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Biblical account of creation for Beastt

Gentorev
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12/18/2014 12:15:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
In the beginning God created the universe=heavens and earth, and the earth was formless and void and darkness was upon the face of the deep and God"s active force was moving on the face of the waters.

In the beginning, there was the "BIG BANG" which spatially separated the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity, which event spewed out liquid like (the waters) electromagnetic energy in the trillions of degrees, it was from the quantum of that liquid like electromagnetic energy (Waters) that the earth and all the heavenly bodies would be created, and although, all that the earth was created from, was already there in the beginning, the earth at that time had neither shape=formless nor mass=void, and no suns had yet come into existence to light up the darkness of the expanding space=bottomless pit, but there was momentum within that ever cooling cosmic cloud of wave particles which are the quantum of that liquid like electromagnetic energy, which waves have zero mass and no electric charge, yet they carry angular and linear momentum.

One would expect, that those wave particles which are the quantum of the liquid like (Waters) electromagnetic energy, would have continued to expand further and further away from each other in the expansion of the universal building material, but with the momentum of those waves they collided with each other in the creation of the first sub-atomic particles, which themselves were attracted to each other in the creation of the first basic atoms.

As the universal temperature dropped to some billions of degrees, the dark energy which was the expansion"s acceleration force, began to form into dark matter, hydrogen and helium, with trace quantities of lithium, beryllium, and boron. As the universe expanded and cooled, more hydrogen molecules were formed, and from these, after some thirty million years of attraction, came the formation of the first generation stars.

And God said, "Let there be light. "

Here is the first day, our little sun will not be formed until the fourth creative day.

Was the earth created before our sun, as is revealed in the Bible? And did life begin to evolve on earth before our sun burst into life? And could the complexity of life as seen on the earth today, have evolved over the comparatively short period of a mere 14 billion years?

The age of our present physical universe gives too little time for these theories of biogenesis to get the job done. The philosophical question that has not been answered in origin-of-life studies is this: How can a universe of mindless matter produce beings with intrinsic ends, self- replication capabilities, and "coded chemistry"? Here we are not dealing with biology, but an entirely different category of problem." [..wikipedia]

Our ancient ancestors expressed the belief that our scientists of today are just beginning to come to terms with, and that is, that following each "Big Bang" there comes the "Big Crunch," when this universe is condensed once again, into the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity from which it originated.

There is no way whatsoever that the world as it has evolved to today, did so in the short 14 billion years since the last BIG BANG.

Only when we come to the realisation that this generation of the universe, has evolved from a series of parental universal bodies that have preceded this one, will science begin to realise the time scale involved in the evolution of man from mindless matter.
Gentorev
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12/18/2014 12:31:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The New international Version, the Scofield Referrence Bible, and the Companion Bible, all note that the phase in Genesis 1: 2; The earth was formless and void (Having neither shape or mass) should be correctly translated, "The earth became without form and void." The Hebrew word "Hayah" translated "was," means "To become, occur, come to pass, Be." (Vines Complete Expository of Old and New Testament Words, 1985. "To Be.")

So here the bible reveals to us that there was a universe before ours that had become formless and void.

Another universe may have preceded ours, study finds. May 14th, 2006. Courtesy Penn State University and World Science staff.

Three physicists say they have done calculations suggesting that before the birth of our universe, which is expanding, there was an earlier universe that was shrinking. The results stem from a +theory that claims the fabric of space and time is made up of minuscule, indivisible bits, much as matter is. Scientists believe our cosmos began in a sort of explosion called the Big Bang, when everything that exists---which had previously been packed into one infinitely dense point---burst outward. The universe is still expanding according to this view, because it was born expanding.

According to some proposals, the Big Bang is a repeating cycle. Universes might expand, then shrink back to a point, then expand again. Thus the "Bang" would be really more like a bounce. The idea is appealing in some ways, but scientists have found it far from easy to test. Einstein"s Theory of Relativity, a key basis for the Big Bang theory, is silent on what happened before that event.

"General relativity can be used to describe the universe back to a point at which matter becomes so dense that it"s equations don"t hold up," said Abhay Ashtekar, director of the Gravitational Physics and Geometry at Penn State University in University Park, Penn.

To go further, physicists must use tools Einstein didn"t have, he added. Ashtekar and two post-doctoral researchers developed such tools through a combination of Quantum physics- the science of subatomic particles"and general relativity, which describes the large-scale structure of space and time. They found that before the Big Bang, there was a contracting universe. Other than the fact it was shrinking, they added, it was similar to ours in terms of the geometry of its space and time, or spacetime, as cosmologists call it since Einstein found the two are interwoven.

"In place of a classical Big Bang there is in fact a quantum bounce," said Ashtekar. "We were so surprised by the finding," he added, that the team repeated the calculations for months to include different possible values of some numbers representing the current universe. But the results kept pointing to a bounce. The findings appear in the current issue of the research journal Physical Review Letters.

While the general idea of another, pre-Big Bang universe isn"t new, Ashtekar said, this is the first mathematical study that systematically establishes its existence and deduces properties of its spacetime geometry. The notion that spacetime has a geometry involves the idea that it can be curved or flat. A "flat" spacetime is one in which geometry works as we normally expect; for example, parallel lines never meet. But Einstein found that material objects deform this flatness, introducing curvature.

To arrive at their pre-existing universe finding, Ashtekar"s group used loop quantum gravity, a theory that seeks to reconcile General relativity with quantum physics. These two seemingly fundamental theories are otherwise contradictory in some ways. Loop quantum gravity, which was pioneered at Ashtekar"s institute, proposes that spacetime has a discrete "atomic" structure, as opposed to being a continuous sheet, as Einstein, along with most us, assumed. In loop quantum gravity, space is thought of as woven from one-dimensional "threads." The continuum picture remains mostly valid as an approximation. But near the Big Bang, this fabric is violently torn so that it"s discrete, or quantum, nature becomes important. One outcome of this is that gravity becomes repulsive instead of attractive, Ashetkar argued; the result is the Big Bounce.

Paul Steinhardt of Princeton University, a cosmologist who has explored some related concepts, wrote in an email that the new research "Supports, in a general way, the idea that the Big Bang need not be the beginning of space and time." The universe "may have undergone one or more bangs in its past history," he added. Steinhardt and colleagues have also proposed a bounce of sorts, but it"s different. It could turn out that the two scenarios are equivalent at some deep level, but that"s not known, he added. Steinhardt"s scenario makes use of string theory, another attempt to reconcile General Relativity with quantum physics.

Some versions of string theory portray our visible universe as a three -dimensional space embedded in an invisible space having more dimensions. Our zone, called a braneworld-the word comes from its similarity to a sort of membrane-could periodically bounce into another, parallel braneworld. Such an event might look to us, stuck in a few dimensions as we are, as a Big Bang. "I don"t know if Ashetkar"s case translates into a bounce between braneworlds like we are describing," Steinhardt wrote. But by his estimate, this cataclysm won"t take place for another roughly 300 billion years"so there is hopefully plenty of time to answer the question.

Just as the Big Bang theory has been evolving over the years and is continuing to evolve as new data becomes available, these big Crunch theories that are just beginning to emerge are still in their infancy. I would rather a theory which states that there are many galactic clusters out there within the boundless cosmos, each cluster in its own position in Space-time, consisting of billions of Galaxies falling inward toward a Great Abyss, Black Hole, or Bottomless Pit, where it is torn to pieces molecule by molecule, atom by atom, sub-atomic particle by sub-atomic particle, and reconverted into the electromagnetic energy from which they were created and accelerated along the dark worm hole to speeds far, far in excess of the speed of light, where that liquid like Magnetic energy is spewed out in the trillions of degrees, somewhere far beyond the visible horizon of the eternal and boundless cosmos, where, from the cooling quantum of that electromagnetic energy a new universe is created, or rather, the old universe is resurrected, to which the light from its old position in space-time, would take billions upon billions of years to reach it.
Gentorev
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12/18/2014 12:35:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
According to the ancient cultures, we live in an eternal oscillating universe that expands outward and contracts back to its beginning in space time, a living universal being who is all that exists, and in who, all that is, exists. A living universal being who exists in the two states of visible matter and invisible energy.

"Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non being, and again from non being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence." ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.

The days and nights of Brahma are called Manvantara, or the cycle of manifestation, "The Great Day," which is a period of universal activity, that is preceded, and also followed by "Pralaya," a dark period, which to our finite minds seems as an eternity. "Manvantara," is a creative day as seen in the six days of creation in Genesis, "Pralaya," is the evening that proceeds the next creative day. The six periods of Creation and the seventh day of rest in which we now exist are referred to in the book of Genesis as the "GENERATIONS OF THE UNIVERSE."

The English word "Generation," is translated from the Hebrew "toledoth" which is used in the Old Testament in every instance as "births," or "descendants," such as "These are the generations of Adam," or "these are the generations of Abraham, and Genesis 2: 4; These are the generations of the Universe or the heavens and earth, etc.

And the "Great Day" in which the seven generations of the universe are eternally repeated, is the eternal cosmic period, or the eighth eternal day in which those who attain to perfection are allowed to enter, where they shall be surrounded by great light and they shall experience eternal peace, while those who do not attain to perfection are cast back into the refining fires of the seven physical cycles that perpetually revolve within the eighth eternal cosmic cycle.

Enoch the righteous wrote that God created an eighth day also, so that it should be the first after his works, and it is a day eternal with neither hours, days, weeks, months or years, for all time is stuck together in one eon, etc, etc, and all who enter into the generation of the Light beings, are able to visit all those worlds that still exist in space-time, but not in our three dimensional time.

A series of worlds following one upon the other,-- each world rising a step higher than the previous world, so that every later world brings to ripeness the seeds that were imbedded in the former, and itself then prepares the seed for the universe that will follow it.

This is the true resurrection in which all from the previous cycle of universal activity, who still have the judgmental war raging within them, are born again into the cycles of physical manifestation.
Gentorev
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12/18/2014 12:40:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
According to the best theory we have today as to the origin of this generation of the universe, it was some 14 billion years ago, that an immense explosion, known as the Big Bang, spewed out massive amounts of liquid like electromagnetic energy in the trillions and trillions of degrees, creating a rapidly expanding universe. Within moments of the expansion, the universal temperature had dropped to some billions of degrees, and the gathering vibrating waves, which were the quantum of that energy, collided in nuclear fusion reactions to form hydrogen and helium and when the universal temperature had cooled to a point where fusion stopped generating these basic elements, it left hydrogen as the dominant component from which the first generation stars were created, in which massive atomic reactors, the more heavier elements, such as carbon and oxygen, would be created.

Those first stars were anything up to 1000 times as massive as the Sun and millions of times as bright, but they burned for only a few million years before meeting a violent end, when they exploded out in a brilliant flash before collapsing in upon themselves creating the massive centrally condensed systems called "Black Holes," in which the greater percentage of their mass was trapped. The first creative day ended as evening descended and the lights of the universe went out and darkness covered the contracting space.

The second DAY [Period of universal activity] begins by bringing to ripeness the seeds that were imbedded in the former, and itself then prepares the seed for the universe that will follow it.

This scientific theory as to the creation of our solar system, which is apparently the best theory that we have today, states, that the process of the division of the waters [gaseous elements of our Solar nebula cloud] from the greater Galactic nebula cloud, began some five billion years ago, and that the whole process began with the division of the water above, from the waters below from which the entire Solar system was created. This took just a few hundred million years, about 400 million years in fact, and the creation of our entire solar system was completed by about 4.6 billion years ago

It was from the galactic nebular cloud, which was the residue of the heaver elements that were exploded off with the great super nova, which was the death of those earlier generation Stars, that galaxies would be formed in the second creative period=day, as the active universal forces brought about a division of the waters above from the waters below.

The accretion of the galactic nebula disk transferred angular momentum outward as it transferred mass inward, it was this that caused our solar nebula to begin to rotate and condense inward, bringing a division of the solar cloud, from the galactic cloud, or the waters above from the waters below.

Within the greater galactic nebular cloud, which was slowly beginning to revolve around the Black Hole that anchored it in space, a piece of the larger cloud complex started to collapse about five billion years ago. The cloud complex had already been "polluted" with dust grains from previous generations of stars, so it was possible to form the rocky terrestrial planets as gravity pulled the gas and dust together, forming a solar nebula. As the cloud=waters of the solar nebula collapsed, its slight rotation increased. This is because of the conservation of angular momentum.

Just like a dancer who spins faster as she pulls in her arms, the cloud began to spin as it collapsed. Eventually, the cloud grew hotter and denser in the centre, with a disk of gas and dust surrounding it that was hot in the centre but cool at the edges. As the disk got thinner and thinner, particles began to stick together and form clumps. Some clumps got bigger, as particles and small clumps stuck to them, eventually forming planets or moons.

Near the centre of the cloud, where planets like earth formed, only rocky material could stand the great heat. Icy matter settled in the outer regions of the disk along with rocky material, where the giant planets like Jupiter formed. As the cloud continued to fall in, the centre would get so hot that it would eventually become a star and blow away most of the gas and dust from which the planets of the solar system had been formed with a strong stellar wind.

By studying meteorites, which are thought to be left over from this early phase of the solar system, scientists have found that the solar system is about 4,600 billion years old! As the solar nebula collapsed, the gas and dust heated up through collisions among the particles. The solar nebula heated up to around 3000 K so everything was in a gaseous form. The solar nebula's composition was similar to the present-day Sun's composition: about 93% hydrogen, 6% helium, and about 1% silicates and iron, and the density of the gas and dust increased toward the core where the proto-sun was: [PROTO SUN.]. The inner, denser regions collapsed more quickly than the outer regions.

When the solar nebula stopped collapsing it began cooling, though the core that would later form the Sun remained hot. This meant that the outer parts of the solar nebula cooled off more than the inner parts closer to the hot proto-Sun. Only metal and rock materials could condense (solidify) at the high temperatures close to the proto-Sun. Therefore, the metal and rock materials could condense in all the places where the planets were forming. Volatile materials (like water, methane and ammonia) could only condense in the outer parts of the solar nebula.

Around Jupiter's distance from the proto-Sun the temperature was cool enough to freeze water (the so-called "snow line" or "frost line" ). Further out from the proto-Sun, ammonia and methane were able to condense. There was a significant amount of water in the solar nebula. Because the density of the solar nebula material increased inward, there was more water at Jupiter's distance than at the distances of Saturn, Uranus, or Neptune. The greater amount of water ice at Jupiter's distance from the proto-Sun helped it grow larger than the other planets. Although, there was more water closer to the proto-Sun than Jupiter, that water was too warm to condense.

Material with the highest freezing temperatures condensed to form the chondrules that were then incorporated in lower freezing temperature material. Any material that later became part of a planet underwent further heating and processing when the planet differentiated so the heavy metals sunk to the planet's core and lighter metals floated up to nearer the surface.

Because of its great compression, the core of the proto-Sun finally reached about 10 million Kelvin and after the planets of the solar system had been created, the hydrogen nuclei started fusing together to produce helium nuclei and a lot of energy. It was then that the Sun "turned on" and produced the strong winds called T-Tauri winds named after the prototype star in the constellation Taurus. These winds swept out the rest of the nebula that was not already incorporated into the planets. With most of the cocoon gas blown away, the new star itself becomes visible to the outside for the first time. This whole process took just a few hundred million years and was finished by about 4.6 billion years ago.

Did the fist organic molecules, the basis for all earthly life forms, begin to evolve on earth before the condensing solar nebula became our sun? According to the words recorded in the bible, it did.
Beastt
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12/18/2014 1:02:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Let's start here. You can shove those four posts right back from where ever you copied and pasted them. That is NOT the biblical account and you claimed you could support the Biblical account. So we'll start over because I'm not going to sit here and argue through you, with some silly creationist website which has re-written the Bible's account to try to make it sound credible. That's great stuff for keeping the crops growing in tire soil, but it's not going to fly here.

THIS is what the Bible claims. Either try to support it, or forfeit.

GENESIS ONE
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.


Now... explain how Earth could exist (1:1) before the stars (1:16) since the elements of which Earth is composed were fused in stars.

Explain how the Earth could have been covered in water, yet without an atmosphere. (Ask if you don't understand the problem there.)

Explain how water could be flowing on a planet with no substantial heat source, in space where the temperature is -454 degrees below zero, Fahrenheit.

And explain how plants could have survived before the sun existed, again leaving them in a cryogenic temperature of more than 400 degrees below zero.

And you get to use the account from the Bible, which you claimed you could defend, not some twisted, distorted and edited version copied from a creationist website.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Gentorev
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12/18/2014 1:38:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Beastt wrote..........Let's start here. You can shove those four posts right back from where ever you copied and pasted them.

Gentorev ................Those four post are taken from the book that I am in the process of writing, I can shove em down your throat, but that's as far as I will go.

Beastt wrote..........That is NOT the biblical account and you claimed you could support the Biblical account.

Gentorev.........Ahh but it does support the biblical account, you don't expect that the Son of Man from the very heights of time, in his descent to the beginning would inspire his chosen scribe to record the creation to the ancients of 5,000 years ago as I have interpreted it according to the accumulated data of today? No it had to be recorded as it was.

For the word of God can be likened
To a star that's being ever brightened
By the mind of man reaching ever higher
But those who deviate---they're liars

In God's word man's mind can grow
But those outside--they're like the snow
That settles on the desert sand
And they'll melt away before "I AM."

But here comes a couple of my grandsons, who are more important to me than some godless atheist, who is attempting to discredit the words of my Father and my God.

Catch you later, when time permits. And we'll start where I want to start; not where you want. This is my thread youngen, don't you know?
Beastt
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12/18/2014 2:00:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 1:38:05 AM, Gentorev wrote:
Beastt wrote..........Let's start here. You can shove those four posts right back from where ever you copied and pasted them.

Gentorev ................Those four post are taken from the book that I am in the process of writing, I can shove em down your throat, but that's as far as I will go.
They're your words, not the words of the Bible. "nuff said?

Beastt wrote..........That is NOT the biblical account and you claimed you could support the Biblical account.

Gentorev.........Ahh but it does support the biblical account, you don't expect that the Son of Man from the very heights of time, in his descent to the beginning would inspire his chosen scribe to record the creation to the ancients of 5,000 years ago as I have interpreted it according to the accumulated data of today? No it had to be recorded as it was.
No, it doesn't support the Biblical account at all. It replaces it. If you think you can support the biblical account, then the biblical account is what you have to support. I could re-write "Little Red Riding Hood" to a more credible version, but that wouldn't offer credibility to the original story. When you try to pull a bait and switch like this, it tells me several things...
- You know you can't support the biblical account
- You've spent a considerable amount of time re-writing it because it offers no credibility on it's own
- And this is why you told me to start a new thread, then ran off and started your own and insist we use yours, because I was honest and copied the Bible word-for-word, and you didn't use the biblical account at all.

For the word of God can be likened
To a star that's being ever brightened
By the mind of man reaching ever higher
But those who deviate---they're liars

One might suggest that pulling a bait-and-switch scam is something a "liar" might do.

In God's word man's mind can grow
But those outside--they're like the snow
That settles on the desert sand
And they'll melt away before "I AM."

Pre-pubescent poetry isn't going to save you.

But here comes a couple of my grandsons, who are more important to me than some godless atheist, who is attempting to discredit the words of my Father and my God.
Your God didn't write as single one of those words. I suggest you do a bit of research into the origins of the Bible before making such ridiculous statements in the future.

Catch you later, when time permits. And we'll start where I want to start; not where you want. This is my thread youngen, don't you know?
Then let's hop right over the thread YOU told ME to start, and then insisted we not use. Notice how I didn't re-write the biblical account the way you did?

That's because I can support my claims. Apparently, you can't. So it's tail between the legs and off to spend quality time with the grandsons. *wink* *wink
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
SNP1
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12/18/2014 2:13:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Even though I do not always agree with Beastt (I find his way of addressing theists to be a little lacking), I do have to agree with him. Rewriting the bible story to try and have it fit the science does nothing to give credibility to the bible, it only helps discredit you.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
Gentorev
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12/18/2014 7:23:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Beastt wrote..........Then let's hop right over the thread YOU told ME to start, and then insisted we not use. Notice how I didn't re-write the biblical account the way you did?

Gentorev............... Matey, you "COULDN'T WRITE" the biblical account of creation like I do, In fact, I believe that you would be hard pushed to write on any biblical subject as I would. But have no fear young fellow, I am here responding to your thread in order to reveal to all, that you do not understand the scriptures in reference to the creation, or any other part of the bible for that matter.

Beastt wrote...........That's because I can support my claims. Apparently, you can't. So it's tail between the legs and off to spend quality time with the grandsons. *wink* *wink

Gentorev............ Got some sh#t in your eye have you son. Perhaps you shouldn't spit into the wind, with all that stuff that comes out of your mouth. I can and will support the truth as revealed in scripture concerning the creation, and now we are going to see if you can support your ignorant and erroneous claims as to what you seem to think.

Beastt wrote............1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Gentorev...............If you"re happy with that, I"ll agree so far. Before the first light came into existence darkness covered the deep expanding space and nothing yet had been created, all that the waters=super hot liquid like electromagnetic energy would become, was in existence in the beginning, but nothing had constant form or mass

No light had yet been created and the principle activating force of the universe was moving on the surface of the deep= dark expanding space. The quantum of those waters, which were wave particles from which all things in existence have been created, had zero mass and no electric charge, yet they carried angular and linear momentum. This momentum is the creative activating force.
.
Beastt wrote...........3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Gentorev........... OK, but the bible states that this first light that came into existence in the creation of the universe, was the first creative day. Now I know that you wont like this, but our minor sun which is the centre of our small solar system, within this great Milky Way galaxy, according to the biblical account, does not come into existence until the fourth creative day.

Beastt wrote..........4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Gentorev......... OK, knowing that our solar system is not created until the fourth creative day, or the fourth period of universal activity, the first celestial body to light up the darkness of space, had to be the first generation stars and those first stars were anything up to 1000 times as massive as our Sun and millions of times as bright, but they burned for only a few million years before meeting a violent end, when they exploded out in a brilliant flash before collapsing in upon themselves creating the centrally condensed systems called "Black Holes," in which the greater percentage of their mass was trapped, leaving a massive nebular cloud of elements that were created in those gigantic nuclear reactors, which cloud=waters was anchored in space by the black hole around which our Milky Way galaxy would eventually begin to revolve.

The first creative day, or the first period of universal activity, ended as darkness descended and the lights of the first generation stars went out and darkness covered the "CONTRACTING" space. (The Big Crunch)

Now we know from science that there have been other universal bodies before this one in which we now exist and the biblical account fully supports this belief, when, in describing the six creative days, the bible states that they are the six generations of the universe and the English word "Generation" which is used in Genesis 2: 4; ," is translated from the Hebrew "toledoth" which is used in the Old Testament in every instance as "births," or "descendants," such as "These are the generations of Adam," or "these are the generations of Abraham, and Genesis 2: 4; These are the generations of the Universe or the heavens and earth, etc.

Beastt wrote............6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

Gentorev.......... Right-e-o, the second generation of the universe, had to bring to ripeness the seeds that were imbedded in the former, before itself then prepared the seed for the next generation of the universe that would follow it.

I have already explained to you how our solar system was created from the nebular cloud that would become the Milky Way Galaxy, which proves the bible to be correct, when it states that the sun was created after the earth and the planets which are called stars that we see in the closed firmament=heaven of our solar system.

I say closed firmament, because of the Oort cloud, which was named after Jan Oort and which is said to be a spherical cloud that envelops our solar system and, is made up of objects predominantly composed of ices such as water, ammonia, and Methane, and which extends to nearly a light year from our sun. The outer limit of the Oort cloud defines the cosmographical boundary of our solar system and the region of the suns gravitational dominance.

But that"s enough for me tonight, I"m well into my seventies and the few beers I had with the grandsons are making me a little weary, so I will continue to enlighten you as to the dividing of the waters above and the waters below the firmament of our solar system, tomorrow night, God willing.
dhardage
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12/18/2014 9:48:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 7:23:55 AM, Gentorev wrote:
Beastt wrote..........Then let's hop right over the thread YOU told ME to start, and then insisted we not use. Notice how I didn't re-write the biblical account the way you did?

Gentorev............... Matey, you "COULDN'T WRITE" the biblical account of creation like I do, In fact, I believe that you would be hard pushed to write on any biblical subject as I would. But have no fear young fellow, I am here responding to your thread in order to reveal to all, that you do not understand the scriptures in reference to the creation, or any other part of the bible for that matter.

Beastt wrote...........That's because I can support my claims. Apparently, you can't. So it's tail between the legs and off to spend quality time with the grandsons. *wink* *wink

Gentorev............ Got some sh#t in your eye have you son. Perhaps you shouldn't spit into the wind, with all that stuff that comes out of your mouth. I can and will support the truth as revealed in scripture concerning the creation, and now we are going to see if you can support your ignorant and erroneous claims as to what you seem to think.

Beastt wrote............1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Gentorev...............If you"re happy with that, I"ll agree so far. Before the first light came into existence darkness covered the deep expanding space and nothing yet had been created, all that the waters=super hot liquid like electromagnetic energy would become, was in existence in the beginning, but nothing had constant form or mass

No light had yet been created and the principle activating force of the universe was moving on the surface of the deep= dark expanding space. The quantum of those waters, which were wave particles from which all things in existence have been created, had zero mass and no electric charge, yet they carried angular and linear momentum. This momentum is the creative activating force.
.
Beastt wrote...........3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Gentorev........... OK, but the bible states that this first light that came into existence in the creation of the universe, was the first creative day. Now I know that you wont like this, but our minor sun which is the centre of our small solar system, within this great Milky Way galaxy, according to the biblical account, does not come into existence until the fourth creative day.

Beastt wrote..........4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Gentorev......... OK, knowing that our solar system is not created until the fourth creative day, or the fourth period of universal activity, the first celestial body to light up the darkness of space, had to be the first generation stars and those first stars were anything up to 1000 times as massive as our Sun and millions of times as bright, but they burned for only a few million years before meeting a violent end, when they exploded out in a brilliant flash before collapsing in upon themselves creating the centrally condensed systems called "Black Holes," in which the greater percentage of their mass was trapped, leaving a massive nebular cloud of elements that were created in those gigantic nuclear reactors, which cloud=waters was anchored in space by the black hole around which our Milky Way galaxy would eventually begin to revolve.

The first creative day, or the first period of universal activity, ended as darkness descended and the lights of the first generation stars went out and darkness covered the "CONTRACTING" space. (The Big Crunch)

Now we know from science that there have been other universal bodies before this one in which we now exist and the biblical account fully supports this belief, when, in describing the six creative days, the bible states that they are the six generations of the universe and the English word "Generation" which is used in Genesis 2: 4; ," is translated from the Hebrew "toledoth" which is used in the Old Testament in every instance as "births," or "descendants," such as "These are the generations of Adam," or "these are the generations of Abraham, and Genesis 2: 4; These are the generations of the Universe or the heavens and earth, etc.

Beastt wrote............6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

Gentorev.......... Right-e-o, the second generation of the universe, had to bring to ripeness the seeds that were imbedded in the former, before itself then prepared the seed for the next generation of the universe that would follow it.

I have already explained to you how our solar system was created from the nebular cloud that would become the Milky Way Galaxy, which proves the bible to be correct, when it states that the sun was created after the earth and the planets which are called stars that we see in the closed firmament=heaven of our solar system.

I say closed firmament, because of the Oort cloud, which was named after Jan Oort and which is said to be a spherical cloud that envelops our solar system and, is made up of objects predominantly composed of ices such as water, ammonia, and Methane, and which extends to nearly a light year from our sun. The outer limit of the Oort cloud defines the cosmographical boundary of our solar system and the region of the suns gravitational dominance.

But that"s enough for me tonight, I"m well into my seventies and the few beers I had with the grandsons are making me a little weary, so I will continue to enlighten you as to the dividing of the waters above and the waters below the firmament of our solar system, tomorrow night, God willing.

Good grief, how badly are willing to twist the words in your holy book to try and make it fit what we know now? It was written by people who had no idea of what was beyond their sight and no way to examine it. You must be an Olympic class mental gymnast to get through all the contortions you make when you start this stuff.
Beastt
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12/18/2014 11:42:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 7:23:55 AM, Gentorev wrote:

Gentorev............... Matey, you "COULDN'T WRITE" the biblical account of creation like I do, In fact, I believe that you would be hard pushed to write on any biblical subject as I would. But have no fear young fellow, I am here responding to your thread in order to reveal to all, that you do not understand the scriptures in reference to the creation, or any other part of the bible for that matter.
I couldn't write the account as you do because I'm not dishonest. You're not writing the Bible's account. You're re-writing your own account, using the knowledge gained through science, rather than the ignorance portrayed in the Bible.

Beastt wrote...........That's because I can support my claims. Apparently, you can't. So it's tail between the legs and off to spend quality time with the grandsons. *wink* *wink

Gentorev............ Got some sh#t in your eye have you son. Perhaps you shouldn't spit into the wind, with all that stuff that comes out of your mouth. I can and will support the truth as revealed in scripture concerning the creation, and now we are going to see if you can support your ignorant and erroneous claims as to what you seem to think.
You're not supporting what the Bible says. You're changing the entire account. Supporting an account, means supporting that the Bible says. It doesn't mean editing it, changing words, changing meanings and inserting whatever you damned well feel like inserting. It means supporting what the Bible says.

Beastt wrote............1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Gentorev...............If you"re happy with that, I"ll agree so far. Before the first light came into existence darkness covered the deep expanding space and nothing yet had been created, all that the waters=super hot liquid like electromagnetic energy would become, was in existence in the beginning, but nothing had constant form or mass
STRIKE ONE! The Bible says nothing about "super hot liquid", it talks about "water". It says "water" and it references this water multiple times. And you can't just decide that one reference means "super hot liquid", and another reference means whatever else you want it to mean. Do you think Genesis 1:9 is talking about dry land appearing as the "super hot liquid" runs down from the emerging hills, exposing the first dry land? Obviously, not. It's talking about water, and that's why it uses the word "water". Not only are you changing the words, you're changing the entire context. That's not only a failure to support the Bible, it's pure dishonesty on your part.

For what it's worth, this "super hot liquid" you keep referencing is not what you claim at all. It's not even liquid. The first matter that emerged from big-bang was quark/gluon plasma... it's a "plasma", not a liquid. And it's certainly not "water". In fact, one of its most unique properties is that it offers zero viscosity, which separates it from liquids and fluids, both in character and dynamics.

No light had yet been created and the principle activating force of the universe was moving on the surface of the deep= dark expanding space. The quantum of those waters, which were wave particles from which all things in existence have been created, had zero mass and no electric charge, yet they carried angular and linear momentum. This momentum is the creative activating force.
STRIKE TWO! The Bible never even hints that space is expanding. It says nothing about "wave particles". It says nothing about mass or charge. It says nothing about angular or linear momentum. And it names only God as the activating force.
.
Beastt wrote...........3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Gentorev........... OK, but the bible states that this first light that came into existence in the creation of the universe, was the first creative day. Now I know that you wont like this, but our minor sun which is the centre of our small solar system, within this great Milky Way galaxy, according to the biblical account, does not come into existence until the fourth creative day.
No, I'm quite fine with that. The Bible suggests light coming only from God himself. And it does claim that the sun wasn't created until the 4th day which creates a huge problem for anyone hoping to support the BIBLE's ACCOUNT, rather than their own story that they have written because they realize the Bible's story is pure fantasy, and scientific absurdity.

Beastt wrote..........4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Gentorev......... OK, knowing that our solar system is not created until the fourth creative day, or the fourth period of universal activity, the first celestial body to light up the darkness of space, had to be the first generation stars and those first stars were anything up to 1000 times as massive as our Sun and millions of times as bright, but they burned for only a few million years before meeting a violent end, when they exploded out in a brilliant flash before collapsing in upon themselves creating the centrally condensed systems called "Black Holes," in which the greater percentage of their mass was trapped, leaving a massive nebular cloud of elements that were created in those gigantic nuclear reactors, which cloud=waters was anchored in space by the black hole around which our Milky Way galaxy would eventually begin to revolve.
STRIKE THREE! You don't get to know anything about the creation of our solar system because the Bible says nothing about it. It knows nothing about Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Venus, Uranus, Pluto, Sedna, dozens of moons, the kuiper belt or anything else. It mentions the Earth, moon, sun and stars, that's all. The Bible says nothing about a "period of universal activity". It speaks of "days". And it very clearly and deliberately defines these "days" not once, not twice, not three, or four times... but SIX TIMES. It keeps pounding the meaning of "day" into the reader's head, yet you completely ignore it each and every time because you realize that's absurd. Well guess what? That IS absurd. But it's still what the Bible says, and insists upon. It defines "day" twice in Genesis 1:5, again in Genesis 1:8, in Genesis 1:13, in Genesis 1:19, in Genesis 1:23, and in Genesis 1:31. It defines them as literal 24-hour days! And you ignore it every single time, because it is so obviously absurd to anyone living today.
The Bible doesn't say anything about a celestial body providing light until Genesis 1:14 on the fourth day. So again, you're making things up to fulfill YOUR desire to have the account make sense. But it says nothing of the sort. It doesn't suggest the first generation of stars until Genesis 1:16 on the FOURTH "DAY". It says nothing about the mass of ANY stars. It says nothing about black holes, nuclear reactors, nuclear reactions, galaxies or any of the other crap you've tried to use to replace biblical rubbish.

Supporting the Biblical account means supporting the account as it is in the Bible. It's obvious you recognize that as something you cannot do. So you've completely re-written the account, replacing quasi-science (because you're still wrong), in place of the simpleton language of the creation account in Genesis. So far, all you've shown is that you cannot do what you claimed. You can't support the Genesis account because it's obviously rubbish.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
bulproof
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12/18/2014 11:46:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
This, demonstrates beyond any possibility of refutation, the christian tactic of using the HUMPTY DUMPTY defense.

"When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean " neither more nor less."
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Beastt
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12/18/2014 12:01:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Gentorev, name ANY fairytale and provide me the same unlimited liberty you've taken with the Genesis creation account, and I can re-write it into a plausible story just as you have.

Why do you think that shows anything other than the fact that unless it is re-written, leaving only the slightest hint of the original content, can anyone even suggest there to be any truth to be found in the Genesis creation account?

Little Red Riding Hood? No problem, but the "wolf" is a psychotic cannibalistic killer, Little Red Riding Hood is a reference to a young police detective and "grandma" is a reference to an aging security worker who isn't in her home in the context of the (re-written) story, but in a gated guard shack.

Does that support the story of "Little Red Riding Hood" or does it completely change it? It's the same kind of thing you've jokingly done here with the Genesis account. But the most astounding aspect of this is that you don't seem to understand what a plebeian and simpleton process you've applied. You actually seem to be proud of what you see as some form of intelligence here. Sorry, anyone can read a fallacious fairytale and warp it to fit some quasi-scientific application. It doesn't make you special. It does make you dishonest.

Want to try again by actually providing support for the account as it is written in the Bible? Or are you willing to admit that there is no way to validate that primitive, misleading, purely non-factual fallacy?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
annanicole
Posts: 19,785
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12/18/2014 12:48:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 1:02:38 AM, Beastt wrote:
Let's start here. You can shove those four posts right back from where ever you copied and pasted them. That is NOT the biblical account and you claimed you could support the Biblical account. So we'll start over because I'm not going to sit here and argue through you, with some silly creationist website which has re-written the Bible's account to try to make it sound credible. That's great stuff for keeping the crops growing in tire soil, but it's not going to fly here.

THIS is what the Bible claims. Either try to support it, or forfeit.

GENESIS ONE
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.


Now... explain how Earth could exist (1:1) before the stars (1:16) since the elements of which Earth is composed were fused in stars.

Explain how the Earth could have been covered in water, yet without an atmosphere. (Ask if you don't understand the problem there.)

Explain how water could be flowing on a planet with no substantial heat source, in space where the temperature is -454 degrees below zero, Fahrenheit.

And explain how plants could have survived before the sun existed, again leaving them in a cryogenic temperature of more than 400 degrees below zero.

There is no record that anyone ever believed that plant life could flourish without any sunlight. It's likely that your understanding of the passage is in error.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
dhardage
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12/18/2014 12:56:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 12:48:53 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/18/2014 1:02:38 AM, Beastt wrote:
Let's start here. You can shove those four posts right back from where ever you copied and pasted them. That is NOT the biblical account and you claimed you could support the Biblical account. So we'll start over because I'm not going to sit here and argue through you, with some silly creationist website which has re-written the Bible's account to try to make it sound credible. That's great stuff for keeping the crops growing in tire soil, but it's not going to fly here.

THIS is what the Bible claims. Either try to support it, or forfeit.

GENESIS ONE
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.


Now... explain how Earth could exist (1:1) before the stars (1:16) since the elements of which Earth is composed were fused in stars.

Explain how the Earth could have been covered in water, yet without an atmosphere. (Ask if you don't understand the problem there.)

Explain how water could be flowing on a planet with no substantial heat source, in space where the temperature is -454 degrees below zero, Fahrenheit.

And explain how plants could have survived before the sun existed, again leaving them in a cryogenic temperature of more than 400 degrees below zero.

There is no record that anyone ever believed that plant life could flourish without any sunlight. It's likely that your understanding of the passage is in error.

Good grief, how do you not understand that there was a day and a night before there was even a sun in this bit of fanciful fiction? How do you misunderstand that your God caused this in this order:
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

Only a rank apologist would try to change the meaning of the words as they are written and attempt to update the writings of an ancient and primitive people to resemble something that bears a passing resemblance to modern knowledge.
annanicole
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12/18/2014 1:35:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 12:56:13 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/18/2014 12:48:53 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/18/2014 1:02:38 AM, Beastt wrote:
Let's start here. You can shove those four posts right back from where ever you copied and pasted them. That is NOT the biblical account and you claimed you could support the Biblical account. So we'll start over because I'm not going to sit here and argue through you, with some silly creationist website which has re-written the Bible's account to try to make it sound credible. That's great stuff for keeping the crops growing in tire soil, but it's not going to fly here.

THIS is what the Bible claims. Either try to support it, or forfeit.

GENESIS ONE
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.


Now... explain how Earth could exist (1:1) before the stars (1:16) since the elements of which Earth is composed were fused in stars.

Explain how the Earth could have been covered in water, yet without an atmosphere. (Ask if you don't understand the problem there.)

Explain how water could be flowing on a planet with no substantial heat source, in space where the temperature is -454 degrees below zero, Fahrenheit.

And explain how plants could have survived before the sun existed, again leaving them in a cryogenic temperature of more than 400 degrees below zero.

There is no record that anyone ever believed that plant life could flourish without any sunlight. It's likely that your understanding of the passage is in error.

Good grief, how do you not understand that there was a day and a night before there was even a sun in this bit of fanciful fiction? How do you misunderstand that your God caused this in this order:
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

Only a rank apologist would try to change the meaning of the words as they are written and attempt to update the writings of an ancient and primitive people to resemble something that bears a passing resemblance to modern knowledge.

This was the statement:

"There is no record that anyone ever believed that plant life could flourish without any sunlight."

Hell's bells, it's easy to disprove: just cite someone throughout history who thought such a thing. If there isn't anyone, I'd say it's sort-of a long shot to think that the Bible teaches what no one ever believed.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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12/18/2014 1:38:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 1:35:55 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/18/2014 12:56:13 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/18/2014 12:48:53 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/18/2014 1:02:38 AM, Beastt wrote:
Let's start here. You can shove those four posts right back from where ever you copied and pasted them. That is NOT the biblical account and you claimed you could support the Biblical account. So we'll start over because I'm not going to sit here and argue through you, with some silly creationist website which has re-written the Bible's account to try to make it sound credible. That's great stuff for keeping the crops growing in tire soil, but it's not going to fly here.

THIS is what the Bible claims. Either try to support it, or forfeit.

GENESIS ONE
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.


Now... explain how Earth could exist (1:1) before the stars (1:16) since the elements of which Earth is composed were fused in stars.

Explain how the Earth could have been covered in water, yet without an atmosphere. (Ask if you don't understand the problem there.)

Explain how water could be flowing on a planet with no substantial heat source, in space where the temperature is -454 degrees below zero, Fahrenheit.

And explain how plants could have survived before the sun existed, again leaving them in a cryogenic temperature of more than 400 degrees below zero.

There is no record that anyone ever believed that plant life could flourish without any sunlight. It's likely that your understanding of the passage is in error.

Good grief, how do you not understand that there was a day and a night before there was even a sun in this bit of fanciful fiction? How do you misunderstand that your God caused this in this order:
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

Only a rank apologist would try to change the meaning of the words as they are written and attempt to update the writings of an ancient and primitive people to resemble something that bears a passing resemblance to modern knowledge.

This was the statement:

"There is no record that anyone ever believed that plant life could flourish without any sunlight."

Hell's bells, it's easy to disprove: just cite someone throughout history who thought such a thing. If there isn't anyone, I'd say it's sort-of a long shot to think that the Bible teaches what no one ever believed.

Boy, you are dense. If you believe the biblical creation story literally then you believe that plants were created and were flourishing before the sun was created. Doesn't take a road map.
annanicole
Posts: 19,785
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12/18/2014 1:41:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 1:38:54 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/18/2014 1:35:55 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/18/2014 12:56:13 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/18/2014 12:48:53 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/18/2014 1:02:38 AM, Beastt wrote:
Let's start here. You can shove those four posts right back from where ever you copied and pasted them. That is NOT the biblical account and you claimed you could support the Biblical account. So we'll start over because I'm not going to sit here and argue through you, with some silly creationist website which has re-written the Bible's account to try to make it sound credible. That's great stuff for keeping the crops growing in tire soil, but it's not going to fly here.

THIS is what the Bible claims. Either try to support it, or forfeit.

GENESIS ONE
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.


Now... explain how Earth could exist (1:1) before the stars (1:16) since the elements of which Earth is composed were fused in stars.

Explain how the Earth could have been covered in water, yet without an atmosphere. (Ask if you don't understand the problem there.)

Explain how water could be flowing on a planet with no substantial heat source, in space where the temperature is -454 degrees below zero, Fahrenheit.

And explain how plants could have survived before the sun existed, again leaving them in a cryogenic temperature of more than 400 degrees below zero.

There is no record that anyone ever believed that plant life could flourish without any sunlight. It's likely that your understanding of the passage is in error.

Good grief, how do you not understand that there was a day and a night before there was even a sun in this bit of fanciful fiction? How do you misunderstand that your God caused this in this order:
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

Only a rank apologist would try to change the meaning of the words as they are written and attempt to update the writings of an ancient and primitive people to resemble something that bears a passing resemblance to modern knowledge.

This was the statement:

"There is no record that anyone ever believed that plant life could flourish without any sunlight."

Hell's bells, it's easy to disprove: just cite someone throughout history who thought such a thing. If there isn't anyone, I'd say it's sort-of a long shot to think that the Bible teaches what no one ever believed.

Boy, you are dense. If you believe the biblical creation story literally then you believe that plants were created and were flourishing before the sun was created. Doesn't take a road map.

I'll take that as confirming that you can't find a single person throughout history who ever believed that plants could thrive in the absence of sunshine or light, yet by dingies you think the Bible teaches it anyway!

Oh, well.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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12/18/2014 1:43:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 1:41:23 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/18/2014 1:38:54 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/18/2014 1:35:55 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/18/2014 12:56:13 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/18/2014 12:48:53 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/18/2014 1:02:38 AM, Beastt wrote:
Let's start here. You can shove those four posts right back from where ever you copied and pasted them. That is NOT the biblical account and you claimed you could support the Biblical account. So we'll start over because I'm not going to sit here and argue through you, with some silly creationist website which has re-written the Bible's account to try to make it sound credible. That's great stuff for keeping the crops growing in tire soil, but it's not going to fly here.

THIS is what the Bible claims. Either try to support it, or forfeit.

GENESIS ONE
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.


Now... explain how Earth could exist (1:1) before the stars (1:16) since the elements of which Earth is composed were fused in stars.

Explain how the Earth could have been covered in water, yet without an atmosphere. (Ask if you don't understand the problem there.)

Explain how water could be flowing on a planet with no substantial heat source, in space where the temperature is -454 degrees below zero, Fahrenheit.

And explain how plants could have survived before the sun existed, again leaving them in a cryogenic temperature of more than 400 degrees below zero.

There is no record that anyone ever believed that plant life could flourish without any sunlight. It's likely that your understanding of the passage is in error.

Good grief, how do you not understand that there was a day and a night before there was even a sun in this bit of fanciful fiction? How do you misunderstand that your God caused this in this order:
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

Only a rank apologist would try to change the meaning of the words as they are written and attempt to update the writings of an ancient and primitive people to resemble something that bears a passing resemblance to modern knowledge.

This was the statement:

"There is no record that anyone ever believed that plant life could flourish without any sunlight."

Hell's bells, it's easy to disprove: just cite someone throughout history who thought such a thing. If there isn't anyone, I'd say it's sort-of a long shot to think that the Bible teaches what no one ever believed.

Boy, you are dense. If you believe the biblical creation story literally then you believe that plants were created and were flourishing before the sun was created. Doesn't take a road map.

I'll take that as confirming that you can't find a single person throughout history who ever believed that plants could thrive in the absence of sunshine or light, yet by dingies you think the Bible teaches it anyway!

Oh, well.

And again the Christian propensity for ignoring those parts of your holy book you can't justify. Good day to you.
Gentorev
Posts: 2,907
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12/19/2014 12:46:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
OK, Let"s look at what we have here. The godless atheists are beginning to gather, "as they do," when every their godless belief is threatened. They"re like a mob of screeching seagulls, who fly in and crap all over the post that frightens them.

All believers who frequent the religious forums, know that these seagulls attempt to derail the topic by engaging the believer in a multitude of non related rubbish or just their usual derogatory and ignorant attacks on the believer and their beliefs and their God. But that is not going to happen here.

So let"s recap on what has been explained so far. (1) it has been shown that the ancient religions, which includes the Hebrew, all believed in multiple universes that follow one upon the other, something that the screeching seagulls cannot deny, and something that our scientists of today are just beginning to come to terms with.
.
Apart from the fact the bible states that God is calling all creation back to himself, after which, he will create for us a new heavens and a new earth=universe; revealing that the bible teaches that another universe is to follow this one. The godless seagulls might not believe the bible, but they cannot deny that the bible speaks of multiple universal bodies, that follow one upon the other.

Having said, that the ancient religions believed in a series of universes following one upon the other, I suppose that I should verify that, not that it will stop the rantings and ravings of the terrified godless seagulls, whose godless religion of disbelief is threatened by the truths as revealed in scripture.

"Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non being, and again from non being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence." ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.

The days and nights of Brahma are called Manvantara, or the cycle of manifestation, "The Great Day," which is a period of universal activity, that is preceded, and also followed by "Pralaya," a dark period, which to our finite minds seems as an eternity. "Manvantara," is a creative day as seen in the six days of creation in Genesis, "Pralaya," is the evening that proceeds the next creative day. The six periods of Creation , much like the six spokes in the Buddhists eternal wheel, which represents the six forms of existence, are referred to in the book of Genesis as the "GENERATIONS OF THE UNIVERSE."

The English word "Generation," which is used in Gen 2: 4; is translated from the Hebrew "toledoth" which is used in the Old Testament in every instance as "births," or "descendants," such as "These are the generations of Adam," or "these are the generations of Abraham, and Genesis 2: 4; These are the generations of the Universe or the heavens and earth, etc.

And so again, although the atheists who haunt these religious forums may not believe in the eternal oscillating universe, they cannot deny that the bible refers to the six days of creation as six generations of the universe. Nor can they deny that the bible states that our sun, which is the centre of our solar system was not created until the fourth generation of the universe and only after the planets of our system had been created.

According to our scientific friends, once the core of the proto-Sun finally reached about 10 million Kelvin and after the planets of the solar system had been created, the hydrogen nuclei started fusing together to produce helium nuclei and a lot of energy. It was then that the Sun "turned on" and produced the strong winds called T-Tauri winds named after the prototype star in the constellation Taurus. These winds swept out the rest of the nebula that was not already incorporated into the planets. After the sun was created on the fourth day, no more terrestrial planets could be created, in our closed solar system, as the T-Tauri winds swept away the building materials from which they were created.

Now let us take a look at what the godless Beastt erroneously "THINKS" that the book of Genesis records.

Beastt wrote.......... - Earth existed before stars
- Earth was covered in liquid water before it had an atmosphere
- That liquid water was flowing while Earth was in a cryogenic state
- and that plants were growing on Earth, without light, and in temperatures of less than 400-degrees below zero.

Gentorev........ "Earth existed before stars."..........What a load of crap, but what can one expect from a godless atheist who has proven his total ignorance to the word of God, which he attacks.

Come on Beastt, haven"t you read that it was on the first creative day, or rather, the first generation of the universe that God said, "Let there be light." If you "THINK" that the light that was created on the first day were not first generation stars, then please explain to us all what the light that lit up the darkness of the first creative day could have been.

I would expect that an answer from Beastt, such as an "Every-Ready Torch, " could be a possibility as he is known to resort to childish ridicule or abuse when he has no answer.

The "LIGHTS" that were placed in the closed firmament=heaven of our solar system, which is surrounded by a spherical cloud of icy comets (The waters above the firmament) are not referred to as STARS as is so erroneously "THOUGHT" by Beastt, who hasn"t got a clue when it comes to that which is recorded in the bible. The lights here, are the other planets of our solar system, which would reflect the light of our sun when it finally "TURNED ON" after the planets were created.

Psalms 148: 4; Praise him you heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heaven (ABOVE the heaven, not in the heaven, but above) Let them praise the name of the Lord: for he commanded and they were created. He hath established them forever and ever: He hath made a decree which shall not pass.

Beastt wrote.......... Earth was covered in liquid water before it had an atmosphere
That liquid water was flowing while Earth was in a cryogenic state.

Gentorev.......... If you think you can discredit the biblical account of creation with your made up unsupported fairy tale rubbish, then you"ve got another think coming mate. And where did you pull that one from Beastty? Out of your hat I suppose, it was certainly not from the bible which is supported by scientific data, that"s for sure. Only a person who is ignorant to the scientific theory of the creation of our Solar System, would utter such rubbish.

So let me explain the best scientific theory concerning the creation of our system; anything in brackets will be my interpolations.

It was from the galactic nebular cloud, which was the residue of the heaver elements that were exploded off with the great super nova, which was the death of those earlier generation Stars, (THAT WERE CREATED ON THE FIRST PERIOD OF UNIVERSAL ACTIVITY) that galaxies would be formed in the second creative period=day, as the active universal forces brought about a division of the waters above from the waters below.

The accretion of the galactic nebula disk transferred angular momentum outward as it transferred mass inward, it was this that caused our solar nebula to begin to rotate and condense inward, bringing a division of the solar cloud, from the galactic cloud.
Gentorev
Posts: 2,907
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12/19/2014 12:54:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Continued from post #20.

Within the greater galactic nebular cloud, which was slowly beginning to revolve around the Black Hole that anchored it in space, (centrally condensed systems called "Black Holes," are that, into which the greater percentage of the mass of the stars that super-noved, was trapped.) a piece of the larger cloud complex started to collapse about five billion years ago.

The cloud complex had already been "polluted" with dust grains from previous generation stars, so it was possible to form the rocky terrestrial planets as gravity pulled the gas and dust together, forming a solar nebula. As the cloud=waters of the solar nebula collapsed, its slight rotation increased. This is because of the conservation of angular momentum.

Just like a dancer who spins faster as she pulls in her arms, the cloud began to spin as it collapsed. Eventually, the cloud grew hotter and denser in the centre, with a disk of gas and dust surrounding it that was hot in the centre but cool at the edges. As the disk got thinner and thinner, particles began to stick together and form clumps. Some clumps got bigger, as particles and small clumps stuck to them, eventually forming planets or moons.

Near the centre of the cloud, where planets like earth formed, only rocky material could stand the great heat. Icy matter settled in the outer regions of the disk along with rocky material, where the giant planets like Jupiter formed. As the cloud continued to fall in, the centre would get so hot that it would eventually become a star and blow away most of the gas and dust from which the planets of the solar system had been formed with a strong stellar wind. "

Did you see that Beastt? "Near the centre of the super hot condensing cloud, where planets like earth formed, only rocky material could stand the great heat." I"ll let you explain to your godless mates how you came to "THINK" that liquid water was flowing while Earth was in a cryogenic state.

See you later when time permits.
bulproof
Posts: 25,221
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12/19/2014 1:42:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 1:35:55 PM, annanicole wrote:
Hell's bells, it's easy to disprove: just cite someone throughout history who thought such a thing. If there isn't anyone, I'd say it's sort-of a long shot to think that the Bible teaches what no one ever believed.
So the bible is not the word of god or you and everyone else don't believe god.
Which is it?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,221
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12/19/2014 1:45:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/19/2014 12:46:13 AM, Gentorev wrote:
Gentorev........ "Earth existed before stars."..........What a load of crap

At last some honesty, just too bad that is what the bible claims, thus making the bibles claim a load of crap.

That's what Beastt has been telling you.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Gentorev
Posts: 2,907
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12/19/2014 3:10:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/19/2014 1:45:51 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/19/2014 12:46:13 AM, Gentorev wrote:
Gentorev........ "Earth existed before stars."..........What a load of crap

At last some honesty, just too bad that is what the bible claims, thus making the bibles claim a load of crap.

That's what Beastt has been telling you.

We all know that your little godless mate said that the earth was created before the stars, which is a load of crap as is just about everything that comes from the mouths of you godless mob. The first stars were created on the first day,when God said "Let there be light," the earth wasn't created until the fourth day

See ya later muggins.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,208
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12/19/2014 3:26:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/19/2014 3:10:27 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 12/19/2014 1:45:51 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/19/2014 12:46:13 AM, Gentorev wrote:
Gentorev........ "Earth existed before stars."..........What a load of crap

At last some honesty, just too bad that is what the bible claims, thus making the bibles claim a load of crap.

That's what Beastt has been telling you.

We all know that your little godless mate said that the earth was created before the stars, which is a load of crap as is just about everything that comes from the mouths of you godless mob. The first stars were created on the first day,when God said "Let there be light," the earth wasn't created until the fourth day

See ya later muggins.

That is simply not true. According to the Bible, the stars were created after the earth. Gen. 1:14:
"And God said, "Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lights"the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning"the fourth day."

The third day according to the Bible saw the formation of the Earth, along with its vegetation:
" God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.

11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning"the third day

Previous to that was the strange and nebulous wording of how water, land, earth, and the 'heavens' were snapped into existence and seperated from eachother. The exact interpretation of that is subject to debate, but the nature of stars and their purpose along with the sun and moon clearly came AFTER earth's creation.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Gentorev
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12/19/2014 3:45:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/19/2014 3:26:21 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 12/19/2014 3:10:27 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 12/19/2014 1:45:51 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/19/2014 12:46:13 AM, Gentorev wrote:
Gentorev........ "Earth existed before stars."..........What a load of crap

At last some honesty, just too bad that is what the bible claims, thus making the bibles claim a load of crap.

That's what Beastt has been telling you.

We all know that your little godless mate said that the earth was created before the stars, which is a load of crap as is just about everything that comes from the mouths of you godless mob. The first stars were created on the first day,when God said "Let there be light," the earth wasn't created until the fourth day

See ya later muggins.

That is simply not true. According to the Bible, the stars were created after the earth. Gen. 1:14:
"And God said, "Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lights"the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning"the fourth day."

The third day according to the Bible saw the formation of the Earth, along with its vegetation:
" God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.

11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning"the third day


Previous to that was the strange and nebulous wording of how water, land, earth, and the 'heavens' were snapped into existence and seperated from eachother. The exact interpretation of that is subject to debate, but the nature of stars and their purpose along with the sun and moon clearly came AFTER earth's creation.

Go back and read posts 20 and 21 then come back when you understand.
FaustianJustice
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12/19/2014 3:58:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/19/2014 3:45:50 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 12/19/2014 3:26:21 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 12/19/2014 3:10:27 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 12/19/2014 1:45:51 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/19/2014 12:46:13 AM, Gentorev wrote:
Gentorev........ "Earth existed before stars."..........What a load of crap

At last some honesty, just too bad that is what the bible claims, thus making the bibles claim a load of crap.

That's what Beastt has been telling you.

We all know that your little godless mate said that the earth was created before the stars, which is a load of crap as is just about everything that comes from the mouths of you godless mob. The first stars were created on the first day,when God said "Let there be light," the earth wasn't created until the fourth day

See ya later muggins.

That is simply not true. According to the Bible, the stars were created after the earth. Gen. 1:14:
"And God said, "Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lights"the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning"the fourth day."

The third day according to the Bible saw the formation of the Earth, along with its vegetation:
" God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.

11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning"the third day


Previous to that was the strange and nebulous wording of how water, land, earth, and the 'heavens' were snapped into existence and seperated from eachother. The exact interpretation of that is subject to debate, but the nature of stars and their purpose along with the sun and moon clearly came AFTER earth's creation.

Go back and read posts 20 and 21 then come back when you understand.

I understand that you had to use as many resources you could aside from the Bible to subjectively interpret what is written in the Bible from what we know now of the universe. It doesn't bolster your case if you have to rely on other religions to explain your own. You proceeded to tell Beastt he was using fairy tale rubbish by relating what factually must be occuring in Genesis.

The relation of the Biblical account should speak for itself, its supposed to be the infallible word of God. How many other ancient religions and treatises should we look to to interpret the Flood? Jesus' ascencion? Mosaic law? Should I skim the Qu'aran for insight on the prophetic nature of Jesus? Do Vishnuu and The Holy Ghost trade ideas about what to create next?
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
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Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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12/19/2014 4:45:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 12:48:53 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/18/2014 1:02:38 AM, Beastt wrote:
Let's start here. You can shove those four posts right back from where ever you copied and pasted them. That is NOT the biblical account and you claimed you could support the Biblical account. So we'll start over because I'm not going to sit here and argue through you, with some silly creationist website which has re-written the Bible's account to try to make it sound credible. That's great stuff for keeping the crops growing in tire soil, but it's not going to fly here.

THIS is what the Bible claims. Either try to support it, or forfeit.

GENESIS ONE
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.


Now... explain how Earth could exist (1:1) before the stars (1:16) since the elements of which Earth is composed were fused in stars.

Explain how the Earth could have been covered in water, yet without an atmosphere. (Ask if you don't understand the problem there.)

Explain how water could be flowing on a planet with no substantial heat source, in space where the temperature is -454 degrees below zero, Fahrenheit.

And explain how plants could have survived before the sun existed, again leaving them in a cryogenic temperature of more than 400 degrees below zero.

There is no record that anyone ever believed that plant life could flourish without any sunlight. It's likely that your understanding of the passage is in error.

Seriously Anna, stop trolling. You've been through this over, and over, and over. The lack of sunlight is NOT the problem. It hasn't been the problem any of the times you've tried this same silly defense. The TEMPERATURE of the planet is the problem. And I'm not interpreting anything other than what the Bible says very plainly, and very clearly...
- Earth; Day-1
- Plants, Day-3
- Sun, Day-4

Without the sun, the temperature of Earth would be about the same as the mean temperature of space which is -454 degrees Fahrenheit. Do you know of any grasses, herbs or fruit trees which can survive in temperatures only a few degrees above absolute zero? Do you have any clue how cold that is? As for your suggestion that because people don't show a belief that plants can grow without sunlight, it must be a misinterpretation... read the account yourself. And then stop to actually think for a moment; do you believe plants can grow in cryogenic temperatures without light? Do you? Do you believe there must be some kind of contortion you can run the account through to try to cause it to make sense? What makes you think people haven't been practicing the same dishonesty you're showing... suggesting that it must mean something else, because so many people believe it anyway.

If you can know plants can't grow without light and HEAT, and you can still believe the Genesis account - despite it's clear assertion contrary to what you know - what makes you think others aren't applying the very same disingenuous evasion you're applying?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
annanicole
Posts: 19,785
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12/19/2014 9:01:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/19/2014 4:45:07 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 12/18/2014 12:48:53 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/18/2014 1:02:38 AM, Beastt wrote:
Let's start here. You can shove those four posts right back from where ever you copied and pasted them. That is NOT the biblical account and you claimed you could support the Biblical account. So we'll start over because I'm not going to sit here and argue through you, with some silly creationist website which has re-written the Bible's account to try to make it sound credible. That's great stuff for keeping the crops growing in tire soil, but it's not going to fly here.

THIS is what the Bible claims. Either try to support it, or forfeit.

GENESIS ONE
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.


Now... explain how Earth could exist (1:1) before the stars (1:16) since the elements of which Earth is composed were fused in stars.

Explain how the Earth could have been covered in water, yet without an atmosphere. (Ask if you don't understand the problem there.)

Explain how water could be flowing on a planet with no substantial heat source, in space where the temperature is -454 degrees below zero, Fahrenheit.

And explain how plants could have survived before the sun existed, again leaving them in a cryogenic temperature of more than 400 degrees below zero.

There is no record that anyone ever believed that plant life could flourish without any sunlight. It's likely that your understanding of the passage is in error.

Seriously Anna, stop trolling. You've been through this over, and over, and over. The lack of sunlight is NOT the problem. It hasn't been the problem any of the times you've tried this same silly defense. The TEMPERATURE of the planet is the problem.

Is your position that plants will grow, flourish, and reproduce in total darkness without any sunlight if the temperature is suitable?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Gentorev
Posts: 2,907
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12/20/2014 8:20:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Beastt wrote...........This account of creation can't rationally be looked upon as anything more than comedy in light of what we know today. But just as Christians fought heliocentrism as "heresy" for some 200-years, and then started twisting the Bible to claim that it always presented the truth, they're doing the same thing today with Genesis - trying to make this fallacious and atrociously false account match scientific findings.

Gentorev..........Nah matey, you got it wrong, we are not trying to make genesis match scientific findings, the fact is, scientific findings are now proving the genesis account of creation to be correct.

Beastt wrote..........Firstly, science includes the Laws of Thermodynamics which tells us outright that matter/energy can be neither created nor destroyed.

Gentorev........... and the law of Thermodynamics support the teachings of the ancients, which included the Hebrew teachings that are found in Genesis. They knew that when each generation of the universe descended into the bottomless pit (Black Hole) it was converted to invisible energy, only to be later resurrected as another universe in the image and likeness of the former.

As did the Buddhists, who believed that there were Universes after universes, that were like interminable successions of wheels forever coming into view, forever passing from being (Physical matter) to non being,(Invisible energy) and again from non-being (Energy) to being (Matter).

Those ancient religious believers understood that each generation of the universe would roll up as a scroll with a great hissing noise, and the elements becoming increasingly hot would burn up and fall as massive columns of fire beyond all measure in height and depth into the "Great Abyss" (Black Hole) beyond which, there was nothing.

That was taken from the book of Enoch the Prophet, whose words were quoted verbatim by Jude a half-brother of Jesus. When Enoch witnessed the heavens burn up and disappear into the Great Abyss, he asked the escorting angel, what place that was and the angel told him that the Great Abyss=Black Hole, was the prison of all the stars and the host of heaven.

The ancient religions believed in a God, who was the essential divine reality of the universe; the eternal spirit from which all being originates and to which all returns. They believed that with the return of each generation of the universe, the MOST HIGH to have developed within that period of universal activity enters into their God as the Supreme personality of Godhead. In other words, the eternal oscillating universe is God in the eternal process of evolution.

The "Son of Man" is the supreme personality of Godhead within this generation of the universal body, which means that mankind had evolved in the universe prior to this one.

John 1: 1; In the beginning was the LOGOS and the LOGOS was with=in God and the Logos was God,........In him was life=a supreme personality, and that personality was "The Light of MAN", all the wisdom, knowledge and insight that was gained from the body of mankind, who was the most high on the ladder of evolution and "LORD of CREATURES," who was the prototype of "The Lord of Spirits."

He is the same today as he was yesterday and will be into all eternity, He is the only constant in that He is constantly changing

It is today"s science that supports the biblical account of creation, wherein the beginning, the liquid-like electromagnetic energy from which this universe would be created, had no constant shape (Formless) and no mass (Void) but there was movement in those waters, as the quantum of that liquid flowing electromagnetic energy had no mass and no electric charge, but carried angular and linear momentum, which was the activating principle of the universe, and it was those wave particles that collided in nuclear fusion reactions to form the hydrogen and helium molecules from which was created the first generation stars that lit up the darkness of space on the first creative day.

Because no planets were created in the first generation universe, the only way that darkness could descend on the expanding space, was for those first stars to super nova, and collapse into the centrally condensed systems that were created by their own mass. Over time the Black Holes were attracted to each other by their own gravitational forces, till all that remained was the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity of origin. Then from the next Big Bang, the second generation of the universe was born, in the image and likeness of the first before it evolved a little further.

Our universe is already being gathered in preparation of the Big Crunch.

Our Milky Way galaxy is anchored in space by a super Black hole, which has a mass of over three million suns, and around the Super Black Hole at the centre of our Galaxy, orbits many other black holes, which were once at the centre of other lesser galactic bodies that have merged with ours.

The larger Magellanic Cloud (Nebecula Major) and the smaller Magellanic Cloud (Nebecula Minor) are two galaxies that are orbiting our Milky Way galaxy that orbits the central Super Black Hole to which those Magellanic Clouds are being gathered and will one day merge with our galaxy. The Super Black Hole at the centre of our being will continue to grow as it devours the other lesser black Holes and dying stars and planets within this galaxy. And our galaxy is on a collision course with Andromeda, which is a constellation in the Northern Hemisphere and they reckon when and if we do merge, millions upon millions of years in the future, there will be minimum collisions within the galaxies, not that the atheists, whose minds are convinced that there is no such thing as disembodied spirits need to worry. For as the mind believes, so does the mind receive.

God willing and time permitting, I will return to explain how, on the second day, our solar system is created from the nebula cloud which was the residue of a former star, where a firmament is created between the waters below that heaven and the waters above that heaven in which, the sun, moon and stars=planets whose light would shine on the earth were created and how they were created..