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FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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6/13/2010 8:45:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I may hate Christianity with a passion but I think Jesus(if he even existed) was actually a fantastic revolutionary. He had clear Anarcho-Communist leanings. And I don't know a single Christian who ever acts remotely like him. I think this is partially due to the writings of the apostles. Jesus's apostles were morons and probably the worst thing that ever happened to Christianity. If it weren't for them Christianity could actually be good competition with Buddhism as the least smelly thing in the shithole called religion.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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6/13/2010 8:59:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I really fail to see where Jesus ever had "anarcho-communist" leanings. The man was clearly not an anarchist; if he was ever anything, he was probably an Israeli nationalist and anti-imperialist. Nowhere did it say "I, Jesus, hate the state." Besides, the guy was freakin' religious, God-is-an-authority-we-should-listen-to-and-respect, prophet who believed in the divine right of kings. Come on, now.

And communist? I agree the guy was charitable, but communism entails quite a lot more than being charitable. You could make a case for it - much more so than him being an anarchist - but, still.

In other words - your analysis fails.
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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6/13/2010 9:01:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/13/2010 8:59:08 PM, Volkov wrote:
I really fail to see where Jesus ever had "anarcho-communist" leanings. The man was clearly not an anarchist; if he was ever anything, he was probably an Israeli nationalist and anti-imperialist. Nowhere did it say "I, Jesus, hate the state." Besides, the guy was freakin' religious, God-is-an-authority-we-should-listen-to-and-respect, prophet who believed in the divine right of kings. Come on, now.

And communist? I agree the guy was charitable, but communism entails quite a lot more than being charitable. You could make a case for it - much more so than him being an anarchist - but, still.

In other words - your analysis fails.

10/10

Freedo, why do you try to connect everything with anarchy or boxxy?

Btw, Volkov, I didn't go to church today, and my mother apparently cried. Made me feel like a jerk.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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6/13/2010 9:02:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
This reminds me of how Christian Conservatives pretend the founding fathers shared their religious and political beliefs.
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studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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6/13/2010 9:04:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/13/2010 9:02:17 PM, wjmelements wrote:
This reminds me of how Christian Conservatives pretend the founding fathers shared their religious and political beliefs.

Yeah, right. I believe most of the Founding Fathers were Deists, and many were anti-government. No?
FREEDO
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6/13/2010 9:05:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/13/2010 8:59:08 PM, Volkov wrote:
I really fail to see where Jesus ever had "anarcho-communist" leanings. The man was clearly not an anarchist; if he was ever anything, he was probably an Israeli nationalist and anti-imperialist. Nowhere did it say "I, Jesus, hate the state." Besides, the guy was freakin' religious, God-is-an-authority-we-should-listen-to-and-respect, prophet who believed in the divine right of kings. Come on, now.

He never said anything about the divine right of kings. That was Paul! This is where Christianity always crumbles.
Jesus was opposed to force, even in retaliation.
He said to turn the other cheek and similar things.
The abolition of force is Anarchism.

And communist? I agree the guy was charitable, but communism entails quite a lot more than being charitable. You could make a case for it - much more so than him being an anarchist - but, still.

He obviously was a Communist. He not only had no regard for riches and a very harsh view towards the rich but also at one point he takes some corn which is not his and eats it. The pharisees accuse him of theft for this. He also takes somebodies donkey without asking. This shows he had no regard for property. He also had the apostles and many other come forth and sell all their things and "give according to their need".
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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6/13/2010 9:07:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I don't know how Christians could possible reconcile their beliefs with conservatism. Even though I used to be one, it just makes no sense upon thorough examination.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
InsertNameHere
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6/13/2010 9:10:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
To be fair, the ideas of spreading the wealth around and working as a collective society were around centuries before Marx wrote them down and called them "Communism", but I highly doubt Jesus could be considered a Communist, at least not in the modern sense of the word. In reality, if he had lived in any communist state he would have no doubt been persecuted.
InsertNameHere
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6/13/2010 9:12:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/13/2010 9:11:29 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Marx didn't coin the term Communism. He made Marxism. It's different.

Well regardless, the general idea existed back in ancient Greece.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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6/13/2010 9:13:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/13/2010 9:05:59 PM, FREEDO wrote:
He never said anything about the divine right of kings. That was Paul! This is where Christianity always crumbles.

Silly, don't you read your Bible?

http://www.biblegateway.com...

I dunno about you, but methinks Caesar is.. yes, I believe so. He's a king.

Jesus was opposed to force, even in retaliation.
He said to turn the other cheek and similar things.
The abolition of force is Anarchism.

Yeah.. which is why he's never had anything violent attributed to him, from his mouth.

Oh, wait: http://en.wikipedia.org...

He obviously was a Communist. He not only had no regard for riches and a very harsh view towards the rich but also at one point he takes some corn which is not his and eats it. The pharisees accuse him of theft for this. He also takes somebodies donkey without asking. This shows he had no regard for property. He also had the apostles and many other come forth and sell all their things and "give according to their need".

Lol, is this what you think makes a communist a communist? God, you need to learn about your own ideology.
FREEDO
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6/13/2010 9:18:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/13/2010 9:13:19 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 6/13/2010 9:05:59 PM, FREEDO wrote:
He never said anything about the divine right of kings. That was Paul! This is where Christianity always crumbles.

Silly, don't you read your Bible?

http://www.biblegateway.com...

I dunno about you, but methinks Caesar is.. yes, I believe so. He's a king.

That's a good point, I forgot about that one.

Jesus was opposed to force, even in retaliation.
He said to turn the other cheek and similar things.
The abolition of force is Anarchism.

Yeah.. which is why he's never had anything violent attributed to him, from his mouth.

Oh, wait: http://en.wikipedia.org...

Revelation was written by John. Your point?

He obviously was a Communist. He not only had no regard for riches and a very harsh view towards the rich but also at one point he takes some corn which is not his and eats it. The pharisees accuse him of theft for this. He also takes somebodies donkey without asking. This shows he had no regard for property. He also had the apostles and many other come forth and sell all their things and "give according to their need".

Lol, is this what you think makes a communist a communist? God, you need to learn about your own ideology.

I'm not Communist.

But Communism is where everything belongs to everybody. No private property.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
InsertNameHere
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6/13/2010 9:20:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Yea, Freedo isn't communist. I find it amusing how everybody who is even remotely on the left is automatically labeled as a communist.
Volkov
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6/13/2010 9:24:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/13/2010 9:18:41 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Revelation was written by John. Your point?

1. Not the same John, fyi.
2. Jesus is a King, comes down proclaiming violence, retribution and cleansing.

I'm not Communist.

But Communism is where everything belongs to everybody. No private property.

Bzzzt. Wrong.

For one, in Jesus' words, everything technically belongs to God. The only reason why we lowly mortals don't get much is because, well, we're lowly mortals. If anything, we are to survive off the teet of God - aka the state.

Two, decisions are hardly democratic in these words. A key aspect of anarcho-communism is the absence of a real authority, where everyone is equal and everyone is their own authority. This isn't so in God's world.

Three, Jesus may have been anti-elitist, but he clearly respected authorities and even classes. He may have wanted to be charitable, and may have pointed out that earthly authorities meant essentially nothing in comparison to God's divine authority, but communist was not he.
FREEDO
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6/13/2010 9:29:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/13/2010 9:24:33 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 6/13/2010 9:18:41 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Revelation was written by John. Your point?

1. Not the same John, fyi.
2. Jesus is a King, comes down proclaiming violence, retribution and cleansing.

These are John's the twisted hallucinations about Jesus. At least this we know hasn't happened. So it says nothing about Jesus' character.

I'm not Communist.

But Communism is where everything belongs to everybody. No private property.

Bzzzt. Wrong.

Well? You gonna explain it then Mr.Know-it-all?

Three, Jesus may have been anti-elitist, but he clearly respected authorities and even classes.

Examples?
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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6/13/2010 9:33:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
You can't say anything accurate about Jesus if the Bible is your source. The only legitimate records of Jesus are found in the Gnostic Gospels.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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6/13/2010 9:34:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/13/2010 9:33:02 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
You can't say anything accurate about Jesus if the Bible is your source.
True.
The only legitimate records of Jesus are found in the Gnostic Gospels.
Unsubstantiated as far as I know.
Can you explain why?
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
GeoLaureate8
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6/13/2010 9:35:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/13/2010 9:34:54 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 6/13/2010 9:33:02 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
You can't say anything accurate about Jesus if the Bible is your source.
True.
The only legitimate records of Jesus are found in the Gnostic Gospels.
Unsubstantiated as far as I know.
Can you explain why?

http://www.debate.org...
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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6/13/2010 9:35:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/13/2010 9:29:47 PM, FREEDO wrote:
These are John's the twisted hallucinations about Jesus. At least this we know hasn't happened. So it says nothing about Jesus' character.

Now you're just cherry-picking. If Revelations, considered a prophetic, divinely-inspired book of the Bible, can be cast off as "twisted hallucinations," what credibility do you give the Gospels, exactly? Especially given the fact that they were supposedly written by the apostles...

Well? You gonna explain it then Mr.Know-it-all?

I need to go to bed, so no. But you're missing quite a few key aspects. Ones I made that you conveniently didn't copy onto this post.

Examples?

Whaddya think that "render unto Caesar" line was referring to? Jesus also gave respect to clergy and politicians of all sorts. Just Google it.
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
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6/13/2010 9:37:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/13/2010 9:13:19 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 6/13/2010 9:05:59 PM, FREEDO wrote:
He never said anything about the divine right of kings. That was Paul! This is where Christianity always crumbles.

Silly, don't you read your Bible?

http://www.biblegateway.com...

I dunno about you, but methinks Caesar is.. yes, I believe so. He's a king.

There isn't anything unanarchistic about giving to Caeser what is Caeser's, just as we should give to the proletariat what is theirs.

Jesus was opposed to force, even in retaliation.
He said to turn the other cheek and similar things.
The abolition of force is Anarchism.

Yeah.. which is why he's never had anything violent attributed to him, from his mouth.

Oh, wait: http://en.wikipedia.org...

I just had a vision that Volkov barbecued a baby. Therefore, Volkov is in actuality violent and unanarchistic.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Reasoning
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6/13/2010 9:38:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/13/2010 9:35:50 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I also read other of Marx' works, as well as that of Engels.

Marx was a true revolutionary. Engels was a bourgeios spy.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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6/13/2010 9:39:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/13/2010 9:38:48 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 6/13/2010 9:35:50 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I also read other of Marx' works, as well as that of Engels.

Marx was a true revolutionary. Engels was a bourgeios spy.

Lol.
Reasoning
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6/13/2010 9:42:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/13/2010 9:35:57 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 6/13/2010 9:29:47 PM, FREEDO wrote:
These are John's the twisted hallucinations about Jesus. At least this we know hasn't happened. So it says nothing about Jesus' character.

Now you're just cherry-picking. If Revelations, considered a prophetic, divinely-inspired book of the Bible, can be cast off as "twisted hallucinations," what credibility do you give the Gospels, exactly? Especially given the fact that they were supposedly written by the apostles...

FREEDO isn't a Christian. He is referring to the historical Jesus, he does not believe that jesus is the son of God nor that the Bible is divinely-inspired.

Examples?

Whaddya think that "render unto Caesar" line was referring to?

Giving to people what is theirs unanarchistic now?

The idea that Jesus was an anarchist isn't anything new to FREEDO. Have you ever heard of someone named Leo Tolstoy?
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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6/13/2010 9:42:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/13/2010 9:41:15 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
I am a Christian again, guys.

Why? What convinced you back?
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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6/13/2010 9:42:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/13/2010 9:38:48 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 6/13/2010 9:35:50 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I also read other of Marx' works, as well as that of Engels.

Marx was a true revolutionary. Engels was a bourgeios spy.

Proof. Unless you're joking.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light