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About the Bible...

dtaylor971
Posts: 1,907
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1/6/2015 3:42:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I am not saying it is false, I am not saying it is untrue. I have no proof, but I notice the events in the Bible correlate with ideas from ancient times, and it does not seem like it was written by an all-knowing God, or even dictated. For example...

"I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man...they are to keep silent."

In ancient times, men were generally seen as the more authoritative of the two genders. Women didn't have equal rights until recently, and those rights don't even extend to all corners of the Earth. This seems like a human preaching his beliefs to be true, not God preaching His knowledge to be true.

"All who curse father or mother shall be put to death; having cursed father or mother, their blood is upon them."

This follows with the execution rituals of the ancient times. If someone was found guilty of a heinous crime, they could be put to death. If this book was written by God, he could forsee that one day (being omnipotent) half of America would be put to death by His teachings.

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them. "

That means we should kill millions of people.

"When you buy a male Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years, but in the seventh he shall go out a free person, without debt."

This, without a doubt, promotes slavery. In ancient times, slaves were quite common and seen as normal to have in society. However, we have been enlightened in recent times that slavery is an abomination of basic human rights. Surely an all-knowing and all-loving God would not promote slavery and suffering, right?

"When a slave-owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives for a day or two, there is no punishment;"

Okay... but this promotes murder. You strike a slave with a rod and he dies immediately, that's murder. You strike a slave with a rod, but he survives for two days, then succumbs to the injuries the rod inflicted on him, that's OK?

Allright... it is morally permissible to go out, buy a slave, and beat him with a rod. But I beat him gentle enough so that he survives for two days so I can be forgiven. My wife founds out I killed someone, but she doesn't tell anyone because she has no authority over me.

"Also that the women should dress themselves modestly and decently in suitable clothing, not with their hair braided, or with gold, pearls, or expensive clothes...let the woman learn in silence with full submission."

So, now we have to teach a bunch of women (silently) that they cannot buy expensive clothes. Even better, let's teach them in tuxedos and male earrings. With our brand new Ferrari sitting out in the driveway.

I don't know if God is real. He very well might be, but I can't accept the Bible is His word.
"I don't know why gays want to marry, I have spent the last 25 years wishing I wasn't allowed to." -Sadolite
Jayhawker_Soule
Posts: 169
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1/6/2015 3:48:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 3:42:50 PM, dtaylor971 wrote:
I don't know if God is real. He very well might be, but I can't accept the Bible is His word.

OK.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,011
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1/6/2015 4:06:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 3:42:50 PM, dtaylor971 wrote:
I am not saying it is false, I am not saying it is untrue. I have no proof, but I notice the events in the Bible correlate with ideas from ancient times, and it does not seem like it was written by an all-knowing God, or even dictated. For example...

"I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man...they are to keep silent."

In ancient times, men were generally seen as the more authoritative of the two genders. Women didn't have equal rights until recently, and those rights don't even extend to all corners of the Earth. This seems like a human preaching his beliefs to be true, not God preaching His knowledge to be true.

"All who curse father or mother shall be put to death; having cursed father or mother, their blood is upon them."

This follows with the execution rituals of the ancient times. If someone was found guilty of a heinous crime, they could be put to death. If this book was written by God, he could forsee that one day (being omnipotent) half of America would be put to death by His teachings.

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them. "

That means we should kill millions of people.

"When you buy a male Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years, but in the seventh he shall go out a free person, without debt."

This, without a doubt, promotes slavery. In ancient times, slaves were quite common and seen as normal to have in society. However, we have been enlightened in recent times that slavery is an abomination of basic human rights. Surely an all-knowing and all-loving God would not promote slavery and suffering, right?

"When a slave-owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives for a day or two, there is no punishment;"

Okay... but this promotes murder. You strike a slave with a rod and he dies immediately, that's murder. You strike a slave with a rod, but he survives for two days, then succumbs to the injuries the rod inflicted on him, that's OK?

Allright... it is morally permissible to go out, buy a slave, and beat him with a rod. But I beat him gentle enough so that he survives for two days so I can be forgiven. My wife founds out I killed someone, but she doesn't tell anyone because she has no authority over me.

"Also that the women should dress themselves modestly and decently in suitable clothing, not with their hair braided, or with gold, pearls, or expensive clothes...let the woman learn in silence with full submission."

So, now we have to teach a bunch of women (silently) that they cannot buy expensive clothes. Even better, let's teach them in tuxedos and male earrings. With our brand new Ferrari sitting out in the driveway.

I don't know if God is real. He very well might be, but I can't accept the Bible is His word.

You have made a great case for rational thinking and common sense. But religious fundamentalists are not easily persuaded by rationalism. Jesus was a carpenter's son with messianic aspirations bordering on delusion. He almost convinced everyone till he failed to climb down the cross he was hung on. Dang, those Romans nailed him to it!!!
Jayhawker_Soule
Posts: 169
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1/6/2015 4:28:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 4:06:14 PM, Harikrish wrote: Jesus was a carpenter's son with messianic aspirations bordering on delusion. He almost convinced everyone till he failed to climb down the cross he was hung on. Dang, those Romans nailed him to it!!!

It seems to me that you claim to know a good deal more than you know.
heart_of_the_matter
Posts: 408
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1/6/2015 10:36:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 3:42:50 PM, dtaylor971 wrote:
I am not saying it is false, I am not saying it is untrue. I have no proof, but I notice the events in the Bible correlate with ideas from ancient times, and it does not seem like it was written by an all-knowing God, or even dictated. For example...

"I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man...they are to keep silent."

In ancient times, men were generally seen as the more authoritative of the two genders. Women didn't have equal rights until recently, and those rights don't even extend to all corners of the Earth. This seems like a human preaching his beliefs to be true, not God preaching His knowledge to be true.

"All who curse father or mother shall be put to death; having cursed father or mother, their blood is upon them."

This follows with the execution rituals of the ancient times. If someone was found guilty of a heinous crime, they could be put to death. If this book was written by God, he could forsee that one day (being omnipotent) half of America would be put to death by His teachings.

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them. "

That means we should kill millions of people.

"When you buy a male Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years, but in the seventh he shall go out a free person, without debt."

This, without a doubt, promotes slavery. In ancient times, slaves were quite common and seen as normal to have in society. However, we have been enlightened in recent times that slavery is an abomination of basic human rights. Surely an all-knowing and all-loving God would not promote slavery and suffering, right?

"When a slave-owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives for a day or two, there is no punishment;"

Okay... but this promotes murder. You strike a slave with a rod and he dies immediately, that's murder. You strike a slave with a rod, but he survives for two days, then succumbs to the injuries the rod inflicted on him, that's OK?

Allright... it is morally permissible to go out, buy a slave, and beat him with a rod. But I beat him gentle enough so that he survives for two days so I can be forgiven. My wife founds out I killed someone, but she doesn't tell anyone because she has no authority over me.

"Also that the women should dress themselves modestly and decently in suitable clothing, not with their hair braided, or with gold, pearls, or expensive clothes...let the woman learn in silence with full submission."

So, now we have to teach a bunch of women (silently) that they cannot buy expensive clothes. Even better, let's teach them in tuxedos and male earrings. With our brand new Ferrari sitting out in the driveway.

I don't know if God is real. He very well might be, but I can't accept the Bible is His word.

You bring up some good and interesting questions...which I actually believe DO have good answers, although for now I will leave that to the apologetics websites for you to look at for further information (if you decide to look for evidences on the others side..that those verses could very well be true...)

A couple quick ideas though: if God was 'for' slavery why did he PERSONALLY free the Israelites? (who were slaves of the Egyptians)

Also slaves in ancient times if I am not mistaken had other privileges...such as they could OWN LAND... it was a different kind of slavery...as I am finishing up working my 12 hours of work today at my second job...having a huge mortgage (not owning the land) and having about 50k in debt...I wonder how free I/we actually are vs. our level of slavery....I think slaves could perhaps work extra in their 'time off' and even buy their freedom eventually (I remember reading that happening in the book 'the richest man in Babylon'.

As far as homosexuality and the law of chastity...the law of chastity is still an eternal law...the ability to create life is not a toy and has strict conditions on its use...
those who don't repent of sexual sin, will not be able to inherit the kingdom of God (ie. not able to attain eternal life)...so whether they live or die in this life is actually a small matter when considering the things of eternity...but if in the Old Testament it actually prompted some people to not engage in the practice, perhaps it saved some eternal lives...which are much more valuable, since everyone is going to die temporally anyway...eventually.

The prophets of the Bible were giving direction to the people who lived at that time and it was adjusted to their circumstances...There were prophets in the Bible over a span of from about 4000 BC to 500AD (?)...in the Old Testament --the rules and laws were 'types' of Christ...foreshadowing the Savior Jesus Christ...the Israelites were a stiffnecked people...so they were given the lower law (if you recall Moses destroyed the tablets with the higher law ---they were not ready for them at that time)...In the New Testament the prophets preach of Jesus Christ and how the law of Moses had been fulfilled and transcended...There are truths and commandment which had been taught in the past that still were/are relevant though, so those continued to be taught (ex: 10 Commandments) but things such as animal sacrifice and such were stopped. In other words the prophets living that that time in the New Testament taught different things...things relevant to the people alive then. This is already long...but I will add in the essential knowledge that it is important to know that God does have a living prophet and apostles also for us living at this time!...and they teach the important things we need to know as we live in this Final Dispensation of the Gospel.

anyway, just a couple ideas that came to my mind for you to read...
ethang5
Posts: 4,117
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1/9/2015 8:41:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 3:42:50 PM, dtaylor971 wrote:
I am not saying it is false, I am not saying it is untrue. I have no proof, but I notice the events in the Bible correlate with ideas from ancient times, and it does not seem like it was written by an all-knowing God, or even dictated. For example...

"I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man...they are to keep silent."

In ancient times, men were generally seen as the more authoritative of the two genders. Women didn't have equal rights until recently, and those rights don't even extend to all corners of the Earth. This seems like a human preaching his beliefs to be true, not God preaching His knowledge to be true.

You are operating from a position of ignorance. Not to insult you, but the verse you quoted above was an incomplete quote. Did you know that? The complete verse actually isn't "against" women or their rights at all.

"All who curse father or mother shall be put to death; having cursed father or mother, their blood is upon them."

This follows with the execution rituals of the ancient times. If someone was found guilty of a heinous crime, they could be put to death. If this book was written by God, he could forsee that one day (being omnipotent) half of America would be put to death by His teachings.

You simply aren't thinking. During WWII, laws prohibited citizens of London, under threat of imprisonment, from making any lights after dark. This was to make it harder for German bombers to find and bomb the city.

How would you view a question now that asked, "If this law was written by a democratic government, could they not forsee that one day (being logical) half of America would be put in prison by this regulation?"

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them. "

That means we should kill millions of people.

Why would you think so? You've assumed something. We can't see inside your head. What is it you have assumed?

"When you buy a male Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years, but in the seventh he shall go out a free person, without debt."

This, without a doubt, promotes slavery. In ancient times, slaves were quite common and seen as normal to have in society. However, we have been enlightened in recent times that slavery is an abomination of basic human rights. Surely an all-knowing and all-loving God would not promote slavery and suffering, right?

Without a doubt? Your bar for doubt is so low it's touching the ground. This verse has nothing to do with slavery. Remember that the Bible is a translation from another language made very many years ago. Today, when we read in a 200 year old document that "He was gay", we know it doesn't mean, "He was homosexual" The meaning of the word has changed. The verse is not talking about slaves, it is talking about indentured servants. "Slave" is just an evocative word for Americans.

"When a slave-owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives for a day or two, there is no punishment;"

Okay... but this promotes murder. You strike a slave with a rod and he dies immediately, that's murder. You strike a slave with a rod, but he survives for two days, then succumbs to the injuries the rod inflicted on him, that's OK?

Ok now, we're beginning to see that you aren't being honest. The verse does not say, "succumbs to the injuries the rod inflicted on him." You added that in and it exposes your bias. The verse is to protect against someone being blamed for a death simply because someone assumes a connection between a strike 2 (or more) days earlier and a death.

Allright... it is morally permissible to go out, buy a slave, and beat him with a rod. But I beat him gentle enough so that he survives for two days so I can be forgiven.

You can beat someone so that he survives for two days? Neat trick. In Bible times, you did not "buy" a slave like they did in the old US south. You found people with debts and paid it off so that they had to work it off by working for you. You did not own the person, he simply owed you a debt. So, why would a person pay off a debt, and then kill the only person who could relieve them of that debt?

"Also that the women should dress themselves modestly and decently in suitable clothing, not with their hair braided, or with gold, pearls, or expensive clothes...let the woman learn in silence with full submission."

So, now we have to teach a bunch of women (silently) that they cannot buy expensive clothes. Even better, let's teach them in tuxedos and male earrings. With our brand new Ferrari sitting out in the driveway.

I knew you couldn't keep up the pretense of being logical and honest for long. It's almost as if railing at God is a psychological addiction for militant atheists.

I don't know if God is real.

Then you aren't an atheist. Are you a militant agnostic?

He very well might be, but I can't accept the Bible is His word.

And as long as you keep hacking at it with your cutlass of illogic, it will continue to you to be unacceptable.

Serendipitous huh?
Clovis
Posts: 191
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1/9/2015 12:45:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 3:42:50 PM, dtaylor971 wrote:
I am not saying it is false, I am not saying it is untrue. I have no proof, but I notice the events in the Bible correlate with ideas from ancient times, and it does not seem like it was written by an all-knowing God, or even dictated. For example...

"I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man...they are to keep silent."

In ancient times, men were generally seen as the more authoritative of the two genders. Women didn't have equal rights until recently, and those rights don't even extend to all corners of the Earth. This seems like a human preaching his beliefs to be true, not God preaching His knowledge to be true.

"All who curse father or mother shall be put to death; having cursed father or mother, their blood is upon them."

This follows with the execution rituals of the ancient times. If someone was found guilty of a heinous crime, they could be put to death. If this book was written by God, he could forsee that one day (being omnipotent) half of America would be put to death by His teachings.

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them. "

That means we should kill millions of people.

"When you buy a male Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years, but in the seventh he shall go out a free person, without debt."

This, without a doubt, promotes slavery. In ancient times, slaves were quite common and seen as normal to have in society. However, we have been enlightened in recent times that slavery is an abomination of basic human rights. Surely an all-knowing and all-loving God would not promote slavery and suffering, right?

"When a slave-owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives for a day or two, there is no punishment;"

Okay... but this promotes murder. You strike a slave with a rod and he dies immediately, that's murder. You strike a slave with a rod, but he survives for two days, then succumbs to the injuries the rod inflicted on him, that's OK?

Allright... it is morally permissible to go out, buy a slave, and beat him with a rod. But I beat him gentle enough so that he survives for two days so I can be forgiven. My wife founds out I killed someone, but she doesn't tell anyone because she has no authority over me.

"Also that the women should dress themselves modestly and decently in suitable clothing, not with their hair braided, or with gold, pearls, or expensive clothes...let the woman learn in silence with full submission."

So, now we have to teach a bunch of women (silently) that they cannot buy expensive clothes. Even better, let's teach them in tuxedos and male earrings. With our brand new Ferrari sitting out in the driveway.

I don't know if God is real. He very well might be, but I can't accept the Bible is His word.

God did not write the Bible. No one will claim that (or at least no one I know would). The claim is that the Bible is divinely inspired, meaning the truths, ideas and laws etc were empressed upon man and then man wrote the Bible. The Bible is indisputedly written by men but we have to trust that they were holy men who were writing the correct things that were indeed passed from God.

Next, I want to point out a common misconception regarding the Old Testament vs. The New Testament. If you are a Christian, then you should take your rules and laws for living from the New Testament. The Old Testament was written in another time and another place for another people. Gentiles and nonbelievers were never supposed to or called to follow the Old Testament. The Old Testament is for those of the Jewish faith primarily and ancient Jews besides.

Our rules and laws come from The New Testament in passages such as the Sermon on the Mount and the teachings of Paul which do not subscribe to the more extreme lines that are predominatly cherry-picked from the Old Testament and dragged nearly 5000 years into the future by skeptics and atheists.
Words are wind.

A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies. The man who never reads lives only one.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,011
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1/9/2015 12:59:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 4:28:05 PM, Jayhawker_Soule wrote:
At 1/6/2015 4:06:14 PM, Harikrish wrote: Jesus was a carpenter's son with messianic aspirations bordering on delusion. He almost convinced everyone till he failed to climb down the cross he was hung on. Dang, those Romans nailed him to it!!!

It seems to me that you claim to know a good deal more than you know.

Even Houdini could not have climbed down the cross if he was nailed to it.
dtaylor971
Posts: 1,907
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1/9/2015 3:08:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/9/2015 12:45:19 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 3:42:50 PM, dtaylor971 wrote:
I am not saying it is false, I am not saying it is untrue. I have no proof, but I notice the events in the Bible correlate with ideas from ancient times, and it does not seem like it was written by an all-knowing God, or even dictated. For example...

"I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man...they are to keep silent."

In ancient times, men were generally seen as the more authoritative of the two genders. Women didn't have equal rights until recently, and those rights don't even extend to all corners of the Earth. This seems like a human preaching his beliefs to be true, not God preaching His knowledge to be true.

"All who curse father or mother shall be put to death; having cursed father or mother, their blood is upon them."

This follows with the execution rituals of the ancient times. If someone was found guilty of a heinous crime, they could be put to death. If this book was written by God, he could forsee that one day (being omnipotent) half of America would be put to death by His teachings.

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them. "

That means we should kill millions of people.

"When you buy a male Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years, but in the seventh he shall go out a free person, without debt."

This, without a doubt, promotes slavery. In ancient times, slaves were quite common and seen as normal to have in society. However, we have been enlightened in recent times that slavery is an abomination of basic human rights. Surely an all-knowing and all-loving God would not promote slavery and suffering, right?

"When a slave-owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives for a day or two, there is no punishment;"

Okay... but this promotes murder. You strike a slave with a rod and he dies immediately, that's murder. You strike a slave with a rod, but he survives for two days, then succumbs to the injuries the rod inflicted on him, that's OK?

Allright... it is morally permissible to go out, buy a slave, and beat him with a rod. But I beat him gentle enough so that he survives for two days so I can be forgiven. My wife founds out I killed someone, but she doesn't tell anyone because she has no authority over me.

"Also that the women should dress themselves modestly and decently in suitable clothing, not with their hair braided, or with gold, pearls, or expensive clothes...let the woman learn in silence with full submission."

So, now we have to teach a bunch of women (silently) that they cannot buy expensive clothes. Even better, let's teach them in tuxedos and male earrings. With our brand new Ferrari sitting out in the driveway.

I don't know if God is real. He very well might be, but I can't accept the Bible is His word.

God did not write the Bible. No one will claim that (or at least no one I know would). The claim is that the Bible is divinely inspired, meaning the truths, ideas and laws etc were empressed upon man and then man wrote the Bible. The Bible is indisputedly written by men but we have to trust that they were holy men who were writing the correct things that were indeed passed from God.

Next, I want to point out a common misconception regarding the Old Testament vs. The New Testament. If you are a Christian, then you should take your rules and laws for living from the New Testament. The Old Testament was written in another time and another place for another people. Gentiles and nonbelievers were never supposed to or called to follow the Old Testament. The Old Testament is for those of the Jewish faith primarily and ancient Jews besides.

Our rules and laws come from The New Testament in passages such as the Sermon on the Mount and the teachings of Paul which do not subscribe to the more extreme lines that are predominatly cherry-picked from the Old Testament and dragged nearly 5000 years into the future by skeptics and atheists.

That's a common argument. However, isn't that somewhat like saying God made mistakes in His words, and had to make a new testament? If the Old Testament was written by Holy People (dictating from the word of God) then it should be almost perfect- but there was essentially a replacement to better fit humanity. I'm only thirteen (and, I'll admit, have never read the Bible myself) so correct me if I'm wrong. You seem like one of the only few smart religious people on this site...
"I don't know why gays want to marry, I have spent the last 25 years wishing I wasn't allowed to." -Sadolite
Clovis
Posts: 191
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1/9/2015 4:16:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/9/2015 3:08:01 PM, dtaylor971 wrote:
At 1/9/2015 12:45:19 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 3:42:50 PM, dtaylor971 wrote:
I am not saying it is false, I am not saying it is untrue. I have no proof, but I notice the events in the Bible correlate with ideas from ancient times, and it does not seem like it was written by an all-knowing God, or even dictated. For example...

"I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man...they are to keep silent."

In ancient times, men were generally seen as the more authoritative of the two genders. Women didn't have equal rights until recently, and those rights don't even extend to all corners of the Earth. This seems like a human preaching his beliefs to be true, not God preaching His knowledge to be true.

"All who curse father or mother shall be put to death; having cursed father or mother, their blood is upon them."

This follows with the execution rituals of the ancient times. If someone was found guilty of a heinous crime, they could be put to death. If this book was written by God, he could foresee that one day (being omnipotent) half of America would be put to death by His teachings.

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them. "

That means we should kill millions of people.

"When you buy a male Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years, but in the seventh he shall go out a free person, without debt."

This, without a doubt, promotes slavery. In ancient times, slaves were quite common and seen as normal to have in society. However, we have been enlightened in recent times that slavery is an abomination of basic human rights. Surely an all-knowing and all-loving God would not promote slavery and suffering, right?

"When a slave-owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives for a day or two, there is no punishment;"

Okay... but this promotes murder. You strike a slave with a rod and he dies immediately, that's murder. You strike a slave with a rod, but he survives for two days, then succumbs to the injuries the rod inflicted on him, that's OK?

Allright... it is morally permissible to go out, buy a slave, and beat him with a rod. But I beat him gentle enough so that he survives for two days so I can be forgiven. My wife founds out I killed someone, but she doesn't tell anyone because she has no authority over me.

"Also that the women should dress themselves modestly and decently in suitable clothing, not with their hair braided, or with gold, pearls, or expensive clothes...let the woman learn in silence with full submission."

So, now we have to teach a bunch of women (silently) that they cannot buy expensive clothes. Even better, let's teach them in tuxedos and male earrings. With our brand new Ferrari sitting out in the driveway.

I don't know if God is real. He very well might be, but I can't accept the Bible is His word.

God did not write the Bible. No one will claim that (or at least no one I know would). The claim is that the Bible is divinely inspired, meaning the truths, ideas and laws etc were empressed upon man and then man wrote the Bible. The Bible is indisputably written by men but we have to trust that they were holy men who were writing the correct things that were indeed passed from God.

Next, I want to point out a common misconception regarding the Old Testament vs. The New Testament. If you are a Christian, then you should take your rules and laws for living from the New Testament. The Old Testament was written in another time and another place for another people. Gentiles and nonbelievers were never supposed to or called to follow the Old Testament. The Old Testament is for those of the Jewish faith primarily and ancient Jews besides.

Our rules and laws come from The New Testament in passages such as the Sermon on the Mount and the teachings of Paul which do not subscribe to the more extreme lines that are predominately cherry-picked from the Old Testament and dragged nearly 5000 years into the future by skeptics and atheists.

That's a common argument. However, isn't that somewhat like saying God made mistakes in His words, and had to make a new testament? If the Old Testament was written by Holy People (dictating from the word of God) then it should be almost perfect- but there was essentially a replacement to better fit humanity. I'm only thirteen (and, I'll admit, have never read the Bible myself) so correct me if I'm wrong. You seem like one of the only few smart religious people on this site...

For your last compliment I thank you! I appreciate it and I'm glad I seem to be of some intelligence.

As for your concern I would say that for the ancient Jews the teachings were almost perfect. I encourage you to do some research into some of the science behind kosher laws from the Bible and such, its incredible stuff. God knew what was best for them, they who were a disenfranchised wandering tribe of people in the Middle East around ~3000-1000BC. It was written for a very specific group of people and written well.

The New Testament is a new covenant, or agreement, between God and man but this new covenant is not just for Jews but rather for all people. God understood that he needed to rewrite the old rules and agreements because originally they were exclusively written for the Jews and when it was updated to encompass literally all of mankind some changes were in order. I hope that helps.
Words are wind.

A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies. The man who never reads lives only one.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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1/9/2015 6:04:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/9/2015 8:41:27 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 1/6/2015 3:42:50 PM, dtaylor971 wrote:
I am not saying it is false, I am not saying it is untrue. I have no proof, but I notice the events in the Bible correlate with ideas from ancient times, and it does not seem like it was written by an all-knowing God, or even dictated. For example...

"I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man...they are to keep silent."

In ancient times, men were generally seen as the more authoritative of the two genders. Women didn't have equal rights until recently, and those rights don't even extend to all corners of the Earth. This seems like a human preaching his beliefs to be true, not God preaching His knowledge to be true.

You are operating from a position of ignorance. Not to insult you, but the verse you quoted above was an incomplete quote. Did you know that? The complete verse actually isn't "against" women or their rights at all.

"All who curse father or mother shall be put to death; having cursed father or mother, their blood is upon them."

This follows with the execution rituals of the ancient times. If someone was found guilty of a heinous crime, they could be put to death. If this book was written by God, he could forsee that one day (being omnipotent) half of America would be put to death by His teachings.

You simply aren't thinking. During WWII, laws prohibited citizens of London, under threat of imprisonment, from making any lights after dark. This was to make it harder for German bombers to find and bomb the city.

How would you view a question now that asked, "If this law was written by a democratic government, could they not forsee that one day (being logical) half of America would be put in prison by this regulation?"

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them. "

That means we should kill millions of people.

Why would you think so? You've assumed something. We can't see inside your head. What is it you have assumed?

"When you buy a male Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years, but in the seventh he shall go out a free person, without debt."

This, without a doubt, promotes slavery. In ancient times, slaves were quite common and seen as normal to have in society. However, we have been enlightened in recent times that slavery is an abomination of basic human rights. Surely an all-knowing and all-loving God would not promote slavery and suffering, right?

Without a doubt? Your bar for doubt is so low it's touching the ground. This verse has nothing to do with slavery. Remember that the Bible is a translation from another language made very many years ago. Today, when we read in a 200 year old document that "He was gay", we know it doesn't mean, "He was homosexual" The meaning of the word has changed. The verse is not talking about slaves, it is talking about indentured servants. "Slave" is just an evocative word for Americans.

"When a slave-owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives for a day or two, there is no punishment;"

Okay... but this promotes murder. You strike a slave with a rod and he dies immediately, that's murder. You strike a slave with a rod, but he survives for two days, then succumbs to the injuries the rod inflicted on him, that's OK?

Ok now, we're beginning to see that you aren't being honest. The verse does not say, "succumbs to the injuries the rod inflicted on him." You added that in and it exposes your bias. The verse is to protect against someone being blamed for a death simply because someone assumes a connection between a strike 2 (or more) days earlier and a death.

Allright... it is morally permissible to go out, buy a slave, and beat him with a rod. But I beat him gentle enough so that he survives for two days so I can be forgiven.

You can beat someone so that he survives for two days? Neat trick. In Bible times, you did not "buy" a slave like they did in the old US south. You found people with debts and paid it off so that they had to work it off by working for you. You did not own the person, he simply owed you a debt. So, why would a person pay off a debt, and then kill the only person who could relieve them of that debt?

"Also that the women should dress themselves modestly and decently in suitable clothing, not with their hair braided, or with gold, pearls, or expensive clothes...let the woman learn in silence with full submission."

So, now we have to teach a bunch of women (silently) that they cannot buy expensive clothes. Even better, let's teach them in tuxedos and male earrings. With our brand new Ferrari sitting out in the driveway.

I knew you couldn't keep up the pretense of being logical and honest for long. It's almost as if railing at God is a psychological addiction for militant atheists.

I don't know if God is real.

Then you aren't an atheist. Are you a militant agnostic?

He very well might be, but I can't accept the Bible is His word.

And as long as you keep hacking at it with your cutlass of illogic, it will continue to you to be unacceptable.

Serendipitous huh?

Have you ever - even for a moment - tried to connect with the FACT that you're simply taking a man's word, who took another man's word, who took another man's word; ad nauseum, and not a single one of them had any way to know that any of it was the least bit true? Consider that.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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1/9/2015 6:33:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/9/2015 12:59:22 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 1/6/2015 4:28:05 PM, Jayhawker_Soule wrote:
At 1/6/2015 4:06:14 PM, Harikrish wrote: Jesus was a carpenter's son with messianic aspirations bordering on delusion. He almost convinced everyone till he failed to climb down the cross he was hung on. Dang, those Romans nailed him to it!!!

It seems to me that you claim to know a good deal more than you know.

Even Houdini could not have climbed down the cross if he was nailed to it.

Hypothesis Contrary to fact. meaning you imagine a scenario and then state it as evidence or a premise for your conclusion.

The only way it is not fallacious is if you can support your claim that Houdini could not escape crucifixion.