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Just Horrible.

dtaylor971
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1/1/2015 8:36:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Another one bites the dust because of religion and discrimination. Forget ISIS and all those extremists. In the case of Josh Alcorn, [s]he committed suicide because [s]he didn't feel accepted as a transgender teen. Little Josh began feeling like a girl trapped in a boy's body at age four (long before a choice can be made) and felt confused for ten long years before finally realizing who [s]he was. But her parents wouldn't accept it.

"My mom started taking me to a therapist, but would only take me to christian [sic] therapists, (who were all very biased) so I never actually got the therapy I needed to cure me of my depression. I only got more christians [sic] telling me that I was selfish and wrong and that I should look to God for help."

"After 10 years of confusion I finally understood who I was. I immediately told my mom, and she reacted extremely negatively, telling me that it was a phase, that I would never truly be a girl, that God doesn't make mistakes, that I am wrong. If you are reading this, parents, please don't tell this to your kids," she wrote. "Even if you are Christian or are against transgender people don't ever say that to someone, especially your kid. That won't do anything but make them hate them self [sic]. That's exactly what it did to me."

Religion pushed Josh's mother to actually discriminate against her own son, and go against his very wishes and happiness. Some people are so blinded by religion that they can discriminate without even realizing it- which results in deadly consequences. I don't care if you are an atheist, Muslim, Christian... accept people for who they are.

Even if being gay, transgender, or feeling trapped is a choice, it is their choice to make. Regardless of whether you believe in that choice, you have to respect it. They are not harming society, they are not killing anyone. It's discrimination against them that kills. To everyone out there, even non religious people: STOP DISCRIMINATING.

Ok, being homosexual or transgender might seem disgusting. Wrong. Satanic. As long as it is not putting you in any real danger, just accept it. You may not like it, and you may despise it. But please, PLEASE learn that hating and discriminating them isn't going to do any good... it will just lead them to suicide, depression, etc. So just sit down, and shut the hell up.

http://edition.cnn.com...
"I don't know why gays want to marry, I have spent the last 25 years wishing I wasn't allowed to." -Sadolite
YYW
Posts: 36,256
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1/1/2015 8:41:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
It is horrible. Horrible beyond description. I posted this in another thread, but I'm going to post it here as well because it's an appropriate response to this too.

The intersection of Christianity, and religion generally, with homosexuality and various issues of sexual identity is a precarious one. The reason for that is a general lack of understanding of what homosexuality is, and a socio-historical failure to account for the differences between gender norms of the Romans, for example, and homosexuality as it exists now.

The concept of "homosexuality" -and the concept of sexual identity more generally- did not exist until the 19th century. There was male on male sexual contact, although generally speaking the most common form of male on male sexual contact was between adult freeborn men and boys aged from 11-17 of lower social classes. So, what a number of (egregiously mistranslated) bibles refer to as "homosexuality" really isn't "homosexuality" but a form of class-based pederasty that would be abhorrent to us now.

Consenting homosexual relationships (like, between men over the age which we recognize as one where someone can give consent to sexual acts) were extremely uncommon. The reason is because "to be penetrated" was perceived as emasculating, which was highly frowned upon in the kinds of honor cultures that existed in the ancient world.

But, the ancient greek word was mistranslated (mostly by the Catholic church) over and over through time and space (starting at the end of the dark ages) and the cultural norm against homosexuality evolved over time to frown upon any kind of same sex sexual contact.

A number of interesting things happened between the dark ages and Victorian England as they relate to homosexuality, but the victorian age was sort of the next historical vicissitude whereby an (ironically) prudish yet sex-obsessed culture organized around condemning all kinds of sexual activity other than that which took place within the bounds of heterosexual monogamous marriage in the missionary position. There were a number reasons for that, but the most poignant ones centered around the newly developing theory that some diseases might be transmitted sexually.

Because disease was regarded as some kind of divine judgement, and basically all sexual acts other than those which took place within the bonds of heterosexual monogamous marriage presented a more or less serious public health risk, things like chastity became connected to moral virtue, and things like whorishness became morally debase.

A lot of those same stupid ideas found new expression when AIDS came to America and moral majority types advanced the monstrously idiotic idea that AIDS was God's judgement on gay people for being f@gs. Basically, there is a historical trend connecting good health to moral virtue which -stupid as it may be- probably has an evolutionary basis.

The problem was that along the way a lot of those culturally inherited stupid ideas (that really were nothing more than dumb platitudes taken from theological hogwash) acquired newfound legitimacy in the field of "mental health." (As an aside, I would encourage everyone to read up on the mad history of combatting madness... mental health was little more than pseudoscience until the 1990s and even now there are seriously bad things that still go on... just read the DSM-5.)

But, the regime of "mental health" claimed that homosexuality was a deviation from the norm (another spurious, and idiotic claim) which meant that it was "bad" and therefore "something to be corrected." Shrinks of all kinds did some really fvcked up things to gay people, from castration to electrocution and all in the name of finding a "cure." Even though I wasn't alive, it is infuriating because of how recently this sh!t happened -and the reason it happened and was allowed to go on is because of how fvcked up psychology was for a very long time because it gave ostensibly "scientific" (and I use that word loosely) legitimacy to a set of ideas that are anything but.

Christians, in the 60s especially, looked to the field of mental health and supported it because, it mirrored the stupid ideas that people in that time had about homosexuality. The ironic thing is that this is basically the first time that science and religion started to get along... uniting around the idea that two consenting dudes getting it on was something that was intolerable. But, telling other people how to live their lives under the auspices of "science" was sort of an overarching theme of the first world until, curiously enough, the late 1990s when people finally started to realize... "hey guys... maybe we're fvcking more things up than we're fixing."

But, to this day, shitty people who call themselves Christians continue to vilify homosexuality, and all kinds of sexual anything that is not within the scope of monogamous, heterosexual sex in the context of marriage. There are some people who are old, stupid, and set in their ways -and there are others who are young, dumb and too stupid to see how their inherited stupidity is destroying the social legitimacy not only of Christianity, but of religion.

I'm not usually this cynical/condescending... but I'm at a point where, I'm going to borrow a phrase from Howard Beale:

I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore.

I'm tired of the stupid, ignorant, backward redneck theology that equally stupid, ignorant, backward people call "the truth." What they call "the truth" is not true, it's an inherited mistake that repeats itself generation after generation and even now there are "social conservatives" on this site that talk about how evil, sinful, [insert other stupid adjective here] homosexuality is.

There is a point where it becomes very difficult to hold people accountable for things that they could not have known, but we're at a place in society where if you still think homosexuality is wrong, that's a stronger indication that something is wrong with you than that what you're saying has any merit or legitimacy.

When kids kill themselves because they hate being gay and they think that they will have no chance to live a happy life because of who they are, and the reason they feel that way is because of the fvcked up worldview that people who call themselves Christians have -that's when you can know things are bad. And things are bad, and it is comprehensively and exclusively the fault of social conservatives.

I don't care what you think you know. I don't care what you think you believe. If you think homosexuality is wrong, then you're wrong, and if you preach that all f@gs to to hell then there is a special place in hell reserved for you who have by your tongue hurt both the church and presumably forced people to turn their backs on God. And that's the real tragedy here... that so many people have lost their salvation because they actually believed the political sh!t that people (especially Southern Baptists and conservative Catholics) call "the truth."
Tsar of DDO
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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1/1/2015 8:48:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The mother did the right thing by seeking help. It was the Christian therapists that failed her and her son.
You can appreciate why the Jews asked that Jesus be put to death. Moses was told not to suffer false prophets, they must be put to death.

Deuteronomy 18: 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."
dtaylor971
Posts: 1,907
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1/1/2015 8:54:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 8:48:26 AM, Harikrish wrote:
The mother did the right thing by seeking help. It was the Christian therapists that failed her and her son.

No, actually, she couldn't accept her son for being transgender. If she had accepted her son, he would still be alive. Some of her friends were Christian, and they accepted him more than his own mother.

"She came out as gay at school, a move that was supported by friends but made her parents angry, she wrote."

The Christian therapists were horrible, I agree. But maybe if his mother had a tiny touch of decency, Josh would still be living. I don't understand why people can't accept other people for who they are... especially considering the mountain of evidence that being homosexual is not a choice.

You can appreciate why the Jews asked that Jesus be put to death. Moses was told not to suffer false prophets, they must be put to death.

Deuteronomy 18: 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."

This isn't Jesus. This isn't 1 AD. This is right here, right now. If religious views haven't changed since the start of the common era, then it is seriously screwed up.
"I don't know why gays want to marry, I have spent the last 25 years wishing I wasn't allowed to." -Sadolite
Dragonfang
Posts: 1,122
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1/1/2015 9:13:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Reminds me of the report about an anorexic who hang herself after she was told she should put on weight. Is the way to handle anorexia is by giving anorexics surgery?

The whole thing is based on a wishful thinking fallacy: http://www.fallacyfiles.org...

I want P to be true.
Therefore, P is true.

""[I]t is a habit of mankind to entrust to careless hope what they long for, and to use sovereign reason to thrust aside what they do not desire."
-Thucydides, The Landmark Thucydides, edited by Robert B. Strassler, p. 282.

Transsexuality is simply illogical. If transsexuals are victims of anything, they are victims of reality. They wish they were from the opposite gender, well, unfortunately they are not. Napoleon wishes he was taller, unfortunately he is not. Bob wishes he had a harley that can fly and travel in time, unfortunately, he doesn't. John wishes he was rich and omniscient, unfortunately, he is not.
We can have an unlimited amount of wishes. However, believing that pretending that our wish is true will make it true is simply a delusion, a wishful thinking fallacy. When people try to convince themselves of lies that contradicts reality that is a delusion, and if they might end up believing it.
Pretending they are something they are not is not compassionate or tolerant, it is lying to them and ourselves. Government legalization that would force people to share a delusion of people who define themselves based on mutable sexual behaviors while ignoring objective reality is the pinnacle of irrationality. Why should someone be forced into a compromising situation where he have to make a special exception because someone would like to pretend he/she is from the other gender?

For educational purpose here is the Emperor's New Clothes short story:

They told the emperor that they were very fine tailors and could sew a lovely new suit for him. It would be so light and fine that it would seem invisible. Only those who were stupid could not see it. The emperor was very excited and ordered the new tailors to begin their work.
One day, the king asked the prime minister to go and see how much work the two tailors had done. He saw the two men moving scissors in the air but he could see no cloth! He kept quiet for fear of being called stupid and ignorant. Instead, he praised the fabric and said it was marvellous.
Finally, the emperor"s new dress was ready. He could see nothing but he too did not want to appear stupid. He admired the dress and thanked the tailors. He was asked to parade down the street for all to see the new clothes. The emperor paraded down the main street. The people could only see a naked emperor but no one admitted it for fear of being thought stupid.
They foolishly praised the invisible fabric and the colours. The emperor was very happy.
At last, a child cried out, "The emperor is naked!"
Soon everyone began to murmur the same thing and very soon all shouted, "The emperor is not wearing anything!"
The emperor realised the truth but preferred to believe that his people were stupid.

http://shortstoriesshort.com...
Harikrish
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1/1/2015 9:26:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 8:54:11 AM, dtaylor971 wrote:
At 1/1/2015 8:48:26 AM, Harikrish wrote:
The mother did the right thing by seeking help. It was the Christian therapists that failed her and her son.

No, actually, she couldn't accept her son for being transgender. If she had accepted her son, he would still be alive. Some of her friends were Christian, and they accepted him more than his own mother.

"She came out as gay at school, a move that was supported by friends but made her parents angry, she wrote."

The Christian therapists were horrible, I agree. But maybe if his mother had a tiny touch of decency, Josh would still be living. I don't understand why people can't accept other people for who they are... especially considering the mountain of evidence that being homosexual is not a choice.

You can appreciate why the Jews asked that Jesus be put to death. Moses was told not to suffer false prophets, they must be put to death.

Deuteronomy 18: 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."

This isn't Jesus. This isn't 1 AD. This is right here, right now. If religious views haven't changed since the start of the common era, then it is seriously screwed up.

It was her Christian indoctrination that forced her to reject the sons condition. The Jews thought by crucifying Jesus they would be free from his nonsense. But they were wrong. Christians began to worship the wooden cross Jesus was crucified on and even made Jesus who was tried, convicted and put to death for blasphemy a God.
Christians will stop at nothing to keep that wooden cross alive. They even have Christian therapists for those who cannot see beyond a wooden cross..the God that was, the God that is.
bulproof
Posts: 25,203
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1/1/2015 9:42:44 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 9:13:45 AM, Dragonfang wrote:
Transsexuality is simply illogical.
So saith the proponent of misogyny that is islam.
We all know how unbelievable your doctrines are.
Rape any woman who dares to show her face or arms or legs, yes we understand islam.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Vox_Veritas
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1/1/2015 10:06:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
*sigh*
I suppose it's only human nature that everybody would blame his death on the Christian religion.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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1/1/2015 10:16:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 8:36:38 AM, dtaylor971 wrote:
Another one bites the dust because of religion and discrimination. Forget ISIS and all those extremists. In the case of Josh Alcorn, [s]he committed suicide because [s]he didn't feel accepted as a transgender teen. Little Josh began feeling like a girl trapped in a boy's body at age four (long before a choice can be made) and felt confused for ten long years before finally realizing who [s]he was. But her parents wouldn't accept it.

"My mom started taking me to a therapist, but would only take me to christian [sic] therapists, (who were all very biased) so I never actually got the therapy I needed to cure me of my depression. I only got more christians [sic] telling me that I was selfish and wrong and that I should look to God for help."

"After 10 years of confusion I finally understood who I was. I immediately told my mom, and she reacted extremely negatively, telling me that it was a phase, that I would never truly be a girl, that God doesn't make mistakes, that I am wrong. If you are reading this, parents, please don't tell this to your kids," she wrote. "Even if you are Christian or are against transgender people don't ever say that to someone, especially your kid. That won't do anything but make them hate them self [sic]. That's exactly what it did to me."

Religion pushed Josh's mother to actually discriminate against her own son, and go against his very wishes and happiness. Some people are so blinded by religion that they can discriminate without even realizing it- which results in deadly consequences. I don't care if you are an atheist, Muslim, Christian... accept people for who they are.

Even if being gay, transgender, or feeling trapped is a choice, it is their choice to make. Regardless of whether you believe in that choice, you have to respect it. They are not harming society, they are not killing anyone. It's discrimination against them that kills. To everyone out there, even non religious people: STOP DISCRIMINATING.

Ok, being homosexual or transgender might seem disgusting. Wrong. Satanic. As long as it is not putting you in any real danger, just accept it. You may not like it, and you may despise it. But please, PLEASE learn that hating and discriminating them isn't going to do any good... it will just lead them to suicide, depression, etc. So just sit down, and shut the hell up.


http://edition.cnn.com...

Oh Hogwash. The only people to blame in this are the girl and her parents. "Transgender" is a sick desire to mutilate one's own body. Sadly, this girl came into the world through some messed up parents, and she carried out her desire to mutilate herself her own way. The girl was in rebellion against God and against her parents and the parents didn't know how to handle it. I'm sure they are choked up on guilt and regret, but the girl committed an act of defiance and that was her choice.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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1/1/2015 10:21:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 8:41:01 AM, YYW wrote:
It is horrible. Horrible beyond description. I posted this in another thread, but I'm going to post it here as well because it's an appropriate response to this too.

The intersection of Christianity, and religion generally, with homosexuality and various issues of sexual identity is a precarious one. The reason for that is a general lack of understanding of what homosexuality is, and a socio-historical failure to account for the differences between gender norms of the Romans, for example, and homosexuality as it exists now.

The concept of "homosexuality" -and the concept of sexual identity more generally- did not exist until the 19th century. There was male on male sexual contact, although generally speaking the most common form of male on male sexual contact was between adult freeborn men and boys aged from 11-17 of lower social classes. So, what a number of (egregiously mistranslated) bibles refer to as "homosexuality" really isn't "homosexuality" but a form of class-based pederasty that would be abhorrent to us now.

Consenting homosexual relationships (like, between men over the age which we recognize as one where someone can give consent to sexual acts) were extremely uncommon. The reason is because "to be penetrated" was perceived as emasculating, which was highly frowned upon in the kinds of honor cultures that existed in the ancient world.

But, the ancient greek word was mistranslated (mostly by the Catholic church) over and over through time and space (starting at the end of the dark ages) and the cultural norm against homosexuality evolved over time to frown upon any kind of same sex sexual contact.

A number of interesting things happened between the dark ages and Victorian England as they relate to homosexuality, but the victorian age was sort of the next historical vicissitude whereby an (ironically) prudish yet sex-obsessed culture organized around condemning all kinds of sexual activity other than that which took place within the bounds of heterosexual monogamous marriage in the missionary position. There were a number reasons for that, but the most poignant ones centered around the newly developing theory that some diseases might be transmitted sexually.

Because disease was regarded as some kind of divine judgement, and basically all sexual acts other than those which took place within the bonds of heterosexual monogamous marriage presented a more or less serious public health risk, things like chastity became connected to moral virtue, and things like whorishness became morally debase.

A lot of those same stupid ideas found new expression when AIDS came to America and moral majority types advanced the monstrously idiotic idea that AIDS was God's judgement on gay people for being f@gs. Basically, there is a historical trend connecting good health to moral virtue which -stupid as it may be- probably has an evolutionary basis.

The problem was that along the way a lot of those culturally inherited stupid ideas (that really were nothing more than dumb platitudes taken from theological hogwash) acquired newfound legitimacy in the field of "mental health." (As an aside, I would encourage everyone to read up on the mad history of combatting madness... mental health was little more than pseudoscience until the 1990s and even now there are seriously bad things that still go on... just read the DSM-5.)

But, the regime of "mental health" claimed that homosexuality was a deviation from the norm (another spurious, and idiotic claim) which meant that it was "bad" and therefore "something to be corrected." Shrinks of all kinds did some really fvcked up things to gay people, from castration to electrocution and all in the name of finding a "cure." Even though I wasn't alive, it is infuriating because of how recently this sh!t happened -and the reason it happened and was allowed to go on is because of how fvcked up psychology was for a very long time because it gave ostensibly "scientific" (and I use that word loosely) legitimacy to a set of ideas that are anything but.

Christians, in the 60s especially, looked to the field of mental health and supported it because, it mirrored the stupid ideas that people in that time had about homosexuality. The ironic thing is that this is basically the first time that science and religion started to get along... uniting around the idea that two consenting dudes getting it on was something that was intolerable. But, telling other people how to live their lives under the auspices of "science" was sort of an overarching theme of the first world until, curiously enough, the late 1990s when people finally started to realize... "hey guys... maybe we're fvcking more things up than we're fixing."

But, to this day, shitty people who call themselves Christians continue to vilify homosexuality, and all kinds of sexual anything that is not within the scope of monogamous, heterosexual sex in the context of marriage. There are some people who are old, stupid, and set in their ways -and there are others who are young, dumb and too stupid to see how their inherited stupidity is destroying the social legitimacy not only of Christianity, but of religion.

I'm not usually this cynical/condescending... but I'm at a point where, I'm going to borrow a phrase from Howard Beale:

I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore.

I'm tired of the stupid, ignorant, backward redneck theology that equally stupid, ignorant, backward people call "the truth." What they call "the truth" is not true, it's an inherited mistake that repeats itself generation after generation and even now there are "social conservatives" on this site that talk about how evil, sinful, [insert other stupid adjective here] homosexuality is.

There is a point where it becomes very difficult to hold people accountable for things that they could not have known, but we're at a place in society where if you still think homosexuality is wrong, that's a stronger indication that something is wrong with you than that what you're saying has any merit or legitimacy.

When kids kill themselves because they hate being gay and they think that they will have no chance to live a happy life because of who they are, and the reason they feel that way is because of the fvcked up worldview that people who call themselves Christians have -that's when you can know things are bad. And things are bad, and it is comprehensively and exclusively the fault of social conservatives.

I don't care what you think you know. I don't care what you think you believe. If you think homosexuality is wrong, then you're wrong, and if you preach that all f@gs to to hell then there is a special place in hell reserved for you who have by your tongue hurt both the church and presumably forced people to turn their backs on God. And that's the real tragedy here... that so many people have lost their salvation because they actually believed the political sh!t that people (especially Southern Baptists and conservative Catholics) call "the truth."

Lack of understanding what homosexuality is? do you want everybody to watch some movies so they can begin to understand this unfathomable topic? What a bunch of nonsense. If you can't tell the difference between a man and a woman, and if you can't see they are made for each other in marriage, you need to get your head out of the hole of sodomy.
Dragonfang
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1/1/2015 11:54:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 9:42:44 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 1/1/2015 9:13:45 AM, Dragonfang wrote:
Transsexuality is simply illogical.
So saith the proponent of misogyny that is islam.
We all know how unbelievable your doctrines are.
Rape any woman who dares to show her face or arms or legs, yes we understand islam.

Hmm... A pretty incomprehensive rebuttal if I ever saw one. I am in awe.

I am guessing that is why there are these verses in the Quran?

[5] And they who guard their private parts
[6] Except from their wives or those their right hands possess, for indeed, they will not be blamed -
[7] But whoever seeks beyond that, then those are the transgressors -

(Quran 23:5-7)

Enjoy fantasy and lala land!

http://disneyparks.disney.go.com...
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,586
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1/1/2015 12:14:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 9:13:45 AM, Dragonfang wrote:

The whole thing is based on a wishful thinking fallacy: http://www.fallacyfiles.org...

I want P to be true.
Therefore, P is true.

""[I]t is a habit of mankind to entrust to careless hope what they long for, and to use sovereign reason to thrust aside what they do not desire."
-Thucydides, The Landmark Thucydides, edited by Robert B. Strassler, p. 282.

Transsexuality is simply illogical. If transsexuals are victims of anything, they are victims of reality. They wish they were from the opposite gender, well, unfortunately they are not. Napoleon wishes he was taller, unfortunately he is not. Bob wishes he had a harley that can fly and travel in time, unfortunately, he doesn't. John wishes he was rich and omniscient, unfortunately, he is not.
We can have an unlimited amount of wishes. However, believing that pretending that our wish is true will make it true is simply a delusion, a wishful thinking fallacy. When people try to convince themselves of lies that contradicts reality that is a delusion, and if they might end up believing it.
Pretending they are something they are not is not compassionate or tolerant, it is lying to them and ourselves. Government legalization that would force people to share a delusion of people who define themselves based on mutable sexual behaviors while ignoring objective reality is the pinnacle of irrationality. Why should someone be forced into a compromising situation where he have to make a special exception because someone would like to pretend he/she is from the other gender?

For educational purpose here is the Emperor's New Clothes short story:

What's really hilarious about this post is how the author is oblivious to putting to task the very same words towards his religion.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Dragonfang
Posts: 1,122
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1/1/2015 1:18:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 12:14:38 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
What's really hilarious about this post is how the author is oblivious to putting to task the very same words towards his religion.

I actually find your statement even more hilarious since it is coming from someone who refuses (read: can't) to defend his religion.
If the sane can be coaxed into rationality, and rationality presupposes logic, then we can't do much to someone who actively rejects the existence of logic.

The lack of relevant response indicates that you lack a rebuttal to my post. That is all I need to know.
dtaylor971
Posts: 1,907
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1/1/2015 2:15:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 10:16:22 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 1/1/2015 8:36:38 AM, dtaylor971 wrote:
Another one bites the dust because of religion and discrimination. Forget ISIS and all those extremists. In the case of Josh Alcorn, [s]he committed suicide because [s]he didn't feel accepted as a transgender teen. Little Josh began feeling like a girl trapped in a boy's body at age four (long before a choice can be made) and felt confused for ten long years before finally realizing who [s]he was. But her parents wouldn't accept it.

"My mom started taking me to a therapist, but would only take me to christian [sic] therapists, (who were all very biased) so I never actually got the therapy I needed to cure me of my depression. I only got more christians [sic] telling me that I was selfish and wrong and that I should look to God for help."

"After 10 years of confusion I finally understood who I was. I immediately told my mom, and she reacted extremely negatively, telling me that it was a phase, that I would never truly be a girl, that God doesn't make mistakes, that I am wrong. If you are reading this, parents, please don't tell this to your kids," she wrote. "Even if you are Christian or are against transgender people don't ever say that to someone, especially your kid. That won't do anything but make them hate them self [sic]. That's exactly what it did to me."

Religion pushed Josh's mother to actually discriminate against her own son, and go against his very wishes and happiness. Some people are so blinded by religion that they can discriminate without even realizing it- which results in deadly consequences. I don't care if you are an atheist, Muslim, Christian... accept people for who they are.

Even if being gay, transgender, or feeling trapped is a choice, it is their choice to make. Regardless of whether you believe in that choice, you have to respect it. They are not harming society, they are not killing anyone. It's discrimination against them that kills. To everyone out there, even non religious people: STOP DISCRIMINATING.

Ok, being homosexual or transgender might seem disgusting. Wrong. Satanic. As long as it is not putting you in any real danger, just accept it. You may not like it, and you may despise it. But please, PLEASE learn that hating and discriminating them isn't going to do any good... it will just lead them to suicide, depression, etc. So just sit down, and shut the hell up.


http://edition.cnn.com...

Oh Hogwash. The only people to blame in this are the girl and her parents. "Transgender" is a sick desire to mutilate one's own body. Sadly, this girl came into the world through some messed up parents, and she carried out her desire to mutilate herself her own way. The girl was in rebellion against God and against her parents and the parents didn't know how to handle it. I'm sure they are choked up on guilt and regret, but the girl committed an act of defiance and that was her choice.

How much of a moron are you? First off, it was a boy. Second, this boy started feeling confused at the age of four, long before someone could "decide" to become homosexual or transgender. His parents were people who wanted a perfect Christian boy, and decided to push him and not accept him unless he was Christian and near perfect. "Transgender" means that you feel like a woman when you are a man, or vice versa.

I absolutely love how you think this boy was committing an act of defiance against God. Let's look at the facts:

-He became confused and experiencing transgender at the age of four.
-There is plenty of evidence to suggest being transgender is not a choice (see video.)
-He cried tears of joy when he found out what he was (transgender.)
-He killed himself AFTER his parents told him that God does not mess up AND after therapists told him to look to God for help.

Please do your research.
"I don't know why gays want to marry, I have spent the last 25 years wishing I wasn't allowed to." -Sadolite
dtaylor971
Posts: 1,907
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1/1/2015 2:16:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 10:06:04 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
*sigh*
I suppose it's only human nature that everybody would blame his death on the Christian religion.

I don't blame it on the Christian Religion (which I think is peaceful) but I blame it on the acts caused by a deep belief in the Christian Religion.
"I don't know why gays want to marry, I have spent the last 25 years wishing I wasn't allowed to." -Sadolite
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,586
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1/1/2015 2:32:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 1:18:37 PM, Dragonfang wrote:
At 1/1/2015 12:14:38 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
What's really hilarious about this post is how the author is oblivious to putting to task the very same words towards his religion.

I actually find your statement even more hilarious since it is coming from someone who refuses (read: can't) to defend his religion.

What religion?

If the sane can be coaxed into rationality, and rationality presupposes logic, then we can't do much to someone who actively rejects the existence of logic.

Strawman.

The lack of relevant response indicates that you lack a rebuttal to my post. That is all I need to know.

Yes, I understand that your hypocrisy is irrelevant to you as is anyone who points it out.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Dragonfang
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1/1/2015 5:12:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 2:32:28 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 1/1/2015 1:18:37 PM, Dragonfang wrote:
At 1/1/2015 12:14:38 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
What's really hilarious about this post is how the author is oblivious to putting to task the very same words towards his religion.

I actually find your statement even more hilarious since it is coming from someone who refuses (read: can't) to defend his religion.

What religion?

Atheism per your avatar.

If the sane can be coaxed into rationality, and rationality presupposes logic, then we can't do much to someone who actively rejects the existence of logic.

Strawman.

Throwing terms around without explaining their relevance and how they apply.

The lack of relevant response indicates that you lack a rebuttal to my post. That is all I need to know.

Yes, I understand that your hypocrisy is irrelevant to you as is anyone who points it out.

You went off-topic, that implies that you concede the points relevant to the topic. That is all.

You assume: 1- The existence of hypocrisy, 2- That ad hominem provides a rational response to the points raised. I call question-begging, please provide support for your claims.
DanneJeRusse
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1/1/2015 5:46:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 5:12:38 PM, Dragonfang wrote:
At 1/1/2015 2:32:28 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 1/1/2015 1:18:37 PM, Dragonfang wrote:
At 1/1/2015 12:14:38 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
What's really hilarious about this post is how the author is oblivious to putting to task the very same words towards his religion.

I actually find your statement even more hilarious since it is coming from someone who refuses (read: can't) to defend his religion.

What religion?

Atheism per your avatar.

LOL. Yes, and baldness is a hair color, not collecting stamps is a hobby.

So firetrucking weak, dude. Ever actually cracked open a dictionary?

If the sane can be coaxed into rationality, and rationality presupposes logic, then we can't do much to someone who actively rejects the existence of logic.

Strawman.

Throwing terms around without explaining their relevance and how they apply.

Not understanding what fallacies are but using them continuously shows you have no interest in rational discussion.

The lack of relevant response indicates that you lack a rebuttal to my post. That is all I need to know.

Yes, I understand that your hypocrisy is irrelevant to you as is anyone who points it out.

You went off-topic, that implies that you concede the points relevant to the topic. That is all.

LOL.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Fatihah
Posts: 7,716
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1/1/2015 5:52:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 8:36:38 AM, dtaylor971 wrote:
Another one bites the dust because of religion and discrimination. Forget ISIS and all those extremists. In the case of Josh Alcorn, [s]he committed suicide because [s]he didn't feel accepted as a transgender teen. Little Josh began feeling like a girl trapped in a boy's body at age four (long before a choice can be made) and felt confused for ten long years before finally realizing who [s]he was. But her parents wouldn't accept it.

"My mom started taking me to a therapist, but would only take me to christian [sic] therapists, (who were all very biased) so I never actually got the therapy I needed to cure me of my depression. I only got more christians [sic] telling me that I was selfish and wrong and that I should look to God for help."

"After 10 years of confusion I finally understood who I was. I immediately told my mom, and she reacted extremely negatively, telling me that it was a phase, that I would never truly be a girl, that God doesn't make mistakes, that I am wrong. If you are reading this, parents, please don't tell this to your kids," she wrote. "Even if you are Christian or are against transgender people don't ever say that to someone, especially your kid. That won't do anything but make them hate them self [sic]. That's exactly what it did to me."

Religion pushed Josh's mother to actually discriminate against her own son, and go against his very wishes and happiness. Some people are so blinded by religion that they can discriminate without even realizing it- which results in deadly consequences. I don't care if you are an atheist, Muslim, Christian... accept people for who they are.

Even if being gay, transgender, or feeling trapped is a choice, it is their choice to make. Regardless of whether you believe in that choice, you have to respect it. They are not harming society, they are not killing anyone. It's discrimination against them that kills. To everyone out there, even non religious people: STOP DISCRIMINATING.

Ok, being homosexual or transgender might seem disgusting. Wrong. Satanic. As long as it is not putting you in any real danger, just accept it. You may not like it, and you may despise it. But please, PLEASE learn that hating and discriminating them isn't going to do any good... it will just lead them to suicide, depression, etc. So just sit down, and shut the hell up.


http://edition.cnn.com...

Response: As a Muslim, we respect all people as long as they are respectful. That however does not mean one should accept all your decisions,especially those that go against Allah's law.
Skepsikyma
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1/1/2015 6:08:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 9:13:45 AM, Dragonfang wrote:
Reminds me of the report about an anorexic who hang herself after she was told she should put on weight. Is the way to handle anorexia is by giving anorexics surgery?

The whole thing is based on a wishful thinking fallacy: http://www.fallacyfiles.org...

I want P to be true.
Therefore, P is true.

""[I]t is a habit of mankind to entrust to careless hope what they long for, and to use sovereign reason to thrust aside what they do not desire."
-Thucydides, The Landmark Thucydides, edited by Robert B. Strassler, p. 282.

Transsexuality is simply illogical. If transsexuals are victims of anything, they are victims of reality. They wish they were from the opposite gender, well, unfortunately they are not. Napoleon wishes he was taller, unfortunately he is not. Bob wishes he had a harley that can fly and travel in time, unfortunately, he doesn't. John wishes he was rich and omniscient, unfortunately, he is not.
We can have an unlimited amount of wishes. However, believing that pretending that our wish is true will make it true is simply a delusion, a wishful thinking fallacy. When people try to convince themselves of lies that contradicts reality that is a delusion, and if they might end up believing it.
Pretending they are something they are not is not compassionate or tolerant, it is lying to them and ourselves. Government legalization that would force people to share a delusion of people who define themselves based on mutable sexual behaviors while ignoring objective reality is the pinnacle of irrationality. Why should someone be forced into a compromising situation where he have to make a special exception because someone would like to pretend he/she is from the other gender?

For educational purpose here is the Emperor's New Clothes short story:

They told the emperor that they were very fine tailors and could sew a lovely new suit for him. It would be so light and fine that it would seem invisible. Only those who were stupid could not see it. The emperor was very excited and ordered the new tailors to begin their work.
One day, the king asked the prime minister to go and see how much work the two tailors had done. He saw the two men moving scissors in the air but he could see no cloth! He kept quiet for fear of being called stupid and ignorant. Instead, he praised the fabric and said it was marvellous.
Finally, the emperor"s new dress was ready. He could see nothing but he too did not want to appear stupid. He admired the dress and thanked the tailors. He was asked to parade down the street for all to see the new clothes. The emperor paraded down the main street. The people could only see a naked emperor but no one admitted it for fear of being thought stupid.
They foolishly praised the invisible fabric and the colours. The emperor was very happy.
At last, a child cried out, "The emperor is naked!"
Soon everyone began to murmur the same thing and very soon all shouted, "The emperor is not wearing anything!"
The emperor realised the truth but preferred to believe that his people were stupid.

http://shortstoriesshort.com...

Some authoritative religious leaders would disagree with you, including Iranian maraji'.

"Q1271. Some people have the appearance of men. They have female psychological and sexual tendencies though. If they do not undergo the operation of sex change, they might commit sins insofar as their sexual behavior is concerned. Is it permissible for them to undergo such an operation?
A: There is no harm in undergoing the said operation if the end result would be determining of the true sex of the person provided that it does not lead to the commission of any haram act or a vile consequence.

Q1272: What is the ruling in the matter of undergoing an operation for a hermaphrodite person to become either man or woman?
A: There is no objection to it in itself provided that one avoids haram preliminary steps."
http://www.leader.ir...
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Dragonfang
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1/1/2015 6:19:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 5:46:46 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 1/1/2015 5:12:38 PM, Dragonfang wrote:
At 1/1/2015 2:32:28 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 1/1/2015 1:18:37 PM, Dragonfang wrote:
At 1/1/2015 12:14:38 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
What's really hilarious about this post is how the author is oblivious to putting to task the very same words towards his religion.

I actually find your statement even more hilarious since it is coming from someone who refuses (read: can't) to defend his religion.

What religion?

Atheism per your avatar.

LOL. Yes, and baldness is a hair color, not collecting stamps is a hobby.

So firetrucking weak, dude. Ever actually cracked open a dictionary?

Interesting transparently useless and false analogies, maybe you just can't come up with a real life analysis with evidence. Having a god-belief, proselytizing it, and attacking other religions is in fact a religion.

I don't believe that God doesn't exist, therefore I am like a non-stamp collector, therefore I have no belief?

Atheism have a creation story, Darwinian evolution, which is used to define the value of human life, the purpose of life, and its own afterlife story. Atheists don't have a common moral statement, but the common feature they have is total freedom from morality and absolutes. They more often than not evolve into Consequentialism (or Nihilism if they are more consistent with their belief) and narcissistic elitism.

Atheism is more of a religion that Buddhism is.

If the sane can be coaxed into rationality, and rationality presupposes logic, then we can't do much to someone who actively rejects the existence of logic.

Strawman.

Throwing terms around without explaining their relevance and how they apply.

Not understanding what fallacies are but using them continuously shows you have no interest in rational discussion.

So you admit that you are not interesting in rational discussion?

The lack of relevant response indicates that you lack a rebuttal to my post. That is all I need to know.

Yes, I understand that your hypocrisy is irrelevant to you as is anyone who points it out.

You went off-topic, that implies that you concede the points relevant to the topic. That is all.

LOL.

Remember to take some moments to breath while rolling on the floor like a doped-up monkey breathing helium for no reason, cardiac arrest's such a b----.
Dragonfang
Posts: 1,122
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1/1/2015 6:44:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 6:08:06 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 1/1/2015 9:13:45 AM, Dragonfang wrote:
Reminds me of the report about an anorexic who hang herself after she was told she should put on weight. Is the way to handle anorexia is by giving anorexics surgery?

The whole thing is based on a wishful thinking fallacy: http://www.fallacyfiles.org...

I want P to be true.
Therefore, P is true.

""[I]t is a habit of mankind to entrust to careless hope what they long for, and to use sovereign reason to thrust aside what they do not desire."
-Thucydides, The Landmark Thucydides, edited by Robert B. Strassler, p. 282.

Transsexuality is simply illogical. If transsexuals are victims of anything, they are victims of reality. They wish they were from the opposite gender, well, unfortunately they are not. Napoleon wishes he was taller, unfortunately he is not. Bob wishes he had a harley that can fly and travel in time, unfortunately, he doesn't. John wishes he was rich and omniscient, unfortunately, he is not.
We can have an unlimited amount of wishes. However, believing that pretending that our wish is true will make it true is simply a delusion, a wishful thinking fallacy. When people try to convince themselves of lies that contradicts reality that is a delusion, and if they might end up believing it.
Pretending they are something they are not is not compassionate or tolerant, it is lying to them and ourselves. Government legalization that would force people to share a delusion of people who define themselves based on mutable sexual behaviors while ignoring objective reality is the pinnacle of irrationality. Why should someone be forced into a compromising situation where he have to make a special exception because someone would like to pretend he/she is from the other gender?

For educational purpose here is the Emperor's New Clothes short story:

They told the emperor that they were very fine tailors and could sew a lovely new suit for him. It would be so light and fine that it would seem invisible. Only those who were stupid could not see it. The emperor was very excited and ordered the new tailors to begin their work.
One day, the king asked the prime minister to go and see how much work the two tailors had done. He saw the two men moving scissors in the air but he could see no cloth! He kept quiet for fear of being called stupid and ignorant. Instead, he praised the fabric and said it was marvellous.
Finally, the emperor"s new dress was ready. He could see nothing but he too did not want to appear stupid. He admired the dress and thanked the tailors. He was asked to parade down the street for all to see the new clothes. The emperor paraded down the main street. The people could only see a naked emperor but no one admitted it for fear of being thought stupid.
They foolishly praised the invisible fabric and the colours. The emperor was very happy.
At last, a child cried out, "The emperor is naked!"
Soon everyone began to murmur the same thing and very soon all shouted, "The emperor is not wearing anything!"
The emperor realised the truth but preferred to believe that his people were stupid.

http://shortstoriesshort.com...

Some authoritative religious leaders would disagree with you, including Iranian maraji'.

"Q1271. Some people have the appearance of men. They have female psychological and sexual tendencies though. If they do not undergo the operation of sex change, they might commit sins insofar as their sexual behavior is concerned. Is it permissible for them to undergo such an operation?
A: There is no harm in undergoing the said operation if the end result would be determining of the true sex of the person provided that it does not lead to the commission of any haram act or a vile consequence.

Q1272: What is the ruling in the matter of undergoing an operation for a hermaphrodite person to become either man or woman?
A: There is no objection to it in itself provided that one avoids haram preliminary steps."
http://www.leader.ir...

My argument was not based on authority, so that doesn't provide a rebuttal. Furthermore, Shiism generally hold no credibility; the source of legislation is based on the Quran and Sunnah and any scholar's conclusion can be readily dropped based on them. Similar surgeries are only permitted in ambiguous cases of hermaphrodite, preferably once the actual gender is reasonably concluded. However, self-mutilation based on whims is not allowed. Overall, the maraji' seems to be accurate, even if he is unspecific compared to the questions, but even so that doesn't actually support your position.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,586
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1/1/2015 6:52:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 6:19:43 PM, Dragonfang wrote:

Interesting transparently useless and false analogies, maybe you just can't come up with a real life analysis with evidence. Having a god-belief, proselytizing it, and attacking other religions is in fact a religion.

I don't believe that God doesn't exist, therefore I am like a non-stamp collector, therefore I have no belief?

Atheism have a creation story, Darwinian evolution, which is used to define the value of human life, the purpose of life, and its own afterlife story. Atheists don't have a common moral statement, but the common feature they have is total freedom from morality and absolutes. They more often than not evolve into Consequentialism (or Nihilism if they are more consistent with their belief) and narcissistic elitism.

Atheism is more of a religion that Buddhism is.


Remember to take some moments to breath while rolling on the floor like a doped-up monkey breathing helium for no reason, cardiac arrest's such a b----.

I'm terribly sorry, I had no idea you lost touch with reality. My bad.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
BLAHthedebator
Posts: 982
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1/1/2015 7:49:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I literally cannot believe how many people on this thread actually are on the side of the mother.
I don't want a lot for Christmas
There is just one thing I need
I don't care about the presents
Underneath the Christmas tree
I just want you for my own
More than you could ever know
Make my wish come true
All I want for Christmas...
Is...
Youuuuuu
That1User
Posts: 1,064
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1/1/2015 7:54:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 8:36:38 AM, dtaylor971 wrote:
Another one bites the dust because of religion and discrimination. Forget ISIS and all those extremists. In the case of Josh Alcorn, [s]he committed suicide because [s]he didn't feel accepted as a transgender teen. Little Josh began feeling like a girl trapped in a boy's body at age four (long before a choice can be made) and felt confused for ten long years before finally realizing who [s]he was. But her parents wouldn't accept it.

"My mom started taking me to a therapist, but would only take me to christian [sic] therapists, (who were all very biased) so I never actually got the therapy I needed to cure me of my depression. I only got more christians [sic] telling me that I was selfish and wrong and that I should look to God for help."

"After 10 years of confusion I finally understood who I was. I immediately told my mom, and she reacted extremely negatively, telling me that it was a phase, that I would never truly be a girl, that God doesn't make mistakes, that I am wrong. If you are reading this, parents, please don't tell this to your kids," she wrote. "Even if you are Christian or are against transgender people don't ever say that to someone, especially your kid. That won't do anything but make them hate them self [sic]. That's exactly what it did to me."

Religion pushed Josh's mother to actually discriminate against her own son, and go against his very wishes and happiness. Some people are so blinded by religion that they can discriminate without even realizing it- which results in deadly consequences. I don't care if you are an atheist, Muslim, Christian... accept people for who they are.

Even if being gay, transgender, or feeling trapped is a choice, it is their choice to make. Regardless of whether you believe in that choice, you have to respect it. They are not harming society, they are not killing anyone. It's discrimination against them that kills. To everyone out there, even non religious people: STOP DISCRIMINATING.

Ok, being homosexual or transgender might seem disgusting. Wrong. Satanic. As long as it is not putting you in any real danger, just accept it. You may not like it, and you may despise it. But please, PLEASE learn that hating and discriminating them isn't going to do any good... it will just lead them to suicide, depression, etc. So just sit down, and shut the hell up.


http://edition.cnn.com...

This is horrible. People should be more tolerant of these things.
"Our life is what our thoughts make it."
R13; Marcus Aurelius
"When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -Marcus Aurelius
"Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." -Voltaire
"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do. "-Voltaire
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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1/1/2015 7:58:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 8:48:26 AM, Harikrish wrote:
The mother did the right thing by seeking help. It was the Christian therapists that failed her and her son.
You can appreciate why the Jews asked that Jesus be put to death. Moses was told not to suffer false prophets, they must be put to death.

Deuteronomy 18: 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."

Yep, that's the good ol' Christian God - anyone steps out of line, anyone doesn't believe the writings of ignorant men... death to them all.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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1/1/2015 8:46:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 2:15:28 PM, dtaylor971 wrote:
At 1/1/2015 10:16:22 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 1/1/2015 8:36:38 AM, dtaylor971 wrote:
Another one bites the dust because of religion and discrimination. Forget ISIS and all those extremists. In the case of Josh Alcorn, [s]he committed suicide because [s]he didn't feel accepted as a transgender teen. Little Josh began feeling like a girl trapped in a boy's body at age four (long before a choice can be made) and felt confused for ten long years before finally realizing who [s]he was. But her parents wouldn't accept it.

"My mom started taking me to a therapist, but would only take me to christian [sic] therapists, (who were all very biased) so I never actually got the therapy I needed to cure me of my depression. I only got more christians [sic] telling me that I was selfish and wrong and that I should look to God for help."

"After 10 years of confusion I finally understood who I was. I immediately told my mom, and she reacted extremely negatively, telling me that it was a phase, that I would never truly be a girl, that God doesn't make mistakes, that I am wrong. If you are reading this, parents, please don't tell this to your kids," she wrote. "Even if you are Christian or are against transgender people don't ever say that to someone, especially your kid. That won't do anything but make them hate them self [sic]. That's exactly what it did to me."

Religion pushed Josh's mother to actually discriminate against her own son, and go against his very wishes and happiness. Some people are so blinded by religion that they can discriminate without even realizing it- which results in deadly consequences. I don't care if you are an atheist, Muslim, Christian... accept people for who they are.

Even if being gay, transgender, or feeling trapped is a choice, it is their choice to make. Regardless of whether you believe in that choice, you have to respect it. They are not harming society, they are not killing anyone. It's discrimination against them that kills. To everyone out there, even non religious people: STOP DISCRIMINATING.

Ok, being homosexual or transgender might seem disgusting. Wrong. Satanic. As long as it is not putting you in any real danger, just accept it. You may not like it, and you may despise it. But please, PLEASE learn that hating and discriminating them isn't going to do any good... it will just lead them to suicide, depression, etc. So just sit down, and shut the hell up.


http://edition.cnn.com...

Oh Hogwash. The only people to blame in this are the girl and her parents. "Transgender" is a sick desire to mutilate one's own body. Sadly, this girl came into the world through some messed up parents, and she carried out her desire to mutilate herself her own way. The girl was in rebellion against God and against her parents and the parents didn't know how to handle it. I'm sure they are choked up on guilt and regret, but the girl committed an act of defiance and that was her choice.

How much of a moron are you? First off, it was a boy. Second, this boy started feeling confused at the age of four, long before someone could "decide" to become homosexual or transgender. His parents were people who wanted a perfect Christian boy, and decided to push him and not accept him unless he was Christian and near perfect. "Transgender" means that you feel like a woman when you are a man, or vice versa.

I absolutely love how you think this boy was committing an act of defiance against God. Let's look at the facts:

-He became confused and experiencing transgender at the age of four.
-There is plenty of evidence to suggest being transgender is not a choice (see video.)
-He cried tears of joy when he found out what he was (transgender.)
-He killed himself AFTER his parents told him that God does not mess up AND after therapists told him to look to God for help.

Please do your research.

It was a boy? Do you mean she was a boy or he was a boy? Was it a girl who thought it was supposed to be a boy's body she was housed in, or was it a boy who thought it was supposed to be a girl's body housing him? My condolences to the parents, but for this discussion I really dont think it matters if "it" was a he or a she or a she-male or a he-she. It was a messed up person who commited the most extreme act of selfishness because he or she wanted to leave people hurting. Suicide is the most extremely selfish thing anybody can do. It is not me who is failing to do research. Your bias forbids you from considering anything from a differing point of view. You think I have not heard all of these blame games before? The first person responsible for that suicide is the one who killed themself. The parents are left with the pain and guilt to grieve with. That selfish person was not being honest, trying to blame others for their own desire to hurt the feelings of her parents as much as she possibly could and that is what she did. Shame on her. And shame on you for blaming other people.
dtaylor971
Posts: 1,907
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1/1/2015 9:08:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 8:46:06 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 1/1/2015 2:15:28 PM, dtaylor971 wrote:
At 1/1/2015 10:16:22 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 1/1/2015 8:36:38 AM, dtaylor971 wrote:
Another one bites the dust because of religion and discrimination. Forget ISIS and all those extremists. In the case of Josh Alcorn, [s]he committed suicide because [s]he didn't feel accepted as a transgender teen. Little Josh began feeling like a girl trapped in a boy's body at age four (long before a choice can be made) and felt confused for ten long years before finally realizing who [s]he was. But her parents wouldn't accept it.

"My mom started taking me to a therapist, but would only take me to christian [sic] therapists, (who were all very biased) so I never actually got the therapy I needed to cure me of my depression. I only got more christians [sic] telling me that I was selfish and wrong and that I should look to God for help."

"After 10 years of confusion I finally understood who I was. I immediately told my mom, and she reacted extremely negatively, telling me that it was a phase, that I would never truly be a girl, that God doesn't make mistakes, that I am wrong. If you are reading this, parents, please don't tell this to your kids," she wrote. "Even if you are Christian or are against transgender people don't ever say that to someone, especially your kid. That won't do anything but make them hate them self [sic]. That's exactly what it did to me."

Religion pushed Josh's mother to actually discriminate against her own son, and go against his very wishes and happiness. Some people are so blinded by religion that they can discriminate without even realizing it- which results in deadly consequences. I don't care if you are an atheist, Muslim, Christian... accept people for who they are.

Even if being gay, transgender, or feeling trapped is a choice, it is their choice to make. Regardless of whether you believe in that choice, you have to respect it. They are not harming society, they are not killing anyone. It's discrimination against them that kills. To everyone out there, even non religious people: STOP DISCRIMINATING.

Ok, being homosexual or transgender might seem disgusting. Wrong. Satanic. As long as it is not putting you in any real danger, just accept it. You may not like it, and you may despise it. But please, PLEASE learn that hating and discriminating them isn't going to do any good... it will just lead them to suicide, depression, etc. So just sit down, and shut the hell up.


http://edition.cnn.com...

Oh Hogwash. The only people to blame in this are the girl and her parents. "Transgender" is a sick desire to mutilate one's own body. Sadly, this girl came into the world through some messed up parents, and she carried out her desire to mutilate herself her own way. The girl was in rebellion against God and against her parents and the parents didn't know how to handle it. I'm sure they are choked up on guilt and regret, but the girl committed an act of defiance and that was her choice.

How much of a moron are you? First off, it was a boy. Second, this boy started feeling confused at the age of four, long before someone could "decide" to become homosexual or transgender. His parents were people who wanted a perfect Christian boy, and decided to push him and not accept him unless he was Christian and near perfect. "Transgender" means that you feel like a woman when you are a man, or vice versa.

I absolutely love how you think this boy was committing an act of defiance against God. Let's look at the facts:

-He became confused and experiencing transgender at the age of four.
-There is plenty of evidence to suggest being transgender is not a choice (see video.)
-He cried tears of joy when he found out what he was (transgender.)
-He killed himself AFTER his parents told him that God does not mess up AND after therapists told him to look to God for help.

Please do your research.

It was a boy? Do you mean she was a boy or he was a boy? Was it a girl who thought it was supposed to be a boy's body she was housed in, or was it a boy who thought it was supposed to be a girl's body housing him? My condolences to the parents, but for this discussion I really dont think it matters if "it" was a he or a she or a she-male or a he-she. It was a messed up person who commited the most extreme act of selfishness because he or she wanted to leave people hurting. Suicide is the most extremely selfish thing anybody can do. It is not me who is failing to do research. Your bias forbids you from considering anything from a differing point of view. You think I have not heard all of these blame games before? The first person responsible for that suicide is the one who killed themself. The parents are left with the pain and guilt to grieve with. That selfish person was not being honest, trying to blame others for their own desire to hurt the feelings of her parents as much as she possibly could and that is what she did. Shame on her. And shame on you for blaming other people.

My bias? Oh, please. Suicide is an act that is normally used when life is not worth living, or when one is depressed. Right here, as it was seen in the suicide note he wrote, he was being discriminated against which led to his decision to commit suicide. This discrimination was from the mother, and that discrimination was caused by the typical Christian hatred of people who are transgender, bisexual, or homosexual. He was very, very happy when he figured out the term for him- transgender- and was not depressed. He became depressed when the mother acted very negatively towards who he was and did not accept him. Even if Josh did this to get revenge (which is HIGHLY unlikely) it is still undeniable that he became depressed because his mother did not even accept him anymore.

If you look at the suicide note itself (which you probably haven't) you can clearly see the suicide was because of depression, not revenge. He tried to get help, but the "help" he received was from Christian therapists who told him he was wrong, which further worsened his depression. Suicide isn't usually justifiable, but this seemed like an absolute last resort for Josh. You STILL haven't responded to the evidence that suggests transgender/homosexuality is not a choice, let alone a choice to harm someone besides themselves. Respond to the evidence (the video) and we can actually discuss.

http://abcnews.go.com...
"I don't know why gays want to marry, I have spent the last 25 years wishing I wasn't allowed to." -Sadolite
dtaylor971
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1/1/2015 9:12:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 7:49:28 PM, BLAHthedebator wrote:
I literally cannot believe how many people on this thread actually are on the side of the mother.

I am just astonished. I try to be at least somewhat open-minded, which is why I tried not to direct my posts at Christians, but at all people. But this makes me lose faith in humanity.
"I don't know why gays want to marry, I have spent the last 25 years wishing I wasn't allowed to." -Sadolite
bulproof
Posts: 25,203
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1/1/2015 9:32:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 8:46:06 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 1/1/2015 2:15:28 PM, dtaylor971 wrote:
At 1/1/2015 10:16:22 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 1/1/2015 8:36:38 AM, dtaylor971 wrote:
Another one bites the dust because of religion and discrimination. Forget ISIS and all those extremists. In the case of Josh Alcorn, [s]he committed suicide because [s]he didn't feel accepted as a transgender teen. Little Josh began feeling like a girl trapped in a boy's body at age four (long before a choice can be made) and felt confused for ten long years before finally realizing who [s]he was. But her parents wouldn't accept it.

"My mom started taking me to a therapist, but would only take me to christian [sic] therapists, (who were all very biased) so I never actually got the therapy I needed to cure me of my depression. I only got more christians [sic] telling me that I was selfish and wrong and that I should look to God for help."

"After 10 years of confusion I finally understood who I was. I immediately told my mom, and she reacted extremely negatively, telling me that it was a phase, that I would never truly be a girl, that God doesn't make mistakes, that I am wrong. If you are reading this, parents, please don't tell this to your kids," she wrote. "Even if you are Christian or are against transgender people don't ever say that to someone, especially your kid. That won't do anything but make them hate them self [sic]. That's exactly what it did to me."

Religion pushed Josh's mother to actually discriminate against her own son, and go against his very wishes and happiness. Some people are so blinded by religion that they can discriminate without even realizing it- which results in deadly consequences. I don't care if you are an atheist, Muslim, Christian... accept people for who they are.

Even if being gay, transgender, or feeling trapped is a choice, it is their choice to make. Regardless of whether you believe in that choice, you have to respect it. They are not harming society, they are not killing anyone. It's discrimination against them that kills. To everyone out there, even non religious people: STOP DISCRIMINATING.

Ok, being homosexual or transgender might seem disgusting. Wrong. Satanic. As long as it is not putting you in any real danger, just accept it. You may not like it, and you may despise it. But please, PLEASE learn that hating and discriminating them isn't going to do any good... it will just lead them to suicide, depression, etc. So just sit down, and shut the hell up.


http://edition.cnn.com...

Oh Hogwash. The only people to blame in this are the girl and her parents. "Transgender" is a sick desire to mutilate one's own body. Sadly, this girl came into the world through some messed up parents, and she carried out her desire to mutilate herself her own way. The girl was in rebellion against God and against her parents and the parents didn't know how to handle it. I'm sure they are choked up on guilt and regret, but the girl committed an act of defiance and that was her choice.

How much of a moron are you? First off, it was a boy. Second, this boy started feeling confused at the age of four, long before someone could "decide" to become homosexual or transgender. His parents were people who wanted a perfect Christian boy, and decided to push him and not accept him unless he was Christian and near perfect. "Transgender" means that you feel like a woman when you are a man, or vice versa.

I absolutely love how you think this boy was committing an act of defiance against God. Let's look at the facts:

-He became confused and experiencing transgender at the age of four.
-There is plenty of evidence to suggest being transgender is not a choice (see video.)
-He cried tears of joy when he found out what he was (transgender.)
-He killed himself AFTER his parents told him that God does not mess up AND after therapists told him to look to God for help.

Please do your research.

It was a boy? Do you mean she was a boy or he was a boy? Was it a girl who thought it was supposed to be a boy's body she was housed in, or was it a boy who thought it was supposed to be a girl's body housing him? My condolences to the parents, but for this discussion I really dont think it matters if "it" was a he or a she or a she-male or a he-she. It was a messed up person who commited the most extreme act of selfishness because he or she wanted to leave people hurting. Suicide is the most extremely selfish thing anybody can do. It is not me who is failing to do research. Your bias forbids you from considering anything from a differing point of view. You think I have not heard all of these blame games before? The first person responsible for that suicide is the one who killed themself. The parents are left with the pain and guilt to grieve with. That selfish person was not being honest, trying to blame others for their own desire to hurt the feelings of her parents as much as she possibly could and that is what she did. Shame on her. And shame on you for blaming other people.

Yes, the nazi's used the dehumanisation attack. I see it still popular with the ignorant.
(I accept the godwin prize and thank you for it)
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin