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Proof of God

darthebearnc
Posts: 247
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1/7/2015 4:24:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Hallo!

I was wondering if anybody can think of any valid proofs for God's existence. So far, I haven't seen any, but I'm wondering if there are any out there.

Thanks! :D
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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1/7/2015 5:10:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 4:24:16 AM, darthebearnc wrote:
Hallo!

I was wondering if anybody can think of any valid proofs for God's existence. So far, I haven't seen any, but I'm wondering if there are any out there.

Thanks! :D

What do you mean by "proof"?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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1/7/2015 6:34:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 4:49:49 AM, Smithereens wrote:
Sure:

Proof from Causa Simia:
1) If God didn't exist, I would be lying
2) I am not lying
C) Therefore God exists.

Well it's at least certainly valid....
12_13
Posts: 1,361
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1/7/2015 12:16:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 4:24:16 AM, darthebearnc wrote:
I was wondering if anybody can think of any valid proofs for God's existence. So far, I haven't seen any, but I'm wondering if there are any out there.

Someone has once said to me that proofs are only in Mathematic.

I think we have evidence for that Bible is true:
1. Things that are said to be created exists
2. Things have happened as Bible predicts, for example Jews were scattered and are now gathered as the Bible has claimed.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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1/7/2015 4:21:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 4:24:16 AM, darthebearnc wrote:
Hallo!

I was wondering if anybody can think of any valid proofs for God's existence. So far, I haven't seen any, but I'm wondering if there are any out there.

Thanks! :D

There is no proof of God. Simply put.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,093
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1/7/2015 4:51:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 4:21:57 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/7/2015 4:24:16 AM, darthebearnc wrote:
Hallo!

I was wondering if anybody can think of any valid proofs for God's existence. So far, I haven't seen any, but I'm wondering if there are any out there.

Thanks! :D

There is no proof of God. Simply put.

Agreed.

Also, before you get flamed, saying there is no proof of god is not the same as saying there is no god.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
YassineB
Posts: 1,003
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1/7/2015 4:55:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 4:24:16 AM, darthebearnc wrote:
Hallo!

I was wondering if anybody can think of any valid proofs for God's existence. So far, I haven't seen any, but I'm wondering if there are any out there.

Thanks! :D

> Check my debate with Envisage, I am Pro & I am trying to establish the existence of God:
http://www.debate.org...
Current Debates In Voting Period:

- The Qur'an We Have Today is Not What Muhammad Dictated Verbatim. Vs. @Envisage:
http://www.debate.org...

- Drawing Contest. Vs. @purpleduck:
http://www.debate.org...

"It is perfectly permissible to vote on sources without reading them" bluesteel.
PeacefulChaos
Posts: 2,610
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1/7/2015 5:06:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 4:21:57 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/7/2015 4:24:16 AM, darthebearnc wrote:
Hallo!

I was wondering if anybody can think of any valid proofs for God's existence. So far, I haven't seen any, but I'm wondering if there are any out there.

Thanks! :D

There is no proof of God. Simply put.

If God existed and created the universe, would his creation not be proof of his existence, regardless of whether or not his creation was capable of realizing this?
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,093
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1/7/2015 5:13:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 12:16:25 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 1/7/2015 4:24:16 AM, darthebearnc wrote:
I was wondering if anybody can think of any valid proofs for God's existence. So far, I haven't seen any, but I'm wondering if there are any out there.

Someone has once said to me that proofs are only in Mathematic.

I think we have evidence for that Bible is true:
1. Things that are said to be created exists
2. Things have happened as Bible predicts, for example Jews were scattered and are now gathered as the Bible has claimed.

We have evidence that the Bible is highly improbable (if not false) in some cases (the sun not shining for three hours or the dead rising and walking the streets of Jerusalem at Jesus' death, for example), and:
1. The Bible is not the only source to claim things were created that actually exist
2. The Bible is not the only source claimed to have accurate predictions.

If we accept these premises as is, then we would allow sources other than the Bible to be 'true' - some of which may be undeniably fiction.

I'm sure a better argument could be made.

Plus, I'm not sure if the OP was specifically talking about the Christian god.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,093
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1/7/2015 5:17:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 2:15:56 PM, bestreligion wrote:
This universe is the best proof to His existence.

Disagree. God is not the only way the universe could have come about. The truth of the matter is: we don't know. Therefore, the universe is proof of nothing in regards to god or no god.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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1/7/2015 5:20:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 4:51:38 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 1/7/2015 4:21:57 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/7/2015 4:24:16 AM, darthebearnc wrote:
Hallo!

I was wondering if anybody can think of any valid proofs for God's existence. So far, I haven't seen any, but I'm wondering if there are any out there.

Thanks! :D

There is no proof of God. Simply put.

Agreed.

Also, before you get flamed, saying there is no proof of god is not the same as saying there is no god.

Agreed
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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1/7/2015 5:36:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 4:24:16 AM, darthebearnc wrote:
Hallo!

I was wondering if anybody can think of any valid proofs for God's existence. So far, I haven't seen any, but I'm wondering if there are any out there.

Thanks! :D
The proof of God was already applied to Jesus and he failed. We would all be believers today if Jesus passed the proof of God test.

Matthew 27:42 "He saved others," they said, "but he can't save himself! He's the king of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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1/7/2015 6:23:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 4:51:38 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 1/7/2015 4:21:57 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/7/2015 4:24:16 AM, darthebearnc wrote:
Hallo!

I was wondering if anybody can think of any valid proofs for God's existence. So far, I haven't seen any, but I'm wondering if there are any out there.

Thanks! :D

There is no proof of God. Simply put.

Agreed.

Also, before you get flamed, saying there is no proof of god is not the same as saying there is no god.

There's no proof any of you think rationally. as beasty likes to say proof is in math and liquor.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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1/7/2015 6:27:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 5:06:20 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 1/7/2015 4:21:57 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/7/2015 4:24:16 AM, darthebearnc wrote:
Hallo!

I was wondering if anybody can think of any valid proofs for God's existence. So far, I haven't seen any, but I'm wondering if there are any out there.

Thanks! :D

There is no proof of God. Simply put.

If God existed and created the universe, would his creation not be proof of his existence, regardless of whether or not his creation was capable of realizing this?

God inspired a message they can understand, but choose not to.

God shows them a message they can't comprehend, but they say it is the only truth and nothing more.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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1/7/2015 7:28:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 4:24:16 AM, darthebearnc wrote:
Hallo!

I was wondering if anybody can think of any valid proofs for God's existence. So far, I haven't seen any, but I'm wondering if there are any out there.

Thanks! :D

Newton's First Law of Motion - An object at rest stays at rest and an object in motion stays in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force.

The Universe has had a rapid expansion after t-1 plank second. And has accelerating expansion since est. 7.5 billion years ago.

This change must be attributed to an unbalanced force.

Energy can not be destroyed or created. So the amount of ALL Energy in the Universe, no matter what kind of shape it takes has stayed the same.

The expansion of the universe should be uniform. It is not. The unbalanced force causing the accelerated expansion of the universe will be external to the universe.

We have no proper tools for distinguishing a natural force from the actions of an intelligent agent. Usually natural forces are always constant, can be experimented with, and observable.

This external force to the universe has not always been present, has not been produced in the lab, can not be experimented on.

Forces of nature in this universe lose strength as distance from the source increases. In an inverse square ratio. This external force does not exhibit such ratio.

The external force causing the universe to accelerate it's expansion is not natural.

If not natural then by intelligent agent.

The external force causing the universe to accelerate it's expansion is an intelligent agent.

Dark Energy acting differently but being natural form of energy is special pleading.

therefore God. I.E. powerful enough to effect universe, intelligent, creator.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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1/7/2015 8:30:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 7:28:42 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
The external force causing the universe to accelerate it's expansion is not natural.

It never ceases to amaze me how one can look at what nature is doing and say "nope, nature can't do that".
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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1/7/2015 8:34:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 8:30:46 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 1/7/2015 7:28:42 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
The external force causing the universe to accelerate it's expansion is not natural.

It never ceases to amaze me how one can look at what nature is doing and say "nope, nature can't do that".

So everything you observe is nature?

From your observations how do you discern between natural and intelligent agent?


This is the line concluding from previous statements do you have something to rebuttal them?
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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1/7/2015 8:54:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 8:34:18 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 1/7/2015 8:30:46 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 1/7/2015 7:28:42 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
The external force causing the universe to accelerate it's expansion is not natural.

It never ceases to amaze me how one can look at what nature is doing and say "nope, nature can't do that".

So everything you observe is nature?

From your observations how do you discern between natural and intelligent agent?


This is the line concluding from previous statements do you have something to rebuttal them?

The only intelligent agent I have ever observed in my life has been a human being, or some animals depending on your standards of intelligence. I discern between what nature does vs. what humans do by observing what nature does and what humans do, and I compare them. The expansion of the universe is not consistent with human capability and actions, so I refer to it as nature.

So is there any other form of intelligence out there? I wouldn't know. But apparently you do since you are the one claiming that the external force causing the universe's expansion rate is not natural.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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1/7/2015 9:12:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 8:54:02 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 1/7/2015 8:34:18 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 1/7/2015 8:30:46 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 1/7/2015 7:28:42 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
The external force causing the universe to accelerate it's expansion is not natural.

It never ceases to amaze me how one can look at what nature is doing and say "nope, nature can't do that".

So everything you observe is nature?

From your observations how do you discern between natural and intelligent agent?


This is the line concluding from previous statements do you have something to rebuttal them?

The only intelligent agent I have ever observed in my life has been a human being, or some animals depending on your standards of intelligence. I discern between what nature does vs. what humans do by observing what nature does and what humans do, and I compare them. The expansion of the universe is not consistent with human capability and actions, so I refer to it as nature.

So is there any other form of intelligence out there? I wouldn't know. But apparently you do since you are the one claiming that the external force causing the universe's expansion rate is not natural.

Your reasoning is not the difference between natural and intelligent agent. They only infer that humans, or some intelligent animal you know of, are incapable of creating a universe.

My reasoning stemmed more from how the actions or effects of an intelligent agent differ from natural forces. Making them more appropriate to apply.

Because we are already trying to discern if a force sufficient enough to effect the universe, is intelligent or natural, your observations do not apply. You make a hasty generalization that does not relate to the possible source of this such force.

you should look at hastily generalization.

Plus your argument holds the implicit premise, there is no intelligent agents other than humans (or some animals).

Which when applied here creates a circular logic. Which points out another difference between my discernment and yours. I was trying to discern based on the actions of an intelligent agent and you discern by an agent's species.
Clovis
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1/7/2015 10:00:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 4:24:16 AM, darthebearnc wrote:
Hallo!

I was wondering if anybody can think of any valid proofs for God's existence. So far, I haven't seen any, but I'm wondering if there are any out there.

Thanks! :D

If you're interested in this topic I'd advise you to read this.

http://plato.stanford.edu...

It's a good resource to start exploring this idea of proofs for God's existence.
Words are wind.

A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies. The man who never reads lives only one.
uncung
Posts: 3,433
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1/8/2015 1:52:44 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 4:24:16 AM, darthebearnc wrote:
Hallo!

I was wondering if anybody can think of any valid proofs for God's existence. So far, I haven't seen any, but I'm wondering if there are any out there.

Thanks! :D

Our universe is the legit evidence. The organized universe belongs to chemical, physical and mathematical performance must be created by someone. And we call it as God.
intellectuallyprimitive
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1/8/2015 3:04:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 4:24:16 AM, darthebearnc wrote:
Hallo!

I was wondering if anybody can think of any valid proofs for God's existence. So far, I haven't seen any, but I'm wondering if there are any out there.

Thanks! :D

I'm not certain there is any evidence for a god, so in the meantime I lack a belief of one.
JJ50
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1/8/2015 3:18:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
There is no more evidence for the existence of any deity than there is for the existence of fairies in which some people believe!
12_13
Posts: 1,361
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1/8/2015 2:07:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 5:13:10 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
2. The Bible is not the only source claimed to have accurate predictions.

I understand well that other books may also claim to have accurate predictions. But how many are as old and tell predictions that come true after thousands of years? Please give me one example.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,093
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1/8/2015 2:30:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 2:07:55 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 1/7/2015 5:13:10 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
2. The Bible is not the only source claimed to have accurate predictions.

I understand well that other books may also claim to have accurate predictions. But how many are as old and tell predictions that come true after thousands of years? Please give me one example.

Being 'more ancient' was not part of your original argument. You are moving the goalpost. Also, I said 'claimed' to have accurate predictions - I never conceded the prophecies of the Bible, or any other source, were true. I can't give you any example of fulfilled prophecy (including the Bible).
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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1/8/2015 2:46:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 7:28:42 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 1/7/2015 4:24:16 AM, darthebearnc wrote:
Hallo!

I was wondering if anybody can think of any valid proofs for God's existence. So far, I haven't seen any, but I'm wondering if there are any out there.

Thanks! :D

Newton's First Law of Motion - An object at rest stays at rest and an object in motion stays in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force.

"Newton's First Law of Motion - An object at rest stays at rest and an object in motion stays in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force." I think the actual law states "When viewed in an inertial reference frame, an object either remains at rest or continues to move at a constant velocity, unless acted upon by an external force." Please be accurate when quoting. Additionally, spacetime is not an object, it is a continuum and as such is not subject to Newton's laws of motion. Object within the continuum are subject to them except at the quantum level where things just get strange.


The Universe has had a rapid expansion after t-1 plank second. And has accelerating expansion since est. 7.5 billion years ago.

Actually, 13.8 billion or so.


This change must be attributed to an unbalanced force.

Unproven assumption. We do not have any idea what caused it as well as a further misstatement and misapplication of Newton's laws of motion.

Energy can not be destroyed or created. So the amount of ALL Energy in the Universe, no matter what kind of shape it takes has stayed the same.

The expansion of the universe should be uniform. It is not. The unbalanced force causing the accelerated expansion of the universe will be external to the universe.

See above. Misrepresentation and misdirection. The unbalanced nature of the universe has been examined and several hypotheses are under study.

We have no proper tools for distinguishing a natural force from the actions of an intelligent agent. Usually natural forces are always constant, can be experimented with, and observable.

All natural processes are subject to study and explanation. "I don't know" is not equivalent to an intelligent agent.

This external force to the universe has not always been present, has not been produced in the lab, can not be experimented on.

Which only demonstrates that no such force is present in nature.

Forces of nature in this universe lose strength as distance from the source increases. In an inverse square ratio. This external force does not exhibit such ratio.

"This external force to the universe has not always been present, has not been produced in the lab, can not be experimented on." Then how do you know it does not follow the inverse square law if you can neither detect nor measure it?


The external force causing the universe to accelerate it's expansion is not natural.

Unproven assertion and misapplication of Newton.

If not natural then by intelligent agent.

See above.

The external force causing the universe to accelerate it's expansion is an intelligent agent.

Unproven assertion, argument from ignorance and incredulity.

Dark Energy acting differently but being natural form of energy is special pleading.

Dark matter and dark matter are still only hypothetical and no one can say for certain that either exists though there is evidence of them by indirect measurement. Study continues.

therefore God. I.E. powerful enough to effect universe, intelligent, creator.

Unsupported conclusion, argument from ignorance and incredulity.
dhardage
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1/8/2015 3:31:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 1:52:44 AM, uncung wrote:
At 1/7/2015 4:24:16 AM, darthebearnc wrote:
Hallo!

I was wondering if anybody can think of any valid proofs for God's existence. So far, I haven't seen any, but I'm wondering if there are any out there.

Thanks! :D

Our universe is the legit evidence. The organized universe belongs to chemical, physical and mathematical performance must be created by someone. And we call it as God.

Unsupported assertion. Try again.