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Ways to Improve the Religion Forum

TrueScotsman
Posts: 515
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1/6/2015 7:46:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Hi Everyone,

It's another thread about ways to improve the Religion Forum on this site! I'm hoping that this thread itself will be a model for what it should be, and will note below my own suggestions.

Ways to Improve the Religion Forum:

1. Stop feeding the trolls and preachers. If this is followed, then this forum would improve instantly. There are far too many troll threads and posters on this forum. There is no need to ban these people, as more would simply take their place, the best solution is simply to use self-control and not respond to their long diatribes.

2. Lose the Ad Hominems. So much of the reason why my participation on this forum is limited is due to the rampant personal attacks that take place here. This level of dialogue makes serious posters such as myself want to stay away, rather than contribute when there is likely some verbal barrage that will be sent your way for stating disagreement.

3. Respect other people's views. At the end of the day, you're likely not going to convince the other person, so you should simply get over that. Discuss to learn and enjoy the exchange, don't post with intentions of converting everyone to your religion or ideology.

4. Create threads that will lead to constructive conversation. Don't make disingenuous threads, or threads that are meant to antagonize those who disagree with you. Create threads that promote mutual conversation, and if you create it, do you best to keep the conversation going and on topic.

5. Actively Participate. If you are a well-meaning poster, who longs to improve the forum, then you need to start participating a bit more. Contribute to the conversation, and discuss ideas not persons. If we had quality posters in this forum participating, and they made the determination to not feed the trolls and preachers, then this forum could really be quality.

I personally want to frequent this forum more, as I have a pretty extensive education as regards religious issues and would like to contribute. However, myself and other serious posters like myself can only make this a worthwhile place to participate if we work together.

So let's discuss (unless you're a troll or preacher), what do you think we can do to improve this forum. And... better yet... how can we implement the good ideas we have to the common poster?

Best Regards,
TrueScotsman
bulproof
Posts: 25,255
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1/6/2015 7:56:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 7:46:25 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
Hi Everyone,

It's another thread about ways to improve the Religion Forum on this site! I'm hoping that this thread itself will be a model for what it should be, and will note below my own suggestions.

Ways to Improve the Religion Forum:

1. Stop feeding the trolls and preachers.
But you are a troll by the definition of a troll on this forum. ie someone who disagrees with you.

2. Lose the Ad Hominems.</strong
Anything that conflicts with your opinion of yourself is an ad hom.

3. Respect other people's views.
No matter how idiotic they are.
4. Create threads that will lead to constructive conversation.
Any thread that a godbotherer is insulted by is not constructive. Anything treating religious views for what they are is not productive.

5. Actively Participate.
As long as you don't prove the absurdity of religion you are actively participating.
I personally want to frequent this forum more, as I have a pretty extensive education as regards religious issues and would like to contribute. However, myself and other serious posters like myself can only make this a worthwhile place to participate if we work together.
That's because you have no support for your beliefs and become upset when such is proven to you.
So let's discuss (unless you're a troll or preacher), what do you think we can do to improve this forum. And... better yet... how can we implement the good ideas we have to the common poster?
What good ideas do you think believers have? Because atheists prove their views invalid on every occasion.
Best Regards,
TrueScotsman
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Jayhawker_Soule
Posts: 169
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1/6/2015 8:20:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 7:46:25 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
Hi Everyone,

It's another thread about ways to improve the Religion Forum on this site! I'm hoping that this thread itself will be a model for what it should be, and will note below my own suggestions.

Ways to Improve the Religion Forum:

1. Stop feeding the trolls and preachers. If this is followed, then this forum would improve instantly. There are far too many troll threads and posters on this forum. There is no need to ban these people, as more would simply take their place, the best solution is simply to use self-control and not respond to their long diatribes.

2. Lose the Ad Hominems. So much of the reason why my participation on this forum is limited is due to the rampant personal attacks that take place here. This level of dialogue makes serious posters such as myself want to stay away, rather than contribute when there is likely some verbal barrage that will be sent your way for stating disagreement.

3. Respect other people's views. At the end of the day, you're likely not going to convince the other person, so you should simply get over that. Discuss to learn and enjoy the exchange, don't post with intentions of converting everyone to your religion or ideology.

4. Create threads that will lead to constructive conversation. Don't make disingenuous threads, or threads that are meant to antagonize those who disagree with you. Create threads that promote mutual conversation, and if you create it, do you best to keep the conversation going and on topic.

5. Actively Participate. If you are a well-meaning poster, who longs to improve the forum, then you need to start participating a bit more. Contribute to the conversation, and discuss ideas not persons. If we had quality posters in this forum participating, and they made the determination to not feed the trolls and preachers, then this forum could really be quality.

I personally want to frequent this forum more, as I have a pretty extensive education as regards religious issues and would like to contribute. However, myself and other serious posters like myself can only make this a worthwhile place to participate if we work together.

So let's discuss (unless you're a troll or preacher), what do you think we can do to improve this forum. And... better yet... how can we implement the good ideas we have to the common poster?

Best Regards,
TrueScotsman

Good post.
TrueScotsman
Posts: 515
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1/6/2015 8:35:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 8:20:42 AM, Jayhawker_Soule wrote:
At 1/6/2015 7:46:25 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
Hi Everyone,

It's another thread about ways to improve the Religion Forum on this site! I'm hoping that this thread itself will be a model for what it should be, and will note below my own suggestions.

Ways to Improve the Religion Forum:

1. Stop feeding the trolls and preachers. If this is followed, then this forum would improve instantly. There are far too many troll threads and posters on this forum. There is no need to ban these people, as more would simply take their place, the best solution is simply to use self-control and not respond to their long diatribes.

2. Lose the Ad Hominems. So much of the reason why my participation on this forum is limited is due to the rampant personal attacks that take place here. This level of dialogue makes serious posters such as myself want to stay away, rather than contribute when there is likely some verbal barrage that will be sent your way for stating disagreement.

3. Respect other people's views. At the end of the day, you're likely not going to convince the other person, so you should simply get over that. Discuss to learn and enjoy the exchange, don't post with intentions of converting everyone to your religion or ideology.

4. Create threads that will lead to constructive conversation. Don't make disingenuous threads, or threads that are meant to antagonize those who disagree with you. Create threads that promote mutual conversation, and if you create it, do you best to keep the conversation going and on topic.

5. Actively Participate. If you are a well-meaning poster, who longs to improve the forum, then you need to start participating a bit more. Contribute to the conversation, and discuss ideas not persons. If we had quality posters in this forum participating, and they made the determination to not feed the trolls and preachers, then this forum could really be quality.

I personally want to frequent this forum more, as I have a pretty extensive education as regards religious issues and would like to contribute. However, myself and other serious posters like myself can only make this a worthwhile place to participate if we work together.

So let's discuss (unless you're a troll or preacher), what do you think we can do to improve this forum. And... better yet... how can we implement the good ideas we have to the common poster?

Best Regards,
TrueScotsman

Good post.

Thanks for the feedback!
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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1/6/2015 8:45:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 7:46:25 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
Hi Everyone,

It's another thread about ways to improve the Religion Forum on this site! I'm hoping that this thread itself will be a model for what it should be, and will note below my own suggestions.

Ways to Improve the Religion Forum:

1. Stop feeding the trolls and preachers. If this is followed, then this forum would improve instantly. There are far too many troll threads and posters on this forum. There is no need to ban these people, as more would simply take their place, the best solution is simply to use self-control and not respond to their long diatribes.

If we do that, only trolls and preachers will speak. That is not the purpose of a discussion forum.

2. Lose the Ad Hominems. So much of the reason why my participation on this forum is limited is due to the rampant personal attacks that take place here. This level of dialogue makes serious posters such as myself want to stay away, rather than contribute when there is likely some verbal barrage that will be sent your way for stating disagreement.


If I don't agree that's someone's beliefs are sacred and untouchable, that becomes to them a personal attack, not and ad hominem. I have never called a person stupid, but I have pointed out that their beliefs were nonsensical. That is an attack on a belief, not a person.

3. Respect other people's views. At the end of the day, you're likely not going to convince the other person, so you should simply get over that. Discuss to learn and enjoy the exchange, don't post with intentions of converting everyone to your religion or ideology.

I cannot respect views that promote misogyny, hatred, discrimination, and blood worship any more than I can respect anti-Semitism or racism.

4. Create threads that will lead to constructive conversation. Don't make disingenuous threads, or threads that are meant to antagonize those who disagree with you. Create threads that promote mutual conversation, and if you create it, do you best to keep the conversation going and on topic.

I don't generally create threads since there are plenty of them already.

5. Actively Participate. If you are a well-meaning poster, who longs to improve the forum, then you need to start participating a bit more. Contribute to the conversation, and discuss ideas not persons. If we had quality posters in this forum participating, and they made the determination to not feed the trolls and preachers, then this forum could really be quality.

I participate when I have something on topic to say. I will occasionally get snarky with someone and if I overstep, I will apologize.

I personally want to frequent this forum more, as I have a pretty extensive education as regards religious issues and would like to contribute. However, myself and other serious posters like myself can only make this a worthwhile place to participate if we work together.

Happy to work together until someone calls me evil or immoral or any other insult because I don't believe as they do.

So let's discuss (unless you're a troll or preacher), what do you think we can do to improve this forum. And... better yet... how can we implement the good ideas we have to the common poster?

Best Regards,
TrueScotsman
TrueScotsman
Posts: 515
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1/6/2015 9:10:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 8:45:00 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 1/6/2015 7:46:25 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
Hi Everyone,

It's another thread about ways to improve the Religion Forum on this site! I'm hoping that this thread itself will be a model for what it should be, and will note below my own suggestions.

Ways to Improve the Religion Forum:

1. Stop feeding the trolls and preachers. If this is followed, then this forum would improve instantly. There are far too many troll threads and posters on this forum. There is no need to ban these people, as more would simply take their place, the best solution is simply to use self-control and not respond to their long diatribes.

If we do that, only trolls and preachers will speak. That is not the purpose of a discussion forum.

I disagree, sure they might still post, but I bet you it would be far less if they were never replied to. They would likely go somewhere else. The preachers probably wouldn't, but the trolls probably would as no one would be responding to them anymore.


2. Lose the Ad Hominems. So much of the reason why my participation on this forum is limited is due to the rampant personal attacks that take place here. This level of dialogue makes serious posters such as myself want to stay away, rather than contribute when there is likely some verbal barrage that will be sent your way for stating disagreement.


If I don't agree that's someone's beliefs are sacred and untouchable, that becomes to them a personal attack, not and ad hominem. I have never called a person stupid, but I have pointed out that their beliefs were nonsensical. That is an attack on a belief, not a person.


There is a way to express disagreement, and yet do so in a way that respects and values the other person you are addressing. Tact and patience are necessary, and this I believe is paramount to us improving this forum.

True some people interpret what we say as insults, when really there was no personal attack intended, but we should be sure to clarify that as best we can.

3. Respect other people's views. At the end of the day, you're likely not going to convince the other person, so you should simply get over that. Discuss to learn and enjoy the exchange, don't post with intentions of converting everyone to your religion or ideology.

I cannot respect views that promote misogyny, hatred, discrimination, and blood worship any more than I can respect anti-Semitism or racism.


If you cannot respect their views, then why even discuss with them? You're not going to change their minds. What do you get out of it?

4. Create threads that will lead to constructive conversation. Don't make disingenuous threads, or threads that are meant to antagonize those who disagree with you. Create threads that promote mutual conversation, and if you create it, do you best to keep the conversation going and on topic.

I don't generally create threads since there are plenty of them already.

That's fine!


5. Actively Participate. If you are a well-meaning poster, who longs to improve the forum, then you need to start participating a bit more. Contribute to the conversation, and discuss ideas not persons. If we had quality posters in this forum participating, and they made the determination to not feed the trolls and preachers, then this forum could really be quality.

I participate when I have something on topic to say. I will occasionally get snarky with someone and if I overstep, I will apologize.


Getting snarky is what derails threads, it really provides no benefit to the discussion or forum as a whole.
I personally want to frequent this forum more, as I have a pretty extensive education as regards religious issues and would like to contribute. However, myself and other serious posters like myself can only make this a worthwhile place to participate if we work together.

Happy to work together until someone calls me evil or immoral or any other insult because I don't believe as they do.

Why not ignore that insult, what good comes of retaliating?


So let's discuss (unless you're a troll or preacher), what do you think we can do to improve this forum. And... better yet... how can we implement the good ideas we have to the common poster?

Best Regards,
TrueScotsman

Thanks for your feedback!
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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1/6/2015 9:18:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 9:10:38 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:45:00 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 1/6/2015 7:46:25 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
Hi Everyone,

It's another thread about ways to improve the Religion Forum on this site! I'm hoping that this thread itself will be a model for what it should be, and will note below my own suggestions.

Ways to Improve the Religion Forum:

1. Stop feeding the trolls and preachers. If this is followed, then this forum would improve instantly. There are far too many troll threads and posters on this forum. There is no need to ban these people, as more would simply take their place, the best solution is simply to use self-control and not respond to their long diatribes.

If we do that, only trolls and preachers will speak. That is not the purpose of a discussion forum.

I disagree, sure they might still post, but I bet you it would be far less if they were never replied to. They would likely go somewhere else. The preachers probably wouldn't, but the trolls probably would as no one would be responding to them anymore.

Then you have a dead and useless forum.

2. Lose the Ad Hominems. So much of the reason why my participation on this forum is limited is due to the rampant personal attacks that take place here. This level of dialogue makes serious posters such as myself want to stay away, rather than contribute when there is likely some verbal barrage that will be sent your way for stating disagreement.


If I don't agree that's someone's beliefs are sacred and untouchable, that becomes to them a personal attack, not and ad hominem. I have never called a person stupid, but I have pointed out that their beliefs were nonsensical. That is an attack on a belief, not a person.


There is a way to express disagreement, and yet do so in a way that respects and values the other person you are addressing. Tact and patience are necessary, and this I believe is paramount to us improving this forum.

I am of the "I'll be decent to you until you're indecent to me" school of thought. When someone decides to be tactless and insulting, I will respond in kind. I never begin a post with an insult.

True some people interpret what we say as insults, when really there was no personal attack intended, but we should be sure to clarify that as best we can.

One cannot clarify if the person on the other end of the conversation cannot be rational and see the difference in questioning their belief and questioning them as a person. It's a pretty clear line but is non-existent to many.

3. Respect other people's views. At the end of the day, you're likely not going to convince the other person, so you should simply get over that. Discuss to learn and enjoy the exchange, don't post with intentions of converting everyone to your religion or ideology.

I cannot respect views that promote misogyny, hatred, discrimination, and blood worship any more than I can respect anti-Semitism or racism.


If you cannot respect their views, then why even discuss with them? You're not going to change their minds. What do you get out of it?

The hope that someone will take a look and see reason. Without that, what reason is there to talk at all.

4. Create threads that will lead to constructive conversation. Don't make disingenuous threads, or threads that are meant to antagonize those who disagree with you. Create threads that promote mutual conversation, and if you create it, do you best to keep the conversation going and on topic.

I don't generally create threads since there are plenty of them already.


That's fine!


5. Actively Participate. If you are a well-meaning poster, who longs to improve the forum, then you need to start participating a bit more. Contribute to the conversation, and discuss ideas not persons. If we had quality posters in this forum participating, and they made the determination to not feed the trolls and preachers, then this forum could really be quality.

I participate when I have something on topic to say. I will occasionally get snarky with someone and if I overstep, I will apologize.


Getting snarky is what derails threads, it really provides no benefit to the discussion or forum as a whole.

Agreed, and I have apologize to both the individual I was speaking to and the participants of the thread when I have let it happen. I am generally reasonable but I do have some strong opinions and I am human enough to let them sometimes get ahead of my manners.

I personally want to frequent this forum more, as I have a pretty extensive education as regards religious issues and would like to contribute. However, myself and other serious posters like myself can only make this a worthwhile place to participate if we work together.

Happy to work together until someone calls me evil or immoral or any other insult because I don't believe as they do.

Why not ignore that insult, what good comes of retaliating?

If I allow such things to pass it is implicitly agreeing with their statements, which I strongly oppose. It is the failure to address such issues that allows people to overbear and become even worse than they already are. It's a type of bullying and I detest all bullies.

So let's discuss (unless you're a troll or preacher), what do you think we can do to improve this forum. And... better yet... how can we implement the good ideas we have to the common poster?

Best Regards,
TrueScotsman

Thanks for your feedback!
TrueScotsman
Posts: 515
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1/6/2015 9:28:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 9:18:39 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 1/6/2015 9:10:38 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:45:00 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 1/6/2015 7:46:25 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
Hi Everyone,

It's another thread about ways to improve the Religion Forum on this site! I'm hoping that this thread itself will be a model for what it should be, and will note below my own suggestions.

Ways to Improve the Religion Forum:

1. Stop feeding the trolls and preachers. If this is followed, then this forum would improve instantly. There are far too many troll threads and posters on this forum. There is no need to ban these people, as more would simply take their place, the best solution is simply to use self-control and not respond to their long diatribes.

If we do that, only trolls and preachers will speak. That is not the purpose of a discussion forum.

I disagree, sure they might still post, but I bet you it would be far less if they were never replied to. They would likely go somewhere else. The preachers probably wouldn't, but the trolls probably would as no one would be responding to them anymore.

Then you have a dead and useless forum.

How is it dead and useless if the people who drag down it's quality are ignored? I'm not seeing your logic.


2. Lose the Ad Hominems. So much of the reason why my participation on this forum is limited is due to the rampant personal attacks that take place here. This level of dialogue makes serious posters such as myself want to stay away, rather than contribute when there is likely some verbal barrage that will be sent your way for stating disagreement.


If I don't agree that's someone's beliefs are sacred and untouchable, that becomes to them a personal attack, not and ad hominem. I have never called a person stupid, but I have pointed out that their beliefs were nonsensical. That is an attack on a belief, not a person.


There is a way to express disagreement, and yet do so in a way that respects and values the other person you are addressing. Tact and patience are necessary, and this I believe is paramount to us improving this forum.

I am of the "I'll be decent to you until you're indecent to me" school of thought. When someone decides to be tactless and insulting, I will respond in kind. I never begin a post with an insult.


What benefit does that bring with retaliating to a stranger who personally insults you?

True some people interpret what we say as insults, when really there was no personal attack intended, but we should be sure to clarify that as best we can.

One cannot clarify if the person on the other end of the conversation cannot be rational and see the difference in questioning their belief and questioning them as a person. It's a pretty clear line but is non-existent to many.

If you don't think you can have a rational conversation with someone, then perhaps it is time to agree to disagree. There are some people who deserve your time and energy, and others who don't.


3. Respect other people's views. At the end of the day, you're likely not going to convince the other person, so you should simply get over that. Discuss to learn and enjoy the exchange, don't post with intentions of converting everyone to your religion or ideology.

I cannot respect views that promote misogyny, hatred, discrimination, and blood worship any more than I can respect anti-Semitism or racism.


If you cannot respect their views, then why even discuss with them? You're not going to change their minds. What do you get out of it?

The hope that someone will take a look and see reason. Without that, what reason is there to talk at all.

So you're hoping that someone will come along and be convinced by what you write? Generally only those who already agree with what you say will be convinced. I have never seen someone convinced of such a deep ideology on the spot, they must do some searching themselves. Though insults and other related remarks will only serve to detract from what beneficial words you have to add.


4. Create threads that will lead to constructive conversation. Don't make disingenuous threads, or threads that are meant to antagonize those who disagree with you. Create threads that promote mutual conversation, and if you create it, do you best to keep the conversation going and on topic.

I don't generally create threads since there are plenty of them already.


That's fine!


5. Actively Participate. If you are a well-meaning poster, who longs to improve the forum, then you need to start participating a bit more. Contribute to the conversation, and discuss ideas not persons. If we had quality posters in this forum participating, and they made the determination to not feed the trolls and preachers, then this forum could really be quality.

I participate when I have something on topic to say. I will occasionally get snarky with someone and if I overstep, I will apologize.


Getting snarky is what derails threads, it really provides no benefit to the discussion or forum as a whole.

Agreed, and I have apologize to both the individual I was speaking to and the participants of the thread when I have let it happen. I am generally reasonable but I do have some strong opinions and I am human enough to let them sometimes get ahead of my manners.


It's okay to be human, and it's good that you apologize. Though, I do personally think it's a problem that you believe insults should be met with more insults. Such thinking derails threads and lends nothing beneficial, not only to the conversation, but your own cognitive health.

I personally want to frequent this forum more, as I have a pretty extensive education as regards religious issues and would like to contribute. However, myself and other serious posters like myself can only make this a worthwhile place to participate if we work together.

Happy to work together until someone calls me evil or immoral or any other insult because I don't believe as they do.

Why not ignore that insult, what good comes of retaliating?

If I allow such things to pass it is implicitly agreeing with their statements, which I strongly oppose. It is the failure to address such issues that allows people to overbear and become even worse than they already are. It's a type of bullying and I detest all bullies.

So let's discuss (unless you're a troll or preacher), what do you think we can do to improve this forum. And... better yet... how can we implement the good ideas we have to the common poster?

Best Regards,
TrueScotsman

Thanks for your feedback!

Again, thanks for the feedback. Keep it coming!
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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1/6/2015 9:49:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 7:46:25 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
Hi Everyone,

It's another thread about ways to improve the Religion Forum on this site! I'm hoping that this thread itself will be a model for what it should be, and will note below my own suggestions.

Ways to Improve the Religion Forum:

1. Stop feeding the trolls and preachers. If this is followed, then this forum would improve instantly. There are far too many troll threads and posters on this forum. There is no need to ban these people, as more would simply take their place, the best solution is simply to use self-control and not respond to their long diatribes.

2. Lose the Ad Hominems. So much of the reason why my participation on this forum is limited is due to the rampant personal attacks that take place here. This level of dialogue makes serious posters such as myself want to stay away, rather than contribute when there is likely some verbal barrage that will be sent your way for stating disagreement.

3. Respect other people's views. At the end of the day, you're likely not going to convince the other person, so you should simply get over that. Discuss to learn and enjoy the exchange, don't post with intentions of converting everyone to your religion or ideology.

4. Create threads that will lead to constructive conversation. Don't make disingenuous threads, or threads that are meant to antagonize those who disagree with you. Create threads that promote mutual conversation, and if you create it, do you best to keep the conversation going and on topic.

5. Actively Participate. If you are a well-meaning poster, who longs to improve the forum, then you need to start participating a bit more. Contribute to the conversation, and discuss ideas not persons. If we had quality posters in this forum participating, and they made the determination to not feed the trolls and preachers, then this forum could really be quality.

I personally want to frequent this forum more, as I have a pretty extensive education as regards religious issues and would like to contribute. However, myself and other serious posters like myself can only make this a worthwhile place to participate if we work together.

So let's discuss (unless you're a troll or preacher), what do you think we can do to improve this forum. And... better yet... how can we implement the good ideas we have to the common poster?

Best Regards,
TrueScotsman

Questions for you:

1) How can you debate religion?
2) What is the criterion for disagreement? Reason? Faith? Emotion? If it's faith or emotion, how can you possibly resolve a disagreement, i.e. why bother debating the topic?
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
TrueScotsman
Posts: 515
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1/6/2015 9:59:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 9:49:59 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 1/6/2015 7:46:25 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
Hi Everyone,

It's another thread about ways to improve the Religion Forum on this site! I'm hoping that this thread itself will be a model for what it should be, and will note below my own suggestions.

Ways to Improve the Religion Forum:

1. Stop feeding the trolls and preachers. If this is followed, then this forum would improve instantly. There are far too many troll threads and posters on this forum. There is no need to ban these people, as more would simply take their place, the best solution is simply to use self-control and not respond to their long diatribes.

2. Lose the Ad Hominems. So much of the reason why my participation on this forum is limited is due to the rampant personal attacks that take place here. This level of dialogue makes serious posters such as myself want to stay away, rather than contribute when there is likely some verbal barrage that will be sent your way for stating disagreement.

3. Respect other people's views. At the end of the day, you're likely not going to convince the other person, so you should simply get over that. Discuss to learn and enjoy the exchange, don't post with intentions of converting everyone to your religion or ideology.

4. Create threads that will lead to constructive conversation. Don't make disingenuous threads, or threads that are meant to antagonize those who disagree with you. Create threads that promote mutual conversation, and if you create it, do you best to keep the conversation going and on topic.

5. Actively Participate. If you are a well-meaning poster, who longs to improve the forum, then you need to start participating a bit more. Contribute to the conversation, and discuss ideas not persons. If we had quality posters in this forum participating, and they made the determination to not feed the trolls and preachers, then this forum could really be quality.

I personally want to frequent this forum more, as I have a pretty extensive education as regards religious issues and would like to contribute. However, myself and other serious posters like myself can only make this a worthwhile place to participate if we work together.

So let's discuss (unless you're a troll or preacher), what do you think we can do to improve this forum. And... better yet... how can we implement the good ideas we have to the common poster?

Best Regards,
TrueScotsman

Questions for you:

1) How can you debate religion?

You simply discuss the topic at hand and opposing views are presented and analyzed, and I think that this should be done in a respectful manner.

2) What is the criterion for disagreement? Reason? Faith? Emotion? If it's faith or emotion, how can you possibly resolve a disagreement, i.e. why bother debating the topic?

Epistemology is very important to discuss in these kinds of debates, how does one determine what is knowledge and what isn't. This is a valid point of discussion, and whether or not reason, emotion, faith, etc. are applicable as justifications for beliefs.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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1/6/2015 10:21:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 9:59:14 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 1/6/2015 9:49:59 AM, wrichcirw wrote:

So let's discuss (unless you're a troll or preacher), what do you think we can do to improve this forum. And... better yet... how can we implement the good ideas we have to the common poster?

Best Regards,
TrueScotsman

Questions for you:

1) How can you debate religion?

You simply discuss the topic at hand and opposing views are presented and analyzed, and I think that this should be done in a respectful manner.

I suppose you answered this below...my next question would be "how can you analyze faith and conviction"? I take it from your response directly below that you think it's important to ascertain what can be debated and what can't be debated. Fair enough.

I'm of the opinion that any discussion of a religion on its own terms will focus on faith and conviction, neither of which is susceptible to analysis. My experiences on this forum (long before the recent spate of complaints) led me to conclude that people are inordinately stubborn about their beliefs and are far less susceptible to a reasonable argument than in other forums, which is saying a lot because most people in other forums tend to naturally dig in when faced with opposition.

I usually just ask questions here, or convey an opinion. I rarely debate the subject.

2) What is the criterion for disagreement? Reason? Faith? Emotion? If it's faith or emotion, how can you possibly resolve a disagreement, i.e. why bother debating the topic?

Epistemology is very important to discuss in these kinds of debates, how does one determine what is knowledge and what isn't. This is a valid point of discussion, and whether or not reason, emotion, faith, etc. are applicable as justifications for beliefs.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
TrueScotsman
Posts: 515
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1/6/2015 10:40:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 10:21:04 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 1/6/2015 9:59:14 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 1/6/2015 9:49:59 AM, wrichcirw wrote:

So let's discuss (unless you're a troll or preacher), what do you think we can do to improve this forum. And... better yet... how can we implement the good ideas we have to the common poster?

Best Regards,
TrueScotsman

Questions for you:

1) How can you debate religion?

You simply discuss the topic at hand and opposing views are presented and analyzed, and I think that this should be done in a respectful manner.

I suppose you answered this below...my next question would be "how can you analyze faith and conviction"? I take it from your response directly below that you think it's important to ascertain what can be debated and what can't be debated. Fair enough.


Somethings people hold as unrefutable convictions, I suppose you can try to debate that with the person, but somethings are better to just agree to disagree upon.

I'm of the opinion that any discussion of a religion on its own terms will focus on faith and conviction, neither of which is susceptible to analysis. My experiences on this forum (long before the recent spate of complaints) led me to conclude that people are inordinately stubborn about their beliefs and are far less susceptible to a reasonable argument than in other forums, which is saying a lot because most people in other forums tend to naturally dig in when faced with opposition.


If you intent is to persuade everyone you debate with, then you will be sorely disappointed, especially on matters of religion. I like to debate because I learn and love to research and hear other people's perspectives.

I usually just ask questions here, or convey an opinion. I rarely debate the subject.


That's totally fine, and that should be welcome. Insults, trolling and full on preaching should not be promoted and well-meaning users should do their best to avoid such people.

2) What is the criterion for disagreement? Reason? Faith? Emotion? If it's faith or emotion, how can you possibly resolve a disagreement, i.e. why bother debating the topic?

Epistemology is very important to discuss in these kinds of debates, how does one determine what is knowledge and what isn't. This is a valid point of discussion, and whether or not reason, emotion, faith, etc. are applicable as justifications for beliefs.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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1/6/2015 10:53:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 10:40:30 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 1/6/2015 10:21:04 AM, wrichcirw wrote:

Somethings people hold as unrefutable convictions, I suppose you can try to debate that with the person, but somethings are better to just agree to disagree upon.

I'm of the opinion that any discussion of a religion on its own terms will focus on faith and conviction, neither of which is susceptible to analysis. My experiences on this forum (long before the recent spate of complaints) led me to conclude that people are inordinately stubborn about their beliefs and are far less susceptible to a reasonable argument than in other forums, which is saying a lot because most people in other forums tend to naturally dig in when faced with opposition.


If you intent is to persuade everyone you debate with, then you will be sorely disappointed, especially on matters of religion. I like to debate because I learn and love to research and hear other people's perspectives.

To me that's less of a debate and more an exploratory discussion. I agree that the learning and exploration processes are the best part of such dialogue.

To me, the debate is a crucible, and again, I question the utility of debating religious matters.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Jayhawker_Soule
Posts: 169
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1/6/2015 10:55:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 10:21:04 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 1/6/2015 9:59:14 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 1/6/2015 9:49:59 AM, wrichcirw wrote:

So let's discuss (unless you're a troll or preacher), what do you think we can do to improve this forum. And... better yet... how can we implement the good ideas we have to the common poster?

Best Regards,
TrueScotsman

Questions for you:

1) How can you debate religion?

You simply discuss the topic at hand and opposing views are presented and analyzed, and I think that this should be done in a respectful manner.

I suppose you answered this below...my next question would be "how can you analyze faith and conviction"? I take it from your response directly below that you think it's important to ascertain what can be debated and what can't be debated. Fair enough.

I'm of the opinion that any discussion of a religion on its own terms will focus on faith and conviction, neither of which is susceptible to analysis.

There are issues of faith that do not lend themselves to debate. That does not lessen the value of informed clarification. So, for example, I can learn something about he trinity by talking with and listening to an intelligent and articulate Catholic and about abrogation by talking with and listening to an intelligent and articulate Muslim. None of this requires that I believe in the trinity or abrogation.

One thing, however, is absolutely clear: I learn nothing by crudely ridiculing Catholics and Muslims as inherently worthless.

Finally, there is value in discussing matters of fact or presumed fact.

- Was their an exodus? How does the answer inform religion?
- Was there an historical Jesus. How should the question be approached?
- Who wrote the Gospel of Matthew and when? How does the answer strengthen or undermine the credibility of that Gospel?
- etc. ...

Sadly, there seems to be very few people here interested in an intelligent discussion of such matters.

My experiences on this forum (long before the recent spate of complaints) led me to conclude that people are inordinately stubborn about their beliefs and are far less susceptible to a reasonable argument than in other forums, which is saying a lot because most people in other forums tend to naturally dig in when faced with opposition.

I agree with your assessment
TrueScotsman
Posts: 515
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1/6/2015 11:00:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 10:53:59 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 1/6/2015 10:40:30 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 1/6/2015 10:21:04 AM, wrichcirw wrote:

Somethings people hold as unrefutable convictions, I suppose you can try to debate that with the person, but somethings are better to just agree to disagree upon.

I'm of the opinion that any discussion of a religion on its own terms will focus on faith and conviction, neither of which is susceptible to analysis. My experiences on this forum (long before the recent spate of complaints) led me to conclude that people are inordinately stubborn about their beliefs and are far less susceptible to a reasonable argument than in other forums, which is saying a lot because most people in other forums tend to naturally dig in when faced with opposition.


If you intent is to persuade everyone you debate with, then you will be sorely disappointed, especially on matters of religion. I like to debate because I learn and love to research and hear other people's perspectives.

To me that's less of a debate and more an exploratory discussion. I agree that the learning and exploration processes are the best part of such dialogue.

To me, the debate is a crucible, and again, I question the utility of debating religious matters.

Debates in the other section of the forum are that way, but I suppose it is all about the manner in which one communicates his point of view and disagreements.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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1/6/2015 11:45:44 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The religious forum can be improved if members can show how religion influences modern societies in a positive or negative way. Attacking personal beliefs and faiths is counter intuitive. People will defend or rationalize their beliefs because it is core to their being and existence.
Denying contradictions in the Bible is one such example. Explanations and pastoral commentaries are offered that would make any mental contortionist blush. But they are sincere attempts to intellectualize many of the delusional aspirations of ordinary people mentioned in the bible who came from trades like carpenters and fishermen, by offering context for their messianic claims. For rational people to believe biblical characters were all puppets of God is to deny accountability for perpetrating such interpretation which by modern standards are viewed dubiously by neuroscientists.

Kathleen Taylor, Neuroscientist, Says Religious Fundamentalism Could Be Treated As A Mental Illness

Quote:
An Oxford University researcher and author specializing in neuroscience has suggested that one day religious fundamentalism may be treated as a curable mental illness.

Kathleen Taylor, who describes herself as a "science writer affiliated to the Department of Physiology, Anatomy and Genetics," made the suggestion during a presentation on brain research at the Hay Literary Festival in Wales on Wednesday.

In response to a question about the future of neuroscience, Taylor said that "One of the surprises may be to see people with certain beliefs as people who can be treated," The Times of London notes.

"Someone who has for example become radicalised to a cult ideology -- we might stop seeing that as a personal choice that they have chosen as a result of pure free will and may start treating it as some kind of mental disturbance," Taylor said. "In many ways it could be a very positive thing because there are no doubt beliefs in our society that do a heck of a lot of damage."

What if we produce studies of convicts in prison ranked by their religious affiliations to show the corrupting influences of religion that contributes to deviant behaviour. We have such a study. The study reveals that non-Christians and atheists rank low in the prison population. Catholics and Protestants make up a whopping 75% of convicts incarcerated. The study corroborates the notion that when accountability for ones actions are mitigated by religious beliefs such as justification by faith, it leads to moral decadence and criminality.

So rather than debating the validity of the scriptures and the legitimacy of the authors who biblical historical scholars have rejected as improbable and fictitious. The fact remains Christians read the Bible as it is and not as it was originally written. And what they read is what they believe shapes their beliefs, values and conduct. It is the end results that can be measured objectively. Even though neuroscientists are discovering there are behavioural patterns that are closely associated with brain scans that confirm a correlation and that someday religious fundamentalism can be treated as a curable mental illness.
Here is a study that shows some interesting correlations between Christianity and deviant behaviour in our prison population.

The Federal Bureau of Prisons does have statistics on religious
affiliations of inmates. The following are total number of
inmates per religion category:

Response Number %
---------------------------- --------
Catholic 29267 39.164%
Protestant 26162 35.008%
Muslim 5435 7.273%
American Indian 2408 3.222%
Nation 1734 2.320%
Rasta 1485 1.987%
Jewish 1325 1.773%
Church of Christ 1303 1.744%
Pentecostal 1093 1.463%
Moorish 1066 1.426%
Buddhist 882 1.180%
Jehovah Witness 665 0.890%
Adventist 621 0.831%
Orthodox 375 0.502%
Mormon 298 0.399%
Scientology 190 0.254%
Atheist 156 0.209%
Hindu 119 0.159%
Santeria 117 0.157%
Sikh 14 0.019%
Bahai 9 0.012%
Krishna 7 0.009%
---------------------------- --------
Total Known Responses 74731 100.001% (rounding to 3 digits does this)
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,623
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1/6/2015 12:00:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 7:46:25 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
Hi Everyone,

It's another thread about ways to improve the Religion Forum on this site! I'm hoping that this thread itself will be a model for what it should be, and will note below my own suggestions.

Ways to Improve the Religion Forum:

1. Stop feeding the trolls and preachers. If this is followed, then this forum would improve instantly. There are far too many troll threads and posters on this forum. There is no need to ban these people, as more would simply take their place, the best solution is simply to use self-control and not respond to their long diatribes.

2. Lose the Ad Hominems. So much of the reason why my participation on this forum is limited is due to the rampant personal attacks that take place here. This level of dialogue makes serious posters such as myself want to stay away, rather than contribute when there is likely some verbal barrage that will be sent your way for stating disagreement.

3. Respect other people's views. At the end of the day, you're likely not going to convince the other person, so you should simply get over that. Discuss to learn and enjoy the exchange, don't post with intentions of converting everyone to your religion or ideology.

4. Create threads that will lead to constructive conversation. Don't make disingenuous threads, or threads that are meant to antagonize those who disagree with you. Create threads that promote mutual conversation, and if you create it, do you best to keep the conversation going and on topic.

5. Actively Participate. If you are a well-meaning poster, who longs to improve the forum, then you need to start participating a bit more. Contribute to the conversation, and discuss ideas not persons. If we had quality posters in this forum participating, and they made the determination to not feed the trolls and preachers, then this forum could really be quality.

I personally want to frequent this forum more, as I have a pretty extensive education as regards religious issues and would like to contribute. However, myself and other serious posters like myself can only make this a worthwhile place to participate if we work together.

So let's discuss (unless you're a troll or preacher), what do you think we can do to improve this forum. And... better yet... how can we implement the good ideas we have to the common poster?

Best Regards,
TrueScotsman

While your ideas here are noble and may make people feel good, they aren't realistic, because they don't solve any problems.

Much to our chagrin of the preacher (or troll), we must not ignore or censor their hate speech, but instead, we must combat their hate speech with more speech and better ideas. They themselves, through their own volition destroy their beliefs and their institutions of faith. They do more damage to their speech when they are allowed to speak, especially when the hatred and ignorance they spew is exposed as such and everyone observes it, even their own brethren

Their views are not to be respected because their views do not respect us. And, we can show their hate speech without respecting it, as it should be. Giving them respect for their hate speech only serves to diminish the very idea of respect and where it should be placed.

Sure, ad homs and other various fallacies should be avoided, although that is sometimes difficult to do when one is dealing with hate speech and their promoters.

Yes, participate, I agree. Show the preachers that what they spew is hate speech and show just how much conflict they cause to societies and watch as they sink themselves into oblivion.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Jayhawker_Soule
Posts: 169
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1/6/2015 12:01:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 11:45:44 AM, Harikrish wrote:
The religious forum can be improved if members can show how religion influences modern societies in a positive or negative way.

^ That is simply inane.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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1/6/2015 12:08:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 12:01:19 PM, Jayhawker_Soule wrote:
At 1/6/2015 11:45:44 AM, Harikrish wrote:
The religious forum can be improved if members can show how religion influences modern societies in a positive or negative way.

^ That is simply inane.

lol, that's a telling statement about what you think of religion =)

Some would think that institutionalized religion's primary purpose is indeed to affect a society in a positive or negative fashion.

Others would think it inane to associate religion with anything in the physical world.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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1/6/2015 12:14:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 12:01:19 PM, Jayhawker_Soule wrote:
At 1/6/2015 11:45:44 AM, Harikrish wrote:
The religious forum can be improved if members can show how religion influences modern societies in a positive or negative way.

^ That is simply inane.

Why?

Does not the scriptures say to judge by results.

Matthew 7:18 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.

Are Christians not found in the study to lead the dregs in society with an incarceration rate of 75% the highest among the prison population.

Read the data again.

The Federal Bureau of Prisons does have statistics on religious
affiliations of inmates. The following are total number of
inmates per religion category:

Response Number %
---------------------------- --------
Catholic 29267 39.164%
Protestant 26162 35.008%
Muslim 5435 7.273%
American Indian 2408 3.222%
Nation 1734 2.320%
Rasta 1485 1.987%
Jewish 1325 1.773%
Church of Christ 1303 1.744%
Pentecostal 1093 1.463%
Moorish 1066 1.426%
Buddhist 882 1.180%
Jehovah Witness 665 0.890%
Adventist 621 0.831%
Orthodox 375 0.502%
Mormon 298 0.399%
Scientology 190 0.254%
Atheist 156 0.209%
Hindu 119 0.159%
Santeria 117 0.157%
Sikh 14 0.019%
Bahai 9 0.012%
Krishna 7 0.009%
---------------------------- --------
Total Known Responses 74731 100.001% (rounding to 3 digits does this)
TrueScotsman
Posts: 515
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1/6/2015 12:19:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 12:00:35 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 1/6/2015 7:46:25 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
Hi Everyone,

It's another thread about ways to improve the Religion Forum on this site! I'm hoping that this thread itself will be a model for what it should be, and will note below my own suggestions.

Ways to Improve the Religion Forum:

1. Stop feeding the trolls and preachers. If this is followed, then this forum would improve instantly. There are far too many troll threads and posters on this forum. There is no need to ban these people, as more would simply take their place, the best solution is simply to use self-control and not respond to their long diatribes.

2. Lose the Ad Hominems. So much of the reason why my participation on this forum is limited is due to the rampant personal attacks that take place here. This level of dialogue makes serious posters such as myself want to stay away, rather than contribute when there is likely some verbal barrage that will be sent your way for stating disagreement.

3. Respect other people's views. At the end of the day, you're likely not going to convince the other person, so you should simply get over that. Discuss to learn and enjoy the exchange, don't post with intentions of converting everyone to your religion or ideology.

4. Create threads that will lead to constructive conversation. Don't make disingenuous threads, or threads that are meant to antagonize those who disagree with you. Create threads that promote mutual conversation, and if you create it, do you best to keep the conversation going and on topic.

5. Actively Participate. If you are a well-meaning poster, who longs to improve the forum, then you need to start participating a bit more. Contribute to the conversation, and discuss ideas not persons. If we had quality posters in this forum participating, and they made the determination to not feed the trolls and preachers, then this forum could really be quality.

I personally want to frequent this forum more, as I have a pretty extensive education as regards religious issues and would like to contribute. However, myself and other serious posters like myself can only make this a worthwhile place to participate if we work together.

So let's discuss (unless you're a troll or preacher), what do you think we can do to improve this forum. And... better yet... how can we implement the good ideas we have to the common poster?

Best Regards,
TrueScotsman

While your ideas here are noble and may make people feel good, they aren't realistic, because they don't solve any problems.


I certainly feel they would fix about all the problems we have here.

Much to our chagrin of the preacher (or troll), we must not ignore or censor their hate speech, but instead, we must combat their hate speech with more speech and better ideas.

I personally don't see what that would accomplish? The average poster sees through the nonsense, when something is so outlandish, it doesn't require being addressed.

In other words, further response would be a waste of time, when people with relevant and more reasonable views should rather be addressed. If you want to spew hate speech and insults, then you should be ignored or removed given the moderator's discretion.

They themselves, through their own volition destroy their beliefs and their institutions of faith. They do more damage to their speech when they are allowed to speak, especially when the hatred and ignorance they spew is exposed as such and everyone observes it, even their own brethren


Many of these people likely suffer from mental issues, and attempting to reason with them is folly. Exposing such arguments is a waste of time.

Their views are not to be respected because their views do not respect us. And, we can show their hate speech without respecting it, as it should be. Giving them respect for their hate speech only serves to diminish the very idea of respect and where it should be placed.


People with such radical views should just be ignored. No fruitful discussions can be had with them.

Sure, ad homs and other various fallacies should be avoided, although that is sometimes difficult to do when one is dealing with hate speech and their promoters.


Hence, it is better to just ignore them.

Yes, participate, I agree. Show the preachers that what they spew is hate speech and show just how much conflict they cause to societies and watch as they sink themselves into oblivion.

If you like to just spend time wasted on people who are either completely delusional or mentally ill than that's your thing. I for one, will not promote such fruitless discussion.
Jayhawker_Soule
Posts: 169
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1/6/2015 12:39:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 12:08:12 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 1/6/2015 12:01:19 PM, Jayhawker_Soule wrote:
At 1/6/2015 11:45:44 AM, Harikrish wrote:
The religious forum can be improved if members can show how religion influences modern societies in a positive or negative way.

^ That is simply inane.

lol, that's a telling statement about what you think of religion =)

Not in the least. The problem here as I see it is not what members can or cannot show, but how what they show is treated.
Jayhawker_Soule
Posts: 169
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1/6/2015 12:44:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 12:14:39 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 1/6/2015 12:01:19 PM, Jayhawker_Soule wrote:
At 1/6/2015 11:45:44 AM, Harikrish wrote:
The religious forum can be improved if members can show how religion influences modern societies in a positive or negative way.

^ That is simply inane.

Why?

Does not the scriptures say to judge by results.


Again, the problem is not topic but attitude.

Parenthetically, what 'scripture' may or may not say is of no import to those who do not see 'scripture' as authoritative. Arguments of the form "X is true because Matthews says "" are not arguments, they are sermons.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,623
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1/6/2015 12:48:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 12:19:47 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 1/6/2015 12:00:35 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 1/6/2015 7:46:25 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
Hi Everyone,

It's another thread about ways to improve the Religion Forum on this site! I'm hoping that this thread itself will be a model for what it should be, and will note below my own suggestions.

Ways to Improve the Religion Forum:

1. Stop feeding the trolls and preachers. If this is followed, then this forum would improve instantly. There are far too many troll threads and posters on this forum. There is no need to ban these people, as more would simply take their place, the best solution is simply to use self-control and not respond to their long diatribes.

2. Lose the Ad Hominems. So much of the reason why my participation on this forum is limited is due to the rampant personal attacks that take place here. This level of dialogue makes serious posters such as myself want to stay away, rather than contribute when there is likely some verbal barrage that will be sent your way for stating disagreement.

3. Respect other people's views. At the end of the day, you're likely not going to convince the other person, so you should simply get over that. Discuss to learn and enjoy the exchange, don't post with intentions of converting everyone to your religion or ideology.

4. Create threads that will lead to constructive conversation. Don't make disingenuous threads, or threads that are meant to antagonize those who disagree with you. Create threads that promote mutual conversation, and if you create it, do you best to keep the conversation going and on topic.

5. Actively Participate. If you are a well-meaning poster, who longs to improve the forum, then you need to start participating a bit more. Contribute to the conversation, and discuss ideas not persons. If we had quality posters in this forum participating, and they made the determination to not feed the trolls and preachers, then this forum could really be quality.

I personally want to frequent this forum more, as I have a pretty extensive education as regards religious issues and would like to contribute. However, myself and other serious posters like myself can only make this a worthwhile place to participate if we work together.

So let's discuss (unless you're a troll or preacher), what do you think we can do to improve this forum. And... better yet... how can we implement the good ideas we have to the common poster?

Best Regards,
TrueScotsman

While your ideas here are noble and may make people feel good, they aren't realistic, because they don't solve any problems.


I certainly feel they would fix about all the problems we have here.

Much to our chagrin of the preacher (or troll), we must not ignore or censor their hate speech, but instead, we must combat their hate speech with more speech and better ideas.

I personally don't see what that would accomplish? The average poster sees through the nonsense, when something is so outlandish, it doesn't require being addressed.

In other words, further response would be a waste of time, when people with relevant and more reasonable views should rather be addressed. If you want to spew hate speech and insults, then you should be ignored or removed given the moderator's discretion.

They themselves, through their own volition destroy their beliefs and their institutions of faith. They do more damage to their speech when they are allowed to speak, especially when the hatred and ignorance they spew is exposed as such and everyone observes it, even their own brethren


Many of these people likely suffer from mental issues, and attempting to reason with them is folly. Exposing such arguments is a waste of time.

Their views are not to be respected because their views do not respect us. And, we can show their hate speech without respecting it, as it should be. Giving them respect for their hate speech only serves to diminish the very idea of respect and where it should be placed.


People with such radical views should just be ignored. No fruitful discussions can be had with them.

Sure, ad homs and other various fallacies should be avoided, although that is sometimes difficult to do when one is dealing with hate speech and their promoters.


Hence, it is better to just ignore them.

Yes, participate, I agree. Show the preachers that what they spew is hate speech and show just how much conflict they cause to societies and watch as they sink themselves into oblivion.

If you like to just spend time wasted on people who are either completely delusional or mentally ill than that's your thing. I for one, will not promote such fruitless discussion.

Sorry, you feel that way, but your responses only serve to allow the problem to fester and grow.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,623
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1/6/2015 12:58:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 12:19:47 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:

If you like to just spend time wasted on people who are either completely delusional or mentally ill than that's your thing. I for one, will not promote such fruitless discussion.

Perhaps, you could take a few lessons from Pat:

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
TrueScotsman
Posts: 515
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1/6/2015 1:02:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 12:58:30 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 1/6/2015 12:19:47 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:

If you like to just spend time wasted on people who are either completely delusional or mentally ill than that's your thing. I for one, will not promote such fruitless discussion.

Perhaps, you could take a few lessons from Pat:

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

No thanks, but thank you for your feedback!
TrueScotsman
Posts: 515
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1/6/2015 1:03:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 12:48:46 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 1/6/2015 12:19:47 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 1/6/2015 12:00:35 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 1/6/2015 7:46:25 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
Hi Everyone,

It's another thread about ways to improve the Religion Forum on this site! I'm hoping that this thread itself will be a model for what it should be, and will note below my own suggestions.

Ways to Improve the Religion Forum:

1. Stop feeding the trolls and preachers. If this is followed, then this forum would improve instantly. There are far too many troll threads and posters on this forum. There is no need to ban these people, as more would simply take their place, the best solution is simply to use self-control and not respond to their long diatribes.

2. Lose the Ad Hominems. So much of the reason why my participation on this forum is limited is due to the rampant personal attacks that take place here. This level of dialogue makes serious posters such as myself want to stay away, rather than contribute when there is likely some verbal barrage that will be sent your way for stating disagreement.

3. Respect other people's views. At the end of the day, you're likely not going to convince the other person, so you should simply get over that. Discuss to learn and enjoy the exchange, don't post with intentions of converting everyone to your religion or ideology.

4. Create threads that will lead to constructive conversation. Don't make disingenuous threads, or threads that are meant to antagonize those who disagree with you. Create threads that promote mutual conversation, and if you create it, do you best to keep the conversation going and on topic.

5. Actively Participate. If you are a well-meaning poster, who longs to improve the forum, then you need to start participating a bit more. Contribute to the conversation, and discuss ideas not persons. If we had quality posters in this forum participating, and they made the determination to not feed the trolls and preachers, then this forum could really be quality.

I personally want to frequent this forum more, as I have a pretty extensive education as regards religious issues and would like to contribute. However, myself and other serious posters like myself can only make this a worthwhile place to participate if we work together.

So let's discuss (unless you're a troll or preacher), what do you think we can do to improve this forum. And... better yet... how can we implement the good ideas we have to the common poster?

Best Regards,
TrueScotsman

While your ideas here are noble and may make people feel good, they aren't realistic, because they don't solve any problems.


I certainly feel they would fix about all the problems we have here.

Much to our chagrin of the preacher (or troll), we must not ignore or censor their hate speech, but instead, we must combat their hate speech with more speech and better ideas.

I personally don't see what that would accomplish? The average poster sees through the nonsense, when something is so outlandish, it doesn't require being addressed.

In other words, further response would be a waste of time, when people with relevant and more reasonable views should rather be addressed. If you want to spew hate speech and insults, then you should be ignored or removed given the moderator's discretion.

They themselves, through their own volition destroy their beliefs and their institutions of faith. They do more damage to their speech when they are allowed to speak, especially when the hatred and ignorance they spew is exposed as such and everyone observes it, even their own brethren


Many of these people likely suffer from mental issues, and attempting to reason with them is folly. Exposing such arguments is a waste of time.

Their views are not to be respected because their views do not respect us. And, we can show their hate speech without respecting it, as it should be. Giving them respect for their hate speech only serves to diminish the very idea of respect and where it should be placed.


People with such radical views should just be ignored. No fruitful discussions can be had with them.

Sure, ad homs and other various fallacies should be avoided, although that is sometimes difficult to do when one is dealing with hate speech and their promoters.


Hence, it is better to just ignore them.

Yes, participate, I agree. Show the preachers that what they spew is hate speech and show just how much conflict they cause to societies and watch as they sink themselves into oblivion.

If you like to just spend time wasted on people who are either completely delusional or mentally ill than that's your thing. I for one, will not promote such fruitless discussion.

Sorry, you feel that way, but your responses only serve to allow the problem to fester and grow.

I suppose we will have to agree to disagree, thanks for your time!
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,623
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1/6/2015 1:05:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 1:02:42 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 1/6/2015 12:58:30 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 1/6/2015 12:19:47 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:

If you like to just spend time wasted on people who are either completely delusional or mentally ill than that's your thing. I for one, will not promote such fruitless discussion.

Perhaps, you could take a few lessons from Pat:

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

No thanks, but thank you for your feedback!

No problem, happy to oblige. I was actually hoping the OP was sincere, but I can see it is not.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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1/6/2015 1:24:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 12:44:27 PM, Jayhawker_Soule wrote:
At 1/6/2015 12:14:39 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 1/6/2015 12:01:19 PM, Jayhawker_Soule wrote:
At 1/6/2015 11:45:44 AM, Harikrish wrote:
The religious forum can be improved if members can show how religion influences modern societies in a positive or negative way.

^ That is simply inane.

Why?

Does not the scriptures say to judge by results.


Again, the problem is not topic but attitude.

Parenthetically, what 'scripture' may or may not say is of no import to those who do not see 'scripture' as authoritative. Arguments of the form "X is true because Matthews says "" are not arguments, they are sermons.

Are you saying biblical scholars are sermonizing when they challenge the accuracy and historicity of the bible by using verses from the scriptures to expose the controversies and contradictions. You have to take verses in the context it is applied.
One of the methods applied by biblical scholars is textual criticism. Simply stated much of the history cannot be reconstructed. But what you have are scriptural manuscripts that can reveal to a trained eye a wealth of information.
Don't be dismissive. That is intellectual laziness. The debate forum is just the venue to exercise scholarship.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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1/6/2015 2:02:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 12:39:07 PM, Jayhawker_Soule wrote:
At 1/6/2015 12:08:12 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 1/6/2015 12:01:19 PM, Jayhawker_Soule wrote:
At 1/6/2015 11:45:44 AM, Harikrish wrote:
The religious forum can be improved if members can show how religion influences modern societies in a positive or negative way.

^ That is simply inane.

lol, that's a telling statement about what you think of religion =)

Not in the least. The problem here as I see it is not what members can or cannot show, but how what they show is treated.

I don't think you understood my point.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?