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Calvinism is viable

bulproof
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12/31/2014 6:29:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 6:10:54 AM, Mikal wrote:
If Christianity is true, then Calvinism by default is more than likely true.

Are you proposing deistic calvinism?
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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12/31/2014 6:52:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 6:29:29 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:10:54 AM, Mikal wrote:
If Christianity is true, then Calvinism by default is more than likely true.

Are you proposing deistic calvinism?

Christian based. I don't there can be deistic Calvinism in the sense of removing the Christian God
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
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12/31/2014 6:54:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 6:52:08 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:29:29 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:10:54 AM, Mikal wrote:
If Christianity is true, then Calvinism by default is more than likely true.

Are you proposing deistic calvinism?

Christian based. I don't there can be deistic Calvinism in the sense of removing the Christian God

What does that mean?
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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12/31/2014 6:57:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 6:54:12 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:52:08 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:29:29 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:10:54 AM, Mikal wrote:
If Christianity is true, then Calvinism by default is more than likely true.

Are you proposing deistic calvinism?

Christian based. I don't there can be deistic Calvinism in the sense of removing the Christian God

What does that mean?

Meaning one has to accept Christian doctrine in order to be a Calvinist. You can't be a deist Calvinist if you are a true deist.
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
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12/31/2014 7:06:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 6:57:17 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:54:12 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:52:08 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:29:29 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:10:54 AM, Mikal wrote:
If Christianity is true, then Calvinism by default is more than likely true.

Are you proposing deistic calvinism?

Christian based. I don't there can be deistic Calvinism in the sense of removing the Christian God

What does that mean?

Meaning one has to accept Christian doctrine in order to be a Calvinist. You can't be a deist Calvinist if you are a true deist.

Oh I see now that you've explained what you wrote in ***************.
Now why would a deist have an opinion on such? A deist doesn't believe in a god or a christ and calvin is just a meaningless cleric from the middle ages.
Ooh I hope I haven't insulted you.
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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12/31/2014 7:10:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 7:06:46 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:57:17 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:54:12 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:52:08 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:29:29 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:10:54 AM, Mikal wrote:
If Christianity is true, then Calvinism by default is more than likely true.

Are you proposing deistic calvinism?

Christian based. I don't there can be deistic Calvinism in the sense of removing the Christian God

What does that mean?

Meaning one has to accept Christian doctrine in order to be a Calvinist. You can't be a deist Calvinist if you are a true deist.

Oh I see now that you've explained what you wrote in ***************.
Now why would a deist have an opinion on such? A deist doesn't believe in a god or a christ and calvin is just a meaningless cleric from the middle ages.
Ooh I hope I haven't insulted you.

That statement makes no sense

A deist believes in a God that does not insert him selves in world affairs

Calvinism is the exact opposite in most ways

What is your point?
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
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12/31/2014 7:16:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 7:10:10 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 12/31/2014 7:06:46 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:57:17 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:54:12 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:52:08 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:29:29 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:10:54 AM, Mikal wrote:
If Christianity is true, then Calvinism by default is more than likely true.

Are you proposing deistic calvinism?

Christian based. I don't there can be deistic Calvinism in the sense of removing the Christian God

What does that mean?

Meaning one has to accept Christian doctrine in order to be a Calvinist. You can't be a deist Calvinist if you are a true deist.

Oh I see now that you've explained what you wrote in ***************.
Now why would a deist have an opinion on such? A deist doesn't believe in a god or a christ and calvin is just a meaningless cleric from the middle ages.
Ooh I hope I haven't insulted you.

That statement makes no sense

A deist believes in a God that does not insert him selves in world affairs

Calvinism is the exact opposite in most ways

What is your point?

You claim, unsurprisingly, that contradictory religious principals are believable.
I hope I didn't insult you.
TrueScotsman
Posts: 515
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12/31/2014 7:22:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 6:10:54 AM, Mikal wrote:
If Christianity is true, then Calvinism by default is more than likely true.

Why would a theology first introduced with Augustine of Hippo likely be true?
TrueScotsman
Posts: 515
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12/31/2014 7:28:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 6:52:08 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:29:29 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:10:54 AM, Mikal wrote:
If Christianity is true, then Calvinism by default is more than likely true.

Are you proposing deistic calvinism?

Christian based. I don't there can be deistic Calvinism in the sense of removing the Christian God

Calvinism is the exact opposite of Deism, in that he has to control every single little thing and predetermine all events according to his will.
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
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12/31/2014 8:19:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 7:10:10 AM, Mikal wrote:
A deist believes in a God that does not insert him selves in world affairs

Calvinism is the exact opposite in most ways

Precisely what I said and you seemed terribly confused about.
I do hope you weren't insulted.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/31/2014 8:41:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 6:10:54 AM, Mikal wrote:
If Christianity is true, then Calvinism by default is more than likely true.

Of course Christianity and Calvinism are true because they exist in this world. However, all religions come from God's plan called the beast that began as soon as God had certain people gaze into the stars after the flood and connect them with imaginary lines to get building shapes. For each building that God taught them to build out of earthen materials, He taught them languages to go along with each building such as the languages to design them, build them, maintain them and all the stories that go along with living around them.

All religions, languages, governments, sciences, mathematics, etc., came from building things and observing the illusions that God formed for man to make up this universe. The first false gods ( buildings ) were built by the Babylonians, which became known as the Babylonian Empire. Many religious ideas came forth from the minds of men during this first world empire which Christians call pagan ideas. Christians don't know that Christianity was built using a few of these old Babylonian ideas mixed with ideas of the next three empires known as the Persian-Medes, Greek and Roman empires.

Christianity, which includes the Roman Catholic Church, Vatican and all the Protestant churches that were started by men named Calvin, Luther, Zwingli, etc. is nothing but a pagan religion that contains a mix of ideas that came from God's saints, prophets and many pagan ideas and traditions. This means that NO religion contains the true original documents of the prophets and saints, even though the Catholic church and Protestant churches believe the Bible is the Word of God. The Bible is a mix of religious ideas, traditions and ideas that they stole from the original writings and spoken words of God's prophets and saints. They didn't obey God's commandment that says, "Thou shalt not steal".

By starting a post like this means that you have no knowledge of God to understand that there isn't any difference between the religions of the world that all use languages to describe the observable world, particularly the stars where men got all his building ideas. That's why most religious people will point to the sky when talking about their gods.

We saints are taught directly by our Creator that we were created in an invisible realm which we know today as invisible vibrations ( energy ). This is called many things in the Bible such as Christ, Kingdom of God, Son of God, Kingdom of Heaven, Spirit of God, Jacob, Zion, Breath of Life, Tree of Life, etc.

If you don't believe the knowledge I share in this forum, you weren't meant to believe it. God planned to use certain chosen believers to listen to the knowledge I share during my time here in this world. There are very few chosen prophets, saints and believers out of all God's people but it's only meant for the purpose to teach us who we are ( invisible vibrations that are formed into visible illusions called flesh ).
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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12/31/2014 11:15:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 7:16:45 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/31/2014 7:10:10 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 12/31/2014 7:06:46 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:57:17 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:54:12 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:52:08 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:29:29 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:10:54 AM, Mikal wrote:
If Christianity is true, then Calvinism by default is more than likely true.

Are you proposing deistic calvinism?

Christian based. I don't there can be deistic Calvinism in the sense of removing the Christian God

What does that mean?

Meaning one has to accept Christian doctrine in order to be a Calvinist. You can't be a deist Calvinist if you are a true deist.

Oh I see now that you've explained what you wrote in ***************.
Now why would a deist have an opinion on such? A deist doesn't believe in a god or a christ and calvin is just a meaningless cleric from the middle ages.
Ooh I hope I haven't insulted you.

That statement makes no sense

A deist believes in a God that does not insert him selves in world affairs

Calvinism is the exact opposite in most ways

What is your point?

You claim, unsurprisingly, that contradictory religious principals are believable.
I hope I didn't insult you.

You are saying Christianity and Calvinism are believable. Please explain how because that is false
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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12/31/2014 11:16:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 7:22:48 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:10:54 AM, Mikal wrote:
If Christianity is true, then Calvinism by default is more than likely true.

Why would a theology first introduced with Augustine of Hippo likely be true?

because it's supported by scripture in both post modern, and pre modern translated bibles.
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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12/31/2014 11:16:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 7:28:11 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:52:08 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:29:29 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:10:54 AM, Mikal wrote:
If Christianity is true, then Calvinism by default is more than likely true.

Are you proposing deistic calvinism?

Christian based. I don't there can be deistic Calvinism in the sense of removing the Christian God

Calvinism is the exact opposite of Deism, in that he has to control every single little thing and predetermine all events according to his will.

I stated that
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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12/31/2014 11:18:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 8:19:12 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/31/2014 7:10:10 AM, Mikal wrote:
A deist believes in a God that does not insert him selves in world affairs

Calvinism is the exact opposite in most ways

Precisely what I said and you seemed terribly confused about.
I do hope you weren't insulted.

That makes no sense

I said if Christianity is true, the Calvinism is more than likely true

You are asserting that Christianity = Deism if you are trying to attack the OP. That is invalid
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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12/31/2014 11:18:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 8:41:29 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:10:54 AM, Mikal wrote:
If Christianity is true, then Calvinism by default is more than likely true.

Of course Christianity and Calvinism are true because they exist in this world. However, all religions come from God's plan called the beast that began as soon as God had certain people gaze into the stars after the flood and connect them with imaginary lines to get building shapes. For each building that God taught them to build out of earthen materials, He taught them languages to go along with each building such as the languages to design them, build them, maintain them and all the stories that go along with living around them.

All religions, languages, governments, sciences, mathematics, etc., came from building things and observing the illusions that God formed for man to make up this universe. The first false gods ( buildings ) were built by the Babylonians, which became known as the Babylonian Empire. Many religious ideas came forth from the minds of men during this first world empire which Christians call pagan ideas. Christians don't know that Christianity was built using a few of these old Babylonian ideas mixed with ideas of the next three empires known as the Persian-Medes, Greek and Roman empires.

Christianity, which includes the Roman Catholic Church, Vatican and all the Protestant churches that were started by men named Calvin, Luther, Zwingli, etc. is nothing but a pagan religion that contains a mix of ideas that came from God's saints, prophets and many pagan ideas and traditions. This means that NO religion contains the true original documents of the prophets and saints, even though the Catholic church and Protestant churches believe the Bible is the Word of God. The Bible is a mix of religious ideas, traditions and ideas that they stole from the original writings and spoken words of God's prophets and saints. They didn't obey God's commandment that says, "Thou shalt not steal".

By starting a post like this means that you have no knowledge of God to understand that there isn't any difference between the religions of the world that all use languages to describe the observable world, particularly the stars where men got all his building ideas. That's why most religious people will point to the sky when talking about their gods.

We saints are taught directly by our Creator that we were created in an invisible realm which we know today as invisible vibrations ( energy ). This is called many things in the Bible such as Christ, Kingdom of God, Son of God, Kingdom of Heaven, Spirit of God, Jacob, Zion, Breath of Life, Tree of Life, etc.

If you don't believe the knowledge I share in this forum, you weren't meant to believe it. God planned to use certain chosen believers to listen to the knowledge I share during my time here in this world. There are very few chosen prophets, saints and believers out of all God's people but it's only meant for the purpose to teach us who we are ( invisible vibrations that are formed into visible illusions called flesh ).

my friend I always enjoy reading your posts :)
TrueScotsman
Posts: 515
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12/31/2014 11:32:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 11:16:31 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 12/31/2014 7:22:48 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:10:54 AM, Mikal wrote:
If Christianity is true, then Calvinism by default is more than likely true.

Why would a theology first introduced with Augustine of Hippo likely be true?

because it's supported by scripture in both post modern, and pre modern translated bibles.

This would be a good discussion to have, I actually once was a Calvinist and know it very well. I would agree that some modern translations support a Calvinistic interpretation, such as the English Standard Version which was produced by Calvinist scholars.

Would you be interested in discussing particular texts and whether or not they support Calvinism?
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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12/31/2014 12:00:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 11:32:01 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 12/31/2014 11:16:31 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 12/31/2014 7:22:48 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:10:54 AM, Mikal wrote:
If Christianity is true, then Calvinism by default is more than likely true.

Why would a theology first introduced with Augustine of Hippo likely be true?

because it's supported by scripture in both post modern, and pre modern translated bibles.

This would be a good discussion to have, I actually once was a Calvinist and know it very well. I would agree that some modern translations support a Calvinistic interpretation, such as the English Standard Version which was produced by Calvinist scholars.

Would you be interested in discussing particular texts and whether or not they support Calvinism?

I could do a debate on it if you want or in here. I agree that modern translations support it but when even breaking down linguistics from older texts, I feel it supports it as well, if not more.

Most of the modern translations are flawed as is. Especially the KJV
TrueScotsman
Posts: 515
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12/31/2014 12:10:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 12:00:01 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 12/31/2014 11:32:01 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 12/31/2014 11:16:31 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 12/31/2014 7:22:48 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:10:54 AM, Mikal wrote:
If Christianity is true, then Calvinism by default is more than likely true.

Why would a theology first introduced with Augustine of Hippo likely be true?

because it's supported by scripture in both post modern, and pre modern translated bibles.

This would be a good discussion to have, I actually once was a Calvinist and know it very well. I would agree that some modern translations support a Calvinistic interpretation, such as the English Standard Version which was produced by Calvinist scholars.

Would you be interested in discussing particular texts and whether or not they support Calvinism?

I could do a debate on it if you want or in here. I agree that modern translations support it but when even breaking down linguistics from older texts, I feel it supports it as well, if not more.

Most of the modern translations are flawed as is. Especially the KJV

To some degree modern translations support it, and a translation can't necessarily be perfect in that they have to make judgments and interpretations in order to render the text. For instance, the Genitive Case is very open to interpretation and you can easily read a text that has an Objective Genitive vs Subjective Genitive Case. One such example is the issue of whether or not the text should be translated "Faith in Jesus Christ" or "the faithfulness of Jesus Christ."

The King James Version is based partly on the Latin Vulgate and also has older English words that are not commonly used today, such as Unicorn from the Latin Unicornis (means rhinoceros at that time ). I definitely don't use the KJV, very flawed.

I think a discussion on here would be best, I am educated in Koine Greek and know this subject very well. Don't think it would be fair to have a debate on it, would rather it be more educational and discussion based.
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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12/31/2014 12:12:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 12:10:56 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 12/31/2014 12:00:01 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 12/31/2014 11:32:01 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 12/31/2014 11:16:31 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 12/31/2014 7:22:48 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:10:54 AM, Mikal wrote:
If Christianity is true, then Calvinism by default is more than likely true.

Why would a theology first introduced with Augustine of Hippo likely be true?

because it's supported by scripture in both post modern, and pre modern translated bibles.

This would be a good discussion to have, I actually once was a Calvinist and know it very well. I would agree that some modern translations support a Calvinistic interpretation, such as the English Standard Version which was produced by Calvinist scholars.

Would you be interested in discussing particular texts and whether or not they support Calvinism?

I could do a debate on it if you want or in here. I agree that modern translations support it but when even breaking down linguistics from older texts, I feel it supports it as well, if not more.

Most of the modern translations are flawed as is. Especially the KJV

To some degree modern translations support it, and a translation can't necessarily be perfect in that they have to make judgments and interpretations in order to render the text. For instance, the Genitive Case is very open to interpretation and you can easily read a text that has an Objective Genitive vs Subjective Genitive Case. One such example is the issue of whether or not the text should be translated "Faith in Jesus Christ" or "the faithfulness of Jesus Christ."

The King James Version is based partly on the Latin Vulgate and also has older English words that are not commonly used today, such as Unicorn from the Latin Unicornis (means rhinoceros at that time ). I definitely don't use the KJV, very flawed.

I think a discussion on here would be best, I am educated in Koine Greek and know this subject very well. Don't think it would be fair to have a debate on it, would rather it be more educational and discussion based.

Thats fine :)

you can post your points and i'll respond when I get home tonight

I check this whenever i get the chance during the day but generally the only time i can write something lengthy is at lunch

(which was just dedicated to a 3 page rfd for a climate debate lol)
TrueScotsman
Posts: 515
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12/31/2014 12:14:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 12:12:32 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 12/31/2014 12:10:56 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 12/31/2014 12:00:01 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 12/31/2014 11:32:01 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 12/31/2014 11:16:31 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 12/31/2014 7:22:48 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:10:54 AM, Mikal wrote:
If Christianity is true, then Calvinism by default is more than likely true.

Why would a theology first introduced with Augustine of Hippo likely be true?

because it's supported by scripture in both post modern, and pre modern translated bibles.

This would be a good discussion to have, I actually once was a Calvinist and know it very well. I would agree that some modern translations support a Calvinistic interpretation, such as the English Standard Version which was produced by Calvinist scholars.

Would you be interested in discussing particular texts and whether or not they support Calvinism?

I could do a debate on it if you want or in here. I agree that modern translations support it but when even breaking down linguistics from older texts, I feel it supports it as well, if not more.

Most of the modern translations are flawed as is. Especially the KJV

To some degree modern translations support it, and a translation can't necessarily be perfect in that they have to make judgments and interpretations in order to render the text. For instance, the Genitive Case is very open to interpretation and you can easily read a text that has an Objective Genitive vs Subjective Genitive Case. One such example is the issue of whether or not the text should be translated "Faith in Jesus Christ" or "the faithfulness of Jesus Christ."

The King James Version is based partly on the Latin Vulgate and also has older English words that are not commonly used today, such as Unicorn from the Latin Unicornis (means rhinoceros at that time ). I definitely don't use the KJV, very flawed.

I think a discussion on here would be best, I am educated in Koine Greek and know this subject very well. Don't think it would be fair to have a debate on it, would rather it be more educational and discussion based.

Thats fine :)

you can post your points and i'll respond when I get home tonight

I check this whenever i get the chance during the day but generally the only time i can write something lengthy is at lunch

(which was just dedicated to a 3 page rfd for a climate debate lol)

Sounds good, I will respond in a little bit. Perhaps talk about about one of the texts commonly used to support Calvinism and show where the issues lie.

Hopefully you're supporting Anthropogenic Climate Change. haha :)
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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12/31/2014 12:15:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 12:14:15 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 12/31/2014 12:12:32 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 12/31/2014 12:10:56 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 12/31/2014 12:00:01 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 12/31/2014 11:32:01 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 12/31/2014 11:16:31 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 12/31/2014 7:22:48 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:10:54 AM, Mikal wrote:
If Christianity is true, then Calvinism by default is more than likely true.

Why would a theology first introduced with Augustine of Hippo likely be true?

because it's supported by scripture in both post modern, and pre modern translated bibles.

This would be a good discussion to have, I actually once was a Calvinist and know it very well. I would agree that some modern translations support a Calvinistic interpretation, such as the English Standard Version which was produced by Calvinist scholars.

Would you be interested in discussing particular texts and whether or not they support Calvinism?

I could do a debate on it if you want or in here. I agree that modern translations support it but when even breaking down linguistics from older texts, I feel it supports it as well, if not more.

Most of the modern translations are flawed as is. Especially the KJV

To some degree modern translations support it, and a translation can't necessarily be perfect in that they have to make judgments and interpretations in order to render the text. For instance, the Genitive Case is very open to interpretation and you can easily read a text that has an Objective Genitive vs Subjective Genitive Case. One such example is the issue of whether or not the text should be translated "Faith in Jesus Christ" or "the faithfulness of Jesus Christ."

The King James Version is based partly on the Latin Vulgate and also has older English words that are not commonly used today, such as Unicorn from the Latin Unicornis (means rhinoceros at that time ). I definitely don't use the KJV, very flawed.

I think a discussion on here would be best, I am educated in Koine Greek and know this subject very well. Don't think it would be fair to have a debate on it, would rather it be more educational and discussion based.

Thats fine :)

you can post your points and i'll respond when I get home tonight

I check this whenever i get the chance during the day but generally the only time i can write something lengthy is at lunch

(which was just dedicated to a 3 page rfd for a climate debate lol)

Sounds good, I will respond in a little bit. Perhaps talk about about one of the texts commonly used to support Calvinism and show where the issues lie.

Hopefully you're supporting Anthropogenic Climate Change. haha :)

Im pro on AGW, it was strongly solidified after that debate as well. Was a really good read
PetersSmith
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12/31/2014 12:26:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 6:10:54 AM, Mikal wrote:
If Christianity is true, then Calvinism by default is more than likely true.

You know the Westboro Baptist Church is a Calvinist church, right?
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Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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12/31/2014 12:29:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 12:26:25 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:10:54 AM, Mikal wrote:
If Christianity is true, then Calvinism by default is more than likely true.

You know the Westboro Baptist Church is a Calvinist church, right?

They are also lawyers that do that to try to provoke attacks so they can press legal action lol
TrueScotsman
Posts: 515
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12/31/2014 1:22:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 12:26:25 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 12/31/2014 6:10:54 AM, Mikal wrote:
If Christianity is true, then Calvinism by default is more than likely true.

You know the Westboro Baptist Church is a Calvinist church, right?

They are Hyper-Calvinists, they have some similarities to normal Calvinists, but they are actually quite different.
TrueScotsman
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12/31/2014 2:15:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Okay Mikal, let's dive in a little bit.

One popular text used to support Calvinism can be found in Ephesians chapter 1.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
Ephesians 1:3-5 (NASB)

The key words here are "chosen" and "predestined" which definitely bring up the issue of election and predestination. However, it is important to understand what exactly Paul is talking about here. Is he talking about the individual election and predestination of believers, or something else?

I will contend that Paul is referring to throughout the entirety of Ephesians Chapter 1-3 the issue of the inclusion of the Gentiles.

This isn't as explicit in the first chapter as it is in chapters 2 and 3, so I will show you there and then demonstrate what chapter 1 means in this light.

Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called "Uncircumcision" by the so-called "Circumcision," which is performed in the flesh by human hands" remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity. Ephesians 2:11-16 (NASB)

In this passage, he ties together his main idea more explicitly in a way that wasn't as clear before. We know that this is connected to the previous section of Ephesians 1-2:1-10 by the use of "therefore," which brings us to his main idea. That in the Messiah, Jews and Gentiles alike share in the Covenant blessings and promised inheritance. That Christ took away the law and destroyed the division that stood between Jews and Gentiles so that there would be one people in the Messiah (Christ means Messiah or anointed one).

Looking back to Ephesians 1, we now see this in a different light, that Paul is proclaiming the blessings that the Gentile Christians now share in, in the Messiah. And most importantly, it is revealed that their inclusion, God choosing them and predestining that he would have a family through the Messiah was always apart of his plan. This isn't about the individual election of believers, but the corporate election of a people comprised of both Jews and Gentiles in the Messiah.

Paul sums up his point made in Ephesians 1-2 in Ephesians 3.

By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel
Ephesians 3:4-6 (NASB)

That Gentiles share in the same Covenant blessings promised to the Jewish people in the Messiah through the gospel. This is Paul's major theme throughout his writing is how God has made and chosen one people, and they are those who are in the Messiah Jesus. This means that Jews and Gentiles alike who have faith in Jesus share in the Covenant blessings, and that it is not by birth, lineage or obedience to the Mosaic Law.

Calvinists misread Paul, by disregarding this important theme of the inclusion of the Gentile peoples, and by ignoring that read themselves into the text.

Hope this gets the discussion going.

Best Regards,
TrueScotsman
DanneJeRusse
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12/31/2014 2:25:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 6:10:54 AM, Mikal wrote:
If Christianity is true, then Calvinism by default is more than likely true.

Calvinists would probably agree with you. I'm just not sure the other many thousands of denominations of Christianity would agree, as well.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Mikal
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12/31/2014 2:29:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 2:15:45 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:
Okay Mikal, let's dive in a little bit.

One popular text used to support Calvinism can be found in Ephesians chapter 1.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
Ephesians 1:3-5 (NASB)

The key words here are "chosen" and "predestined" which definitely bring up the issue of election and predestination. However, it is important to understand what exactly Paul is talking about here. Is he talking about the individual election and predestination of believers, or something else?

I will contend that Paul is referring to throughout the entirety of Ephesians Chapter 1-3 the issue of the inclusion of the Gentiles.

This isn't as explicit in the first chapter as it is in chapters 2 and 3, so I will show you there and then demonstrate what chapter 1 means in this light.

Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called "Uncircumcision" by the so-called "Circumcision," which is performed in the flesh by human hands" remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity. Ephesians 2:11-16 (NASB)

In this passage, he ties together his main idea more explicitly in a way that wasn't as clear before. We know that this is connected to the previous section of Ephesians 1-2:1-10 by the use of "therefore," which brings us to his main idea. That in the Messiah, Jews and Gentiles alike share in the Covenant blessings and promised inheritance. That Christ took away the law and destroyed the division that stood between Jews and Gentiles so that there would be one people in the Messiah (Christ means Messiah or anointed one).

Looking back to Ephesians 1, we now see this in a different light, that Paul is proclaiming the blessings that the Gentile Christians now share in, in the Messiah. And most importantly, it is revealed that their inclusion, God choosing them and predestining that he would have a family through the Messiah was always apart of his plan. This isn't about the individual election of believers, but the corporate election of a people comprised of both Jews and Gentiles in the Messiah.

Paul sums up his point made in Ephesians 1-2 in Ephesians 3.

By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel
Ephesians 3:4-6 (NASB)

That Gentiles share in the same Covenant blessings promised to the Jewish people in the Messiah through the gospel. This is Paul's major theme throughout his writing is how God has made and chosen one people, and they are those who are in the Messiah Jesus. This means that Jews and Gentiles alike who have faith in Jesus share in the Covenant blessings, and that it is not by birth, lineage or obedience to the Mosaic Law.

Calvinists misread Paul, by disregarding this important theme of the inclusion of the Gentile peoples, and by ignoring that read themselves into the text.

Hope this gets the discussion going.

Best Regards,
TrueScotsman

ill hop on this when i get back tonight :)
TrueScotsman
Posts: 515
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12/31/2014 2:32:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 2:29:52 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 12/31/2014 2:15:45 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:
Okay Mikal, let's dive in a little bit.

One popular text used to support Calvinism can be found in Ephesians chapter 1.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
Ephesians 1:3-5 (NASB)

The key words here are "chosen" and "predestined" which definitely bring up the issue of election and predestination. However, it is important to understand what exactly Paul is talking about here. Is he talking about the individual election and predestination of believers, or something else?

I will contend that Paul is referring to throughout the entirety of Ephesians Chapter 1-3 the issue of the inclusion of the Gentiles.

This isn't as explicit in the first chapter as it is in chapters 2 and 3, so I will show you there and then demonstrate what chapter 1 means in this light.

Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called "Uncircumcision" by the so-called "Circumcision," which is performed in the flesh by human hands" remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity. Ephesians 2:11-16 (NASB)

In this passage, he ties together his main idea more explicitly in a way that wasn't as clear before. We know that this is connected to the previous section of Ephesians 1-2:1-10 by the use of "therefore," which brings us to his main idea. That in the Messiah, Jews and Gentiles alike share in the Covenant blessings and promised inheritance. That Christ took away the law and destroyed the division that stood between Jews and Gentiles so that there would be one people in the Messiah (Christ means Messiah or anointed one).

Looking back to Ephesians 1, we now see this in a different light, that Paul is proclaiming the blessings that the Gentile Christians now share in, in the Messiah. And most importantly, it is revealed that their inclusion, God choosing them and predestining that he would have a family through the Messiah was always apart of his plan. This isn't about the individual election of believers, but the corporate election of a people comprised of both Jews and Gentiles in the Messiah.

Paul sums up his point made in Ephesians 1-2 in Ephesians 3.

By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel
Ephesians 3:4-6 (NASB)

That Gentiles share in the same Covenant blessings promised to the Jewish people in the Messiah through the gospel. This is Paul's major theme throughout his writing is how God has made and chosen one people, and they are those who are in the Messiah Jesus. This means that Jews and Gentiles alike who have faith in Jesus share in the Covenant blessings, and that it is not by birth, lineage or obedience to the Mosaic Law.

Calvinists misread Paul, by disregarding this important theme of the inclusion of the Gentile peoples, and by ignoring that read themselves into the text.

Hope this gets the discussion going.

Best Regards,
TrueScotsman

ill hop on this when i get back tonight :)

Sounds good, it's a bit to chew on. I might be a bit delayed in responding due to the Holiday, going up into the mountains tomorrow.