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Homosexuality VS the Church?

9spaceking
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12/26/2014 8:43:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
We all know the church is separated from the state via law. Yet--does law surpass the church? Specifically, does homosexual marriage laws--can they be set by the church (Since one has to marry in a church)? What do you think? If the church condemns homosexuality, then can they bar them from marriage? Can they bar them from entrance? After all, the church IS private property, no...?
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Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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12/26/2014 8:47:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/26/2014 8:43:42 PM, 9spaceking wrote:
We all know the church is separated from the state via law. Yet--does law surpass the church? Specifically, does homosexual marriage laws--can they be set by the church (Since one has to marry in a church)? What do you think? If the church condemns homosexuality, then can they bar them from marriage? Can they bar them from entrance? After all, the church IS private property, no...?

Religious institutions have their own system of marriage which is purely religious in nature (for example, annulments, which are issued by Catholic clergy.) The adoption of homosexual marriage by secular authorities would in no way compromise that separate authority. Just as the church is not forced to accept a divorce, and still sees marriages which have not been annulled as binding, they will not be forced to acknowledge homosexual marriages on an ecclesiastical level.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
bulproof
Posts: 25,175
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12/26/2014 8:52:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The title of this thread is backwards.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
wsmunit7
Posts: 1,318
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12/26/2014 9:24:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/26/2014 8:43:42 PM, 9spaceking wrote:
We all know the church is separated from the state via law.

It would seem to me that more than a few within some religions haven't figured that out yet.

IYet--does law surpass the church?

In civil / secular law, yes.

Specifically, does homosexual marriage laws--can they be set by the church (Since one has to marry in a church)?

Only within their own particular religious denomination, yes. But not within civil / secular law. In many nations,

You do NOT HAVE to get married in a church to have a legal marriage. There IS "civil marriage "

Mexico for example, religious marriages are not recognized under civil law. Most often, when Mexican couples get married, they have a religious marriage ceremony in a church, then a brief civil marriage ceremony in private before a civil judge before the reception.

What do you think? If the church condemns homosexuality, then can they bar them from marriage?

Within their own religious denomination, yes. Not within civil / secular law.

Can they bar them from entrance? After all, the church IS private property, no...?

Yes they can bar homosexuals from their private club.

What part of "separation of church and state" do you not understand????
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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12/26/2014 9:43:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/26/2014 8:43:42 PM, 9spaceking wrote:
We all know the church is separated from the state via law. Yet--does law surpass the church? Specifically, does homosexual marriage laws--can they be set by the church (Since one has to marry in a church)? What do you think? If the church condemns homosexuality, then can they bar them from marriage? Can they bar them from entrance? After all, the church IS private property, no...?

A church has a right to refuse marrying somebody, but others don't share the homophobic views and will gladly wed gay couples.
9spaceking
Posts: 4,213
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12/28/2014 7:37:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/26/2014 9:24:51 PM, wsmunit7 wrote:
At 12/26/2014 8:43:42 PM, 9spaceking wrote:
We all know the church is separated from the state via law.


It would seem to me that more than a few within some religions haven't figured that out yet.

IYet--does law surpass the church?

In civil / secular law, yes.

Specifically, does homosexual marriage laws--can they be set by the church (Since one has to marry in a church)?

Only within their own particular religious denomination, yes. But not within civil / secular law. In many nations,

You do NOT HAVE to get married in a church to have a legal marriage. There IS "civil marriage "

Mexico for example, religious marriages are not recognized under civil law. Most often, when Mexican couples get married, they have a religious marriage ceremony in a church, then a brief civil marriage ceremony in private before a civil judge before the reception.

What do you think? If the church condemns homosexuality, then can they bar them from marriage?

Within their own religious denomination, yes. Not within civil / secular law.


Can they bar them from entrance? After all, the church IS private property, no...?

Yes they can bar homosexuals from their private club.

What part of "separation of church and state" do you not understand????
hmmm...interesting views
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This House would impose democracy
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Raise min. wage to $10.10
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9spaceking
Posts: 4,213
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12/28/2014 7:38:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/26/2014 8:52:03 PM, bulproof wrote:
The title of this thread is backwards.

You mean, the correct title is:
?Hcruhc eht SV ytilauxesomoh
Equestrian election
http://www.debate.org...

This House would impose democracy
http://www.debate.org...

Reign of Terror is unjustified
http://www.debate.org...

Raise min. wage to $10.10
http://www.debate.org...
Emilrose
Posts: 2,479
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12/28/2014 8:35:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/26/2014 8:43:42 PM, 9spaceking wrote:
We all know the church is separated from the state via law. Yet--does law surpass the church? Specifically, does homosexual marriage laws--can they be set by the church (Since one has to marry in a church)? What do you think? If the church condemns homosexuality, then can they bar them from marriage? Can they bar them from entrance? After all, the church IS private property, no...?

Personally I don't see an issue with civil partnership, which takes place without the church setting. Churches that do not wish to hold same sex marriages (which seems the majority) should be able to retain to the legal right to say "no". The rights of both parties matter, and that's why civil partnership or even marriage within a religious setting that is open and consenting, is adequate.
Commentator on a picture with David Cameron and a Cat: 'Amazing what you can achieve with photoshop these days. I'm sure that used to be a pig.'

Commentator on Hillary Clinton: 'If Clinton is now what passes for progressive, maybe this country deserves Trump.'

Commentator on British parliament: 'All that talent in one place, where is Ebola when you need it?'

John Kerry on words: 'These aren't just words, folks.'
9spaceking
Posts: 4,213
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12/28/2014 8:37:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/28/2014 8:35:34 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/26/2014 8:43:42 PM, 9spaceking wrote:
We all know the church is separated from the state via law. Yet--does law surpass the church? Specifically, does homosexual marriage laws--can they be set by the church (Since one has to marry in a church)? What do you think? If the church condemns homosexuality, then can they bar them from marriage? Can they bar them from entrance? After all, the church IS private property, no...?

Personally I don't see an issue with civil partnership, which takes place without the church setting. Churches that do not wish to hold same sex marriages (which seems the majority) should be able to retain to the legal right to say "no". The rights of both parties matter, and that's why civil partnership or even marriage within a religious setting that is open and consenting, is adequate.

The big problem is that most churches/religion disprove of homosexuality. So most of them would say "No".
Equestrian election
http://www.debate.org...

This House would impose democracy
http://www.debate.org...

Reign of Terror is unjustified
http://www.debate.org...

Raise min. wage to $10.10
http://www.debate.org...
bulproof
Posts: 25,175
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12/28/2014 8:43:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/28/2014 8:35:34 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/26/2014 8:43:42 PM, 9spaceking wrote:
We all know the church is separated from the state via law. Yet--does law surpass the church? Specifically, does homosexual marriage laws--can they be set by the church (Since one has to marry in a church)? What do you think? If the church condemns homosexuality, then can they bar them from marriage? Can they bar them from entrance? After all, the church IS private property, no...?

Personally I don't see an issue with civil partnership, which takes place without the church setting. Churches that do not wish to hold same sex marriages (which seems the majority) should be able to retain to the legal right to say "no". The rights of both parties matter, and that's why civil partnership or even marriage within a religious setting that is open and consenting, is adequate.

And why do you feel the need to distinguish between civil partnership and marriage?
Do you want to claim that every "marriage" performed in Elvis' chapel or a courthouse or conducted by a celebrant rather than an ordained minister of a religious faith should instead be declared a civil union and do you believe that civil unions should not receive the full recognition that marriages receive?

You do understand that Imams are not ordained as such don't you.
Oh what a wicked web we weave.
ooooh insult..........................ooooooh
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Emilrose
Posts: 2,479
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12/28/2014 8:43:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/28/2014 8:37:05 AM, 9spaceking wrote:
At 12/28/2014 8:35:34 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/26/2014 8:43:42 PM, 9spaceking wrote:
We all know the church is separated from the state via law. Yet--does law surpass the church? Specifically, does homosexual marriage laws--can they be set by the church (Since one has to marry in a church)? What do you think? If the church condemns homosexuality, then can they bar them from marriage? Can they bar them from entrance? After all, the church IS private property, no...?

Personally I don't see an issue with civil partnership, which takes place without the church setting. Churches that do not wish to hold same sex marriages (which seems the majority) should be able to retain to the legal right to say "no". The rights of both parties matter, and that's why civil partnership or even marriage within a religious setting that is open and consenting, is adequate.

The big problem is that most churches/religion disprove of homosexuality. So most of them would say "No".

Yep. As a non-consenting party, however, they have the "right" to. Gay people can still legally get married--only in a setting where all parties are consenting.
Commentator on a picture with David Cameron and a Cat: 'Amazing what you can achieve with photoshop these days. I'm sure that used to be a pig.'

Commentator on Hillary Clinton: 'If Clinton is now what passes for progressive, maybe this country deserves Trump.'

Commentator on British parliament: 'All that talent in one place, where is Ebola when you need it?'

John Kerry on words: 'These aren't just words, folks.'
bulproof
Posts: 25,175
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12/28/2014 8:45:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/28/2014 8:43:26 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/28/2014 8:37:05 AM, 9spaceking wrote:
At 12/28/2014 8:35:34 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/26/2014 8:43:42 PM, 9spaceking wrote:
We all know the church is separated from the state via law. Yet--does law surpass the church? Specifically, does homosexual marriage laws--can they be set by the church (Since one has to marry in a church)? What do you think? If the church condemns homosexuality, then can they bar them from marriage? Can they bar them from entrance? After all, the church IS private property, no...?

Personally I don't see an issue with civil partnership, which takes place without the church setting. Churches that do not wish to hold same sex marriages (which seems the majority) should be able to retain to the legal right to say "no". The rights of both parties matter, and that's why civil partnership or even marriage within a religious setting that is open and consenting, is adequate.

The big problem is that most churches/religion disprove of homosexuality. So most of them would say "No".

Yep. As a non-consenting party, however, they have the "right" to. Gay people can still legally get married--only in a setting where all parties are consenting.

Not in America and Australia, just to name two.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,175
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12/28/2014 8:47:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
And you believe that you have some divine right not to be ridiculed for such an ignorant claim?
WHAT?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Emilrose
Posts: 2,479
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12/28/2014 8:48:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/28/2014 8:43:16 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/28/2014 8:35:34 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/26/2014 8:43:42 PM, 9spaceking wrote:
We all know the church is separated from the state via law. Yet--does law surpass the church? Specifically, does homosexual marriage laws--can they be set by the church (Since one has to marry in a church)? What do you think? If the church condemns homosexuality, then can they bar them from marriage? Can they bar them from entrance? After all, the church IS private property, no...?

Personally I don't see an issue with civil partnership, which takes place without the church setting. Churches that do not wish to hold same sex marriages (which seems the majority) should be able to retain to the legal right to say "no". The rights of both parties matter, and that's why civil partnership or even marriage within a religious setting that is open and consenting, is adequate.

And why do you feel the need to distinguish between civil partnership and marriage?
Do you want to claim that every "marriage" performed in Elvis' chapel or a courthouse or conducted by a celebrant rather than an ordained minister of a religious faith should instead be declared a civil union and do you believe that civil unions should not receive the full recognition that marriages receive?


Civil partnerships still count as "marriage", only they are not held in a church. If a church is willing to hold gay marriages, there's no issue. However, if they do not wish to hold gay marriages or give their official consent--legally, they are not obliged to.

You do understand that Imams are not ordained as such don't you.
Oh what a wicked web we weave.
ooooh insult..........................ooooooh

And your point is?
Commentator on a picture with David Cameron and a Cat: 'Amazing what you can achieve with photoshop these days. I'm sure that used to be a pig.'

Commentator on Hillary Clinton: 'If Clinton is now what passes for progressive, maybe this country deserves Trump.'

Commentator on British parliament: 'All that talent in one place, where is Ebola when you need it?'

John Kerry on words: 'These aren't just words, folks.'
Emilrose
Posts: 2,479
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12/28/2014 8:51:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/28/2014 8:45:35 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/28/2014 8:43:26 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/28/2014 8:37:05 AM, 9spaceking wrote:
At 12/28/2014 8:35:34 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/26/2014 8:43:42 PM, 9spaceking wrote:
We all know the church is separated from the state via law. Yet--does law surpass the church? Specifically, does homosexual marriage laws--can they be set by the church (Since one has to marry in a church)? What do you think? If the church condemns homosexuality, then can they bar them from marriage? Can they bar them from entrance? After all, the church IS private property, no...?

Personally I don't see an issue with civil partnership, which takes place without the church setting. Churches that do not wish to hold same sex marriages (which seems the majority) should be able to retain to the legal right to say "no". The rights of both parties matter, and that's why civil partnership or even marriage within a religious setting that is open and consenting, is adequate.

The big problem is that most churches/religion disprove of homosexuality. So most of them would say "No".

Yep. As a non-consenting party, however, they have the "right" to. Gay people can still legally get married--only in a setting where all parties are consenting.

Not in America and Australia, just to name two.

In the U.S homosexuals can be married legally, perhaps not in every state but in the growing majority.
Commentator on a picture with David Cameron and a Cat: 'Amazing what you can achieve with photoshop these days. I'm sure that used to be a pig.'

Commentator on Hillary Clinton: 'If Clinton is now what passes for progressive, maybe this country deserves Trump.'

Commentator on British parliament: 'All that talent in one place, where is Ebola when you need it?'

John Kerry on words: 'These aren't just words, folks.'
bulproof
Posts: 25,175
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12/28/2014 9:09:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/28/2014 8:48:29 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/28/2014 8:43:16 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/28/2014 8:35:34 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/26/2014 8:43:42 PM, 9spaceking wrote:
We all know the church is separated from the state via law. Yet--does law surpass the church? Specifically, does homosexual marriage laws--can they be set by the church (Since one has to marry in a church)? What do you think? If the church condemns homosexuality, then can they bar them from marriage? Can they bar them from entrance? After all, the church IS private property, no...?

Personally I don't see an issue with civil partnership, which takes place without the church setting. Churches that do not wish to hold same sex marriages (which seems the majority) should be able to retain to the legal right to say "no". The rights of both parties matter, and that's why civil partnership or even marriage within a religious setting that is open and consenting, is adequate.

And why do you feel the need to distinguish between civil partnership and marriage?
Do you want to claim that every "marriage" performed in Elvis' chapel or a courthouse or conducted by a celebrant rather than an ordained minister of a religious faith should instead be declared a civil union and do you believe that civil unions should not receive the full recognition that marriages receive?


Civil partnerships still count as "marriage", only they are not held in a church. If a church is willing to hold gay marriages, there's no issue. However, if they do not wish to hold gay marriages or give their official consent--legally, they are not obliged to.

You do understand that Imams are not ordained as such don't you.
Oh what a wicked web we weave.
ooooh insult..........................ooooooh

And your point is?

My point is that you are happy for heterosexuals to be MARRIED out of a church, but you want homosexuals to be civily unioned out of the church, will they be different than the homosexuals who find a church for their ceremony?
Sh*t this prejudice is so fukin funny.
Well it would be if it didn't destroy so many innocent lives.
But then again if you believe in the bible then destroying innocent lives is the ultimately moral thing to do.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,175
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12/28/2014 9:12:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/28/2014 8:48:29 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/28/2014 8:43:16 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/28/2014 8:35:34 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/26/2014 8:43:42 PM, 9spaceking wrote:
We all know the church is separated from the state via law. Yet--does law surpass the church? Specifically, does homosexual marriage laws--can they be set by the church (Since one has to marry in a church)? What do you think? If the church condemns homosexuality, then can they bar them from marriage? Can they bar them from entrance? After all, the church IS private property, no...?

Personally I don't see an issue with civil partnership, which takes place without the church setting. Churches that do not wish to hold same sex marriages (which seems the majority) should be able to retain to the legal right to say "no". The rights of both parties matter, and that's why civil partnership or even marriage within a religious setting that is open and consenting, is adequate.

And why do you feel the need to distinguish between civil partnership and marriage?
Do you want to claim that every "marriage" performed in Elvis' chapel or a courthouse or conducted by a celebrant rather than an ordained minister of a religious faith should instead be declared a civil union and do you believe that civil unions should not receive the full recognition that marriages receive?


Civil partnerships still count as "marriage", only they are not held in a church. If a church is willing to hold gay marriages, there's no issue. However, if they do not wish to hold gay marriages or give their official consent--legally, they are not obliged to.

You do understand that Imams are not ordained as such don't you.
Oh what a wicked web we weave.
ooooh insult..........................ooooooh

And your point is?

You didn't answer my question regarding Elvis' chapel et al.
Wanna try?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Emilrose
Posts: 2,479
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12/28/2014 9:41:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/28/2014 9:09:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/28/2014 8:48:29 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/28/2014 8:43:16 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/28/2014 8:35:34 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/26/2014 8:43:42 PM, 9spaceking wrote:
We all know the church is separated from the state via law. Yet--does law surpass the church? Specifically, does homosexual marriage laws--can they be set by the church (Since one has to marry in a church)? What do you think? If the church condemns homosexuality, then can they bar them from marriage? Can they bar them from entrance? After all, the church IS private property, no...?

Personally I don't see an issue with civil partnership, which takes place without the church setting. Churches that do not wish to hold same sex marriages (which seems the majority) should be able to retain to the legal right to say "no". The rights of both parties matter, and that's why civil partnership or even marriage within a religious setting that is open and consenting, is adequate.

And why do you feel the need to distinguish between civil partnership and marriage?
Do you want to claim that every "marriage" performed in Elvis' chapel or a courthouse or conducted by a celebrant rather than an ordained minister of a religious faith should instead be declared a civil union and do you believe that civil unions should not receive the full recognition that marriages receive?


Civil partnerships still count as "marriage", only they are not held in a church. If a church is willing to hold gay marriages, there's no issue. However, if they do not wish to hold gay marriages or give their official consent--legally, they are not obliged to.

You do understand that Imams are not ordained as such don't you.
Oh what a wicked web we weave.
ooooh insult..........................ooooooh

And your point is?

My point is that you are happy for heterosexuals to be MARRIED out of a church, but you want homosexuals to be civily unioned out of the church, will they be different than the homosexuals who find a church for their ceremony?
Sh*t this prejudice is so fukin funny.
Well it would be if it didn't destroy so many innocent lives.
But then again if you believe in the bible then destroying innocent lives is the ultimately moral thing to do.

Who said anything about my own personal opinion? All I stated is that churches should only conduct gay marriage if it is a consenting party. I have managed to outline this without any reference to *my* beliefs or what the bible states.

Your last comment is irrelevant and off-topic.
Commentator on a picture with David Cameron and a Cat: 'Amazing what you can achieve with photoshop these days. I'm sure that used to be a pig.'

Commentator on Hillary Clinton: 'If Clinton is now what passes for progressive, maybe this country deserves Trump.'

Commentator on British parliament: 'All that talent in one place, where is Ebola when you need it?'

John Kerry on words: 'These aren't just words, folks.'
Emilrose
Posts: 2,479
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12/28/2014 9:44:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/28/2014 9:12:42 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/28/2014 8:48:29 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/28/2014 8:43:16 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/28/2014 8:35:34 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/26/2014 8:43:42 PM, 9spaceking wrote:
We all know the church is separated from the state via law. Yet--does law surpass the church? Specifically, does homosexual marriage laws--can they be set by the church (Since one has to marry in a church)? What do you think? If the church condemns homosexuality, then can they bar them from marriage? Can they bar them from entrance? After all, the church IS private property, no...?

Personally I don't see an issue with civil partnership, which takes place without the church setting. Churches that do not wish to hold same sex marriages (which seems the majority) should be able to retain to the legal right to say "no". The rights of both parties matter, and that's why civil partnership or even marriage within a religious setting that is open and consenting, is adequate.

And why do you feel the need to distinguish between civil partnership and marriage?
Do you want to claim that every "marriage" performed in Elvis' chapel or a courthouse or conducted by a celebrant rather than an ordained minister of a religious faith should instead be declared a civil union and do you believe that civil unions should not receive the full recognition that marriages receive?


Civil partnerships still count as "marriage", only they are not held in a church. If a church is willing to hold gay marriages, there's no issue. However, if they do not wish to hold gay marriages or give their official consent--legally, they are not obliged to.

You do understand that Imams are not ordained as such don't you.
Oh what a wicked web we weave.
ooooh insult..........................ooooooh

And your point is?

You didn't answer my question regarding Elvis' chapel et al.
Wanna try?

If the chapel and minster are consenting I don't see the issue. If you look at my original posts, you'll see that's what I was actually saying.
Commentator on a picture with David Cameron and a Cat: 'Amazing what you can achieve with photoshop these days. I'm sure that used to be a pig.'

Commentator on Hillary Clinton: 'If Clinton is now what passes for progressive, maybe this country deserves Trump.'

Commentator on British parliament: 'All that talent in one place, where is Ebola when you need it?'

John Kerry on words: 'These aren't just words, folks.'
bulproof
Posts: 25,175
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12/28/2014 9:49:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/28/2014 9:44:34 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/28/2014 9:12:42 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/28/2014 8:48:29 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/28/2014 8:43:16 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/28/2014 8:35:34 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/26/2014 8:43:42 PM, 9spaceking wrote:
We all know the church is separated from the state via law. Yet--does law surpass the church? Specifically, does homosexual marriage laws--can they be set by the church (Since one has to marry in a church)? What do you think? If the church condemns homosexuality, then can they bar them from marriage? Can they bar them from entrance? After all, the church IS private property, no...?

Personally I don't see an issue with civil partnership, which takes place without the church setting. Churches that do not wish to hold same sex marriages (which seems the majority) should be able to retain to the legal right to say "no". The rights of both parties matter, and that's why civil partnership or even marriage within a religious setting that is open and consenting, is adequate.

And why do you feel the need to distinguish between civil partnership and marriage?
Do you want to claim that every "marriage" performed in Elvis' chapel or a courthouse or conducted by a celebrant rather than an ordained minister of a religious faith should instead be declared a civil union and do you believe that civil unions should not receive the full recognition that marriages receive?


Civil partnerships still count as "marriage", only they are not held in a church. If a church is willing to hold gay marriages, there's no issue. However, if they do not wish to hold gay marriages or give their official consent--legally, they are not obliged to.

You do understand that Imams are not ordained as such don't you.
Oh what a wicked web we weave.
ooooh insult..........................ooooooh

And your point is?

You didn't answer my question regarding Elvis' chapel et al.
Wanna try?

If the chapel and minster are consenting I don't see the issue. If you look at my original posts, you'll see that's what I was actually saying.

No it isn't!
You were bringing up civil unions as an alternative to marriage and when I questioned you on marriages in Elvis' chapels you ran away as usual.
You have trouble answering questions, especially when they relate to your beliefs.
Why is that do you think?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Emilrose
Posts: 2,479
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12/28/2014 10:23:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/28/2014 9:49:47 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/28/2014 9:44:34 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/28/2014 9:12:42 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/28/2014 8:48:29 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/28/2014 8:43:16 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/28/2014 8:35:34 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/26/2014 8:43:42 PM, 9spaceking wrote:
We all know the church is separated from the state via law. Yet--does law surpass the church? Specifically, does homosexual marriage laws--can they be set by the church (Since one has to marry in a church)? What do you think? If the church condemns homosexuality, then can they bar them from marriage? Can they bar them from entrance? After all, the church IS private property, no...?

Personally I don't see an issue with civil partnership, which takes place without the church setting. Churches that do not wish to hold same sex marriages (which seems the majority) should be able to retain to the legal right to say "no". The rights of both parties matter, and that's why civil partnership or even marriage within a religious setting that is open and consenting, is adequate.

And why do you feel the need to distinguish between civil partnership and marriage?
Do you want to claim that every "marriage" performed in Elvis' chapel or a courthouse or conducted by a celebrant rather than an ordained minister of a religious faith should instead be declared a civil union and do you believe that civil unions should not receive the full recognition that marriages receive?


Civil partnerships still count as "marriage", only they are not held in a church. If a church is willing to hold gay marriages, there's no issue. However, if they do not wish to hold gay marriages or give their official consent--legally, they are not obliged to.

You do understand that Imams are not ordained as such don't you.
Oh what a wicked web we weave.
ooooh insult..........................ooooooh

And your point is?

You didn't answer my question regarding Elvis' chapel et al.
Wanna try?

If the chapel and minster are consenting I don't see the issue. If you look at my original posts, you'll see that's what I was actually saying.

No it isn't!
You were bringing up civil unions as an alternative to marriage and when I questioned you on marriages in Elvis' chapels you ran away as usual.
You have trouble answering questions, especially when they relate to your beliefs.
Why is that do you think?

Incorrect. What I said was that civil unions are still legally marriage, and if churches are not willing to host gay marriage they should not be obliged to. The same was not applied to churches or religious settings that *do* consent to gay marriages.

There is not one post in which I've "ran away" from anything you said. All posts are responded to and corrected.

Again, my beliefs (as with yours) are irrelevant.
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bulproof
Posts: 25,175
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12/29/2014 7:15:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/28/2014 9:44:34 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/28/2014 9:12:42 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/28/2014 8:48:29 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/28/2014 8:43:16 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/28/2014 8:35:34 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/26/2014 8:43:42 PM, 9spaceking wrote:
We all know the church is separated from the state via law. Yet--does law surpass the church? Specifically, does homosexual marriage laws--can they be set by the church (Since one has to marry in a church)? What do you think? If the church condemns homosexuality, then can they bar them from marriage? Can they bar them from entrance? After all, the church IS private property, no...?

Personally I don't see an issue with civil partnership, which takes place without the church setting. Churches that do not wish to hold same sex marriages (which seems the majority) should be able to retain to the legal right to say "no". The rights of both parties matter, and that's why civil partnership or even marriage within a religious setting that is open and consenting, is adequate.

And why do you feel the need to distinguish between civil partnership and marriage?
Do you want to claim that every "marriage" performed in Elvis' chapel or a courthouse or conducted by a celebrant rather than an ordained minister of a religious faith should instead be declared a civil union and do you believe that civil unions should not receive the full recognition that marriages receive?


Civil partnerships still count as "marriage", only they are not held in a church. If a church is willing to hold gay marriages, there's no issue. However, if they do not wish to hold gay marriages or give their official consent--legally, they are not obliged to.

You do understand that Imams are not ordained as such don't you.
Oh what a wicked web we weave.
ooooh insult..........................ooooooh

And your point is?

You didn't answer my question regarding Elvis' chapel et al.
Wanna try?

If the chapel and minster are consenting I don't see the issue. If you look at my original posts, you'll see that's what I was actually saying.

No. You wouldn't.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
PLEASESTOPLYING
Posts: 196
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12/29/2014 9:22:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/26/2014 8:43:42 PM, 9spaceking wrote:
We all know the church is separated from the state via law. Yet--does law surpass the church? Specifically, does homosexual marriage laws--can they be set by the church (Since one has to marry in a church)? What do you think? If the church condemns homosexuality, then can they bar them from marriage? Can they bar them from entrance? After all, the church IS private property, no...?

Where in the world do you come from? Since when do people have to be married in a church? Since when does religion have to have anything to do with a church or religion. People can just as easily be married in a courthouse by a judge.
even a notary public can perform a marriage ceremony.
The church cannot set any law whatsoever. They can however refuse to perform any service they choose, but not make laws, the making of laws is absolutely limited to the government, however the church can influence the decision of those with the power to make laws.
Also you should really keep up with the times- you cannot say the church bans homosexual anything . You can say that A church does but not paint with a broad brush and say the church. there are a great number of churches that now openly accept gay people, and even some that have openly gay pastors.
Did anyone ever disprove the existence of ZEUS?
9spaceking
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12/29/2014 10:12:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/29/2014 9:22:45 AM, PLEASESTOPLYING wrote:
At 12/26/2014 8:43:42 PM, 9spaceking wrote:
We all know the church is separated from the state via law. Yet--does law surpass the church? Specifically, does homosexual marriage laws--can they be set by the church (Since one has to marry in a church)? What do you think? If the church condemns homosexuality, then can they bar them from marriage? Can they bar them from entrance? After all, the church IS private property, no...?

Where in the world do you come from? Since when do people have to be married in a church? Since when does religion have to have anything to do with a church or religion. People can just as easily be married in a courthouse by a judge.
even a notary public can perform a marriage ceremony.
The church cannot set any law whatsoever. They can however refuse to perform any service they choose, but not make laws, the making of laws is absolutely limited to the government, however the church can influence the decision of those with the power to make laws.
Also you should really keep up with the times- you cannot say the church bans homosexual anything . You can say that A church does but not paint with a broad brush and say the church. there are a great number of churches that now openly accept gay people, and even some that have openly gay pastors.
Hmmm....interesting...Looks like I was right this whole time.
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bornofgod
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12/29/2014 10:55:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/26/2014 8:43:42 PM, 9spaceking wrote:
We all know the church is separated from the state via law. Yet--does law surpass the church? Specifically, does homosexual marriage laws--can they be set by the church (Since one has to marry in a church)? What do you think? If the church condemns homosexuality, then can they bar them from marriage? Can they bar them from entrance? After all, the church IS private property, no...?

The Church of Christ contains the plan of God to destroy all Christianity, Judaism, Islam and all the false churches that set themselves apart from Him.