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Winning Souls For Jesus ?

IRONHIDE
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1/12/2015 10:03:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
WINNING SOULS FOR JESUS?
[Two Billion Strong and Counting"?]

Are there really two billion faith-filled Christians in the world today? Have the Scriptures been proven wrong? Is prophecy way out of wack? Did Jesus" gospel produce more fruit than He had anticipated in this present wicked age? Did Jesus miss-calculate how many believers would be here to greet Him upon His return? Do two billion professing Christians make Jesus a false prophet? Here is the prophecy from Jesus" own mouth:

""SHALL HE FIND FAITH ON THE EARTH?"

Here is a prophecy of Jesus concerning how much faith He expected to find on earth when He comes to establish His Kingdom in the earth:

"And shall not God avenge His own elect, which cry day and night unto Him, though He bear long with them? I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man comes, shall He find FAITH on the earth?</strong> (Luke 18:7-8).

The answer of course is: "Little: He shall not find but very little faith." But don"t take my word for it. Notice what Dr. Strong says regarding this word ara translated "shall" in the King James:

G687 a???a ara ar'-ah "A form of G686, denoting an interrogation to which a negative answer is presumed: - therefore."

This Greek word "PRESUMES a NEGATIVE answer." Jesus asked a rhetorical question the answer to which was obvious, and therefore needed no answer"OF COURSE He will find virtually no faith on the earth when He comes! That is because "many are called but few are chosen." And only among the "Few chosen" do we find the "chosen and faithful" (Rev. 17:14).

Many of these two billion Christians are the result of huge winning souls for Jesus campaigns, rallies, revivals and conferences. They are counted as believers based on repeating some form of the sinner"s prayer. When tens of thousands are encouraged to repeat a sinner"s prayer at one of these evangelistic meetings, they are then pronounced "saved." But are they really? Only God is the final Judge, however, I have already shown you what the Scriptures say.

CAN YOU "WIN" SOULS FOR CHRIST?

All my life I heard of "winning souls for Jesus." It is taught throughout the whole world of Christendom. Christians are taught they must "witness for Jesus" and in so doing will "win" some souls for Jesus. Many Christians feel a definite need to try and reach people for Jesus before they die. The Christian teaching is that if anyone is not reached and persuaded to accept Jesus as his personal Saviour before he dies, then he will at death immediately go into the pagan Greek hell of hades and be tortured in fire for all eternity. Even after learning many of the Truths of God on bible-truths.com, people continue to ask me how they can fulfill their obligation to witness for Christ and become effective teachers of God"s Truths to their family, neighbors, or fellow parishioners.

Shocking as it might sound to most, the Scriptures know nothing of "winning souls for Jesus." It is a man-made doctrine of the carnal mind.

But isn"t there a Scripture somewhere that speaks of "winning souls?" No, not really.

Once only do we find any words regarding "winning souls" in the King James Bible:

"The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise" (Prov. 11:30).

This verse, however, has absolutely nothing to do with saving the souls of those who believe in Jesus as their Saviour. The Hebrew word kal from which the word winneth was translated, is used hundreds of times in the King James, but only once is it translated into any form of the word "win." It means to, take, bring, fetch, acquire, rescue, etc., but "win" is a poor choice of words. Besides, spiritual salvation through Jesus Christ is not the topic of Proverbs 11:30. Two New Testament Scriptures:

In Phil. 3:8 we read, ""that I may win [Gk: "gain"] Christ"" and in I Pet. 3:1, ""they also may" be won [Gk: "gained"] by the conversation [conduct] of the wives"" The other dozen times this Greek word kerdaino is used, it is always "gain" or "gained." Example: ""Lord you delivered unto me two talents: behold, I have gained [Gk: kerdaino] two other talents beside them" (Matt. 25:22).

Why didn"t the King James translate this: ""behold I have WON two other talents"?" Surely even these translators could see the implications of increasing our God-given talents by gambling with them for higher "WINNINGS."

Christians need to get all this gambling terminology out of their heads when it comes to the doctrines of God. Salvation has nothing to do with winning some; loosing some; betting on statistical odds; taking chances, and all such Las Vegas crap table nonsense.

Salvation is not a matter of a first chance or a second chance or any chance. Salvation is "sure."

"SURELY, He Who spares not His own Son, but gives Him up for us all, how shall He NOT, together with Him, also, be graciously granting us ALL? (Rom. 8:32, Concordant Literal New Testament).
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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1/12/2015 10:12:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
2 billion Christians? hmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!

People are entitled to worship anything they choose as long as they don't try to force their beliefs down the throats of others.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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1/12/2015 10:16:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/12/2015 10:03:43 AM, IRONHIDE wrote:
WINNING SOULS FOR JESUS?
[Two Billion Strong and Counting"?]

Are there really two billion faith-filled Christians in the world today? Have the Scriptures been proven wrong? Is prophecy way out of wack? Did Jesus" gospel produce more fruit than He had anticipated in this present wicked age? Did Jesus miss-calculate how many believers would be here to greet Him upon His return? Do two billion professing Christians make Jesus a false prophet? Here is the prophecy from Jesus" own mouth:

""SHALL HE FIND FAITH ON THE EARTH?"

Here is a prophecy of Jesus concerning how much faith He expected to find on earth when He comes to establish His Kingdom in the earth:


"And shall not God avenge His own elect, which cry day and night unto Him, though He bear long with them? I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man comes, shall He find FAITH on the earth?</strong> (Luke 18:7-8).

The answer of course is: "Little: He shall not find but very little faith." But don"t take my word for it. Notice what Dr. Strong says regarding this word ara translated "shall" in the King James:


G687 a???a ara ar'-ah "A form of G686, denoting an interrogation to which a negative answer is presumed: - therefore."

This Greek word "PRESUMES a NEGATIVE answer." Jesus asked a rhetorical question the answer to which was obvious, and therefore needed no answer"OF COURSE He will find virtually no faith on the earth when He comes! That is because "many are called but few are chosen." And only among the "Few chosen" do we find the "chosen and faithful" (Rev. 17:14).

Many of these two billion Christians are the result of huge winning souls for Jesus campaigns, rallies, revivals and conferences. They are counted as believers based on repeating some form of the sinner"s prayer. When tens of thousands are encouraged to repeat a sinner"s prayer at one of these evangelistic meetings, they are then pronounced "saved." But are they really? Only God is the final Judge, however, I have already shown you what the Scriptures say.

CAN YOU "WIN" SOULS FOR CHRIST?

All my life I heard of "winning souls for Jesus." It is taught throughout the whole world of Christendom. Christians are taught they must "witness for Jesus" and in so doing will "win" some souls for Jesus. Many Christians feel a definite need to try and reach people for Jesus before they die. The Christian teaching is that if anyone is not reached and persuaded to accept Jesus as his personal Saviour before he dies, then he will at death immediately go into the pagan Greek hell of hades and be tortured in fire for all eternity. Even after learning many of the Truths of God on bible-truths.com, people continue to ask me how they can fulfill their obligation to witness for Christ and become effective teachers of God"s Truths to their family, neighbors, or fellow parishioners.

Shocking as it might sound to most, the Scriptures know nothing of "winning souls for Jesus." It is a man-made doctrine of the carnal mind.

But isn"t there a Scripture somewhere that speaks of "winning souls?" No, not really.

Once only do we find any words regarding "winning souls" in the King James Bible:


"The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise" (Prov. 11:30).

This verse, however, has absolutely nothing to do with saving the souls of those who believe in Jesus as their Saviour. The Hebrew word kal from which the word winneth was translated, is used hundreds of times in the King James, but only once is it translated into any form of the word "win." It means to, take, bring, fetch, acquire, rescue, etc., but "win" is a poor choice of words. Besides, spiritual salvation through Jesus Christ is not the topic of Proverbs 11:30. Two New Testament Scriptures:

In Phil. 3:8 we read, ""that I may win [Gk: "gain"] Christ"" and in I Pet. 3:1, ""they also may" be won [Gk: "gained"] by the conversation [conduct] of the wives"" The other dozen times this Greek word kerdaino is used, it is always "gain" or "gained." Example: ""Lord you delivered unto me two talents: behold, I have gained [Gk: kerdaino] two other talents beside them" (Matt. 25:22).

Why didn"t the King James translate this: ""behold I have WON two other talents"?" Surely even these translators could see the implications of increasing our God-given talents by gambling with them for higher "WINNINGS."

Christians need to get all this gambling terminology out of their heads when it comes to the doctrines of God. Salvation has nothing to do with winning some; loosing some; betting on statistical odds; taking chances, and all such Las Vegas crap table nonsense.

Salvation is not a matter of a first chance or a second chance or any chance. Salvation is "sure."


"SURELY, He Who spares not His own Son, but gives Him up for us all, how shall He NOT, together with Him, also, be graciously granting us ALL? (Rom. 8:32, Concordant Literal New Testament).

1 Corinthians 3:6
I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth.

I'm pretty sure St Paul wants us to work to bring people to God. I think this is what you're saying anyway.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
IRONHIDE
Posts: 326
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1/12/2015 10:27:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/12/2015 10:16:16 AM, jharry wrote:
At 1/12/2015 10:03:43 AM, IRONHIDE wrote:


1 Corinthians 3:6
I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth.

I'm pretty sure St Paul wants us to work to bring people to God. I think this is what you're saying anyway.

Yes, In addition to this:

GOD PREDETERMINES WHO GETS SAVED AND WHEN

"Now we are aware that God [Who? GOD. Men"ourselves? NO"GOD] is working all together for the good of those who are loving God who are called according to the purpose that, whom He foreknew, He designates beforehand, also, to be conformed to the image of His Son for Him to be Firstborn among many brethren. Now whom He designates beforehand, these He calls also, and whom He calls, these He justifies also; now whom He justifies, these He glorifies also" (Rom. 8:28-30, Concordant Literal New Testament).

It is ALL OF GOD. It is not wrong to tell others of your knowledge of God and His Word. It is not, however, your responsibility to "get people saved." Only God can do that.

It is GOD who does the calling:

"For ye see your calling brethren how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. But God has chosen [Who? "GOD"] the weak things of this world to confound the things which are mighty"" (I Cor. 1:26-27).

It is GOD who does the dragging:

"No man can come to me, except the Father which has sent Me, draw him [Gk: "drag him"]"" (John 6:44).

It is CHRIST Who chooses from those His Father dragged:

"Ye have not chosen Me, but I HAVE CHOSEN YOU"" (John 15:16).

Eventually this will include all mankind:

"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me" (John 12:32).

And all will respond to God"s judgments and chastisements:

"That at the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, of those in heaven, and those in earth, and those under the earth; And that EVERY tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father" (Phil. 2:10-11"See also Isa. 26:9b).

And let"s not forget:

""no man CAN say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit" (I Cor. 12:3b).

Which is totally contrary to the horrible teachings of such men as John Hagee and Herbert W. Armstrong on this subject. Herbert Armstrong said: "Yes, every knee will bow, and if they don"t GOD WILL BREAK THEIR KNEES." Oh the unscriptural foolishness of carnal"minded men.

But do orthodox Christians believe that these Scriptures mean what they say? Of course not, and that is why they quote Phil. 2:12 ""work out your own salvation with fear and trembling," thinking that this takes Sovereignty away from God and places it back with man and his fabled "free will." Not so. Not so. They forget to read the next verse which tells us why we are to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling:

"For ["for" means "because"] it is GOD [Who? Man? NO! "GOD"] which works in you both TO WILL AND TO DO of His good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13).
jharry
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1/12/2015 11:16:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Oh ok, predestination. Gotcha.

Would you say John the Baptist was among the elect? Was he chosen by God to believe?
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
seeu46
Posts: 578
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1/12/2015 11:49:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think the idea for "winning souls", I imagine for Jesus comes from this passage but it is also different then that idea.

Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Make "supposedly winning souls" because as you said. It is then on God for God alone gets the true credit. For Jesus said worship in spirit and in truth.

We can tell them the truth. But it is the Spirit of God that gives everyone "power" and "transformation" to really believe? Do you agree with this.
IRONHIDE
Posts: 326
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1/12/2015 12:27:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/12/2015 11:16:58 AM, jharry wrote:
Oh ok, predestination. Gotcha.

Would you say John the Baptist was among the elect? Was he chosen by God to believe?

The "Elect" Is rarely understood by Christians.

JW's actually have a more clear understanding than most. Concerning the "Elect" Though the JW's have some flaws in there doctrine, that absolutely contradict scripture. Some of what they teach, even contradicts their own version of the NWT Bible, in which I will engage a JW and clearly expose the contradiction they create in some aspects of what they teach within their own bible. Another topic though.

The 12 disciples were chosen by Jesus, 1 betrayed Christ. Judas was chosen also by God to be the one to betray the Son of God. For a purpose in fulfilling his master plan he began before he even created the earth, let alone man. Again, that is another topic, in which I have a thread discussing this issue here.

http://www.debate.org...

Moving forward.

John the Baptist was indeed chosen by God, to not only believe, but also to exercise his belief given to him by none other than God, in being, the forerunner for Christ. Even, though, John the Baptist was not a chosen disciple to later become an apostle.

This was not Johns own choosing, to be the forerunner out of his own "free will" But it was Gods choosing.

I understand man does not like the idea of a complete and total sovereign God and wishes to posses a certain element of sovereignty him self, out side of Gods sovereign control, in order to feel like he/man is in control of their own destiny, to save themselves by choosing God. Again "free will" another topic.

the 11 disciples + Paul and others post Christ will be a part of the "elect" that reign as kings and priest with Christ over mankind.

Sorry, No rapture.... there will not be millions of soccer moms and airline pilots and baseball coaches and doctors disappearing during surgery, in a rapture event to reign as kings and priest with Christ in heaven.
IRONHIDE
Posts: 326
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1/12/2015 1:27:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/12/2015 11:49:07 AM, seeu46 wrote:
I think the idea for "winning souls", I imagine for Jesus comes from this passage but it is also different then that idea.

Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Make "supposedly winning souls" because as you said. It is then on God for God alone gets the true credit. For Jesus said worship in spirit and in truth.

We can tell them the truth. But it is the Spirit of God that gives everyone "power" and "transformation" to really believe? Do you agree with this.

Yes. Indeed. The reality is, every man, woman and child born, is born with an inherently evil and selfish heart. Having absolutely no desire what so ever to serve God. Only the desire to serve ones, self centered selfish desires.

This reality is even evident in babies as they begin to interact with other children as they grow, learning to talk and play with others. You see them want to take toys from another saying "Mine" "give me" etc... demonstrating natural selfish behavior. We all were born like this. Most, continue this behavior right into adulthood and die that way.

We all also are born spiritually blind to Gods plan for us. Like in the case of Saul for example, He was completely spiritually blind. No one could witness to him and convince him of the truth of Christ. Those that did were slaughtered by him and his army. It took God by means of his son Jesus to physically stop Saul in his tracks, rendering him totally physically blind and heal him of his spiritual blindness. Once God himself healed Saul of his spiritual blindness, God the commanded Ananias to go to now Paul and lay hands on him to recover his physical vision to be about the purpose God chose him for.

Again, ALL God in EVERTHING. Not mans "free will" Man has NO sovereignty. God is ALL Sovereign and most men cringe at that thought.
jharry
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1/12/2015 1:50:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/12/2015 12:27:56 PM, IRONHIDE wrote:
At 1/12/2015 11:16:58 AM, jharry wrote:
Oh ok, predestination. Gotcha.

Would you say John the Baptist was among the elect? Was he chosen by God to believe?

The "Elect" Is rarely understood by Christians.

JW's actually have a more clear understanding than most. Concerning the "Elect" Though the JW's have some flaws in there doctrine, that absolutely contradict scripture. Some of what they teach, even contradicts their own version of the NWT Bible, in which I will engage a JW and clearly expose the contradiction they create in some aspects of what they teach within their own bible. Another topic though.

The 12 disciples were chosen by Jesus, 1 betrayed Christ. Judas was chosen also by God to be the one to betray the Son of God. For a purpose in fulfilling his master plan he began before he even created the earth, let alone man. Again, that is another topic, in which I have a thread discussing this issue here.

http://www.debate.org...

Moving forward.

John the Baptist was indeed chosen by God, to not only believe, but also to exercise his belief given to him by none other than God, in being, the forerunner for Christ. Even, though, John the Baptist was not a chosen disciple to later become an apostle.

This was not Johns own choosing, to be the forerunner out of his own "free will" But it was Gods choosing.

I understand man does not like the idea of a complete and total sovereign God and wishes to posses a certain element of sovereignty him self, out side of Gods sovereign control, in order to feel like he/man is in control of their own destiny, to save themselves by choosing God. Again "free will" another topic.

the 11 disciples + Paul and others post Christ will be a part of the "elect" that reign as kings and priest with Christ over mankind.

Sorry, No rapture.... there will not be millions of soccer moms and airline pilots and baseball coaches and doctors disappearing during surgery, in a rapture event to reign as kings and priest with Christ in heaven.

Is a true believer the same as John? Both are willed by God to believe and to act accordingly?
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Gentorev
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1/12/2015 4:16:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/12/2015 10:12:27 AM, JJ50 wrote:
2 billion Christians? hmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!

People are entitled to worship anything they choose as long as they don't try to force their beliefs down the throats of others.

The believers come to these religious forums in order to converse with others of like mind, only to find it has been infested with the godless termites, who attempt to "White Ant" all their posts and shove their godless beliefs down the throats of those believers.
DanneJeRusse
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1/12/2015 5:36:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/12/2015 1:27:48 PM, IRONHIDE wrote:

Yes. Indeed. The reality is, every man, woman and child born, is born with an inherently evil and selfish heart. Having absolutely no desire what so ever to serve God. Only the desire to serve ones, self centered selfish desires.

This reality is even evident in babies as they begin to interact with other children as they grow, learning to talk and play with others. You see them want to take toys from another saying "Mine" "give me" etc... demonstrating natural selfish behavior. We all were born like this. Most, continue this behavior right into adulthood and die that way.

Sure, when you raise your children telling them they were born with an "inherently evil and selfish heart", you should expect they'll behave that way their whole lives. That's what you're teaching them and that's what they're learning.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
IRONHIDE
Posts: 326
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1/12/2015 5:40:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/12/2015 5:36:12 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 1/12/2015 1:27:48 PM, IRONHIDE wrote:

Yes. Indeed. The reality is, every man, woman and child born, is born with an inherently evil and selfish heart. Having absolutely no desire what so ever to serve God. Only the desire to serve ones, self centered selfish desires.

This reality is even evident in babies as they begin to interact with other children as they grow, learning to talk and play with others. You see them want to take toys from another saying "Mine" "give me" etc... demonstrating natural selfish behavior. We all were born like this. Most, continue this behavior right into adulthood and die that way.

Sure, when you raise your children telling them they were born with an "inherently evil and selfish heart", you should expect they'll behave that way their whole lives. That's what you're teaching them and that's what they're learning.

With all due respect..It appears you may lack critical thinking skills. If you do not lack them, then I would suggest, you fail to exercise them before making comment.
DanneJeRusse
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1/12/2015 5:46:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/12/2015 5:40:30 PM, IRONHIDE wrote:
At 1/12/2015 5:36:12 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 1/12/2015 1:27:48 PM, IRONHIDE wrote:

Yes. Indeed. The reality is, every man, woman and child born, is born with an inherently evil and selfish heart. Having absolutely no desire what so ever to serve God. Only the desire to serve ones, self centered selfish desires.

This reality is even evident in babies as they begin to interact with other children as they grow, learning to talk and play with others. You see them want to take toys from another saying "Mine" "give me" etc... demonstrating natural selfish behavior. We all were born like this. Most, continue this behavior right into adulthood and die that way.

Sure, when you raise your children telling them they were born with an "inherently evil and selfish heart", you should expect they'll behave that way their whole lives. That's what you're teaching them and that's what they're learning.

With all due respect..It appears you may lack critical thinking skills. If you do not lack them, then I would suggest, you fail to exercise them before making comment.

No comment, then? Can't even muster a response to my post other than that, respectively? Perhaps, you agree?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
IRONHIDE
Posts: 326
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1/12/2015 6:16:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/12/2015 5:46:22 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 1/12/2015 5:40:30 PM, IRONHIDE wrote:
At 1/12/2015 5:36:12 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 1/12/2015 1:27:48 PM, IRONHIDE wrote:

Yes. Indeed. The reality is, every man, woman and child born, is born with an inherently evil and selfish heart. Having absolutely no desire what so ever to serve God. Only the desire to serve ones, self centered selfish desires.

This reality is even evident in babies as they begin to interact with other children as they grow, learning to talk and play with others. You see them want to take toys from another saying "Mine" "give me" etc... demonstrating natural selfish behavior. We all were born like this. Most, continue this behavior right into adulthood and die that way.

Sure, when you raise your children telling them they were born with an "inherently evil and selfish heart", you should expect they'll behave that way their whole lives. That's what you're teaching them and that's what they're learning.

With all due respect..It appears you may lack critical thinking skills. If you do not lack them, then I would suggest, you fail to exercise them before making comment.

No comment, then? Can't even muster a response to my post other than that, respectively? Perhaps, you agree?

I have already engaged you in discussion on another topic, in a thread I have going here. http://www.debate.org... and you demonstrated the lack of ability to employ simple reading and comprehension skills, weather you posses such skills and elect not to employ them, I can not say.

However, I will again, address you on this uneducated statement you made here concerning this topic and will break it down, slowly articulating it for you. in order to possibly allow you to process such challenging thought.

I stated this " This reality is even evident in babies as they begin to interact with other children as they grow, learning to talk and play with others. You see them want to take toys from another saying "Mine" "give me" etc... demonstrating natural selfish behavior. We all were born like this. Most, continue this behavior right into adulthood and die that way"

Now, a critical thinker, would think and say to him self something along these lines....

"Hmmmm Indeed children are born showing natural selfish behavior. The gentleman, who brought this point to surface, also is sharing positive insight on how one becomes not to be this way. So, he realizes that children are indeed born selfish and a need for them not to be, So he is someone teaching his children principles in life with spiritual morality.

That mans children has the potential to grow to be a more respectable and unselfish individual as they grow older, More so than some one who teaches their kids they are nothing more that a monkey that fell out of a tree and morphed into a man and there is no higher source to life than you and then you die."

Instead of someone who thinks like a monkey and says this

" Sure, when you raise your children telling them they were born with an "inherently evil and selfish heart", you should expect they'll behave that way their whole lives. That's what you're teaching them and that's what they're learning"
DanneJeRusse
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1/12/2015 6:52:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/12/2015 6:16:34 PM, IRONHIDE wrote:
I have already engaged you in discussion on another topic, in a thread I have going here. http://www.debate.org... and you demonstrated the lack of ability to employ simple reading and comprehension skills, weather you posses such skills and elect not to employ them, I can not say.

Weather? LOL.

That was the thread in which I had to crack open a dictionary for you so you could see two words were synonyms. You denied the definition and tried to create one on your own, through "context".

However, I will again, address you on this uneducated statement you made here concerning this topic and will break it down, slowly articulating it for you. in order to possibly allow you to process such challenging thought.

I stated this " This reality is even evident in babies as they begin to interact with other children as they grow, learning to talk and play with others. You see them want to take toys from another saying "Mine" "give me" etc... demonstrating natural selfish behavior. We all were born like this. Most, continue this behavior right into adulthood and die that way"

Now, a critical thinker, would think and say to him self something along these lines....

"Hmmmm Indeed children are born showing natural selfish behavior. The gentleman, who brought this point to surface, also is sharing positive insight on how one becomes not to be this way. So, he realizes that children are indeed born selfish and a need for them not to be, So he is someone teaching his children principles in life with spiritual morality.

That is pure baloney, oh vastly superior intellectual critical thinker, you. Scientific studies show something altogether different:

"The Yale Infant Cognition Center is particularly interested in one of the most exalted social functions: ethical judgments, and whether babies are hard-wired to make them. The lab"s initial study along these lines, published in 2007 in the journal Nature, startled the scientific world by showing that in a series of simple morality plays, 6- and 10-month-olds overwhelmingly preferred "good guys" to "bad guys." "This capacity may serve as the foundation for moral thought and action," the authors wrote. It "may form an essential basis for...more abstract concepts of right and wrong."

The last few years produced a spate of related studies hinting that, far from being born a "perfect idiot," as Jean-Jacques Rousseau argued, or a selfish brute, as Thomas Hobbes feared, a child arrives in the world provisioned with rich, broadly pro-social tendencies and seems predisposed to care about other people. Children can tell, to an extent, what is good and bad, and often act in an altruistic fashion."


That mans children has the potential to grow to be a more respectable and unselfish individual as they grow older, More so than some one who teaches their kids they are nothing more that a monkey that fell out of a tree and morphed into a man and there is no higher source to life than you and then you die."

Yes, children who are exposed to facts and evidence of the world around tend to understand they are not a "monkey that fell out of a tree and morphed into a man", only a very misinformed person of low education would say such things.

Instead of someone who thinks like a monkey and says this

" Sure, when you raise your children telling them they were born with an "inherently evil and selfish heart", you should expect they'll behave that way their whole lives. That's what you're teaching them and that's what they're learning"

Sure, invoke the misinformed assertion instead of actually debating the point made.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
IRONHIDE
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1/12/2015 7:17:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/12/2015 6:52:12 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 1/12/2015 6:16:34 PM, IRONHIDE wrote:
I have already engaged you in discussion on another topic, in a thread I have going here. http://www.debate.org... and you demonstrated the lack of ability to employ simple reading and comprehension skills, weather you posses such skills and elect not to employ them, I can not say.

Weather? LOL.

Auto spell error.

That was the thread in which I had to crack open a dictionary for you so you could see two words were synonyms. You denied the definition and tried to create one on your own, through "context".

Your still demonstrating your lack of ability to think critically and apply sound education when using words in context with definition.

I already plainly showed you, the two words while allowing for dual meaning also allows for different meaning depending again on context of the statement both words are being utilized in.

You lack the comprehension to properly utilize the dictionary you cracked open.

However, I will again, address you on this uneducated statement you made here concerning this topic and will break it down, slowly articulating it for you. in order to possibly allow you to process such challenging thought.

I stated this " This reality is even evident in babies as they begin to interact with other children as they grow, learning to talk and play with others. You see them want to take toys from another saying "Mine" "give me" etc... demonstrating natural selfish behavior. We all were born like this. Most, continue this behavior right into adulthood and die that way"

Now, a critical thinker, would think and say to him self something along these lines....

"Hmmmm Indeed children are born showing natural selfish behavior. The gentleman, who brought this point to surface, also is sharing positive insight on how one becomes not to be this way. So, he realizes that children are indeed born selfish and a need for them not to be, So he is someone teaching his children principles in life with spiritual morality.

That is pure baloney, oh vastly superior intellectual critical thinker, you. Scientific studies show something altogether different:

Yale's study is an inconclusive study at best. Notice the language "initial" "may"

in other words 'Gees we really don't know'

"The Yale Infant Cognition Center is particularly interested in one of the most exalted social functions: ethical judgments, and whether babies are hard-wired to make them. The lab"s initial study along these lines, published in 2007 in the journal Nature, startled the scientific world by showing that in a series of simple morality plays, 6- and 10-month-olds overwhelmingly preferred "good guys" to "bad guys." "This capacity may serve as the foundation for moral thought and action," the authors wrote. It "may form an essential basis for...more abstract concepts of right and wrong."

The last few years produced a spate of related studies hinting that, far from being born a "perfect idiot," as Jean-Jacques Rousseau argued, or a selfish brute, as Thomas Hobbes feared, a child arrives in the world provisioned with rich, broadly pro-social tendencies and seems predisposed to care about other people. Children can tell, to an extent, what is good and bad, and often act in an altruistic fashion."


Children are not born perfect idiots, I agree. However, Children are born selfish and have to be taught differently. That's just the reality of life. I have 4 myself. I have never met one child let alone a human that does not demonstrate selfishness. I assure you haven't met one either. If you say you have, you are either delusional or a liar.

That mans children has the potential to grow to be a more respectable and unselfish individual as they grow older, More so than some one who teaches their kids they are nothing more that a monkey that fell out of a tree and morphed into a man and there is no higher source to life than you and then you die."

Yes, children who are exposed to facts and evidence of the world around tend to understand they are not a "monkey that fell out of a tree and morphed into a man", only a very misinformed person of low education would say such things.

Instead of someone who thinks like a monkey and says this

" Sure, when you raise your children telling them they were born with an "inherently evil and selfish heart", you should expect they'll behave that way their whole lives. That's what you're teaching them and that's what they're learning"

Sure, invoke the misinformed assertion instead of actually debating the point made.

Yes, your statement is that of a misinformed and uneducated one at best.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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1/12/2015 7:28:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Are there actually 144.000 or more people in the world who believe Michael the Archangel took over Jesus' body and killed him, then returned to heaven as Michael the Archangel?

Are there actually 144.000 or more people who believe they are the true Israelites and the only ones good enough to exist outside of the fire of Hell?

Are there actually 144,000 plus poople who actually believe they are the tool of God?

Yes. You can be one of them. Go to JW.org to learn how. They will be happy to come to your house and teach you all about it.
IRONHIDE
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1/12/2015 7:38:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/12/2015 7:28:33 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
Are there actually 144.000 or more people in the world who believe Michael the Archangel took over Jesus' body and killed him, then returned to heaven as Michael the Archangel?

Are there actually 144.000 or more people who believe they are the true Israelites and the only ones good enough to exist outside of the fire of Hell?

Are there actually 144,000 plus poople who actually believe they are the tool of God?

Yes. You can be one of them. Go to JW.org to learn how. They will be happy to come to your house and teach you all about it.

Lol! quite the jokester, you are. Was this response a result of my post # 7 ?

If you noticed, I exposed the JWs have flaws within there doctrine and they even contradict there own NWT version of the bible with some of their doctrine they teach.

That does not change the scriptural account of the 144,000 and the reality there is no rapture of you and a millions of other people going to disappear in some rapture event that is not even in scripture, that you dream of.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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1/12/2015 7:42:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Are there actually 144.000 or more people in the world who believe Michael the Archangel took over Jesus' body and killed him, then returned to heaven as Michael the Archangel?

Are there actually 144.000 or more people who believe they are the true Israelites and the only ones good enough to exist outside of the fire of Hell?

Are there actually 144,000 plus poople who actually believe they are the tool of God?

Yes. You can be one of them. Go to JW.org to learn how. They will be happy to come to your house and teach you all about it.
IRONHIDE
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1/12/2015 7:50:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/12/2015 7:42:05 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
Are there actually 144.000 or more people in the world who believe Michael the Archangel took over Jesus' body and killed him, then returned to heaven as Michael the Archangel?

Are there actually 144.000 or more people who believe they are the true Israelites and the only ones good enough to exist outside of the fire of Hell?

Are there actually 144,000 plus poople who actually believe they are the tool of God?

Yes. You can be one of them. Go to JW.org to learn how. They will be happy to come to your house and teach you all about it.

I noticed you engaged in 109 debates. I have no idea what the debates were or your ability to engage in an intellectual or scriptural debate for that matter.

However, I would welcome you to engage in a debate forum on the topic of "Rapture Doctrine" on a scriptural basis, with me being opposed to the "rapture doctrine" should you feel confident the bible supports and teaches such.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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1/12/2015 7:50:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/12/2015 5:46:22 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 1/12/2015 5:40:30 PM, IRONHIDE wrote:
At 1/12/2015 5:36:12 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 1/12/2015 1:27:48 PM, IRONHIDE wrote:

Yes. Indeed. The reality is, every man, woman and child born, is born with an inherently evil and selfish heart. Having absolutely no desire what so ever to serve God. Only the desire to serve ones, self centered selfish desires.

This reality is even evident in babies as they begin to interact with other children as they grow, learning to talk and play with others. You see them want to take toys from another saying "Mine" "give me" etc... demonstrating natural selfish behavior. We all were born like this. Most, continue this behavior right into adulthood and die that way.

Sure, when you raise your children telling them they were born with an "inherently evil and selfish heart", you should expect they'll behave that way their whole lives. That's what you're teaching them and that's what they're learning.

With all due respect..It appears you may lack critical thinking skills. If you do not lack them, then I would suggest, you fail to exercise them before making comment.

No comment, then? Can't even muster a response to my post other than that, respectively? Perhaps, you agree?

You, an atheist, are arguing with a Jehovah's Witness. You both agree that you have the right to exist outside of the fire of Hell, and neither one of you can give any logical justification for yourselves to live outside of the fire of Hell. The JW cannot answer rational questions any more than you can. You are wasting your time trying to get a JW to answer logically.
IRONHIDE
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1/12/2015 7:54:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/12/2015 7:50:08 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 1/12/2015 5:46:22 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 1/12/2015 5:40:30 PM, IRONHIDE wrote:
At 1/12/2015 5:36:12 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 1/12/2015 1:27:48 PM, IRONHIDE wrote:

Yes. Indeed. The reality is, every man, woman and child born, is born with an inherently evil and selfish heart. Having absolutely no desire what so ever to serve God. Only the desire to serve ones, self centered selfish desires.

This reality is even evident in babies as they begin to interact with other children as they grow, learning to talk and play with others. You see them want to take toys from another saying "Mine" "give me" etc... demonstrating natural selfish behavior. We all were born like this. Most, continue this behavior right into adulthood and die that way.

Sure, when you raise your children telling them they were born with an "inherently evil and selfish heart", you should expect they'll behave that way their whole lives. That's what you're teaching them and that's what they're learning.

With all due respect..It appears you may lack critical thinking skills. If you do not lack them, then I would suggest, you fail to exercise them before making comment.

No comment, then? Can't even muster a response to my post other than that, respectively? Perhaps, you agree?

You, an atheist, are arguing with a Jehovah's Witness. You both agree that you have the right to exist outside of the fire of Hell, and neither one of you can give any logical justification for yourselves to live outside of the fire of Hell. The JW cannot answer rational questions any more than you can. You are wasting your time trying to get a JW to answer logically.

What is you obsessions with JWs and why do you lack the ability to comprehend that I am OPPOSED to JW theology ?
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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1/12/2015 8:08:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
THINK FOR A MOMENT!

If you were on the wrong road, would pride or stubbornness prevent you from admitting it?

If you are an active Jehovah"s Witness you have asked that question of others many times, I know I did but have you ever asked it of yourself?

Have you ever wondered why Jehovah's Witnesses are instructed to ask this question of others but told they must never ask it of themselves?

Why is it vital for everyone else to question their religion but forbidden for you as a Jehovah's Witness to question yours?

Do the many failed prophecies of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society make you wonder if they are really God's organization?

Do you find yourself questioning the ever changing teachings of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society?

The truth never changes so does that mean the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society did not have the truth before the latest teaching changes or does it mean they had the truth before the changes and have lost the truth, and if they make a change in the future doesn't that mean they do not have the truth now?

Does it concern you that if you do not change your beliefs every time the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society changes what they are teaching you will be considered an apostate and disfellowshipped?

No one has ever become a Jehovah's Witness by just reading the Bible . To become a Jehovah's Witness, you have to be indoctinated by Watchtower publication pushers and then go to work pushing Watchtower publications. Then you are a slave, a mind-numbed robot who thinks they can earn paradise when they can't even get themselves out for the death penalty they are stuck in like every other sinner. They will be more than happy to make you into one of the lifeless faces displayed in their publications.

Go to JW.org to see how wonderful it is to be one of them after you believe Michael the Archangel possessed the body of Jesus Christ so he could make him get killed by crucifixion, and then left his body to rot as he returned to being none other than Michael the Archangel. Surely you will believe this and give your life to promote Watchtower when you see how much the Jehovah's Witnesses love you. As long as you never question their teachings no matter how many times their prophecies fail and no matter how many times they change their rules or doctrines, just go along with them and they will love you and not kick you out.

Also, if you are a drunk, be sure not to show up with it on your breath or they will say you are not showing enough evidence of repentance and they will give you the boot and say you are not good enough to go with them to paradise. If you are an atheist, that's ok, just don't tell anybody and you can enjoy their love as you all hold hands and sing joyfully "we have the right to exist outside of the fire of Hell because we are good and not too bad"
DanneJeRusse
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1/13/2015 8:06:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/12/2015 7:17:11 PM, IRONHIDE wrote:
At 1/12/2015 6:52:12 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 1/12/2015 6:16:34 PM, IRONHIDE wrote:
I have already engaged you in discussion on another topic, in a thread I have going here. http://www.debate.org... and you demonstrated the lack of ability to employ simple reading and comprehension skills, weather you posses such skills and elect not to employ them, I can not say.

Weather? LOL.

Auto spell error.

That was the thread in which I had to crack open a dictionary for you so you could see two words were synonyms. You denied the definition and tried to create one on your own, through "context".

Your still demonstrating your lack of ability to think critically and apply sound education when using words in context with definition.

It would appear you're the one who simply ignores definitions to words.

I already plainly showed you, the two words while allowing for dual meaning also allows for different meaning depending again on context of the statement both words are being utilized in.

Ah yes, the 'context' thing again. In other words, that allows you to make up anything you want.

You lack the comprehension to properly utilize the dictionary you cracked open.

LOL. Mr. Pot, please meet Mr. Kettle.

However, I will again, address you on this uneducated statement you made here concerning this topic and will break it down, slowly articulating it for you. in order to possibly allow you to process such challenging thought.

I stated this " This reality is even evident in babies as they begin to interact with other children as they grow, learning to talk and play with others. You see them want to take toys from another saying "Mine" "give me" etc... demonstrating natural selfish behavior. We all were born like this. Most, continue this behavior right into adulthood and die that way"

Now, a critical thinker, would think and say to him self something along these lines....

"Hmmmm Indeed children are born showing natural selfish behavior. The gentleman, who brought this point to surface, also is sharing positive insight on how one becomes not to be this way. So, he realizes that children are indeed born selfish and a need for them not to be, So he is someone teaching his children principles in life with spiritual morality.

That is pure baloney, oh vastly superior intellectual critical thinker, you. Scientific studies show something altogether different:

Yale's study is an inconclusive study at best. Notice the language "initial" "may"

in other words 'Gees we really don't know'

Redefining words again, to suit your agenda? LOL.

There have many studies over decades that have produced the same results, sorry that don't understand.

"The Yale Infant Cognition Center is particularly interested in one of the most exalted social functions: ethical judgments, and whether babies are hard-wired to make them. The lab"s initial study along these lines, published in 2007 in the journal Nature, startled the scientific world by showing that in a series of simple morality plays, 6- and 10-month-olds overwhelmingly preferred "good guys" to "bad guys." "This capacity may serve as the foundation for moral thought and action," the authors wrote. It "may form an essential basis for...more abstract concepts of right and wrong."

The last few years produced a spate of related studies hinting that, far from being born a "perfect idiot," as Jean-Jacques Rousseau argued, or a selfish brute, as Thomas Hobbes feared, a child arrives in the world provisioned with rich, broadly pro-social tendencies and seems predisposed to care about other people. Children can tell, to an extent, what is good and bad, and often act in an altruistic fashion."


Children are not born perfect idiots, I agree. However, Children are born selfish and have to be taught differently. That's just the reality of life.

No, that;s your preconceived notion that doesn't agree with reality and the scientific studies.

I have 4 myself. I have never met one child let alone a human that does not demonstrate selfishness. I assure you haven't met one either. If you say you have, you are either delusional or a liar.

That is probably because you and the folks you associate tell your children they are evil and selfish, so that's how they grow up.

Everyone can demonstrate selfishness just like we can demonstrate a whole lot of other emotions. So what? You are focusing on selfishness because that's what your book of myths and superstitions has taught you.


That mans children has the potential to grow to be a more respectable and unselfish individual as they grow older, More so than some one who teaches their kids they are nothing more that a monkey that fell out of a tree and morphed into a man and there is no higher source to life than you and then you die."

Yes, children who are exposed to facts and evidence of the world around tend to understand they are not a "monkey that fell out of a tree and morphed into a man", only a very misinformed person of low education would say such things.

Instead of someone who thinks like a monkey and says this

" Sure, when you raise your children telling them they were born with an "inherently evil and selfish heart", you should expect they'll behave that way their whole lives. That's what you're teaching them and that's what they're learning"

Sure, invoke the misinformed assertion instead of actually debating the point made.

Yes, your statement is that of a misinformed and uneducated one at best.

LOL.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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1/13/2015 8:07:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/12/2015 7:54:59 PM, IRONHIDE wrote:
At 1/12/2015 7:50:08 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 1/12/2015 5:46:22 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 1/12/2015 5:40:30 PM, IRONHIDE wrote:
At 1/12/2015 5:36:12 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 1/12/2015 1:27:48 PM, IRONHIDE wrote:

Yes. Indeed. The reality is, every man, woman and child born, is born with an inherently evil and selfish heart. Having absolutely no desire what so ever to serve God. Only the desire to serve ones, self centered selfish desires.

This reality is even evident in babies as they begin to interact with other children as they grow, learning to talk and play with others. You see them want to take toys from another saying "Mine" "give me" etc... demonstrating natural selfish behavior. We all were born like this. Most, continue this behavior right into adulthood and die that way.

Sure, when you raise your children telling them they were born with an "inherently evil and selfish heart", you should expect they'll behave that way their whole lives. That's what you're teaching them and that's what they're learning.

With all due respect..It appears you may lack critical thinking skills. If you do not lack them, then I would suggest, you fail to exercise them before making comment.

No comment, then? Can't even muster a response to my post other than that, respectively? Perhaps, you agree?

You, an atheist, are arguing with a Jehovah's Witness. You both agree that you have the right to exist outside of the fire of Hell, and neither one of you can give any logical justification for yourselves to live outside of the fire of Hell. The JW cannot answer rational questions any more than you can. You are wasting your time trying to get a JW to answer logically.

What is you obsessions with JWs and why do you lack the ability to comprehend that I am OPPOSED to JW theology ?

could have fooled me. Honestly, your stuff is so far off from the Bible I didn't bother to read too much of it. Seemed you were promoting Watchtower doctrine......so what is it? are you Mormon or what? Do you have a name for your "theology" since you reject the name "Jehovah's Witness"?
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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1/13/2015 8:18:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/12/2015 12:27:56 PM, IRONHIDE wrote:
At 1/12/2015 11:16:58 AM, jharry wrote:
Oh ok, predestination. Gotcha.

Would you say John the Baptist was among the elect? Was he chosen by God to believe?

The "Elect" Is rarely understood by Christians.

JW's actually have a more clear understanding than most. Concerning the "Elect" Though the JW's have some flaws in there doctrine, that absolutely contradict scripture. Some of what they teach, even contradicts their own version of the NWT Bible, in which I will engage a JW and clearly expose the contradiction they create in some aspects of what they teach within their own bible. Another topic though.

The 12 disciples were chosen by Jesus, 1 betrayed Christ. Judas was chosen also by God to be the one to betray the Son of God. For a purpose in fulfilling his master plan he began before he even created the earth, let alone man. Again, that is another topic, in which I have a thread discussing this issue here.

http://www.debate.org...

Moving forward.

John the Baptist was indeed chosen by God, to not only believe, but also to exercise his belief given to him by none other than God, in being, the forerunner for Christ. Even, though, John the Baptist was not a chosen disciple to later become an apostle.

This was not Johns own choosing, to be the forerunner out of his own "free will" But it was Gods choosing.

I understand man does not like the idea of a complete and total sovereign God and wishes to posses a certain element of sovereignty him self, out side of Gods sovereign control, in order to feel like he/man is in control of their own destiny, to save themselves by choosing God. Again "free will" another topic.

the 11 disciples + Paul and others post Christ will be a part of the "elect" that reign as kings and priest with Christ over mankind.

Sorry, No rapture.... there will not be millions of soccer moms and airline pilots and baseball coaches and doctors disappearing during surgery, in a rapture event to reign as kings and priest with Christ in heaven.

This staiement of yours is one example of why I would gueass you to be a JW.

JW's actually have a more clear understanding than most

One confused person does not have a more clear understanding than another confused person. You say confusing things, so I have to believe you are confused. You talk out of both sides of your mouth about Jehovah's Wtiness doctrine, so I have to assume you support them while you say you do not. This is a common tactic among cults, to act like you disagree with them while you promote theri doctrine or enable others to do so.

You need to clarify things. Too much of your stuff shows confusion for me to folow it closely. If you can't say simple things such as "we all deserve to die and burn in Hell" and "Jesus Christ is God and it the only Saviour" and "there is no other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved", I'll simply go with the first impression you give and the first impression I got from you is that you support JW doctrine.

Your attack on soul winning fit this assumption. Assuming I am wrong and you do not support JW teaching even though you support their teaching on the "elect", the next thing I would go to would be Calvinism. That would explain your ignorance of the topic of soul winning. At first I thought it was just jealousy of a JW agaisnt Christians, but I guess it's jealousy of a Calvinist againt soul-winners, correct?
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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1/13/2015 8:20:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/12/2015 10:03:43 AM, IRONHIDE wrote:
WINNING SOULS FOR JESUS?
[Two Billion Strong and Counting"?]

Are there really two billion faith-filled Christians in the world today? Have the Scriptures been proven wrong? Is prophecy way out of wack? Did Jesus" gospel produce more fruit than He had anticipated in this present wicked age? Did Jesus miss-calculate how many believers would be here to greet Him upon His return? Do two billion professing Christians make Jesus a false prophet? Here is the prophecy from Jesus" own mouth:

""SHALL HE FIND FAITH ON THE EARTH?"

Here is a prophecy of Jesus concerning how much faith He expected to find on earth when He comes to establish His Kingdom in the earth:


"And shall not God avenge His own elect, which cry day and night unto Him, though He bear long with them? I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man comes, shall He find FAITH on the earth?</strong> (Luke 18:7-8).

The answer of course is: "Little: He shall not find but very little faith." But don"t take my word for it. Notice what Dr. Strong says regarding this word ara translated "shall" in the King James:


G687 a???a ara ar'-ah "A form of G686, denoting an interrogation to which a negative answer is presumed: - therefore."

This Greek word "PRESUMES a NEGATIVE answer." Jesus asked a rhetorical question the answer to which was obvious, and therefore needed no answer"OF COURSE He will find virtually no faith on the earth when He comes! That is because "many are called but few are chosen." And only among the "Few chosen" do we find the "chosen and faithful" (Rev. 17:14).

Many of these two billion Christians are the result of huge winning souls for Jesus campaigns, rallies, revivals and conferences. They are counted as believers based on repeating some form of the sinner"s prayer. When tens of thousands are encouraged to repeat a sinner"s prayer at one of these evangelistic meetings, they are then pronounced "saved." But are they really? Only God is the final Judge, however, I have already shown you what the Scriptures say.

CAN YOU "WIN" SOULS FOR CHRIST?

All my life I heard of "winning souls for Jesus." It is taught throughout the whole world of Christendom. Christians are taught they must "witness for Jesus" and in so doing will "win" some souls for Jesus. Many Christians feel a definite need to try and reach people for Jesus before they die. The Christian teaching is that if anyone is not reached and persuaded to accept Jesus as his personal Saviour before he dies, then he will at death immediately go into the pagan Greek hell of hades and be tortured in fire for all eternity. Even after learning many of the Truths of God on bible-truths.com, people continue to ask me how they can fulfill their obligation to witness for Christ and become effective teachers of God"s Truths to their family, neighbors, or fellow parishioners.

Shocking as it might sound to most, the Scriptures know nothing of "winning souls for Jesus." It is a man-made doctrine of the carnal mind.

But isn"t there a Scripture somewhere that speaks of "winning souls?" No, not really.

Once only do we find any words regarding "winning souls" in the King James Bible:


"The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise" (Prov. 11:30).

This verse, however, has absolutely nothing to do with saving the souls of those who believe in Jesus as their Saviour. The Hebrew word kal from which the word winneth was translated, is used hundreds of times in the King James, but only once is it translated into any form of the word "win." It means to, take, bring, fetch, acquire, rescue, etc., but "win" is a poor choice of words. Besides, spiritual salvation through Jesus Christ is not the topic of Proverbs 11:30. Two New Testament Scriptures:

In Phil. 3:8 we read, ""that I may win [Gk: "gain"] Christ"" and in I Pet. 3:1, ""they also may" be won [Gk: "gained"] by the conversation [conduct] of the wives"" The other dozen times this Greek word kerdaino is used, it is always "gain" or "gained." Example: ""Lord you delivered unto me two talents: behold, I have gained [Gk: kerdaino] two other talents beside them" (Matt. 25:22).

Why didn"t the King James translate this: ""behold I have WON two other talents"?" Surely even these translators could see the implications of increasing our God-given talents by gambling with them for higher "WINNINGS."

Christians need to get all this gambling terminology out of their heads when it comes to the doctrines of God. Salvation has nothing to do with winning some; loosing some; betting on statistical odds; taking chances, and all such Las Vegas crap table nonsense.

Salvation is not a matter of a first chance or a second chance or any chance. Salvation is "sure."


"SURELY, He Who spares not His own Son, but gives Him up for us all, how shall He NOT, together with Him, also, be graciously granting us ALL? (Rom. 8:32, Concordant Literal New Testament).

Did you know Calvin murdered thousands of babies?
IRONHIDE
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1/13/2015 4:07:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/13/2015 8:06:24 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 1/12/2015 7:17:11 PM, IRONHIDE wrote:
At 1/12/2015 6:52:12 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 1/12/2015 6:16:34 PM, IRONHIDE wrote:
I have already engaged you in discussion on another topic, in a thread I have going here. http://www.debate.org... and you demonstrated the lack of ability to employ simple reading and comprehension skills, weather you posses such skills and elect not to employ them, I can not say.

Weather? LOL.

Auto spell error.

That was the thread in which I had to crack open a dictionary for you so you could see two words were synonyms. You denied the definition and tried to create one on your own, through "context".

Your still demonstrating your lack of ability to think critically and apply sound education when using words in context with definition.

It would appear you're the one who simply ignores definitions to words.

I already plainly showed you, the two words while allowing for dual meaning also allows for different meaning depending again on context of the statement both words are being utilized in.

Ah yes, the 'context' thing again. In other words, that allows you to make up anything you want.
: :

Yes the 'context' thing again. What you fail to realize, due to lack of education and critical thinking skills, is this educational fact you can not change:

The context of the statement FORCES the definition of the words to be applied as one word being a MASCULINE NOUN and one word as an ADVERB OR FEMININE NOUN which I showed you, from a Hebrew lexicon and the definitions within the two words used, that shows you each one has a proper use. Again, depending on the context of the stament being made.

This is not something I am making up to interpret the way I want to, This is the fact of language and the proper use of it, that forces it to be.

"tselem" = "image" = "masculine noun"

"demuwth" = "likeness" = "adverb or feminine noun"

Here is a link of a Hebrew Lexicon, showing you the usage of the word "Likeness" from Hebrew word "demuwth" http://www.blueletterbible.org...

Here is a link showing you the usage of the word "image" in the Hebrew word "tselem" and its usage:

http://www.blueletterbible.org...

If you do not understand what "context" means and need a clearer picture to understand that it is a vital part off understanding, when exercising reading and comprehension skills, let me know and I will take the time to explain that concept slowly for you as well.

I can not spell it out any clearer than this.

If you do not understand that basic principle, which it appears you do not. I can not, nor can anyone else fix stupid. It is something that may be a result from a lack of components within the brain system and not be fault of yours. Or may be fault of yours, by drug use, if you engage in such activities. I can not say.

You lack the comprehension to properly utilize the dictionary you cracked open.

LOL. Mr. Pot, please meet Mr. Kettle.

However, I will again, address you on this uneducated statement you made here concerning this topic and will break it down, slowly articulating it for you. in order to possibly allow you to process such challenging thought.

I stated this " This reality is even evident in babies as they begin to interact with other children as they grow, learning to talk and play with others. You see them want to take toys from another saying "Mine" "give me" etc... demonstrating natural selfish behavior. We all were born like this. Most, continue this behavior right into adulthood and die that way"

Now, a critical thinker, would think and say to him self something along these lines....

"Hmmmm Indeed children are born showing natural selfish behavior. The gentleman, who brought this point to surface, also is sharing positive insight on how one becomes not to be this way. So, he realizes that children are indeed born selfish and a need for them not to be, So he is someone teaching his children principles in life with spiritual morality.

That is pure baloney, oh vastly superior intellectual critical thinker, you. Scientific studies show something altogether different:

Yale's study is an inconclusive study at best. Notice the language "initial" "may"

in other words 'Gees we really don't know'

Redefining words again, to suit your agenda? LOL.