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How Could God Create The Earth?

PapaNolan
Posts: 145
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1/6/2015 4:15:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
God created plants on the third day, and he created the sun on the fourth day. The Sun gives plants the ability to live. You cannot have plants without photosynthesis.
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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1/6/2015 8:03:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 4:15:43 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
God created plants on the third day, and he created the sun on the fourth day. The Sun gives plants the ability to live. You cannot have plants without photosynthesis.

Since God is not tangible and there is no way to measure his existence and there is no proof that the universe did or did not come into being as a result of God's physical intervention. With all things being as we currently know them to be true.... then I'd have to say that the story of creation in Genesis is not an accurate representation of the process that took place leading to life on Earth and is fictional, or at best, very flawed.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
Clovis
Posts: 191
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1/6/2015 8:38:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 4:15:43 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
God created plants on the third day, and he created the sun on the fourth day. The Sun gives plants the ability to live. You cannot have plants without photosynthesis.

If you take the days as literal days, plants can live 24 hours without sunlight, especially if they were created whole and healthy.
Words are wind.

A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies. The man who never reads lives only one.
PapaNolan
Posts: 145
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1/6/2015 8:41:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 8:38:31 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 4:15:43 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
God created plants on the third day, and he created the sun on the fourth day. The Sun gives plants the ability to live. You cannot have plants without photosynthesis.

If you take the days as literal days, plants can live 24 hours without sunlight, especially if they were created whole and healthy.

Show me an accurate source saying that.
Clovis
Posts: 191
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1/6/2015 8:43:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 8:41:18 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:38:31 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 4:15:43 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
God created plants on the third day, and he created the sun on the fourth day. The Sun gives plants the ability to live. You cannot have plants without photosynthesis.

If you take the days as literal days, plants can live 24 hours without sunlight, especially if they were created whole and healthy.

Show me an accurate source saying that.

I feel like you can do research on plants quite well on your own.
Words are wind.

A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies. The man who never reads lives only one.
PapaNolan
Posts: 145
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1/6/2015 8:45:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 8:43:40 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:41:18 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:38:31 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 4:15:43 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
God created plants on the third day, and he created the sun on the fourth day. The Sun gives plants the ability to live. You cannot have plants without photosynthesis.

If you take the days as literal days, plants can live 24 hours without sunlight, especially if they were created whole and healthy.

Show me an accurate source saying that.

I feel like you can do research on plants quite well on your own.

I DID. Why do you think it took me around three minutes to post that?
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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1/6/2015 8:50:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 8:38:31 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 4:15:43 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
God created plants on the third day, and he created the sun on the fourth day. The Sun gives plants the ability to live. You cannot have plants without photosynthesis.

If you take the days as literal days, plants can live 24 hours without sunlight, especially if they were created whole and healthy.

How can it be taken as literal days? We measure our days by the rotation of Earth and the Sun's position is very important in that measurement. Without the Sun there isn't any concept of a day.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
Clovis
Posts: 191
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1/6/2015 8:53:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 8:50:34 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:38:31 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 4:15:43 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
God created plants on the third day, and he created the sun on the fourth day. The Sun gives plants the ability to live. You cannot have plants without photosynthesis.

If you take the days as literal days, plants can live 24 hours without sunlight, especially if they were created whole and healthy.

How can it be taken as literal days? We measure our days by the rotation of Earth and the Sun's position is very important in that measurement. Without the Sun there isn't any concept of a day.

The ancient Hebrew has one of the definitions of day being an unknown amount of time. I was just humoring him.

If it's an unknown amount of time it could very well be any amount of time. If we're assuming God then we can assume that God created either types of plants that do not require sunlight (of which there are some that feed off of nitrogen, sulpher and such in the Earth) or we can assume he sustained them by other means.

If we're not assuming God then this disucssion should be moved to another post as the topic assumes God.
Words are wind.

A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies. The man who never reads lives only one.
PapaNolan
Posts: 145
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1/6/2015 9:02:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 8:53:24 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:50:34 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:38:31 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 4:15:43 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
God created plants on the third day, and he created the sun on the fourth day. The Sun gives plants the ability to live. You cannot have plants without photosynthesis.

If you take the days as literal days, plants can live 24 hours without sunlight, especially if they were created whole and healthy.

How can it be taken as literal days? We measure our days by the rotation of Earth and the Sun's position is very important in that measurement. Without the Sun there isn't any concept of a day.

The ancient Hebrew has one of the definitions of day being an unknown amount of time. I was just humoring him.

If it's an unknown amount of time it could very well be any amount of time. If we're assuming God then we can assume that God created either types of plants that do not require sunlight (of which there are some that feed off of nitrogen, sulpher and such in the Earth) or we can assume he sustained them by other means.

If we're not assuming God then this disucssion should be moved to another post as the topic assumes God.

One rotation on Earth takes 23 hours 56 minutes. There is a defined day length. If God had created this types of plants than all plants on Earth should be like that. If he created it later than when? Your logic is flawed and does not make any logical/scientific sense.
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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1/6/2015 9:03:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 8:53:24 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:50:34 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:38:31 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 4:15:43 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
God created plants on the third day, and he created the sun on the fourth day. The Sun gives plants the ability to live. You cannot have plants without photosynthesis.

If you take the days as literal days, plants can live 24 hours without sunlight, especially if they were created whole and healthy.

How can it be taken as literal days? We measure our days by the rotation of Earth and the Sun's position is very important in that measurement. Without the Sun there isn't any concept of a day.

The ancient Hebrew has one of the definitions of day being an unknown amount of time. I was just humoring him.

If it's an unknown amount of time it could very well be any amount of time. If we're assuming God then we can assume that God created either types of plants that do not require sunlight (of which there are some that feed off of nitrogen, sulpher and such in the Earth) or we can assume he sustained them by other means.

If we're not assuming God then this disucssion should be moved to another post as the topic assumes God.

I need to add a correction. It does take Earth roughly 24 hours to turn on its axis. But I would think Genesis would say something like rotation or turn rather than day. The theory that a day can be any period of time is a better one. But I still question the validity. I just can't see plants before sun. Plus, why doesn't it mention dinosaurs? I think Genesis cannot be taken literally.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
Clovis
Posts: 191
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1/6/2015 9:05:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 9:02:39 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:53:24 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:50:34 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:38:31 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 4:15:43 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
God created plants on the third day, and he created the sun on the fourth day. The Sun gives plants the ability to live. You cannot have plants without photosynthesis.

If you take the days as literal days, plants can live 24 hours without sunlight, especially if they were created whole and healthy.

How can it be taken as literal days? We measure our days by the rotation of Earth and the Sun's position is very important in that measurement. Without the Sun there isn't any concept of a day.

The ancient Hebrew has one of the definitions of day being an unknown amount of time. I was just humoring him.

If it's an unknown amount of time it could very well be any amount of time. If we're assuming God then we can assume that God created either types of plants that do not require sunlight (of which there are some that feed off of nitrogen, sulpher and such in the Earth) or we can assume he sustained them by other means.

If we're not assuming God then this disucssion should be moved to another post as the topic assumes God.

One rotation on Earth takes 23 hours 56 minutes. There is a defined day length. If God had created this types of plants than all plants on Earth should be like that. If he created it later than when? Your logic is flawed and does not make any logical/scientific sense.

The word "day" in ancient Hebrew can be translated as an unknown amount of time. It is a possible translation. The word in question is Yom and does not necessarily mean a 24 hour period.

http://lexiconcordance.com...
Words are wind.

A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies. The man who never reads lives only one.
Clovis
Posts: 191
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1/6/2015 9:08:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 9:03:11 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:53:24 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:50:34 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:38:31 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 4:15:43 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
God created plants on the third day, and he created the sun on the fourth day. The Sun gives plants the ability to live. You cannot have plants without photosynthesis.

If you take the days as literal days, plants can live 24 hours without sunlight, especially if they were created whole and healthy.

How can it be taken as literal days? We measure our days by the rotation of Earth and the Sun's position is very important in that measurement. Without the Sun there isn't any concept of a day.

The ancient Hebrew has one of the definitions of day being an unknown amount of time. I was just humoring him.

If it's an unknown amount of time it could very well be any amount of time. If we're assuming God then we can assume that God created either types of plants that do not require sunlight (of which there are some that feed off of nitrogen, sulpher and such in the Earth) or we can assume he sustained them by other means.

If we're not assuming God then this disucssion should be moved to another post as the topic assumes God.

I need to add a correction. It does take Earth roughly 24 hours to turn on its axis. But I would think Genesis would say something like rotation or turn rather than day. The theory that a day can be any period of time is a better one. But I still question the validity. I just can't see plants before sun. Plus, why doesn't it mention dinosaurs? I think Genesis cannot be taken literally.

It merely mentions creatures that crawl upon the Earth. That could concievably include dinosaurs. The only animals it actually mentions are cattle, humans, fish and birds. Unless you believe that those were the only animals created by God at the time we can safely assume other creatures were part of the bunch as well. Why not dinosaurs? I'm not saying I believe one way or another but you can't simply discount dinosaurs.
Words are wind.

A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies. The man who never reads lives only one.
PapaNolan
Posts: 145
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1/6/2015 9:08:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 9:05:32 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 9:02:39 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:53:24 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:50:34 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:38:31 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 4:15:43 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
God created plants on the third day, and he created the sun on the fourth day. The Sun gives plants the ability to live. You cannot have plants without photosynthesis.

If you take the days as literal days, plants can live 24 hours without sunlight, especially if they were created whole and healthy.

How can it be taken as literal days? We measure our days by the rotation of Earth and the Sun's position is very important in that measurement. Without the Sun there isn't any concept of a day.

The ancient Hebrew has one of the definitions of day being an unknown amount of time. I was just humoring him.

If it's an unknown amount of time it could very well be any amount of time. If we're assuming God then we can assume that God created either types of plants that do not require sunlight (of which there are some that feed off of nitrogen, sulpher and such in the Earth) or we can assume he sustained them by other means.

If we're not assuming God then this disucssion should be moved to another post as the topic assumes God.

One rotation on Earth takes 23 hours 56 minutes. There is a defined day length. If God had created this types of plants than all plants on Earth should be like that. If he created it later than when? Your logic is flawed and does not make any logical/scientific sense.

The word "day" in ancient Hebrew can be translated as an unknown amount of time. It is a possible translation. The word in question is Yom and does not necessarily mean a 24 hour period.

http://lexiconcordance.com...

http://www.icr.org...

You still have yet to negate my past statements. Not doing so will make the claim that "day" is an unknown amount of time not matter.
Clovis
Posts: 191
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1/6/2015 9:11:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 9:08:56 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
At 1/6/2015 9:05:32 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 9:02:39 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:53:24 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:50:34 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:38:31 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 4:15:43 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
God created plants on the third day, and he created the sun on the fourth day. The Sun gives plants the ability to live. You cannot have plants without photosynthesis.

If you take the days as literal days, plants can live 24 hours without sunlight, especially if they were created whole and healthy.

How can it be taken as literal days? We measure our days by the rotation of Earth and the Sun's position is very important in that measurement. Without the Sun there isn't any concept of a day.

The ancient Hebrew has one of the definitions of day being an unknown amount of time. I was just humoring him.

If it's an unknown amount of time it could very well be any amount of time. If we're assuming God then we can assume that God created either types of plants that do not require sunlight (of which there are some that feed off of nitrogen, sulpher and such in the Earth) or we can assume he sustained them by other means.

If we're not assuming God then this disucssion should be moved to another post as the topic assumes God.

One rotation on Earth takes 23 hours 56 minutes. There is a defined day length. If God had created this types of plants than all plants on Earth should be like that. If he created it later than when? Your logic is flawed and does not make any logical/scientific sense.

The word "day" in ancient Hebrew can be translated as an unknown amount of time. It is a possible translation. The word in question is Yom and does not necessarily mean a 24 hour period.

http://lexiconcordance.com...

http://www.icr.org...

You still have yet to negate my past statements. Not doing so will make the claim that "day" is an unknown amount of time not matter.

what past statements am I negating?
Words are wind.

A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies. The man who never reads lives only one.
Defro
Posts: 847
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1/6/2015 9:19:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 8:45:45 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:43:40 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:41:18 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:38:31 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 4:15:43 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
God created plants on the third day, and he created the sun on the fourth day. The Sun gives plants the ability to live. You cannot have plants without photosynthesis.

If you take the days as literal days, plants can live 24 hours without sunlight, especially if they were created whole and healthy.

Show me an accurate source saying that.

I feel like you can do research on plants quite well on your own.

I DID. Why do you think it took me around three minutes to post that?

Well then you obviously didn't do enough research.
I took AP Biology last year, and I know for a fact that plants can temporarily survive without the sun. There is no sun at night, do you think all the plants die at night?

Plants have dark reactions that allow them to survive for a certain amount of time wothout he sun. They use these at night.

Also, sometimes the environment that plants are in derive them of sunlight for many days, maybe even a month, during which they enter a state similar to how animals hibernate and are able to go without food for a month.

Also, maybe God didn't create te plants, but the seeds, which don't need sunlight and can survive for thousnads of years. That would still fit in with the context, because seeds are considered plants.
Clovis
Posts: 191
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1/6/2015 9:23:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 9:19:33 PM, Defro wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:45:45 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:43:40 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:41:18 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:38:31 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 4:15:43 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
God created plants on the third day, and he created the sun on the fourth day. The Sun gives plants the ability to live. You cannot have plants without photosynthesis.

If you take the days as literal days, plants can live 24 hours without sunlight, especially if they were created whole and healthy.

Show me an accurate source saying that.

I feel like you can do research on plants quite well on your own.

I DID. Why do you think it took me around three minutes to post that?

Well then you obviously didn't do enough research.
I took AP Biology last year, and I know for a fact that plants can temporarily survive without the sun. There is no sun at night, do you think all the plants die at night?

Plants have dark reactions that allow them to survive for a certain amount of time wothout he sun. They use these at night.

Also, sometimes the environment that plants are in derive them of sunlight for many days, maybe even a month, during which they enter a state similar to how animals hibernate and are able to go without food for a month.

Also, maybe God didn't create te plants, but the seeds, which don't need sunlight and can survive for thousnads of years. That would still fit in with the context, because seeds are considered plants.

^ I didn't think of that last point. Interesting take.
Words are wind.

A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies. The man who never reads lives only one.
PapaNolan
Posts: 145
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1/6/2015 9:37:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 9:19:33 PM, Defro wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:45:45 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:43:40 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:41:18 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:38:31 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 4:15:43 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
God created plants on the third day, and he created the sun on the fourth day. The Sun gives plants the ability to live. You cannot have plants without photosynthesis.

If you take the days as literal days, plants can live 24 hours without sunlight, especially if they were created whole and healthy.

Show me an accurate source saying that.

I feel like you can do research on plants quite well on your own.

I DID. Why do you think it took me around three minutes to post that?

Well then you obviously didn't do enough research.
I took AP Biology last year, and I know for a fact that plants can temporarily survive without the sun. There is no sun at night, do you think all the plants die at night?

Plants have dark reactions that allow them to survive for a certain amount of time wothout he sun. They use these at night.

Also, sometimes the environment that plants are in derive them of sunlight for many days, maybe even a month, during which they enter a state similar to how animals hibernate and are able to go without food for a month.

Also, maybe God didn't create te plants, but the seeds, which don't need sunlight and can survive for thousnads of years. That would still fit in with the context, because seeds are considered plants.

Of course they can! You are missing the point and grammar. You did not look at the source. It is technically 150 years according to Evangelicals, so I can guarantee you that many plants cannot live with no sun that long, and if the seeds are in the ground than who is watering them? If I were to use bible logic for a second than if the plants stayed as seeds in the ground than they would stay in that way. Like Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve XD
PapaNolan
Posts: 145
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1/6/2015 9:42:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 9:11:48 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 9:08:56 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
At 1/6/2015 9:05:32 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 9:02:39 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:53:24 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:50:34 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:38:31 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 4:15:43 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
God created plants on the third day, and he created the sun on the fourth day. The Sun gives plants the ability to live. You cannot have plants without photosynthesis.

If you take the days as literal days, plants can live 24 hours without sunlight, especially if they were created whole and healthy.

How can it be taken as literal days? We measure our days by the rotation of Earth and the Sun's position is very important in that measurement. Without the Sun there isn't any concept of a day.

The ancient Hebrew has one of the definitions of day being an unknown amount of time. I was just humoring him.

If it's an unknown amount of time it could very well be any amount of time. If we're assuming God then we can assume that God created either types of plants that do not require sunlight (of which there are some that feed off of nitrogen, sulpher and such in the Earth) or we can assume he sustained them by other means.

If we're not assuming God then this disucssion should be moved to another post as the topic assumes God.

One rotation on Earth takes 23 hours 56 minutes. There is a defined day length. If God had created this types of plants than all plants on Earth should be like that. If he created it later than when? Your logic is flawed and does not make any logical/scientific sense.

The word "day" in ancient Hebrew can be translated as an unknown amount of time. It is a possible translation. The word in question is Yom and does not necessarily mean a 24 hour period.

http://lexiconcordance.com...

http://www.icr.org...

You still have yet to negate my past statements. Not doing so will make the claim that "day" is an unknown amount of time not matter.

what past statements am I negating?

Combination of biblical logic and scientific logic. *hint* The one where I was talking about you having no scientific/logical evidence.
PapaNolan
Posts: 145
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1/6/2015 9:43:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 9:23:49 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 9:19:33 PM, Defro wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:45:45 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:43:40 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:41:18 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:38:31 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 4:15:43 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
God created plants on the third day, and he created the sun on the fourth day. The Sun gives plants the ability to live. You cannot have plants without photosynthesis.

If you take the days as literal days, plants can live 24 hours without sunlight, especially if they were created whole and healthy.

Show me an accurate source saying that.

I feel like you can do research on plants quite well on your own.

I DID. Why do you think it took me around three minutes to post that?

Well then you obviously didn't do enough research.
I took AP Biology last year, and I know for a fact that plants can temporarily survive without the sun. There is no sun at night, do you think all the plants die at night?

Plants have dark reactions that allow them to survive for a certain amount of time wothout he sun. They use these at night.

Also, sometimes the environment that plants are in derive them of sunlight for many days, maybe even a month, during which they enter a state similar to how animals hibernate and are able to go without food for a month.

Also, maybe God didn't create te plants, but the seeds, which don't need sunlight and can survive for thousnads of years. That would still fit in with the context, because seeds are considered plants.

^ I didn't think of that last point. Interesting take.

I am starting to become bored of all you. This is one of the last times I will comment on this page.
Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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1/6/2015 9:47:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 4:15:43 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
God created plants on the third day, and he created the sun on the fourth day. The Sun gives plants the ability to live. You cannot have plants without photosynthesis.

Within the realm of an infinitely powerful god, a contradiction like this isn't something impossible to get over.

However, what this does show is the ignorance of those who wrote the bible. They had little understanding of how the world worked, and their ignorance led them to god. If they had understood even basic plant biology, they would have understood the problem their ordering had created.

Why should we listen to any claim (without other evidence) by bronze age shepherds, when they couldn't understand something as observable and easily knowable as 'exposure to sun = plant growth'?
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Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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1/6/2015 9:49:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 8:50:34 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:38:31 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 4:15:43 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
God created plants on the third day, and he created the sun on the fourth day. The Sun gives plants the ability to live. You cannot have plants without photosynthesis.

If you take the days as literal days, plants can live 24 hours without sunlight, especially if they were created whole and healthy.

How can it be taken as literal days? We measure our days by the rotation of Earth and the Sun's position is very important in that measurement. Without the Sun there isn't any concept of a day.

Which is why the days are blocks of subject matter, not chronological days.

Also the first day.. is very specifically written in Hebrew as "One day" signifying a day of unity. The other days are referred to with 2nd..third..fourth days. Each day is paired with another day.

The 1->4; 2->5; 3->6. the first day is a general description, then more detail is given in the 2nd paired day. This technique is called parallelism. And we see it at a level higher in Genesis. Hence two creation accounts in Genesis.

Plus the verse for the plants is, Genesis 1:11 "Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation..." The term is "Let". Not "created".

The Hebrew word for "create" is "bara". Used in the first verse Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

The word in Genesis 1:11 is "tadse" which means "Let"

"Create" is a word denoting the emergence of something from non-existence into existence.

"Let" is a word denoting the permissive act of allowing or commanding something to come forth.

Plants could very well have existed before this 3rd day. As well as the sun before the 4th day.

The 4th day is really just explaining more of the the first day ((which is actually written as One day)).

Genesis 1:4 "God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day"
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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1/6/2015 9:54:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 9:23:49 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 9:19:33 PM, Defro wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:45:45 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:43:40 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:41:18 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:38:31 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 4:15:43 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
God created plants on the third day, and he created the sun on the fourth day. The Sun gives plants the ability to live. You cannot have plants without photosynthesis.

If you take the days as literal days, plants can live 24 hours without sunlight, especially if they were created whole and healthy.

Show me an accurate source saying that.

I feel like you can do research on plants quite well on your own.

I DID. Why do you think it took me around three minutes to post that?

Well then you obviously didn't do enough research.
I took AP Biology last year, and I know for a fact that plants can temporarily survive without the sun. There is no sun at night, do you think all the plants die at night?

Plants have dark reactions that allow them to survive for a certain amount of time wothout he sun. They use these at night.

Also, sometimes the environment that plants are in derive them of sunlight for many days, maybe even a month, during which they enter a state similar to how animals hibernate and are able to go without food for a month.

Also, maybe God didn't create te plants, but the seeds, which don't need sunlight and can survive for thousnads of years. That would still fit in with the context, because seeds are considered plants.

^ I didn't think of that last point. Interesting take.

Only the following verse Gen. 1:12 "The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good..."
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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1/6/2015 9:58:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 9:43:43 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
At 1/6/2015 9:23:49 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 9:19:33 PM, Defro wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:45:45 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:43:40 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:41:18 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:38:31 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 4:15:43 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
God created plants on the third day, and he created the sun on the fourth day. The Sun gives plants the ability to live. You cannot have plants without photosynthesis.

If you take the days as literal days, plants can live 24 hours without sunlight, especially if they were created whole and healthy.

Show me an accurate source saying that.

I feel like you can do research on plants quite well on your own.

I DID. Why do you think it took me around three minutes to post that?

Well then you obviously didn't do enough research.
I took AP Biology last year, and I know for a fact that plants can temporarily survive without the sun. There is no sun at night, do you think all the plants die at night?

Plants have dark reactions that allow them to survive for a certain amount of time wothout he sun. They use these at night.

Also, sometimes the environment that plants are in derive them of sunlight for many days, maybe even a month, during which they enter a state similar to how animals hibernate and are able to go without food for a month.

Also, maybe God didn't create te plants, but the seeds, which don't need sunlight and can survive for thousnads of years. That would still fit in with the context, because seeds are considered plants.

^ I didn't think of that last point. Interesting take.

I am starting to become bored of all you. This is one of the last times I will comment on this page.

Here is a collection of commentaries on Genesis written by Jewish Rabbis, in 444 a.d. with many parts of it dating back to 50 a.d.

http://archive.org...

These guys could not twist their beliefs to match our modern science. And yet. The days were taken literally or chronologically.
Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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1/6/2015 10:01:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
And yes, I understand that plants/seeds can survive without the sun for certain periods of time. However, the important thing isn't that it could conceivably be true, but the ignorance of the writers in their insensible ordering of the days.

If god were to exist, the rules that we judge reality on wouldn't matter anyway. The best argument against god is simply a refutation of arguments for god, and pointing out that skepticism is a rational state of mind for something that has not had sufficient evidence shown for it.

Fellow atheists, if you do this, please stop going on the attack in situations like this. It just makes you look dumb.

You can attack the claims of religion. You can attack the morality of faith. You can attack any of the sham evidence and biased personal experience put forth by your foes. But don't attack a claim like this. It can't be disproven 100%, and since the only way to have the days of creation is to have a god, and any rules for evidence or demands that conventions of our knowledge be canceled by the existence of a god, it is an unfalsifiable hypothesis.
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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1/6/2015 10:04:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 9:47:54 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
At 1/6/2015 4:15:43 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
God created plants on the third day, and he created the sun on the fourth day. The Sun gives plants the ability to live. You cannot have plants without photosynthesis.

Within the realm of an infinitely powerful god, a contradiction like this isn't something impossible to get over.

However, what this does show is the ignorance of those who wrote the bible. They had little understanding of how the world worked, and their ignorance led them to god. If they had understood even basic plant biology, they would have understood the problem their ordering had created.

Why should we listen to any claim (without other evidence) by bronze age shepherds, when they couldn't understand something as observable and easily knowable as 'exposure to sun = plant growth'?

You know what is stupid about this. You claim that the writers didn't have a basic understanding of plant biology.

I'm pretty sure the agricultural revolution came about because people understood seed, water, soil, sunlight, make stuff to eat. They even made beer from the food. Which is not an easy process.

Your assumption is the account is to be taken literal and chronological. And you have made no case for it being taken so.

The fact is they had an understanding of basic plant biology to know better than to write the sun came after plants. Clearly, along with other structural and grammatical nuances, the account in Genesis is not meant to be taken as plants flowering before there is a sun. Not to mention I'm sure no matter how long ago the writer/s of Genesis lived they would know a tree does not grow in one day.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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1/6/2015 10:05:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 9:58:23 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 1/6/2015 9:43:43 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
At 1/6/2015 9:23:49 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 9:19:33 PM, Defro wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:45:45 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:43:40 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:41:18 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:38:31 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 4:15:43 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
God created plants on the third day, and he created the sun on the fourth day. The Sun gives plants the ability to live. You cannot have plants without photosynthesis.

If you take the days as literal days, plants can live 24 hours without sunlight, especially if they were created whole and healthy.

Show me an accurate source saying that.

I feel like you can do research on plants quite well on your own.

I DID. Why do you think it took me around three minutes to post that?

Well then you obviously didn't do enough research.
I took AP Biology last year, and I know for a fact that plants can temporarily survive without the sun. There is no sun at night, do you think all the plants die at night?

Plants have dark reactions that allow them to survive for a certain amount of time wothout he sun. They use these at night.

Also, sometimes the environment that plants are in derive them of sunlight for many days, maybe even a month, during which they enter a state similar to how animals hibernate and are able to go without food for a month.

Also, maybe God didn't create te plants, but the seeds, which don't need sunlight and can survive for thousnads of years. That would still fit in with the context, because seeds are considered plants.

^ I didn't think of that last point. Interesting take.

I am starting to become bored of all you. This is one of the last times I will comment on this page.

Here is a collection of commentaries on Genesis written by Jewish Rabbis, in 444 a.d. with many parts of it dating back to 50 a.d.

http://archive.org...

These guys could not twist their beliefs to match our modern science. And yet. The days were taken literally or chronologically.

correction were NOT taken literally or chronological.
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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1/6/2015 10:07:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 9:49:29 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:50:34 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:38:31 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 4:15:43 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
God created plants on the third day, and he created the sun on the fourth day. The Sun gives plants the ability to live. You cannot have plants without photosynthesis.

If you take the days as literal days, plants can live 24 hours without sunlight, especially if they were created whole and healthy.

How can it be taken as literal days? We measure our days by the rotation of Earth and the Sun's position is very important in that measurement. Without the Sun there isn't any concept of a day.

Which is why the days are blocks of subject matter, not chronological days.

Also the first day.. is very specifically written in Hebrew as "One day" signifying a day of unity. The other days are referred to with 2nd..third..fourth days. Each day is paired with another day.

The 1->4; 2->5; 3->6. the first day is a general description, then more detail is given in the 2nd paired day. This technique is called parallelism. And we see it at a level higher in Genesis. Hence two creation accounts in Genesis.

Plus the verse for the plants is, Genesis 1:11 "Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation..." The term is "Let". Not "created".

The Hebrew word for "create" is "bara". Used in the first verse Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

The word in Genesis 1:11 is "tadse" which means "Let"

"Create" is a word denoting the emergence of something from non-existence into existence.

"Let" is a word denoting the permissive act of allowing or commanding something to come forth.

Plants could very well have existed before this 3rd day. As well as the sun before the 4th day.

The 4th day is really just explaining more of the the first day ((which is actually written as One day)).

Genesis 1:4 "God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day"

This is interesting. I'll have to look up the concept of parallelism and read about it. It seems like a stretch, but it could have merit. You have given me some inspired reading material.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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1/6/2015 10:18:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 10:04:12 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 1/6/2015 9:47:54 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
At 1/6/2015 4:15:43 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
God created plants on the third day, and he created the sun on the fourth day. The Sun gives plants the ability to live. You cannot have plants without photosynthesis.

Within the realm of an infinitely powerful god, a contradiction like this isn't something impossible to get over.

However, what this does show is the ignorance of those who wrote the bible. They had little understanding of how the world worked, and their ignorance led them to god. If they had understood even basic plant biology, they would have understood the problem their ordering had created.

Why should we listen to any claim (without other evidence) by bronze age shepherds, when they couldn't understand something as observable and easily knowable as 'exposure to sun = plant growth'?

You know what is stupid about this. You claim that the writers didn't have a basic understanding of plant biology.

I'm pretty sure the agricultural revolution came about because people understood seed, water, soil, sunlight, make stuff to eat. They even made beer from the food. Which is not an easy process.

I'll cede that point.

Your assumption is the account is to be taken literal and chronological. And you have made no case for it being taken so.

Some people do believe that it is to be taken literally and chronologically. Regardless of whether you personally accept that is another matter. You do not speak for all Christians and Jews.

The fact is they had an understanding of basic plant biology to know better than to write the sun came after plants. Clearly, along with other structural and grammatical nuances, the account in Genesis is not meant to be taken as plants flowering before there is a sun. Not to mention I'm sure no matter how long ago the writer/s of Genesis lived they would know a tree does not grow in one day.

Ancient Hebrew is a difficult language to deal with, and with many revisions and re-translations, as well as the development of the language, it is difficult to know what the writers meant, and what the definition of certain words were when the text was first written.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
http://ancienthistory.about.com...
https://faculty.gordon.edu...

Many of these are referencing the new testament as well, but I have a question. If we have such trouble with the new testament, which was pieced together by relatively recent councils and figures, and began in the Roman empire, a highly literate society whose language we understand very well, how can we expect a perfect understanding of either testament?

And when you think about it, why would god allow his word to be misconstrued or questioned over something as silly as the evolution of language?
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved
bulproof
Posts: 25,250
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1/6/2015 10:27:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 8:38:31 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 4:15:43 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
God created plants on the third day, and he created the sun on the fourth day. The Sun gives plants the ability to live. You cannot have plants without photosynthesis.

If you take the days as literal days, plants can live 24 hours without sunlight, especially if they were created whole and healthy.

On a cryogenic planet?
That would be cool, well bloody freezing actually. minus 454f
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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1/6/2015 10:33:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 10:07:44 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 1/6/2015 9:49:29 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:50:34 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:38:31 PM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/6/2015 4:15:43 PM, PapaNolan wrote:
God created plants on the third day, and he created the sun on the fourth day. The Sun gives plants the ability to live. You cannot have plants without photosynthesis.

If you take the days as literal days, plants can live 24 hours without sunlight, especially if they were created whole and healthy.

How can it be taken as literal days? We measure our days by the rotation of Earth and the Sun's position is very important in that measurement. Without the Sun there isn't any concept of a day.

Which is why the days are blocks of subject matter, not chronological days.

Also the first day.. is very specifically written in Hebrew as "One day" signifying a day of unity. The other days are referred to with 2nd..third..fourth days. Each day is paired with another day.

The 1->4; 2->5; 3->6. the first day is a general description, then more detail is given in the 2nd paired day. This technique is called parallelism. And we see it at a level higher in Genesis. Hence two creation accounts in Genesis.

Plus the verse for the plants is, Genesis 1:11 "Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation..." The term is "Let". Not "created".

The Hebrew word for "create" is "bara". Used in the first verse Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

The word in Genesis 1:11 is "tadse" which means "Let"

"Create" is a word denoting the emergence of something from non-existence into existence.

"Let" is a word denoting the permissive act of allowing or commanding something to come forth.

Plants could very well have existed before this 3rd day. As well as the sun before the 4th day.

The 4th day is really just explaining more of the the first day ((which is actually written as One day)).

Genesis 1:4 "God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day"

This is interesting. I'll have to look up the concept of parallelism and read about it. It seems like a stretch, but it could have merit. You have given me some inspired reading material.

Wiki Bible Poetry
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Asbury Commentary Bible Gateway
https://www.biblegateway.com...

Parallelism Jewish Encyclopedia
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com...

Parallelism in Hebrew poetry : Each phrase is paralleled by a similar phrase of different wording but of equal meaning in the corresponding second half of the verse.