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Faith and knowledge

kasmic
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1/8/2015 10:22:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
This was a kind of journal entry I wrote a couple weeks ago, I just thought that I would share it and hopefully get some feedback.

Faith and Knowledge

"I know that he (God) loveth his children; nevertheless, I do not know the meaning of all things."

I feel that I have been blessed to be born in an age or reason, blessed to have been born in a society that educates, blessed to have been born into a family that acknowledges the spiritual. In short I feel as though I have been blessed with a degree of faith, knowledge, wisdom, and understanding.

I recognize that there do exists countless people who are more intelligent or spiritual adept than I. I also recognize that there is a vast chasm of things I do not know, much less understand. Nevertheless I am grateful for the things that I do know. Especially, the knowledge that God love his children, that he loves me. Knowledge is a blessing.

As I have grown in light and understanding, I have had questions and doubts. There have been times when what I "think" I know seems to be at odds with what I have been taught to be true. There have been times where I have been so prideful as to rely on my own wisdom rather than the wisdom of the Lord. This is obviously not the purpose of knowledge. I confess that the following verse has been, at times, descriptive of me.

"O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not."

Once while pondering this issue of pride and knowledge that I have dealt with, I heard a talk that relayed the story of Peter walking on water.

"And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea. And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear. But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid. And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water. And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus. But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me. And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?"

There are many things I have learned from this passage over the years, this particular time I thought to myself. Peter had faith to walk on water, then while walking he begins to doubt. I wanted to ask, as the Savior does, "Wherefore didst thou doubt."

Perhaps Peter while walking on water thought to himself" "This is impossible" This does not make sense" this experience does not fit with what I "Know" or "understand" about how things work." Why did Peter doubt, I do not know. I do know that I have been guilty of such "reasoning." Though I have never walked on water, I have had many spiritual experiences. I admit that sometimes, like Peter, I doubt in the midst of the experience and have found myself thinking "This is impossible" This does not make sense" This experience does not fit with what I "know" or "understand" about how things work. Only then to find myself "saying, lord save me."

I have, in my life been seemingly and simultaneously in a state of both doubt and believe. I identify with the father in the New Testament when he exclaimed.

"Lord I believe, help thou mine unbelief." (Mark 9:24)
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TrueScotsman
Posts: 515
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1/8/2015 10:35:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 10:22:09 AM, kasmic wrote:
This was a kind of journal entry I wrote a couple weeks ago, I just thought that I would share it and hopefully get some feedback.

Faith and Knowledge

"I know that he (God) loveth his children; nevertheless, I do not know the meaning of all things."

I feel that I have been blessed to be born in an age or reason, blessed to have been born in a society that educates, blessed to have been born into a family that acknowledges the spiritual. In short I feel as though I have been blessed with a degree of faith, knowledge, wisdom, and understanding.

I recognize that there do exists countless people who are more intelligent or spiritual adept than I. I also recognize that there is a vast chasm of things I do not know, much less understand. Nevertheless I am grateful for the things that I do know. Especially, the knowledge that God love his children, that he loves me. Knowledge is a blessing.

As I have grown in light and understanding, I have had questions and doubts. There have been times when what I "think" I know seems to be at odds with what I have been taught to be true. There have been times where I have been so prideful as to rely on my own wisdom rather than the wisdom of the Lord. This is obviously not the purpose of knowledge. I confess that the following verse has been, at times, descriptive of me.

"O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not."

Once while pondering this issue of pride and knowledge that I have dealt with, I heard a talk that relayed the story of Peter walking on water.

"And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea. And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear. But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid. And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water. And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus. But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me. And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?"

There are many things I have learned from this passage over the years, this particular time I thought to myself. Peter had faith to walk on water, then while walking he begins to doubt. I wanted to ask, as the Savior does, "Wherefore didst thou doubt."

Perhaps Peter while walking on water thought to himself" "This is impossible" This does not make sense" this experience does not fit with what I "Know" or "understand" about how things work." Why did Peter doubt, I do not know. I do know that I have been guilty of such "reasoning." Though I have never walked on water, I have had many spiritual experiences. I admit that sometimes, like Peter, I doubt in the midst of the experience and have found myself thinking "This is impossible" This does not make sense" This experience does not fit with what I "know" or "understand" about how things work. Only then to find myself "saying, lord save me."

I have, in my life been seemingly and simultaneously in a state of both doubt and believe. I identify with the father in the New Testament when he exclaimed.

"Lord I believe, help thou mine unbelief." (Mark 9:24)

I'm a theist myself, though I do not know if Gnostic Theism is truly a justifiable position just like Gnostic Atheism. Sure, I think there is evidence, but true justifiable knowledge I think can only be an assertion.

I think there is some element where there is a leap of faith of sorts. I chose faith for myself.
kasmic
Posts: 1,302
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1/8/2015 10:38:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'm a theist myself, though I do not know if Gnostic Theism is truly a justifiable position just like Gnostic Atheism. Sure, I think there is evidence, but true justifiable knowledge I think can only be an assertion.

I think there is some element where there is a leap of faith of sorts. I chose faith for myself.

When you say chose faith, as opposed to choosing....?

Can you expound on what you mean by true justifiable knowledge can only be an assertion.
"Liberalism Defined" http://www.debate.org...
"The Social Contract" http://www.debate.org...
"Intro to IR An Open Discussion" http://www.debate.org...

Check out my website, the Sensible Soapbox http://www.sensiblesoapbox.com...
My latest article: http://www.sensiblesoapbox.com...
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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1/8/2015 10:44:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
People of faith might genuinely believe the have the 'truth', but they cannot produce any verifiable evidence to prove it is so.
TrueScotsman
Posts: 515
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1/8/2015 10:46:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 10:38:46 AM, kasmic wrote:
I'm a theist myself, though I do not know if Gnostic Theism is truly a justifiable position just like Gnostic Atheism. Sure, I think there is evidence, but true justifiable knowledge I think can only be an assertion.

I think there is some element where there is a leap of faith of sorts. I chose faith for myself.

When you say chose faith, as opposed to choosing....?

Can you expound on what you mean by true justifiable knowledge can only be an assertion.

This is dealing with Epistemology, the study and nature of knowledge. I personally don't think the arguments for having knowledge of God are super firm and justifiable as being called "knowledge." That's the conclusion I have personally come to.

However, I have personally chosen to view the universe through the lens of theism, because it makes the most sense to me personally. The alternative would be Agnostic Atheism, where one believes that knowledge of God is not possible and does not therefore believe in God.
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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1/8/2015 11:33:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 10:46:39 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 1/8/2015 10:38:46 AM, kasmic wrote:
I'm a theist myself, though I do not know if Gnostic Theism is truly a justifiable position just like Gnostic Atheism. Sure, I think there is evidence, but true justifiable knowledge I think can only be an assertion.

I think there is some element where there is a leap of faith of sorts. I chose faith for myself.

When you say chose faith, as opposed to choosing....?

Can you expound on what you mean by true justifiable knowledge can only be an assertion.

This is dealing with Epistemology, the study and nature of knowledge. I personally don't think the arguments for having knowledge of God are super firm and justifiable as being called "knowledge." That's the conclusion I have personally come to.

However, I have personally chosen to view the universe through the lens of theism, because it makes the most sense to me personally. The alternative would be Agnostic Atheism, where one believes that knowledge of God is not possible and does not therefore believe in God.

I am an agnostic who believes that it is unlikely the Biblical deity or any other deity for that matter exists, but as there is no evidence either way, its existence cannot be entirely ruled out!
Impartial
Posts: 375
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1/10/2015 1:26:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think in a moral sense, there must always be a distinction between faith and knowledge. To accept something as true without proof is not only unecessesary but it can be an incredibly dangerous mindset. I use this example a lot, but a suicide bomber wouldn't blow himself up if he thought it might be his God's will, no, he does it because he is utterly convinced of it.
To believe is to know nothing.