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Why Children Should Not Study The Bible

ChristianPunk
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12/22/2014 11:30:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
There are reasons we have crazy people in this world and that is due to bible thumping indoctrination. We force the religion of Jesus onto children with nothing but fear and bigotry these days with just a pinch of love. If we were to let children study the bible in full, they'd be like Westboro Baptist Church and reminisce in the gore of it.

Such as sexual scenes including the part where Lot impregnates his daughters and a group of men gang bang a concubine who was given over. The concubine also gets chopped into pieces.

Hypocrisy can be found with Jesus expressing love thy neighbor and thou shall not kill but the end of the Ten Mina's suggests that if a king has people who don't wont to serve him then they should be killed, or Matthew 18:6 which says if one causes children to stumble it would be better if they had a millstone hanged around his neck and drowned in the ocean.

Also violence of war and gore is all over the Old Testament and in the crucifixion account.

So if you approve of this, you approve of children watching R rated movies with porno shots and loads of blood and gore.

Point of this post, don't introduce religion to children at a young age or they'll grow up taking it literally to the point they go away from the faith your raising them in or they'll end up in headlines with murder on his rap sheet.

Let the comments begin.
jodybirdy
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12/22/2014 11:42:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 11:30:21 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
There are reasons we have crazy people in this world and that is due to bible thumping indoctrination. We force the religion of Jesus onto children with nothing but fear and bigotry these days with just a pinch of love. If we were to let children study the bible in full, they'd be like Westboro Baptist Church and reminisce in the gore of it.

Such as sexual scenes including the part where Lot impregnates his daughters and a group of men gang bang a concubine who was given over. The concubine also gets chopped into pieces.

Hypocrisy can be found with Jesus expressing love thy neighbor and thou shall not kill but the end of the Ten Mina's suggests that if a king has people who don't wont to serve him then they should be killed, or Matthew 18:6 which says if one causes children to stumble it would be better if they had a millstone hanged around his neck and drowned in the ocean.

Also violence of war and gore is all over the Old Testament and in the crucifixion account.

So if you approve of this, you approve of children watching R rated movies with porno shots and loads of blood and gore.

Point of this post, don't introduce religion to children at a young age or they'll grow up taking it literally to the point they go away from the faith your raising them in or they'll end up in headlines with murder on his rap sheet.

Let the comments begin.

How about the the story of Noah's Ark commonly taught in Sunday school? God flooded the whole world to kill all the people except for Noah and his family, and of course two of each animal, That's the stuff nightmares are made of. Or that the devil is real! Or that Jesus was beaten and hung on a cross to die because all people are bad. Children don't need that. They already have monsters under their beds without having mom and dad encourage irrational fears.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
ChristianPunk
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12/22/2014 11:46:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 11:42:50 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 12/22/2014 11:30:21 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
There are reasons we have crazy people in this world and that is due to bible thumping indoctrination. We force the religion of Jesus onto children with nothing but fear and bigotry these days with just a pinch of love. If we were to let children study the bible in full, they'd be like Westboro Baptist Church and reminisce in the gore of it.

Such as sexual scenes including the part where Lot impregnates his daughters and a group of men gang bang a concubine who was given over. The concubine also gets chopped into pieces.

Hypocrisy can be found with Jesus expressing love thy neighbor and thou shall not kill but the end of the Ten Mina's suggests that if a king has people who don't wont to serve him then they should be killed, or Matthew 18:6 which says if one causes children to stumble it would be better if they had a millstone hanged around his neck and drowned in the ocean.

Also violence of war and gore is all over the Old Testament and in the crucifixion account.

So if you approve of this, you approve of children watching R rated movies with porno shots and loads of blood and gore.

Point of this post, don't introduce religion to children at a young age or they'll grow up taking it literally to the point they go away from the faith your raising them in or they'll end up in headlines with murder on his rap sheet.

Let the comments begin.

How about the the story of Noah's Ark commonly taught in Sunday school? God flooded the whole world to kill all the people except for Noah and his family, and of course two of each animal, That's the stuff nightmares are made of. Or that the devil is real! Or that Jesus was beaten and hung on a cross to die because all people are bad. Children don't need that. They already have monsters under their beds without having mom and dad encourage irrational fears.

I already covered the Jesus part, but Noah is the most common Sunday school lesson. If I had to teach it, I would put some toy soldiers in a bowl (earth) and throw some babie toys in too and dump a bucket of water into it while showing the boat floats, the people may float but are dead.
tabularasa
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12/22/2014 11:52:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The Bible is usually presented differently to children than it is to adults. Most adult Christians do not often read the parts of the Bible that include savage violence. There is an exception for children: even children should be able to read and understand the passages on the crucifixion.

One other exception: the Bible has some violent and grotesque scenes written in its pages...the real world also has much violence. In the sense that the Bible has scenes of death, rape, and incest (etc.) this is only because such scenes are a very real part of human history. I like this about the Bible. It is descriptive of human history in this sense.
1. I already googled it.

2. Give me an argument. Spell it out. "You're wrong," is not an argument.
ChristianPunk
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12/22/2014 12:21:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 11:52:55 AM, tabularasa wrote:
The Bible is usually presented differently to children than it is to adults. Most adult Christians do not often read the parts of the Bible that include savage violence. There is an exception for children: even children should be able to read and understand the passages on the crucifixion.

One other exception: the Bible has some violent and grotesque scenes written in its pages...the real world also has much violence. In the sense that the Bible has scenes of death, rape, and incest (etc.) this is only because such scenes are a very real part of human history. I like this about the Bible. It is descriptive of human history in this sense.

Would you be ok with letting your child see this movie?

https://www.youtube.com...
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
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12/22/2014 12:38:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 11:30:21 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
There are reasons we have crazy people in this world and that is due to bible thumping indoctrination. We force the religion of Jesus onto children with nothing but fear and bigotry these days with just a pinch of love. If we were to let children study the bible in full, they'd be like Westboro Baptist Church and reminisce in the gore of it.

Such as sexual scenes including the part where Lot impregnates his daughters and a group of men gang bang a concubine who was given over. The concubine also gets chopped into pieces.

Hypocrisy can be found with Jesus expressing love thy neighbor and thou shall not kill but the end of the Ten Mina's suggests that if a king has people who don't wont to serve him then they should be killed, or Matthew 18:6 which says if one causes children to stumble it would be better if they had a millstone hanged around his neck and drowned in the ocean.

Also violence of war and gore is all over the Old Testament and in the crucifixion account.

So if you approve of this, you approve of children watching R rated movies with porno shots and loads of blood and gore.

Point of this post, don't introduce religion to children at a young age or they'll grow up taking it literally to the point they go away from the faith your raising them in or they'll end up in headlines with murder on his rap sheet.

Let the comments begin.

https://www.youtube.com... reading bible stories to children...
Never fart near dog
Kyle_the_Heretic
Posts: 748
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12/22/2014 12:51:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 11:30:21 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
There are reasons we have crazy people in this world and that is due to bible thumping indoctrination. We force the religion of Jesus onto children with nothing but fear and bigotry these days with just a pinch of love. If we were to let children study the bible in full, they'd be like Westboro Baptist Church and reminisce in the gore of it.

Such as sexual scenes including the part where Lot impregnates his daughters and a group of men gang bang a concubine who was given over. The concubine also gets chopped into pieces.

Hypocrisy can be found with Jesus expressing love thy neighbor and thou shall not kill but the end of the Ten Mina's suggests that if a king has people who don't wont to serve him then they should be killed, or Matthew 18:6 which says if one causes children to stumble it would be better if they had a millstone hanged around his neck and drowned in the ocean.

Also violence of war and gore is all over the Old Testament and in the crucifixion account.

So if you approve of this, you approve of children watching R rated movies with porno shots and loads of blood and gore.

Point of this post, don't introduce religion to children at a young age or they'll grow up taking it literally to the point they go away from the faith your raising them in or they'll end up in headlines with murder on his rap sheet.

Let the comments begin.

Much of the human cruelty found in the Bible is a reflection of the human cruelty found in the world. Should we blindfold our children and plug their ears so that they are never subjected to it? How will they cope when the blindfold and ear plugs are finally removed?

If children are unable to deal with the harsher parts of the Bible, is there any reason it can't be watered down for them until they are able to deal with it.

I read the harsh parts of the Bible to my sons when they were children. They are all adults now, courteous, unprejudiced, not judgmental, not arrogant or condescending.

If they were hypocritical snobs, it would have been my fault, not the Bible's fault. I explained that not all people believe in God, and allowed them to choose for themselves. They had long talks with their uncle who was an atheist.

I used examples of harshness in the Bible as what not to be.

I didn't strangle them with a controlling leash; I gave them complete freedom. But I also taught them what I believed.

Despite being subject to the harsh realities of the Bible, my sons are all good, stable, well-liked young men. And yes, they still read the Bible.

The Bible doesn't twist children's minds anymore than the newspaper does. Twisted adults twist children's minds.
Thinking is extremely taxing on the gullible, and it takes hours to clear the smoke.
ChristianPunk
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12/22/2014 1:02:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 12:51:58 PM, Kyle_the_Heretic wrote:
At 12/22/2014 11:30:21 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
There are reasons we have crazy people in this world and that is due to bible thumping indoctrination. We force the religion of Jesus onto children with nothing but fear and bigotry these days with just a pinch of love. If we were to let children study the bible in full, they'd be like Westboro Baptist Church and reminisce in the gore of it.

Such as sexual scenes including the part where Lot impregnates his daughters and a group of men gang bang a concubine who was given over. The concubine also gets chopped into pieces.

Hypocrisy can be found with Jesus expressing love thy neighbor and thou shall not kill but the end of the Ten Mina's suggests that if a king has people who don't wont to serve him then they should be killed, or Matthew 18:6 which says if one causes children to stumble it would be better if they had a millstone hanged around his neck and drowned in the ocean.

Also violence of war and gore is all over the Old Testament and in the crucifixion account.

So if you approve of this, you approve of children watching R rated movies with porno shots and loads of blood and gore.

Point of this post, don't introduce religion to children at a young age or they'll grow up taking it literally to the point they go away from the faith your raising them in or they'll end up in headlines with murder on his rap sheet.

Let the comments begin.

Much of the human cruelty found in the Bible is a reflection of the human cruelty found in the world. Should we blindfold our children and plug their ears so that they are never subjected to it? How will they cope when the blindfold and ear plugs are finally removed?

If children are unable to deal with the harsher parts of the Bible, is there any reason it can't be watered down for them until they are able to deal with it.

I read the harsh parts of the Bible to my sons when they were children. They are all adults now, courteous, unprejudiced, not judgmental, not arrogant or condescending.

If they were hypocritical snobs, it would have been my fault, not the Bible's fault. I explained that not all people believe in God, and allowed them to choose for themselves. They had long talks with their uncle who was an atheist.

I used examples of harshness in the Bible as what not to be.

I didn't strangle them with a controlling leash; I gave them complete freedom. But I also taught them what I believed.

Despite being subject to the harsh realities of the Bible, my sons are all good, stable, well-liked young men. And yes, they still read the Bible.

The Bible doesn't twist children's minds anymore than the newspaper does. Twisted adults twist children's minds.

If I teach the bible to my children then I have no problem with seeing movies of blood, gore and sex which depicts real world events based on circumstances in the plot.
Kyle_the_Heretic
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12/22/2014 1:06:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 1:02:19 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:

If I teach the bible to my children then I have no problem with seeing movies of blood, gore and sex which depicts real world events based on circumstances in the plot.

Sounds like a personal problem.
Thinking is extremely taxing on the gullible, and it takes hours to clear the smoke.
ChristianPunk
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12/22/2014 1:25:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 1:06:32 PM, Kyle_the_Heretic wrote:
At 12/22/2014 1:02:19 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:

If I teach the bible to my children then I have no problem with seeing movies of blood, gore and sex which depicts real world events based on circumstances in the plot.

Sounds like a personal problem.

What do you mean? It's the same sense of reality as in the bible.
Kyle_the_Heretic
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12/22/2014 1:32:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 1:25:54 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 12/22/2014 1:06:32 PM, Kyle_the_Heretic wrote:
At 12/22/2014 1:02:19 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:

If I teach the bible to my children then I have no problem with seeing movies of blood, gore and sex which depicts real world events based on circumstances in the plot.

Sounds like a personal problem.

What do you mean? It's the same sense of reality as in the bible.

If you teach the Bible to your children, then you have no problem with seeing movies of blood, gore and sex. Okay, that's you. Do you believe that applies to everyone?

Harsh reality happens. If you know how to stop it, by all means do so, I surely won't stand in your way. If you don't want to subject your children to harsh reality, don't. I did, and as I stated, they're fine, so don't try to convince me that it's detrimental to all children.
Thinking is extremely taxing on the gullible, and it takes hours to clear the smoke.
ChristianPunk
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12/22/2014 1:46:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 1:32:31 PM, Kyle_the_Heretic wrote:
At 12/22/2014 1:25:54 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 12/22/2014 1:06:32 PM, Kyle_the_Heretic wrote:
At 12/22/2014 1:02:19 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:

If I teach the bible to my children then I have no problem with seeing movies of blood, gore and sex which depicts real world events based on circumstances in the plot.

Sounds like a personal problem.

What do you mean? It's the same sense of reality as in the bible.

If you teach the Bible to your children, then you have no problem with seeing movies of blood, gore and sex. Okay, that's you. Do you believe that applies to everyone?

Harsh reality happens. If you know how to stop it, by all means do so, I surely won't stand in your way. If you don't want to subject your children to harsh reality, don't. I did, and as I stated, they're fine, so don't try to convince me that it's detrimental to all children.

I personally believe in teaching the bible at its fullest, but I will also teach Genesis 1-11 is fiction and not all of the bible is literal.
Emilrose
Posts: 2,479
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12/22/2014 1:54:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 11:42:50 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 12/22/2014 11:30:21 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
There are reasons we have crazy people in this world and that is due to bible thumping indoctrination. We force the religion of Jesus onto children with nothing but fear and bigotry these days with just a pinch of love. If we were to let children study the bible in full, they'd be like Westboro Baptist Church and reminisce in the gore of it.

Such as sexual scenes including the part where Lot impregnates his daughters and a group of men gang bang a concubine who was given over. The concubine also gets chopped into pieces.

Hypocrisy can be found with Jesus expressing love thy neighbor and thou shall not kill but the end of the Ten Mina's suggests that if a king has people who don't wont to serve him then they should be killed, or Matthew 18:6 which says if one causes children to stumble it would be better if they had a millstone hanged around his neck and drowned in the ocean.

Also violence of war and gore is all over the Old Testament and in the crucifixion account.

So if you approve of this, you approve of children watching R rated movies with porno shots and loads of blood and gore.

Point of this post, don't introduce religion to children at a young age or they'll grow up taking it literally to the point they go away from the faith your raising them in or they'll end up in headlines with murder on his rap sheet.

Let the comments begin.

How about the the story of Noah's Ark commonly taught in Sunday school? God flooded the whole world to kill all the people except for Noah and his family, and of course two of each animal, That's the stuff nightmares are made of. Or that the devil is real! Or that Jesus was beaten and hung on a cross to die because all people are bad. Children don't need that. They already have monsters under their beds without having mom and dad encourage irrational fears.

Strange that the story of Noah's Ark (from the *Jewish* perspective) never once bothered me as a child. Fact is children in general are exposed to wide variety of things that could potentially have a negative influence in them--why only single out biblical stories? Besides that, it's not the story of the Ark or Jesus are conveyed to children in the way you've described.
Commentator on a picture with David Cameron and a Cat: 'Amazing what you can achieve with photoshop these days. I'm sure that used to be a pig.'

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Vox_Veritas
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12/22/2014 2:07:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Thus sayeth AtheistPunk.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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12/22/2014 2:09:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 1:54:35 PM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/22/2014 11:42:50 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 12/22/2014 11:30:21 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
There are reasons we have crazy people in this world and that is due to bible thumping indoctrination. We force the religion of Jesus onto children with nothing but fear and bigotry these days with just a pinch of love. If we were to let children study the bible in full, they'd be like Westboro Baptist Church and reminisce in the gore of it.

Such as sexual scenes including the part where Lot impregnates his daughters and a group of men gang bang a concubine who was given over. The concubine also gets chopped into pieces.

Hypocrisy can be found with Jesus expressing love thy neighbor and thou shall not kill but the end of the Ten Mina's suggests that if a king has people who don't wont to serve him then they should be killed, or Matthew 18:6 which says if one causes children to stumble it would be better if they had a millstone hanged around his neck and drowned in the ocean.

Also violence of war and gore is all over the Old Testament and in the crucifixion account.

So if you approve of this, you approve of children watching R rated movies with porno shots and loads of blood and gore.

Point of this post, don't introduce religion to children at a young age or they'll grow up taking it literally to the point they go away from the faith your raising them in or they'll end up in headlines with murder on his rap sheet.

Let the comments begin.

How about the the story of Noah's Ark commonly taught in Sunday school? God flooded the whole world to kill all the people except for Noah and his family, and of course two of each animal, That's the stuff nightmares are made of. Or that the devil is real! Or that Jesus was beaten and hung on a cross to die because all people are bad. Children don't need that. They already have monsters under their beds without having mom and dad encourage irrational fears.

Strange that the story of Noah's Ark (from the *Jewish* perspective) never once bothered me as a child. Fact is children in general are exposed to wide variety of things that could potentially have a negative influence in them--why only single out biblical stories? Besides that, it's not the story of the Ark or Jesus are conveyed to children in the way you've described.

Why? Because religion tends to touch a very core nerve for children considering the adults around them believe in metaphysical things, especially Satan and an angry God. It eventually creates adults with irrational fears. There is no Satan, no angels or demons, no angry God, and no afterlife in heaven or in hell. It isn't real. It's shocking to hear someone say it if you were taught as a child that it's all real by your parents, but I'm speaking the truth.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
Emilrose
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12/22/2014 2:12:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 2:07:03 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Thus sayeth AtheistPunk.

Exactly ^^
Commentator on a picture with David Cameron and a Cat: 'Amazing what you can achieve with photoshop these days. I'm sure that used to be a pig.'

Commentator on Hillary Clinton: 'If Clinton is now what passes for progressive, maybe this country deserves Trump.'

Commentator on British parliament: 'All that talent in one place, where is Ebola when you need it?'

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Kyle_the_Heretic
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12/22/2014 2:13:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 1:46:49 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 12/22/2014 1:32:31 PM, Kyle_the_Heretic wrote:
At 12/22/2014 1:25:54 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 12/22/2014 1:06:32 PM, Kyle_the_Heretic wrote:
At 12/22/2014 1:02:19 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:

If I teach the bible to my children then I have no problem with seeing movies of blood, gore and sex which depicts real world events based on circumstances in the plot.

Sounds like a personal problem.

What do you mean? It's the same sense of reality as in the bible.

If you teach the Bible to your children, then you have no problem with seeing movies of blood, gore and sex. Okay, that's you. Do you believe that applies to everyone?

Harsh reality happens. If you know how to stop it, by all means do so, I surely won't stand in your way. If you don't want to subject your children to harsh reality, don't. I did, and as I stated, they're fine, so don't try to convince me that it's detrimental to all children.

I personally believe in teaching the bible at its fullest, but I will also teach Genesis 1-11 is fiction and not all of the bible is literal.

Okay.
Thinking is extremely taxing on the gullible, and it takes hours to clear the smoke.
Emilrose
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12/22/2014 2:24:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 2:09:08 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 12/22/2014 1:54:35 PM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/22/2014 11:42:50 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 12/22/2014 11:30:21 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
There are reasons we have crazy people in this world and that is due to bible thumping indoctrination. We force the religion of Jesus onto children with nothing but fear and bigotry these days with just a pinch of love. If we were to let children study the bible in full, they'd be like Westboro Baptist Church and reminisce in the gore of it.

Such as sexual scenes including the part where Lot impregnates his daughters and a group of men gang bang a concubine who was given over. The concubine also gets chopped into pieces.

Hypocrisy can be found with Jesus expressing love thy neighbor and thou shall not kill but the end of the Ten Mina's suggests that if a king has people who don't wont to serve him then they should be killed, or Matthew 18:6 which says if one causes children to stumble it would be better if they had a millstone hanged around his neck and drowned in the ocean.

Also violence of war and gore is all over the Old Testament and in the crucifixion account.

So if you approve of this, you approve of children watching R rated movies with porno shots and loads of blood and gore.

Point of this post, don't introduce religion to children at a young age or they'll grow up taking it literally to the point they go away from the faith your raising them in or they'll end up in headlines with murder on his rap sheet.

Let the comments begin.

How about the the story of Noah's Ark commonly taught in Sunday school? God flooded the whole world to kill all the people except for Noah and his family, and of course two of each animal, That's the stuff nightmares are made of. Or that the devil is real! Or that Jesus was beaten and hung on a cross to die because all people are bad. Children don't need that. They already have monsters under their beds without having mom and dad encourage irrational fears.

Strange that the story of Noah's Ark (from the *Jewish* perspective) never once bothered me as a child. Fact is children in general are exposed to wide variety of things that could potentially have a negative influence in them--why only single out biblical stories? Besides that, it's not the story of the Ark or Jesus are conveyed to children in the way you've described.

Why? Because religion tends to touch a very core nerve for children considering the adults around them believe in metaphysical things, especially Satan and an angry God. It eventually creates adults with irrational fears. There is no Satan, no angels or demons, no angry God, and no afterlife in heaven or in hell. It isn't real. It's shocking to hear someone say it if you were taught as a child that it's all real by your parents, but I'm speaking the truth.

Not exactly. As I said, biblical stories are generally *not* conveyed to children in such a manner. Noah's Ark for example gives very little (if any) suggestion of G-d punishing mankind and instead all emphasis is placed on Noah and the ark itself--a lot of it revolves around imagery rather than explicit details in children's religious literature. As for there being no Satan, Angels, or G-d..do you have conclusive proof of that? How do know definitively if they do not exist? In terms of science it cannot be proved or disproved. Only personal perspective and "belief" can dictate to whether one sees them as existing or not.
Commentator on a picture with David Cameron and a Cat: 'Amazing what you can achieve with photoshop these days. I'm sure that used to be a pig.'

Commentator on Hillary Clinton: 'If Clinton is now what passes for progressive, maybe this country deserves Trump.'

Commentator on British parliament: 'All that talent in one place, where is Ebola when you need it?'

John Kerry on words: 'These aren't just words, folks.'
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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12/22/2014 2:36:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 2:24:16 PM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/22/2014 2:09:08 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 12/22/2014 1:54:35 PM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/22/2014 11:42:50 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 12/22/2014 11:30:21 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
There are reasons we have crazy people in this world and that is due to bible thumping indoctrination. We force the religion of Jesus onto children with nothing but fear and bigotry these days with just a pinch of love. If we were to let children study the bible in full, they'd be like Westboro Baptist Church and reminisce in the gore of it.

Such as sexual scenes including the part where Lot impregnates his daughters and a group of men gang bang a concubine who was given over. The concubine also gets chopped into pieces.

Hypocrisy can be found with Jesus expressing love thy neighbor and thou shall not kill but the end of the Ten Mina's suggests that if a king has people who don't wont to serve him then they should be killed, or Matthew 18:6 which says if one causes children to stumble it would be better if they had a millstone hanged around his neck and drowned in the ocean.

Also violence of war and gore is all over the Old Testament and in the crucifixion account.

So if you approve of this, you approve of children watching R rated movies with porno shots and loads of blood and gore.

Point of this post, don't introduce religion to children at a young age or they'll grow up taking it literally to the point they go away from the faith your raising them in or they'll end up in headlines with murder on his rap sheet.

Let the comments begin.

How about the the story of Noah's Ark commonly taught in Sunday school? God flooded the whole world to kill all the people except for Noah and his family, and of course two of each animal, That's the stuff nightmares are made of. Or that the devil is real! Or that Jesus was beaten and hung on a cross to die because all people are bad. Children don't need that. They already have monsters under their beds without having mom and dad encourage irrational fears.

Strange that the story of Noah's Ark (from the *Jewish* perspective) never once bothered me as a child. Fact is children in general are exposed to wide variety of things that could potentially have a negative influence in them--why only single out biblical stories? Besides that, it's not the story of the Ark or Jesus are conveyed to children in the way you've described.

Why? Because religion tends to touch a very core nerve for children considering the adults around them believe in metaphysical things, especially Satan and an angry God. It eventually creates adults with irrational fears. There is no Satan, no angels or demons, no angry God, and no afterlife in heaven or in hell. It isn't real. It's shocking to hear someone say it if you were taught as a child that it's all real by your parents, but I'm speaking the truth.

Not exactly. As I said, biblical stories are generally *not* conveyed to children in such a manner. Noah's Ark for example gives very little (if any) suggestion of G-d punishing mankind and instead all emphasis is placed on Noah and the ark itself--a lot of it revolves around imagery rather than explicit details in children's religious literature. As for there being no Satan, Angels, or G-d..do you have conclusive proof of that? How do know definitively if they do not exist? In terms of science it cannot be proved or disproved. Only personal perspective and "belief" can dictate to whether one sees them as existing or not.

Children have very good imaginations and they hear much more than they are given credit for. I have 4 kids, plus 2 step kids, totaling 6. I know kids. As for conclusive proof, where is your proof that these things do exist outside of your parents and your rabbi telling you since you were old enough to listen? Are you sure that it isn't just a part of your psyche since childhood and that is the only thing that supports your belief?
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
Emilrose
Posts: 2,479
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12/22/2014 3:11:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 2:36:25 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 12/22/2014 2:24:16 PM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/22/2014 2:09:08 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 12/22/2014 1:54:35 PM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/22/2014 11:42:50 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 12/22/2014 11:30:21 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
There are reasons we have crazy people in this world and that is due to bible thumping indoctrination. We force the religion of Jesus onto children with nothing but fear and bigotry these days with just a pinch of love. If we were to let children study the bible in full, they'd be like Westboro Baptist Church and reminisce in the gore of it.

Such as sexual scenes including the part where Lot impregnates his daughters and a group of men gang bang a concubine who was given over. The concubine also gets chopped into pieces.

Hypocrisy can be found with Jesus expressing love thy neighbor and thou shall not kill but the end of the Ten Mina's suggests that if a king has people who don't wont to serve him then they should be killed, or Matthew 18:6 which says if one causes children to stumble it would be better if they had a millstone hanged around his neck and drowned in the ocean.

Also violence of war and gore is all over the Old Testament and in the crucifixion account.

So if you approve of this, you approve of children watching R rated movies with porno shots and loads of blood and gore.

Point of this post, don't introduce religion to children at a young age or they'll grow up taking it literally to the point they go away from the faith your raising them in or they'll end up in headlines with murder on his rap sheet.

Let the comments begin.

How about the the story of Noah's Ark commonly taught in Sunday school? God flooded the whole world to kill all the people except for Noah and his family, and of course two of each animal, That's the stuff nightmares are made of. Or that the devil is real! Or that Jesus was beaten and hung on a cross to die because all people are bad. Children don't need that. They already have monsters under their beds without having mom and dad encourage irrational fears.

Strange that the story of Noah's Ark (from the *Jewish* perspective) never once bothered me as a child. Fact is children in general are exposed to wide variety of things that could potentially have a negative influence in them--why only single out biblical stories? Besides that, it's not the story of the Ark or Jesus are conveyed to children in the way you've described.

Why? Because religion tends to touch a very core nerve for children considering the adults around them believe in metaphysical things, especially Satan and an angry God. It eventually creates adults with irrational fears. There is no Satan, no angels or demons, no angry God, and no afterlife in heaven or in hell. It isn't real. It's shocking to hear someone say it if you were taught as a child that it's all real by your parents, but I'm speaking the truth.

Not exactly. As I said, biblical stories are generally *not* conveyed to children in such a manner. Noah's Ark for example gives very little (if any) suggestion of G-d punishing mankind and instead all emphasis is placed on Noah and the ark itself--a lot of it revolves around imagery rather than explicit details in children's religious literature. As for there being no Satan, Angels, or G-d..do you have conclusive proof of that? How do know definitively if they do not exist? In terms of science it cannot be proved or disproved. Only personal perspective and "belief" can dictate to whether one sees them as existing or not.

Children have very good imaginations and they hear much more than they are given credit for. I have 4 kids, plus 2 step kids, totaling 6. I know kids. As for conclusive proof, where is your proof that these things do exist outside of your parents and your rabbi telling you since you were old enough to listen? Are you sure that it isn't just a part of your psyche since childhood and that is the only thing that supports your belief?

Again, it seems you're somewhat overestimating the impact that religious stories have on children. Unlike with adults who study religious literature, it is very simplified. Taking the example of Noah's Ark, what could children possibly imagine about a man receiving animals into an ark? Because that's practically all that is referenced. Specific details about "why" the flood was created are rarely included. Naturally there isn't any definitive evidence that such things do not exist and it would be fallacious for atheists to claim otherwise. My own "proof" comes from the scriptures and what I have learned through the Torah and Tanakh.
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Commentator on Hillary Clinton: 'If Clinton is now what passes for progressive, maybe this country deserves Trump.'

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jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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12/22/2014 3:45:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 3:11:49 PM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/22/2014 2:36:25 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 12/22/2014 2:24:16 PM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/22/2014 2:09:08 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 12/22/2014 1:54:35 PM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/22/2014 11:42:50 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 12/22/2014 11:30:21 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
There are reasons we have crazy people in this world and that is due to bible thumping indoctrination. We force the religion of Jesus onto children with nothing but fear and bigotry these days with just a pinch of love. If we were to let children study the bible in full, they'd be like Westboro Baptist Church and reminisce in the gore of it.

Such as sexual scenes including the part where Lot impregnates his daughters and a group of men gang bang a concubine who was given over. The concubine also gets chopped into pieces.

Hypocrisy can be found with Jesus expressing love thy neighbor and thou shall not kill but the end of the Ten Mina's suggests that if a king has people who don't wont to serve him then they should be killed, or Matthew 18:6 which says if one causes children to stumble it would be better if they had a millstone hanged around his neck and drowned in the ocean.

Also violence of war and gore is all over the Old Testament and in the crucifixion account.

So if you approve of this, you approve of children watching R rated movies with porno shots and loads of blood and gore.

Point of this post, don't introduce religion to children at a young age or they'll grow up taking it literally to the point they go away from the faith your raising them in or they'll end up in headlines with murder on his rap sheet.

Let the comments begin.

How about the the story of Noah's Ark commonly taught in Sunday school? God flooded the whole world to kill all the people except for Noah and his family, and of course two of each animal, That's the stuff nightmares are made of. Or that the devil is real! Or that Jesus was beaten and hung on a cross to die because all people are bad. Children don't need that. They already have monsters under their beds without having mom and dad encourage irrational fears.

Strange that the story of Noah's Ark (from the *Jewish* perspective) never once bothered me as a child. Fact is children in general are exposed to wide variety of things that could potentially have a negative influence in them--why only single out biblical stories? Besides that, it's not the story of the Ark or Jesus are conveyed to children in the way you've described.

Why? Because religion tends to touch a very core nerve for children considering the adults around them believe in metaphysical things, especially Satan and an angry God. It eventually creates adults with irrational fears. There is no Satan, no angels or demons, no angry God, and no afterlife in heaven or in hell. It isn't real. It's shocking to hear someone say it if you were taught as a child that it's all real by your parents, but I'm speaking the truth.

Not exactly. As I said, biblical stories are generally *not* conveyed to children in such a manner. Noah's Ark for example gives very little (if any) suggestion of G-d punishing mankind and instead all emphasis is placed on Noah and the ark itself--a lot of it revolves around imagery rather than explicit details in children's religious literature. As for there being no Satan, Angels, or G-d..do you have conclusive proof of that? How do know definitively if they do not exist? In terms of science it cannot be proved or disproved. Only personal perspective and "belief" can dictate to whether one sees them as existing or not.

Children have very good imaginations and they hear much more than they are given credit for. I have 4 kids, plus 2 step kids, totaling 6. I know kids. As for conclusive proof, where is your proof that these things do exist outside of your parents and your rabbi telling you since you were old enough to listen? Are you sure that it isn't just a part of your psyche since childhood and that is the only thing that supports your belief?

Again, it seems you're somewhat overestimating the impact that religious stories have on children. Unlike with adults who study religious literature, it is very simplified. Taking the example of Noah's Ark, what could children possibly imagine about a man receiving animals into an ark? Because that's practically all that is referenced. Specific details about "why" the flood was created are rarely included. Naturally there isn't any definitive evidence that such things do not exist and it would be fallacious for atheists to claim otherwise. My own "proof" comes from the scriptures and what I have learned through the Torah and Tanakh.

I'm not sure what your experience is with young children. When my oldest was in kindergarten we sent her to the most top rated Episcopal girl's school in Memphis to avoid the public schools and please the grandparents. She came home one night concerned about Noah's ark. She told me that Noah and his family gathered all the animals together and got onto the ark before the whole world flooded with water. Then she asked me what happened to the rest of the people. Point in case and that experience is exactly why I brought it up in post #2. Kids are not stupid and they have the ability to reason. Her teachers didn't convey it in such a terrible way, my daughter simply filled in the blanks.

As for your beliefs, those are your own. As are mine. The difference is that you promote believing in the unseen without question and I promote questioning whether or not the unseen exists based on the validity of the evidence.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
tabularasa
Posts: 200
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12/22/2014 4:31:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 12:21:56 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 12/22/2014 11:52:55 AM, tabularasa wrote:
The Bible is usually presented differently to children than it is to adults. Most adult Christians do not often read the parts of the Bible that include savage violence. There is an exception for children: even children should be able to read and understand the passages on the crucifixion.

One other exception: the Bible has some violent and grotesque scenes written in its pages...the real world also has much violence. In the sense that the Bible has scenes of death, rape, and incest (etc.) this is only because such scenes are a very real part of human history. I like this about the Bible. It is descriptive of human history in this sense.

Would you be ok with letting your child see this movie?

https://www.youtube.com...

Not a small child, but perhaps a high school student.
1. I already googled it.

2. Give me an argument. Spell it out. "You're wrong," is not an argument.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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12/22/2014 4:31:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 4:31:02 PM, tabularasa wrote:
At 12/22/2014 12:21:56 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 12/22/2014 11:52:55 AM, tabularasa wrote:
The Bible is usually presented differently to children than it is to adults. Most adult Christians do not often read the parts of the Bible that include savage violence. There is an exception for children: even children should be able to read and understand the passages on the crucifixion.

One other exception: the Bible has some violent and grotesque scenes written in its pages...the real world also has much violence. In the sense that the Bible has scenes of death, rape, and incest (etc.) this is only because such scenes are a very real part of human history. I like this about the Bible. It is descriptive of human history in this sense.

Would you be ok with letting your child see this movie?

https://www.youtube.com...

Not a small child, but perhaps a high school student.

I'm talking about teaching small children this stuff.
tabularasa
Posts: 200
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12/22/2014 4:35:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 4:31:48 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 12/22/2014 4:31:02 PM, tabularasa wrote:
At 12/22/2014 12:21:56 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 12/22/2014 11:52:55 AM, tabularasa wrote:
The Bible is usually presented differently to children than it is to adults. Most adult Christians do not often read the parts of the Bible that include savage violence. There is an exception for children: even children should be able to read and understand the passages on the crucifixion.

One other exception: the Bible has some violent and grotesque scenes written in its pages...the real world also has much violence. In the sense that the Bible has scenes of death, rape, and incest (etc.) this is only because such scenes are a very real part of human history. I like this about the Bible. It is descriptive of human history in this sense.

Would you be ok with letting your child see this movie?

https://www.youtube.com...

Not a small child, but perhaps a high school student.

I'm talking about teaching small children this stuff.

I don't think that small children should watch the movie for which you provided a link.
1. I already googled it.

2. Give me an argument. Spell it out. "You're wrong," is not an argument.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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12/22/2014 4:36:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 4:35:33 PM, tabularasa wrote:
At 12/22/2014 4:31:48 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 12/22/2014 4:31:02 PM, tabularasa wrote:
At 12/22/2014 12:21:56 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 12/22/2014 11:52:55 AM, tabularasa wrote:
The Bible is usually presented differently to children than it is to adults. Most adult Christians do not often read the parts of the Bible that include savage violence. There is an exception for children: even children should be able to read and understand the passages on the crucifixion.

One other exception: the Bible has some violent and grotesque scenes written in its pages...the real world also has much violence. In the sense that the Bible has scenes of death, rape, and incest (etc.) this is only because such scenes are a very real part of human history. I like this about the Bible. It is descriptive of human history in this sense.

Would you be ok with letting your child see this movie?

https://www.youtube.com...

Not a small child, but perhaps a high school student.

I'm talking about teaching small children this stuff.

I don't think that small children should watch the movie for which you provided a link.

But you'd be ok with them reading mass genocide in the bible?
tabularasa
Posts: 200
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12/22/2014 4:44:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 4:36:29 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 12/22/2014 4:35:33 PM, tabularasa wrote:
At 12/22/2014 4:31:48 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 12/22/2014 4:31:02 PM, tabularasa wrote:
At 12/22/2014 12:21:56 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 12/22/2014 11:52:55 AM, tabularasa wrote:
The Bible is usually presented differently to children than it is to adults. Most adult Christians do not often read the parts of the Bible that include savage violence. There is an exception for children: even children should be able to read and understand the passages on the crucifixion.

One other exception: the Bible has some violent and grotesque scenes written in its pages...the real world also has much violence. In the sense that the Bible has scenes of death, rape, and incest (etc.) this is only because such scenes are a very real part of human history. I like this about the Bible. It is descriptive of human history in this sense.

Would you be ok with letting your child see this movie?

https://www.youtube.com...

Not a small child, but perhaps a high school student.

I'm talking about teaching small children this stuff.

I don't think that small children should watch the movie for which you provided a link.

But you'd be ok with them reading mass genocide in the bible?

No, I believe that the Bible should be presented differently to children than to adults. See my first post in this thread. There are Bibles made for children that do not include the grotesque items that you have mentioned.
1. I already googled it.

2. Give me an argument. Spell it out. "You're wrong," is not an argument.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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12/22/2014 8:00:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 4:44:59 PM, tabularasa wrote:
At 12/22/2014 4:36:29 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 12/22/2014 4:35:33 PM, tabularasa wrote:
At 12/22/2014 4:31:48 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 12/22/2014 4:31:02 PM, tabularasa wrote:
At 12/22/2014 12:21:56 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 12/22/2014 11:52:55 AM, tabularasa wrote:
The Bible is usually presented differently to children than it is to adults. Most adult Christians do not often read the parts of the Bible that include savage violence. There is an exception for children: even children should be able to read and understand the passages on the crucifixion.

One other exception: the Bible has some violent and grotesque scenes written in its pages...the real world also has much violence. In the sense that the Bible has scenes of death, rape, and incest (etc.) this is only because such scenes are a very real part of human history. I like this about the Bible. It is descriptive of human history in this sense.

Would you be ok with letting your child see this movie?

https://www.youtube.com...

Not a small child, but perhaps a high school student.

I'm talking about teaching small children this stuff.

I don't think that small children should watch the movie for which you provided a link.

But you'd be ok with them reading mass genocide in the bible?

No, I believe that the Bible should be presented differently to children than to adults. See my first post in this thread. There are Bibles made for children that do not include the grotesque items that you have mentioned.

How should they be presented to?
tabularasa
Posts: 200
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12/23/2014 9:58:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 8:00:34 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 12/22/2014 4:44:59 PM, tabularasa wrote:
At 12/22/2014 4:36:29 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 12/22/2014 4:35:33 PM, tabularasa wrote:
At 12/22/2014 4:31:48 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 12/22/2014 4:31:02 PM, tabularasa wrote:
At 12/22/2014 12:21:56 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 12/22/2014 11:52:55 AM, tabularasa wrote:
The Bible is usually presented differently to children than it is to adults. Most adult Christians do not often read the parts of the Bible that include savage violence. There is an exception for children: even children should be able to read and understand the passages on the crucifixion.

One other exception: the Bible has some violent and grotesque scenes written in its pages...the real world also has much violence. In the sense that the Bible has scenes of death, rape, and incest (etc.) this is only because such scenes are a very real part of human history. I like this about the Bible. It is descriptive of human history in this sense.

Would you be ok with letting your child see this movie?

https://www.youtube.com...

Not a small child, but perhaps a high school student.

I'm talking about teaching small children this stuff.

I don't think that small children should watch the movie for which you provided a link.

But you'd be ok with them reading mass genocide in the bible?

No, I believe that the Bible should be presented differently to children than to adults. See my first post in this thread. There are Bibles made for children that do not include the grotesque items that you have mentioned.

How should they be presented to?

The stories with incest and genocide should not be presented. The stories without may be presented to them. There is probably an argument that most biblical stories should be presented to children. I do not really care to make the argument because I do not necessarily espouse it.

An example: children do not study the books of Kings. Kings is full of war, genocide, punishment, and death. Children do study the gospel. The gospel does not contain most of these things, except for the crucifixion. I believe children should be taught the crucifixion.

When I was a child, I studied Noah's ark and the sacrifice of Isaac. It did not seem to be too harsh or contradictory to understand.
1. I already googled it.

2. Give me an argument. Spell it out. "You're wrong," is not an argument.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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12/23/2014 10:43:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/23/2014 9:58:07 AM, tabularasa wrote:
At 12/22/2014 8:00:34 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 12/22/2014 4:44:59 PM, tabularasa wrote:
At 12/22/2014 4:36:29 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 12/22/2014 4:35:33 PM, tabularasa wrote:
At 12/22/2014 4:31:48 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 12/22/2014 4:31:02 PM, tabularasa wrote:
At 12/22/2014 12:21:56 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 12/22/2014 11:52:55 AM, tabularasa wrote:
The Bible is usually presented differently to children than it is to adults. Most adult Christians do not often read the parts of the Bible that include savage violence. There is an exception for children: even children should be able to read and understand the passages on the crucifixion.

One other exception: the Bible has some violent and grotesque scenes written in its pages...the real world also has much violence. In the sense that the Bible has scenes of death, rape, and incest (etc.) this is only because such scenes are a very real part of human history. I like this about the Bible. It is descriptive of human history in this sense.

Would you be ok with letting your child see this movie?

https://www.youtube.com...

Not a small child, but perhaps a high school student.

I'm talking about teaching small children this stuff.

I don't think that small children should watch the movie for which you provided a link.

But you'd be ok with them reading mass genocide in the bible?

No, I believe that the Bible should be presented differently to children than to adults. See my first post in this thread. There are Bibles made for children that do not include the grotesque items that you have mentioned.

How should they be presented to?

The stories with incest and genocide should not be presented. The stories without may be presented to them. There is probably an argument that most biblical stories should be presented to children. I do not really care to make the argument because I do not necessarily espouse it.

An example: children do not study the books of Kings. Kings is full of war, genocide, punishment, and death. Children do study the gospel. The gospel does not contain most of these things, except for the crucifixion. I believe children should be taught the crucifixion.

When I was a child, I studied Noah's ark and the sacrifice of Isaac. It did not seem to be too harsh or contradictory to understand.

So you'd let your children know that many boys and girls and infants die in the flood? Let them know they drowned.

You'd also be kind to give them a visual book showing blood and gore for the crucifixion. If you show it with tiny blood, then it puts a sham to Christ's blood being shed.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/23/2014 10:47:44 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/22/2014 11:30:21 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
There are reasons we have crazy people in this world and that is due to bible thumping indoctrination. We force the religion of Jesus onto children with nothing but fear and bigotry these days with just a pinch of love. If we were to let children study the bible in full, they'd be like Westboro Baptist Church and reminisce in the gore of it.

Such as sexual scenes including the part where Lot impregnates his daughters and a group of men gang bang a concubine who was given over. The concubine also gets chopped into pieces.

Hypocrisy can be found with Jesus expressing love thy neighbor and thou shall not kill but the end of the Ten Mina's suggests that if a king has people who don't wont to serve him then they should be killed, or Matthew 18:6 which says if one causes children to stumble it would be better if they had a millstone hanged around his neck and drowned in the ocean.

Also violence of war and gore is all over the Old Testament and in the crucifixion account.

So if you approve of this, you approve of children watching R rated movies with porno shots and loads of blood and gore.

Point of this post, don't introduce religion to children at a young age or they'll grow up taking it literally to the point they go away from the faith your raising them in or they'll end up in headlines with murder on his rap sheet.

Let the comments begin.

None of God's people should have studied the Bible but try tell that to Christians who don't listen to His voice or obey any of His commandments.

Deuteronomy 28
15: "But if you will not obey the voice of the Lord your God or be careful to do all his commandments which I command you this day, then all these curses shall come upon you and overtake you.
16: Cursed shall you be in the city, and cursed shall you be in the field.
17: Cursed shall be your basket and your kneading-trough.
18: cursed shall be the fruit of your body, and the fruit of your ground, the increase of your cattle, and the young of your flock.
19: Cursed shall you be when you come in, and cursed shall you be when you go out.
20: "the Lord will send upon you curses, confusion, and frustration, in all that you undertake to do, until you are destroyed and perish quickly, on account of the evil of your doings, because you have forsaken me.
21: The Lord will make the pestilence cleave to you until he has consumed you off the land which you are entering to take possession of it.
22: The Lord will smite you with consumption, and with fever, inflammation, and fiery heat, and with drought, and with blasting, and with mildew; they shall pursue you until your perish.
23: And the heavens over your head shall be brass, and the earth under you shall be iron.
24: The Lord will make the rain of your land powder and dust; from heaven it shall come down upon you until you are destroyed.