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Predestination

lannan13
Posts: 23,106
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12/25/2014 10:32:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Christians believe that God knows you even before you were made in the womb. Mixed with God's all knowingness from here until the end of time, does that mean that God knows who's going to heaven and who's going to Hell even before they are born?
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If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/25/2014 10:41:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 10:32:22 AM, lannan13 wrote:
Christians believe that God knows you even before you were made in the womb. Mixed with God's all knowingness from here until the end of time, does that mean that God knows who's going to heaven and who's going to Hell even before they are born?

God planned, created and formed everything including all the false ideas of hell, triune gods, bodily resurrections, man ( Jesus ) dying for our sins, Eucharist and water baptism traditions, etc.

He planned the past, present and future before man appeared in the world to observe the illusions that man thought were real. This world full of illusions ( tree of the knowledge of good and evil ) is what kept man from knowing the Truth ( tree of life ).
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/25/2014 10:49:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 10:42:15 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
An omniscient God must know everything. So yes.

Since we're God's thoughts, He should know everything.
lannan13
Posts: 23,106
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12/25/2014 10:58:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 10:49:02 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/25/2014 10:42:15 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
An omniscient God must know everything. So yes.

Since we're God's thoughts, He should know everything.

How do we not know that God is just some computer nerd playing Sims and we're the Sims?
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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lannan13
Posts: 23,106
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12/25/2014 10:58:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 10:42:15 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
An omniscient God must know everything. So yes.

So then the Puritains are correct then?
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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12/25/2014 11:00:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 10:58:41 AM, lannan13 wrote:
At 12/25/2014 10:42:15 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
An omniscient God must know everything. So yes.

So then the Puritains are correct then?

Insofar as it agrees logically.
lannan13
Posts: 23,106
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12/25/2014 11:15:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 11:00:53 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/25/2014 10:58:41 AM, lannan13 wrote:
At 12/25/2014 10:42:15 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
An omniscient God must know everything. So yes.

So then the Puritains are correct then?

Insofar as it agrees logically.

Interesting. If God already knows where we're going then why should we live a life by the Book then? Because if that's the case we should do whatever we like and no mater what it wouldn't affect where we're going.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/25/2014 11:25:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 11:15:20 AM, lannan13 wrote:
At 12/25/2014 11:00:53 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/25/2014 10:58:41 AM, lannan13 wrote:
At 12/25/2014 10:42:15 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
An omniscient God must know everything. So yes.

So then the Puritains are correct then?

Insofar as it agrees logically.

Interesting. If God already knows where we're going then why should we live a life by the Book then? Because if that's the case we should do whatever we like and no mater what it wouldn't affect where we're going.

Man was designed to do whatever God planned for them to do. Man has no decisions to make because all his decisions were already made for him. All man can do is observe himself and his flesh in a dream.
lannan13
Posts: 23,106
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12/25/2014 11:35:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 11:25:53 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/25/2014 11:15:20 AM, lannan13 wrote:
At 12/25/2014 11:00:53 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/25/2014 10:58:41 AM, lannan13 wrote:
At 12/25/2014 10:42:15 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
An omniscient God must know everything. So yes.

So then the Puritains are correct then?

Insofar as it agrees logically.

Interesting. If God already knows where we're going then why should we live a life by the Book then? Because if that's the case we should do whatever we like and no mater what it wouldn't affect where we're going.

Man was designed to do whatever God planned for them to do. Man has no decisions to make because all his decisions were already made for him. All man can do is observe himself and his flesh in a dream.

We are just puppets in this game. Mere figures made to dance to appease the Creator. Those who do not appease the Creator, the Master of the Puppets, shall be thrown into the furnace to provide heat for him so that even if he hates the Puppet then we shall please him weather we like it or not.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/25/2014 11:58:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 11:35:19 AM, lannan13 wrote:
At 12/25/2014 11:25:53 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/25/2014 11:15:20 AM, lannan13 wrote:
At 12/25/2014 11:00:53 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/25/2014 10:58:41 AM, lannan13 wrote:
At 12/25/2014 10:42:15 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
An omniscient God must know everything. So yes.

So then the Puritains are correct then?

Insofar as it agrees logically.

Interesting. If God already knows where we're going then why should we live a life by the Book then? Because if that's the case we should do whatever we like and no mater what it wouldn't affect where we're going.

Man was designed to do whatever God planned for them to do. Man has no decisions to make because all his decisions were already made for him. All man can do is observe himself and his flesh in a dream.

We are just puppets in this game. Mere figures made to dance to appease the Creator. Those who do not appease the Creator, the Master of the Puppets, shall be thrown into the furnace to provide heat for him so that even if he hates the Puppet then we shall please him weather we like it or not.

Religious Christians have told you a lie that there is a hell. They don't know that ALL flesh will perish in this age and be burned up with hot molten lava and that our invisible created existence in God is His thoughts that are converted into invisible vibrations that we know now as information. Each wavelength of energy ( in the vibrations ) is one bit of information. It's like the 0 and a 1 in a binary computer code. These wavelengths of energy is processed by our brain into illusions that we can experience. Our visible brain is not real but our invisible brain is made up of vibrations to make us an invisible character in God's planned program called Eternal Life. So we are just like a computer with a processor. God planned to use the modern technology we have today to teach me exactly how He created us by using these visible objects as analogies ( parables ) to learn who we are within His thoughts.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,322
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12/25/2014 12:02:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 11:15:20 AM, lannan13 wrote:
At 12/25/2014 11:00:53 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/25/2014 10:58:41 AM, lannan13 wrote:
At 12/25/2014 10:42:15 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
An omniscient God must know everything. So yes.

So then the Puritains are correct then?

Insofar as it agrees logically.

Interesting. If God already knows where we're going then why should we live a life by the Book then? Because if that's the case we should do whatever we like and no mater what it wouldn't affect where we're going.

That is correct which is why it is garbage, God didn't "plan" everything, He does not and never did control the mind of men. I can show you in scripture that God does not plan or instigate evil, there is the will of God and there is the will of "man", the will of free creatures. The difference is unity, when we are in the "wiil of God" which simply means obedience we are in unity with His Spirit, when we go outside that will we are operating without God, we "reap what we sow".
Anything outside that will is enemy territory Ephesians 6

10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

God does not control evertyhting that happens on this earth, we were given dominion and free will over our decisions.

God wishes that none should perish, meaning God "predestined" good thing for everyone but it's their choice what to abide in.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,322
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12/25/2014 12:20:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The trap is the misconstrued definition of "omniscience" which is actually not a scriptural term but causes confusion because people automatically think that if God is "omniscient" then that must mean that God has complete control over everything that takes place because He must have known it would happen and allowed it, but that's not true, it doesn't matter what happens in this universe nothing can change the nature of God. God can create free beings and still be God lol, as a matter of fact God can create and have complete control over the universe without manipulating the actions of Humans, that's because our choices don't and will have no bearing on what God is doing.
God doesn't need to know millions of decades ago what we were going to decide to be "all-knowing". God can be completely aware of what is happening without controlling it, it just means there is nothing that can take place without God being aware of it, doesn't mean He directed it. In the same way you can control the environment in your home while you have no control over what your pet decides to do, although you will be aware of it.
It's simple, as free individuals God searches into the hearts of man to find who is willing and who is for real, God can see what our desires are and what we are seeking out.
Matthew 6
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
PGA
Posts: 4,050
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12/25/2014 1:05:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 10:32:22 AM, lannan13 wrote:
Christians believe that God knows you even before you were made in the womb. Mixed with God's all knowingness from here until the end of time, does that mean that God knows who's going to heaven and who's going to Hell even before they are born?

Of course!

Peter
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,641
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12/25/2014 1:57:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 10:32:22 AM, lannan13 wrote:
Christians believe that God knows you even before you were made in the womb. Mixed with God's all knowingness from here until the end of time, does that mean that God knows who's going to heaven and who's going to Hell even before they are born?

Lets' get a handle on a few definitions:

Knowledge: a familiarity, awareness or understanding of someone or something, such as facts, information, descriptions, or skills, which is acquired through experience or education by perceiving, discovering, or learning.

Omniscience: having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things.

Notice that when we use the definition of knowledge to support the definition of omniscience, we find that omniscience, while containing unlimited "knowledge" can only refer to that which is in the past or present, and not in the future. There is no "knowledge" of the future by it's very definition.

As well, there is no mention of any future understanding or knowledge in the definition of omniscience.

Therefore, God does not have knowledge of any future events, He only knows everything about the past and present.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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12/25/2014 2:01:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 1:57:52 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/25/2014 10:32:22 AM, lannan13 wrote:
Christians believe that God knows you even before you were made in the womb. Mixed with God's all knowingness from here until the end of time, does that mean that God knows who's going to heaven and who's going to Hell even before they are born?

Lets' get a handle on a few definitions:

Knowledge: a familiarity, awareness or understanding of someone or something, such as facts, information, descriptions, or skills, which is acquired through experience or education by perceiving, discovering, or learning.

Omniscience: having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things.

Notice that when we use the definition of knowledge to support the definition of omniscience, we find that omniscience, while containing unlimited "knowledge" can only refer to that which is in the past or present, and not in the future. There is no "knowledge" of the future by it's very definition.

As well, there is no mention of any future understanding or knowledge in the definition of omniscience.

Therefore, God does not have knowledge of any future events, He only knows everything about the past and present.

If God is omnipresent, then the future and the past are the present. Therefore God would know the future. From our perspective it is the future but from God's it would be the present.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,641
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12/25/2014 2:08:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 2:01:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/25/2014 1:57:52 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/25/2014 10:32:22 AM, lannan13 wrote:
Christians believe that God knows you even before you were made in the womb. Mixed with God's all knowingness from here until the end of time, does that mean that God knows who's going to heaven and who's going to Hell even before they are born?

Lets' get a handle on a few definitions:

Knowledge: a familiarity, awareness or understanding of someone or something, such as facts, information, descriptions, or skills, which is acquired through experience or education by perceiving, discovering, or learning.

Omniscience: having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things.

Notice that when we use the definition of knowledge to support the definition of omniscience, we find that omniscience, while containing unlimited "knowledge" can only refer to that which is in the past or present, and not in the future. There is no "knowledge" of the future by it's very definition.

As well, there is no mention of any future understanding or knowledge in the definition of omniscience.

Therefore, God does not have knowledge of any future events, He only knows everything about the past and present.

If God is omnipresent, then the future and the past are the present. Therefore God would know the future. From our perspective it is the future but from God's it would be the present.

Can you show in scriptures where it claims God omnipresent?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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12/25/2014 2:12:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 2:08:50 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/25/2014 2:01:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/25/2014 1:57:52 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/25/2014 10:32:22 AM, lannan13 wrote:
Christians believe that God knows you even before you were made in the womb. Mixed with God's all knowingness from here until the end of time, does that mean that God knows who's going to heaven and who's going to Hell even before they are born?

Lets' get a handle on a few definitions:

Knowledge: a familiarity, awareness or understanding of someone or something, such as facts, information, descriptions, or skills, which is acquired through experience or education by perceiving, discovering, or learning.

Omniscience: having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things.

Notice that when we use the definition of knowledge to support the definition of omniscience, we find that omniscience, while containing unlimited "knowledge" can only refer to that which is in the past or present, and not in the future. There is no "knowledge" of the future by it's very definition.

As well, there is no mention of any future understanding or knowledge in the definition of omniscience.

Therefore, God does not have knowledge of any future events, He only knows everything about the past and present.

If God is omnipresent, then the future and the past are the present. Therefore God would know the future. From our perspective it is the future but from God's it would be the present.

Can you show in scriptures where it claims God omnipresent?

Proverbs 15:3 ESV

"The eyes of the Lord are in every place, keeping watch on the evil and the good."
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,641
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12/25/2014 2:13:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 2:12:25 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/25/2014 2:08:50 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/25/2014 2:01:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/25/2014 1:57:52 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/25/2014 10:32:22 AM, lannan13 wrote:
Christians believe that God knows you even before you were made in the womb. Mixed with God's all knowingness from here until the end of time, does that mean that God knows who's going to heaven and who's going to Hell even before they are born?

Lets' get a handle on a few definitions:

Knowledge: a familiarity, awareness or understanding of someone or something, such as facts, information, descriptions, or skills, which is acquired through experience or education by perceiving, discovering, or learning.

Omniscience: having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things.

Notice that when we use the definition of knowledge to support the definition of omniscience, we find that omniscience, while containing unlimited "knowledge" can only refer to that which is in the past or present, and not in the future. There is no "knowledge" of the future by it's very definition.

As well, there is no mention of any future understanding or knowledge in the definition of omniscience.

Therefore, God does not have knowledge of any future events, He only knows everything about the past and present.

If God is omnipresent, then the future and the past are the present. Therefore God would know the future. From our perspective it is the future but from God's it would be the present.

Can you show in scriptures where it claims God omnipresent?

Proverbs 15:3 ESV

"The eyes of the Lord are in every place, keeping watch on the evil and the good."

That would only suggest present tense.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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12/25/2014 2:17:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 2:13:25 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/25/2014 2:12:25 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/25/2014 2:08:50 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/25/2014 2:01:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/25/2014 1:57:52 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/25/2014 10:32:22 AM, lannan13 wrote:
Christians believe that God knows you even before you were made in the womb. Mixed with God's all knowingness from here until the end of time, does that mean that God knows who's going to heaven and who's going to Hell even before they are born?

Lets' get a handle on a few definitions:

Knowledge: a familiarity, awareness or understanding of someone or something, such as facts, information, descriptions, or skills, which is acquired through experience or education by perceiving, discovering, or learning.

Omniscience: having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things.

Notice that when we use the definition of knowledge to support the definition of omniscience, we find that omniscience, while containing unlimited "knowledge" can only refer to that which is in the past or present, and not in the future. There is no "knowledge" of the future by it's very definition.

As well, there is no mention of any future understanding or knowledge in the definition of omniscience.

Therefore, God does not have knowledge of any future events, He only knows everything about the past and present.

If God is omnipresent, then the future and the past are the present. Therefore God would know the future. From our perspective it is the future but from God's it would be the present.

Can you show in scriptures where it claims God omnipresent?

Proverbs 15:3 ESV

"The eyes of the Lord are in every place, keeping watch on the evil and the good."

That would only suggest present tense.

Possibly not for that verse, but there are more verses that support he knows the future.

Psalm 139:1-24
"To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David. O Lord, you have searched me and known me! You know when I sit down and when I rise up; you discern my thoughts from afar. You search out my path and my lying down and are acquainted with all my ways. Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O Lord, you know it altogether. You hem me in, behind and before, and lay your hand upon me."
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/25/2014 2:18:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 1:57:52 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/25/2014 10:32:22 AM, lannan13 wrote:
Christians believe that God knows you even before you were made in the womb. Mixed with God's all knowingness from here until the end of time, does that mean that God knows who's going to heaven and who's going to Hell even before they are born?

Lets' get a handle on a few definitions:

Knowledge: a familiarity, awareness or understanding of someone or something, such as facts, information, descriptions, or skills, which is acquired through experience or education by perceiving, discovering, or learning.

Omniscience: having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things.

Notice that when we use the definition of knowledge to support the definition of omniscience, we find that omniscience, while containing unlimited "knowledge" can only refer to that which is in the past or present, and not in the future. There is no "knowledge" of the future by it's very definition.

As well, there is no mention of any future understanding or knowledge in the definition of omniscience.

Therefore, God does not have knowledge of any future events, He only knows everything about the past and present.

In order for any computer programmer to complete a program used by computer operators, he has to know every detail. Our Creator planned every detail of the future, past and present before He created anything, first as information ( wavelengths of energy as in vibrations ) and then formed into illusions that we observe from individual observations.

This is how God was able to have His prophets write about the future that only us saints were taught about. He uses prophets to write about the future in symbolic form but they didn't get taught about the future. We saints write about the future so that we can read the prophecies that match our writings. The prophecies are just a way to build our confidence before we go out and preach the gospel to find God's chosen believers who listen to us. Believers don't possess the knowledge we saints learn about but they can believe what we say to them. This means they were taught indirectly that there is a Creator and some knowledge through observations of this world. As they view the world, they see many things that can't be explained and this is how they learn there has to be a Creator. We saints get taught directly by our Creator who comes into our mind to do so. As we write and speak the words He puts in our mind, we learn everything He wants us to know.

The world hates the knowledge I share because they are comfortable with their knowledge that explains the illusions of this world. They don't understand that this world is not our reality and that it will be destroyed soon. They don't know that we'll be living in a completely new dream after our bodies die in this world.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/25/2014 2:22:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 10:32:22 AM, lannan13 wrote:
Christians believe that God knows you even before you were made in the womb. Mixed with God's all knowingness from here until the end of time, does that mean that God knows who's going to heaven and who's going to Hell even before they are born?

Everyone know where all people will end up before they are born. All humans are predestined to die. They all end up in the grave. You all know that if you face the truth within yourselves.

The word hell is just a synonym for the grave.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/25/2014 2:29:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 2:22:49 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/25/2014 10:32:22 AM, lannan13 wrote:
Christians believe that God knows you even before you were made in the womb. Mixed with God's all knowingness from here until the end of time, does that mean that God knows who's going to heaven and who's going to Hell even before they are born?

Everyone know where all people will end up before they are born. All humans are predestined to die. They all end up in the grave. You all know that if you face the truth within yourselves.

The word hell is just a synonym for the grave.

You are the most hateful person of life that I've ever met. Your death wish to ALL God's people is what has deceived you from Eternal life for All God's people. I can't imagine anyone listening to the other saints of God who spoke of Eternal Life for ALL God's people if they only spoke about their flesh dying and never know life again. We saints are the only one's who understand what Eternal Life means before God has us killed by those hateful people of Eternal Life. You're one of those hateful people of Eternal Life.
bornofgod
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12/25/2014 2:32:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 2:22:49 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/25/2014 10:32:22 AM, lannan13 wrote:
Christians believe that God knows you even before you were made in the womb. Mixed with God's all knowingness from here until the end of time, does that mean that God knows who's going to heaven and who's going to Hell even before they are born?

Everyone know where all people will end up before they are born. All humans are predestined to die. They all end up in the grave. You all know that if you face the truth within yourselves.

The word hell is just a synonym for the grave.

None of us will remember living in this world we die in but we get new bodies to live forever in the next world ( the New Heaven and Earth ). My perspective as the voice of God will awaken in a new body in Paradise but I won't remember living or dying in this first age. I could care less if I don't remember being an alcoholic and being killed by envious people like yourself who hate Eternal Life and love death.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,641
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12/25/2014 2:35:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 2:17:06 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/25/2014 2:13:25 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/25/2014 2:12:25 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/25/2014 2:08:50 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/25/2014 2:01:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/25/2014 1:57:52 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/25/2014 10:32:22 AM, lannan13 wrote:
Christians believe that God knows you even before you were made in the womb. Mixed with God's all knowingness from here until the end of time, does that mean that God knows who's going to heaven and who's going to Hell even before they are born?

Lets' get a handle on a few definitions:

Knowledge: a familiarity, awareness or understanding of someone or something, such as facts, information, descriptions, or skills, which is acquired through experience or education by perceiving, discovering, or learning.

Omniscience: having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things.

Notice that when we use the definition of knowledge to support the definition of omniscience, we find that omniscience, while containing unlimited "knowledge" can only refer to that which is in the past or present, and not in the future. There is no "knowledge" of the future by it's very definition.

As well, there is no mention of any future understanding or knowledge in the definition of omniscience.

Therefore, God does not have knowledge of any future events, He only knows everything about the past and present.

If God is omnipresent, then the future and the past are the present. Therefore God would know the future. From our perspective it is the future but from God's it would be the present.

Can you show in scriptures where it claims God omnipresent?

Proverbs 15:3 ESV

"The eyes of the Lord are in every place, keeping watch on the evil and the good."

That would only suggest present tense.

Possibly not for that verse, but there are more verses that support he knows the future.

Psalm 139:1-24
"To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David. O Lord, you have searched me and known me! You know when I sit down and when I rise up; you discern my thoughts from afar. You search out my path and my lying down and are acquainted with all my ways. Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O Lord, you know it altogether. You hem me in, behind and before, and lay your hand upon me."

Sorry, but that appears only that God knows that person well based on the past and present knowledge of that person. God is simply making educated predictions, which is not the same thing as knowing the future or knowing a person.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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12/25/2014 2:39:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 2:35:06 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/25/2014 2:17:06 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/25/2014 2:13:25 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/25/2014 2:12:25 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/25/2014 2:08:50 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/25/2014 2:01:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/25/2014 1:57:52 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/25/2014 10:32:22 AM, lannan13 wrote:
Christians believe that God knows you even before you were made in the womb. Mixed with God's all knowingness from here until the end of time, does that mean that God knows who's going to heaven and who's going to Hell even before they are born?

Lets' get a handle on a few definitions:

Knowledge: a familiarity, awareness or understanding of someone or something, such as facts, information, descriptions, or skills, which is acquired through experience or education by perceiving, discovering, or learning.

Omniscience: having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things.

Notice that when we use the definition of knowledge to support the definition of omniscience, we find that omniscience, while containing unlimited "knowledge" can only refer to that which is in the past or present, and not in the future. There is no "knowledge" of the future by it's very definition.

As well, there is no mention of any future understanding or knowledge in the definition of omniscience.

Therefore, God does not have knowledge of any future events, He only knows everything about the past and present.

If God is omnipresent, then the future and the past are the present. Therefore God would know the future. From our perspective it is the future but from God's it would be the present.

Can you show in scriptures where it claims God omnipresent?

Proverbs 15:3 ESV

"The eyes of the Lord are in every place, keeping watch on the evil and the good."

That would only suggest present tense.

Possibly not for that verse, but there are more verses that support he knows the future.

Psalm 139:1-24
"To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David. O Lord, you have searched me and known me! You know when I sit down and when I rise up; you discern my thoughts from afar. You search out my path and my lying down and are acquainted with all my ways. Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O Lord, you know it altogether. You hem me in, behind and before, and lay your hand upon me."

Sorry, but that appears only that God knows that person well based on the past and present knowledge of that person. God is simply making educated predictions, which is not the same thing as knowing the future or knowing a person.

It shows that God knows the future, which was your original contention. " Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O Lord, you know it altogether" is knowing - not making educated predictions.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/25/2014 2:41:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 1:57:52 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/25/2014 10:32:22 AM, lannan13 wrote:
Christians believe that God knows you even before you were made in the womb. Mixed with God's all knowingness from here until the end of time, does that mean that God knows who's going to heaven and who's going to Hell even before they are born?

Lets' get a handle on a few definitions:

Knowledge: a familiarity, awareness or understanding of someone or something, such as facts, information, descriptions, or skills, which is acquired through experience or education by perceiving, discovering, or learning.

Omniscience: having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things.

Notice that when we use the definition of knowledge to support the definition of omniscience, we find that omniscience, while containing unlimited "knowledge" can only refer to that which is in the past or present, and not in the future. There is no "knowledge" of the future by it's very definition.

That's a load of garbage.
You are fully aware that you will die in the future so you do have knowledge of the future. You can plan what you want to do tomorrow or next week or next year and therefore you have knowledge about what you will do as long as circumstances don't stuff up your plans. You can plan your own future and therefore you can know of the future.

As well, there is no mention of any future understanding or knowledge in the definition of omniscience.

Therefore, God does not have knowledge of any future events, He only knows everything about the past and present.

Anyone can have knowledge about future events when the future is a repeat of past events like sunrise, sunset, summer, winter, and any other cyclic events. You have more knowledge about the future than you obviously realize.
History repeats itself. Life is cyclic. There is no new thing under the sun.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/25/2014 2:42:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 2:35:06 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/25/2014 2:17:06 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/25/2014 2:13:25 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/25/2014 2:12:25 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/25/2014 2:08:50 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/25/2014 2:01:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/25/2014 1:57:52 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/25/2014 10:32:22 AM, lannan13 wrote:
Christians believe that God knows you even before you were made in the womb. Mixed with God's all knowingness from here until the end of time, does that mean that God knows who's going to heaven and who's going to Hell even before they are born?

Lets' get a handle on a few definitions:

Knowledge: a familiarity, awareness or understanding of someone or something, such as facts, information, descriptions, or skills, which is acquired through experience or education by perceiving, discovering, or learning.

Omniscience: having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things.

Notice that when we use the definition of knowledge to support the definition of omniscience, we find that omniscience, while containing unlimited "knowledge" can only refer to that which is in the past or present, and not in the future. There is no "knowledge" of the future by it's very definition.

As well, there is no mention of any future understanding or knowledge in the definition of omniscience.

Therefore, God does not have knowledge of any future events, He only knows everything about the past and present.

If God is omnipresent, then the future and the past are the present. Therefore God would know the future. From our perspective it is the future but from God's it would be the present.

Can you show in scriptures where it claims God omnipresent?

Proverbs 15:3 ESV

"The eyes of the Lord are in every place, keeping watch on the evil and the good."

That would only suggest present tense.

Possibly not for that verse, but there are more verses that support he knows the future.

Psalm 139:1-24
"To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David. O Lord, you have searched me and known me! You know when I sit down and when I rise up; you discern my thoughts from afar. You search out my path and my lying down and are acquainted with all my ways. Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O Lord, you know it altogether. You hem me in, behind and before, and lay your hand upon me."

Sorry, but that appears only that God knows that person well based on the past and present knowledge of that person. God is simply making educated predictions, which is not the same thing as knowing the future or knowing a person.

God taught me why, how, where and when my body will be killed. If I'm still in this world after January 24th, which is one month from now, then I was wrong on the when part but I will be killed for the testimonies I've been sharing here in Campbell, CA. I have already identified the group that will hire three men to kill me. Only one of them will draw a gun to my forehead and pull the trigger. That's the last thing that will happen to me in this world but I won't remember it as I awaken in my new body, ready to be used by God to start speaking a new language for His people to use to share their stories to each other that will describe their individual experiences they have.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,641
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12/25/2014 3:23:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 2:39:26 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/25/2014 2:35:06 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/25/2014 2:17:06 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/25/2014 2:13:25 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/25/2014 2:12:25 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/25/2014 2:08:50 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/25/2014 2:01:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/25/2014 1:57:52 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/25/2014 10:32:22 AM, lannan13 wrote:
Christians believe that God knows you even before you were made in the womb. Mixed with God's all knowingness from here until the end of time, does that mean that God knows who's going to heaven and who's going to Hell even before they are born?

Lets' get a handle on a few definitions:

Knowledge: a familiarity, awareness or understanding of someone or something, such as facts, information, descriptions, or skills, which is acquired through experience or education by perceiving, discovering, or learning.

Omniscience: having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things.

Notice that when we use the definition of knowledge to support the definition of omniscience, we find that omniscience, while containing unlimited "knowledge" can only refer to that which is in the past or present, and not in the future. There is no "knowledge" of the future by it's very definition.

As well, there is no mention of any future understanding or knowledge in the definition of omniscience.

Therefore, God does not have knowledge of any future events, He only knows everything about the past and present.

If God is omnipresent, then the future and the past are the present. Therefore God would know the future. From our perspective it is the future but from God's it would be the present.

Can you show in scriptures where it claims God omnipresent?

Proverbs 15:3 ESV

"The eyes of the Lord are in every place, keeping watch on the evil and the good."

That would only suggest present tense.

Possibly not for that verse, but there are more verses that support he knows the future.

Psalm 139:1-24
"To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David. O Lord, you have searched me and known me! You know when I sit down and when I rise up; you discern my thoughts from afar. You search out my path and my lying down and are acquainted with all my ways. Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O Lord, you know it altogether. You hem me in, behind and before, and lay your hand upon me."

Sorry, but that appears only that God knows that person well based on the past and present knowledge of that person. God is simply making educated predictions, which is not the same thing as knowing the future or knowing a person.

It shows that God knows the future, which was your original contention. " Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O Lord, you know it altogether" is knowing - not making educated predictions.

That is not true, the person cannot know what God knows, you are basing your conclusion on the subjective opinion of that person.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,641
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12/25/2014 3:27:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 2:41:35 PM, Skyangel wrote:
That's a load of garbage.
You are fully aware that you will die in the future so you do have knowledge of the future.

No, that is a load of garbage. We understand people die based on the past and present results of mortality amongst humans, not future events.

You can plan what you want to do tomorrow or next week or next year and therefore you have knowledge about what you will do as long as circumstances don't stuff up your plans. You can plan your own future and therefore you can know of the future.

More garbage. You could get hit by a bus the very next day and never accomplish a single plan. Planning your future has nothing to do with knowing the future, that is absurd.

Anyone can have knowledge about future events when the future is a repeat of past events like sunrise, sunset, summer, winter, and any other cyclic events. You have more knowledge about the future than you obviously realize.
History repeats itself. Life is cyclic. There is no new thing under the sun.

Your claims are not about knowledge of the future, they are predictions based on past and present events. The future has not occurred yet, you cannot know it. Do you understand this very simple idea?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth