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Why Noah's Ark Is Fake.

Miss_Persistent
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12/31/2014 3:40:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Play this video of Bill Nye "The Science Guy" explaining why the ark is fake.
https://www.youtube.com...
"The Heart Knows What It Wants And It's Nutella."
-Me
Gentorev
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12/31/2014 3:50:44 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 3:40:11 AM, Miss_Persistent wrote:
Play this video of Bill Nye "The Science Guy" explaining why the ark is fake.
https://www.youtube.com...

I don't open your videos, if you can't tell me why you believe that Noah's ark was a fake, I aint interested.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,240
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12/31/2014 3:52:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 3:50:44 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 12/31/2014 3:40:11 AM, Miss_Persistent wrote:
Play this video of Bill Nye "The Science Guy" explaining why the ark is fake.
https://www.youtube.com...

I don't open your videos, if you can't tell me why you believe that Noah's ark was a fake, I aint interested.

I don't open your Bibles, if you can't tell me why its not a fairy tale, I ain't interested.

Sounds pretty silly now, doesn't it?
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Gentorev
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12/31/2014 4:11:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
WAS THERE AN EVENT WHEREIN THE KNOWN WORLD OF THAT DAY WAS INUNDATED ?

The major volcanic explosion of Hekla 4 in Iceland, which spewed out massive amounts of larva, coupled with a close encounter with a passing comet and a Tunguska like fireball, are believed to have been major issues in the inundation of Island that is said to have been left waste for 30 odd years, and the devastating flood around the Mediterranean Sea, which was the known civilized world in the days of Noah around 2350 B.C, the time when this catastrophic event is said to have occurred.

To those who are interested, I would advise them to read the "Report on Second Cambridge Conference," an article by Mark Bailey Posted December 15 1997. Following is a small extract from said article.

. Marie-Agnes Courty (CNRS, Grignon) presented new archaeological data concerning a catastrophe inferred to have occurred in the Middle East c.2350 BC. She emphasized the importance of high-time-resolution archaeological investigations in the assessment of natural catastrophes on societal collapse, the data in this case indicating the combination of a burnt surface horizon and air blast, consistent with a Tunguska-like fireball, but possibly also a major volcanic event.

The evidence for regional environmental change at about the same time was confirmed and extended by Mike Baillie (Queen"s University Belfast), whose tree-ring analyses of Irish bog oaks showed very significant narrowing of the rings around the year 2345 BC, associated with identified tephra from the Icelandic Hekla 4 volcano, dated to 2310 +/- 20 BC. This suggests a volcanic origin of the c. 2350 BC event identified by Courty, but the period in question is also associated with other events, including floods, the creation of new lakes and even the traditional start of Chinese history! In Baillie"s words, 2345 BC "is a classic marker date, i.e. a date which will show up on a regular basis in studies of various kinds".

According to the Turin papyrus list, Teti ruled for six months, and Pepi 1, began his rule after Teti, which according to some, was 33 years later, leaving a gap of 33 years between Teti and his successor Pepi, this would support the belief that some catastrophic event occurred around that time, where the evidence shows that Ireland was inundated, around the time of the eruption of Helka4 and is said to have remained desolate for 30 years. A flood of that magnitude would have surely been experienced around the Mediterranean, and perhaps Egypt was also desolate and without a king or countrymen for some thirty years also.

I believe that the flood that occurred in Noah" day, around 2,350 BC, was an event that would have been recorded and handed down by a witness of that era as a world-wide flood.

According to the "Report on Second Cambridge Conference," an article by Mark Bailey Posted December 15 1997. There were major events occurring around the world at that time, floods, Meteorite strikes, presumably causing catastrophic tsunami" etc, and the flood stories are found throughout the countries of the world.

But all that is irrelevant, the world wide flood story was never meant to be taken literally, but is there to reveal a hidden truth to the diligent seekers of the hidden manna.

There are those who would argue that the ark was made of Reeds, but the Hebrew word for "Reeds," can in no way be translated as Kopherwood. Genesis 6: 14; "Make yourself an ark of Gopherwood/kopherwood; make rooms in the ark, and cover it inside and out with bitumen/pitch.

The Hebrew letter for "K" is similar to a backward facing "C," while the Hebrew letter for "G" is also similar to a backward facing "C," with a small tail. It is easy to understand that the early scholars who translated the Hebrew to English, could mistakenly have translated, "Kopherwood" which is any wood that is covered with bitumen, as "Gopherwood."

A rectangular chest-like ark built of timber logs, would of necessity, have to be sealed inside and out with bitumen to stop it from leaking, but why would you bother to seal a boat made of self floating reeds? And somehow, a reed ark with three floors just doesn"t sit right to me.

Do you think that the people of the pre-flood days knew that the circumference of the earth was almost 25,000 miles, or knew how many continents and islands there are on this earth? And if not, just how big do you think that their known world was?

According to the OT, it was some 400 year after the flood that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed, and the daughters of the righteous Lot, believed that of every man in the world, their father was the sole survivor.

The animals that were taken into the ark, would have been those, which were chosen from the animals that had fled to the higher ground upon which Noah would have presumably built the ark, which animal would have been those of his known world, etc, etc, etc..
FaustianJustice
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12/31/2014 4:20:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 4:11:45 AM, Gentorev wrote:
WAS THERE AN EVENT WHEREIN THE KNOWN WORLD OF THAT DAY WAS INUNDATED ?

The major volcanic explosion of Hekla 4 in Iceland, which spewed out massive amounts of larva, coupled with a close encounter with a passing comet and a Tunguska like fireball, are believed to have been major issues in the inundation of Island that is said to have been left waste for 30 odd years, and the devastating flood around the Mediterranean Sea, which was the known civilized world in the days of Noah around 2350 B.C, the time when this catastrophic event is said to have occurred.

To those who are interested, I would advise them to read the "Report on Second Cambridge Conference," an article by Mark Bailey Posted December 15 1997. Following is a small extract from said article.

. Marie-Agnes Courty (CNRS, Grignon) presented new archaeological data concerning a catastrophe inferred to have occurred in the Middle East c.2350 BC. She emphasized the importance of high-time-resolution archaeological investigations in the assessment of natural catastrophes on societal collapse, the data in this case indicating the combination of a burnt surface horizon and air blast, consistent with a Tunguska-like fireball, but possibly also a major volcanic event.

The evidence for regional environmental change at about the same time was confirmed and extended by Mike Baillie (Queen"s University Belfast), whose tree-ring analyses of Irish bog oaks showed very significant narrowing of the rings around the year 2345 BC, associated with identified tephra from the Icelandic Hekla 4 volcano, dated to 2310 +/- 20 BC. This suggests a volcanic origin of the c. 2350 BC event identified by Courty, but the period in question is also associated with other events, including floods, the creation of new lakes and even the traditional start of Chinese history! In Baillie"s words, 2345 BC "is a classic marker date, i.e. a date which will show up on a regular basis in studies of various kinds".

According to the Turin papyrus list, Teti ruled for six months, and Pepi 1, began his rule after Teti, which according to some, was 33 years later, leaving a gap of 33 years between Teti and his successor Pepi, this would support the belief that some catastrophic event occurred around that time, where the evidence shows that Ireland was inundated, around the time of the eruption of Helka4 and is said to have remained desolate for 30 years. A flood of that magnitude would have surely been experienced around the Mediterranean, and perhaps Egypt was also desolate and without a king or countrymen for some thirty years also.

I believe that the flood that occurred in Noah" day, around 2,350 BC, was an event that would have been recorded and handed down by a witness of that era as a world-wide flood.

According to the "Report on Second Cambridge Conference," an article by Mark Bailey Posted December 15 1997. There were major events occurring around the world at that time, floods, Meteorite strikes, presumably causing catastrophic tsunami" etc, and the flood stories are found throughout the countries of the world.

But all that is irrelevant, the world wide flood story was never meant to be taken literally, but is there to reveal a hidden truth to the diligent seekers of the hidden manna.

There are those who would argue that the ark was made of Reeds, but the Hebrew word for "Reeds," can in no way be translated as Kopherwood. Genesis 6: 14; "Make yourself an ark of Gopherwood/kopherwood; make rooms in the ark, and cover it inside and out with bitumen/pitch.

The Hebrew letter for "K" is similar to a backward facing "C," while the Hebrew letter for "G" is also similar to a backward facing "C," with a small tail. It is easy to understand that the early scholars who translated the Hebrew to English, could mistakenly have translated, "Kopherwood" which is any wood that is covered with bitumen, as "Gopherwood."

A rectangular chest-like ark built of timber logs, would of necessity, have to be sealed inside and out with bitumen to stop it from leaking, but why would you bother to seal a boat made of self floating reeds? And somehow, a reed ark with three floors just doesn"t sit right to me.

Do you think that the people of the pre-flood days knew that the circumference of the earth was almost 25,000 miles, or knew how many continents and islands there are on this earth? And if not, just how big do you think that their known world was?

According to the OT, it was some 400 year after the flood that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed, and the daughters of the righteous Lot, believed that of every man in the world, their father was the sole survivor.

The animals that were taken into the ark, would have been those, which were chosen from the animals that had fled to the higher ground upon which Noah would have presumably built the ark, which animal would have been those of his known world, etc, etc, etc..

So, in the first few chapters of the Bible, the objective truth on which people found their morality, their perception of the Almighty, we have 2 stories which... well... probably should be a parable instead of a literal event. The rest of it though, the rest of it, is exactly as written. Yup. No more 'interpretation', just rock solid as is verbiage, right?
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Beastt
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12/31/2014 4:37:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 3:50:44 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 12/31/2014 3:40:11 AM, Miss_Persistent wrote:
Play this video of Bill Nye "The Science Guy" explaining why the ark is fake.
https://www.youtube.com...

I don't open your videos, if you can't tell me why you believe that Noah's ark was a fake, I aint interested.

It is possible that you're simply not interested in anything that shows many of the stories of the Bible to be false? I'm truly amazed when I find people who can't figure out for themselves why the story of the ark and the flood is fiction.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Envisage
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12/31/2014 4:45:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
No global flood occurred within the last 5,000 years, which is what the Noachian Flood predicts.

Thus, the story of Noah's Ark is falsified.

/thread
YassineB
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12/31/2014 4:49:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 3:40:11 AM, Miss_Persistent wrote:
Play this video of Bill Nye "The Science Guy" explaining why the ark is fake.
https://www.youtube.com...

- In the Qur'anic view: the flood only happened in the area between the Levant & Anatolia.
=> So, Bill Nye's argument in this case is obsolete.
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bulproof
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12/31/2014 5:06:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 4:49:54 AM, YassineB wrote:
At 12/31/2014 3:40:11 AM, Miss_Persistent wrote:
Play this video of Bill Nye "The Science Guy" explaining why the ark is fake.
https://www.youtube.com...

- In the Qur'anic view: the flood only happened in the area between the Levant & Anatolia.
=> So, Bill Nye's argument in this case is obsolete.

I guess muhammad didn't remember that bit of the bible correctly either.
Beastt
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12/31/2014 5:09:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 4:11:45 AM, Gentorev wrote:
WAS THERE AN EVENT WHEREIN THE KNOWN WORLD OF THAT DAY WAS INUNDATED ?

The major volcanic explosion of Hekla 4 in Iceland, which spewed out massive amounts of larva, coupled with a close encounter with a passing comet and a Tunguska like fireball, are believed to have been major issues in the inundation of Island that is said to have been left waste for 30 odd years, and the devastating flood around the Mediterranean Sea, which was the known civilized world in the days of Noah around 2350 B.C, the time when this catastrophic event is said to have occurred.
Are you suggesting that Noah or one of his family members recorded this?

To those who are interested, I would advise them to read the "Report on Second Cambridge Conference," an article by Mark Bailey Posted December 15 1997. Following is a small extract from said article.

. Marie-Agnes Courty (CNRS, Grignon) presented new archaeological data concerning a catastrophe inferred to have occurred in the Middle East c.2350 BC. She emphasized the importance of high-time-resolution archaeological investigations in the assessment of natural catastrophes on societal collapse, the data in this case indicating the combination of a burnt surface horizon and air blast, consistent with a Tunguska-like fireball, but possibly also a major volcanic event.
Can they demonstrate a gap in human history consistent with the human population of Earth being reduced to eight individuals?

The evidence for regional environmental change at about the same time was confirmed and extended by Mike Baillie (Queen"s University Belfast), whose tree-ring analyses of Irish bog oaks showed very significant narrowing of the rings around the year 2345 BC, associated with identified tephra from the Icelandic Hekla 4 volcano, dated to 2310 +/- 20 BC. This suggests a volcanic origin of the c. 2350 BC event identified by Courty, but the period in question is also associated with other events, including floods, the creation of new lakes and even the traditional start of Chinese history! In Baillie"s words, 2345 BC "is a classic marker date, i.e. a date which will show up on a regular basis in studies of various kinds".
If I see a basket lined with a red and white checkered cloth, intended for holding a packed lunch, and a few days later, I see a young female wearing a red jacket with a hood, does that make the story of "Little Red Riding Hood" true?

Anyone can pick and choose from bits of evidence which might support a story and completely ignore the evidence disproving the story. That's not honest and it won't produce an accurate picture of reality. You're ignoring all of the evidence and logical arguments against the flood, injecting volcanic activity never mentioned in the Bible story, and trying to suggest that your few bits and pieces make the story credible.


According to the Turin papyrus list, Teti ruled for six months, and Pepi 1, began his rule after Teti, which according to some, was 33 years later, leaving a gap of 33 years between Teti and his successor Pepi, this would support the belief that some catastrophic event occurred around that time, where the evidence shows that Ireland was inundated, around the time of the eruption of Helka4 and is said to have remained desolate for 30 years. A flood of that magnitude would have surely been experienced around the Mediterranean, and perhaps Egypt was also desolate and without a king or countrymen for some thirty years also.
Perhaps? This sounds very much like the argument, "If you can't prove that it wasn't, then it was". That's a fallacious stance.

I believe that the flood that occurred in Noah" day, around 2,350 BC, was an event that would have been recorded and handed down by a witness of that era as a world-wide flood.
Except that it never happened. And that's a statement anyone can make after looking at the evidence and lack of credibility behind the story and hold absolutely no doubt.

According to the "Report on Second Cambridge Conference," an article by Mark Bailey Posted December 15 1997. There were major events occurring around the world at that time, floods, Meteorite strikes, presumably causing catastrophic tsunami" etc, and the flood stories are found throughout the countries of the world.
And many of these stories are older than the flood story in the Bible, but do not fit with the Christian beliefs. So Christianity plagiarized the story and twisted it to fit their views and religious beliefs. (Obviously, the Jews did this before the Christians).

But all that is irrelevant, the world wide flood story was never meant to be taken literally, but is there to reveal a hidden truth to the diligent seekers of the hidden manna.
So the world was flooded, every animal died except for those on the ark... but it didn't happen because the story - ACCORDING TO YOU - isn't intended to be taken literally. And this is the final escape for every Bible-believing Christian who comes to accept that the stories of the Bible are simply not true. Suddenly, it's not to be taken literally, despite the fact that only 400-years ago, the church was still executing people for announcing credible evidence which conflicted with the literal interpretation of the Bible. If the Bible isn't literal, then it's open to tens of thousands of different interpretations, with no way to find any one of them any more or less credible than the rest. That makes the Bible absolutely useless.

There are those who would argue that the ark was made of Reeds, but the Hebrew word for "Reeds," can in no way be translated as Kopherwood. Genesis 6: 14; "Make yourself an ark of Gopherwood/kopherwood; make rooms in the ark, and cover it inside and out with bitumen/pitch.
Seal two beams with pitch. Now place a few hundred tons of twisting force across those beams. Watch how well the pitch maintains the seal between them. (it won't.)

The Hebrew letter for "K" is similar to a backward facing "C," while the Hebrew letter for "G" is also similar to a backward facing "C," with a small tail. It is easy to understand that the early scholars who translated the Hebrew to English, could mistakenly have translated, "Kopherwood" which is any wood that is covered with bitumen, as "Gopherwood."
Lending no credibility to the story.

A rectangular chest-like ark built of timber logs, would of necessity, have to be sealed inside and out with bitumen to stop it from leaking, but why would you bother to seal a boat made of self floating reeds? And somehow, a reed ark with three floors just doesn"t sit right to me.
And a rectangular vessel would be flipped by the first large waving hitting it from the side. In rough seas (which would be an automatic result of a global flood), you have to be able to keep the point of the bow driving into oncoming waves or you will invert.

Do you think that the people of the pre-flood days knew that the circumference of the earth was almost 25,000 miles, or knew how many continents and islands there are on this earth? And if not, just how big do you think that their known world was?
So your argument is now that the "Word of God" is just the misconceptions of people? I'd agree with that.

According to the OT, it was some 400 year after the flood that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed, and the daughters of the righteous Lot, believed that of every man in the world, their father was the sole survivor.
Does that somehow lend credibility to the flood story?

The animals that were taken into the ark, would have been those, which were chosen from the animals that had fled to the higher ground upon which Noah would have presumably built the ark, which animal would have been those of his known world, etc, etc, etc..
Do you mean like humpback whales, sperm whales and blue whales? Did Noah transport those in dehydrated form?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
YassineB
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12/31/2014 5:14:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 5:06:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/31/2014 4:49:54 AM, YassineB wrote:
At 12/31/2014 3:40:11 AM, Miss_Persistent wrote:
Play this video of Bill Nye "The Science Guy" explaining why the ark is fake.
https://www.youtube.com...

- In the Qur'anic view: the flood only happened in the area between the Levant & Anatolia.
=> So, Bill Nye's argument in this case is obsolete.

I guess muhammad didn't remember that bit of the bible correctly either.

- I wonder why the wrong bits weren't picked up by the Qur'an?!
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bulproof
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12/31/2014 5:20:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 5:14:50 AM, YassineB wrote:
At 12/31/2014 5:06:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/31/2014 4:49:54 AM, YassineB wrote:
At 12/31/2014 3:40:11 AM, Miss_Persistent wrote:
Play this video of Bill Nye "The Science Guy" explaining why the ark is fake.
https://www.youtube.com...

- In the Qur'anic view: the flood only happened in the area between the Levant & Anatolia.
=> So, Bill Nye's argument in this case is obsolete.

I guess muhammad didn't remember that bit of the bible correctly either.

- I wonder why the wrong bits weren't picked up by the Qur'an?!

I'm sorry, I can't answer that you would probably find it insulting.
Such is the religion forum now.
Gentorev
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12/31/2014 7:49:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The Flood of Noah didn"t come as a surprise. It had been preached on for four generations. But something strange happened when Enoch was 65, from which time "he walked with God." Enoch was given a prophecy that as long as his firstborn son "Methusulah" was alive, the judgment of the flood would be withheld; but as soon as he died, the flood would be sent forth.

Enoch named his firstborn to reflect this prophecy. The name Methuselah comes from two roots: muth, a root that means "death;" and from shalach, which means "to bring," or "to send forth." Thus, the name Methuselah signifies, "his death shall bring." And, indeed, in the year that Methuselah died, the flood came. The name "Noah" means, "One who brings relief or comfort?"

According to the OT, Noah live for 350 years after the flood and Abraham was born 292 years after the flood, which means that Abraham was about 58 when Noah died, and would have learned all about the flood story from his most ancient patriarch. Abraham lived with his father "Terah" who was the High Priest in the Chaldean city of Ur.

I"m not too sure from where the following Chaldean flood story came from. I am assuming that it was googled up by somebody and posted to me on some forum, and which I found interesting enough to file away.

Over 2000 years before George Smith"s discovery of the deluge tablets in Iraq, there existed an account of the Chaldean (pre-Babylonian) flood myth, Abraham was a Chaldean who father, "Terah" was high priest in the Chaldean city of Ur. Berosus, an ancient Chaldean historian living in the time of Alexander the Great in the 4th century B.C.E, relayed to the Greeks the antiquity of his people"s deluge myth in the following words:

"After the death of Ardates, his son Xisuthrus reigned eighteen sari. In his time happened a great deluge; the history of which is thus described. The deity Cronos appeared to him in a vision, and warned him that upon the fifteenth day of the month Daesius there would be a flood, by which mankind would be destroyed. He therefore enjoined him to write a history of the beginning, procedure, and conclusion of all things, and to bury it in the city of the Sun at Sippara; and to build a vessel, and take with him into it his friends and relations; and to convey on board everything necessary to sustain life, together with all the different animals, both birds and quadrupeds, and trust himself fearlessly to the deep.

Having asked the Deity whither he was to sail, he was answered, To the Gods; upon which he offered up a prayer for the good of mankind. He then obeyed the divine admonition and built a vessel five stadia in length, and two in breadth. Into this he put everything which he had prepared, and last of all conveyed into it his wife, his children, and his friends.

After the flood had been upon the earth, and was in time abated, Xisuthrus sent out birds from the vessel; which not finding any food, nor any place whereupon they might rest their feet, returned to him again. After an interval of some days, he sent them forth a second time; and they now returned with their feet tinged with mud. He made a trial a third time with these birds; but they returned to him no more: from whence he judged that the surface of the earth had appeared above the waters.

He therefore made an opening in the vessel, and upon looking out found that it was stranded upon the side of some mountain; upon which he immediately quitted it with his wife, his daughter, and the pilot. Xisuthrus then paid his adoration to the earth: and, having constructed an altar, offered sacrifices to the gods"" .

It should be noted that the account of the deluge relayed in the tablets discovered by George Smith differ only very slightly from Berosus" account, leaving all of the essential motifs intact.

Another interesting similarity between the Chaldean deluge story and the Hebrew one is that, before the flood, people lived extraordinary long lives until the god/gods declared that man shall no longer live past a restricted age limit. This signifies that the floods of both cultures mark the same transition in the history of the world, that being, the birth of the modern world.

As I have said previously, the Flood of Noah didn"t come as a surprise. It had been preached on for four generations. But something strange happened when Enoch was 65, from which time "he walked with God." Enoch was given a prophecy that as long as his firstborn son "Methusulah" was alive, the judgment of the flood would be withheld; but as soon as he died, the flood would be sent forth.

Enoch named his firstborn to reflect this prophecy. The name Methuselah comes from two roots: muth, a root that means "death;" and from shalach, which means "to bring," or "to send forth." Thus, the name Methuselah signifies, "his death shall bring." And, indeed, in the year that Methuselah died, the flood came. The name "Noah" means, "One who brings relief or comfort?"

Could the Chaldean name "Ardates," mean, "When he dies it will happen?" And could the name "Xisuthrus" have the same meaning as the name "Noah" which is, "One who brings relief or comfort?"

The Chaldean month of "Daesius," is the second month, which corresponds with the biblical account, that it was in the second month that the flood came. But there is a two day discrepancy. The biblical account is the seventh day, whereas the other is the 15th day.

I am convinced that some catastrophic event occurred 5350-6000 years ago, which caused worldwide devastating floods and tsunamis, of which the more accurate account, can be found in the Hebrew culture that came down from the Chaldean Abraham, and his family, who have remained intact as a racial religion for some 5,000 years.
bulproof
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12/31/2014 8:00:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Apparently if you can convince yourself that the worldwide flood was actually just a tiny flood in some small valley in the desert then that makes the bible true.
How wonderful is that?
The bible is right because it tells a believable lie. hahahahaha
I do hope I didn't insult you.
DanneJeRusse
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12/31/2014 9:19:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 4:49:54 AM, YassineB wrote:
At 12/31/2014 3:40:11 AM, Miss_Persistent wrote:
Play this video of Bill Nye "The Science Guy" explaining why the ark is fake.
https://www.youtube.com...

- In the Qur'anic view: the flood only happened in the area between the Levant & Anatolia.

So, who did the research and studies to confirm that? Muhammad? I thought he was illiterate?

Please explain how the Quran manages to know that?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
bornofgod
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12/31/2014 9:32:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 7:49:02 AM, Gentorev wrote:
The Flood of Noah didn"t come as a surprise. It had been preached on for four generations. But something strange happened when Enoch was 65, from which time "he walked with God." Enoch was given a prophecy that as long as his firstborn son "Methusulah" was alive, the judgment of the flood would be withheld; but as soon as he died, the flood would be sent forth.

Enoch named his firstborn to reflect this prophecy. The name Methuselah comes from two roots: muth, a root that means "death;" and from shalach, which means "to bring," or "to send forth." Thus, the name Methuselah signifies, "his death shall bring." And, indeed, in the year that Methuselah died, the flood came. The name "Noah" means, "One who brings relief or comfort?"

According to the OT, Noah live for 350 years after the flood and Abraham was born 292 years after the flood, which means that Abraham was about 58 when Noah died, and would have learned all about the flood story from his most ancient patriarch. Abraham lived with his father "Terah" who was the High Priest in the Chaldean city of Ur.

I"m not too sure from where the following Chaldean flood story came from. I am assuming that it was googled up by somebody and posted to me on some forum, and which I found interesting enough to file away.

Over 2000 years before George Smith"s discovery of the deluge tablets in Iraq, there existed an account of the Chaldean (pre-Babylonian) flood myth, Abraham was a Chaldean who father, "Terah" was high priest in the Chaldean city of Ur. Berosus, an ancient Chaldean historian living in the time of Alexander the Great in the 4th century B.C.E, relayed to the Greeks the antiquity of his people"s deluge myth in the following words:

"After the death of Ardates, his son Xisuthrus reigned eighteen sari. In his time happened a great deluge; the history of which is thus described. The deity Cronos appeared to him in a vision, and warned him that upon the fifteenth day of the month Daesius there would be a flood, by which mankind would be destroyed. He therefore enjoined him to write a history of the beginning, procedure, and conclusion of all things, and to bury it in the city of the Sun at Sippara; and to build a vessel, and take with him into it his friends and relations; and to convey on board everything necessary to sustain life, together with all the different animals, both birds and quadrupeds, and trust himself fearlessly to the deep.

Having asked the Deity whither he was to sail, he was answered, To the Gods; upon which he offered up a prayer for the good of mankind. He then obeyed the divine admonition and built a vessel five stadia in length, and two in breadth. Into this he put everything which he had prepared, and last of all conveyed into it his wife, his children, and his friends.

After the flood had been upon the earth, and was in time abated, Xisuthrus sent out birds from the vessel; which not finding any food, nor any place whereupon they might rest their feet, returned to him again. After an interval of some days, he sent them forth a second time; and they now returned with their feet tinged with mud. He made a trial a third time with these birds; but they returned to him no more: from whence he judged that the surface of the earth had appeared above the waters.

He therefore made an opening in the vessel, and upon looking out found that it was stranded upon the side of some mountain; upon which he immediately quitted it with his wife, his daughter, and the pilot. Xisuthrus then paid his adoration to the earth: and, having constructed an altar, offered sacrifices to the gods"" .

It should be noted that the account of the deluge relayed in the tablets discovered by George Smith differ only very slightly from Berosus" account, leaving all of the essential motifs intact.

Another interesting similarity between the Chaldean deluge story and the Hebrew one is that, before the flood, people lived extraordinary long lives until the god/gods declared that man shall no longer live past a restricted age limit. This signifies that the floods of both cultures mark the same transition in the history of the world, that being, the birth of the modern world.

As I have said previously, the Flood of Noah didn"t come as a surprise. It had been preached on for four generations. But something strange happened when Enoch was 65, from which time "he walked with God." Enoch was given a prophecy that as long as his firstborn son "Methusulah" was alive, the judgment of the flood would be withheld; but as soon as he died, the flood would be sent forth.

Enoch named his firstborn to reflect this prophecy. The name Methuselah comes from two roots: muth, a root that means "death;" and from shalach, which means "to bring," or "to send forth." Thus, the name Methuselah signifies, "his death shall bring." And, indeed, in the year that Methuselah died, the flood came. The name "Noah" means, "One who brings relief or comfort?"

Could the Chaldean name "Ardates," mean, "When he dies it will happen?" And could the name "Xisuthrus" have the same meaning as the name "Noah" which is, "One who brings relief or comfort?"

The Chaldean month of "Daesius," is the second month, which corresponds with the biblical account, that it was in the second month that the flood came. But there is a two day discrepancy. The biblical account is the seventh day, whereas the other is the 15th day.

I am convinced that some catastrophic event occurred 5350-6000 years ago, which caused worldwide devastating floods and tsunamis, of which the more accurate account, can be found in the Hebrew culture that came down from the Chaldean Abraham, and his family, who have remained intact as a racial religion for some 5,000 years.

You are living proof as to why the Bible doesn't contain any of the original testimonies by God's prophets and saints.
YassineB
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12/31/2014 11:16:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 9:19:17 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/31/2014 4:49:54 AM, YassineB wrote:
At 12/31/2014 3:40:11 AM, Miss_Persistent wrote:
Play this video of Bill Nye "The Science Guy" explaining why the ark is fake.
https://www.youtube.com...

- In the Qur'anic view: the flood only happened in the area between the Levant & Anatolia.

So, who did the research and studies to confirm that? Muhammad? I thought he was illiterate?

Please explain how the Quran manages to know that?

- The Qur'an says: "Until when Our command came and water came forth from the valley, We said: Carry in it two of all things, a pair, and your own family -except those about whom the word has preceded-, and [include] whoever has believed." But none had believed with him, except a few." (11:40)
=> So it's understood that the flood started in a mountain area. & according to the Hadith & Tafsir, only 70 people boarded the ship along with their mating animals.
- "Noah called to his son who was apart [from them], "O my son, come aboard with us and be not with the disbelievers." [But] he (the son) said, "I will take refuge on a mountain to protect me from the water"." (11:42-43)
=> It's clear from the verse, that the flood happened in a mountain area, but which area?
- "[. . .] the matter was accomplished, and the ship came to rest on the [mountain of] Judiyy" (11:44) <<< Mt Judiyy is said to be located between the Levant & Anatolia (now between the borders of Syria & Turkey).

==>> So, the story is rather ordinary, & quite precise.
Current Debates In Voting Period:

- The Qur'an We Have Today is Not What Muhammad Dictated Verbatim. Vs. @Envisage:
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DanneJeRusse
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12/31/2014 11:19:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 11:16:48 AM, YassineB wrote:
At 12/31/2014 9:19:17 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/31/2014 4:49:54 AM, YassineB wrote:
At 12/31/2014 3:40:11 AM, Miss_Persistent wrote:
Play this video of Bill Nye "The Science Guy" explaining why the ark is fake.
https://www.youtube.com...

- In the Qur'anic view: the flood only happened in the area between the Levant & Anatolia.

So, who did the research and studies to confirm that? Muhammad? I thought he was illiterate?

Please explain how the Quran manages to know that?

- The Qur'an says: "Until when Our command came and water came forth from the valley, We said: Carry in it two of all things, a pair, and your own family -except those about whom the word has preceded-, and [include] whoever has believed." But none had believed with him, except a few." (11:40)
=> So it's understood that the flood started in a mountain area. & according to the Hadith & Tafsir, only 70 people boarded the ship along with their mating animals.
- "Noah called to his son who was apart [from them], "O my son, come aboard with us and be not with the disbelievers." [But] he (the son) said, "I will take refuge on a mountain to protect me from the water"." (11:42-43)
=> It's clear from the verse, that the flood happened in a mountain area, but which area?
- "[. . .] the matter was accomplished, and the ship came to rest on the [mountain of] Judiyy" (11:44) <<< Mt Judiyy is said to be located between the Levant & Anatolia (now between the borders of Syria & Turkey).

==>> So, the story is rather ordinary, & quite precise.

Again, how does the Quran know any of that other than from the very same sources? Who did the research on that? Muhammad?

You haven't explained anything.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
YassineB
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12/31/2014 11:35:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 11:19:38 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/31/2014 11:16:48 AM, YassineB wrote:
At 12/31/2014 9:19:17 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/31/2014 4:49:54 AM, YassineB wrote:
At 12/31/2014 3:40:11 AM, Miss_Persistent wrote:
Play this video of Bill Nye "The Science Guy" explaining why the ark is fake.
https://www.youtube.com...

- In the Qur'anic view: the flood only happened in the area between the Levant & Anatolia.

So, who did the research and studies to confirm that? Muhammad? I thought he was illiterate?

Please explain how the Quran manages to know that?

- The Qur'an says: "Until when Our command came and water came forth from the valley, We said: Carry in it two of all things, a pair, and your own family -except those about whom the word has preceded-, and [include] whoever has believed." But none had believed with him, except a few." (11:40)
=> So it's understood that the flood started in a mountain area. & according to the Hadith & Tafsir, only 70 people boarded the ship along with their mating animals.
- "Noah called to his son who was apart [from them], "O my son, come aboard with us and be not with the disbelievers." [But] he (the son) said, "I will take refuge on a mountain to protect me from the water"." (11:42-43)
=> It's clear from the verse, that the flood happened in a mountain area, but which area?
- "[. . .] the matter was accomplished, and the ship came to rest on the [mountain of] Judiyy" (11:44) <<< Mt Judiyy is said to be located between the Levant & Anatolia (now between the borders of Syria & Turkey).

==>> So, the story is rather ordinary, & quite precise.

Again, how does the Quran know any of that other than from the very same sources? Who did the research on that? Muhammad?

You haven't explained anything.

- Well, in that case, I must have not understood your question? What do you mean?
Current Debates In Voting Period:

- The Qur'an We Have Today is Not What Muhammad Dictated Verbatim. Vs. @Envisage:
http://www.debate.org...

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http://www.debate.org...

"It is perfectly permissible to vote on sources without reading them" bluesteel.
DanneJeRusse
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12/31/2014 11:39:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 11:35:41 AM, YassineB wrote:
At 12/31/2014 11:19:38 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/31/2014 11:16:48 AM, YassineB wrote:
At 12/31/2014 9:19:17 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/31/2014 4:49:54 AM, YassineB wrote:
At 12/31/2014 3:40:11 AM, Miss_Persistent wrote:
Play this video of Bill Nye "The Science Guy" explaining why the ark is fake.
https://www.youtube.com...

- In the Qur'anic view: the flood only happened in the area between the Levant & Anatolia.

So, who did the research and studies to confirm that? Muhammad? I thought he was illiterate?

Please explain how the Quran manages to know that?

- The Qur'an says: "Until when Our command came and water came forth from the valley, We said: Carry in it two of all things, a pair, and your own family -except those about whom the word has preceded-, and [include] whoever has believed." But none had believed with him, except a few." (11:40)
=> So it's understood that the flood started in a mountain area. & according to the Hadith & Tafsir, only 70 people boarded the ship along with their mating animals.
- "Noah called to his son who was apart [from them], "O my son, come aboard with us and be not with the disbelievers." [But] he (the son) said, "I will take refuge on a mountain to protect me from the water"." (11:42-43)
=> It's clear from the verse, that the flood happened in a mountain area, but which area?
- "[. . .] the matter was accomplished, and the ship came to rest on the [mountain of] Judiyy" (11:44) <<< Mt Judiyy is said to be located between the Levant & Anatolia (now between the borders of Syria & Turkey).

==>> So, the story is rather ordinary, & quite precise.

Again, how does the Quran know any of that other than from the very same sources? Who did the research on that? Muhammad?

You haven't explained anything.

- Well, in that case, I must have not understood your question? What do you mean?

Are you serious? LOL. Where does the Quran get it's information? Muhammad? Gabriel? Allah? Where are the sources for the claims of the flood in the Quran? Do you not understand this very simple request? Who did the research for the Quran?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Gentorev
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12/31/2014 5:24:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The major volcanic explosion of Hekla 4 in Iceland, which spewed out massive amounts of larva, coupled with a close encounter with a passing comet and a Tunguska like fireball, are believed to have been major issues in the inundation of Island that is said to have been left waste for 30 odd years, and the devastating flood around the Mediterranean Sea, which was the known civilized world in the days of Noah around 2350 B.C, the time when this catastrophic event is said to have occurred.

Beastt wrote.......Are you suggesting that Noah or one of his family members recorded this?

Gentorev...........I have revealed to you that the flood which inundated the known world of the recorder of the event, occurred over four thousand years ago, and I have also revealed to you that the "Second Cambridge Conference" was held in 1997. Now you ask, if the people who lived over four thousand years ago, recorded the results of the scientific conference of 1997; proving beyond any doubt that you are absolutely incapable of comprehending anything that you read.

To those who are interested, I would advise them to read the "Report on Second Cambridge Conference," an article by Mark Bailey Posted December 15 1997. Following is a small extract from said article.

. Marie-Agnes Courty (CNRS, Grignon) presented new archaeological data concerning a catastrophe inferred to have occurred in the Middle East c.2350 BC. She emphasized the importance of high-time-resolution archaeological investigations in the assessment of natural catastrophes on societal collapse, the data in this case indicating the combination of a burnt surface horizon and air blast, consistent with a Tunguska-like fireball, but possibly also a major volcanic event.

Beastt wrote............Can they demonstrate a gap in human history consistent with the human population of Earth being reduced to eight individuals?

Gentorev...........No! and no "SANE" person would even ask if the hundred astronomers, historians, archaeologists and others who gathered in Cambridge from 11-13 July 1997 for the second international conference of the Society for Interdisciplinary Studies could possibly know the survival rate of such a catastrophe that flooded the known civilized world of that time.
.
The evidence for regional environmental change at about the same time was confirmed and extended by Mike Baillie (Queen"s University Belfast), whose tree-ring analyses of Irish bog oaks showed very significant narrowing of the rings around the year 2345 BC, associated with identified tephra from the Icelandic Hekla 4 volcano, dated to 2310 +/- 20 BC. This suggests a volcanic origin of the c. 2350 BC event identified by Courty, but the period in question is also associated with other events, including floods, the creation of new lakes and even the traditional start of Chinese history! In Baillie"s words, 2345 BC "is a classic marker date, i.e. a date which will show up on a regular basis in studies of various kinds".

Beastt wrote................If I see a basket lined with a red and white checkered cloth, intended for holding a packed lunch, and a few days later, I see a young female wearing a red jacket with a hood, does that make the story of "Little Red Riding Hood" true?

Gentorev........Then you stick to your fairy tale stories young fellow, while I continue to reveal that through scientific studies it has been proven that a catastrophic flood event did occur in the known civilized world at the exact biblical date of the time in which Noah lived

Beastt wrote.........Anyone can pick and choose from bits of evidence which might support a story and completely ignore the evidence disproving the story. That's not honest and it won't produce an accurate picture of reality.

Gentorev.........I know this. For that is exactly what the high priests of your atheist religion do.

Beastt wrote........ You're ignoring all of the evidence and logical arguments against the flood, injecting volcanic activity never mentioned in the Bible story, and trying to suggest that your few bits and pieces make the story credible.

Gentorev.........No mate, I"m simply ignoring all the bits and pieces of evidence chosen by your high priests, which illogical arguments do nothing to disprove the scientific studies that reveal that there was a catastrophic flood event that occurred in the time of Noah.

According to the Turin papyrus list, Teti ruled for six months, and Pepi 1, began his rule after Teti, which according to some, was 33 years later, leaving a gap of 33 years between Teti and his successor Pepi, this would support the belief that some catastrophic event occurred around that time, where the evidence shows that Ireland was inundated, around the time of the eruption of Helka4 and is said to have remained desolate for 30 years. A flood of that magnitude would have surely been experienced around the Mediterranean, and perhaps Egypt was also desolate and without a king or countrymen for some thirty years also.

Beastt wrote........Perhaps? This sounds very much like the argument, "If you can't prove that it wasn't, then it was". That's a fallacious stance.

Gentorev..........No! It is simply a question that I put to those with enquiring minds, (Which obviously rules many atheists out) asking if the 33 year gap between Teti who only ruled for six months, and his successor "PEPI" could have coincided with the 30 odd years that Ireland is said to have lain waste because of the inundation in the time of Noah.

I believe that the flood that occurred in Noah" day, around 2,350 BC, was an event that would have been recorded and handed down by a witness of that era as a world-wide flood.

Beastt wrote.............. Except that it never happened. And that's a statement anyone can make after looking at the evidence and lack of credibility behind the story and hold absolutely no doubt

Gentorev................ Except that it never happened? So says the great scientific mind of the Beastt, who has proven time and time again that he is incapable of comprehending the written word.

As to the statement that "IT NEVER HAPPENED:" Well, anyone belonging to the atheist religion can and do make such statements, even after looking at the evidence, which evidence proves that a catastrophic flood event occurred in the known civilized world in the days of Noah. They choose to ignore the scientific evidence that gives credibility to the biblical story of which there is absolutely no doubt that a catastrophic flood event did occur in the days of Noah.

The animals that were taken into the ark, would have been those, which were chosen from the animals that had fled to the higher ground upon which Noah would have presumably built the ark, which animal would have been those of his known world, etc, etc, etc..

Beastt wrote............. Do you mean like humpback whales, sperm whales and blue

Gentorev.............No mate, I believe that every person on this forum, except for some of the atheists who are totally ignorant as to what the scriptures reveal, realize, that the whales that you refer to, would have been blissfully swimming in the flood waters.

To be continued:
YassineB
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12/31/2014 10:08:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 11:39:13 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
- The Qur'an says: "Until when Our command came and water came forth from the valley, We said: Carry in it two of all things, a pair, and your own family -except those about whom the word has preceded-, and [include] whoever has believed." But none had believed with him, except a few." (11:40)
=> So it's understood that the flood started in a mountain area. & according to the Hadith & Tafsir, only 70 people boarded the ship along with their mating animals.
- "Noah called to his son who was apart [from them], "O my son, come aboard with us and be not with the disbelievers." [But] he (the son) said, "I will take refuge on a mountain to protect me from the water"." (11:42-43)
=> It's clear from the verse, that the flood happened in a mountain area, but which area?
- "[. . .] the matter was accomplished, and the ship came to rest on the [mountain of] Judiyy" (11:44) <<< Mt Judiyy is said to be located between the Levant & Anatolia (now between the borders of Syria & Turkey).

==>> So, the story is rather ordinary, & quite precise.

Again, how does the Quran know any of that other than from the very same sources? Who did the research on that? Muhammad?

You haven't explained anything.

- Well, in that case, I must have not understood your question? What do you mean?

Are you serious? LOL. Where does the Quran get it's information? Muhammad? Gabriel? Allah? Where are the sources for the claims of the flood in the Quran? Do you not understand this very simple request? Who did the research for the Quran?

- Are you joking?
- The Qur'an supposes itself as a Revelation from God. The source is thus, supposedly,, God.

==>> The point I am trying to make is that:: Bill Nayer's arguments against the flood in the Biblical Narrative, will turn obsolete if applied for Qur'anic Narartive.
Current Debates In Voting Period:

- The Qur'an We Have Today is Not What Muhammad Dictated Verbatim. Vs. @Envisage:
http://www.debate.org...

- Drawing Contest. Vs. @purpleduck:
http://www.debate.org...

"It is perfectly permissible to vote on sources without reading them" bluesteel.
DanneJeRusse
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12/31/2014 10:58:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 10:08:01 PM, YassineB wrote:

- Are you joking?
- The Qur'an supposes itself as a Revelation from God. The source is thus, supposedly,, God.

LOL. And as usual, we are treated to the same lame answer: Godunnit.

==>> The point I am trying to make is that:: Bill Nayer's arguments against the flood in the Biblical Narrative, will turn obsolete if applied for Qur'anic Narartive.

Of course, everything is obsolete when applied for 'Qur'anic Narartive"

You Islamic propagandists are firetrucking hilarious.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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1/1/2015 1:11:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 5:24:08 PM, Gentorev wrote:
The major volcanic explosion of Hekla 4 in Iceland, which spewed out massive amounts of larva, coupled with a close encounter with a passing comet and a Tunguska like fireball, are believed to have been major issues in the inundation of Island that is said to have been left waste for 30 odd years, and the devastating flood around the Mediterranean Sea, which was the known civilized world in the days of Noah around 2350 B.C, the time when this catastrophic event is said to have occurred.

Beastt wrote.......Are you suggesting that Noah or one of his family members recorded this?

Gentorev...........I have revealed to you that the flood which inundated the known world of the recorder of the event
Okay, let's talk a little bit about you thinking you're Mr. Magical. You haven't "revealed" anything to me. You're trying to build a case - the upshot of which is - God didn't know what was the whole world, and what wasn't. Kinda lame for an omniscient entity, don't you think?

occurred over four thousand years ago, and I have also revealed to you that the "Second Cambridge Conference" was held in 1997. Now you ask, if the people who lived over four thousand years ago, recorded the results of the scientific conference of 1997.
No I didn't. Please read my question. Since you're suggesting that this might be the event known as the "biblical flood", it's up to you to decide who documented these events. Did Noah and his family document them and conceal the documents on the Ark? If anyone else had written them, they'd have likely been destroyed in the flood (had it actually happened).

proving beyond any doubt that you are absolutely incapable of comprehending anything that you read.
Oh, okay... yeah it's all me. (I've heard it's best to humor them.)

To those who are interested, I would advise them to read the "Report on Second Cambridge Conference," an article by Mark Bailey Posted December 15 1997. Following is a small extract from said article.
I know you think you're Mr. Wizard and everyone who opposes you is an imbecile but it's "excerpt", not "extract". Vanilla oil is an "extract" of the vanilla bean. I don't think that's quite what you mean.

. Marie-Agnes Courty (CNRS, Grignon) presented new archaeological data concerning a catastrophe inferred to have occurred in the Middle East c.2350 BC. She emphasized the importance of high-time-resolution archaeological investigations in the assessment of natural catastrophes on societal collapse, the data in this case indicating the combination of a burnt surface horizon and air blast, consistent with a Tunguska-like fireball, but possibly also a major volcanic event.
And what does this have to do with the biblical claim of geysers and 40-days and nights of rain?

Beastt wrote............Can they demonstrate a gap in human history consistent with the human population of Earth being reduced to eight individuals?

Gentorev...........No! and no "SANE" person would even ask if the hundred astronomers, historians, archaeologists and others who gathered in Cambridge from 11-13 July 1997 for the second international conference of the Society for Interdisciplinary Studies could possibly know the survival rate of such a catastrophe that flooded the known civilized world of that time.
Let's have just a wee look at some of the specifics here. You read a book which mentions talking snakes, wizards, giants, zombies, witches, sea monsters and unicorns; but when I ask if a gap in human history can be demonstrated then I'M THE ONE LACKING SANITY? Here's a tip for you. Press down while turning; take as directed by your mental health professional.

So I take it you don't see any demonstrated gap in human history which would be consistent with the flood. Instead, human history goes right through the time of the flood, as though nothing significant occurred. Is it possible that nothing significant occurred? (Press your chin down toward your chest. Now lift it up. Now press it down again... repeat 3 to 5 times)

The evidence for regional environmental change at about the same time was confirmed and extended by Mike Baillie (Queen"s University Belfast), whose tree-ring analyses of Irish bog oaks showed very significant narrowing of the rings around the year 2345 BC, associated with identified tephra from the Icelandic Hekla 4 volcano, dated to 2310 +/- 20 BC.
So you're asking us to believe that these Irish bog oaks survived under thousands of feet of water, for about 6-months, and the only thing that happened to them is that it stunted their growth a little? Do you understand photosynthesis? You appear to have no understanding - not a clue - about what would happen in such a flood.

This suggests a volcanic origin of the c. 2350 BC event identified by Courty, but the period in question is also associated with other events, including floods, the creation of new lakes and even the traditional start of Chinese history! In Baillie"s words, 2345 BC "is a classic marker date, i.e. a date which will show up on a regular basis in studies of various kinds".
Great! So you have a time when we have numerous events, and nothing even close to a global flood. But... doesn't that speak more for my point than for you?

Beastt wrote................If I see a basket lined with a red and white checkered cloth, intended for holding a packed lunch, and a few days later, I see a young female wearing a red jacket with a hood, does that make the story of "Little Red Riding Hood" true?

Gentorev........Then you stick to your fairy tale stories young fellow, while I continue to reveal that through scientific studies it has been proven that a catastrophic flood event did occur in the known civilized world at the exact biblical date of the time in which Noah lived
But that's just the point, Gentorev - what makes this silly flood story anything more than a fairytale? You're pointing at volcanic activity and trying to support a global flood. Are you aware that's a bit like pointing at a porta-potty and saying you have evidence for UFOs?

Beastt wrote.........Anyone can pick and choose from bits of evidence which might support a story and completely ignore the evidence disproving the story. That's not honest and it won't produce an accurate picture of reality.

Gentorev.........I know this. For that is exactly what the high priests of your atheist religion do.
No, it's EXACTLY what we DON'T do! In science, if there is any objective evidence which speaks contrary to a given concept, then the concept is false. That's all it takes - just one shred of evidence against. So explain blue whales to me. Explain how Noah and his family managed to grow food in salt-saturated soil. Explain why the animals didn't die in the ammonia rich atmosphere of the poorly ventilated ark. Explain how polar bears who need a very cold climate, survived in the ark along with camels and reptiles from desert and tropical regions. This whole story is so juvenile, that even a child should know that it's not true. And if you read it anywhere except the Bible, you'd accept that without question. Think about that.

Beastt wrote........ You're ignoring all of the evidence and logical arguments against the flood, injecting volcanic activity never mentioned in the Bible story, and trying to suggest that your few bits and pieces make the story credible.

Gentorev.........No mate, I"m simply ignoring all the bits and pieces of evidence chosen by your high priests, which illogical arguments do nothing to disprove the scientific studies that reveal that there was a catastrophic flood event that occurred in the time of Noah.
Why do you think it's illogical to point out that we have whales, which couldn't possibly survive a global flood, and yet there were no whales on the ark?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
YassineB
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1/1/2015 1:48:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 10:58:58 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
Of course, everything is obsolete when applied for 'Qur'anic Narartive"

- That's an unjustified generalisation.

You Islamic propagandists are firetrucking hilarious.

- This is a Religion Forum in a debate website, a religious driven argument or counter argument is not even remotely related to propaganda, I can't say the same about your non-argument based claims though.
Current Debates In Voting Period:

- The Qur'an We Have Today is Not What Muhammad Dictated Verbatim. Vs. @Envisage:
http://www.debate.org...

- Drawing Contest. Vs. @purpleduck:
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"It is perfectly permissible to vote on sources without reading them" bluesteel.
Gentorev
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1/1/2015 4:52:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Continued from post #21:

According to the "Report on Second Cambridge Conference," an article by Mark Bailey Posted December 15 1997. There were major events occurring around the world at that time, floods, Meteorite strikes, presumably causing catastrophic tsunami" etc, and the flood stories are found throughout the countries of the world.

Beastt wrote..............And many of these stories are older than the flood story in the Bible, but do not fit with the Christian beliefs.

Gentorev...........And who told you that young fellow? Perhaps it was one of the high priests of your atheist religion. But I defy you to prove that the following flood stories are older than the Hebrew account. In fact I believe that all these flood stories originated from the Hebrews, who migrated throughout the world, orally transmitting the flood account down through their descendants, which orally transmitted stories were corrupted somewhat over the thousands of years.

Many cultures from all across the globe report their religious account of a great flood or cataclysm which besieged the earth.

The Miao flood account from China, which has 8 survivors, with Noa as their head, gives the wickedness of man as the reason for the flood, and says, "These did not God's will nor returned His affection. But fought with each other defying the Godhead. Their leaders shook fists in the face of the Mighty."

Some cultures have their ancestors surviving on giant reed beds. The Greek story has them surviving in a chest, Noah has the ark, which was a great rectangular chest like floating container..

The survivors were often a single family. An Australian aboriginal account has Ngadgja, the Supreme One, who is the great Father, telling Gajara to take his wife, his sons, and his sons' wives.

The Masai account from East Africa has Tumbainot taking his two wives, his six sons, and their wives: The Masai like to double up.

A Hawaiian story has Nuu (Noah, Noa, Nuu.) taking his wife and three sons.

Noah took his wife, his three sons, and their wives.

Genesis describes Noah sending out birds to see if there was yet dry land.

In the Hopi account also, they sent out birds to find land.

An Australian aboriginal account has a cuckoo not returning because it found land.

The Masai account has Tumbainot sending out a dove, which returned because it had no place to rest.

The Masai account has four rainbows signifying that God's wrath was over.

A Hawaiian account has the god Kane leaving a rainbow as a perpetual sign of his forgiveness.

Genesis says that the rainbow would be a reminder that God would never again destroy the world "With a Flood."

Beastt wrote.........So Christianity plagiarized the story and twisted it to fit their views and religious beliefs. (Obviously, the Jews did this before the Christians).

Gentorev......... No! The account of the catastrophic flood that inundated the entire known civilized world in the days of Noah, actually originated with the Hebrews. And NO again. The Christians did not plagiarize the Hebrews flood account, they accepted it, although they did take it literally, believing it to be a world wide flood, rather than the inundation of the then known civilized world.

But all that is irrelevant, the world wide flood story was never meant to be taken literally, but is there to reveal a hidden truth to the diligent seekers of the hidden manna.

Beastt wrote..........So the world was flooded, every animal died except for those on the ark... but it didn't happen because the story - ACCORDING TO YOU - isn't intended to be taken literally.

Gentorev.........Not entirely correct young fellow! Every land dwelling animal in the known civilized world of that day, that were not taken into the ark were swept away by the flood waters, Although the Christians interpretation which sees the flood as an actual world wide catastrophic event, has some truth to it, as it has been scientifically shown that the period in question is also associated with other events that were occurring throughout the world, including Tsunamis, floods, the creation of new lakes from heavenly impacts and even the traditional start of Chinese history! In Baillie"s words, 2345 BC "is a classic marker date, i.e. a date which will show up on a regular basis in studies of various kinds".

Beastt wrote..............And this is the final escape for every Bible-believing Christian who comes to accept that the stories of the Bible are simply not true. Suddenly, it's not to be taken literally, despite the fact that only 400-years ago, the church was still executing people for announcing credible evidence which conflicted with the literal interpretation of the Bible. If the Bible isn't literal, then it's open to tens of thousands of different interpretations, with no way to find any one of them any more or less credible than the rest. That makes the Bible absolutely useless.

Gentorev..........Your little hate session with the great prostitute and her harlot daughters, who are revealed in scripture, is your business, mate I have no intention of entering into that subject in this topic.

There are those who would argue that the ark was made of Reeds, but the Hebrew word for "Reeds," can in no way be translated as Kopherwood. Genesis 6: 14; "Make yourself an ark of Gopherwood/kopherwood; make rooms in the ark, and cover it inside and out with bitumen/pitch.

Beastt wrote........Seal two beams with pitch. Now place a few hundred tons of twisting force across those beams. Watch how well the pitch maintains the seal between them. (it won't.)

Gentorev.........And you have seen the blueprint of the ark, showing the support and structural beams, which were placed in their positions by Noah and his sons? Could you please reveal those blueprints to us all, so that we may see from where you received your knowledge of the structural integrity of the ark?

To be continued.
Gentorev
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1/1/2015 5:10:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Continued from post #26.

The Hebrew letter for "K" is similar to a backward facing "C," while the Hebrew letter for "G" is also similar to a backward facing "C," with a small tail. It is easy to understand that the early scholars who translated the Hebrew to English, could mistakenly have translated, "Kopherwood" which is any wood that is covered with bitumen, as "Gopherwood."

Beast wrote.........lending no credibility to the story.

Gentorev..........So says the unbelieving atheist.

A rectangular chest-like ark built of timber logs, would of necessity, have to be sealed inside and out with bitumen to stop it from leaking, but why would you bother to seal a boat made of self floating reeds? And somehow, a reed ark with three floors just doesn"t sit right to me.

Beastt wrote..........And a rectangular vessel would be flipped by the first large waving hitting it from the side. In rough seas (which would be an automatic result of a global flood), you have to be able to keep the point of the bow driving into oncoming waves or you will invert.

Gentorev....................To begin with, a rectangular chest like floating container does not have a pointed bow. So just for your sake mate, imagine a square, have you got that? Now elongate that square and you have a rectangle, are you with me now? OK!

The Bible tells us that the length of Noah"s Ark was 300 cubits, its width 50 cubits, and its height 30 cubits. The length of a cubit was based on the distance from the elbow to the fingertips, so it varied between different ancient groups of people. Nevertheless, a Hebrew cubit was 44.5 centimetres. This means that the rectangular ark was 133.5 metres long, 22.25 metres wide and 15.5 metres high. Now then young fellow, take those dimensions of a rectangular water tight contained to a ship builder and you will discover just how sea worthy the ark was.

Do you think that the people of the pre-flood days knew that the circumference of the earth was almost 25,000 miles, or knew how many continents and islands there are on this earth? And if not, just how big do you think that their known world was?

Beastt wrote........So your argument is now that the "Word of God" is just the misconceptions of people? I'd agree with that.

Gentorev.........Then all that you are agreeing with is your own childish misconception of what has been said. The flood event that was recorded by an ancient ancestor, was seen by him to have inundated his entire known world

According to the OT, it was some 400 year after the flood that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed, and the daughters of the righteous Lot, believed that of every man in their entire world, their father was the sole survivor.

Beastt wrote..........Does that somehow lend credibility to the flood story?

Gentorev.......Yes it does. It reveals that people in those days were severely limited in their view of their known world and the population which inhabited their whole world.
bulproof
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1/1/2015 5:29:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 4:52:55 AM, Gentorev wrote:
The Masai account from East Africa has Tumbainot taking his two wives, his six sons, and their wives: The Masai like to double up.

A Hawaiian story has Nuu (Noah, Noa, Nuu.) taking his wife and three sons.

Noah took his wife, his three sons, and their wives.

Genesis describes Noah sending out birds to see if there was yet dry land.

In the Hopi account also, they sent out birds to find land.

An Australian aboriginal account has a cuckoo not returning because it found land.

The Masai account has Tumbainot sending out a dove, which returned because it had no place to rest.

The Masai account has four rainbows signifying that God's wrath was over.

A Hawaiian account has the god Kane leaving a rainbow as a perpetual sign of his forgiveness.

Genesis says that the rainbow would be a reminder that God would never again destroy the world "With a Flood."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Provide citations for these stories.
The rainbow serpent created the universe btw. You really wanna go there?
bulproof
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1/1/2015 5:32:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 5:10:33 AM, Gentorev wrote:
The Bible tells us that the length of Noah"s Ark was 300 cubits, its width 50 cubits, and its height 30 cubits. The length of a cubit was based on the distance from the elbow to the fingertips, so it varied between different ancient groups of people. Nevertheless, a Hebrew cubit was 44.5 centimetres. This means that the rectangular ark was 133.5 metres long, 22.25 metres wide and 15.5 metres high. Now then young fellow, take those dimensions of a rectangular water tight contained to a ship builder and you will discover just how sea worthy the ark was.
No you won't.
But never let reality get in the way of the story you wish to fabricate.
Take a leaf out of Lafayette's book.
LOL
Gentorev
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1/2/2015 7:33:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
, Beastt wrote..............I know you think you're Mr. Wizard and everyone who opposes you is an imbecile but it's "excerpt", not "extract". Vanilla oil is an "extract" of the vanilla bean. I don't think that's quite what you mean.

Sorry mate, It is exactly what I meant. All who have read your posts have surely come to the realisation that you are incapable of comprehending the written word, and now you prove to all that you don't even understand the English language,

From the Universal Dictionary.....EXTRACT: "To remove (a literary passage, for example) for separate consideration or publication."

Keep up the good work Beastt, you make me look soooo good.