Total Posts:40|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Blodless surgery growing in popularity

MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/9/2015 9:12:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I won"t bother with the scriptural view for once, lol, I'll just direct you to "the horse"s mouth" so to speak.

http://www.mdnews.com...

Needless to say that I, and all JWs are glad that the Medical profession have started to listen to the Hospital Liaison Committee after all it's hard work educating them in the truths of their own professions that they are not taught.

More power to the efforts of the Brothers in that Committee and the thousands of surgeons worldwide who have followed their lead, and that of Dr Denton Cooley, a non-JW heart surgeon and pioneer of heart transplants in the USA who has been championing bloodless surgery for decades because of the successes he has had with JW patients he has helped.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,074
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/9/2015 9:15:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/9/2015 9:12:56 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I won"t bother with the scriptural view for once, lol, I'll just direct you to "the horse"s mouth" so to speak.

http://www.mdnews.com...


Needless to say that I, and all JWs are glad that the Medical profession have started to listen to the Hospital Liaison Committee after all it's hard work educating them in the truths of their own professions that they are not taught.

More power to the efforts of the Brothers in that Committee and the thousands of surgeons worldwide who have followed their lead, and that of Dr Denton Cooley, a non-JW heart surgeon and pioneer of heart transplants in the USA who has been championing bloodless surgery for decades because of the successes he has had with JW patients he has helped.

I am glad that this is becoming a developing procedure.
In the future this may save the lives of many Jehovah's Witnesses.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/9/2015 9:16:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/9/2015 9:12:56 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I won"t bother with the scriptural view for once, lol, I'll just direct you to "the horse"s mouth" so to speak.

http://www.mdnews.com...


Needless to say that I, and all JWs are glad that the Medical profession have started to listen to the Hospital Liaison Committee after all it's hard work educating them in the truths of their own professions that they are not taught.

More power to the efforts of the Brothers in that Committee and the thousands of surgeons worldwide who have followed their lead, and that of Dr Denton Cooley, a non-JW heart surgeon and pioneer of heart transplants in the USA who has been championing bloodless surgery for decades because of the successes he has had with JW patients he has helped.

You are a wanker of the lowest order. Mad, you are insane and need serious care. There is not any evidence of you insane claims.
Your cold dark cave awaits.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/9/2015 9:17:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/9/2015 9:15:53 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 1/9/2015 9:12:56 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I won"t bother with the scriptural view for once, lol, I'll just direct you to "the horse"s mouth" so to speak.

http://www.mdnews.com...


Needless to say that I, and all JWs are glad that the Medical profession have started to listen to the Hospital Liaison Committee after all it's hard work educating them in the truths of their own professions that they are not taught.

More power to the efforts of the Brothers in that Committee and the thousands of surgeons worldwide who have followed their lead, and that of Dr Denton Cooley, a non-JW heart surgeon and pioneer of heart transplants in the USA who has been championing bloodless surgery for decades because of the successes he has had with JW patients he has helped.

I am glad that this is becoming a developing procedure.
In the future this may save the lives of many Jehovah's Witnesses.

Why would that be a good thing for people who are desperate to die?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,074
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/9/2015 9:19:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/9/2015 9:17:57 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 1/9/2015 9:15:53 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 1/9/2015 9:12:56 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I won"t bother with the scriptural view for once, lol, I'll just direct you to "the horse"s mouth" so to speak.

http://www.mdnews.com...


Needless to say that I, and all JWs are glad that the Medical profession have started to listen to the Hospital Liaison Committee after all it's hard work educating them in the truths of their own professions that they are not taught.

More power to the efforts of the Brothers in that Committee and the thousands of surgeons worldwide who have followed their lead, and that of Dr Denton Cooley, a non-JW heart surgeon and pioneer of heart transplants in the USA who has been championing bloodless surgery for decades because of the successes he has had with JW patients he has helped.

I am glad that this is becoming a developing procedure.
In the future this may save the lives of many Jehovah's Witnesses.

Why would that be a good thing for people who are desperate to die?

Why do you claim they are "desperate to die"?
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/9/2015 9:23:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Why would a jw want to continue his/her life when they know that everlasting servitude is the goal that they are so desperate to achieve?
When they die they immediately resurrect into a new life of pure agricultural slavery, Why do they fear death?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/9/2015 9:25:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/9/2015 9:19:06 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 1/9/2015 9:17:57 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 1/9/2015 9:15:53 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 1/9/2015 9:12:56 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I won"t bother with the scriptural view for once, lol, I'll just direct you to "the horse"s mouth" so to speak.

http://www.mdnews.com...


Needless to say that I, and all JWs are glad that the Medical profession have started to listen to the Hospital Liaison Committee after all it's hard work educating them in the truths of their own professions that they are not taught.

More power to the efforts of the Brothers in that Committee and the thousands of surgeons worldwide who have followed their lead, and that of Dr Denton Cooley, a non-JW heart surgeon and pioneer of heart transplants in the USA who has been championing bloodless surgery for decades because of the successes he has had with JW patients he has helped.

I am glad that this is becoming a developing procedure.
In the future this may save the lives of many Jehovah's Witnesses.

Why would that be a good thing for people who are desperate to die?

Why do you claim they are "desperate to die"?

Harmageddon is their salvation and it is the death of everyone.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/9/2015 9:47:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/9/2015 9:12:56 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I won"t bother with the scriptural view for once, lol, I'll just direct you to "the horse"s mouth" so to speak.

http://www.mdnews.com...


Needless to say that I, and all JWs are glad that the Medical profession have started to listen to the Hospital Liaison Committee after all it's hard work educating them in the truths of their own professions that they are not taught.

More power to the efforts of the Brothers in that Committee and the thousands of surgeons worldwide who have followed their lead, and that of Dr Denton Cooley, a non-JW heart surgeon and pioneer of heart transplants in the USA who has been championing bloodless surgery for decades because of the successes he has had with JW patients he has helped.

I think that this is a great advancement in medicine. I'm a little concerned that JWs refuse blood transplants and die as a result. It seems a little phobic and to the extreme to me. But, hey! It's your thing.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/9/2015 9:56:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Guess what softy.
There are very many surgeries that don't require blood transfusions. But I like the fact that when that requirement manifests itself during surgery the poor deluded jehovians would rather die.
One less nutter.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/9/2015 11:25:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/9/2015 9:56:10 AM, bulproof wrote:
Guess what softy.
There are very many surgeries that don't require blood transfusions. But I like the fact that when that requirement manifests itself during surgery the poor deluded jehovians would rather die.
One less nutter.

Except that more often than not they are the ones that don't, sorry.

And even if they do, they are the ones that will live again after, so they win.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/9/2015 11:37:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/9/2015 9:47:30 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 1/9/2015 9:12:56 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I won"t bother with the scriptural view for once, lol, I'll just direct you to "the horse"s mouth" so to speak.

http://www.mdnews.com...


Needless to say that I, and all JWs are glad that the Medical profession have started to listen to the Hospital Liaison Committee after all it's hard work educating them in the truths of their own professions that they are not taught.

More power to the efforts of the Brothers in that Committee and the thousands of surgeons worldwide who have followed their lead, and that of Dr Denton Cooley, a non-JW heart surgeon and pioneer of heart transplants in the USA who has been championing bloodless surgery for decades because of the successes he has had with JW patients he has helped.

I think that this is a great advancement in medicine. I'm a little concerned that JWs refuse blood transplants and die as a result. It seems a little phobic and to the extreme to me. But, hey! It's your thing.

But do they?

The problem is that whilst you can prove that some have died because they were refused any form of transfusion you cannot prove that they would not have died had they been allowed to have the alternatives they requested.

The other problem is that whilst you can also prove that many have been saved by transfusions you cannot prove that those who had blood in them were saved by the blood.

Ye anothe3r problem we have is that it is impossible to prove how many who died having blood transfusion were killed by the blood in the transfusion.

You know what they say, Figures can"t lie, but liars sure can figure. In fact the figures are meaningless without the answer to the three problems above, and that is impossible to find out for a certainty

Why would open heart surgeons like Dr Denton Cooley support bloodless surgery for his heart patients if he didn"t believe it to be better? He uses Ringers Lactate as a substitute, and has done for decades now, simply because he found he got a 7% better recovery rate then when he is forced by patient choice to use blood.

It is also a fact that many JWs have died, not because they didn"t have a blood transfusion, but simply because they were refused the alternatives, of which there are many. Why could the hospitals not let them have the alternatives and then blame them if they died? I will never understand that.

If they had been given the alternatives and then died the hospital would not have been to blame, and JWs have always been happy to sign anything that took responsibility away from the hospitals.

However, at least dying faithful to God and Christ guarantees a resurrection.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/9/2015 11:43:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/9/2015 9:23:32 AM, bulproof wrote:
Why would a jw want to continue his/her life when they know that everlasting servitude is the goal that they are so desperate to achieve?
When they die they immediately resurrect into a new life of pure agricultural slavery, Why do they fear death?

Well are younot in servitude at the moment? or are you either unemployed or retired? I'd ratehr be in servitude to God than any human boss.

Been there done that, retired at last.

However in a sense you have a point, though we have to show that we appreciate the life we have, if not as much as the one to come, so any JW will accept any treatment whchi does not violate God's laws.

We also have to show that we really do trust God's promises, as Abraham did.

The trouble comes in when, as has so often happened, they are refused alternative treatments.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/9/2015 11:45:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/9/2015 9:25:03 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 1/9/2015 9:19:06 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 1/9/2015 9:17:57 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 1/9/2015 9:15:53 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 1/9/2015 9:12:56 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I won"t bother with the scriptural view for once, lol, I'll just direct you to "the horse"s mouth" so to speak.

http://www.mdnews.com...


Needless to say that I, and all JWs are glad that the Medical profession have started to listen to the Hospital Liaison Committee after all it's hard work educating them in the truths of their own professions that they are not taught.

More power to the efforts of the Brothers in that Committee and the thousands of surgeons worldwide who have followed their lead, and that of Dr Denton Cooley, a non-JW heart surgeon and pioneer of heart transplants in the USA who has been championing bloodless surgery for decades because of the successes he has had with JW patients he has helped.

I am glad that this is becoming a developing procedure.
In the future this may save the lives of many Jehovah's Witnesses.

Why would that be a good thing for people who are desperate to die?

Why do you claim they are "desperate to die"?

Harmageddon is their salvation and it is the death of everyone.

Well of everyone who causes troubloe for God's people yes, like you at the moment unless you change.

God quite rightly looks after his own.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/9/2015 11:46:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/9/2015 9:19:06 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 1/9/2015 9:17:57 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 1/9/2015 9:15:53 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 1/9/2015 9:12:56 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I won"t bother with the scriptural view for once, lol, I'll just direct you to "the horse"s mouth" so to speak.

http://www.mdnews.com...


Needless to say that I, and all JWs are glad that the Medical profession have started to listen to the Hospital Liaison Committee after all it's hard work educating them in the truths of their own professions that they are not taught.

More power to the efforts of the Brothers in that Committee and the thousands of surgeons worldwide who have followed their lead, and that of Dr Denton Cooley, a non-JW heart surgeon and pioneer of heart transplants in the USA who has been championing bloodless surgery for decades because of the successes he has had with JW patients he has helped.

I am glad that this is becoming a developing procedure.
In the future this may save the lives of many Jehovah's Witnesses.

Why would that be a good thing for people who are desperate to die?

Why do you claim they are "desperate to die"?

No, they aren't desperate to die, but they don;t fear it eitehr because they know that death can be a gateway to beetter things, and will be for the faithful.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/9/2015 11:53:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/9/2015 9:16:29 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 1/9/2015 9:12:56 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I won"t bother with the scriptural view for once, lol, I'll just direct you to "the horse"s mouth" so to speak.

http://www.mdnews.com...


Needless to say that I, and all JWs are glad that the Medical profession have started to listen to the Hospital Liaison Committee after all it's hard work educating them in the truths of their own professions that they are not taught.

More power to the efforts of the Brothers in that Committee and the thousands of surgeons worldwide who have followed their lead, and that of Dr Denton Cooley, a non-JW heart surgeon and pioneer of heart transplants in the USA who has been championing bloodless surgery for decades because of the successes he has had with JW patients he has helped.

You are a wanker of the lowest order. Mad, you are insane and need serious care. There is not any evidence of you insane claims.
Your cold dark cave awaits.

Oh there is a lot of evidence you are just frightened to accept it.

If there were not I would not have the faith I have.

The trouble is you have been too thoroughyly brainwashed by Satan's system.

Let's face it, Dr Denton Cooley has spent decades, proving over and again thast alt3ernative transfusion fluids are better than blood, nad has the figures to prove it. And he isn't even a JW. But will people like you listen to him or look at his evidence.

Nope.

Because they are scared witless of being proved wrong.

Talk about blind.

However, the Hopital Liaison Committee have finally had success. Then again that job was, and is, the entire focus of their lives, for the sake of their brothers, and the love of God.
komododragon8
Posts: 405
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/9/2015 11:54:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/9/2015 9:16:29 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 1/9/2015 9:12:56 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I won"t bother with the scriptural view for once, lol, I'll just direct you to "the horse"s mouth" so to speak.

http://www.mdnews.com...


Needless to say that I, and all JWs are glad that the Medical profession have started to listen to the Hospital Liaison Committee after all it's hard work educating them in the truths of their own professions that they are not taught.

More power to the efforts of the Brothers in that Committee and the thousands of surgeons worldwide who have followed their lead, and that of Dr Denton Cooley, a non-JW heart surgeon and pioneer of heart transplants in the USA who has been championing bloodless surgery for decades because of the successes he has had with JW patients he has helped.

You are a wanker of the lowest order. Mad, you are insane and need serious care. There is not any evidence of you insane claims.
Your cold dark cave awaits.

Seriously dude, quit being a bully.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,223
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/9/2015 11:56:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/9/2015 11:25:42 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/9/2015 9:56:10 AM, bulproof wrote:
Guess what softy.
There are very many surgeries that don't require blood transfusions. But I like the fact that when that requirement manifests itself during surgery the poor deluded jehovians would rather die.
One less nutter.

Except that more often than not they are the ones that don't, sorry.

And even if they do, they are the ones that will live again after, so they win.

Which calls into question why they would want such a surgery in the first place.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/9/2015 11:56:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/9/2015 9:15:53 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 1/9/2015 9:12:56 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I won"t bother with the scriptural view for once, lol, I'll just direct you to "the horse"s mouth" so to speak.

http://www.mdnews.com...


Needless to say that I, and all JWs are glad that the Medical profession have started to listen to the Hospital Liaison Committee after all it's hard work educating them in the truths of their own professions that they are not taught.

More power to the efforts of the Brothers in that Committee and the thousands of surgeons worldwide who have followed their lead, and that of Dr Denton Cooley, a non-JW heart surgeon and pioneer of heart transplants in the USA who has been championing bloodless surgery for decades because of the successes he has had with JW patients he has helped.

I am glad that this is becoming a developing procedure.
In the future this may save the lives of many Jehovah's Witnesses.

Thank you for your compassion.

Yes, it is just a shame it has come too late for the families of all those who died because they were refused alternative treatment whihc could have saved them.

At least they are at peace, awaiting the resurrection, it is the living who are left to suffer who miss them so much.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/9/2015 12:02:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/9/2015 11:56:11 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 1/9/2015 11:25:42 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/9/2015 9:56:10 AM, bulproof wrote:
Guess what softy.
There are very many surgeries that don't require blood transfusions. But I like the fact that when that requirement manifests itself during surgery the poor deluded jehovians would rather die.
One less nutter.

Except that more often than not they are the ones that don't, sorry.

And even if they do, they are the ones that will live again after, so they win.

Which calls into question why they would want such a surgery in the first place.

Because it is our duty to do all we can, within God's law, to preserve the life God gave us, much as we long for the one that is to come.

All life is a gift from God, even this second rate one, and not to be thrown back in his face
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/9/2015 12:04:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/9/2015 11:54:15 AM, komododragon8 wrote:
At 1/9/2015 9:16:29 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 1/9/2015 9:12:56 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I won"t bother with the scriptural view for once, lol, I'll just direct you to "the horse"s mouth" so to speak.

http://www.mdnews.com...


Needless to say that I, and all JWs are glad that the Medical profession have started to listen to the Hospital Liaison Committee after all it's hard work educating them in the truths of their own professions that they are not taught.

More power to the efforts of the Brothers in that Committee and the thousands of surgeons worldwide who have followed their lead, and that of Dr Denton Cooley, a non-JW heart surgeon and pioneer of heart transplants in the USA who has been championing bloodless surgery for decades because of the successes he has had with JW patients he has helped.

You are a wanker of the lowest order. Mad, you are insane and need serious care. There is not any evidence of you insane claims.
Your cold dark cave awaits.

Seriously dude, quit being a bully.

Don't worry, it frustrates him that it runs off my back like water off a ducks, lol.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/9/2015 12:06:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/9/2015 9:47:30 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 1/9/2015 9:12:56 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I won"t bother with the scriptural view for once, lol, I'll just direct you to "the horse"s mouth" so to speak.

http://www.mdnews.com...


Needless to say that I, and all JWs are glad that the Medical profession have started to listen to the Hospital Liaison Committee after all it's hard work educating them in the truths of their own professions that they are not taught.

More power to the efforts of the Brothers in that Committee and the thousands of surgeons worldwide who have followed their lead, and that of Dr Denton Cooley, a non-JW heart surgeon and pioneer of heart transplants in the USA who has been championing bloodless surgery for decades because of the successes he has had with JW patients he has helped.

I think that this is a great advancement in medicine. I'm a little concerned that JWs refuse blood transplants and die as a result. It seems a little phobic and to the extreme to me. But, hey! It's your thing.

Yes, it is a great advance form which all will benefit, and love 'em or hate 'em, teh whole world has Jehovah and his wWitnesses to thank for it. It is oly teh rpesistence to the Hospital Liaison Committee that has brought it about.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,223
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/9/2015 12:16:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/9/2015 12:02:53 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/9/2015 11:56:11 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 1/9/2015 11:25:42 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/9/2015 9:56:10 AM, bulproof wrote:
Guess what softy.
There are very many surgeries that don't require blood transfusions. But I like the fact that when that requirement manifests itself during surgery the poor deluded jehovians would rather die.
One less nutter.

Except that more often than not they are the ones that don't, sorry.

And even if they do, they are the ones that will live again after, so they win.

Which calls into question why they would want such a surgery in the first place.

Because it is our duty to do all we can, within God's law, to preserve the life God gave us, much as we long for the one that is to come.

Goal post move. Its not within God's law to preserve human life when such a circumstance is a foregone conclusion. Were the person on the operating table to be one universally agreed as virtuous, it would make no sense to protect them, it literally would be ushering on God's will. If God gave us something after that is wholly dependent on the present, there is no reason for Him to insert Himself beyond malevolence, and there is no reason for us to protect life beyond skepticism.

All life is a gift from God, even this second rate one, and not to be thrown back in his face
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/9/2015 1:18:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/9/2015 9:12:56 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I won"t bother with the scriptural view for once, lol, I'll just direct you to "the horse"s mouth" so to speak.

http://www.mdnews.com...


Needless to say that I, and all JWs are glad that the Medical profession have started to listen to the Hospital Liaison Committee after all it's hard work educating them in the truths of their own professions that they are not taught.

More power to the efforts of the Brothers in that Committee and the thousands of surgeons worldwide who have followed their lead, and that of Dr Denton Cooley, a non-JW heart surgeon and pioneer of heart transplants in the USA who has been championing bloodless surgery for decades because of the successes he has had with JW patients he has helped.

Excellent, now let's apply this to condoms and vaccines and see what happens.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/9/2015 2:17:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/9/2015 12:16:41 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 1/9/2015 12:02:53 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/9/2015 11:56:11 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 1/9/2015 11:25:42 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/9/2015 9:56:10 AM, bulproof wrote:
Guess what softy.
There are very many surgeries that don't require blood transfusions. But I like the fact that when that requirement manifests itself during surgery the poor deluded jehovians would rather die.
One less nutter.

Except that more often than not they are the ones that don't, sorry.

And even if they do, they are the ones that will live again after, so they win.

Which calls into question why they would want such a surgery in the first place.

Because it is our duty to do all we can, within God's law, to preserve the life God gave us, much as we long for the one that is to come.

Goal post move. Its not within God's law to preserve human life when such a circumstance is a foregone conclusion. Were the person on the operating table to be one universally agreed as virtuous, it would make no sense to protect them, it literally would be ushering on God's will. If God gave us something after that is wholly dependent on the present, there is no reason for Him to insert Himself beyond malevolence, and there is no reason for us to protect life beyond skepticism.

All life is a gift from God, even this second rate one, and not to be thrown back in his face

No, not a goal post mocve, simlply further clarification, lol.

It's all very well your not missing a trick, lol,but teh least you could do is get it right.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/9/2015 2:18:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/9/2015 1:18:06 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 1/9/2015 9:12:56 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I won"t bother with the scriptural view for once, lol, I'll just direct you to "the horse"s mouth" so to speak.

http://www.mdnews.com...


Needless to say that I, and all JWs are glad that the Medical profession have started to listen to the Hospital Liaison Committee after all it's hard work educating them in the truths of their own professions that they are not taught.

More power to the efforts of the Brothers in that Committee and the thousands of surgeons worldwide who have followed their lead, and that of Dr Denton Cooley, a non-JW heart surgeon and pioneer of heart transplants in the USA who has been championing bloodless surgery for decades because of the successes he has had with JW patients he has helped.

Excellent, now let's apply this to condoms and vaccines and see what happens.

As far as I am aware there is no scriptural restriction on either of those.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,223
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/9/2015 2:52:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/9/2015 2:17:12 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/9/2015 12:16:41 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 1/9/2015 12:02:53 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/9/2015 11:56:11 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 1/9/2015 11:25:42 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/9/2015 9:56:10 AM, bulproof wrote:
Guess what softy.
There are very many surgeries that don't require blood transfusions. But I like the fact that when that requirement manifests itself during surgery the poor deluded jehovians would rather die.
One less nutter.

Except that more often than not they are the ones that don't, sorry.

And even if they do, they are the ones that will live again after, so they win.

Which calls into question why they would want such a surgery in the first place.

Because it is our duty to do all we can, within God's law, to preserve the life God gave us, much as we long for the one that is to come.

Goal post move. Its not within God's law to preserve human life when such a circumstance is a foregone conclusion. Were the person on the operating table to be one universally agreed as virtuous, it would make no sense to protect them, it literally would be ushering on God's will. If God gave us something after that is wholly dependent on the present, there is no reason for Him to insert Himself beyond malevolence, and there is no reason for us to protect life beyond skepticism.

All life is a gift from God, even this second rate one, and not to be thrown back in his face

No, not a goal post mocve, simlply further clarification, lol.

It's all very well your not missing a trick, lol,but teh least you could do is get it right.

Is that your justification/explanation? No, really, is THAT what you are choosing to justify the almighty with?
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/9/2015 4:33:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/9/2015 2:52:13 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 1/9/2015 2:17:12 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/9/2015 12:16:41 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 1/9/2015 12:02:53 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/9/2015 11:56:11 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 1/9/2015 11:25:42 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/9/2015 9:56:10 AM, bulproof wrote:
Guess what softy.
There are very many surgeries that don't require blood transfusions. But I like the fact that when that requirement manifests itself during surgery the poor deluded jehovians would rather die.
One less nutter.

Except that more often than not they are the ones that don't, sorry.

And even if they do, they are the ones that will live again after, so they win.

Which calls into question why they would want such a surgery in the first place.

Because it is our duty to do all we can, within God's law, to preserve the life God gave us, much as we long for the one that is to come.

Goal post move. Its not within God's law to preserve human life when such a circumstance is a foregone conclusion. Were the person on the operating table to be one universally agreed as virtuous, it would make no sense to protect them, it literally would be ushering on God's will. If God gave us something after that is wholly dependent on the present, there is no reason for Him to insert Himself beyond malevolence, and there is no reason for us to protect life beyond skepticism.

All life is a gift from God, even this second rate one, and not to be thrown back in his face

No, not a goal post mocve, simlply further clarification, lol.

It's all very well your not missing a trick, lol,but teh least you could do is get it right.

Is that your justification/explanation? No, really, is THAT what you are choosing to justify the almighty with?

God doesn;t nned justifying, he is always right whatever we may think.
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/9/2015 6:20:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/9/2015 11:37:24 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/9/2015 9:47:30 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 1/9/2015 9:12:56 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I won"t bother with the scriptural view for once, lol, I'll just direct you to "the horse"s mouth" so to speak.

http://www.mdnews.com...


Needless to say that I, and all JWs are glad that the Medical profession have started to listen to the Hospital Liaison Committee after all it's hard work educating them in the truths of their own professions that they are not taught.

More power to the efforts of the Brothers in that Committee and the thousands of surgeons worldwide who have followed their lead, and that of Dr Denton Cooley, a non-JW heart surgeon and pioneer of heart transplants in the USA who has been championing bloodless surgery for decades because of the successes he has had with JW patients he has helped.

I think that this is a great advancement in medicine. I'm a little concerned that JWs refuse blood transplants and die as a result. It seems a little phobic and to the extreme to me. But, hey! It's your thing.

But do they?

The problem is that whilst you can prove that some have died because they were refused any form of transfusion you cannot prove that they would not have died had they been allowed to have the alternatives they requested.

The other problem is that whilst you can also prove that many have been saved by transfusions you cannot prove that those who had blood in them were saved by the blood.

Ye anothe3r problem we have is that it is impossible to prove how many who died having blood transfusion were killed by the blood in the transfusion.

You know what they say, Figures can"t lie, but liars sure can figure. In fact the figures are meaningless without the answer to the three problems above, and that is impossible to find out for a certainty

Why would open heart surgeons like Dr Denton Cooley support bloodless surgery for his heart patients if he didn"t believe it to be better? He uses Ringers Lactate as a substitute, and has done for decades now, simply because he found he got a 7% better recovery rate then when he is forced by patient choice to use blood.

It is also a fact that many JWs have died, not because they didn"t have a blood transfusion, but simply because they were refused the alternatives, of which there are many. Why could the hospitals not let them have the alternatives and then blame them if they died? I will never understand that.

If they had been given the alternatives and then died the hospital would not have been to blame, and JWs have always been happy to sign anything that took responsibility away from the hospitals.


However, at least dying faithful to God and Christ guarantees a resurrection.

Like I said, I'm happy for the advancements for bloodless surgery. And yes, people who will not or cannot receive a blood transfusion will benefit immensely from this. However there are situations where loss of blood is a complication of something other than surgery. Would a JW refuse a life saving transfusion after say, almost bleeding to death resulting from childbirth? And what purpose does it serve to believe something like this if someone close to you like a daughter or grand daughter dies from blood loss related to childbirth?
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/9/2015 7:10:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/9/2015 6:20:48 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 1/9/2015 11:37:24 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/9/2015 9:47:30 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 1/9/2015 9:12:56 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I won"t bother with the scriptural view for once, lol, I'll just direct you to "the horse"s mouth" so to speak.

http://www.mdnews.com...


Needless to say that I, and all JWs are glad that the Medical profession have started to listen to the Hospital Liaison Committee after all it's hard work educating them in the truths of their own professions that they are not taught.

More power to the efforts of the Brothers in that Committee and the thousands of surgeons worldwide who have followed their lead, and that of Dr Denton Cooley, a non-JW heart surgeon and pioneer of heart transplants in the USA who has been championing bloodless surgery for decades because of the successes he has had with JW patients he has helped.

I think that this is a great advancement in medicine. I'm a little concerned that JWs refuse blood transplants and die as a result. It seems a little phobic and to the extreme to me. But, hey! It's your thing.

But do they?

The problem is that whilst you can prove that some have died because they were refused any form of transfusion you cannot prove that they would not have died had they been allowed to have the alternatives they requested.

The other problem is that whilst you can also prove that many have been saved by transfusions you cannot prove that those who had blood in them were saved by the blood.

Ye anothe3r problem we have is that it is impossible to prove how many who died having blood transfusion were killed by the blood in the transfusion.

You know what they say, Figures can"t lie, but liars sure can figure. In fact the figures are meaningless without the answer to the three problems above, and that is impossible to find out for a certainty

Why would open heart surgeons like Dr Denton Cooley support bloodless surgery for his heart patients if he didn"t believe it to be better? He uses Ringers Lactate as a substitute, and has done for decades now, simply because he found he got a 7% better recovery rate then when he is forced by patient choice to use blood.

It is also a fact that many JWs have died, not because they didn"t have a blood transfusion, but simply because they were refused the alternatives, of which there are many. Why could the hospitals not let them have the alternatives and then blame them if they died? I will never understand that.

If they had been given the alternatives and then died the hospital would not have been to blame, and JWs have always been happy to sign anything that took responsibility away from the hospitals.


However, at least dying faithful to God and Christ guarantees a resurrection.

Like I said, I'm happy for the advancements for bloodless surgery. And yes, people who will not or cannot receive a blood transfusion will benefit immensely from this. However there are situations where loss of blood is a complication of something other than surgery. Would a JW refuse a life saving transfusion after say, almost bleeding to death resulting from childbirth? And what purpose does it serve to believe something like this if someone close to you like a daughter or grand daughter dies from blood loss related to childbirth?

Not if it didn't have blood in it.

As Christ said, to be saved one has to be faithful to death, If I were to take a blood transfusion I would not be faithful unto death would I?

Anyway if push came to shove I am happy with the idea of a nice long dreameless sleep until the resurrection. Its the perfect back up plan.
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/9/2015 7:18:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/9/2015 7:10:09 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/9/2015 6:20:48 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 1/9/2015 11:37:24 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/9/2015 9:47:30 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 1/9/2015 9:12:56 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I won"t bother with the scriptural view for once, lol, I'll just direct you to "the horse"s mouth" so to speak.

http://www.mdnews.com...


Needless to say that I, and all JWs are glad that the Medical profession have started to listen to the Hospital Liaison Committee after all it's hard work educating them in the truths of their own professions that they are not taught.

More power to the efforts of the Brothers in that Committee and the thousands of surgeons worldwide who have followed their lead, and that of Dr Denton Cooley, a non-JW heart surgeon and pioneer of heart transplants in the USA who has been championing bloodless surgery for decades because of the successes he has had with JW patients he has helped.

I think that this is a great advancement in medicine. I'm a little concerned that JWs refuse blood transplants and die as a result. It seems a little phobic and to the extreme to me. But, hey! It's your thing.

But do they?

The problem is that whilst you can prove that some have died because they were refused any form of transfusion you cannot prove that they would not have died had they been allowed to have the alternatives they requested.

The other problem is that whilst you can also prove that many have been saved by transfusions you cannot prove that those who had blood in them were saved by the blood.

Ye anothe3r problem we have is that it is impossible to prove how many who died having blood transfusion were killed by the blood in the transfusion.

You know what they say, Figures can"t lie, but liars sure can figure. In fact the figures are meaningless without the answer to the three problems above, and that is impossible to find out for a certainty

Why would open heart surgeons like Dr Denton Cooley support bloodless surgery for his heart patients if he didn"t believe it to be better? He uses Ringers Lactate as a substitute, and has done for decades now, simply because he found he got a 7% better recovery rate then when he is forced by patient choice to use blood.

It is also a fact that many JWs have died, not because they didn"t have a blood transfusion, but simply because they were refused the alternatives, of which there are many. Why could the hospitals not let them have the alternatives and then blame them if they died? I will never understand that.

If they had been given the alternatives and then died the hospital would not have been to blame, and JWs have always been happy to sign anything that took responsibility away from the hospitals.


However, at least dying faithful to God and Christ guarantees a resurrection.

Like I said, I'm happy for the advancements for bloodless surgery. And yes, people who will not or cannot receive a blood transfusion will benefit immensely from this. However there are situations where loss of blood is a complication of something other than surgery. Would a JW refuse a life saving transfusion after say, almost bleeding to death resulting from childbirth? And what purpose does it serve to believe something like this if someone close to you like a daughter or grand daughter dies from blood loss related to childbirth?

Not if it didn't have blood in it.

As Christ said, to be saved one has to be faithful to death, If I were to take a blood transfusion I would not be faithful unto death would I?

Anyway if push came to shove I am happy with the idea of a nice long dreameless sleep until the resurrection. Its the perfect back up plan.

I hope that push doesn't come to shove and that you don't die needlessly should you refuse a transfusion. Also, to be faithful to death would mean to except a physical problem and let it run its course. God's will right? With that being said why would a JW even need surgery in the first place?
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."