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Dear Theists/Atheists

Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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1/6/2015 4:00:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
When trying to reach out to me regarding my beliefs one should:

1. Actually address what *I* believe
2. Address the validity and soundness of what *I* believe
3. Not bother with emotional, appeals to consequences, or attempt to group my beliefs with past (undesirable) figures.

I could care less if I have the same beliefs as people who instigated the holocaust, those who have sociopathic tendencies or those who would bring anarchy.

I simply do not care how my beliefs appear in the public square, I only care about whether or not they are most likely true. That is all. If I think something is more likely true than false, then I will believe it.

Similarly, I couldn't care less what other atheist authors, popularisers, philosophers or forum posters write, they do not speak for me, I have my own reasons for believing things and I understand my beliefs are rather different to most that people would try to categorise me with.

I am pretty sure this applies to virtually any forum member here, as they will hold their own beliefs and own reasons for believing them. Stop generalising and start being more formal and direct. Please, for God's sake.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,226
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1/6/2015 6:35:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 4:00:37 PM, Envisage wrote:
When trying to reach out to me regarding my beliefs one should:

1. Actually address what *I* believe
2. Address the validity and soundness of what *I* believe
3. Not bother with emotional, appeals to consequences, or attempt to group my beliefs with past (undesirable) figures.

I could care less if I have the same beliefs as people who instigated the holocaust, those who have sociopathic tendencies or those who would bring anarchy.

I simply do not care how my beliefs appear in the public square, I only care about whether or not they are most likely true. That is all. If I think something is more likely true than false, then I will believe it.

Similarly, I couldn't care less what other atheist authors, popularisers, philosophers or forum posters write, they do not speak for me, I have my own reasons for believing things and I understand my beliefs are rather different to most that people would try to categorise me with.

I am pretty sure this applies to virtually any forum member here, as they will hold their own beliefs and own reasons for believing them. Stop generalising and start being more formal and direct. Please, for God's sake.

You never did answer my question as to what you called your "values" or as to what you place value upon and why.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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1/6/2015 6:39:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 6:35:33 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 1/6/2015 4:00:37 PM, Envisage wrote:
When trying to reach out to me regarding my beliefs one should:

1. Actually address what *I* believe
2. Address the validity and soundness of what *I* believe
3. Not bother with emotional, appeals to consequences, or attempt to group my beliefs with past (undesirable) figures.

I could care less if I have the same beliefs as people who instigated the holocaust, those who have sociopathic tendencies or those who would bring anarchy.

I simply do not care how my beliefs appear in the public square, I only care about whether or not they are most likely true. That is all. If I think something is more likely true than false, then I will believe it.

Similarly, I couldn't care less what other atheist authors, popularisers, philosophers or forum posters write, they do not speak for me, I have my own reasons for believing things and I understand my beliefs are rather different to most that people would try to categorise me with.

I am pretty sure this applies to virtually any forum member here, as they will hold their own beliefs and own reasons for believing them. Stop generalising and start being more formal and direct. Please, for God's sake.

You never did answer my question as to what you called your "values" or as to what you place value upon and why.

Mergh... I would just call them interests, or enlightened desires, or enlightened self-interest. As for why, because they are just statements of my subconscious desires with long-term and broad logic applied to them.

E.g. It's my short-term interest to have a million dollars, but it's my long-term interst not to go to jail for robbing the bank for said million dollars. Etc.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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1/6/2015 6:46:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 4:00:37 PM, Envisage wrote:
When trying to reach out to me regarding my beliefs one should:

1. Actually address what *I* believe
2. Address the validity and soundness of what *I* believe
3. Not bother with emotional, appeals to consequences, or attempt to group my beliefs with past (undesirable) figures.

I could care less if I have the same beliefs as people who instigated the holocaust, those who have sociopathic tendencies or those who would bring anarchy.

I simply do not care how my beliefs appear in the public square, I only care about whether or not they are most likely true. That is all. If I think something is more likely true than false, then I will believe it.

Similarly, I couldn't care less what other atheist authors, popularisers, philosophers or forum posters write, they do not speak for me, I have my own reasons for believing things and I understand my beliefs are rather different to most that people would try to categorise me with.

I am pretty sure this applies to virtually any forum member here, as they will hold their own beliefs and own reasons for believing them. Stop generalising and start being more formal and direct. Please, for God's sake.

haha for God's sake. How cheeky.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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1/6/2015 6:50:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 6:46:32 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 1/6/2015 4:00:37 PM, Envisage wrote:
When trying to reach out to me regarding my beliefs one should:

1. Actually address what *I* believe
2. Address the validity and soundness of what *I* believe
3. Not bother with emotional, appeals to consequences, or attempt to group my beliefs with past (undesirable) figures.

I could care less if I have the same beliefs as people who instigated the holocaust, those who have sociopathic tendencies or those who would bring anarchy.

I simply do not care how my beliefs appear in the public square, I only care about whether or not they are most likely true. That is all. If I think something is more likely true than false, then I will believe it.

Similarly, I couldn't care less what other atheist authors, popularisers, philosophers or forum posters write, they do not speak for me, I have my own reasons for believing things and I understand my beliefs are rather different to most that people would try to categorise me with.

I am pretty sure this applies to virtually any forum member here, as they will hold their own beliefs and own reasons for believing them. Stop generalising and start being more formal and direct. Please, for God's sake.

haha for God's sake. How cheeky.

Lol. I was actually thinking the phrase naturally, then I realized the implication and liked it even more, hah.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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1/6/2015 6:53:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 6:51:58 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 1/6/2015 6:39:39 PM, Envisage wrote:


So you really are a robot. Neat.

You asked question, I answered it politely and directly, you respond with an insult.

... Well thanks, I guess.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,226
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1/6/2015 6:58:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 6:53:16 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 1/6/2015 6:51:58 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 1/6/2015 6:39:39 PM, Envisage wrote:


So you really are a robot. Neat.

You asked question, I answered it politely and directly, you respond with an insult.

How can it be an insult? There is neither good nor bad, remember?
And to be fair, I levied the charge of you being a robot long before this thread.

... Well thanks, I guess.

You're welcome.
That1User
Posts: 1,064
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1/6/2015 7:01:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 4:00:37 PM, Envisage wrote:
When trying to reach out to me regarding my beliefs one should:

1. Actually address what *I* believe
2. Address the validity and soundness of what *I* believe
3. Not bother with emotional, appeals to consequences, or attempt to group my beliefs with past (undesirable) figures.

I could care less if I have the same beliefs as people who instigated the holocaust, those who have sociopathic tendencies or those who would bring anarchy.

I simply do not care how my beliefs appear in the public square, I only care about whether or not they are most likely true. That is all. If I think something is more likely true than false, then I will believe it.

Similarly, I couldn't care less what other atheist authors, popularisers, philosophers or forum posters write, they do not speak for me, I have my own reasons for believing things and I understand my beliefs are rather different to most that people would try to categorise me with.

I am pretty sure this applies to virtually any forum member here, as they will hold their own beliefs and own reasons for believing them. Stop generalising and start being more formal and direct. Please, for God's sake.

Hmm... I recall in the Hitchens-Craig debate Craig stated that he did not care about the social impact of a belief, rather that it was true or not. Let me find the quote.
"Our life is what our thoughts make it."
R13; Marcus Aurelius
"When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -Marcus Aurelius
"Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." -Voltaire
"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do. "-Voltaire
That1User
Posts: 1,064
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1/6/2015 7:02:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I found it: "Well, this is a debate, Hugh, that I don't want to get into because I think it's irrelevant. I, as a philosopher, and I mean this, am interested in the truth of these world views more than I'm interested in the social impact. And you cannot judge the truth of a world view by its social impact, that's just irrelevant." -Craig
"Our life is what our thoughts make it."
R13; Marcus Aurelius
"When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -Marcus Aurelius
"Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." -Voltaire
"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do. "-Voltaire
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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1/6/2015 7:11:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 7:02:39 PM, That1User wrote:
I found it: "Well, this is a debate, Hugh, that I don't want to get into because I think it's irrelevant. I, as a philosopher, and I mean this, am interested in the truth of these world views more than I'm interested in the social impact. And you cannot judge the truth of a world view by its social impact, that's just irrelevant." -Craig

Pretty much, yes.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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1/6/2015 7:13:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 6:58:07 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 1/6/2015 6:53:16 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 1/6/2015 6:51:58 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 1/6/2015 6:39:39 PM, Envisage wrote:


So you really are a robot. Neat.

You asked question, I answered it politely and directly, you respond with an insult.

How can it be an insult? There is neither good nor bad, remember?

Irrelevant.. The definition of an insult is amoral.

And to be fair, I levied the charge of you being a robot long before this thread.

The first sign of madness is doing the same thing and expecting different results... So stop asking me the same questions and expecting different answers. I will tell you if and when my beliefs change.

... Well thanks, I guess.

You're welcome.
That1User
Posts: 1,064
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1/6/2015 7:14:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 7:11:12 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 1/6/2015 7:02:39 PM, That1User wrote:
I found it: "Well, this is a debate, Hugh, that I don't want to get into because I think it's irrelevant. I, as a philosopher, and I mean this, am interested in the truth of these world views more than I'm interested in the social impact. And you cannot judge the truth of a world view by its social impact, that's just irrelevant." -Craig

Pretty much, yes.

On the topic of beliefs, what do you believe? I know you are a Nihilist, but nihilism is a new concept to me, and you are the first self proclaimed nihilist I have met.
"Our life is what our thoughts make it."
R13; Marcus Aurelius
"When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -Marcus Aurelius
"Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." -Voltaire
"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do. "-Voltaire
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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1/6/2015 7:24:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 7:14:17 PM, That1User wrote:
At 1/6/2015 7:11:12 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 1/6/2015 7:02:39 PM, That1User wrote:
I found it: "Well, this is a debate, Hugh, that I don't want to get into because I think it's irrelevant. I, as a philosopher, and I mean this, am interested in the truth of these world views more than I'm interested in the social impact. And you cannot judge the truth of a world view by its social impact, that's just irrelevant." -Craig

Pretty much, yes.

On the topic of beliefs, what do you believe? I know you are a Nihilist, but nihilism is a new concept to me, and you are the first self proclaimed nihilist I have met.

There are quite a few existential nihilists here but most are apathetic about it. I am not.

As my my beliefs..

Moral Non-cognitivist
Means I don't believe that 'good' or 'evil' are meaningful concepts on their own, and I await a definition before discussing them. I don't believe they are anything inherent on any level though and are just labels for certain behaviors, such as emotivism, or absurdism, etc. Thus by extension I am a moral nihilist.

Also existential nihilist for both existentialism philosophy and inherent human value.

Also epistemological non-cognitivist. I think truth is best defined in entirely incorrigable terms and thus, entirely subjectively. We work under the assumption other people come to the same axiomatic systems and hence communication is possible, which is where the confusion of 'objective truth' comes from. At least that's my current stance.

As for theology, I am a strong atheist or ignostic. I don't believe God is well-defined enough to make a belief statement, but the most common one of tri-omni intelligent God I am a strong atheist towards.
Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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1/6/2015 7:31:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 4:00:37 PM, Envisage wrote:
When trying to reach out to me regarding my beliefs one should:

1. Actually address what *I* believe
2. Address the validity and soundness of what *I* believe
3. Not bother with emotional, appeals to consequences, or attempt to group my beliefs with past (undesirable) figures.

I could care less if I have the same beliefs as people who instigated the holocaust, those who have sociopathic tendencies or those who would bring anarchy.

I simply do not care how my beliefs appear in the public square, I only care about whether or not they are most likely true. That is all. If I think something is more likely true than false, then I will believe it.

Similarly, I couldn't care less what other atheist authors, popularisers, philosophers or forum posters write, they do not speak for me, I have my own reasons for believing things and I understand my beliefs are rather different to most that people would try to categorise me with.

Thank you! Occassionally, we atheists do like to quote people like Richard Dawkins or Sam Harris or Christopher Hitchens. But this isn't always because we agree with everything they say. If we quote them, it is because we agree with the quote, and we find that those people put a position or argument we agree with more eloquently or simply than we can.

I am pretty sure this applies to virtually any forum member here, as they will hold their own beliefs and own reasons for believing them. Stop generalising and start being more formal and direct. Please, for God's sake.

Thank you! This is really annoying. I'm probably pretty guilty of this too, but I at least try to say something like 'I might be wrong, but assuming you are Catholic based on your one or two claims here...'. And if I'm wrong, they inform me. It is a real probablem with theists, because even if they are affiliated with a group, not all of their beliefs will match up. However, this is even more of a problem with atheists and unaffiliateds, because even though religious denominations have ranges in beleif, being an atheist or agnostic defines so little of your actual positions.
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved
That1User
Posts: 1,064
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1/6/2015 9:25:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 7:24:52 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 1/6/2015 7:14:17 PM, That1User wrote:
At 1/6/2015 7:11:12 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 1/6/2015 7:02:39 PM, That1User wrote:
I found it: "Well, this is a debate, Hugh, that I don't want to get into because I think it's irrelevant. I, as a philosopher, and I mean this, am interested in the truth of these world views more than I'm interested in the social impact. And you cannot judge the truth of a world view by its social impact, that's just irrelevant." -Craig

Pretty much, yes.

On the topic of beliefs, what do you believe? I know you are a Nihilist, but nihilism is a new concept to me, and you are the first self proclaimed nihilist I have met.

There are quite a few existential nihilists here but most are apathetic about it. I am not.

As my my beliefs..

Moral Non-cognitivist
Means I don't believe that 'good' or 'evil' are meaningful concepts on their own, and I await a definition before discussing them. I don't believe they are anything inherent on any level though and are just labels for certain behaviors, such as emotivism, or absurdism, etc. Thus by extension I am a moral nihilist.

Also existential nihilist for both existentialism philosophy and inherent human value.

Also epistemological non-cognitivist. I think truth is best defined in entirely incorrigable terms and thus, entirely subjectively. We work under the assumption other people come to the same axiomatic systems and hence communication is possible, which is where the confusion of 'objective truth' comes from. At least that's my current stance.

As for theology, I am a strong atheist or ignostic. I don't believe God is well-defined enough to make a belief statement, but the most common one of tri-omni intelligent God I am a strong atheist towards.

These beliefs are interesting. I disagree with most of these beliefs, but they are interesting. How did you arrive at these conclusions?
"Our life is what our thoughts make it."
R13; Marcus Aurelius
"When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -Marcus Aurelius
"Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." -Voltaire
"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do. "-Voltaire