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How were we (humankind) developed?

ATRUE-ISRAELITE
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1/7/2015 3:23:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I see many atheists and other non believers saying there is no god. If there is no god, how were we, humankind, developed? What were we made from to exist today?
Commondebator
Posts: 58
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1/7/2015 6:43:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 3:23:16 PM, ATRUE-ISRAELITE wrote:
I see many atheists and other non believers saying there is no god. If there is no god, how were we, humankind, developed? What were we made from to exist today?

The question of development can easily be answered with evolution as well as-if not easier than god. Whats more, is that evolution actually has scientific evidence.

Evolution: Genetic mutations that get favored through natural selection that has scientific evidence supporting it
God: A being with unlimited power that created us because. . . Funsies?
XVIII18
Posts: 71
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1/7/2015 7:24:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Scientifically speaking evolution serves the best method to understand how we became a civilization. Science and history are the only scientifically adequate ways to prove this as they both give us evidence leading to ultimate conclusions/ facts.
dee-em
Posts: 6,481
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1/8/2015 7:19:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 3:23:16 PM, ATRUE-ISRAELITE wrote:
I see many atheists and other non believers saying there is no god. If there is no god, how were we, humankind, developed?

There is your problem right here with the use of the word 'developed'. You are presupposing that there was some intelligent agent at work. When you step back a little and make no such assumptions you will realize that we are only one of many, many millions of species which have existed on Earth. There is nothing particularly special about us compared to any other other life except for our oversized brains. It remains to be seen whether this will turn out to be a blessing or a curse given how young a species we are (only 200,000 years or so).

What were we made from to exist today?

Again you are making assumptions with the word "made'. We weren't made but had our evolutionary origins, as much as we can determine from the evidence, as follows:

http://en.wikipedia.org...
SNP1
Posts: 2,404
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1/8/2015 10:22:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 3:23:16 PM, ATRUE-ISRAELITE wrote:
I see many atheists and other non believers saying there is no god. If there is no god, how were we, humankind, developed? What were we made from to exist today?

Humans came about from evolution. Life came about from abiogenesis. The "ingredients" for abiogenesis came about due to planetary formation. The elements in planets came about through a stars nuclear fusion. Stars came about from lower elements +gravity. Lower elements came from the Big Bang. The Big Bang has no cause.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
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komododragon8
Posts: 405
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1/8/2015 10:41:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 3:23:16 PM, ATRUE-ISRAELITE wrote:
I see many atheists and other non believers saying there is no god. If there is no god, how were we, humankind, developed? What were we made from to exist today?

Big Bang, Star and planetary formation, Abiogenesis, and evolution. Thats just the simple rundown.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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1/8/2015 10:44:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 10:22:51 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 1/7/2015 3:23:16 PM, ATRUE-ISRAELITE wrote:
I see many atheists and other non believers saying there is no god. If there is no god, how were we, humankind, developed? What were we made from to exist today?

Humans came about from evolution. Life came about from abiogenesis. The "ingredients" for abiogenesis came about due to planetary formation. The elements in planets came about through a stars nuclear fusion. Stars came about from lower elements +gravity. Lower elements came from the Big Bang. The Big Bang has no cause.

It is metaphysically impossible for the Big Bang to have no cause. The Big Bang either began to exist with a cause ex-nihilo or a cause from something pre-existing. You agree that the big bang began to exist right?
ATRUE-ISRAELITE
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1/8/2015 10:46:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
So if we were created by evolution/ the big bang theory and stars, why don't we look like stars, the big bang theory/evolution? Why aren't we born into the evolution/the big bang theory/stars? I mean we should be what created us!
SNP1
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1/8/2015 10:55:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 10:44:09 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 1/8/2015 10:22:51 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 1/7/2015 3:23:16 PM, ATRUE-ISRAELITE wrote:
I see many atheists and other non believers saying there is no god. If there is no god, how were we, humankind, developed? What were we made from to exist today?

Humans came about from evolution. Life came about from abiogenesis. The "ingredients" for abiogenesis came about due to planetary formation. The elements in planets came about through a stars nuclear fusion. Stars came about from lower elements +gravity. Lower elements came from the Big Bang. The Big Bang has no cause.

It is metaphysically impossible for the Big Bang to have no cause. The Big Bang either began to exist with a cause ex-nihilo or a cause from something pre-existing. You agree that the big bang began to exist right?

We have gone over this before, and I am done talking to you about it. It is just a broken record. If you wish to discuss another topic, that is fine. I am just sick and tired of having to repeat myself to you.

I will state this, and this is the last thing I will say about the topic to you.
Under the B-Theory of Time, the universe has no cause.
Under the B-Theory of Time, if there is no spacetime, there is no universe.
There was no spacetime before the Big Bang.
Therefore, there was no universe before the Big Bang
***NOTE***
I am using the word before only to make it easier to understand. In reality, there is no such thing as before the Big Bang.
***ENDNOTE***
If the universe has no cause (which, under the B-Theory of Time is true), and the Big Bang is the first event in the universe, then one of 2 things are true about the Big Bang:
1) It has no cause.
2) The Big Bang was actually caused by spacetime's appearance, meaning there was spacetime before the Big Bang.

Now, knowing you, you would probably say that spacetime's appearance needs a cause. Thing is, under the B-Theory of Time, it does not. That is why I keep saying it is uncaused, because I just have a feeling you would keep moving the goalpost, and an uncaused Big Bang is a possibility.

Another thing, you keep saying it is metaphysically impossible for the Big Bang to not have a cause. I want you to show that sometime.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
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JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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1/8/2015 10:57:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I believe humans evolved and no deity was involved. I think science will one day provide conclusive evidence.
SNP1
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1/8/2015 10:57:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 10:46:14 AM, ATRUE-ISRAELITE wrote:
I mean we should be what created us!

Why? This statement makes no sense.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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1/8/2015 11:04:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 10:55:43 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 1/8/2015 10:44:09 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 1/8/2015 10:22:51 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 1/7/2015 3:23:16 PM, ATRUE-ISRAELITE wrote:
I see many atheists and other non believers saying there is no god. If there is no god, how were we, humankind, developed? What were we made from to exist today?

Humans came about from evolution. Life came about from abiogenesis. The "ingredients" for abiogenesis came about due to planetary formation. The elements in planets came about through a stars nuclear fusion. Stars came about from lower elements +gravity. Lower elements came from the Big Bang. The Big Bang has no cause.

It is metaphysically impossible for the Big Bang to have no cause. The Big Bang either began to exist with a cause ex-nihilo or a cause from something pre-existing. You agree that the big bang began to exist right?

We have gone over this before, and I am done talking to you about it. It is just a broken record. If you wish to discuss another topic, that is fine. I am just sick and tired of having to repeat myself to you.

I will state this, and this is the last thing I will say about the topic to you.
Under the B-Theory of Time, the universe has no cause.
Under the B-Theory of Time, if there is no spacetime, there is no universe.
There was no spacetime before the Big Bang.
Therefore, there was no universe before the Big Bang
***NOTE***
I am using the word before only to make it easier to understand. In reality, there is no such thing as before the Big Bang.
***ENDNOTE***
If the universe has no cause (which, under the B-Theory of Time is true), and the Big Bang is the first event in the universe, then one of 2 things are true about the Big Bang:
1) It has no cause.
2) The Big Bang was actually caused by spacetime's appearance, meaning there was spacetime before the Big Bang.

Now, knowing you, you would probably say that spacetime's appearance needs a cause. Thing is, under the B-Theory of Time, it does not. That is why I keep saying it is uncaused, because I just have a feeling you would keep moving the goalpost, and an uncaused Big Bang is a possibility.

Another thing, you keep saying it is metaphysically impossible for the Big Bang to not have a cause. I want you to show that sometime.

That's fine but it's based on a complete misunderstanding.

You're assuming that things don't need a cause under the B-theory of time because everything is a universal present. If the B-theory of time is true, we observe that things still need a cause.

Secondly, this is probably entirely based on william Lane Craig's Kalam argument. The misunderstanding comes from his second premise **the universe** began to exist. I agree that if the B-theory of time is true, the universe could not have begun to exist. Craig would agree with this as wel.

However, this doesn't mean that *the big bang* would have no cause.

There is absolutely nobody - scientist, physicist, philosopher - or otherwise I can imagine would argue that the Big Bang has no cause. It's would be like arguing that a triangle has 4 sides. Whenever anybody refers to the Big Bang as having no cause they mean a cause EX-NIHILO. Whatever begins to exist cannot appear without a pre-existing state whether it's from nothingness or from something. It's just logically impossible.
komododragon8
Posts: 405
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1/8/2015 11:13:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 10:46:14 AM, ATRUE-ISRAELITE wrote:
So if we were created by evolution/ the big bang theory and stars, why don't we look like stars, the big bang theory/evolution? Why aren't we born into the evolution/the big bang theory/stars? I mean we should be what created us!

Why?
ATRUE-ISRAELITE
Posts: 12
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1/8/2015 11:27:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'm confused at to what ya'll are saying. Ya'll say that the big bang theory/stars/evolution created us. What ever created us, that is where we should be coming from. How are we being born on earth, and not in the big bang theory/stars/evolution, which created us and where we originally came from?
dhardage
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1/8/2015 11:35:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 11:27:19 AM, ATRUE-ISRAELITE wrote:
I'm confused at to what ya'll are saying. Ya'll say that the big bang theory/stars/evolution created us. What ever created us, that is where we should be coming from. How are we being born on earth, and not in the big bang theory/stars/evolution, which created us and where we originally came from?

The elements in your body did come from stars. The calcium phosphorous, iron, even the hydrogen and nitrogen came from nuclear reactions of stars and gravity so you are star stuff. We came to be via all natural processes, we were not 'developed' or 'created' by any intelligent agent. It's not really difficult unless you want it to be.
ATRUE-ISRAELITE
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1/8/2015 11:44:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Do you have proof besides your words that we are stars? I mean, if the stars created us, why don't we look like stars and why aren't we born in space?
dhardage
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1/8/2015 11:48:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 11:44:52 AM, ATRUE-ISRAELITE wrote:
Do you have proof besides your words that we are stars? I mean, if the stars created us, why don't we look like stars and why aren't we born in space?

Now you're just being intentionally obtuse. What I said was the elements that make us are formed in stars, the heavy ones by supernovae that blow apart and spew them into space. It's like asking why an ear of corn doesn't look like the dirt it grew from. At least be honest with your questions and listen to the answers.
ATRUE-ISRAELITE
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1/8/2015 12:29:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
You said the elements in our body come from stars. Well the elements in our bodies make up our bodies. Without elements in our bodies, we'd have no bodies. So if elements in our bodies come from stars, we'd be stars. So the fact that you can't even prove that stars created us, proves that you don't know how we got here. If anything in space was to create us, we'd look like it and be born in it. If you want to ask me how we got here, I'm going to say The Most High. My evidence to back that up is the Bible. The reason why the Bible is not accurate to ya'll is because you don't know the Bible. Only YAHUAH's chosen children of Israel know the Bible because HE instilled that knowledge into us so that we can prepare for what is about to go down. If you don't read the Bible precept for precept, you will not understand it. If you've read through the Bible, I'm sure you just looked at the prophecies and thought, "well when did that ever happen?" but if you do not support that prophecy with precepts, then you are not going to understand why the prophecy hasn't been fulfilled yet, or if it ever happened, and you must also do deep research in history as well. If you don't back up those prophecies or other Scripture with precepts, it will cause you to doubt. So if you want proof that a "God" certainly does exist, just wait till our Saviour comes to take us (Israel) out of this captivity. I used to doubt, just like ya'll, until I began receiving visions and messages through dreams. I had no idea what they meant, but I opened up a Bible for the first time, and what was shown to me in my dreams, was and still is in the Bible. So if you want to call me delusional, crazy, etc.... that is fine by me, I could call you the same for believing our body elements came from stars, lol ahahaha :D

Oh, one more question. If ordinary regular people wrote the Bible, how did they know that all this that is currently taking place now, was going to happen specifically as the Bible states?
dhardage
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1/8/2015 12:46:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 12:29:58 PM, ATRUE-ISRAELITE wrote:
You said the elements in our body come from stars. Well the elements in our bodies make up our bodies. Without elements in our bodies, we'd have no bodies. So if elements in our bodies come from stars, we'd be stars. So the fact that you can't even prove that stars created us, proves that you don't know how we got here. If anything in space was to create us, we'd look like it and be born in it. If you want to ask me how we got here, I'm going to say The Most High. My evidence to back that up is the Bible. The reason why the Bible is not accurate to ya'll is because you don't know the Bible. Only YAHUAH's chosen children of Israel know the Bible because HE instilled that knowledge into us so that we can prepare for what is about to go down. If you don't read the Bible precept for precept, you will not understand it. If you've read through the Bible, I'm sure you just looked at the prophecies and thought, "well when did that ever happen?" but if you do not support that prophecy with precepts, then you are not going to understand why the prophecy hasn't been fulfilled yet, or if it ever happened, and you must also do deep research in history as well. If you don't back up those prophecies or other Scripture with precepts, it will cause you to doubt. So if you want proof that a "God" certainly does exist, just wait till our Saviour comes to take us (Israel) out of this captivity. I used to doubt, just like ya'll, until I began receiving visions and messages through dreams. I had no idea what they meant, but I opened up a Bible for the first time, and what was shown to me in my dreams, was and still is in the Bible. So if you want to call me delusional, crazy, etc.... that is fine by me, I could call you the same for believing our body elements came from stars, lol ahahaha :D

Oh, one more question. If ordinary regular people wrote the Bible, how did they know that all this that is currently taking place now, was going to happen specifically as the Bible states?

First, as I said, saying that we should be stars because stars built the elements that are in our body is similar to saying that an ear of cord should look like dirt since that's where it grew. Yes, you're either confused or obtuse, I'm not sure which.

If you can only claim divine revelation as your source then you have no real argument. You have no facts you can provide for verification and no evidence that can be tested and falsified.

Finally, nothing specific is written in your holy book. It's all vague and subject to interpretation and thus cannot be a source of true revelation or prophecy.
ATRUE-ISRAELITE
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1/8/2015 12:50:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Riiiggghhhttt, and you as well still cannot prove your claim. You still have not answered my question about how those so called authors of The Bible knew exactly when all this would take place. Another question, who came to Amerikkka on slave ships?
dhardage
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1/8/2015 12:59:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 12:50:32 PM, ATRUE-ISRAELITE wrote:
Riiiggghhhttt, and you as well still cannot prove your claim. You still have not answered my question about how those so called authors of The Bible knew exactly when all this would take place. Another question, who came to Amerikkka on slave ships?

We have concurrent observations of stars going supernova and spectrographic signatures of all of the elements I have discussed above. We have concurrent observations of stars and planetary systems forming all over our galaxy. We know where heavy elements come from. While we do not yet have conclusive evidence of how life began here, we do have good hypotheses that are currently being examined and tested to determine if they are valid. You, sir, have nothing.

I did answer your question. Nothing in your holy book is definite in time or place. It's vague and easily interpreted to fit a number of scenarios. The Antichrist has arisen two or three times so far and each time the world has not ended, just for an example.

May I suggest professional help? You seem to be having some difficulty telling fact from fiction and showing symptoms of paranoia.
ATRUE-ISRAELITE
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1/8/2015 1:02:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
And this is why I say you don't know the Bible. One, you still have not answered my question about who came on slave ships to Amerikkka and two, there is a difference in the Bible between Antichrist and antichrist, just to let you know! Many antichrist have risen, but the Antichrist had not yet risen!
SNP1
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1/8/2015 1:05:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I am calling POE here. There is no way that anyone can be this ignorant.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
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ATRUE-ISRAELITE
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1/8/2015 1:13:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The fact that you still cannot answer my question, shows that you're either afraid of the Bible or you simply have no clue what you are talking about! If you did not know, the so called "African Americans" came to Amerikkka on slave ships and went into slavery - Biblical Prophecy. The Native American's were the ones who found Amerikkka, but that white devil Christopher Columbus, slaughtered our men, raped our women and children, then killed them and took our land from us - Biblical Prophecy. The so called "African Americans" or Blacks, were sold to different nations - Biblical Prophecy. Those are just a few, but there are many more to list. It may be a waste of my time, to argue with someone who is scared of the Bible and who is so ignorant!
dhardage
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1/8/2015 1:37:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 1:13:08 PM, ATRUE-ISRAELITE wrote:
The fact that you still cannot answer my question, shows that you're either afraid of the Bible or you simply have no clue what you are talking about! If you did not know, the so called "African Americans" came to Amerikkka on slave ships and went into slavery - Biblical Prophecy. The Native American's were the ones who found Amerikkka, but that white devil Christopher Columbus, slaughtered our men, raped our women and children, then killed them and took our land from us - Biblical Prophecy. The so called "African Americans" or Blacks, were sold to different nations - Biblical Prophecy. Those are just a few, but there are many more to list. It may be a waste of my time, to argue with someone who is scared of the Bible and who is so ignorant!

"Our" women and children? Columbus never reached North America so he could not have troubled anyone in those Nations. Others, yes, Columbus, no. Tell Me, what Nation, Tribe, or People do you claim to be part of?

*chuckles* I stopped being scared of your holy book about the time I realized that the tooth fairy was my mother.
Benshapiro
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1/8/2015 1:47:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
SNP1 - The Big Bang had an origin at a T=0.

Something that has an origin must either originate from some thing or from no thing. Any other options are a logical impossibility. Imagine anything that began to exist from neither a thing or from nothing. It's impossible.
ATRUE-ISRAELITE
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1/8/2015 1:47:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Really, so then what did Mr. Columbus do? And I'm from the tribe of Judah! Yes that is correct, the "God" the Bible speaks of does not love everyone.
dhardage
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1/8/2015 1:55:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 1:47:18 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
SNP1 - The Big Bang had an origin at a T=0.

Something that has an origin must either originate from some thing or from no thing. Any other options are a logical impossibility. Imagine anything that began to exist from neither a thing or from nothing. It's impossible.

I refer you to the book "A Universe from Nothing"
Benshapiro
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1/8/2015 2:00:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 1:55:21 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 1/8/2015 1:47:18 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
SNP1 - The Big Bang had an origin at a T=0.

Something that has an origin must either originate from some thing or from no thing. Any other options are a logical impossibility. Imagine anything that began to exist from neither a thing or from nothing. It's impossible.

I refer you to the book "A Universe from Nothing"

"From nothing" would literally mean a cause ex-nihilo. "Nothing" in Kraus' book actually refers to a thing (space time) anyway so it's irrelevant.
SNP1
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1/8/2015 2:01:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 2:00:14 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 1/8/2015 1:55:21 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 1/8/2015 1:47:18 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
SNP1 - The Big Bang had an origin at a T=0.

Something that has an origin must either originate from some thing or from no thing. Any other options are a logical impossibility. Imagine anything that began to exist from neither a thing or from nothing. It's impossible.

I refer you to the book "A Universe from Nothing"

"From nothing" would literally mean a cause ex-nihilo. "Nothing" in Kraus' book actually refers to a thing (space time) anyway so it's irrelevant.

Have you read the book?
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
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