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Why does God force people to suffer?

dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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12/29/2014 4:54:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/29/2014 4:37:48 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the belief that the God of the Bible exists.

Then you will never get anyone to admit that their deity forces anyone to suffer. He 'allows' it because Man sinned and something about free will, none of which makes any sense but that's the party line, as the saying goes.
SitaraMusica
Posts: 1,060
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12/29/2014 4:58:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/29/2014 4:54:16 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/29/2014 4:37:48 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the belief that the God of the Bible exists.

Then you will never get anyone to admit that their deity forces anyone to suffer. He 'allows' it because Man sinned and something about free will, none of which makes any sense but that's the party line, as the saying goes.
You are wrong. People do not want to suffer. They suffer anyway. Therefore, the logical conclusion is that God forces them to suffer.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,489
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12/29/2014 5:02:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/29/2014 4:37:48 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the belief that the God of the Bible exists.

sorry dude but the answer is in Islam you wouldnt find it in the Bible or any place for that matter i think...
Never fart near dog
SitaraMusica
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12/29/2014 5:06:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/29/2014 5:02:58 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 12/29/2014 4:37:48 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the belief that the God of the Bible exists.

sorry dude but the answer is in Islam you wouldnt find it in the Bible or any place for that matter i think...

No thank you. Islam violates women's rights.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,489
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12/29/2014 5:08:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/29/2014 5:06:17 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 12/29/2014 5:02:58 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 12/29/2014 4:37:48 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the belief that the God of the Bible exists.

sorry dude but the answer is in Islam you wouldnt find it in the Bible or any place for that matter i think...

No thank you. Islam violates women's rights.

hhh that was harsh lol wanna compare it what the Islam says about women and what your Bibles says?
Never fart near dog
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,849
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12/29/2014 5:10:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/29/2014 4:37:48 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the belief that the God of the Bible exists.

Who says god "forces" you to do anything? Your suffering is your own doing.
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SitaraMusica
Posts: 1,060
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12/29/2014 5:19:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/29/2014 5:08:03 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 12/29/2014 5:06:17 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 12/29/2014 5:02:58 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 12/29/2014 4:37:48 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the belief that the God of the Bible exists.

sorry dude but the answer is in Islam you wouldnt find it in the Bible or any place for that matter i think...

No thank you. Islam violates women's rights.

hhh that was harsh lol wanna compare it what the Islam says about women and what your Bibles says?

What is harsh is the civil rights violations in Muslim countries.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,489
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12/29/2014 5:28:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/29/2014 5:19:44 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 12/29/2014 5:08:03 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 12/29/2014 5:06:17 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 12/29/2014 5:02:58 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 12/29/2014 4:37:48 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the belief that the God of the Bible exists.

sorry dude but the answer is in Islam you wouldnt find it in the Bible or any place for that matter i think...

No thank you. Islam violates women's rights.

hhh that was harsh lol wanna compare it what the Islam says about women and what your Bibles says?

What is harsh is the civil rights violations in Muslim countries.

but wait you think the bible teachings are better from Islamic teachings? who care about muslim countries, look at history the most horrible countries were the christains countries, so what you want to judge you according your "christain counrties"? and you know there is no christain country any more atheist and democracy take it over churchs ruling over people.

i see you are a gay you know under the church they will kill you, thats your religion saying about you actually your bible.
Never fart near dog
o0jeannie0o
Posts: 77
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12/29/2014 5:54:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/29/2014 5:10:55 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 12/29/2014 4:37:48 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the belief that the God of the Bible exists.

Who says god "forces" you to do anything? Your suffering is your own doing.

He condones, created and therefore forces suffering.
Suffering didn't exist, and wouldn't exist without gods creation of it.

pretty sure that being beat down by your father is suffering that you didn't cause. Your free will is being taken away here, it violates the free will argument as the only person with free will in this situation is the father.

If god allows this, knows it was happening, and can stop it he is at fault. He created the father, the kid, the suffering, the mindset of the father, and the fathers ability to take free will from another person.

This also proves that superman is better then god.
Otokage
Posts: 2,352
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12/29/2014 7:03:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/29/2014 4:37:48 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the belief that the God of the Bible exists.

He has whims and human emotions, leading to him being cruel, ruthless and jealous pretty much in the style of the Greek gods, that were always meddling in human affairs and punishing those who refused to worship them or those who they simply didn't like for ridiculous reasons.
SitaraMusica
Posts: 1,060
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12/29/2014 7:14:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/29/2014 5:54:54 PM, o0jeannie0o wrote:
At 12/29/2014 5:10:55 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 12/29/2014 4:37:48 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the belief that the God of the Bible exists.

Who says god "forces" you to do anything? Your suffering is your own doing.

He condones, created and therefore forces suffering.
Suffering didn't exist, and wouldn't exist without gods creation of it.

pretty sure that being beat down by your father is suffering that you didn't cause. Your free will is being taken away here, it violates the free will argument as the only person with free will in this situation is the father.

If god allows this, knows it was happening, and can stop it he is at fault. He created the father, the kid, the suffering, the mindset of the father, and the fathers ability to take free will from another person.

This also proves that superman is better then god.

Thank you for speaking the truth.
Danaos
Posts: 3
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12/29/2014 7:15:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The common Christian (if Christianity is what you're referring to) is that it is all a test of your faith and that he won't give you anything that you can't handle. Of course he already knows how the test will end and he has given people more than they can handle (check any graveyard) but he's God, and everything he does is good by definition.

Also, have you ever thought that he just likes to screw with people? Look at the story of Job.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,077
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12/29/2014 7:19:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/29/2014 7:14:53 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 12/29/2014 5:54:54 PM, o0jeannie0o wrote:
At 12/29/2014 5:10:55 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 12/29/2014 4:37:48 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the belief that the God of the Bible exists.

Who says god "forces" you to do anything? Your suffering is your own doing.

He condones, created and therefore forces suffering.
Suffering didn't exist, and wouldn't exist without gods creation of it.

pretty sure that being beat down by your father is suffering that you didn't cause. Your free will is being taken away here, it violates the free will argument as the only person with free will in this situation is the father.

If god allows this, knows it was happening, and can stop it he is at fault. He created the father, the kid, the suffering, the mindset of the father, and the fathers ability to take free will from another person.

This also proves that superman is better then god.

Thank you for speaking the truth.

Let me ask you a question.

You see an fly being attacked and painfully killed by a spider. You do nothing about it. Does that make you immoral? What responsibility do you have to that fly?
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
SitaraMusica
Posts: 1,060
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12/29/2014 7:21:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/29/2014 7:03:33 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 12/29/2014 4:37:48 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the belief that the God of the Bible exists.

He has whims and human emotions, leading to him being cruel, ruthless and jealous pretty much in the style of the Greek gods, that were always meddling in human affairs and punishing those who refused to worship them or those who they simply didn't like for ridiculous reasons.
What4 about me? I don't want to suffer.
Danaos
Posts: 3
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12/29/2014 7:22:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/29/2014 7:19:52 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 12/29/2014 7:14:53 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 12/29/2014 5:54:54 PM, o0jeannie0o wrote:
At 12/29/2014 5:10:55 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 12/29/2014 4:37:48 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the belief that the God of the Bible exists.

Who says god "forces" you to do anything? Your suffering is your own doing.

He condones, created and therefore forces suffering.
Suffering didn't exist, and wouldn't exist without gods creation of it.

pretty sure that being beat down by your father is suffering that you didn't cause. Your free will is being taken away here, it violates the free will argument as the only person with free will in this situation is the father.

If god allows this, knows it was happening, and can stop it he is at fault. He created the father, the kid, the suffering, the mindset of the father, and the fathers ability to take free will from another person.

This also proves that superman is better then god.

Thank you for speaking the truth.

Let me ask you a question.

You see an fly being attacked and painfully killed by a spider. You do nothing about it. Does that make you immoral? What responsibility do you have to that fly?

We have no obligation to save the fly and it does not make us immoral. However, we also don't claim to love the fly unconditionally.
Otokage
Posts: 2,352
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12/29/2014 7:23:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/29/2014 7:21:05 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 12/29/2014 7:03:33 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 12/29/2014 4:37:48 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the belief that the God of the Bible exists.

He has whims and human emotions, leading to him being cruel, ruthless and jealous pretty much in the style of the Greek gods, that were always meddling in human affairs and punishing those who refused to worship them or those who they simply didn't like for ridiculous reasons.
What4 about me? I don't want to suffer.

From the little I have read on the Bible, I don't think God cares a penny about what you want mate. Sorry.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,077
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12/29/2014 7:23:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/29/2014 7:22:02 PM, Danaos wrote:
At 12/29/2014 7:19:52 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 12/29/2014 7:14:53 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 12/29/2014 5:54:54 PM, o0jeannie0o wrote:
At 12/29/2014 5:10:55 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 12/29/2014 4:37:48 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the belief that the God of the Bible exists.

Who says god "forces" you to do anything? Your suffering is your own doing.

He condones, created and therefore forces suffering.
Suffering didn't exist, and wouldn't exist without gods creation of it.

pretty sure that being beat down by your father is suffering that you didn't cause. Your free will is being taken away here, it violates the free will argument as the only person with free will in this situation is the father.

If god allows this, knows it was happening, and can stop it he is at fault. He created the father, the kid, the suffering, the mindset of the father, and the fathers ability to take free will from another person.

This also proves that superman is better then god.

Thank you for speaking the truth.

Let me ask you a question.

You see an fly being attacked and painfully killed by a spider. You do nothing about it. Does that make you immoral? What responsibility do you have to that fly?

We have no obligation to save the fly and it does not make us immoral. However, we also don't claim to love the fly unconditionally.

Ah. Good point.
However, our suffering here on Earth is insignificant in light of eternity.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
SitaraMusica
Posts: 1,060
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12/29/2014 7:26:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/29/2014 7:23:07 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 12/29/2014 7:21:05 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 12/29/2014 7:03:33 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 12/29/2014 4:37:48 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the belief that the God of the Bible exists.

He has whims and human emotions, leading to him being cruel, ruthless and jealous pretty much in the style of the Greek gods, that were always meddling in human affairs and punishing those who refused to worship them or those who they simply didn't like for ridiculous reasons.
What4 about me? I don't want to suffer.

From the little I have read on the Bible, I don't think God cares a penny about what you want mate. Sorry.

Thank you. I wish I could feel safe from Him I am not sure, but I think I am a deist.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,077
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12/29/2014 7:30:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/29/2014 7:26:10 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 12/29/2014 7:23:07 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 12/29/2014 7:21:05 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 12/29/2014 7:03:33 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 12/29/2014 4:37:48 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the belief that the God of the Bible exists.

He has whims and human emotions, leading to him being cruel, ruthless and jealous pretty much in the style of the Greek gods, that were always meddling in human affairs and punishing those who refused to worship them or those who they simply didn't like for ridiculous reasons.
What4 about me? I don't want to suffer.

From the little I have read on the Bible, I don't think God cares a penny about what you want mate. Sorry.

Thank you. I wish I could feel safe from Him I am not sure, but I think I am a deist.

Do you hate God? If so, why?
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
SitaraMusica
Posts: 1,060
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12/29/2014 7:32:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/29/2014 7:30:51 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 12/29/2014 7:26:10 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 12/29/2014 7:23:07 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 12/29/2014 7:21:05 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 12/29/2014 7:03:33 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 12/29/2014 4:37:48 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the belief that the God of the Bible exists.

He has whims and human emotions, leading to him being cruel, ruthless and jealous pretty much in the style of the Greek gods, that were always meddling in human affairs and punishing those who refused to worship them or those who they simply didn't like for ridiculous reasons.
What4 about me? I don't want to suffer.

From the little I have read on the Bible, I don't think God cares a penny about what you want mate. Sorry.

Thank you. I wish I could feel safe from Him I am not sure, but I think I am a deist.

Do you hate God? If so, why?

I do not hate God, but I am angry at Him for forcing people to suffer
o0jeannie0o
Posts: 77
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12/29/2014 8:05:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/29/2014 7:23:55 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 12/29/2014 7:22:02 PM, Danaos wrote:
At 12/29/2014 7:19:52 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 12/29/2014 7:14:53 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 12/29/2014 5:54:54 PM, o0jeannie0o wrote:
At 12/29/2014 5:10:55 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 12/29/2014 4:37:48 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the belief that the God of the Bible exists.

Who says god "forces" you to do anything? Your suffering is your own doing.

He condones, created and therefore forces suffering.
Suffering didn't exist, and wouldn't exist without gods creation of it.

pretty sure that being beat down by your father is suffering that you didn't cause. Your free will is being taken away here, it violates the free will argument as the only person with free will in this situation is the father.

If god allows this, knows it was happening, and can stop it he is at fault. He created the father, the kid, the suffering, the mindset of the father, and the fathers ability to take free will from another person.

This also proves that superman is better then god.

Thank you for speaking the truth.

Let me ask you a question.

You see an fly being attacked and painfully killed by a spider. You do nothing about it. Does that make you immoral? What responsibility do you have to that fly?

We have no obligation to save the fly and it does not make us immoral. However, we also don't claim to love the fly unconditionally.

Ah. Good point.
However, our suffering here on Earth is insignificant in light of eternity.

What about those of us that are going to hell for eternity?
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,077
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12/29/2014 8:19:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/29/2014 7:32:57 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 12/29/2014 7:30:51 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 12/29/2014 7:26:10 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 12/29/2014 7:23:07 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 12/29/2014 7:21:05 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 12/29/2014 7:03:33 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 12/29/2014 4:37:48 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the belief that the God of the Bible exists.

He has whims and human emotions, leading to him being cruel, ruthless and jealous pretty much in the style of the Greek gods, that were always meddling in human affairs and punishing those who refused to worship them or those who they simply didn't like for ridiculous reasons.
What4 about me? I don't want to suffer.

From the little I have read on the Bible, I don't think God cares a penny about what you want mate. Sorry.

Thank you. I wish I could feel safe from Him I am not sure, but I think I am a deist.

Do you hate God? If so, why?

I do not hate God, but I am angry at Him for forcing people to suffer

Out of curiosity, in what way do you suffer?
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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12/29/2014 8:27:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/29/2014 4:37:48 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the belief that the God of the Bible exists.

There is no such thing as suffering. I lack belief in anything called "Suffering". Suffering is a bunch weak sauce babies crying about something imaginary. Like the boogey man, or monster under some bed.
uncung
Posts: 3,464
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12/29/2014 11:49:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago

No thank you. Islam violates women's rights.

Which women's rights, Islam violets? as we know many women convert to islam, and the muslim women fond to practice their religion. Dont you see muslim women still wearing veil in the west without forcing by anyone?
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
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12/29/2014 11:56:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/29/2014 11:49:50 PM, uncung wrote:

No thank you. Islam violates women's rights.

Which women's rights, Islam violets? as we know many women convert to islam, and the muslim women fond to practice their religion. Dont you see muslim women still wearing veil in the west without forcing by anyone?

We see muslim women in the west being killed by their family for not wearing the veil.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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12/30/2014 12:29:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/29/2014 4:37:48 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the belief that the God of the Bible exists.

As others have said, the apologetics answer is that God designed human life in order to test us. If hardship makes us turn away from God, we go to Hell where we face an eternity of hardship. If hardship makes us embrace God, we get to go to Heaven, where suffering does not exist.

However, this system is illogical in so many ways. Some people are tested for only a matter of minutes because they die in childbirth, which most people say is automatic entry into heaven. If the test is so important, why are some people given such a cursory test when they die young?

Also, if suffering is important to test our faith, why end all suffering in Heaven? Why not continue to test us for eternity? A human lifetime seems like an arbitrary testing period given that some people's are so much shorter than others.

The "Heaven" explanation is merely a convenience for the people who created it. We don't know what happens after death; we only know that suffering exists in this life. It's very easy to promise unending bliss with no suffering after we die because there is no way to disprove it.

Essentially what you are describing is the problem of evil. A just God would not want his people to suffer (which is why he supposedly created Heaven). An omnipotent God could end all suffering. So either God is not just or not omnipotent.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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12/30/2014 8:18:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/29/2014 8:27:11 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 12/29/2014 4:37:48 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the belief that the God of the Bible exists.

There is no such thing as suffering. I lack belief in anything called "Suffering". Suffering is a bunch weak sauce babies crying about something imaginary. Like the boogey man, or monster under some bed.

How about all the people starving and dying from disease all over the world, you ignorant fool. That's real suffering and I doubt you or anyone else on this forum has ever had to go through it. Wake up to the reality of the world.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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12/30/2014 8:19:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/29/2014 5:10:55 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 12/29/2014 4:37:48 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the belief that the God of the Bible exists.

Who says god "forces" you to do anything? Your suffering is your own doing.

And there it is. Somehow we insignificant mortals are able to make something happen that this supposed omnipotent supernatural being doesn't really want. Quite a contradiction.
dhardage
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12/30/2014 8:22:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/29/2014 11:49:50 PM, uncung wrote:

No thank you. Islam violates women's rights.

Which women's rights, Islam violets? as we know many women convert to islam, and the muslim women fond to practice their religion. Dont you see muslim women still wearing veil in the west without forcing by anyone?

Oh, please. Women are stoned to death because they had the courage to report a rape. It's called honor killing but I see no honor in letting a man have his way with a woman and blaming her. Wake up.