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Rescusitation verses NDEs

Beastt
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12/26/2014 11:01:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
We often hear stories from people who have had Near-Death Experiences, and a common component in these accounts is someone offering the newly deceased the option to remain dead, or to return to their life. This is suggested to be some kind of spiritual reality and a choice made by the spirit.

But when you consider that very few people ever used to be resuscitated, obviously, if this were a spiritual reality, they weren't given the option to resume their life nearly as often. This places the supposed "spiritual experience" under the control of medical technology, rather than under spiritual control as is suggested in the theistic view of the NDE. So if spirits are sometimes given the option to resume their life, why would this ability to resume life be determined by the resuscitative efforts of human medical procedures?

Obviously, if one sees NDEs as the hallucination common to declining oxygen levels in the brain, the explanation becomes consistent with advances in medicine. Otherwise, the suggestion is that as medical resuscitation becomes more advanced and more successful, the spirit is provided with an option to resume life far more frequently than when medicine was much more primitive. Is the spiritual choice reliant upon the current stage of medical advancement?

Any thoughts?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,207
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12/26/2014 11:10:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/26/2014 11:01:43 PM, Beastt wrote:
We often hear stories from people who have had Near-Death Experiences, and a common component in these accounts is someone offering the newly deceased the option to remain dead, or to return to their life. This is suggested to be some kind of spiritual reality and a choice made by the spirit.

But when you consider that very few people ever used to be resuscitated, obviously, if this were a spiritual reality, they weren't given the option to resume their life nearly as often. This places the supposed "spiritual experience" under the control of medical technology, rather than under spiritual control as is suggested in the theistic view of the NDE. So if spirits are sometimes given the option to resume their life, why would this ability to resume life be determined by the resuscitative efforts of human medical procedures?

Obviously, if one sees NDEs as the hallucination common to declining oxygen levels in the brain, the explanation becomes consistent with advances in medicine. Otherwise, the suggestion is that as medical resuscitation becomes more advanced and more successful, the spirit is provided with an option to resume life far more frequently than when medicine was much more primitive. Is the spiritual choice reliant upon the current stage of medical advancement?

Any thoughts?

Trying to stay in the 'flavor' of the situation, were I a spirit whom was understanding that the physical body I was just in is being manipulated to stay functioning through medical advances, I would be much more inclined to return to it, as opposed to say, 200 years ago, when returning to the oxygen starved husk might not lead to a good quality of remaining life. With oxygen being supplied, defib kits and CPR keeping the blood in some way moving around, it just presents a better situation than hoping back into a body that suffered a heart attack and now has diminished capacity due to lack of medical involvment.
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Vox_Veritas
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12/26/2014 11:51:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
It's possible, or they had a near death experience.
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Skepticalone
Posts: 6,095
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12/27/2014 1:13:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/26/2014 11:01:43 PM, Beastt wrote:
We often hear stories from people who have had Near-Death Experiences, and a common component in these accounts is someone offering the newly deceased the option to remain dead, or to return to their life. This is suggested to be some kind of spiritual reality and a choice made by the spirit.

But when you consider that very few people ever used to be resuscitated, obviously, if this were a spiritual reality, they weren't given the option to resume their life nearly as often. This places the supposed "spiritual experience" under the control of medical technology, rather than under spiritual control as is suggested in the theistic view of the NDE. So if spirits are sometimes given the option to resume their life, why would this ability to resume life be determined by the resuscitative efforts of human medical procedures?

Obviously, if one sees NDEs as the hallucination common to declining oxygen levels in the brain, the explanation becomes consistent with advances in medicine. Otherwise, the suggestion is that as medical resuscitation becomes more advanced and more successful, the spirit is provided with an option to resume life far more frequently than when medicine was much more primitive. Is the spiritual choice reliant upon the current stage of medical advancement?

Any thoughts?

I have heard of random number generators being placed in hospital rooms where some NDE had taken place. None of the revived were able to give the correct number. It has been a very long time since I ran across this claim, and I can not remember if it was some sort of a study, or if it was just a story similar to the revived person who told of the shoe on the roof. Maybe someone else has heard of it, and can find it.
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jodybirdy
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12/27/2014 2:17:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/26/2014 11:01:43 PM, Beastt wrote:
We often hear stories from people who have had Near-Death Experiences, and a common component in these accounts is someone offering the newly deceased the option to remain dead, or to return to their life. This is suggested to be some kind of spiritual reality and a choice made by the spirit.

But when you consider that very few people ever used to be resuscitated, obviously, if this were a spiritual reality, they weren't given the option to resume their life nearly as often. This places the supposed "spiritual experience" under the control of medical technology, rather than under spiritual control as is suggested in the theistic view of the NDE. So if spirits are sometimes given the option to resume their life, why would this ability to resume life be determined by the resuscitative efforts of human medical procedures?

Obviously, if one sees NDEs as the hallucination common to declining oxygen levels in the brain, the explanation becomes consistent with advances in medicine. Otherwise, the suggestion is that as medical resuscitation becomes more advanced and more successful, the spirit is provided with an option to resume life far more frequently than when medicine was much more primitive. Is the spiritual choice reliant upon the current stage of medical advancement?

Any thoughts?

There is a natural thing that happens when you're near death where you feel quite alright about it. I know this from experience. Extreme loss of blood, sleep, and complete contentment with the outcome. Even when there is a newborn baby that you would be leaving behind by dying, the chemical reaction in your brain allows you to be okay with it.

I saw no angels. No bright lights. No dead loved ones. Just the peace of a very deep inviting sleep that I didn't care if I woke up from. I think it's because I wasn't on drugs. No morphine and no pain killers were given to me and so I guess I didn't have the awesome hallucinations associated with some NDEs.

So, I think it's safe to say that there isn't anything special about death. It's really just a peaceful sleep that's gradual and your state of mind allows it to be a peaceful event. That's my personal experience, nothing scientific, and simply my opinion about life after death. Maybe I wasn't quite dead enough ;)
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
dee-em
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12/27/2014 3:11:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/27/2014 1:13:00 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 12/26/2014 11:01:43 PM, Beastt wrote:
We often hear stories from people who have had Near-Death Experiences, and a common component in these accounts is someone offering the newly deceased the option to remain dead, or to return to their life. This is suggested to be some kind of spiritual reality and a choice made by the spirit.

But when you consider that very few people ever used to be resuscitated, obviously, if this were a spiritual reality, they weren't given the option to resume their life nearly as often. This places the supposed "spiritual experience" under the control of medical technology, rather than under spiritual control as is suggested in the theistic view of the NDE. So if spirits are sometimes given the option to resume their life, why would this ability to resume life be determined by the resuscitative efforts of human medical procedures?

Obviously, if one sees NDEs as the hallucination common to declining oxygen levels in the brain, the explanation becomes consistent with advances in medicine. Otherwise, the suggestion is that as medical resuscitation becomes more advanced and more successful, the spirit is provided with an option to resume life far more frequently than when medicine was much more primitive. Is the spiritual choice reliant upon the current stage of medical advancement?

Any thoughts?

I have heard of random number generators being placed in hospital rooms where some NDE had taken place. None of the revived were able to give the correct number. It has been a very long time since I ran across this claim, and I can not remember if it was some sort of a study, or if it was just a story similar to the revived person who told of the shoe on the roof. Maybe someone else has heard of it, and can find it.

Not a random number generator, but this experiment has been running since 2011:

http://en.wikipedia.org...

As part of the AWARE study Parnia and colleagues have investigated out of body claims by using hidden targets placed on shelves that could only be seen from above.[17] Parnia has written "if no one sees the pictures, it shows these experiences are illusions or false memories".[17] Parnia issued a statement indicating that the first phase of the project has been completed and the results are undergoing peer review for publication in a medical journal.[18] No subjects saw the images mounted out of sight according to Parnia's early report of the results of the study at an American Heart Association meeting in November 2013. \7;nly two out of the 152 patients reported any visual experiences, and one of them described events that could be verified.[19]
On October 06, 2014 the results of the study were published in the journal Resuscitation.[15][20][21][22]
bulproof
Posts: 25,214
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12/27/2014 4:10:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/27/2014 3:11:30 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 12/27/2014 1:13:00 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 12/26/2014 11:01:43 PM, Beastt wrote:
We often hear stories from people who have had Near-Death Experiences, and a common component in these accounts is someone offering the newly deceased the option to remain dead, or to return to their life. This is suggested to be some kind of spiritual reality and a choice made by the spirit.

But when you consider that very few people ever used to be resuscitated, obviously, if this were a spiritual reality, they weren't given the option to resume their life nearly as often. This places the supposed "spiritual experience" under the control of medical technology, rather than under spiritual control as is suggested in the theistic view of the NDE. So if spirits are sometimes given the option to resume their life, why would this ability to resume life be determined by the resuscitative efforts of human medical procedures?

Obviously, if one sees NDEs as the hallucination common to declining oxygen levels in the brain, the explanation becomes consistent with advances in medicine. Otherwise, the suggestion is that as medical resuscitation becomes more advanced and more successful, the spirit is provided with an option to resume life far more frequently than when medicine was much more primitive. Is the spiritual choice reliant upon the current stage of medical advancement?

Any thoughts?

I have heard of random number generators being placed in hospital rooms where some NDE had taken place. None of the revived were able to give the correct number. It has been a very long time since I ran across this claim, and I can not remember if it was some sort of a study, or if it was just a story similar to the revived person who told of the shoe on the roof. Maybe someone else has heard of it, and can find it.

Not a random number generator, but this experiment has been running since 2011:

http://en.wikipedia.org...

As part of the AWARE study Parnia and colleagues have investigated out of body claims by using hidden targets placed on shelves that could only be seen from above.[17] Parnia has written "if no one sees the pictures, it shows these experiences are illusions or false memories".[17] Parnia issued a statement indicating that the first phase of the project has been completed and the results are undergoing peer review for publication in a medical journal.[18] No subjects saw the images mounted out of sight according to Parnia's early report of the results of the study at an American Heart Association meeting in November 2013. \7;nly two out of the 152 patients reported any visual experiences, and one of them described events that could be verified.[19]
On October 06, 2014 the results of the study were published in the journal Resuscitation.[15][20][21][22]


i was desperately wracking my brain for his name. Parnia. Thanks dee.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
dee-em
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12/27/2014 5:00:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/27/2014 4:10:26 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/27/2014 3:11:30 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 12/27/2014 1:13:00 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 12/26/2014 11:01:43 PM, Beastt wrote:
We often hear stories from people who have had Near-Death Experiences, and a common component in these accounts is someone offering the newly deceased the option to remain dead, or to return to their life. This is suggested to be some kind of spiritual reality and a choice made by the spirit.

But when you consider that very few people ever used to be resuscitated, obviously, if this were a spiritual reality, they weren't given the option to resume their life nearly as often. This places the supposed "spiritual experience" under the control of medical technology, rather than under spiritual control as is suggested in the theistic view of the NDE. So if spirits are sometimes given the option to resume their life, why would this ability to resume life be determined by the resuscitative efforts of human medical procedures?

Obviously, if one sees NDEs as the hallucination common to declining oxygen levels in the brain, the explanation becomes consistent with advances in medicine. Otherwise, the suggestion is that as medical resuscitation becomes more advanced and more successful, the spirit is provided with an option to resume life far more frequently than when medicine was much more primitive. Is the spiritual choice reliant upon the current stage of medical advancement?

Any thoughts?

I have heard of random number generators being placed in hospital rooms where some NDE had taken place. None of the revived were able to give the correct number. It has been a very long time since I ran across this claim, and I can not remember if it was some sort of a study, or if it was just a story similar to the revived person who told of the shoe on the roof. Maybe someone else has heard of it, and can find it.

Not a random number generator, but this experiment has been running since 2011:

http://en.wikipedia.org...

As part of the AWARE study Parnia and colleagues have investigated out of body claims by using hidden targets placed on shelves that could only be seen from above.[17] Parnia has written "if no one sees the pictures, it shows these experiences are illusions or false memories".[17] Parnia issued a statement indicating that the first phase of the project has been completed and the results are undergoing peer review for publication in a medical journal.[18] No subjects saw the images mounted out of sight according to Parnia's early report of the results of the study at an American Heart Association meeting in November 2013. \7;nly two out of the 152 patients reported any visual experiences, and one of them described events that could be verified.[19]
On October 06, 2014 the results of the study were published in the journal Resuscitation.[15][20][21][22]


i was desperately wracking my brain for his name. Parnia. Thanks dee.

Have you forgotten? We're illogical trolls and are not here to make a meaningful contribution. Oops, I've forgotten too. Damn. :-)
Beastt
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12/27/2014 5:01:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Can anyone find any actual evidence of an out of the body experience during a reported NDE? It appears there are a number of anecdotal claims, but some have been admitted hoaxes and so far, I've not seen one in which a patient has actually provided some bit of information which can only be explained if the subject did leave the body in some conscious form. I'm finding a lot of claims, but the patients are usually just a first name, and there doesn't appear to be any written statement by the patient, or anything approaching confirmation.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
bulproof
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12/27/2014 6:59:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/27/2014 5:01:34 AM, Beastt wrote:
Can anyone find any actual evidence of an out of the body experience during a reported NDE? It appears there are a number of anecdotal claims, but some have been admitted hoaxes and so far, I've not seen one in which a patient has actually provided some bit of information which can only be explained if the subject did leave the body in some conscious form. I'm finding a lot of claims, but the patients are usually just a first name, and there doesn't appear to be any written statement by the patient, or anything approaching confirmation.

Just more trolling Beastt, shame on you. If you don't believe the believers you are by definition a TROLL on DDO.
Just ask the troll hunters.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,095
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12/27/2014 7:30:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/27/2014 3:11:30 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 12/27/2014 1:13:00 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 12/26/2014 11:01:43 PM, Beastt wrote:
We often hear stories from people who have had Near-Death Experiences, and a common component in these accounts is someone offering the newly deceased the option to remain dead, or to return to their life. This is suggested to be some kind of spiritual reality and a choice made by the spirit.

But when you consider that very few people ever used to be resuscitated, obviously, if this were a spiritual reality, they weren't given the option to resume their life nearly as often. This places the supposed "spiritual experience" under the control of medical technology, rather than under spiritual control as is suggested in the theistic view of the NDE. So if spirits are sometimes given the option to resume their life, why would this ability to resume life be determined by the resuscitative efforts of human medical procedures?

Obviously, if one sees NDEs as the hallucination common to declining oxygen levels in the brain, the explanation becomes consistent with advances in medicine. Otherwise, the suggestion is that as medical resuscitation becomes more advanced and more successful, the spirit is provided with an option to resume life far more frequently than when medicine was much more primitive. Is the spiritual choice reliant upon the current stage of medical advancement?

Any thoughts?

I have heard of random number generators being placed in hospital rooms where some NDE had taken place. None of the revived were able to give the correct number. It has been a very long time since I ran across this claim, and I can not remember if it was some sort of a study, or if it was just a story similar to the revived person who told of the shoe on the roof. Maybe someone else has heard of it, and can find it.

Not a random number generator, but this experiment has been running since 2011:

http://en.wikipedia.org...

As part of the AWARE study Parnia and colleagues have investigated out of body claims by using hidden targets placed on shelves that could only be seen from above.[17] Parnia has written "if no one sees the pictures, it shows these experiences are illusions or false memories".[17] Parnia issued a statement indicating that the first phase of the project has been completed and the results are undergoing peer review for publication in a medical journal.[18] No subjects saw the images mounted out of sight according to Parnia's early report of the results of the study at an American Heart Association meeting in November 2013. \7;nly two out of the 152 patients reported any visual experiences, and one of them described events that could be verified.[19]
On October 06, 2014 the results of the study were published in the journal Resuscitation.[15][20][21][22]


No wonder I couldn't find it! Ty
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
DanneJeRusse
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12/27/2014 1:24:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/26/2014 11:01:43 PM, Beastt wrote:
We often hear stories from people who have had Near-Death Experiences, and a common component in these accounts is someone offering the newly deceased the option to remain dead, or to return to their life. This is suggested to be some kind of spiritual reality and a choice made by the spirit.

I find it rather surprising that anyone undergoing trauma to brain can be so cognizant such they still have the capacity to observe, acknowledge and rationalize their hallucinations to be spirits bargaining in the supernatural. Hilarious.
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Beastt
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12/27/2014 1:42:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/27/2014 1:24:32 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/26/2014 11:01:43 PM, Beastt wrote:
We often hear stories from people who have had Near-Death Experiences, and a common component in these accounts is someone offering the newly deceased the option to remain dead, or to return to their life. This is suggested to be some kind of spiritual reality and a choice made by the spirit.

I find it rather surprising that anyone undergoing trauma to brain can be so cognizant such they still have the capacity to observe, acknowledge and rationalize their hallucinations to be spirits bargaining in the supernatural. Hilarious.

Much like the idiot who tells you, "I'm no idiot". Or the person who assures you that they have no mental illness. I like to point out that there is a reason we don't allow the mentally ill to diagnose themselves. The American Indians believed that peyote allowed them to visit the spirit world. It contains a mind-altering chemical. This is the problem with allowing the person having the altered-mind experience tell us whether or not the experience reflects reality.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire