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Belief in End Times and Consequesnes of in US

Bennett91
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12/27/2014 3:29:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
According to this survey of US Christians, 27% of those polled say Jesus will definitely return and 20% say he'll probably return by 2050 [1]. That's nearly 50% of Christians. Christians make up almost 80% of the US population [2], so roughly 30-40% of Americans believe that the 2nd Coming will likely occur in the next 40 years. To affirm this, 32% of Christians see the conflict in Syria as a sign of the End of Days [3].

What do y'all think this means for the future of the US? How do you think this mind set effects US policy at home and abroad? Should it effect how we as a people act in the world?

I personally think this mindset is dangerous. It terrifies me to think that people who think the world is ending soon may be in positions of power. This mindset makes people focus on the short term, away from finding solutions to problems that will most definitely be around in our future like global warming. It makes an excuse to keep the US under theocratic control, because why would the religious relinquish power or give up their cause when they believe they preparing Jesus's kingdom which is just around the corner? Not only that, but in general "End Time" prophesies cause people to do crazy things like parents trying to kill their children and themselves and other cases of suicides [4].

[1] http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
[2] https://www.cia.gov...
[3] http://www.patheos.com...
[4] http://www.livescience.com...
bulproof
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12/27/2014 4:05:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/27/2014 3:29:04 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
According to this survey of US Christians, 27% of those polled say Jesus will definitely return and 20% say he'll probably return by 2050 [1]. That's nearly 50% of Christians. Christians make up almost 80% of the US population [2], so roughly 30-40% of Americans believe that the 2nd Coming will likely occur in the next 40 years. To affirm this, 32% of Christians see the conflict in Syria as a sign of the End of Days [3].

What do y'all think this means for the future of the US? How do you think this mind set effects US policy at home and abroad? Should it effect how we as a people act in the world?

I personally think this mindset is dangerous. It terrifies me to think that people who think the world is ending soon may be in positions of power. This mindset makes people focus on the short term, away from finding solutions to problems that will most definitely be around in our future like global warming. It makes an excuse to keep the US under theocratic control, because why would the religious relinquish power or give up their cause when they believe they preparing Jesus's kingdom which is just around the corner? Not only that, but in general "End Time" prophesies cause people to do crazy things like parents trying to kill their children and themselves and other cases of suicides [4].

[1] http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
[2] https://www.cia.gov...
[3] http://www.patheos.com...
[4] http://www.livescience.com...

Nice try mate, but I don't think it will get through to the doomsdayers on here.
But kudos anyway.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,373
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12/27/2014 7:44:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/27/2014 3:29:04 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
According to this survey of US Christians, 27% of those polled say Jesus will definitely return and 20% say he'll probably return by 2050 [1]. That's nearly 50% of Christians. Christians make up almost 80% of the US population [2], so roughly 30-40% of Americans believe that the 2nd Coming will likely occur in the next 40 years. To affirm this, 32% of Christians see the conflict in Syria as a sign of the End of Days [3].

What do y'all think this means for the future of the US? How do you think this mind set effects US policy at home and abroad? Should it effect how we as a people act in the world?

I personally think this mindset is dangerous. It terrifies me to think that people who think the world is ending soon may be in positions of power. This mindset makes people focus on the short term, away from finding solutions to problems that will most definitely be around in our future like global warming. It makes an excuse to keep the US under theocratic control, because why would the religious relinquish power or give up their cause when they believe they preparing Jesus's kingdom which is just around the corner? Not only that, but in general "End Time" prophesies cause people to do crazy things like parents trying to kill their children and themselves and other cases of suicides [4].

[1] http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
[2] https://www.cia.gov...
[3] http://www.patheos.com...
[4] http://www.livescience.com...
The Huffington Post link was nothing more than statistics which give no evidence of any religious danger. The CIA fact book only gives stats/percentages on religions per each country, saying nothing about belief in end times. Patheos is basically a militant atheist website that are certainly not going to give any unbiased views. And the last link is very deceptive, and here is why:

Harold Camping. During Camping's campaign, the major opponent, the voice that spoke against his campaign were Christians. Camping's teachings have been widely rejected for years by most Christians. And as his teachings became more off base, the more his teachings have been addressed and exposed by numerous Christians. The dangers of his teachings have been addressed for years....by Christians.

The Heaven's Gate group was a UFO cult. To call them Christian (amazing how they are conveniently Christian now) is very deceiving. They intermingled some Christianity as well as New Age religion, but basically they were a UFO cult just like any other. They took their UFOlogy (or UFO religion) to an extreme. We can just as easily address a danger of UFOlogy. And UFOlogy is very secular in nature, and can be equally atheistic in nature. There are people who believe that there really are these races of aliens (Greys, Reptilians, even Bigfoot, etc.) just like human racial/ethnic groups. They believe there really are intergalactic, or interplanetary organizations ala Star Trek just as there are global organizations like the U.N. These could be labeled as religious, but it's got nothing to do with Christianity other than fringe groups who relate UFOlogy to the Bible. For the most part, it's all very secular, shares the same bed with the theory of evolution, and any references to suicides can just as easily be attributed to society's fascination with UFOlogy as anything else.

As far as fearing? The biggest thing to fear might just be the fear itself of religion. The hysteria as a result of fearing something that doesn't exist. For one, the U.S. is not a theocracy. Period. To make any reference to an American theocracy is a false allegation. And no, the end times prophesies themselves do not cause people to do crazy things. From time to time, a charismatic leader will persuade some people to follow them, as was the case with Harold Camping. There are also people who can persuade those who are obsessed with extraterrestrial visitation to follow them. Many Americans have believed in the end times prophecies for years. During WWII, many thought Hitler was the anti-christ. This didn't have any profound negative effect on Americans. What it did do is cause many Christians to realize we really don't know the day or the hour as strongly recommended by Jesus Christ in scripture.
Bennett91
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12/27/2014 9:10:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/27/2014 7:44:56 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 12/27/2014 3:29:04 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
According to this survey of US Christians, 27% of those polled say Jesus will definitely return and 20% say he'll probably return by 2050 [1]. That's nearly 50% of Christians. Christians make up almost 80% of the US population [2], so roughly 30-40% of Americans believe that the 2nd Coming will likely occur in the next 40 years. To affirm this, 32% of Christians see the conflict in Syria as a sign of the End of Days [3].

What do y'all think this means for the future of the US? How do you think this mind set effects US policy at home and abroad? Should it effect how we as a people act in the world?

[1] http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
[2] https://www.cia.gov...
[3] http://www.patheos.com...
[4] http://www.livescience.com...

The Huffington Post link was nothing more than statistics which give no evidence of any religious danger.

I used it for the statistic, not analysis. That's why I brought it to the forum, for public analysis and opinion.

The CIA fact book only gives stats/percentages on religions per each country, saying nothing about belief in end times.

Duh. The CIA fact book was used to verify that 80% of Americans are Christians. Using both stats I could reasonably say 30-40% of Americans believe the End Times will happen within 40 years.

Patheos is basically a militant atheist website that are certainly not going to give any unbiased views. And the last link is very deceptive, and here is why:

Again, the source was just used for the statistic to affirm the idea that a large portion (roughly a third) of Americans believe the End Times are near. I leave the analysis of these facts to the public.

Harold Camping. During Camping's campaign, the major opponent, the voice that spoke against his campaign were Christians. Camping's teachings have been widely rejected for years by most Christians. And as his teachings became more off base, the more his teachings have been addressed and exposed by numerous Christians. The dangers of his teachings have been addressed for years....by Christians.

The point of adding that article was to show the dangers of fanaticism that can come with believing in doomsday predictions. Given that roughly a third or more of Americans believe the world will end in 40 years or less it's relevant to consider the mindset. It is Christians (at least in America) that hold this doomsday philosophy and they are a significant portion of the US population. That was the point of the OP, to ask and examine the implications of having such a large amount of people believing the world is going to end.

The Heaven's Gate group was a UFO cult. To call them Christian (amazing how they are conveniently Christian now) is very deceiving. They intermingled some Christianity as well as New Age religion, but basically they were a UFO cult just like any other. They took their UFOlogy (or UFO religion) to an extreme. We can just as easily address a danger of UFOlogy. And UFOlogy is very secular in nature, and can be equally atheistic in nature. There are people who believe that there really are these races of aliens (Greys, Reptilians, even Bigfoot, etc.) just like human racial/ethnic groups. They believe there really are intergalactic, or interplanetary organizations ala Star Trek just as there are global organizations like the U.N. These could be labeled as religious, but it's got nothing to do with Christianity other than fringe groups who relate UFOlogy to the Bible. For the most part, it's all very secular, shares the same bed with the theory of evolution, and any references to suicides can just as easily be attributed to society's fascination with UFOlogy as anything else.

I don't really see the point of this paragraph besides to say "secularists can be just as crazy as the religious". However there are 2 huge differences between these groups that pertain to the OP. First is size, UFO and other conspiracy nuts are a small disjointed portion of the population while doomsday Christians make up over a third of the US population. Second, political and social power; conspiracy nuts have none in contrast to the aforementioned third of the US who undoubtedly hold positions of authority in church and law and influence many people.

As far as fearing? The biggest thing to fear might just be the fear itself of religion. The hysteria as a result of fearing something that doesn't exist.

I don't understand what you're saying. I don't fear religion itself. I fear nut jobs in power who believe and makes decisions on the basis that Jesus is set to return.

For one, the U.S. is not a theocracy. Period. To make any reference to an American theocracy is a false allegation.

This is technically true, however being a predominantly Christian nation Christianity seems to take a cultural preference over other ways of looking at the world. This can be seen when Christian law makers attempt to restrict abortion and ban gay marriage or promote abstinence education and creationism in schools. It's especially amusing when Christians get upset when they can't put their monuments like the 10 Commandments and the Nativity Scene on public land as if they don't understand why.

And no, the end times prophesies themselves do not cause people to do crazy things.

Source [4] definitely shows that prophesies make people do crazy things, especially the near end date. But this goes to the OP; how does the existence of an expiration date effect national decision making? Global warming is a perfect example, do these Christians not care to tackle the issue because they think we wont have to deal with it in the long run?

From time to time, a charismatic leader will persuade some people to follow them, as was the case with Harold Camping.

He isn't the only one, many are hinting the Blood Moons could be a sign of the End Times [5]. Of these include John Hagee [6] who has an average attendance of 10,000 people [7]. That is certainly a powerful level of influence, which is why I think it's pointless to compare these kind of people to tin hat UFO or reptilian conspiracies. It's important to take the OP seriously. A large portion of people see the signs of the End Times happening now and I'm asking how is this going to effect our future? It's obvious that the world is not going to end, but how does the irrational mind set of imminent doom of such a large portion of the US effect how our nation handles crisis and other issues?

Many Americans have believed in the end times prophecies for years. During WWII, many thought Hitler was the anti-christ. This didn't have any profound negative effect on Americans. What it did do is cause many Christians to realize we really don't know the day or the hour as strongly recommended by Jesus Christ in scripture.

Yes and 13% of Americans believe Obama is the Anti-Christ [8] (although some think he's a lizard person), how do you think this effects our national politics? Even after WW2 there have been numerous doomsday prophecies, the point of the OP is to ask how this effects modern politics. Although from what you're saying I guess you're in the "not at all" camp.

[5] http://www.washingtonpost.com...
[6] http://www.cbn.com...
[7] http://www.statisticbrain.com...
[8] http://rt.com...
bulproof
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12/27/2014 9:28:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
For many of us who look from the outside we find the USA to be an alien culture. The fact that they maintain the same bronze age view of the world as their holy book does is quite alarming for those of us who have abandoned that nonsense for a more realistic view of even religion much less reality.
The fact that someone like dubya had his hand on the armageddon button is just beyond belief to the rest of the world. After all he invaded a country for no reason because his invisible sky fairy told him to.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
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12/27/2014 9:44:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/27/2014 7:44:56 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
The Heaven's Gate group was a UFO cult. To call them Christian (amazing how they are conveniently Christian now) is very deceiving. They intermingled some Christianity as well as New Age religion,

Would that make them as christian or less christian than the jehovians?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Bennett91
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12/27/2014 9:46:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/27/2014 9:44:13 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/27/2014 7:44:56 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
The Heaven's Gate group was a UFO cult. To call them Christian (amazing how they are conveniently Christian now) is very deceiving. They intermingled some Christianity as well as New Age religion,

Would that make them as christian or less christian than the jehovians?

Let's try to stick with the OP.
Wylted
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12/27/2014 10:29:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/27/2014 9:28:32 AM, bulproof wrote:
For many of us who look from the outside we find the USA to be an alien culture. The fact that they maintain the same bronze age view of the world as their holy book does is quite alarming for those of us who have abandoned that nonsense for a more realistic view of even religion much less reality.
The fact that someone like dubya had his hand on the armageddon button is just beyond belief to the rest of the world. After all he invaded a country for no reason because his invisible sky fairy told him to.

I don't think God told him to invade Iraq. I don't necessarily believe it was for the reasons he stated but it's very unlikely he went to the bible for advice on foreign policy.
Bennett91
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12/27/2014 10:39:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/27/2014 10:29:14 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 12/27/2014 9:28:32 AM, bulproof wrote:
For many of us who look from the outside we find the USA to be an alien culture. The fact that they maintain the same bronze age view of the world as their holy book does is quite alarming for those of us who have abandoned that nonsense for a more realistic view of even religion much less reality.
The fact that someone like dubya had his hand on the armageddon button is just beyond belief to the rest of the world. After all he invaded a country for no reason because his invisible sky fairy told him to.

I don't think God told him to invade Iraq. I don't necessarily believe it was for the reasons he stated but it's very unlikely he went to the bible for advice on foreign policy.

Bush at least claims that God told him to invade Iraq. http://www.theguardian.com...
Of course it could be a political ploy, but then again he could actually believe it, we can't say for 100% sure. But at least the idea of religion and divine intervention bringing about the End Times is somewhat pertinent to the OP. Wouldn't it be funny if God told Bush to invade Iraq so it would set the stage for ISIS and the signs as seen by the 32% of Christians mentioned in the OP?
Wylted
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12/27/2014 10:53:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/27/2014 10:39:23 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/27/2014 10:29:14 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 12/27/2014 9:28:32 AM, bulproof wrote:
For many of us who look from the outside we find the USA to be an alien culture. The fact that they maintain the same bronze age view of the world as their holy book does is quite alarming for those of us who have abandoned that nonsense for a more realistic view of even religion much less reality.
The fact that someone like dubya had his hand on the armageddon button is just beyond belief to the rest of the world. After all he invaded a country for no reason because his invisible sky fairy told him to.

I don't think God told him to invade Iraq. I don't necessarily believe it was for the reasons he stated but it's very unlikely he went to the bible for advice on foreign policy.

Bush at least claims that God told him to invade Iraq. http://www.theguardian.com...
Of course it could be a political ploy, but then again he could actually believe it, we can't say for 100% sure. But at least the idea of religion and divine intervention bringing about the End Times is somewhat pertinent to the OP. Wouldn't it be funny if God told Bush to invade Iraq so it would set the stage for ISIS and the signs as seen by the 32% of Christians mentioned in the OP?

That's the first time I've seen that. I'll check out the credibility of the witnesses and see what to think.

It was likely just rhetoric if true, though.
RoderickSpode
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12/27/2014 11:12:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/27/2014 9:10:48 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/27/2014 7:44:56 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:


The Huffington Post link was nothing more than statistics which give no evidence of any religious danger.

I used it for the statistic, not analysis. That's why I brought it to the forum, for public analysis and opinion.

I understand that.
The CIA fact book only gives stats/percentages on religions per each country, saying nothing about belief in end times.

Duh. The CIA fact book was used to verify that 80% of Americans are Christians. Using both stats I could reasonably say 30-40% of Americans believe the End Times will happen within 40 years.

Sure.
Patheos is basically a militant atheist website that are certainly not going to give any unbiased views. And the last link is very deceptive, and here is why:

Again, the source was just used for the statistic to affirm the idea that a large portion (roughly a third) of Americans believe the End Times are near. I leave the analysis of these facts to the public.

So it appears so far the evil culprit in the storyline are the Christians who believe the end times are near. The lesser villain might be the Christians who believe the end times will happen but not necessarily anytime soon. The innocent party running with the wrong crowd might be the Christians who don't believe in the end times at all. Is this about right?

The point of adding that article was to show the dangers of fanaticism that can come with believing in doomsday predictions. Given that roughly a third or more of Americans believe the world will end in 40 years or less it's relevant to consider the mindset. It is Christians (at least in America) that hold this doomsday philosophy and they are a significant portion of the US population. That was the point of the OP, to ask and examine the implications of having such a large amount of people believing the world is going to end.

The article didn't address Christians who believe the world will end in 40 years. The article addressed a man and his followers who believed the world would end on a particular date. The majority of Christians do not predict a date. We see the dangers in doing so, and have addressed them for years.

I don't really see the point of this paragraph besides to say "secularists can be just as crazy as the religious". However there are 2 huge differences between these groups that pertain to the OP. First is size, UFO and other conspiracy nuts are a small disjointed portion of the population while doomsday Christians make up over a third of the US population. Second, political and social power; conspiracy nuts have none in contrast to the aforementioned third of the US who undoubtedly hold positions of authority in church and law and influence many people.

You separated UFO conspiracy nuts from a large percentage of Americans who believe in UFOs, and then just referred to over a third of the country as being...I guess...nuts? Maybe I should ask, what do you mean by doomsday Christians? I believe the world will end one day, when I have no idea, but I wouldn't call myself a doomsday Christian. Do you consider anyone who believes that Jesus will return one day a doomsday Christian?

As far as fearing? The biggest thing to fear might just be the fear itself of religion. The hysteria as a result of fearing something that doesn't exist.

I don't understand what you're saying. I don't fear religion itself. I fear nut jobs in power who believe and makes decisions on the basis that Jesus is set to return.

That would be just about any Christian then. Just about any Christian believes that one day Jesus will return. So you basically fear the idea of any Christian holding any political office. I would speculate that Obama, at least by some of his confessions believes that Jesus will return one day.

For one, the U.S. is not a theocracy. Period. To make any reference to an American theocracy is a false allegation.

This is technically true, however being a predominantly Christian nation Christianity seems to take a cultural preference over other ways of looking at the world. This can be seen when Christian law makers attempt to restrict abortion and ban gay marriage or promote abstinence education and creationism in schools. It's especially amusing when Christians get upset when they can't put their monuments like the 10 Commandments and the Nativity Scene on public land as if they don't understand why.

Abortion and gay marriage are not religious issues. Abortion is a human life issue. Not all who oppose abortion are Christians. Not all who oppose gay marriage are Christians. There even gay individuals who oppose gay marriage. As far as Nativity Scenes on public land is concerned, the issue goes much deeper than that. We're talking about teachers not being allowed to wear a shirt that has a Christian emblem on it, cheerleaders not being allowed to put scriptures on signs, etc.

Source [4] definitely shows that prophesies make people do crazy things, especially the near end date. But this goes to the OP; how does the existence of an expiration date effect national decision making? Global warming is a perfect example, do these Christians not care to tackle the issue because they think we wont have to deal with it in the long run?

No, source [4] definitely does not show that prophesies make people do crazy things. Harold Camping did not give a Biblical prophesy. He gave a prediction using a specific date. This caused his followers to believe that by the dates he used in May and October being the end of the world, there was no reason to live as we normally do. Do you see the humungous difference?

As far as GW, again, it's not a religious issue. There are scientists with no particular profession of faith who are against it. Any reference to why a Christian is against it would be speculation.

RoderickSpode
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12/27/2014 11:33:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/27/2014 9:10:48 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/27/2014 7:44:56 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:

From time to time, a charismatic leader will persuade some people to follow them, as was the case with Harold Camping.

He isn't the only one, many are hinting the Blood Moons could be a sign of the End Times [5]. Of these include John Hagee [6] who has an average attendance of 10,000 people [7]. That is certainly a powerful level of influence, which is why I think it's pointless to compare these kind of people to tin hat UFO or reptilian conspiracies. It's important to take the OP seriously. A large portion of people see the signs of the End Times happening now and I'm asking how is this going to effect our future? It's obvious that the world is not going to end, but how does the irrational mind set of imminent doom of such a large portion of the US effect how our nation handles crisis and other issues?

There is a huge difference between addressing signs of the end times, and predicting a clear cut date. The Bible refers to signs. From my experience, most Christians see the end times as a reason to be all the more productive in all areas of life, and essentially live life to it's fullest. Not quit working, not drop out of school. not commit suicide, etc. I think it should be noted that the U.S. with it's historic record of....Christian doomsday believers has done quite well over the years, being one of the freer nations on the planet and such.

Many Americans have believed in the end times prophecies for years. During WWII, many thought Hitler was the anti-christ. This didn't have any profound negative effect on Americans. What it did do is cause many Christians to realize we really don't know the day or the hour as strongly recommended by Jesus Christ in scripture.

Yes and 13% of Americans believe Obama is the Anti-Christ [8] (although some think he's a lizard person), how do you think this effects our national politics? Even after WW2 there have been numerous doomsday prophecies, the point of the OP is to ask how this effects modern politics. Although from what you're saying I guess you're in the "not at all" camp.

I'll put it this way. I don't see any evidence of any fringe doomsday predictions where specific dates were given like that of Harold Camping influencing politics at all.

The gist of what I think you're getting at is if Americans continue to believe in the return of Jesus, we would become an early European type theocracy, and our politicians might try to create an armaggedon since it's viewed it will happen anyway. Well, anything is possible. It's also possible we could become a totalitarian nation where all religions are banned. I don't see any evidence of our nation becoming anything like an early European theocracy. And Harold Camping was not in the same category as a Christian who believes one day Jesus will return. Although I'm not a follower of John Haggee, there's a big difference between his prophetic references, and Harold Camping's predictions that had specific dates. People aren't committing suicide because of Biblical references to the sign of the end times (I say that a bit cautiously because you might be able to google some random incident).
DanneJeRusse
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12/27/2014 12:09:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/27/2014 3:29:04 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
According to this survey of US Christians, 27% of those polled say Jesus will definitely return and 20% say he'll probably return by 2050 [1]. That's nearly 50% of Christians.

I personally think this mindset is dangerous. It terrifies me ...

It should terrify us all, this mindset is very dangerous for humanity, always has been, it is mostly the reason why our world is in such a bad state, the religious mindset is to blame as it has been shaping and molding our societies for centuries, often with bloodshed and atrocities.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
IEnglishman
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12/27/2014 12:50:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/27/2014 9:28:32 AM, bulproof wrote:
For many of us who look from the outside we find the USA to be an alien culture. The fact that they maintain the same bronze age view of the world as their holy book does is quite alarming for those of us who have abandoned that nonsense for a more realistic view of even religion much less reality.
The fact that someone like dubya had his hand on the armageddon button is just beyond belief to the rest of the world. After all he invaded a country for no reason because his invisible sky fairy told him to.

So because a view of the world is old-fashioned, that makes it wrong?

yourlogicalfallacyis.com/genetic-fallacy
Bulproof admits he's a troll http://www.debate.org... (see post 16). Do not feed.
Bennett91
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12/28/2014 1:15:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/27/2014 11:12:48 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 12/27/2014 9:10:48 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/27/2014 7:44:56 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:

Again, the source was just used for the statistic to affirm the idea that a large portion (roughly a third) of Americans believe the End Times are near. I leave the analysis of these facts to the public.

So it appears so far the evil culprit in the storyline are the Christians who believe the end times are near.

The stats provided do not tell a story. The OP is asking about how the belief in End Time effects or should effect public policy.

The lesser villain might be the Christians who believe the end times will happen but not necessarily anytime soon. The innocent party running with the wrong crowd might be the Christians who don't believe in the end times at all. Is this about right?

I don't know or care about these moderate groups in regard to the OP.

The point of adding that article was to show the dangers of fanaticism that can come with believing in doomsday predictions. Given that roughly a third or more of Americans believe the world will end in 40 years or less it's relevant to consider the mindset. It is Christians (at least in America) that hold this doomsday philosophy and they are a significant portion of the US population. That was the point of the OP, to ask and examine the implications of having such a large amount of people believing the world is going to end.

The article didn't address Christians who believe the world will end in 40 years. The article addressed a man and his followers who believed the world would end on a particular date. The majority of Christians do not predict a date. We see the dangers in doing so, and have addressed them for years.

It's like I;m being up front about the point of the articles in the OP yet you're still being defensive and straw manning me. The article obviously is not about current doomsday predictions but it gives an example of what people will do in such a scenario. Furthermore a set precise date is not necessary given that a time line has been set. Many believe that within their life time Jesus will return or perhaps even in the next couple years in coincidence with the blood moons. There is a general feeling of End Times and the OP is asking for thoughts on the consequences. Who knows maybe if the Republicans take the White House the doomsday mindset will encourage a war in Syria in an attempt to trigger the 2nd coming.

You separated UFO conspiracy nuts from a large percentage of Americans who believe in UFOs,

Does the belief in UFO's garner significant political and social clout? No? Moving on.

and then just referred to over a third of the country as being...I guess...nuts? Maybe I should ask, what do you mean by doomsday Christians? I believe the world will end one day, when I have no idea, but I wouldn't call myself a doomsday Christian. Do you consider anyone who believes that Jesus will return one day a doomsday Christian?

I define a doomsday Christan as defined in the OP, a Christian that believes the End Times will probably happen within the next 40 years. In regards to those who don't think Jesus will be returning soon they are not relevant to the OP mainly because they could be having long term plans beyond 40 years. Although they make up roughly half the Christian population so it could be argued cooler heads may prevail.

That would be just about any Christian then. Just about any Christian believes that one day Jesus will return. So you basically fear the idea of any Christian holding any political office. I would speculate that Obama, at least by some of his confessions believes that Jesus will return one day.

As you've pointed out not all Christians are doomsdayers, there's a difference in mindset. As for Christians holding public office, I'd prefer they leave their religion at the door when they assume the role of representing the American people, but many don't.

For one, the U.S. is not a theocracy. Period. To make any reference to an American theocracy is a false allegation.

This is technically true, however being a predominantly Christian nation Christianity seems to take a cultural preference over other ways of looking at the world. This can be seen when Christian law makers attempt to restrict abortion and ban gay marriage or promote abstinence education and creationism in schools. It's especially amusing when Christians get upset when they can't put their monuments like the 10 Commandments and the Nativity Scene on public land as if they don't understand why.

Abortion and gay marriage are not religious issues. Abortion is a human life issue. Not all who oppose abortion are Christians. Not all who oppose gay marriage are Christians. There even gay individuals who oppose gay marriage. As far as Nativity Scenes on public land is concerned, the issue goes much deeper than that. We're talking about teachers not being allowed to wear a shirt that has a Christian emblem on it, cheerleaders not being allowed to put scriptures on signs, etc.

Those who fund opposition groups (i.e have political power) against gay marriage and abortion are unanimously religious organizations. Your teacher and cheerleader examples are perfect for showing just how ignorant Christians are on the issue. Boo whoo we can't advertise our religion in a forum that has nothing to do with religious expression! Seriously read the First Amendment and legal writings on the Separation of Church and State.

Source [4] definitely shows that prophesies make people do crazy things, especially the near end date. But this goes to the OP; how does the existence of an expiration date effect national decision making? Global warming is a perfect example, do these Christians not care to tackle the issue because they think we wont have to deal with it in the long run?

No, source [4] definitely does not show that prophesies make people do crazy things. Harold Camping did not give a Biblical prophesy. He gave a prediction using a specific date. This caused his followers to believe that by the dates he used in May and October being the end of the world, there was no reason to live as we normally do. Do you see the humungous difference?

*sigh* Camping claimed to have gotten his prophesy from the Bible. I don't care about the validity or accuracies of his interpretation. Nor do I care about what the Bible really says. All that matters is that there are Christian oriented doomsday prophesies floating around and a 3rd of Americans believe it. The point being, and I've made it quite clear is that a precise date is not necessary. It's possible that just the idea of believing in an expiration date (40 year) may cause people to act irrationally or attempt to trigger the End Times.

As far as GW, again, it's not a religious issue. There are scientists with no particular profession of faith who are against it. Any reference to why a Christian is against it would be speculation.

Idk what GW is.
Bennett91
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12/28/2014 1:23:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/27/2014 11:33:27 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 12/27/2014 9:10:48 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/27/2014 7:44:56 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:

From time to time, a charismatic leader will persuade some people to follow them, as was the case with Harold Camping.

He isn't the only one, many are hinting the Blood Moons could be a sign of the End Times [5]. Of these include John Hagee [6] who has an average attendance of 10,000 people [7]. That is certainly a powerful level of influence, which is why I think it's pointless to compare these kind of people to tin hat UFO or reptilian conspiracies. It's important to take the OP seriously. A large portion of people see the signs of the End Times happening now and I'm asking how is this going to effect our future? It's obvious that the world is not going to end, but how does the irrational mind set of imminent doom of such a large portion of the US effect how our nation handles crisis and other issues?

There is a huge difference between addressing signs of the end times, and predicting a clear cut date. The Bible refers to signs. From my experience, most Christians see the end times as a reason to be all the more productive in all areas of life, and essentially live life to it's fullest. Not quit working, not drop out of school. not commit suicide, etc. I think it should be noted that the U.S. with it's historic record of....Christian doomsday believers has done quite well over the years, being one of the freer nations on the planet and such.

But the question is working towards what? I'm not saying Christians will abandon work, I'm asking where are they putting their priorities? If a third of the country is preparing for the soon end they are not preparing for the future, and where does that leave us as a country?

Many Americans have believed in the end times prophecies for years. During WWII, many thought Hitler was the anti-christ. This didn't have any profound negative effect on Americans. What it did do is cause many Christians to realize we really don't know the day or the hour as strongly recommended by Jesus Christ in scripture.

Yes and 13% of Americans believe Obama is the Anti-Christ [8] (although some think he's a lizard person), how do you think this effects our national politics? Even after WW2 there have been numerous doomsday prophecies, the point of the OP is to ask how this effects modern politics. Although from what you're saying I guess you're in the "not at all" camp.

I'll put it this way. I don't see any evidence of any fringe doomsday predictions where specific dates were given like that of Harold Camping influencing politics at all.

..... again, roughly a 3rd of Americans believe the world will end in 40 years. No precise date is required in order to establish a rough mindset as to what these people are thinking.

The gist of what I think you're getting at is if Americans continue to believe in the return of Jesus, we would become an early European type theocracy, and our politicians might try to create an armaggedon since it's viewed it will happen anyway.

I don't know where you're getting the European part from, generally I'm saying that a belief in soon End Times promotes a short sighted mindset that leave us vulnerable in the future.

Well, anything is possible. It's also possible we could become a totalitarian nation where all religions are banned. I don't see any evidence of our nation becoming anything like an early European theocracy. And Harold Camping was not in the same category as a Christian who believes one day Jesus will return. Although I'm not a follower of John Haggee, there's a big difference between his prophetic references, and Harold Camping's predictions that had specific dates.

Again, Camping's precise date is not that important. The article that brought up Camping was just to show how extreme the doomsday mindset can cause people to go. People today already profess seeing signs of The End, it's not a hard leap to think they have a short sighted mindset. And if enough people have this mindset (roughly a third of the US population) then the OP is asking what effects this short sighted mindset will have on the future of this country.
bulproof
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12/28/2014 5:42:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/27/2014 10:29:14 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 12/27/2014 9:28:32 AM, bulproof wrote:
For many of us who look from the outside we find the USA to be an alien culture. The fact that they maintain the same bronze age view of the world as their holy book does is quite alarming for those of us who have abandoned that nonsense for a more realistic view of even religion much less reality.
The fact that someone like dubya had his hand on the armageddon button is just beyond belief to the rest of the world. After all he invaded a country for no reason because his invisible sky fairy told him to.

I don't think God told him to invade Iraq. I don't necessarily believe it was for the reasons he stated but it's very unlikely he went to the bible for advice on foreign policy.

Good for you, I hope you don't mind if I ignore this.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
RoderickSpode
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12/28/2014 10:35:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/28/2014 1:15:51 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/27/2014 11:12:48 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:

The stats provided do not tell a story. The OP is asking about how the belief in End Time effects or should effect public policy.

Alright.

I don't know or care about these moderate groups in regard to the OP.

Alright.


It's like I;m being up front about the point of the articles in the OP yet you're still being defensive and straw manning me. The article obviously is not about current doomsday predictions but it gives an example of what people will do in such a scenario. Furthermore a set precise date is not necessary given that a time line has been set. Many believe that within their life time Jesus will return or perhaps even in the next couple years in coincidence with the blood moons. There is a general feeling of End Times and the OP is asking for thoughts on the consequences. Who knows maybe if the Republicans take the White House the doomsday mindset will encourage a war in Syria in an attempt to trigger the 2nd coming.

I'm sorry but the article is only addressing a scenario when a particular date is set. And the date was set, if I recall correctly, about 2 years prior. It doesn't present a what people will do in a scenario where people believe the end is near, even within a particular time period. All throughout American history Christians, including politicians believed the end was near. The mindset is nothing new. As far as possibilities, sure it's possible some politician could come along and trigger a war in an attempt to trigger the 2nd coming, on the basis of anything being possible. But, there's no reason to assume such a thing. It's also possible that a politician could come along, so drenched in Dawkinsism, Hitchinsism, etc., and create a law outlawing religion. Do you think that's possible? If so, do you think it's any less possible?

Does the belief in UFO's garner significant political and social clout? No? Moving on.

Not so fast. You don't think UFOs including UFO investigation is not a political issue? Other nations do it. The United States has funded projects in the past like SETI and Project Blue Book. There's no reason to suggest they won't do it again when they feel it would be profitable. There are certainly Americans who hold personal beliefs pertaining to UFOs, which is really what this whole issue is about concerning the End Times...personal beliefs from potential Christian politicians.

I define a doomsday Christan as defined in the OP, a Christian that believes the End Times will probably happen within the next 40 years. In regards to those who don't think Jesus will be returning soon they are not relevant to the OP mainly because they could be having long term plans beyond 40 years. Although they make up roughly half the Christian population so it could be argued cooler heads may prevail.

I don't see any visible reason to think a Christian who thinks Christ will return within 40 years will conduct his life any different than one who thinks the return won't happen for another 2,000 years, or leave it completely open.

As you've pointed out not all Christians are doomsdayers, there's a difference in mindset. As for Christians holding public office, I'd prefer they leave their religion at the door when they assume the role of representing the American people, but many don't.

Yes, but I don't consider someone who believes that Jesus will return within 40 years is a doomsdayer either (What about 60 years? What about 100? Is 40 years the magic cutoff?). There are some Christians who simply read the description of Christ's return, and relate it to world events, natural disasters, etc., and conclude that the current signs strongly suggest Christ returning soon. I personally don't see it that way, but I also don't blame them for it. I certainly don't think it's impossible that Christ could return within 40 years. But the main thing is, there is no danger involved except within the minds of those who speculate danger.


Those who fund opposition groups (i.e have political power) against gay marriage and abortion are unanimously religious organizations. Your teacher and cheerleader examples are perfect for showing just how ignorant Christians are on the issue. Boo whoo we can't advertise our religion in a forum that has nothing to do with religious expression! Seriously read the First Amendment and legal writings on the Separation of Church and State.

I don't know. Do religious organizations fund anti-abortion groups like Secular Pro-Life and Pro-Life Humanists?

Does the fact that atheist activist groups are the one's involved with having religious icons removed from public land make the nativity scene an atheist issue?

As far as gay marriage goes, since you brought it up, gay rights initially involved the demand that the act of homosexuality should be permitted. There was not a lot of dispute to this, as even most Christians concluded that what people do in the bedroom is their private affair. So Christians, as a whole, were not a against gay rights. Now we've moved onto same-sex marriage being a part of the gay rights issue. So now a historic institution involving a man and woman is being changed. While the majority of those who oppose that change are probably religious, it's not relegated to the religious. So in that sense, it's not a religious issue. It's an issue involving the changing of a historic institution. In my opinion, it's considered more of a religious issue now because I think it's become a bandwagon to jump on for those who may not even feel that strongly about it other than it's one way to oppose American Christian culture/influence. For instance, atheist activist groups only support gay marriage unanimously verbally. Naturally they support it in principle, but not in action.

The interesting thing is, gay rights now demands a minority status. And one thing common among minority groups are empowerment groups like media watch groups. These types of groups have annoyed White Americans for years. There is a gay media watch group. They've protested the movie starring Will Smith called Hancock due to a negative reference to homosexuality. This means that in the future, the comedies that use language that offends gay people, that would be considered light non-offensive humor by everyone else, would have to be removed (which would be fine by me).

How about you? Do you think the movie industry movie should censor that scene in Hancock that offends the gay media watch group?

http://www.metroweekly.com...

The reason I bring this up is because the gay marriage (gay rights) issue stretches beyond religion.

As far as this goes:

Your teacher and cheerleader examples are perfect for showing just how ignorant Christians are on the issue. Boo whoo we can't advertise our religion in a forum that has nothing to do with religious expression! Seriously read the First Amendment and legal writings on the Separation of Church and State.

The first amendment, and the Separation of Church and State were meant to protect religion, not remove it from the public. Obviously the definition has changed over the years. During the very same time period that these were written, church services were held right within the Capitol itself on Sunday mornings. Never mind teachers wearing Christian T-shirts.....bibles were used in public classrooms. And what makes you think I haven't read the First Amendment, and the letter to the Danbury Baptists?

As far as Boo whooing, can you expound on that a bit? Does anyone who protests practice this boo whooing? For instance, are Native Americans who protest Washington Redskins games
RoderickSpode
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12/28/2014 10:44:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/28/2014 1:15:51 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/27/2014 11:12:48 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 12/27/2014 9:10:48 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/27/2014 7:44:56 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:


Source [4] definitely shows that prophesies make people do crazy things, especially the near end date. But this goes to the OP; how does the existence of an expiration date effect national decision making? Global warming is a perfect example, do these Christians not care to tackle the issue because they think we wont have to deal with it in the long run?

No, source [4] definitely does not show that prophesies make people do crazy things. Harold Camping did not give a Biblical prophesy. He gave a prediction using a specific date. This caused his followers to believe that by the dates he used in May and October being the end of the world, there was no reason to live as we normally do. Do you see the humungous difference?

*sigh* Camping claimed to have gotten his prophesy from the Bible. I don't care about the validity or accuracies of his interpretation. Nor do I care about what the Bible really says. All that matters is that there are Christian oriented doomsday prophesies floating around and a 3rd of Americans believe it. The point being, and I've made it quite clear is that a precise date is not necessary. It's possible that just the idea of believing in an expiration date (40 year) may cause people to act irrationally or attempt to trigger the End Times.

Anythings possible. But where's the sign of this? (Preferably other than George Bush, but go ahead if need be). You can't use Camping as a sign of this. Are those who follow Hagee's teachings doing something odd that I don't know about?

As far as GW, again, it's not a religious issue. There are scientists with no particular profession of faith who are against it. Any reference to why a Christian is against it would be speculation.

Idk what GW is.
GW=Global Warming.
RoderickSpode
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12/28/2014 11:02:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/28/2014 1:23:56 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/27/2014 11:33:27 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 12/27/2014 9:10:48 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/27/2014 7:44:56 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:

From time to time, a charismatic leader will persuade some people to follow them, as was the case with Harold Camping.

He isn't the only one, many are hinting the Blood Moons could be a sign of the End Times [5]. Of these include John Hagee [6] who has an average attendance of 10,000 people [7]. That is certainly a powerful level of influence, which is why I think it's pointless to compare these kind of people to tin hat UFO or reptilian conspiracies. It's important to take the OP seriously. A large portion of people see the signs of the End Times happening now and I'm asking how is this going to effect our future? It's obvious that the world is not going to end, but how does the irrational mind set of imminent doom of such a large portion of the US effect how our nation handles crisis and other issues?

There is a huge difference between addressing signs of the end times, and predicting a clear cut date. The Bible refers to signs. From my experience, most Christians see the end times as a reason to be all the more productive in all areas of life, and essentially live life to it's fullest. Not quit working, not drop out of school. not commit suicide, etc. I think it should be noted that the U.S. with it's historic record of....Christian doomsday believers has done quite well over the years, being one of the freer nations on the planet and such.

But the question is working towards what? I'm not saying Christians will abandon work, I'm asking where are they putting their priorities? If a third of the country is preparing for the soon end they are not preparing for the future, and where does that leave us as a country?

For one, there are many Christians in various fields of science who are doing research to better the lives of everyone in the present.....and yes, the future. There are Christian police officers who are trying to protect citizens which benefit us in the present.....as well as future generations. Why? What do you think Christians are doing to prepare for Christ's return? Do you see Christians carrying rifles and heading into the mountains?
Many Americans have believed in the end times prophecies for years. During WWII, many thought Hitler was the anti-christ. This didn't have any profound negative effect on Americans. What it did do is cause many Christians to realize we really don't know the day or the hour as strongly recommended by Jesus Christ in scripture.

Yes and 13% of Americans believe Obama is the Anti-Christ [8] (although some think he's a lizard person), how do you think this effects our national politics? Even after WW2 there have been numerous doomsday prophecies, the point of the OP is to ask how this effects modern politics. Although from what you're saying I guess you're in the "not at all" camp.

I'll put it this way. I don't see any evidence of any fringe doomsday predictions where specific dates were given like that of Harold Camping influencing politics at all.

..... again, roughly a 3rd of Americans believe the world will end in 40 years. No precise date is required in order to establish a rough mindset as to what these people are thinking.

Hypothetically, I suppose not. But what do you think these people are thinking, and why?
The gist of what I think you're getting at is if Americans continue to believe in the return of Jesus, we would become an early European type theocracy, and our politicians might try to create an armaggedon since it's viewed it will happen anyway.

I don't know where you're getting the European part from, generally I'm saying that a belief in soon End Times promotes a short sighted mindset that leave us vulnerable in the future.

Vulnerable to what? Is there someone in particular, like a politician who you think is going to cause a military conflict to foster in the return of Jesus Christ?

Well, anything is possible. It's also possible we could become a totalitarian nation where all religions are banned. I don't see any evidence of our nation becoming anything like an early European theocracy. And Harold Camping was not in the same category as a Christian who believes one day Jesus will return. Although I'm not a follower of John Haggee, there's a big difference between his prophetic references, and Harold Camping's predictions that had specific dates.

Again, Camping's precise date is not that important. The article that brought up Camping was just to show how extreme the doomsday mindset can cause people to go. People today already profess seeing signs of The End, it's not a hard leap to think they have a short sighted mindset. And if enough people have this mindset (roughly a third of the US population) then the OP is asking what effects this short sighted mindset will have on the future of this country.

Of course if you're just wanting opinions, I think you already know mine as you've indicated earlier.

But your OP is one of many that suggest a danger in the Christian (or religion) mindset in general. What is interesting is that there never seems to be a suggestion of an answer to what should be done about stated problem. Typically, if someone presents something as a problem, they may do what you do and present the problem, and ask others what they think of the problem. And then provide a possible answer to the problem, and ask others what they think of the possible answer to the problem. If something is really a problem or threat, it would stand for reason that suggestions should be made on what to do with stated problem. But we never really seem to see that in regards to this great threat to mankind called religion and/or Christianity.
RoderickSpode
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12/28/2014 11:12:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/28/2014 1:15:51 AM, Bennett91 wrote:


Those who fund opposition groups (i.e have political power) against gay marriage and abortion are unanimously religious organizations. Your teacher and cheerleader examples are perfect for showing just how ignorant Christians are on the issue. Boo whoo we can't advertise our religion in a forum that has nothing to do with religious expression! Seriously read the First Amendment and legal writings on the Separation of Church and State.





I thought I edited this enough to not have this cut off.

As far as Boo whooing, can you expound on that a bit? Does anyone who protests practice this boo whooing? For instance, are Native Americans who protest Washington Redskins games

Basically what I'm asking is, what is your justification for stating that Christians are boo whooing when they protest certain actions from others that involve their personal rights, when there are many cases of various groups and individuals that protest actions they feel threaten their rights, or are an offense to their group? Like the Native Americans who protest at Washington Redskin football games because of the refusal to change the nickname they use that is deemed highly offensive. Are the Native Americans who are protesting at the Washington Redskins games boo whooing as well?
annanicole
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12/28/2014 11:21:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/27/2014 3:29:04 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
According to this survey of US Christians, 27% of those polled say Jesus will definitely return and 20% say he'll probably return by 2050 [1]. That's nearly 50% of Christians.

You should be dealing with only the 20% who have mapped out a time-scale.

Christians make up almost 80% of the US population [2], so roughly 30-40% of Americans believe that the 2nd Coming will likely occur in the next 40 years. To affirm this, 32% of Christians see the conflict in Syria as a sign of the End of Days [3].

Then 32% are nutcases.

What do y'all think this means for the future of the US? How do you think this mind set effects US policy at home and abroad? Should it effect how we as a people act in the world?

Yes, it affects foreign policy.

I personally think this mindset is dangerous. It terrifies me to think that people who think the world is ending soon may be in positions of power. This mindset makes people focus on the short term, away from finding solutions to problems that will most definitely be around in our future like global warming. It makes an excuse to keep the US under theocratic control, because why would the religious relinquish power or give up their cause when they believe they preparing Jesus's kingdom which is just around the corner? Not only that, but in general "End Time" prophesies cause people to do crazy things like parents trying to kill their children and themselves and other cases of suicides [4].

Correct

Most of it is due to the ridiculous doctrine of premillennialism
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Bennett91
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12/28/2014 7:59:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
To respond I'm just going to cut and paste the various things you've said to try and condense it into one response.

All throughout American history Christians, including politicians believed the end was near. The mindset is nothing new.

This is a fair observation and contention against the OP.

It's also possible that a politician could come along, so drenched in Dawkinsism, Hitchinsism, etc., and create a law outlawing religion. Do you think that's possible? If so, do you think it's any less possible?

What is Hitchinism and Dawkinism? Do I think it's possible? Well given that atheists are the least trusted group in America and a law banning religion would be immediately struck down as unconstitutional I'd say no.

Not so fast. You don't think UFOs including UFO investigation is not a political issue? Other nations do it. The United States has funded projects in the past like SETI and Project Blue Book. There's no reason to suggest they won't do it again when they feel it would be profitable. There are certainly Americans who hold personal beliefs pertaining to UFOs, which is really what this whole issue is about concerning the End Times...personal beliefs from potential Christian politicians.

It's a minor political issue to some for sure, but the caveat was "social and political clout". No serious politician on the national stage is running a campaign talking about UFO's or reptilians. In general I don't think alien cover ups are a voting issue for the public. Christians have way more power than the UFO camp will ever have.

I don't see any visible reason to think a Christian who thinks Christ will return within 40 years will conduct his life any different than one who thinks the return won't happen for another 2,000 years, or leave it completely open.

As mentioned before by you there are possibilities. I can see a few scenarios, perhaps a person will rack up credit card debt hoping the End will come sooner rather than later.

Yes, but I don't consider someone who believes that Jesus will return within 40 years is a doomsdayer either (What about 60 years? What about 100? Is 40 years the magic cutoff?).

Given that the poll only addresses the next 40 years, yes it's the magic cutoff.

I don't know. Do religious organizations fund anti-abortion groups like Secular Pro-Life and Pro-Life Humanists?

Perhaps unanimous was too strong of rhetoric. However the majority (80%) of non-religious people are pro-choice while the religious tend to be slightly more pro-life. http://www.gallup.com...

Does the fact that atheist activist groups are the one's involved with having religious icons removed from public land make the nativity scene an atheist issue?

No it makes it a constitutional issue. Atheists just happen to be the ones who are holding government accountable to it. But sometimes groups don't opt to take the monument away. There are cases where satanists petition to have their monuments put up right along side the christian one. That way it is fair for all religions. Fair of course being defined as either no religion has a right to put up monuments or all do.

gay rights initially involved the demand that the act of homosexuality should be permitted. There was not a lot of dispute to this, as even most Christians concluded that what people do in the bedroom is their private affair. So Christians, as a whole, were not a against gay rights.

I don't know how you define "not a lot of dispute" but anti-sodomy laws were eventually taken to the Supreme Court and ruled unconstitutional in 2003 http://en.wikipedia.org.... So did Christians conclude this bedroom privacy thing before or after SCOTUS decided? Because before they decided 13 other states had anti sodomy laws so I think you don't know what you're talking about. Christians may not have been against it as a whole, but certainly Christian legislators were passing those (unconstitutional) anti-sodomy laws.

While the majority of those who oppose that change are probably religious, it's not relegated to the religious. So in that sense, it's not a religious issue.

I have yet to hear a convincing secular argument against gay marriage (or abortion for that matter) and the most vocal anti-gay folks invoke the religion argument.

For instance, atheist activist groups only support gay marriage unanimously verbally. Naturally they support it in principle, but not in action.

... this doesn't make sense, atheists say they support gay marriage but don't support gays actually getting married? Lol? Or perhaps you mean that atheists aren't protesting enough to make gay marriage legal? Well it's already happening in the courts. Atheists don't need to act.

The interesting thing is, gay rights now demands a minority status. And one thing common among minority groups are empowerment groups like media watch groups. These types of groups have annoyed White Americans for years.

Gays do have protected status in some states to protect them from being fired on the base of sexuality. That's another gay rights issue, not getting fired for being gay (where it's legal in 29 states http://www.huffingtonpost.com...) And oh no! The worst thing a human can do is annoy White Americans! Because there's no such thing as gay white people! lol

How about you? Do you think the movie industry movie should censor that scene in Hancock that offends the gay media watch group?

IDK if you've noticed my whole constitutionality shtick but no, I don't support censorship as it violates the first amendment.

As far as [Global Warming], again, it's not a religious issue. There are scientists with no particular profession of faith who are against it. Any reference to why a Christian is against it would be speculation.

Those anti-GW scientists are an extreme minority. But anyways, I never said GW was a religious issue, it was an example of short sighted thinking. You know, "we don't need to fix GW because the world is going to end" type thinking.
Bennett91
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12/28/2014 8:15:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Missed this part:

But your OP is one of many that suggest a danger in the Christian (or religion) mindset in general.

I've said pretty clearly that the OP refers to doomsdayers, not the whole.

What is interesting is that there never seems to be a suggestion of an answer to what should be done about stated problem.

Well duh. That's part of the discussion. How do e deal with a 3rd of American citizens and other nuts who think the End is nigh? IDK. Telling them that the world isn't going to end wouldn't seem effective and we can't just round them all up.

As far as Boo whooing, can you expound on that a bit? Does anyone who protests practice this boo whooing? For instance, are Native Americans who protest Washington Redskins games

Basically what I'm asking is, what is your justification for stating that Christians are boo whooing when they protest certain actions from others that involve their personal rights, when there are many cases of various groups and individuals that protest actions they feel threaten their rights, or are an offense to their group? Like the Native Americans who protest at Washington Redskin football games because of the refusal to change the nickname they use that is deemed highly offensive. Are the Native Americans who are protesting at the Washington Redskins games boo whooing as well?

It's a matter of constitutionality. The Redskins don't have to change if they don't want to, just as the makers of Handcock don't have to censor their movie if they don't want to. But when I refer to Christian boo hooing it is in the context of Christians doing unconstitutional things and then complaining when it gets pointed out. The cheerleader example is a good one. Why does God need to be visible at a sports game? What are the non-Christians (especially that players) suppose to think when they see this? With the school teacher, it's a place of learning, there's no need for religious advertisements especially from an authority figure like the teacher. If you understand the first amendment then I expect you to understand what I'm saying here.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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12/28/2014 8:15:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/27/2014 3:29:04 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
According to this survey of US Christians, 27% of those polled say Jesus will definitely return and 20% say he'll probably return by 2050 [1]. That's nearly 50% of Christians. Christians make up almost 80% of the US population [2], so roughly 30-40% of Americans believe that the 2nd Coming will likely occur in the next 40 years. To affirm this, 32% of Christians see the conflict in Syria as a sign of the End of Days [3].

What do y'all think this means for the future of the US? How do you think this mind set effects US policy at home and abroad? Should it effect how we as a people act in the world?

I personally think this mindset is dangerous. It terrifies me to think that people who think the world is ending soon may be in positions of power. This mindset makes people focus on the short term, away from finding solutions to problems that will most definitely be around in our future like global warming. It makes an excuse to keep the US under theocratic control, because why would the religious relinquish power or give up their cause when they believe they preparing Jesus's kingdom which is just around the corner? Not only that, but in general "End Time" prophesies cause people to do crazy things like parents trying to kill their children and themselves and other cases of suicides [4].

[1] http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
[2] https://www.cia.gov...
[3] http://www.patheos.com...
[4] http://www.livescience.com...

What are you afraid of? I'm not afraid of anything. The whole world is going to go to battle against Israel. Does that bother you? Pretty much the entire world is determined to see the USA fall from power ASAP...does that scare you?
The things that are going to happen were foretold in the Bible thousands of years ago, and notihing is going to stop them from happening. Russia will attack Israel. China will attack Israel. The USA, I"m guessing will be a province of China at that time.
The Muslim nations are making their alliances with Russia and China getting ready for the battle that is approaching...Iran is with Russio, Saudi Arabia is with China, China practically owns the USA by default, our borders are wide open inviting every stranger and enemy who desires to come in...........

Don't be afraid. Jesus is coming back........ooops.....oh yeah.......you can't help but be afriad because you have nobody you can trust to rule the world.
Vox_Veritas
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12/28/2014 8:43:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/27/2014 3:29:04 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
According to this survey of US Christians, 27% of those polled say Jesus will definitely return and 20% say he'll probably return by 2050 [1]. That's nearly 50% of Christians. Christians make up almost 80% of the US population [2], so roughly 30-40% of Americans believe that the 2nd Coming will likely occur in the next 40 years. To affirm this, 32% of Christians see the conflict in Syria as a sign of the End of Days [3].

What do y'all think this means for the future of the US? How do you think this mind set effects US policy at home and abroad? Should it effect how we as a people act in the world?

I personally think this mindset is dangerous. It terrifies me to think that people who think the world is ending soon may be in positions of power. This mindset makes people focus on the short term, away from finding solutions to problems that will most definitely be around in our future like global warming. It makes an excuse to keep the US under theocratic control, because why would the religious relinquish power or give up their cause when they believe they preparing Jesus's kingdom which is just around the corner? Not only that, but in general "End Time" prophesies cause people to do crazy things like parents trying to kill their children and themselves and other cases of suicides [4].

[1] http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
[2] https://www.cia.gov...
[3] http://www.patheos.com...
[4] http://www.livescience.com...

Why's it necessarily a bad thing to believe that Jesus is likely coming back sometime in the next 35 years?
I believe He'll be coming back because He said He would, but He may delay it as long as He wants, even for another 2000 years, and I think that there's still a good amount of time left before He returns. That being said, why should people who believe in the imminent return of Jesus Christ be kept from public policy?
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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Vox_Veritas
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12/28/2014 8:45:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/27/2014 9:28:32 AM, bulproof wrote:
For many of us who look from the outside we find the USA to be an alien culture. The fact that they maintain the same bronze age view of the world as their holy book does is quite alarming for those of us who have abandoned that nonsense for a more realistic view of even religion much less reality.
The fact that someone like dubya had his hand on the armageddon button is just beyond belief to the rest of the world. After all he invaded a country for no reason because his invisible sky fairy told him to.

http://www.edeb8.com...
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

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Bennett91
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12/28/2014 8:47:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/28/2014 8:43:41 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 12/27/2014 3:29:04 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
According to this survey of US Christians, 27% of those polled say Jesus will definitely return and 20% say he'll probably return by 2050 [1]. That's nearly 50% of Christians. Christians make up almost 80% of the US population [2], so roughly 30-40% of Americans believe that the 2nd Coming will likely occur in the next 40 years. To affirm this, 32% of Christians see the conflict in Syria as a sign of the End of Days [3].

What do y'all think this means for the future of the US? How do you think this mind set effects US policy at home and abroad? Should it effect how we as a people act in the world?

I personally think this mindset is dangerous. It terrifies me to think that people who think the world is ending soon may be in positions of power. This mindset makes people focus on the short term, away from finding solutions to problems that will most definitely be around in our future like global warming. It makes an excuse to keep the US under theocratic control, because why would the religious relinquish power or give up their cause when they believe they preparing Jesus's kingdom which is just around the corner? Not only that, but in general "End Time" prophesies cause people to do crazy things like parents trying to kill their children and themselves and other cases of suicides [4].

[1] http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
[2] https://www.cia.gov...
[3] http://www.patheos.com...
[4] http://www.livescience.com...

Why's it necessarily a bad thing to believe that Jesus is likely coming back sometime in the next 35 years?
I believe He'll be coming back because He said He would, but He may delay it as long as He wants, even for another 2000 years, and I think that there's still a good amount of time left before He returns. That being said, why should people who believe in the imminent return of Jesus Christ be kept from public policy?

Because if Jesus isn't coming back, like I believe, all of the energy put in place to keep America a Christian nation full of laws based on Christian values will be pointless and harmful. Especially if there some nut in power who tries to trigger the end days hoping Jesus will come. But in other respects like the OP says such short sited thinking can leave us vulnerable to long terms problems like global warming.
Bennett91
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12/28/2014 8:51:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/28/2014 8:15:29 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 12/27/2014 3:29:04 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
According to this survey of US Christians, 27% of those polled say Jesus will definitely return and 20% say he'll probably return by 2050 [1]. That's nearly 50% of Christians. Christians make up almost 80% of the US population [2], so roughly 30-40% of Americans believe that the 2nd Coming will likely occur in the next 40 years. To affirm this, 32% of Christians see the conflict in Syria as a sign of the End of Days [3].

What do y'all think this means for the future of the US? How do you think this mind set effects US policy at home and abroad? Should it effect how we as a people act in the world?

I personally think this mindset is dangerous. It terrifies me to think that people who think the world is ending soon may be in positions of power. This mindset makes people focus on the short term, away from finding solutions to problems that will most definitely be around in our future like global warming. It makes an excuse to keep the US under theocratic control, because why would the religious relinquish power or give up their cause when they believe they preparing Jesus's kingdom which is just around the corner? Not only that, but in general "End Time" prophesies cause people to do crazy things like parents trying to kill their children and themselves and other cases of suicides [4].

[1] http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
[2] https://www.cia.gov...
[3] http://www.patheos.com...
[4] http://www.livescience.com...


What are you afraid of?

If you read the OP you'd know.

I'm not afraid of anything. The whole world is going to go to battle against Israel. Does that bother you?

It does if these war are started based on the false assumption Jesus is going to return.

Pretty much the entire world is determined to see the USA fall from power ASAP...does that scare you?

The world is not determined to see us fall. The US has many allies, especially in Europe. I'm not scared of the US losing global hegemony, although China and Russia may cause problems down the road.

The things that are going to happen were foretold in the Bible thousands of years ago, and notihing is going to stop them from happening. Russia will attack Israel. China will attack Israel. The USA, I"m guessing will be a province of China at that time.

lol ok then.

Don't be afraid. Jesus is coming back........ooops.....oh yeah.......you can't help but be afriad because you have nobody you can trust to rule the world.

And is Jesus gonna teach those dirty foreigners a lesson at the end of his AR-15?