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Christianity and Mythology

wsmunit7
Posts: 1,318
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12/31/2014 2:00:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
http://en.m.wikipedia.org...

Christianity borrows heavily from mythology. The very basis of Christianity, Jesus, a mortal man with a god father is very, very common in mythologies predating Christianity by hundreds and thousands of years: the Greeks, the Romans, the Hindu, the Egyptian the Chinese.

I can think of several other "borrowings." Unless I am mistaken (and I will be researching it) the ceremonial canabilism of drinking blood and eating flesh is an age old pagan ritual.

Anyone know of others?
SirCrona
Posts: 139
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12/31/2014 6:17:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The flood myth is an exact rip of a Mesopotan myth. Virgin birth is the method of choice for demigod genesis in Hellenistic mythology. The book of Lilith was originally a Canaanite fairy story before Judaism existed.

Also, Pagans dont eat people religiously.
wsmunit7
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12/31/2014 6:22:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 6:17:38 PM, SirCrona wrote:
The flood myth is an exact rip of a Mesopotan myth. Virgin birth is the method of choice for demigod genesis in Hellenistic mythology. The book of Lilith was originally a Canaanite fairy story before Judaism existed.

Also, Pagans dont eat people religiously.

Not religiously, ceremonially.
IEnglishman
Posts: 148
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12/31/2014 6:49:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 2:00:15 PM, wsmunit7 wrote:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org...

Are you using wikipedia as a source when discussing a serious historical area of study? Wow.

Christianity borrows heavily from mythology.

That depends on if you consider it's base, the Jewish Bible and religion to be mythological.

The very basis of Christianity, Jesus, a mortal man with a god father is very, very common in mythologies predating Christianity by hundreds and thousands of years: the Greeks, the Romans, the Hindu, the Egyptian the Chinese.

None of whom have any connection with the Jewish milieu in which the figure of Jesus is presented in the New Testament.


I can think of several other "borrowings." Unless I am mistaken (and I will be researching it) the ceremonial canabilism of drinking blood and eating flesh is an age old pagan ritual.

Doubtful. Most pagans did not practice cannibalism. These are later editions to the historical record promulgated by their religious enemies in order to stop people from practicing Paganism.

Anyone know of others?

None of your ones influenced Christianity at all, you've presented no evidence they have which would be taken seriously by anyone studying the ancient history you're saying is mythological.
Bulproof admits he's a troll http://www.debate.org... (see post 16). Do not feed.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/31/2014 7:22:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 2:00:15 PM, wsmunit7 wrote:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org...

Christianity borrows heavily from mythology. The very basis of Christianity, Jesus, a mortal man with a god father is very, very common in mythologies predating Christianity by hundreds and thousands of years: the Greeks, the Romans, the Hindu, the Egyptian the Chinese.

I can think of several other "borrowings." Unless I am mistaken (and I will be researching it) the ceremonial canabilism of drinking blood and eating flesh is an age old pagan ritual.

Anyone know of others?

Apostate Christianity did yes, but the real thing didn;t borrow from ay mythologies or other faiths.

That is not a very accurate description of Jesus, becauase all of teh otehrs came about when teh God's had relations with mortals.

Mary's conception was immacculate in every sense.

Jesus was fully mortal until he presented himnself for baptism, and holy spirit decended on him, implaning in him the spirit, personality and memories of God heavenly son.

Very different indeed to any mythology. Jesus was not literally God's son until that moment.

I know the Apostate churches teach differently, but scripture teaches precisely what I have just described.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/31/2014 7:36:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 6:17:38 PM, SirCrona wrote:
The flood myth is an exact rip of a Mesopotan myth. Virgin birth is the method of choice for demigod genesis in Hellenistic mythology. The book of Lilith was originally a Canaanite fairy story before Judaism existed.

Also, Pagans dont eat people religiously.

Actually it is the otehr way rouind.

The Mesopotamian myth came from teh true sdtory of the follod passed down by Noah's decendants and getting distorte3d along the way. Chinese whispers and all that.

Simply being the oldest copy of the story found does nto make it the origianl, it simply shows that whilst the Mesopotamians were still carving in stone, the Hebrews were using more preishable writing mediums which did not survive until Moses, under inspiration collected them together as part of the Holy Torah.

Like all who oppose God you rely too much on unprovable assumptions.

There were no other humans on the earth after the flood.

Even the idea of virgin birth predates the Greeks, since a virgn birth first occurred as a sign to Ahaz.

Isaiah 7:13-16
ASV(i) 13 And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David: Is it a small thing for you to weary men, that ye will weary my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. 15 Butter and honey shall he eat, when he knoweth to refuse the evil, and choose the good. 16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land whose two kings thou abhorrest shall be forsaken.

For that to have been a sign for Ahaz it must have happened.

So Jesus was not the first, but he could only have come about as a virgin birth.

Apparently Greece did not exist until the 3rd century BC, however Isaiah's day was some 400 years earlier, therefore the first and only other true virgin birth predates all Hellenistic myths by centuries.

True most Apostate churches try to deny that virgin birth but it is there in the scriptural record for all to see so to deny it is to deny scripture. Hence, since I believ all scripture, I believe that account.

Matthew even refers to it as aprophecy of jesus, as well as a sign for Ahaz, it certainly foreshadowed Jesus birth.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/31/2014 7:43:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 6:17:38 PM, SirCrona wrote:
The flood myth is an exact rip of a Mesopotan myth. Virgin birth is the method of choice for demigod genesis in Hellenistic mythology. The book of Lilith was originally a Canaanite fairy story before Judaism existed.

Also, Pagans dont eat people religiously.

Lilith is not a scriptural book, and the name does nto appear anywhere in scripture. She is a Jewish, possibly a Hebrew myth.

However, when you stop to think that Judaism didn't emerge until after the dissolution of Israel long before Christ that still limits the age of Judaoism dramatically.

Judaism was and is a corruption of the original Hebrew faith, not all who were Jews by birth, being born into the tribe of Judah, followed the corruptted teachings of Judaism but tried to adhere as far as they could to the orignal. It was those that Jesus becamse the Christ to gather to his father's side once more.
MadCornishBiker
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12/31/2014 7:52:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 6:49:28 PM, IEnglishman wrote:
At 12/31/2014 2:00:15 PM, wsmunit7 wrote:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org...

Are you using wikipedia as a source when discussing a serious historical area of study? Wow.

Christianity borrows heavily from mythology.

That depends on if you consider it's base, the Jewish Bible and religion to be mythological.

Not the Jewish Bible and religion, the Hebrew Bible and religio9n. There is a very important distinction between the two. The bible may be the same, but teh religion is not. Judaism was an Apostasy from the Hebrew religion.


The very basis of Christianity, Jesus, a mortal man with a god father is very, very common in mythologies predating Christianity by hundreds and thousands of years: the Greeks, the Romans, the Hindu, the Egyptian the Chinese.

None of whom have any connection with the Jewish milieu in which the figure of Jesus is presented in the New Testament.


I can think of several other "borrowings." Unless I am mistaken (and I will be researching it) the ceremonial canabilism of drinking blood and eating flesh is an age old pagan ritual.

Yes, but it is not a Christian ritual. As Jesus made clear at the "Last supper" the bread and wine were simply symbols, not to be mistaken for his literal flesh and blood. Also it was only intended as an annual reminder of Christ's sacrficial death and what it meant for us.

It onyl became a daily, and cannibalistic, ritual under the Roman Catholics, who did much to corrupt Christianity .

True Christian teachings have onyl in this time of teh end started to resurface in our time of dire need.


Doubtful. Most pagans did not practice cannibalism. These are later editions to the historical record promulgated by their religious enemies in order to stop people from practicing Paganism.

Anyone know of others?

None of your ones influenced Christianity at all, you've presented no evidence they have which would be taken seriously by anyone studying the ancient history you're saying is mythological.

Unfortunately, after the 1st century Christianity became very heavily influenced by pagan teachings, the Trinity being the first to be introduced in the 4th century (though it had been preceded by a completely unscriptural idea of teh fuality of God and Christ.

In scripture God's heavenly son, who came to earth to occupy the flesh of Jesus at his baptism, was God first and only solo creation. He is described as such in several places despite the attempts of Apostate Christians to twist scripture to prove different.
Emilrose
Posts: 2,479
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1/1/2015 4:10:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 2:00:15 PM, wsmunit7 wrote:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org...

Christianity borrows heavily from mythology. The very basis of Christianity, Jesus, a mortal man with a god father is very, very common in mythologies predating Christianity by hundreds and thousands of years: the Greeks, the Romans, the Hindu, the Egyptian the Chinese.

I can think of several other "borrowings." Unless I am mistaken (and I will be researching it) the ceremonial canabilism of drinking blood and eating flesh is an age old pagan ritual.

Anyone know of others?

Hmm, I'd need to look further into any Greek/Roman connection to early Judaic Christianity. Certainly when the religion was adopted by Rome (example, when it became "Christianity") a huge amount of paganism was introduced. The original followers of Jesus were in fact just Jews who believed that he was the Messiah, after gentile conversion new Greek and Roman ideas were established within the belief system and it thus formulated into an entirely different religion.

As for a connection to Chinese/Hindu beliefs, that one is maybe less conceivable. Those in ancient Israel probably wouldn't been aware of any such ideas. Moreover, they certainly wouldn't have been taught about them. The drinking of blood and eating of flesh is a non-literal one, I think its meaning is more along the lines of acceptance.

Anything relating to blood or literal consumption of it is explicitly outlawed in the Torah.
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Commentator on Hillary Clinton: 'If Clinton is now what passes for progressive, maybe this country deserves Trump.'

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bulproof
Posts: 25,296
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1/1/2015 4:35:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 7:52:46 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
In scripture God's heavenly son, who came to earth to occupy the flesh of Jesus at his baptism,
And as usual this is not ever mentioned in the bible.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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1/1/2015 4:41:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/31/2014 2:00:15 PM, wsmunit7 wrote:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org...

Christianity borrows heavily from mythology. The very basis of Christianity, Jesus, a mortal man with a god father is very, very common in mythologies predating Christianity by hundreds and thousands of years: the Greeks, the Romans, the Hindu, the Egyptian the Chinese.

I can think of several other "borrowings." Unless I am mistaken (and I will be researching it) the ceremonial canabilism of drinking blood and eating flesh is an age old pagan ritual.

Anyone know of others?

The idea of one person dying to gain the salvation of many others comes from the ancient belief in Dionysus and is referred to as "phamakos" in Greek. A person was selected to represent the sins of the population of a city, he was dressed in fine clothing, given the best of food, and at the time of the ceremony, was put to death. Other Dionysus mythology suggests that the god Dionysus turned water into wine at a wedding, all centuries before the dawn of Christianity.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
IEnglishman
Posts: 148
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1/1/2015 5:00:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 4:41:29 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 12/31/2014 2:00:15 PM, wsmunit7 wrote:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org...

Christianity borrows heavily from mythology. The very basis of Christianity, Jesus, a mortal man with a god father is very, very common in mythologies predating Christianity by hundreds and thousands of years: the Greeks, the Romans, the Hindu, the Egyptian the Chinese.

I can think of several other "borrowings." Unless I am mistaken (and I will be researching it) the ceremonial canabilism of drinking blood and eating flesh is an age old pagan ritual.

Anyone know of others?

Other Dionysus mythology suggests that the god Dionysus turned water into wine at a wedding, all centuries before the dawn of Christianity.

What an astonishing coincidence! This is inexplicable without Jesus of Nazareth being mythological! It's not like Dinoysus was the Greek God of wine or something!
Bulproof admits he's a troll http://www.debate.org... (see post 16). Do not feed.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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1/1/2015 5:05:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 5:00:45 AM, IEnglishman wrote:
At 1/1/2015 4:41:29 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 12/31/2014 2:00:15 PM, wsmunit7 wrote:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org...

Christianity borrows heavily from mythology. The very basis of Christianity, Jesus, a mortal man with a god father is very, very common in mythologies predating Christianity by hundreds and thousands of years: the Greeks, the Romans, the Hindu, the Egyptian the Chinese.

I can think of several other "borrowings." Unless I am mistaken (and I will be researching it) the ceremonial canabilism of drinking blood and eating flesh is an age old pagan ritual.

Anyone know of others?

Other Dionysus mythology suggests that the god Dionysus turned water into wine at a wedding, all centuries before the dawn of Christianity.

What an astonishing coincidence! This is inexplicable without Jesus of Nazareth being mythological! It's not like Dinoysus was the Greek God of wine or something!

It's simply one more parallel suggesting that Jesus is a myth constructed from portions of other myths. You seem to think this is somehow changed by the fact that Dionysus was the god of wine. Can you explain how that changes the fact that the miracles of Jesus tend to be taken from older religions?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
IEnglishman
Posts: 148
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1/1/2015 5:10:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 5:05:37 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 1/1/2015 5:00:45 AM, IEnglishman wrote:
At 1/1/2015 4:41:29 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 12/31/2014 2:00:15 PM, wsmunit7 wrote:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org...

Christianity borrows heavily from mythology. The very basis of Christianity, Jesus, a mortal man with a god father is very, very common in mythologies predating Christianity by hundreds and thousands of years: the Greeks, the Romans, the Hindu, the Egyptian the Chinese.

I can think of several other "borrowings." Unless I am mistaken (and I will be researching it) the ceremonial canabilism of drinking blood and eating flesh is an age old pagan ritual.

Anyone know of others?

Other Dionysus mythology suggests that the god Dionysus turned water into wine at a wedding, all centuries before the dawn of Christianity.

What an astonishing coincidence! This is inexplicable without Jesus of Nazareth being mythological! It's not like Dinoysus was the Greek God of wine or something!

It's simply one more parallel suggesting that Jesus is a myth constructed from portions of other myths. You seem to think this is somehow changed by the fact that Dionysus was the god of wine. Can you explain how that changes the fact that the miracles of Jesus tend to be taken from older religions?

It's a trivial matter if two miracle workers happen to perform similar deeds when one is devoted to that deed. Based off your reasoning, it's impossible for two really good boxers to have knocked out their opponents in half-an-hour and therefore Muhammad Ali is a myth. Do you get the problem with comparing God-figures now?
Bulproof admits he's a troll http://www.debate.org... (see post 16). Do not feed.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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1/1/2015 5:22:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 5:10:04 AM, IEnglishman wrote:
At 1/1/2015 5:05:37 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 1/1/2015 5:00:45 AM, IEnglishman wrote:
At 1/1/2015 4:41:29 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 12/31/2014 2:00:15 PM, wsmunit7 wrote:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org...

Christianity borrows heavily from mythology. The very basis of Christianity, Jesus, a mortal man with a god father is very, very common in mythologies predating Christianity by hundreds and thousands of years: the Greeks, the Romans, the Hindu, the Egyptian the Chinese.

I can think of several other "borrowings." Unless I am mistaken (and I will be researching it) the ceremonial canabilism of drinking blood and eating flesh is an age old pagan ritual.

Anyone know of others?

Other Dionysus mythology suggests that the god Dionysus turned water into wine at a wedding, all centuries before the dawn of Christianity.

What an astonishing coincidence! This is inexplicable without Jesus of Nazareth being mythological! It's not like Dinoysus was the Greek God of wine or something!

It's simply one more parallel suggesting that Jesus is a myth constructed from portions of other myths. You seem to think this is somehow changed by the fact that Dionysus was the god of wine. Can you explain how that changes the fact that the miracles of Jesus tend to be taken from older religions?

It's a trivial matter if two miracle workers happen to perform similar deeds when one is devoted to that deed.
Uhm... so as a Christian, you believe that Dionysus was a real god and performed real miracles?

Based off your reasoning, it's impossible for two really good boxers to have knocked out their opponents in half-an-hour and therefore Muhammad Ali is a myth.
We're not talking about boxers, and we're not talking about a knock-out punch. We're talking about two proposed gods, and one miracle, apparently mirrored from the prior god myth, to the latter god myth.

Do you get the problem with comparing God-figures now?
I "got" them before. It would seen that you're the one not understanding - or choosing not to understand - the problem this creates for Christianity which claims that Jesus is God, and the only God - excepting his two other personalities (the Trinity). The claim then becomes that Dionysus was not a god, and therefore did not change water into wine. It leaves him as a myth, and the miracle as a myth as well. But then we're told to believe that Jesus was real, is God, and did perform the very same miracle for real. It's far more likely that those borrowing from older myths, are simply creating newer myths.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
IEnglishman
Posts: 148
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1/1/2015 6:29:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 5:22:19 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 1/1/2015 5:10:04 AM, IEnglishman wrote:
At 1/1/2015 5:05:37 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 1/1/2015 5:00:45 AM, IEnglishman wrote:
At 1/1/2015 4:41:29 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 12/31/2014 2:00:15 PM, wsmunit7 wrote:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org...

Christianity borrows heavily from mythology. The very basis of Christianity, Jesus, a mortal man with a god father is very, very common in mythologies predating Christianity by hundreds and thousands of years: the Greeks, the Romans, the Hindu, the Egyptian the Chinese.

I can think of several other "borrowings." Unless I am mistaken (and I will be researching it) the ceremonial canabilism of drinking blood and eating flesh is an age old pagan ritual.

Anyone know of others?

Other Dionysus mythology suggests that the god Dionysus turned water into wine at a wedding, all centuries before the dawn of Christianity.

What an astonishing coincidence! This is inexplicable without Jesus of Nazareth being mythological! It's not like Dinoysus was the Greek God of wine or something!

It's simply one more parallel suggesting that Jesus is a myth constructed from portions of other myths. You seem to think this is somehow changed by the fact that Dionysus was the god of wine. Can you explain how that changes the fact that the miracles of Jesus tend to be taken from older religions?

It's a trivial matter if two miracle workers happen to perform similar deeds when one is devoted to that deed.
Uhm... so as a Christian, you believe that Dionysus was a real god and performed real miracles?

No.

You just think that because you believe silly ahistorical nonsense about Jesus being a myth like Dionysus.

In my analysis of the two I assume Dionysus is a myth and Jesus is real, as does every qualified historian, even Richard Carrier, your idol, who noted how unusual it was for historians to write Jesus off as myth and legend.

Based off your reasoning, it's impossible for two really good boxers to have knocked out their opponents in half-an-hour and therefore Muhammad Ali is a myth.
We're not talking about boxers, and we're not talking about a knock-out punch.

Irrelevant. It's an analogy.

We're talking about two proposed gods, and one miracle, apparently mirrored from the prior god myth, to the latter god myth.

"Apparantly\", really? Dionysus was allegedly a part of a different historical milieu than Jesus. Dionysus was a Greek God and in Greek culture. Jesus was a Jew and in Jewish culture. There's no significance between two miracle-worker figures in different cultures having a similar miracle ascribed them. See my analogy of boxers and the knock out punch.

Do you get the problem with comparing God-figures now?
I "got" them before.

It would seem you did not.

It would seen that you're the one not understanding - or choosing not to understand - the problem this creates for Christianity which claims that Jesus is God, and the only God - excepting his two other personalities (the Trinity). The claim then becomes that Dionysus was not a god, and therefore did not change water into wine. It leaves him as a myth, and the miracle as a myth as well. But then we're told to believe that Jesus was real, is God, and did perform the very same miracle for real. It's far more likely that those borrowing from older myths, are simply creating newer myths.

Or maybe it's just a coincidence. They happen all the time in history.http://www.snopes.com...
Bulproof admits he's a troll http://www.debate.org... (see post 16). Do not feed.
bulproof
Posts: 25,296
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1/1/2015 7:13:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 5:00:45 AM, IEnglishman wrote:
At 1/1/2015 4:41:29 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 12/31/2014 2:00:15 PM, wsmunit7 wrote:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org...

Christianity borrows heavily from mythology. The very basis of Christianity, Jesus, a mortal man with a god father is very, very common in mythologies predating Christianity by hundreds and thousands of years: the Greeks, the Romans, the Hindu, the Egyptian the Chinese.

I can think of several other "borrowings." Unless I am mistaken (and I will be researching it) the ceremonial canabilism of drinking blood and eating flesh is an age old pagan ritual.

Anyone know of others?

Other Dionysus mythology suggests that the god Dionysus turned water into wine at a wedding, all centuries before the dawn of Christianity.

What an astonishing coincidence! This is inexplicable without Jesus of Nazareth being mythological! It's not like Dinoysus was the Greek God of wine or something!

What it means is that if this Dionysus is mythical as christianity teaches and his deeds were "recorded" before the alleged deeds of jesus then that makes jesus just as mythical.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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1/1/2015 9:45:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 6:29:03 AM, IEnglishman wrote:
At 1/1/2015 5:22:19 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 1/1/2015 5:10:04 AM, IEnglishman wrote:
At 1/1/2015 5:05:37 AM, Beastt wrote:

Other Dionysus mythology suggests that the god Dionysus turned water into wine at a wedding, all centuries before the dawn of Christianity.

What an astonishing coincidence! This is inexplicable without Jesus of Nazareth being mythological! It's not like Dinoysus was the Greek God of wine or something!

It's simply one more parallel suggesting that Jesus is a myth constructed from portions of other myths. You seem to think this is somehow changed by the fact that Dionysus was the god of wine. Can you explain how that changes the fact that the miracles of Jesus tend to be taken from older religions?

It's a trivial matter if two miracle workers happen to perform similar deeds when one is devoted to that deed.
Uhm... so as a Christian, you believe that Dionysus was a real god and performed real miracles?

No.

You just think that because you believe silly ahistorical nonsense about Jesus being a myth like Dionysus.
Now wait a second. In your last post you talked about Jesus and Dionysus as being two gods who each performed the same miracle. Now suddenly you're saying that Jesus was real, and Dionusys wasn't. I'm quite ready to discuss this with you, but you need to decide what you believe.

As for it being non-sense that Jesus was a myth, why is a "real god" performing the very same miracles claimed of mythical gods? It's more likely that this was a borrowed claim, than a very odd coincidence (especially considering the other miracles borrowed from other pagan gods; i.e. Horus walking on water).

In my analysis of the two I assume Dionysus is a myth and Jesus is real, as does every qualified historian, even Richard Carrier, your idol, who noted how unusual it was for historians to write Jesus off as myth and legend.
No sir. Richard Carrier is a VERY outspoken Jesus mythicist. So it would appear that your analysis has been performed with very little information. Meanwhile, Richard Carrier is a fully qualified and respected historian, and his analysis demonstrates that the evidence for Jesus is insufficient to suggest him as being an actual historical character. And to further qualify that finding, he subjected the evidence to Bayes Theorem, which confirmed his assessment.

Based off your reasoning, it's impossible for two really good boxers to have knocked out their opponents in half-an-hour and therefore Muhammad Ali is a myth.
We're not talking about boxers, and we're not talking about a knock-out punch.

Irrelevant. It's an analogy.
My point is that it's a very poor analogy, and based on your current placement of the goal posts, it doesn't serve as an analogy at all. Two real boxers who have knocked out opponents is not an analogy befitting one myth and one historical character, both performing the very same miracle and in the same circumstances.

We're talking about two proposed gods, and one miracle, apparently mirrored from the prior god myth, to the latter god myth.

"Apparantly\", really? Dionysus was allegedly a part of a different historical milieu than Jesus.
If you want to talk about irrelevance, THAT is completely irrelevant.

Dionysus was a Greek God and in Greek culture. Jesus was a Jew and in Jewish culture.
Which is also completely irrelevant.

There's no significance between two miracle-worker figures in different cultures having a similar miracle ascribed them. See my analogy of boxers and the knock out punch.
Is that really the best you can do? It's amazing that people who produce blanket assertions based on nothing but irrelevant differences can have the slightest belief that they're due any level of respect. If this is the best argument you can present (that it doesn't matter because the two myths arose from different times and cultures), then you're fully deserving of any assessment of poor intellect one might care to provide.

Do you get the problem with comparing God-figures now?
I "got" them before.

It would seem you did not.
My point was that "understood" would have been a more appropriate phrasing. However, if you wish to sound... simplistic, that is your prerogative.

It would seem that you're the one not understanding - or choosing not to understand - the problem this creates for Christianity which claims that Jesus is God, and the only God - excepting his two other personalities (the Trinity). The claim then becomes that Dionysus was not a god, and therefore did not change water into wine. It leaves him as a myth, and the miracle as a myth as well. But then we're told to believe that Jesus was real, is God, and did perform the very same miracle for real. It's far more likely that those borrowing from older myths, are simply creating newer myths.
Please don't alter the thread hierarchy as marked by the forum coding (colons on the left).

Or maybe it's just a coincidence. They happen all the time in history.http://www.snopes.com...
Most of the coincidences between Lincoln and Kennedy were of an inverse nature. We're also talking about what you believe to be one mythical god, and one "real god", both performing the same miracle, even down to some of the more mundane details. Given the fact that pagan beliefs were quite common to the area in which the Jesus stories arose, and were commonly held at the time the Jesus stories began, it is far more likely that the Dionysus myths were simply borrowed by Christianity, and applied to their mythical god, than for Jesus to have coincidentally, performed precisely the same miracle, as a commonly known mythical god in the region where the stories of Jesus arose. And once again, this is made more likely by the other "coincidental" miracles of pagan gods.

When you consider that the Jesus stories and Christian traditions also have him being born on a pagan sacred holiday, performing miracles formerly claimed of Horus, being referred to by the very same nicknames previously used to describe Mithra, curing illness by casting out evil spirits (a very common primitive myth), engaging in, and promoting multiple borrowed rituals, making outrageous claims about events coinciding with his death, and becoming yet another of histories 15 or 16 dying and rising savior gods, there remains absolutely no cause to believe the story to be anything other than a myth.

And if you'd like to support historicity for Jesus, you're going to need some actual evidence, rather than simply pointing to the bias of historical tradition.

- Why did none of the 66 historians known to be living in that very time and region, not indicate the slightest knowledge of Jesus?

- Why is there not a single written reference to Jesus from ANYONE in the time and region where the Bible claims he lived?

- Why does the Bible place Jesus in Nazareth, at a time which archeological evidence shows Nazareth was not occupied?

- Why did Theophilus of Antioch (a 2nd century Christian Bishop), never mention Jesus in all of his letters, comprising full books on Christianity?

- Why did Philo of Alexandria never make even a vague reference to anyone matching the Jesus character of the Bible, while Philo wrote exclusively of the political and religious events of the very time and region where Jesus was said to have existed?


Don't take your anger out on me when you fail. I'm only a messenger. Do you hate your parents for telling you about Santa?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
MadCornishBiker
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1/1/2015 9:53:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 4:35:38 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/31/2014 7:52:46 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
In scripture God's heavenly son, who came to earth to occupy the flesh of Jesus at his baptism,
And as usual this is not ever mentioned in the bible.

Actually, it is, but there's no point in showing you because you don't want to know.

If someone with a brain asks I shall happily explain.