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Again, only begotten son, the only direct production of his father.

A direct reference to the virgin birth.


1 John 3:8
ASV(i) 8 he that doeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. To this end was the Son of God manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

He was the son of God before he was made manifest before he came to earth.

That's a ridiculous interpretation.

It's the only interpretation that fits scripture. Sorry you don;t like it, ubt there it is.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,560
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12/19/2014 10:21:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/19/2014 8:39:32 AM, bornofgod wrote:

Why do you ask a false prophet questions that he can't possibly answer?

I didn't ask you anything.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,560
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12/19/2014 10:24:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/19/2014 7:40:55 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/18/2014 10:29:06 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/18/2014 10:14:59 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

It is not my promise, but God's so it is he you are really calling childish and petty.


Yes, you both are childish and petty. Exactly.

I am sure he is pleased to hear you think that, shame that he is the one with all the power though who, if he wished to be childish and petty could simply wiep ut teh whole of creation.

You believe your god has power? LOL. He is as impotent as the pages his alleged existence is written upon.

As it is he will only wipe out those who do not care sufficiently for thier fellow man, or teh creation he ahs given us to enjoy.

After all, it is his to do with as he likes, but so far he has been extremely patient.

He won't be forever though, why should he, you wouldn't be in his position. Nothing like as patient and forgiving as he has been with us so far.

Ah yes, your obsession with your maniacal, psychotic god killing everyone.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/19/2014 10:56:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/19/2014 10:24:15 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/19/2014 7:40:55 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/18/2014 10:29:06 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/18/2014 10:14:59 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

It is not my promise, but God's so it is he you are really calling childish and petty.


Yes, you both are childish and petty. Exactly.

I am sure he is pleased to hear you think that, shame that he is the one with all the power though who, if he wished to be childish and petty could simply wiep ut teh whole of creation.

You believe your god has power? LOL. He is as impotent as the pages his alleged existence is written upon.

As it is he will only wipe out those who do not care sufficiently for thier fellow man, or teh creation he ahs given us to enjoy.

After all, it is his to do with as he likes, but so far he has been extremely patient.

He won't be forever though, why should he, you wouldn't be in his position. Nothing like as patient and forgiving as he has been with us so far.

Ah yes, your obsession with your maniacal, psychotic god killing everyone.

Up to you what you believe obviously.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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12/19/2014 1:50:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/19/2014 10:05:14 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/19/2014 8:53:45 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/19/2014 8:23:11 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/18/2014 10:18:17 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/18/2014 10:08:30 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/18/2014 9:52:13 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 12/18/2014 12:00:14 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:


Jehovah's Witnessis is a cult which reduces Jesus to a created being who is not God, and then makes you think that you can earn your way into paradise by serving the Watchtower. Watchtower is nothing but a scam for suckers, at best a social club and at worst a highway to Hell, where Christ repeatedly said the fire lasts forever and is never quenched and there will be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth and if the fouders of Watchtower have left this world rejecting Jesus Christ as God the Saviour, they are burning in the fire of Hell exactly as Christ said they would.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not reduce God's son to anything other than precisael;y what scripture says about him, as I have shown and can show from any trabslation.

Sure, MadCornish, sureeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made." (John 1: 1-3)

The JW slant: wellllllllllll .... in the beginning the Word was "a god" - and one of the "anythings made that hath been made" was HIM!

"Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." (John 2: 19)

Then you turn around and tell us that this wasn't a prophesy because of the hearers (as if that matters), then compound the error by claiming that it wasn't a prophesy because it didn't come true!

God's woprd consistentlydescribes his son as a created being the first creation of God

It never describes Him as such. To the contrary, it describes Him as pre-eminent.

Of course he is pre-eminnent he is God's fiorst-born, pre-eminence is his right.

as I have shown and can show from any trabslation.

Then by all means, do so - and I guarantee you that the passage will be easily explained.

You mean easily twisted to what you want it to mean. However there is only one explanation in reality, and wanting to make God 's son more than he was, which automatically makes God a liar, will do you no good.

Revelation 3:14
ASV(i) 14 And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God:

Since God's son is the beginning of creation by God he must be the first act of it, otherewsie he would be before the beginning of creation.

Why, you know (or should know) that arche simply means origin or active cause, as in "The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom." Hence, the Son is the active cause/origin of all creation.

http://www.blueletterbible.org...

John 1:14
ASV(i) 14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.

Since there is absolutely no way that can be said to apply to Jesus

Certainly it applies to Jesus. "The Word became flesh".

http://www.merriam-webster.com...

Full Definition of BEGET

transitive verb
1: to procreate as the father : sire
2: to produce especially as an effect or outgrowth

" be"get"ter noun

I know you don;t like it, and don;'t dare to admit it, but that fits entirely wioth the true meaning of John 1:14, whereas your beliefs have to twist it.

Beget means the latter when in reference to inanimate objects.

John 1:18
ASV(i) 18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

That proves nothing for you.

Colossians 1:13-18
ASV(i) 13 who delivered us out of the power of darkness, and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love; 14 in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins: 15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him; 17 and he is before all things, and in him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Who is the image of the invisible God, - a copy of

Jesus Christ

The firstborn of all creation - This too makes him a part of creation, the first part of it.

No, it doesn't - and it doesn't mean that He was created first - or created at all.

Again, a part of creation, the first part, not just pre-eminent but pre-emibnent because he is first-born. His right as such under law.

John 3:16
ASV(i) 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Again, only begotten son, the only direct production of his father.

A direct reference to the virgin birth.


1 John 3:8
ASV(i) 8 he that doeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. To this end was the Son of God manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

He was the son of God before he was made manifest before he came to earth.

That's a ridiculous interpretation.

It's the only interpretation that fits scripture. Sorry you don;t like it, ubt there it is.

Sorry doesn't cut it. Try answering the post.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."