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How Should A Christian View Homosexuality?

MsTambo
Posts: 202
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12/29/2014 3:04:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Firstly, let me start off with defining what "SIN" is. Sin is an old archery term that was used when someone "Missed the Mark" missed the bull"s eye. They fell short. Well, guess what, God is the Bull"s Eye and we all have "sinned" and "missed the mark"we have all fallen short."".(Rom 3:23)"I don"t care what your sin is, in God"s eyes, sin is sin, is sin, because He is perfect, (Matt 5:28) therefore no one measures up! Not the person who has stolen $1.00, to the person who has murdered, and the homosexual. In God"s eyes, it is the fact that one has stolen what isn"t his, one has taken a life that wasn"t his to take, and one has exchanged the natural for the unnatural. They have ALL violated "WHO GOD IS!" We are all guilty before a Holy God, unless we have been FORGIVEN ALL OUR SINS by God through FAITH in what Jesus did on the cross" (Eph 8:9-10.) Once saved all our sins are forgiven even the homosexual, even though they may struggle with sin like everyone does. (Col 2:13-14) Doesn"t matter what man"s views are either way, if they do not line up with God"s word and WHO HE IS, they are wrong. As Christians we are under the New Testament, under grace, (Rom 6) not the law, so I ask".."What Would Jesus Do?"

Some would say that homosexuality is NOT a sin, because some people are just born that way. There are a few verses in the NT, that say it is because it is UNNATURAL"(Rom 1:26-17, list many sins and 1 Cor 6:9) Going back to the first sentence in this paragraph, I would have to say from my study and observation that could be just one component. No sin or bent is due to only one factor, there could be many. And right here is where both sides have a few misunderstandings. In some ways each view is right and I will do my best to try and break each down and find a median of the HEART! For it is always the HEART that matters to God, is it not? (Matt 22:27-29) "God and Others. I will need to break this topic down into some basics for a better understanding. I will start with why homosexuality or the ACT of it is sin, and not the thoughts per say, or we are all doomed! I could go much deeper, but for time sake and space, I will summarize. The bible is very clear that all sexual sin is wrong, Fornication-Adultery-Bestiality-Homosexuality-Incest-Plural relationships-Pedophilia, etc. The main reason, a reason that only I seem to have come up with is, "That the act (not feelings""You can"t keep a bird from flying over your head, but you can keep him from building a nest there") goes against "WHO" God is and how He made us"He made us both male and female, like Him (Gen 1:27) To say that same sex union is "normal or natural" is to "SLAP" Almighty God in His face and say He was wrong in His creation, that man knows better. WOW!

God"s commandments are for OUR BEST, not to hurt us. In many areas of our lives we have choices to do what is going to be best for us, those around us and to God, or we choose not to and suffer the consequences. Do I believe all homosexuals choose the lifestyle they are in? No, I believe there are many reasons why one ends up being attracted to the same sex. And they go back to four of the five factors. 1) THEIR SIN NATURE, (choice)"2) OTHERS SIN NATURE (many have been bullied, experimented, or molested as children, or women who have had abusive men)"3) A FALLEN WORLD (hormones or predisposition, they are usually melancholy in temperament, sensitive) 4) EVIL FORCES, (There are always evil forces at work when it comes to doing opposite of God"s will, homosexuality one of them"the lifestyle is rarely a happy one, it is a LIE!)
Our goal as Christians isn"t to judge the homosexual, but to help them like we would anyone else struggling with sin get back to the # 5th factor, being in GOD"S WILL. Let God, do the judging and the work, we are to be the tools, and the catalyst for change. This would be true for anyone struggling with any temptation. Of course, I could write a whole book on this subject that would explain more deeply why homosexuality is a sin, and how a professing Christian can reconcile this "STRUGGLE" in their life and still be God honoring"I believe the process for change or acceptance (may just have to remain pure) would be the same way for any struggle anyone would have.

I think the church has a huge misunderstanding of how it is suppose to deal with "SIN" among their members (not visitors) for one; the church NO LONGER applies church discipline, (Matt 18 and 1 Cor 5) so right there you have NO ACCOUNTABILITY. The church today is one extreme or the other (more liberal/worldly than ever before) they see no middle ground. The bible is clear that sin needs to be dealt with and believe me, I"m all for that and I preach about ACCOUNTABILITY. But accountability without "Love/Agape and Restoration, is like a parent who beats their child all because of their "behavior" never taking into consideration the steps it takes to GUIDE that child through the process of LEARNING proper SELF DISCIPLINE and CORRECT BEHAVIOR, get it? GROWTH IS A PROCESS. What is the goal of one who would DISOWN their own child or even a wayward Christian brother or sister? Don"t get me wrong, I understand the bible verses such as Matt 18 and 1 Cor 5. when it comes to church discipline. But I"m not talking about a person who is blatantly living in sin (sins fitting into the category of all NT sins that are listed, even GOSSIP) with no regard to those around them or their God, they do not see that a "little leaven ruins the whole loaf," that "one bad apple soars the whole barrel""(if only those same chapters applied other places as well!) Accountability is given for the benefit of the WHOLE BODY (I believe when it comes to an unsaved person, we should never hold them to the same standard"we can vote for laws, but not force individuals to have our same principles) Accountability keeps the church/the body "Pure" and "Holy". So my stance is that before the church "Picks and Chooses" which sins are greater than another, they better go back to the only 2 verses in the New Testament (we are under GRACE not the LAW now) that even hint to homosexuality and see if their sin isn"t mentioned besides it? Jesus told those who condemned the woman caught in adultery (John 8:1-11"still want to know what happened to the man?) they were not able to judge her now, only He could do that," He then told the woman to "go and sin no more" Think about it, homosexuality is a subject that even Jesus never mentioned, yet He did mention many of the other sins and then some. Jesus/God always judged the HEART, (1 Sam 16:7) not the outward. And is why He was always upset with the PHARISEES. (Matt 23) Jesus came to bring RECONCILIATION through His death, burial and resurrection"(Col 1:20) He came to reconcile man to God, and man to each other. If that was Jesus"s goal , should that not be ours? While the legalist doesn"t understand compassion and empathy, the liberal doesn"t understand the concept of "TOUGH LOVE" "The legalist doesn"t understand that "Tough Love" should always be administered with the goal of restoration in mind, doing so in Agape love. And the liberal doesn"t understand the need for tough love, so they do not continue to enable. There needs to be a "Balance."

EXAMPLE: As a Christian mother who loves both her son"s and loves God and His ways, I would hope that if one of my boys or God forbid both came to me one day and told me they were gay, I would "Do The Right Thing". I do believe doing the right thing, isn"t going to be popular in either extreme views. but it is the way for restoration. If one of them is not a believer, then I cannot expect them to act godly, if they don"t even have God IN them. How can I expect them to have the POWER TO OVERCOME SIN in their lives, when I have the power in me and I still struggle with sin?
If they are a professing believer,....TO READ FULL ARTICLE go here https://www.facebook.com...
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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12/29/2014 3:35:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/29/2014 3:04:55 PM, MsTambo wrote:
EXAMPLE: As a Christian mother who loves both her son"s and loves God and His ways, I would hope that if one of my boys or God forbid both came to me one day and told me they were gay, I would "Do The Right Thing". I do believe doing the right thing, isn"t going to be popular in either extreme views. but it is the way for restoration. If one of them is not a believer, then I cannot expect them to act godly, if they don"t even have God IN them. How can I expect them to have the POWER TO OVERCOME SIN in their lives, when I have the power in me and I still struggle with sin?
If they are a professing believer,....TO READ FULL ARTICLE go here https://www.facebook.c...

I'd recommend another popular verse, often misquoted. "Judge not for you yourself will be judged by that selfsame measure." I'd also like to remind you about complaining about the mote in a neighbor's eye when there's a plank in yours. Try to be more like the Christ you profess to worship and less like the other jerks who use his name to promote their own agendas.
MsTambo
Posts: 202
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12/30/2014 12:09:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
GUESS YOU DIDN'T READ THE WHOLE THING

EXAMPLE: As a Christian mother who loves both her son"s and loves God and His ways, I would hope that if one of my boys or God forbid both came to me one day and told me they were gay, I would "Do The Right Thing". I do believe doing the right thing, isn"t going to be popular in either extreme views. but it is the way for restoration. If one of them is not a believer, then I cannot expect them to act godly, if they don"t even have God IN them. How can I expect them to have the POWER TO OVERCOME SIN in their lives, when I have the power in me and I still struggle with sin?

If they are a professing believer and they desire to go God"s way, and they are sincerely seeking and doing their best, then I just need to be there for them and guide them the best that have I allowed God to work in me. I need to help them up that scale to holiness that I talk about, regarding God"s will for their life and how to be truly happy, not gay"..Satan"s will -0"""100 God"s will. The closer one gets in their walk with God, and the more they are FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT, the closer their desires now become His desires; they will no longer feel the need to sin against Him. GAL 5:16..."THIS I SAY THEN, WALK IN THE SPIRIT, AND YE SHALL NOT FULFIL THE LUST OF THE FLESH""That is God"s work, not ours. Remember we are the "Clay/Tools" (Rom 9) that He uses to help others, not by judging, but by doing. Let God do the work, let Him be the judge. Now, here is the other side.

ENABLING, not good. For there to be healthy relationships, there must not be any enabling! Meaning, that if a professing Christian is living in habitual sin and still attends church regularly or is a member and acts like nothing is wrong (not one who just has thoughts) who still refuses to see their sin the way God does, in Matt 18 and 1 Cor 5, after being confronted, then "Church Discipline" is to be applied. But the "Church building" the meeting place has different standards than is to be expected to be found on the outside, that is for society and the Government to have the same standards that God does, but it doesn't (a whole other topic) When dealing with a non attending "gay Christian" and an unbeliever gay person, we cannot expect the same standards. I mean we can exile one from the family for living in sin/homosexuality, but what does that teach anyone and where does one draw the line on sin?...Your drunken uncle, family members living together, a gossiping aunt? It would be nice if we lived in a moral society, but nowhere in the bible is the world called to a Godly standard, only believers are. For a believer to treat a homosexual family member, coworker, friend, acquaintance, outside the church, using church discipline and harshly chastising them and exiling them, isn"t acting biblically. For even Jesus said, "Be in the world, but not of it, (John 17:15-16) Common sense dictates that it would be ridiculous, if not impossible to distant ourselves away from all those living in blatant sin against God, including ourselves...He, He"Remember, to God all sin is wrong and no one"s sin is worse or better than anyone else"s. So obviously God would want you and I to be a "LIGHT in a DARK world" (Matt 5:14) even if one of our children, family member, or even friends, comes "out of the closet" to us. If they cross your boundaries in anyway, then yes that would be a "no,no!", and may result in cause for a disconnect, but to judge them solely on their struggle and confusion and not their HEART, and how God see"s them, God forbid! If this family member is a professing Christian the same principles that are applied to help draw a struggling homosexual or any sinner in the church back to God, is to be applied here"Pretty simple if you ask me. As far as protecting, nieces and nephews and other innocent ears and eyes, look around you, are they not subject to enough of people sinning in all kinds of ways in everything they VIEW?...What they are not going to see is, LOVING and MATURE CHRISTIANS doing the right thing and helping those who are "IN" sin, finding a way to get OUT!

Think I will stop here, like I said, I could write a whole book on this subject.
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
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12/30/2014 8:09:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Before you right your book you may want to learn about what being gay means.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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12/30/2014 8:23:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Simply put. Homosexuality is not a sin. So therefore, everybody be happy.

Looks like this turned out to be

-puts on sunglasses-

A gay ending.

YEAH!!!!!!!
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/30/2014 8:42:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
You Christians try very hard to see the sins in other people before you look in a mirror and see your own sins that YOU have to die for. The wages of sin is death and that's why ALL flesh in this world will perish.

Genesis 6
12: And God saw the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way upon the earth.
13: And God said to Noah, "I have determined to make an end of all flesh; for the earth is filled with violence through them; behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

Ecclesiastes 3
17: I said in my heart, God will judge the righteous and the wicked, for he has appointed a time for every matter, and for every work.
18: I said in my heart with regard to the sons of men that God is testing them to show them that they are but beasts.
19: For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts; for all is vanity.
20: All go to one place; all are from the dust, and all turn to dust again.

Isaiah 66
15: "For behold, the LORD will come in fire, and his chariots like the stormwind, to render his anger in fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
16: For by fire will the LORD execute judgment, and by his sword, upon all flesh; and those slain by the LORD shall be many.

Zephaniah 1
18: Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them on the day of the wrath of the LORD. In the fire of his jealous wrath, all the earth shall be consumed; for a full, yea, sudden end he will make of all the inhabitants of the earth.

Revelation 19
17: Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly in midheaven, "Come, gather for the great supper of God,
18: to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave, both small and great."
19: And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who sits upon the horse and against his army.
20: And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had worked the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulphur.
21: And the rest were slain by the sword of him who sits upon the horse, the sword that issues from his mouth; and all the birds were gorged with their flesh.

All flesh will perish in this world but our spirits remain in the spirit of God forever.
MsTambo
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12/30/2014 10:13:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/30/2014 8:09:27 PM, bulproof wrote:
Before you right your book you may want to learn about what being gay means.

I'm bisexual, so I think I know more than you think I know....lol
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
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12/30/2014 10:17:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/30/2014 10:13:42 PM, MsTambo wrote:
At 12/30/2014 8:09:27 PM, bulproof wrote:
Before you right your book you may want to learn about what being gay means.

I'm bisexual, so I think I know more than you think I know....lol

And who do you blame for that?
You realise that you are in very real danger of becoming a pedophile according to the author of this thread?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,221
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12/30/2014 11:16:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
"How should a Christian view Homosexuality"

With the lights off, alone, on a TV, in a closet, the phone unplugged, cell phone with the battery removed, and any wireless features on the BluRay player disabled.

Destroy all evidence afterwards. I recommend acetone on the disc, as well as burning the DVD covers.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
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12/31/2014 7:01:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/30/2014 11:16:54 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
"How should a Christian view Homosexuality"

With the lights off, alone, on a TV, in a closet, the phone unplugged, cell phone with the battery removed, and any wireless features on the BluRay player disabled.


Destroy all evidence afterwards. I recommend acetone on the disc, as well as burning the DVD covers.

Beastt will be pissed by this. send him a PM about it..........LOL
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Bennett91
Posts: 4,227
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12/31/2014 7:25:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/30/2014 11:16:54 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
"How should a Christian view Homosexuality"

With the lights off, alone, on a TV, in a closet, the phone unplugged, cell phone with the battery removed, and any wireless features on the BluRay player disabled.


Destroy all evidence afterwards. I recommend acetone on the disc, as well as burning the DVD covers.

This is a very descriptive scene. Personal experience? lol :3
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
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12/31/2014 7:46:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 7:25:29 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/30/2014 11:16:54 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
"How should a Christian view Homosexuality"

With the lights off, alone, on a TV, in a closet, the phone unplugged, cell phone with the battery removed, and any wireless features on the BluRay player disabled.


Destroy all evidence afterwards. I recommend acetone on the disc, as well as burning the DVD covers.

This is a very descriptive scene. Personal experience? lol :3

You have no right to insult him. The WWA authority will come down hard.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,622
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12/31/2014 10:43:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/30/2014 12:09:12 PM, MsTambo wrote:

Think I will stop here, like I said, I could write a whole book on this subject.

I got a potential working title for the book:

"Homophobic Hatred For Dummies"
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
MsTambo
Posts: 202
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12/31/2014 11:15:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
What am I dealing with children on here?

Where in my article did I say to hate homosexuals? I said, quite the opposite. God doesn't hate homosexuals anymore than He does anyone. He hates the fact that people exchange the NATURAL for the UNNATURAL.

All those who die in their sin without being born again by the spirit, (John 3:3) will suffer eternal death. Jesus said, "He was the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE, no man comes to the father without going through Him first"

I feel sorry for those who believe a LIE....:(

ROMANS 1, "God"s Wrath Against Sinful Humanity
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God"s invisible qualities"his eternal power and divine nature"have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator"who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God"s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them."
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,622
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12/31/2014 11:28:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 11:15:24 AM, MsTambo wrote:
What am I dealing with children on here?

No, you're dealing with adults who recognize religiously motivated homophobia when they see it.

Where in my article did I say to hate homosexuals? I said, quite the opposite.

You are lying. Your hatred of homosexuals is obvious, it can be revealed in your words...

God doesn't hate homosexuals anymore than He does anyone. He hates the fact that people exchange the NATURAL for the UNNATURAL.

Yes, "He hates", just like you do.

All those who die in their sin without being born again by the spirit, (John 3:3) will suffer eternal death. Jesus said, "He was the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE, no man comes to the father without going through Him first"

I feel sorry for those who believe a LIE....:(

That would be you who believes lies, the lies your religion teaches you.

ROMANS 1, "God"s Wrath Against Sinful Humanity
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God"s invisible qualities"his eternal power and divine nature"have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator"who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God"s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them."

Yes, those verse would certainly confirm your hatred for others.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
MsTambo
Posts: 202
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12/31/2014 11:33:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Thanks for proving you never read my article, because it shows I love people the way God does. Just because you don't believe in God, doesn't mean He doesn't exist.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,622
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12/31/2014 11:36:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 11:33:15 AM, MsTambo wrote:
Thanks for proving you never read my article

That is a lie, I read your article and found it to be wanting of anything to do with reality.

because it shows I love people the way God does.

And yet, you show nothing but hatred for homosexuals, that would make you a liar.

Just because you don't believe in God, doesn't mean He doesn't exist.

LOL. Childish remarks.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
MsTambo
Posts: 202
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12/31/2014 12:02:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
like I said, show me what I said that was hateful...quote me.

Everyone else I know who has read it days the opposite...That I'm telling Christian to stop hating!

Nice try though...;)
YYW
Posts: 36,289
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12/31/2014 4:17:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The intersection of Christianity, and religion generally, with homosexuality and various issues of sexual identity is a precarious one. The reason for that is a general lack of understanding of what homosexuality is, and a socio-historical failure to account for the differences between gender norms of the Romans, for example, and homosexuality as it exists now.

The concept of "homosexuality" -and the concept of sexual identity more generally- did not exist until the 19th century. There was male on male sexual contact, although generally speaking the most common form of male on male sexual contact was between adult freeborn men and boys aged from 11-17 of lower social classes. So, what a number of (egregiously mistranslated) bibles refer to as "homosexuality" really isn't "homosexuality" but a form of class-based pederasty that would be abhorrent to us now.

Consenting homosexual relationships (like, between men over the age which we recognize as one where someone can give consent to sexual acts) were extremely uncommon. The reason is because "to be penetrated" was perceived as emasculating, which was highly frowned upon in the kinds of honor cultures that existed in the ancient world.

But, the ancient greek word was mistranslated (mostly by the Catholic church) over and over through time and space (starting at the end of the dark ages) and the cultural norm against homosexuality evolved over time to frown upon any kind of same sex sexual contact.

A number of interesting things happened between the dark ages and Victorian England as they relate to homosexuality, but the victorian age was sort of the next historical vicissitude whereby an (ironically) prudish yet sex-obsessed culture organized around condemning all kinds of sexual activity other than that which took place within the bounds of heterosexual monogamous marriage in the missionary position. There were a number reasons for that, but the most poignant ones centered around the newly developing theory that some diseases might be transmitted sexually.

Because disease was regarded as some kind of divine judgement, and basically all sexual acts other than those which took place within the bonds of heterosexual monogamous marriage presented a more or less serious public health risk, things like chastity became connected to moral virtue, and things like whorishness became morally debase.

A lot of those same stupid ideas found new expression when AIDS came to America and moral majority types advanced the monstrously idiotic idea that AIDS was God's judgement on gay people for being f@gs. Basically, there is a historical trend connecting good health to moral virtue which -stupid as it may be- probably has an evolutionary basis.

The problem was that along the way a lot of those culturally inherited stupid ideas (that really were nothing more than dumb platitudes taken from theological hogwash) acquired newfound legitimacy in the field of "mental health." (As an aside, I would encourage everyone to read up on the mad history of combatting madness... mental health was little more than pseudoscience until the 1990s and even now there are seriously bad things that still go on... just read the DSM-5.)

But, the regime of "mental health" claimed that homosexuality was a deviation from the norm (another spurious, and idiotic claim) which meant that it was "bad" and therefore "something to be corrected." Shrinks of all kinds did some really fvcked up things to gay people, from castration to electrocution and all in the name of finding a "cure." Even though I wasn't alive, it is infuriating because of how recently this sh!t happened -and the reason it happened and was allowed to go on is because of how fvcked up psychology was for a very long time because it gave ostensibly "scientific" (and I use that word loosely) legitimacy to a set of ideas that are anything but.

Christians, in the 60s especially, looked to the field of mental health and supported it because, it mirrored the stupid ideas that people in that time had about homosexuality. The ironic thing is that this is basically the first time that science and religion started to get along... uniting around the idea that two consenting dudes getting it on was something that was intolerable. But, telling other people how to live their lives under the auspices of "science" was sort of an overarching theme of the first world until, curiously enough, the late 1990s when people finally started to realize... "hey guys... maybe we're fvcking more things up than we're fixing."

But, to this day, shitty people who call themselves Christians continue to vilify homosexuality, and all kinds of sexual anything that is not within the scope of monogamous, heterosexual sex in the context of marriage. There are some people who are old, stupid, and set in their ways -and there are others who are young, dumb and too stupid to see how their inherited stupidity is destroying the social legitimacy not only of Christianity, but of religion.

I'm not usually this cynical/condescending... but I'm at a point where, I'm going to borrow a phrase from Howard Beale:

I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore.

I'm tired of the stupid, ignorant, backward redneck theology that equally stupid, ignorant, backward people call "the truth." What they call "the truth" is not true, it's an inherited mistake that repeats itself generation after generation and even now there are "social conservatives" on this site that talk about how evil, sinful, [insert other stupid adjective here] homosexuality is.

There is a point where it becomes very difficult to hold people accountable for things that they could not have known, but we're at a place in society where if you still think homosexuality is wrong, that's a stronger indication that something is wrong with you than that what you're saying has any merit or legitimacy.

When kids kill themselves because they hate being gay and they think that they will have no chance to live a happy life because of who they are, and the reason they feel that way is because of the fvcked up worldview that people who call themselves Christians have -that's when you can know things are bad. And things are bad, and it is comprehensively and exclusively the fault of social conservatives.

I don't care what you think you know. I don't care what you think you believe. If you think homosexuality is wrong, then you're wrong, and if you preach that all f@gs to to hell then there is a special place in hell reserved for you who have by your tongue hurt both the church and presumably forced people to turn their backs on God. And that's the real tragedy here... that so many people have lost their salvation because they actually believed the political sh!t that people (especially Southern Baptists and conservative Catholics) call "the truth."
Tsar of DDO
SirCrona
Posts: 139
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12/31/2014 6:07:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
How could your God claim to be perfect? Just going on what the Bible says, he is either a malevolent and apathetic tormentor or a powerless fraud.
YYW
Posts: 36,289
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12/31/2014 6:16:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 4:17:57 PM, YYW wrote:
The intersection of Christianity, and religion generally, with homosexuality and various issues of sexual identity is a precarious one. The reason for that is a general lack of understanding of what homosexuality is, and a socio-historical failure to account for the differences between gender norms of the Romans, for example, and homosexuality as it exists now.

The concept of "homosexuality" -and the concept of sexual identity more generally- did not exist until the 19th century. There was male on male sexual contact, although generally speaking the most common form of male on male sexual contact was between adult freeborn men and boys aged from 11-17 of lower social classes. So, what a number of (egregiously mistranslated) bibles refer to as "homosexuality" really isn't "homosexuality" but a form of class-based pederasty that would be abhorrent to us now.

Consenting homosexual relationships (like, between men over the age which we recognize as one where someone can give consent to sexual acts) were extremely uncommon. The reason is because "to be penetrated" was perceived as emasculating, which was highly frowned upon in the kinds of honor cultures that existed in the ancient world.

But, the ancient greek word was mistranslated (mostly by the Catholic church) over and over through time and space (starting at the end of the dark ages) and the cultural norm against homosexuality evolved over time to frown upon any kind of same sex sexual contact.

A number of interesting things happened between the dark ages and Victorian England as they relate to homosexuality, but the victorian age was sort of the next historical vicissitude whereby an (ironically) prudish yet sex-obsessed culture organized around condemning all kinds of sexual activity other than that which took place within the bounds of heterosexual monogamous marriage in the missionary position. There were a number reasons for that, but the most poignant ones centered around the newly developing theory that some diseases might be transmitted sexually.

Because disease was regarded as some kind of divine judgement, and basically all sexual acts other than those which took place within the bonds of heterosexual monogamous marriage presented a more or less serious public health risk, things like chastity became connected to moral virtue, and things like whorishness became morally debase.

A lot of those same stupid ideas found new expression when AIDS came to America and moral majority types advanced the monstrously idiotic idea that AIDS was God's judgement on gay people for being f@gs. Basically, there is a historical trend connecting good health to moral virtue which -stupid as it may be- probably has an evolutionary basis.

The problem was that along the way a lot of those culturally inherited stupid ideas (that really were nothing more than dumb platitudes taken from theological hogwash) acquired newfound legitimacy in the field of "mental health." (As an aside, I would encourage everyone to read up on the mad history of combatting madness... mental health was little more than pseudoscience until the 1990s and even now there are seriously bad things that still go on... just read the DSM-5.)

But, the regime of "mental health" claimed that homosexuality was a deviation from the norm (another spurious, and idiotic claim) which meant that it was "bad" and therefore "something to be corrected." Shrinks of all kinds did some really fvcked up things to gay people, from castration to electrocution and all in the name of finding a "cure." Even though I wasn't alive, it is infuriating because of how recently this sh!t happened -and the reason it happened and was allowed to go on is because of how fvcked up psychology was for a very long time because it gave ostensibly "scientific" (and I use that word loosely) legitimacy to a set of ideas that are anything but.

Christians, in the 60s especially, looked to the field of mental health and supported it because, it mirrored the stupid ideas that people in that time had about homosexuality. The ironic thing is that this is basically the first time that science and religion started to get along... uniting around the idea that two consenting dudes getting it on was something that was intolerable. But, telling other people how to live their lives under the auspices of "science" was sort of an overarching theme of the first world until, curiously enough, the late 1990s when people finally started to realize... "hey guys... maybe we're fvcking more things up than we're fixing."

But, to this day, shitty people who call themselves Christians continue to vilify homosexuality, and all kinds of sexual anything that is not within the scope of monogamous, heterosexual sex in the context of marriage. There are some people who are old, stupid, and set in their ways -and there are others who are young, dumb and too stupid to see how their inherited stupidity is destroying the social legitimacy not only of Christianity, but of religion.

I'm not usually this cynical/condescending... but I'm at a point where, I'm going to borrow a phrase from Howard Beale:

I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore.



I'm tired of the stupid, ignorant, backward redneck theology that equally stupid, ignorant, backward people call "the truth." What they call "the truth" is not true, it's an inherited mistake that repeats itself generation after generation and even now there are "social conservatives" on this site that talk about how evil, sinful, [insert other stupid adjective here] homosexuality is.

There is a point where it becomes very difficult to hold people accountable for things that they could not have known, but we're at a place in society where if you still think homosexuality is wrong, that's a stronger indication that something is wrong with you than that what you're saying has any merit or legitimacy.

When kids kill themselves because they hate being gay and they think that they will have no chance to live a happy life because of who they are, and the reason they feel that way is because of the fvcked up worldview that people who call themselves Christians have -that's when you can know things are bad. And things are bad, and it is comprehensively and exclusively the fault of social conservatives.

I don't care what you think you know. I don't care what you think you believe. If you think homosexuality is wrong, then you're wrong, and if you preach that all f@gs to to hell then there is a special place in hell reserved for you who have by your tongue hurt both the church and presumably forced people to turn their backs on God. And that's the real tragedy here... that so many people have lost their salvation because they actually believed the political sh!t that people (especially Southern Baptists and conservative Catholics) call "the truth."

Bump.
Tsar of DDO
wsmunit7
Posts: 1,318
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12/31/2014 6:16:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/30/2014 10:17:10 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/30/2014 10:13:42 PM, MsTambo wrote:
At 12/30/2014 8:09:27 PM, bulproof wrote:
Before you right your book you may want to learn about what being gay means.

I'm bisexual, so I think I know more than you think I know....lol

And who do you blame for that?
You realise that you are in very real danger of becoming a pedophile according to the author of this thread?

And exactly what authoritative knowledge does the author of this thread have on the subject of paedophilia?
YYW
Posts: 36,289
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1/1/2015 8:01:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 6:16:22 PM, YYW wrote:
At 12/31/2014 4:17:57 PM, YYW wrote:
The intersection of Christianity, and religion generally, with homosexuality and various issues of sexual identity is a precarious one. The reason for that is a general lack of understanding of what homosexuality is, and a socio-historical failure to account for the differences between gender norms of the Romans, for example, and homosexuality as it exists now.

The concept of "homosexuality" -and the concept of sexual identity more generally- did not exist until the 19th century. There was male on male sexual contact, although generally speaking the most common form of male on male sexual contact was between adult freeborn men and boys aged from 11-17 of lower social classes. So, what a number of (egregiously mistranslated) bibles refer to as "homosexuality" really isn't "homosexuality" but a form of class-based pederasty that would be abhorrent to us now.

Consenting homosexual relationships (like, between men over the age which we recognize as one where someone can give consent to sexual acts) were extremely uncommon. The reason is because "to be penetrated" was perceived as emasculating, which was highly frowned upon in the kinds of honor cultures that existed in the ancient world.

But, the ancient greek word was mistranslated (mostly by the Catholic church) over and over through time and space (starting at the end of the dark ages) and the cultural norm against homosexuality evolved over time to frown upon any kind of same sex sexual contact.

A number of interesting things happened between the dark ages and Victorian England as they relate to homosexuality, but the victorian age was sort of the next historical vicissitude whereby an (ironically) prudish yet sex-obsessed culture organized around condemning all kinds of sexual activity other than that which took place within the bounds of heterosexual monogamous marriage in the missionary position. There were a number reasons for that, but the most poignant ones centered around the newly developing theory that some diseases might be transmitted sexually.

Because disease was regarded as some kind of divine judgement, and basically all sexual acts other than those which took place within the bonds of heterosexual monogamous marriage presented a more or less serious public health risk, things like chastity became connected to moral virtue, and things like whorishness became morally debase.

A lot of those same stupid ideas found new expression when AIDS came to America and moral majority types advanced the monstrously idiotic idea that AIDS was God's judgement on gay people for being f@gs. Basically, there is a historical trend connecting good health to moral virtue which -stupid as it may be- probably has an evolutionary basis.

The problem was that along the way a lot of those culturally inherited stupid ideas (that really were nothing more than dumb platitudes taken from theological hogwash) acquired newfound legitimacy in the field of "mental health." (As an aside, I would encourage everyone to read up on the mad history of combatting madness... mental health was little more than pseudoscience until the 1990s and even now there are seriously bad things that still go on... just read the DSM-5.)

But, the regime of "mental health" claimed that homosexuality was a deviation from the norm (another spurious, and idiotic claim) which meant that it was "bad" and therefore "something to be corrected." Shrinks of all kinds did some really fvcked up things to gay people, from castration to electrocution and all in the name of finding a "cure." Even though I wasn't alive, it is infuriating because of how recently this sh!t happened -and the reason it happened and was allowed to go on is because of how fvcked up psychology was for a very long time because it gave ostensibly "scientific" (and I use that word loosely) legitimacy to a set of ideas that are anything but.

Christians, in the 60s especially, looked to the field of mental health and supported it because, it mirrored the stupid ideas that people in that time had about homosexuality. The ironic thing is that this is basically the first time that science and religion started to get along... uniting around the idea that two consenting dudes getting it on was something that was intolerable. But, telling other people how to live their lives under the auspices of "science" was sort of an overarching theme of the first world until, curiously enough, the late 1990s when people finally started to realize... "hey guys... maybe we're fvcking more things up than we're fixing."

But, to this day, shitty people who call themselves Christians continue to vilify homosexuality, and all kinds of sexual anything that is not within the scope of monogamous, heterosexual sex in the context of marriage. There are some people who are old, stupid, and set in their ways -and there are others who are young, dumb and too stupid to see how their inherited stupidity is destroying the social legitimacy not only of Christianity, but of religion.

I'm not usually this cynical/condescending... but I'm at a point where, I'm going to borrow a phrase from Howard Beale:

I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore.



I'm tired of the stupid, ignorant, backward redneck theology that equally stupid, ignorant, backward people call "the truth." What they call "the truth" is not true, it's an inherited mistake that repeats itself generation after generation and even now there are "social conservatives" on this site that talk about how evil, sinful, [insert other stupid adjective here] homosexuality is.

There is a point where it becomes very difficult to hold people accountable for things that they could not have known, but we're at a place in society where if you still think homosexuality is wrong, that's a stronger indication that something is wrong with you than that what you're saying has any merit or legitimacy.

When kids kill themselves because they hate being gay and they think that they will have no chance to live a happy life because of who they are, and the reason they feel that way is because of the fvcked up worldview that people who call themselves Christians have -that's when you can know things are bad. And things are bad, and it is comprehensively and exclusively the fault of social conservatives.

I don't care what you think you know. I don't care what you think you believe. If you think homosexuality is wrong, then you're wrong, and if you preach that all f@gs to to hell then there is a special place in hell reserved for you who have by your tongue hurt both the church and presumably forced people to turn their backs on God. And that's the real tragedy here... that so many people have lost their salvation because they actually believed the political sh!t that people (especially Southern Baptists and conservative Catholics) call "the truth."

Bump.
Tsar of DDO
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
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1/1/2015 8:12:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 6:16:42 PM, wsmunit7 wrote:
At 12/30/2014 10:17:10 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/30/2014 10:13:42 PM, MsTambo wrote:
At 12/30/2014 8:09:27 PM, bulproof wrote:
Before you right your book you may want to learn about what being gay means.

I'm bisexual, so I think I know more than you think I know....lol

And who do you blame for that?
You realise that you are in very real danger of becoming a pedophile according to the author of this thread?

And exactly what authoritative knowledge does the author of this thread have on the subject of paedophilia?

Well absolutely none.
But she likes to claim that her bisexuality qualifies her for advancement to paedophilia.
You may think that amazing, but it is what it is.
BTW it's nice to see someone spelling it correctly. I desisted because the plebs didn't get it.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
seeu46
Posts: 578
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1/1/2015 10:13:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
A Christian should view it as a sin.

But there are many SINS and as Jesus demands mercy, so should we Christians be harmless like a dove.

Does that mean we should stop "teaching" that this is a sin? No, of course not. But it must be taught without hate. As just a "disagreement".

For it is my faith that the spirit of Christ can heal and defeat any sin. As I so rejoice in this idea of my knowledge and understanding of my crucified savior.
YYW
Posts: 36,289
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1/2/2015 9:28:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The problem with preaching that homosexuality is a sin is that it takes some creative mistranslation and a willful disregard for historical accuracy to do. Homosexuality (as a concept) did not exist in biblical times, nor did sexual identity.

I think that a lot of people here (like the notoriously inept poster known as BornofGod) confuse "homosexual acts" with "homosexuality." A dude can get it on with another dude without being gay. They could be bi, or poli, or whatever. Those are "sexual identities," and sexual identities are "innate." Sexual identities are attributes about who a person is; like, they make up a person. Sexual identities are not "single acts" so even in a logical sense, it can't be "a sin."

But, when you teach that something which is "innate" but not universal to mankind is "a sin" you create a second class of people who some stupid Christians reach the equally stupid conclusion makes that latter class "more sinful" than others and thus "worthy of society's judgement/condemnation/correction/[other stupid ideas]/etc."

So, not only is homosexuality (because it is a sexual identity) *not* a sin, but regarding it as a sin produces some very bad results.
Tsar of DDO