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What if there is no hell?

Andrew27
Posts: 155
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6/12/2010 2:46:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Read a very interesting article online called the case against hell, ;ink below, the word that was used in the old testament that was translated as hell was actaully sheoul, which means grave! so what if there was no hell? ( i believe that there isn't) does that affect peoples attitude towards christainity?
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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6/12/2010 2:49:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Well actually many people interpret hell in a metaphorical way so it's quite possible there isn't a hell, at least not in the sense of being a flaming underground pit of doom.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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6/12/2010 2:50:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/12/2010 2:46:51 PM, Andrew27 wrote:
Read a very interesting article online called the case against hell, ;ink below, the word that was used in the old testament that was translated as hell was actaully sheoul, which means grave! so what if there was no hell? ( i believe that there isn't) does that affect peoples attitude towards christainity?

I don't really believe so much in hell or fear it. I remember Aquinas maybe? saying that Gods ability to forgive surpasses our ability to sin. To be honest, i think that we are quite capable of creating our own hell, and frequently do.
Andrew27
Posts: 155
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6/12/2010 2:51:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Well according to the article which uses the bible to back it's argument up, there is no cance of hell existing, it's not logical. do think though that we are very good at making our own personal hells here! I feel that relgion helps us to find away from that hell
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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6/12/2010 2:51:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/12/2010 2:51:33 PM, Mirza wrote:
I believe in Hell, and I find it <to be>the right place for people who commit enormously evil actions.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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6/12/2010 2:52:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/12/2010 2:51:33 PM, Mirza wrote:
I believe in Hell, and I find it the right place for people who commit enormously evil actions.

But also non-believers, at least according to the Qur'an. ;)
Mirza
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6/12/2010 2:52:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/12/2010 2:51:16 PM, Andrew27 wrote:
Well according to the article which uses the bible to back it's argument up, there is no cance of hell existing, it's not logical. do think though that we are very good at making our own personal hells here! I feel that relgion helps us to find away from that hell
Why is Hell not logical? Also, the New Testament explains it very well. And why would there be Day of Judgement if there is no Hell? What is there to judge?
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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6/12/2010 2:54:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/12/2010 2:52:55 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 6/12/2010 2:51:16 PM, Andrew27 wrote:
Well according to the article which uses the bible to back it's argument up, there is no cance of hell existing, it's not logical. do think though that we are very good at making our own personal hells here! I feel that relgion helps us to find away from that hell
Why is Hell not logical? Also, the New Testament explains it very well. And why would there be Day of Judgement if there is no Hell? What is there to judge?

As far as I know, hell isn't mentioned in the Old Testament so it could be a newer innovation as I don't think Jews actually believe in heaven and hell.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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6/12/2010 2:55:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Saying I'm going to go to hell if I don't believe in God is like saying a Unicorn will rape me if I don't believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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6/12/2010 3:00:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/12/2010 2:55:28 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Saying I'm going to go to hell if I don't believe in God is like saying a Unicorn will rape me if I don't believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Because an Unicorn is a Creator of existence?
Andrew27
Posts: 155
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6/12/2010 3:02:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
lol not quite sure if a uncorn could raoe u lol, Well guys if yo read the artcle you'll see that it doesnt make sense for there to be a hell. Besides i believe in a god of love not oe who wants to burn the majority of people! The hell part was added as a way of contrlling people we all know that fear is best way to control people, bible says alot of things we now kn are not relevant such as Timothy 2:11 - 14'Let a woman learn in all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority overmen, she is to keep silent'.We all acknowledge wrong
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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6/12/2010 3:02:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/12/2010 2:55:28 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Saying I'm going to go to hell if I don't believe in God is like saying a Unicorn will rape me if I don't believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

No worries either way Panda, i'll put in a good word for you.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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6/12/2010 3:02:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/12/2010 2:54:39 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
As far as I know, hell isn't mentioned in the Old Testament so it could be a newer innovation as I don't think Jews actually believe in heaven and hell.
They believe that it is temporary, not a punishment, etc.
InsertNameHere
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6/12/2010 3:04:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/12/2010 3:02:15 PM, Andrew27 wrote:
lol not quite sure if a uncorn could raoe u lol, Well guys if yo read the artcle you'll see that it doesnt make sense for there to be a hell. Besides i believe in a god of love not oe who wants to burn the majority of people! The hell part was added as a way of contrlling people we all know that fear is best way to control people, bible says alot of things we now kn are not relevant such as Timothy 2:11 - 14'Let a woman learn in all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority overmen, she is to keep silent'.We all acknowledge wrong

Well the Bible was edited about a gazillion times which explains the many different versions so I wouldn't be surprised if stuff like that was added later. Like even different sects of Christianity can't even agree on which Bible to use!
innomen
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6/12/2010 3:05:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/12/2010 3:02:15 PM, Andrew27 wrote:
lol not quite sure if a uncorn could raoe u lol, Well guys if yo read the artcle you'll see that it doesnt make sense for there to be a hell. Besides i believe in a god of love not oe who wants to burn the majority of people! The hell part was added as a way of contrlling people we all know that fear is best way to control people, bible says alot of things we now kn are not relevant such as Timothy 2:11 - 14'Let a woman learn in all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority overmen, she is to keep silent'.We all acknowledge wrong


Well, most of us anyway.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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6/12/2010 3:05:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/12/2010 3:02:15 PM, Andrew27 wrote:
lol not quite sure if a uncorn could raoe u lol, Well guys if yo read the artcle you'll see that it doesnt make sense for there to be a hell. Besides i believe in a god of love not oe who wants to burn the majority of people! The hell part was added as a way of contrlling people we all know that fear is best way to control people, bible says alot of things we now kn are not relevant such as Timothy 2:11 - 14'Let a woman learn in all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority overmen, she is to keep silent'.We all acknowledge wrong
Hitler should go to heaven? How can that be justified? And why is Hell illogical? It is for people who commited great crimes.

Also, why would there be a Day of Judgement, then? To judge people, of course. To distinct between dwellers of Paradise and dwellers of Hell.

[Matthew 24:36] "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

That is the Hour, Day of Judgement.
Andrew27
Posts: 155
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6/12/2010 3:06:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
exactly and lets be honest hell esn't make sense! other wise most people will be there! i know if the bible was taken literaly i would as i'm gay
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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6/12/2010 3:07:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/12/2010 3:05:18 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 6/12/2010 3:02:15 PM, Andrew27 wrote:
lol not quite sure if a uncorn could raoe u lol, Well guys if yo read the artcle you'll see that it doesnt make sense for there to be a hell. Besides i believe in a god of love not oe who wants to burn the majority of people! The hell part was added as a way of contrlling people we all know that fear is best way to control people, bible says alot of things we now kn are not relevant such as Timothy 2:11 - 14'Let a woman learn in all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority overmen, she is to keep silent'.We all acknowledge wrong
Hitler should go to heaven? How can that be justified? And why is Hell illogical? It is for people who commited great crimes.

Also, why would there be a Day of Judgement, then? To judge people, of course. To distinct between dwellers of Paradise and dwellers of Hell.

[Matthew 24:36] "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

That is the Hour, Day of Judgement.

Is it true that there's supposably more women in hell than men? This raises a red flag for me about the supposed equality between men and women in Islam...
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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6/12/2010 3:08:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/12/2010 3:07:40 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Is it true that there's supposably more women in hell than men? This raises a red flag for me about the supposed equality between men and women in Islam...
Yes. You see, there are more women than men in the world.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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6/12/2010 3:09:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/12/2010 3:06:12 PM, Andrew27 wrote:
exactly and lets be honest hell esn't make sense! other wise most people will be there! i know if the bible was taken literaly i would as i'm gay
Can you explain why it does not make sense?
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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6/12/2010 3:11:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/12/2010 3:08:56 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 6/12/2010 3:07:40 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Is it true that there's supposably more women in hell than men? This raises a red flag for me about the supposed equality between men and women in Islam...
Yes. You see, there are more women than men in the world.
Not a noticeable enough difference for Muhammad to recognize when he got his first glimpse of hell, though. Especially given female infanticide, unless infanticide leads children to hell, which would be very, very weird.
Andrew27
Posts: 155
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6/12/2010 3:12:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
the article explains why doesn't make sense so i suggest you read it! Also it isn't just people who commit great crimes who go to hell it's anyone wo doesn't believe, so someone who dedicated there lives to others but who isn't a christain winds up in hell, that crazy!
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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6/12/2010 3:12:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/12/2010 3:11:35 PM, mongeese wrote:
At 6/12/2010 3:08:56 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 6/12/2010 3:07:40 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Is it true that there's supposably more women in hell than men? This raises a red flag for me about the supposed equality between men and women in Islam...
Yes. You see, there are more women than men in the world.
Not a noticeable enough difference for Muhammad to recognize when he got his first glimpse of hell, though. Especially given female infanticide, unless infanticide leads children to hell, which would be very, very weird.

No, in Islam any child that dies enters heaven.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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6/12/2010 3:16:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/12/2010 3:11:35 PM, mongeese wrote:
Not a noticeable enough difference for Muhammad to recognize when he got his first glimpse of hell, though. Especially given female infanticide, unless infanticide leads children to hell, which would be very, very weird.
The reason why, as stated in authentic hadith, is mainly due to backbiting/slander being spread among women (very true), and when in angry states, they say, "I have never gotten anything good from you." But the natural part is also because they are more in numbers, and will be many more in the future.

[Qur'an 17:15] "... We never punish until we have sent a messenger."

Children who die, before reaching puberty, will go to Paradise. People who never heard the message of Islam will also be saved.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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6/12/2010 5:17:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/12/2010 3:18:27 PM, Andrew27 wrote:
Well i probably need to set a new relgion up, because my god doesn't burn people for not believing in a particular faith

Too late. There's already a name for that. Deism. The belief in God who doesn't intervene and without theology attached.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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6/12/2010 5:23:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/12/2010 2:46:51 PM, Andrew27 wrote:
Read a very interesting article online called the case against hell, ;ink below, the word that was used in the old testament that was translated as hell was actaully sheoul, which means grave! so what if there was no hell? ( i believe that there isn't) does that affect peoples attitude towards christainity?

You're confused with the theology here. There's a Hell in Christianity as made clear in the New Testament.

The Old Testament doesn't mention Hell, though it does mention graves. That's because the Old Testament is the Jewish Tanakh. The Jews don't believe in Hell, but Christianity added onto Judaism the doctrine of Hell.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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6/12/2010 9:24:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/12/2010 3:04:40 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:

Well the Bible was edited about a gazillion times which explains the many different versions so I wouldn't be surprised if stuff like that was added later.

I bet you can't back this up.
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