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Skyangel
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12/20/2014 8:28:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Before you start thinking this is another Christian preaching thread, think again. I am not a Christian.
I am merely going to try to explain the way I understand the trinity concept which is taught in Christianity.

Trinity is a concept of God manifesting in three different forms as a father figure, a son figure and a Holy Spirit which is more like an attitude of holiness than some disembodied ghost.

I have heard it compared to three parts of an egg, ie... the shell, the yoke, and the white but that makes no sense to me because three parts of an egg is not an egg manifested in three different forms. An egg shell is not the whole 100% egg. A yoke is also not the whole 100% egg and neither is the egg white the whole egg. Therefore that comparison is totally useless in my opinion.

I have heard it compared to water in three different forms which makes a lot more sense. You can have water vapor, liquid water and solid water in the form of ice. All of them are still 100% water but manifest in different forms. You do not end up with 300% water when you have three different forms of water in front of you. They are three states of water but are all the same water made up of the same chemical substance. H2O. The word of God is often compared to water in scripture.

I have also heard it compared to a family. Grandfather, father and son.
They are three different people but they may all have exactly the same name. Lets say they are all "Mr Smith". They are one family yet also three members of the one family.
They are all 100% Mr Smith. It makes no difference how many members in a family all have the same surname they are all 100% family and they are ONE corporate body with the same name even though they are many people.
God is the family name not an individual persons name.

Then we have a concept which says any man is a son of his own father and can also be a father of his own son and an uncle to another person. Any man can have three different roles or more without being three different people.

You can be 100% father, 100% grandfather and 100% son all at the same time due to different relationships with different people. It does not make you your own father your own grandfather or your own son though. However they do say any son is "just a chip off the old block."

Anyone want to correct me?
s-anthony
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12/20/2014 9:49:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/20/2014 8:28:54 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Before you start thinking this is another Christian preaching thread, think again. I am not a Christian.
I am merely going to try to explain the way I understand the trinity concept which is taught in Christianity.

Trinity is a concept of God manifesting in three different forms as a father figure, a son figure and a Holy Spirit which is more like an attitude of holiness than some disembodied ghost.

I have heard it compared to three parts of an egg, ie... the shell, the yoke, and the white but that makes no sense to me because three parts of an egg is not an egg manifested in three different forms. An egg shell is not the whole 100% egg. A yoke is also not the whole 100% egg and neither is the egg white the whole egg. Therefore that comparison is totally useless in my opinion.

I have heard it compared to water in three different forms which makes a lot more sense. You can have water vapor, liquid water and solid water in the form of ice. All of them are still 100% water but manifest in different forms. You do not end up with 300% water when you have three different forms of water in front of you. They are three states of water but are all the same water made up of the same chemical substance. H2O. The word of God is often compared to water in scripture.

I have also heard it compared to a family. Grandfather, father and son.
They are three different people but they may all have exactly the same name. Lets say they are all "Mr Smith". They are one family yet also three members of the one family.
They are all 100% Mr Smith. It makes no difference how many members in a family all have the same surname they are all 100% family and they are ONE corporate body with the same name even though they are many people.
God is the family name not an individual persons name.

Then we have a concept which says any man is a son of his own father and can also be a father of his own son and an uncle to another person. Any man can have three different roles or more without being three different people.

You can be 100% father, 100% grandfather and 100% son all at the same time due to different relationships with different people. It does not make you your own father your own grandfather or your own son though. However they do say any son is "just a chip off the old block."

Anyone want to correct me?

The only problem with the water analogy is historical orthodox Christianity teaches God is made up of three distinct persons and one never becomes any of the others.
Skyangel
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12/21/2014 12:01:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/20/2014 9:49:06 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 12/20/2014 8:28:54 PM, Skyangel wrote:

Anyone want to correct me?

The only problem with the water analogy is historical orthodox Christianity teaches God is made up of three distinct persons and one never becomes any of the others.

The problem with the teaching of God being three distinct persons is that it limits God and violates the whole concept of God being ALL and in ALL which is taught in Ephesians 4.

If God is indeed through all and in you all, he cannot be three distinct persons. How can all things have three distinct persons in and through them? It simply makes no sense.
The only way anything can be THROUGH ALL and IN ALL is if that thing is atoms or energy or just space.

John 4:24 teaches God is a spirit. A spirit is not an individual person of any kind but can easily be an attitude within all people like the attitude of Love is in all people. Love is not one individual person and neither is it three distinct persons by any stretch of imagination.

Eph 4:4 also teaches there is ONE spirit and ONE body not three distinct spirits or three bodies or three persons.

The spirit of God is also referred to as a Holy Spirit ( Eph 4:30, 1 Thess 4:8 ) and also as the Spirit of Truth ( John 14:17, John 15:26, John 16:13) and a Spirit of Life ( Rom 8:2, Rev 11:11). God is also Love which is also a spirit not a person. ( 1 John 4:8, 1 John 4:16)
In Revelation seven spirits of God are mentioned ( Rev 1:4, 3:1, 4:5, 5:6 )
If God is manifest through seven spirits and a spirit is a person how can God be a trinity? Seven is not three. Someone obviously cannot count.
If God is ALL and In ALL how can God be three of anything? If you count ALL things do you end up with three persons?
Of course not. Therefore the concept of a trinity makes no sense at all.

Google "pagan roots of trinity"

Some believe the trinity is a pagan concept which has infiltrated Christianity.
Others do not want to believe it but the fact is that the concept was in pagan religions well before Christianity was established so decide for yourselves.
s-anthony
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12/21/2014 6:29:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The problem with the teaching of God being three distinct persons is that it limits God and violates the whole concept of God being ALL and in ALL which is taught in Ephesians 4.

If God is Creator, then, all things come from God. Yet, all things are not God. For the concept of God to make sense, there must be something God is not. However, creation being the product of God, and God alone, it is made from the very substance of God; and, this is the meaning of pantheism, God and all things are one. Needless to say, if all things are singular, how can they be a plurality? In other words, how can they be things? I believe the answer lies (for me, at least) in the belief God is a mystery, an enigma, a puzzle, a paradox. For me, God is ex uno, plures (out of one, many.)

If God is indeed through all and in you all, he cannot be three distinct persons. How can all things have three distinct persons in and through them? It simply makes no sense.
The only way anything can be THROUGH ALL and IN ALL is if that thing is atoms or energy or just space.

John 4:24 teaches God is a spirit. A spirit is not an individual person of any kind but can easily be an attitude within all people like the attitude of Love is in all people. Love is not one individual person and neither is it three distinct persons by any stretch of imagination.

Yet, in English, we make it distinct; we give it individuality. We speak of spirits; we say such things as the spirit of God, the spirit of humanity; we say he, or she, has a spirit or his, or her spirit, has gone to Heaven. On the cross, Christ said, "...(I)nto thy hands, I commend my spirit." A spirit has distinction in it is unique to an individual; in other words, it has a personality; a spirit is universal in that it is the essence of all things.

Eph 4:4 also teaches there is ONE spirit and ONE body not three distinct spirits or three bodies or three persons.

The spirit of God is also referred to as a Holy Spirit ( Eph 4:30, 1 Thess 4:8 ) and also as the Spirit of Truth ( John 14:17, John 15:26, John 16:13) and a Spirit of Life ( Rom 8:2, Rev 11:11). God is also Love which is also a spirit not a person. ( 1 John 4:8, 1 John 4:16)
In Revelation seven spirits of God are mentioned ( Rev 1:4, 3:1, 4:5, 5:6 )
If God is manifest through seven spirits and a spirit is a person how can God be a trinity? Seven is not three. Someone obviously cannot count.
If God is ALL and In ALL how can God be three of anything? If you count ALL things do you end up with three persons?
Of course not. Therefore the concept of a trinity makes no sense at all.

I believe you are taking this way too literally. We are not speaking of mathematical equations but of archetypes, motifs, and psychological symbols. It seems to me most people confuse matters of the heart with matters of the head; religion for the most part is something that is felt; religious symbols have very little to do with intellect; for the most part, they are emotionally charged; and, as emotionally charged psychic content, they only make sense in the context of one's heart. For instance, I have a friend who lost his partner of nineteen years. He is finding it very difficult to get rid of his partners belongings. Things that would otherwise mean nothing to him if they were not emotionally charged. The symbols of religion have very little significance in and of themselves; in fact, they are expendable and are replaced by other symbols from one religion to the next. Yet, these symbols represent deeper universal meanings. They represent the evolution of the human psyche. It is our common heritage that imbues these symbols with meaning; it is this human experience that gives them significance.

Google "pagan roots of trinity"

Some believe the trinity is a pagan concept which has infiltrated Christianity.
Others do not want to believe it but the fact is that the concept was in pagan religions well before Christianity was established so decide for yourselves.

Most, if not all, of Christianity has its roots in paganism.
annanicole
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12/21/2014 6:36:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/20/2014 9:49:06 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 12/20/2014 8:28:54 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Before you start thinking this is another Christian preaching thread, think again. I am not a Christian.
I am merely going to try to explain the way I understand the trinity concept which is taught in Christianity.

Trinity is a concept of God manifesting in three different forms as a father figure, a son figure and a Holy Spirit which is more like an attitude of holiness than some disembodied ghost.

I have heard it compared to three parts of an egg, ie... the shell, the yoke, and the white but that makes no sense to me because three parts of an egg is not an egg manifested in three different forms. An egg shell is not the whole 100% egg. A yoke is also not the whole 100% egg and neither is the egg white the whole egg. Therefore that comparison is totally useless in my opinion.

I have heard it compared to water in three different forms which makes a lot more sense. You can have water vapor, liquid water and solid water in the form of ice. All of them are still 100% water but manifest in different forms. You do not end up with 300% water when you have three different forms of water in front of you. They are three states of water but are all the same water made up of the same chemical substance. H2O. The word of God is often compared to water in scripture.

I have also heard it compared to a family. Grandfather, father and son.
They are three different people but they may all have exactly the same name. Lets say they are all "Mr Smith". They are one family yet also three members of the one family.
They are all 100% Mr Smith. It makes no difference how many members in a family all have the same surname they are all 100% family and they are ONE corporate body with the same name even though they are many people.
God is the family name not an individual persons name.

Then we have a concept which says any man is a son of his own father and can also be a father of his own son and an uncle to another person. Any man can have three different roles or more without being three different people.

You can be 100% father, 100% grandfather and 100% son all at the same time due to different relationships with different people. It does not make you your own father your own grandfather or your own son though. However they do say any son is "just a chip off the old block."

Anyone want to correct me?

The only problem with the water analogy is historical orthodox Christianity teaches God is made up of three distinct persons and one never becomes any of the others.

The analogy is correct as far as she applied it, however (which surprises me, considering the source). All analogies/types/figures eventually break down after they've illustrated their intended point.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Rant
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12/21/2014 7:17:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Genesis 1:26King James Version (KJV)

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
There is nothing more to be said >when The Tri starts out in genesis with the Tri. Not more to be said. Enjoy
Rant
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12/21/2014 7:26:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
just a chip off the old block."

Anyone want to correct me? Jws say jesus is a chip off the old block, Islam says the same thing, so do Mormons. Enjoy
Rant
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12/21/2014 7:32:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
A duck > when it walks and talks like a duck>its a duck. When apostates walk like apostates and talk like apostates it from the pit of HELL!
Rant
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12/21/2014 7:45:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
So tell me sky >why are you talking about the TRI> when you have no idea what you are talking about???????
Rant
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12/21/2014 8:02:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Can you tell me in the bible that Jesus says Me and the Father are One! and the Jews wanted to stone him for this because they knew what he said. not what you think you know.
Skyangel
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12/22/2014 1:15:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/21/2014 6:29:39 PM, s-anthony wrote:
The problem with the teaching of God being three distinct persons is that it limits God and violates the whole concept of God being ALL and in ALL which is taught in Ephesians 4.

If God is Creator, then, all things come from God. Yet, all things are not God. For the concept of God to make sense, there must be something God is not. However, creation being the product of God, and God alone, it is made from the very substance of God; and, this is the meaning of pantheism, God and all things are one. Needless to say, if all things are singular, how can they be a plurality? In other words, how can they be things? I believe the answer lies (for me, at least) in the belief God is a mystery, an enigma, a puzzle, a paradox. For me, God is ex uno, plures (out of one, many.)

Here are two ways to interpret what you just wrote...

1. If an invisible supernatural being is a Creator, then, all things come from that supernatural entity. Yet, all things are not that supernatural entity. For the concept of a supernatural entity to make sense, there must be something that entity is not. However, creation being the product of the supernatural being, and that entity alone, it is made from the very substance of the supernatural being; and, this is the meaning of pantheism, The supernatural being and all things are one. Needless to say, if all things are singular, how can they be a plurality? In other words, how can they be things? I believe the answer lies (for me, at least) in the belief that the invisible supernatural entity is a mystery, an enigma, a puzzle, a paradox. For me, The invisible supernatural being is ex uno, plures (out of one, many.)

2, If Energy is Creator, then, all things come from Energy Yet, all things are not Energy. For the concept of Energy to make sense, there must be something Energy is not. However, creation being the product of Energy, and Energy alone, it is made from the very substance of Energy; and, this is the meaning of pantheism , Energy and all things are one. Needless to say, if all things are singular, how can they be a plurality? In other words, how can they be things? I believe the answer lies (for me, at least) in the belief Energy is a mystery, an enigma, a puzzle, a paradox. For me, Energy is ex uno, plures (out of one, many.)

Your comment might make some kind of sense if you interpret God as a supernatural being but it makes no sense at all if you interpret God as a personification of Energy.
All things actually are energy. Everything that exists is made of the same "stuff"
Pantheism is about a supernatural entity being one with his creation. I am not a pantheist. I do not believe in any supernatural entities at all.
I believe God is a personification of energy and everything that exists is a manifestation of energy.
You asked "if all things are singular, how can they be a plurality?"
For me that is easy to figure out. It is like having a paddock filled with sheep. They are all single sheep and they are also a corporate body of sheep or a plurality of sheep.
Energy is still all the same energy regardless of how many forms it manifests through.
It is one energy in many forms. That is how it can be one and many at the same time. It's not that hard to solve the puzzle.

For me the whole concept of God being a trinity is ludicrous simply because in my mind, that concept limits Energy to only three forms.
Skyangel
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12/22/2014 1:47:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/21/2014 6:29:39 PM, s-anthony wrote:

If God is indeed through all and in you all, he cannot be three distinct persons. How can all things have three distinct persons in and through them? It simply makes no sense.
The only way anything can be THROUGH ALL and IN ALL is if that thing is atoms or energy or just space.

John 4:24 teaches God is a spirit. A spirit is not an individual person of any kind but can easily be an attitude within all people like the attitude of Love is in all people. Love is not one individual person and neither is it three distinct persons by any stretch of imagination.

Yet, in English, we make it distinct; we give it individuality. We speak of spirits; we say such things as the spirit of God, the spirit of humanity; we say he, or she, has a spirit or his, or her spirit, has gone to Heaven. On the cross, Christ said, "...(I)nto thy hands, I commend my spirit." A spirit has distinction in it is unique to an individual; in other words, it has a personality; a spirit is universal in that it is the essence of all things.

The word spirit can be interpreted as a disembodied ghost or it can also be interpreted as a vibe, a feeling, an attitude, a mood, of a single person or a group of people. Interpreting is at a vibe, mood, feeling, etc makes far more sense to me than interpreting it as a disembodied ghost.
It is the habit of personifying these moods, vibes, etc which gives them individuality and personality in the minds of people who believe in disembodied ghosts.
Spirit is simply another word for the energy within people. It is that energy which causes them to be animated, look and feel alive.
People have personalities. Those personalities are unique depending on how they personally interpret and express their own "moods" and energy within them. We obviously don't all express ourselves exactly the same and we don't always express ourselves exactly like others would like us to express ourselves. That is what makes life interesting.

Eph 4:4 also teaches there is ONE spirit and ONE body not three distinct spirits or three bodies or three persons.

The spirit of God is also referred to as a Holy Spirit ( Eph 4:30, 1 Thess 4:8 ) and also as the Spirit of Truth ( John 14:17, John 15:26, John 16:13) and a Spirit of Life ( Rom 8:2, Rev 11:11). God is also Love which is also a spirit not a person. ( 1 John 4:8, 1 John 4:16)
In Revelation seven spirits of God are mentioned ( Rev 1:4, 3:1, 4:5, 5:6 )
If God is manifest through seven spirits and a spirit is a person how can God be a trinity? Seven is not three. Someone obviously cannot count.
If God is ALL and in ALL how can God be three of anything? If you count ALL things do you end up with three persons?
Of course not. Therefore the concept of a trinity makes no sense at all.

I believe you are taking this way too literally. We are not speaking of mathematical equations but of archetypes, motifs, and psychological symbols. It seems to me most people confuse matters of the heart with matters of the head; religion for the most part is something that is felt; religious symbols have very little to do with intellect; for the most part, they are emotionally charged; and, as emotionally charged psychic content, they only make sense in the context of one's heart. For instance, I have a friend who lost his partner of nineteen years. He is finding it very difficult to get rid of his partners belongings. Things that would otherwise mean nothing to him if they were not emotionally charged. The symbols of religion have very little significance in and of themselves; in fact, they are expendable and are replaced by other symbols from one religion to the next. Yet, these symbols represent deeper universal meanings. They represent the evolution of the human psyche. It is our common heritage that imbues these symbols with meaning; it is this human experience that gives them significance.


I am taking it literally to try to show the believers in a literal trinity how ridiculous the concept really is.
Most believers tend to separate God into three actual persons. They do not seem to perceive God as any kind of psychological symbol or archetype but as a real supernatural character who has a real son who is also a supernatural character and they both share the same spirit, mind or attitude.
It seems to me most religious people are more confused than they realize themselves.
Religion for the most part is based on a childish belief in a supernatural entity. It is founded more on emotion than intellect and that is why it makes no sense to most intelligent people.
Human heart matters can obviously create a lot of emotional upheaval within us as well as causing people to deceive themselves without even knowing it.
As scripture says, the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. ( Jer 17:9)
Yet we often hear people tell each other... "Just follow your heart."
Why do that if the heart tends to lead us astray?
I think the symbols of religion have a lot of significance in helping us understand the reality of life.
The symbols from one religion to the next are actually quite similar if you look into their universal meanings.
I agree that they can represent the evolution of the human psyche. It is all about gaining maturity and understanding, coming out of ignorance ( darkness) into revelation ( light)

Google "pagan roots of trinity"

Some believe the trinity is a pagan concept which has infiltrated Christianity.
Others do not want to believe it but the fact is that the concept was in pagan religions well before Christianity was established so decide for yourselves.

Most, if not all, of Christianity has its roots in paganism.

Yes it does but most Christians refuse to believe or accept that fact.
PGA
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12/22/2014 2:00:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 1:15:46 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/21/2014 6:29:39 PM, s-anthony wrote:
The problem with the teaching of God being three distinct persons is that it limits God and violates the whole concept of God being ALL and in ALL which is taught in Ephesians 4.

If God is Creator, then, all things come from God. Yet, all things are not God. For the concept of God to make sense, there must be something God is not. However, creation being the product of God, and God alone, it is made from the very substance of God; and, this is the meaning of pantheism, God and all things are one. Needless to say, if all things are singular, how can they be a plurality? In other words, how can they be things? I believe the answer lies (for me, at least) in the belief God is a mystery, an enigma, a puzzle, a paradox. For me, God is ex uno, plures (out of one, many.)

Here are two ways to interpret what you just wrote...

1. If an invisible supernatural being is a Creator, then, all things come from that supernatural entity. Yet, all things are not that supernatural entity. For the concept of a supernatural entity to make sense, there must be something that entity is not. However, creation being the product of the supernatural being, and that entity alone, it is made from the very substance of the supernatural being; and, this is the meaning of pantheism,

You confuse the Creator with the creation. The biblical God transcends and is distinct from His creation. It is made up of time, space and matter whereas He is not. Pantheism on the other hand has the creation as being God.

The supernatural being and all things are one. Needless to say, if all things are singular, how can they be a plurality? In other words, how can they be things? I believe the answer lies (for me, at least) in the belief that the invisible supernatural entity is a mystery, an enigma, a puzzle, a paradox. For me, The invisible supernatural being is ex uno, plures (out of one, many.)

God is one and He is many. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three distinct Beings yet they are the one true God - eternal, unchanging, the same in unity and essence.

2, If Energy is Creator, then, all things come from Energy Yet, all things are not Energy. For the concept of Energy to make sense, there must be something Energy is not. However, creation being the product of Energy, and Energy alone, it is made from the very substance of Energy; and, this is the meaning of pantheism , Energy and all things are one. Needless to say, if all things are singular, how can they be a plurality? In other words, how can they be things? I believe the answer lies (for me, at least) in the belief Energy is a mystery, an enigma, a puzzle, a paradox. For me, Energy is ex uno, plures (out of one, many.)

Energy is not God. Energy by itself lacks intent and agency to do anything. Intent and agency come from being.

Your comment might make some kind of sense if you interpret God as a supernatural being but it makes no sense at all if you interpret God as a personification of Energy.
All things actually are energy. Everything that exists is made of the same "stuff"
Pantheism is about a supernatural entity being one with his creation. I am not a pantheist. I do not believe in any supernatural entities at all.
I believe God is a personification of energy and everything that exists is a manifestation of energy.
You asked "if all things are singular, how can they be a plurality?"
For me that is easy to figure out. It is like having a paddock filled with sheep. They are all single sheep and they are also a corporate body of sheep or a plurality of sheep.
Energy is still all the same energy regardless of how many forms it manifests through.
It is one energy in many forms. That is how it can be one and many at the same time. It's not that hard to solve the puzzle.

For me the whole concept of God being a trinity is ludicrous simply because in my mind, that concept limits Energy to only three forms.

I don't think your definition of Pantheism meets the standard definition of what it means. In pantheism all is one and one is all. That would make you and everything else, including a slab of wood God. If you are God then show me you all all powerful.

Peter
Skyangel
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12/22/2014 3:15:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 2:00:19 AM, PGA wrote:
At 12/22/2014 1:15:46 AM, Skyangel wrote:

You confuse the Creator with the creation. The biblical God transcends and is distinct from His creation. It is made up of time, space and matter whereas He is not. Pantheism on the other hand has the creation as being God.

I am not confused. You are the one separating creation from an invisible supernatural entity which exists only in human imagination. That "entity" is basically the power/energy which animates creation. That energy/power is within the creation itself not something separate outside of the creation. The energy and power ( spirit) which animates you is within you not outside of you.
What makes you believe God transcends time space and matter?
God is Time. Rev 22;13 says he is the beginning and the end. If that does not refer to time what does it refer to? Time exists within eternity. It is ultimately infinite. Time as a whole is eternal. God is eternal.
God is also space in the sense of being above all through all and in all ( Eph 4:6).. Space is certainly above all things, through all things and in all things. So is energy. So are atoms which are apparently 99.999% space.
God is also matter in the sense of manifesting as all kinds of matter. Do you need a list of all the material visible ways God manifested himself in the bible stories?

The supernatural being and all things are one. Needless to say, if all things are singular, how can they be a plurality? In other words, how can they be things? I believe the answer lies (for me, at least) in the belief that the invisible supernatural entity is a mystery, an enigma, a puzzle, a paradox. For me, The invisible supernatural being is ex uno, plures (out of one, many.)

God is one and He is many. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three distinct Beings yet they are the one true God - eternal, unchanging, the same in unity and essence.

God is certainly many things but far more than just three things, three members or three persons. It is a corporate infinite and eternal body consisting of innumerable members.
1 Cor 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

2, If Energy is Creator, then, all things come from Energy Yet, all things are not Energy. For the concept of Energy to make sense, there must be something Energy is not. However, creation being the product of Energy, and Energy alone, it is made from the very substance of Energy; and, this is the meaning of pantheism , Energy and all things are one. Needless to say, if all things are singular, how can they be a plurality? In other words, how can they be things? I believe the answer lies (for me, at least) in the belief Energy is a mystery, an enigma, a puzzle, a paradox. For me, Energy is ex uno, plures (out of one, many.)

Energy is not God. Energy by itself lacks intent and agency to do anything. Intent and agency come from being.

You are basically just a ball of energy. Do you lack intent and agency to do anything? If you don't, you are living proof that energy does not lack intent and agency.
"Being" simply means exiting. Energy has always existed according to scientists. It apparently cannot be created or destroyed. Therefore whatever energy exists can never be increased or decreased.

Your comment might make some kind of sense if you interpret God as a supernatural being but it makes no sense at all if you interpret God as a personification of Energy.
All things actually are energy. Everything that exists is made of the same "stuff"
Pantheism is about a supernatural entity being one with his creation. I am not a pantheist. I do not believe in any supernatural entities at all.
I believe God is a personification of energy and everything that exists is a manifestation of energy.
You asked "if all things are singular, how can they be a plurality?"
For me that is easy to figure out. It is like having a paddock filled with sheep. They are all single sheep and they are also a corporate body of sheep or a plurality of sheep.
Energy is still all the same energy regardless of how many forms it manifests through.
It is one energy in many forms. That is how it can be one and many at the same time. It's not that hard to solve the puzzle.

For me the whole concept of God being a trinity is ludicrous simply because in my mind, that concept limits Energy to only three forms.

I don't think your definition of Pantheism meets the standard definition of what it means. In pantheism all is one and one is all. That would make you and everything else, including a slab of wood God. If you are God then show me you all all powerful.


You don't seem to understand that a slab of wood alone is not God neither is any other single object. God is not a single object or individual entity. God is the corporate body of everything in existence. No single object or person is God any more than you are your whole family. The word God is like the word family. It consists of far more than one individual and also far more than three individuals. It consists of innumerable members for all eternity. It is ONE BODY of MANY members. That refers to a corporate body not one body of one individual or some small "club of authority" consisting of only three persons.

"All power" is not contained in one individual. "All power" is a combination of all "the powers that be" in the universe.
Each individual is like a drop of water in the ocean which is also water. You are asking one drop of water to prove it has the same power as all the water that exists. Obviously it does not. You are being illogical and obviously do not comprehend the concept of ALL power at all.
You are imagining God as a single individual which is an incorrect concept. God is ALL power/ energy which exists. God is not a supernatural entity which owns all the power that exists.
I am merely a tiny piece of that power/ energy the same as if I was a drop of water in the ocean. I am not all the energy in existence. I am merely one atom in the corporate body of God. That is how insignificant and invisible I really am in the big picture.
The only power I have is the power you believe I have.
I have the power to wake you out of sleep if you ever want to be woken up but I would need to be close enough to you to make a lot of noise or annoy the heck out of you till you stop dreaming.
s-anthony
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12/22/2014 7:56:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Here are two ways to interpret what you just wrote...

1. If an invisible supernatural being is a Creator, then, all things come from that supernatural entity. Yet, all things are not that supernatural entity. For the concept of a supernatural entity to make sense, there must be something that entity is not. However, creation being the product of the supernatural being, and that entity alone, it is made from the very substance of the supernatural being; and, this is the meaning of pantheism, The supernatural being and all things are one. Needless to say, if all things are singular, how can they be a plurality? In other words, how can they be things? I believe the answer lies (for me, at least) in the belief that the invisible supernatural entity is a mystery, an enigma, a puzzle, a paradox. For me, The invisible supernatural being is ex uno, plures (out of one, many.)

2, If Energy is Creator, then, all things come from Energy Yet, all things are not Energy. For the concept of Energy to make sense, there must be something Energy is not. However, creation being the product of Energy, and Energy alone, it is made from the very substance of Energy; and, this is the meaning of pantheism , Energy and all things are one. Needless to say, if all things are singular, how can they be a plurality? In other words, how can they be things? I believe the answer lies (for me, at least) in the belief Energy is a mystery, an enigma, a puzzle, a paradox. For me, Energy is ex uno, plures (out of one, many.)

Your comment might make some kind of sense if you interpret God as a supernatural being but it makes no sense at all if you interpret God as a personification of Energy.
All things actually are energy. Everything that exists is made of the same "stuff"
Pantheism is about a supernatural entity being one with his creation. I am not a pantheist. I do not believe in any supernatural entities at all.
I believe God is a personification of energy and everything that exists is a manifestation of energy.
You asked "if all things are singular, how can they be a plurality?"
For me that is easy to figure out. It is like having a paddock filled with sheep. They are all single sheep and they are also a corporate body of sheep or a plurality of sheep.
Energy is still all the same energy regardless of how many forms it manifests through.
It is one energy in many forms. That is how it can be one and many at the same time. It's not that hard to solve the puzzle.

For me the whole concept of God being a trinity is ludicrous simply because in my mind, that concept limits Energy to only three forms.

Classical pantheism stems from Spinoza, and Spinoza was a naturalist. He believed, simply, God was the physical universe. For the longest time, I considered myself a pantheist. The concept of something existing beyond space and time to me was illogical, and if it was illogical, it could not be true, until I considered the nature of light.

Light is a physical property in that we experience it in space and time; in other words, it inhabits a certain amount of space and it takes a determinate amount of time to go from one point to the next. However, light is also a metaphysical property in that traveling at such a great speed it (if it were conscious) would experience neither time nor space; the moment of emission is the very moment of absorption. How can something be physical from one perspective yet not physical from another? If Einstein's theory is right, in saying at the velocity of light, time does not exist, this would seem to contradict our observation of it as a physical property. This perplexity reminds me of the quote from Shakespeare, "There are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
bornofgod
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12/22/2014 8:45:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/20/2014 8:28:54 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Before you start thinking this is another Christian preaching thread, think again. I am not a Christian.
I am merely going to try to explain the way I understand the trinity concept which is taught in Christianity.

Trinity is a concept of God manifesting in three different forms as a father figure, a son figure and a Holy Spirit which is more like an attitude of holiness than some disembodied ghost.

I have heard it compared to three parts of an egg, ie... the shell, the yoke, and the white but that makes no sense to me because three parts of an egg is not an egg manifested in three different forms. An egg shell is not the whole 100% egg. A yoke is also not the whole 100% egg and neither is the egg white the whole egg. Therefore that comparison is totally useless in my opinion.

I have heard it compared to water in three different forms which makes a lot more sense. You can have water vapor, liquid water and solid water in the form of ice. All of them are still 100% water but manifest in different forms. You do not end up with 300% water when you have three different forms of water in front of you. They are three states of water but are all the same water made up of the same chemical substance. H2O. The word of God is often compared to water in scripture.

I have also heard it compared to a family. Grandfather, father and son.
They are three different people but they may all have exactly the same name. Lets say they are all "Mr Smith". They are one family yet also three members of the one family.
They are all 100% Mr Smith. It makes no difference how many members in a family all have the same surname they are all 100% family and they are ONE corporate body with the same name even though they are many people.
God is the family name not an individual persons name.

Then we have a concept which says any man is a son of his own father and can also be a father of his own son and an uncle to another person. Any man can have three different roles or more without being three different people.

You can be 100% father, 100% grandfather and 100% son all at the same time due to different relationships with different people. It does not make you your own father your own grandfather or your own son though. However they do say any son is "just a chip off the old block."

Anyone want to correct me?

No one can correct a fool who has no knowledge of God to understand anything written in the Bible.

Christians don't understand that "Son" and "Holy Spirit" are symbolic names for the exact same thing.
Rant
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12/22/2014 10:06:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Jesus is God and God is Jesus and the holy Ghost are one but three, cults cry foul but they twist the sword of God for their own evil lusts.
Did Jesus say He was God? Jesus claimed equality with the God the Father. "Jesus said to them, 'My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working.' For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God" (John 5:17-18).
"Then Jesus, still teaching in the temple courts, cried out, 'Yes, you know me, and you know where I am from. I am not here on my own, but he who sent me is true. You do not know him, but I know him because I am from him and he sent me'" (John 7:28-29).
"Then they asked him, 'Where is your father?' 'You do not know me or my Father,' Jesus replied. 'If you knew me, you would know my Father also'" (John 8:19) "'I tell you the truth,' Jesus answered, 'before Abraham was born, I am!'" (John 8:58). "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30).
Therefore the Jews certainly understood that Jesus was claiming to be God and they sought to kill Him because of it. "'What about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, "I am God's Son"? Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.' Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp." (John 10:36-39). This is just one incident where the Jewish authority sought to take Jesus or to stone Him and He escaped out of their hands because His time had not yet come (John 8:20).
Jesus also affirmed His deity to the disciples. "'If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.' Philip said, 'Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.' Jesus answered: 'Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, "Show us the Father"? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.'" (John 14:7-11, 20).
The seventeenth chapter of John records Jesus Christ's high priestly prayer. "After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: 'Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began'" (John 17:1-5).
In this wonderful prayer, Jesus says, "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me" (John 17:20-21). Did Jesus say that He was God? Yes! Amen!
Rant
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12/22/2014 10:15:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The scripture says that there will be a great falling away from the true faith in the last days. It says men will not endure sound doctrine but will have itching ears and will heap to themselves teachers that will fulfill their own lusts. We are in those days where many in the church are following doctrines of men rather than the Bible. There are almost two billion people who identify with Christianity on the earth today but how many are truly the bride of Christ? Jesus asked, when He returns will He find faith on the earth? The answer for most of the world is no. For those who identify with Christianity it is yes and no. Many today have only empty religion and not real faith in the Savior.
My best guess is a tithe (ten percent) of those who identify with Christianity are actually born of the Spirit and will go at the time of the rapture. (It could be more -- only God knows.) If my guess is correct the ninety percent of carnal Christians that stay will hardly miss them. Those that stay will remain in the apostate harlot church (Rev 17) and experience the great tribulation where they will have a choice to follow Jesus and lose their lives or follow Satan and lose their soul.
Skyangel
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12/22/2014 5:02:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 7:56:52 AM, s-anthony wrote:

Classical pantheism stems from Spinoza, and Spinoza was a naturalist. He believed, simply, God was the physical universe. For the longest time, I considered myself a pantheist. The concept of something existing beyond space and time to me was illogical, and if it was illogical, it could not be true, until I considered the nature of light.

I don't consider myself to be a pantheist. If you do, that is obviously the way you judge and define me and I cannot do a thing about it. You are free to put me in any box you want if you have some psychological need to file people into boxes and categories.

Light is a physical property in that we experience it in space and time; in other words, it inhabits a certain amount of space and it takes a determinate amount of time to go from one point to the next. However, light is also a metaphysical property in that traveling at such a great speed it (if it were conscious) would experience neither time nor space; the moment of emission is the very moment of absorption. How can something be physical from one perspective yet not physical from another? If Einstein's theory is right, in saying at the velocity of light, time does not exist, this would seem to contradict our observation of it as a physical property. This perplexity reminds me of the quote from Shakespeare, "There are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

As you say, from the point of view of light itself, it does not experience time or space and therefore also does not experience speed. Speed is a subjective human measurement invented by humans and perceived by humans.
The fact that humans want to believe that light travels any place at any speed does not mean it does what we think or believe it does.
Most people believe it is impossible for anything to go faster than the speed of light but that is not necessarily true according to Quantum Physics.
http://www.livescience.com...

All things we humans observe are relative to our own perception.
Anything at all can be physical from one perspective and metaphysical from another.
The concept of "the moment of emission is the very moment of absorption" applies not just to light but also to time and everything else I can imagine. All things are basically "living and dying" in the same instant in the process of growth and change. It is a process where the new is constantly replacing the old. It is as if the universe is constantly recycling itself.

Einsteins theory sounds perfectly logical to me. What we humans observe are all illusions due to the movement of energy in and through space.
We perceive it all as being real because we believe it is real. Humans perception creates illusions which we believe are real because those illusions are the reality in which we live. Some people are obviously more deceived by them than others.

Obviously many more things exist than any one person can ever dream or imagine but as a whole we humans do a great job with human imaginations and dreaming up all kinds of things which sound convincing enough for others to accept and believe them.
Birds of a feather flock together in more ways than one. Those who think alike tend to hang around together to support each others ideas. It makes them all feel smart.

Say this tongue twister three times as fast as you can.
One smart fellow; he felt smart.
Two smart fellows; they felt smart.
Three smart fellows all felt smart together.

In the end all the smarts are blowing in the wind.
Skyangel
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12/22/2014 5:08:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 10:15:45 AM, Rant wrote:
The scripture says that there will be a great falling away from the true faith in the last days. It says men will not endure sound doctrine but will have itching ears and will heap to themselves teachers that will fulfill their own lusts. We are in those days where many in the church are following doctrines of men rather than the Bible. There are almost two billion people who identify with Christianity on the earth today but how many are truly the bride of Christ? Jesus asked, when He returns will He find faith on the earth? The answer for most of the world is no. For those who identify with Christianity it is yes and no. Many today have only empty religion and not real faith in the Savior.
My best guess is a tithe (ten percent) of those who identify with Christianity are actually born of the Spirit and will go at the time of the rapture. (It could be more -- only God knows.) If my guess is correct the ninety percent of carnal Christians that stay will hardly miss them. Those that stay will remain in the apostate harlot church (Rev 17) and experience the great tribulation where they will have a choice to follow Jesus and lose their lives or follow Satan and lose their soul.

Rave on.
s-anthony
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12/22/2014 9:29:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The word spirit can be interpreted as a disembodied ghost or it can also be interpreted as a vibe, a feeling, an attitude, a mood, of a single person or a group of people. Interpreting is at a vibe, mood, feeling, etc makes far more sense to me than interpreting it as a disembodied ghost.
It is the habit of personifying these moods, vibes, etc which gives them individuality and personality in the minds of people who believe in disembodied ghosts.
Spirit is simply another word for the energy within people. It is that energy which causes them to be animated, look and feel alive.
People have personalities. Those personalities are unique depending on how they personally interpret and express their own "moods" and energy within them. We obviously don't all express ourselves exactly the same and we don't always express ourselves exactly like others would like us to express ourselves. That is what makes life interesting.

Eph 4:4 also teaches there is ONE spirit and ONE body not three distinct spirits or three bodies or three persons.

The spirit of God is also referred to as a Holy Spirit ( Eph 4:30, 1 Thess 4:8 ) and also as the Spirit of Truth ( John 14:17, John 15:26, John 16:13) and a Spirit of Life ( Rom 8:2, Rev 11:11). God is also Love which is also a spirit not a person. ( 1 John 4:8, 1 John 4:16)
In Revelation seven spirits of God are mentioned ( Rev 1:4, 3:1, 4:5, 5:6 )
If God is manifest through seven spirits and a spirit is a person how can God be a trinity? :Seven is not three. Someone obviously cannot count.
If God is ALL and in ALL how can God be three of anything? If you count ALL things do you end up with three persons?
Of course not. Therefore the concept of a trinity makes no sense at all.

I believe you are taking this way too literally. We are not speaking of mathematical equations but of archetypes, motifs, and psychological symbols. It seems to me most people confuse matters of the heart with matters of the head; religion for the most part is something that is felt; religious symbols have very little to do with intellect; for the most part, they are emotionally charged; and, as emotionally charged psychic content, they only make sense in the context of one's heart. For instance, I have a friend who lost his partner of nineteen years. He is finding it very difficult to get rid of his partners belongings. Things that would otherwise mean nothing to him if they were not emotionally charged. The symbols of religion have very little significance in and of themselves; in fact, they are expendable and are replaced by other symbols from one religion to the next. Yet, these symbols represent deeper universal meanings. They represent the evolution of the human psyche. It is our common heritage that imbues these symbols with meaning; it is this human experience that gives them significance.

I am taking it literally to try to show the believers in a literal trinity how ridiculous the concept really is.
Most believers tend to separate God into three actual persons. They do not seem to perceive God as any kind of psychological symbol or archetype but as a real supernatural character who has a real son who is also a supernatural character and they both share the same spirit, mind or attitude.
It seems to me most religious people are more confused than they realize themselves.
Religion for the most part is based on a childish belief in a supernatural entity. It is founded more on emotion than intellect and that is why it makes no sense to most intelligent people.
Human heart matters can obviously create a lot of emotional upheaval within us as well as causing people to deceive themselves without even knowing it.
As scripture says, the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. ( Jer 17:9)
Yet we often hear people tell each other... "Just follow your heart."
Why do that if the heart tends to lead us astray?
I think the symbols of religion have a lot of significance in helping us understand the reality of life.
The symbols from one religion to the next are actually quite similar if you look into their universal meanings.
I agree that they can represent the evolution of the human psyche. It is all about gaining maturity and understanding, coming out of ignorance ( darkness) into revelation ( light)

I believe the head is dead without the heart and the heart is lost without the head; in other words, I believe one enlivens and guides the other. Without the heart, nothing would have anymore value to us than anything else. It is our feelings for things that move us. Yet, the head makes sense out of our emotions; it orders things and provides a logical framework.

Sometimes, the head is at odds with the heart. This is evident in placing an inordinate amount of value on something that seems to benefit us very little and at times is detrimental to our physical or emotional well-being.

However, just because someone's love for something appears to us as being irrational doesn't mean it is to that individual. Religious people find worth in their beliefs because to them they have meaning. We may disagree with them, and it's our right to do so; but, that doesn't negate the value and significance they have found in that which they believe.
stubs
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12/23/2014 12:17:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
You may find this helpful. Obviously as just the wikipedia post it doesn't cover everything and you can do more research if you like, but it may help. http://en.wikipedia.org...
Skyangel
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12/23/2014 5:05:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
From http://submission.org...

"The Christian Church teaches that there is one God. Paradoxically, it also teaches that God is three persons - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost- and that they are not mere manifestations of the deity. The Father is God, the Son is God, and so is the Holy Ghost. And they are co-eternal, co-equal, and co-existent.
Each, we are told, exists as an individual "person" but all three are "one God." As the familiar hymn puts it: "God in three persons; blessed Trinity.
..................
But the logic here is difficult to follow: If Jesus of Nazareth was, as the Christian church asserts, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, he was "begotten" by a member of his own family, the Holy Ghost.
Moreover, the purported facts of Jesus' birth seem to indicate that the members of the Holy Trinity are not, as the Apostle's Creed states, co-equal and co-eternal. The Father, for instance, is unmistakably senior. He is the creator, the law-giver, and the prime mover, and the Son and the Holy Ghost are subject to him and do his bidding. It is he who directs the Holy Ghost to impregnate Mary - apparently with no reference to the Son - and he who has a voice from Heaven announce at Jesus baptism, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

Jesus invariably addresses the First Person of the Holy Trinity as "Father" and is clearly subject to his authority. ......." etc.
Skyangel
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12/24/2014 6:13:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Pagan trinities.....

http://www.sabbathcovenant.com...
Hinduism

" Idol worship and rituals are at the heart of Hinduism and have tremendous religious significance. All Hindu deities are themselves symbols of the abstract Absolute, and point to a particular aspect of the Brahman. The Hindu Trinity (Trimurti) is represented by three godheads: Brahma - the creator, Vishnu - the protector and Shiva - the destroyer.

The Hindu trinity is of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. They are respectively the creator, preserver and destroyer of the universe. They are also aligned as the transcendent Godhead, Shiva, the cosmic lord, Vishnu and the cosmic mind, Brahma. In this regard they are called Sat-Tat-Aum, the Being, the Thatness or immanence and the Word or holy spirit. This is much like the Christian trinity of God as the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. The trinity represents the Divine in its threefold nature and function. Each aspect of the trinity contains and includes the others.

Each God in the trinity has his consort. To Brahma is Saraswati, the Goddess of knowledge. For Vishnu is Lakshmi, the Goddess of love, beauty and delight. For Shiva is Kali (Parvati) , the Goddess of power, destruction and transformation. These are the three main forms of the Goddess, as Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are the three main forms of the God. The three Goddesses are often worshipped in their own right as well as along with their spouses."
PGA
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12/26/2014 1:25:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 3:15:11 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/22/2014 2:00:19 AM, PGA wrote:
At 12/22/2014 1:15:46 AM, Skyangel wrote:

You confuse the Creator with the creation. The biblical God transcends and is distinct from His creation. It is made up of time, space and matter whereas He is not. Pantheism on the other hand has the creation as being God.

I am not confused. You are the one separating creation from an invisible supernatural entity which exists only in human imagination. That "entity" is basically the power/energy which animates creation. That energy/power is within the creation itself not something separate outside of the creation. The energy and power ( spirit) which animates you is within you not outside of you.

Who has revealed this to you?

What makes you believe God transcends time space and matter?

The Bible says He created it. If He created it then He was before it. His word is my highest court of appeal.

God is Time.

No He is not. God transcends time. He is before all things.

Colossians 1:16-17 (NASB)
16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities"all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.


Rev 22;13 says he is the beginning and the end. If that does not refer to time what does it refer to? Time exists within eternity. It is ultimately infinite. Time as a whole is eternal. God is eternal.

He is the beginning and end in the sense that all things created have their beginning and end in Him.

God is also space in the sense of being above all through all and in all ( Eph 4:6)..

No, time, space and matter have their beginning in Him.

Space is certainly above all things, through all things and in all things. So is energy. So are atoms which are apparently 99.999% space.
God is also matter in the sense of manifesting as all kinds of matter. Do you need a list of all the material visible ways God manifested himself in the bible stories?

No, you are confusing the Creator with the creation. They are separate.

The supernatural being and all things are one. Needless to say, if all things are singular, how can they be a plurality? In other words, how can they be things? I believe the answer lies (for me, at least) in the belief that the invisible supernatural entity is a mystery, an enigma, a puzzle, a paradox. For me, The invisible supernatural being is ex uno, plures (out of one, many.)

God is one and He is many. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three distinct Beings yet they are the one true God - eternal, unchanging, the same in unity and essence.

God is certainly many things but far more than just three things, three members or three persons. It is a corporate infinite and eternal body consisting of innumerable members.

The concept of the one and many is a big topic.

1 Cor 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

A comparison between the church and Christ. Many members make up the one body of believers yet they are a unity, being one body of believers in Christ.

Energy is not God. Energy by itself lacks intent and agency to do anything. Intent and agency come from being.

You are basically just a ball of energy. Do you lack intent and agency to do anything? If you don't, you are living proof that energy does not lack intent and agency.

You assume that all I am is energy and that energy without mind directing that energy is able to do anything.

"Being" simply means exiting. Energy has always existed according to scientists. It apparently cannot be created or destroyed. Therefore whatever energy exists can never be increased or decreased.

Your comment might make some kind of sense if you interpret God as a supernatural being but it makes no sense at all if you interpret God as a personification of Energy.
All things actually are energy. Everything that exists is made of the same "stuff"
Pantheism is about a supernatural entity being one with his creation. I am not a pantheist. I do not believe in any supernatural entities at all.
I believe God is a personification of energy and everything that exists is a manifestation of energy.
You asked "if all things are singular, how can they be a plurality?"
For me that is easy to figure out. It is like having a paddock filled with sheep. They are all single sheep and they are also a corporate body of sheep or a plurality of sheep.
Energy is still all the same energy regardless of how many forms it manifests through.
It is one energy in many forms. That is how it can be one and many at the same time. It's not that hard to solve the puzzle.

For me the whole concept of God being a trinity is ludicrous simply because in my mind, that concept limits Energy to only three forms.

I don't think your definition of Pantheism meets the standard definition of what it means. In pantheism all is one and one is all. That would make you and everything else, including a slab of wood God. If you are God then show me you all all powerful.

You don't seem to understand that a slab of wood alone is not God neither is any other single object. God is not a single object or individual entity. God is the corporate body of everything in existence. No single object or person is God any more than you are your whole family. The word God is like the word family. It consists of far more than one individual and also far more than three individuals. It consists of innumerable members for all eternity. It is ONE BODY of MANY members. That refers to a corporate body not one body of one individual or some small "club of authority" consisting of only three persons.

You confuse the creation with the Creator. The two are not the same. The Creator existed, then He created the physical creation.

"All power" is not contained in one individual. "All power" is a combination of all "the powers that be" in the universe.

Intent and agency come from person. The universe is not person.

Each individual is like a drop of water in the ocean which is also water. You are asking one drop of water to prove it has the same power as all the water that exists. Obviously it does not. You are being illogical and obviously do not comprehend the concept of ALL power at all.
You are imagining God as a single individual which is an incorrect concept. God is ALL power/ energy which exists. God is not a supernatural entity which owns all the power that exists.

You are imagining God as nothing more that the totality of the universe whereas the Bible reveals He existed before He created the universe. You imagine that all there is is the natural, that nothing exists outside of it.

I am merely a tiny piece of that power/ energy the same as if I was a drop of water in the ocean. I am not all the energy in existence. I am merely one atom in the corporate body of God. That is how insignificant and invisible I really am in the big picture.
The only power I have is the power you believe I have.
I have the power to wake you out of sleep if you ever want to be woken up but I would need to be close enough to you to make a lot of noise or annoy the heck out of you till you stop dreaming.

I see you as being so far out of correctly interpreting His word that it would take a lot of time and effort to undermine your presuppositions. I don't know that I want to spend that much time on this particular field right now. Let me think about it.

Peter