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The Point of Being Here

Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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6/18/2010 7:37:06 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I don't mean the greater point of existence, but rather what is the point of being on this board?

If I search for religious truth each believer will give me vague, contradictory and entirely sujective proof. (Though my debate with Mirza has been productive, that is a rare gem in a cow pat moment).

If I knock down religions, then what do I achieve? I am not going to change the person's mind and even if I do that does nothing to improve their life. If Datchmoto became an atheist, or rather admitted his atheism he would sink into an intense depression. Other atheists will distance themselves from me as I will just look like another obnoxious Dawkins wannabe.

Why am I here?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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6/18/2010 8:27:40 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
prolly cause you're arrogant and think you're god bein an atheist and all... you NEED people to listen to you blather ooooooooon and ooooooon..... yeah. cause yous an athiest...
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Cerebral_Narcissist
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6/18/2010 8:33:36 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/18/2010 8:27:40 AM, belle wrote:
prolly cause you're arrogant and think you're god bein an atheist and all... you NEED people to listen to you blather ooooooooon and ooooooon..... yeah. cause yous an athiest...

Yea... thats probably it!
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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6/18/2010 8:37:32 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I'm not here just for religion. That just seems to be the most divisive, and thus debatable issue. People also all seem to want to persuade each other of/ defend their religious viewpoint.
TheSkeptic
Posts: 1,362
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6/18/2010 8:37:59 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Then what's the point of philosophy? Hell, what's the point of intellectual discourse?

The main, ideal goal is to facilitate the flow and discussion of issues, and hope to obtain truth. Of course, many people will come in with biases and unlikeable characters, so this can hamper it. Others don't even give a sh!t about truth and just want to troll. My purpose here is mainly to learn, even when debating for issues I strongly believe in.

Yeah, maybe I'll have a debate about God's existence in which my opponent supplies absolutely nothing. Oh well, at best you can hope he got something out of it. If not, tough luck if you happen to be correct. On other hand, you can conclude debate having learned something, even if it doesn't compel you to abandon your position (but perhaps refine it).
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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6/18/2010 9:46:07 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
arguing is engaging
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Yvette
Posts: 859
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6/18/2010 2:03:07 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
After just having come away from watching Waiting for Armageddon, I feel this even more strongly: the more rationally a person looks at their religion, even if they're still religious, the better everyone will be off. They don't have to be atheists. They just have to not be swayed by religion.
In the middle of moving to Washington. 8D

"If God does not exist, then chocolate causing cancer is only true for the society that has evidence for that." --GodSands
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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6/18/2010 2:08:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/18/2010 7:37:06 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
I don't mean the greater point of existence, but rather what is the point of being on this board?

If I search for religious truth each believer will give me vague, contradictory and entirely sujective proof. (Though my debate with Mirza has been productive, that is a rare gem in a cow pat moment).

If I knock down religions, then what do I achieve? I am not going to change the person's mind and even if I do that does nothing to improve their life. If Datchmoto became an atheist, or rather admitted his atheism he would sink into an intense depression. Other atheists will distance themselves from me as I will just look like another obnoxious Dawkins wannabe.

Why am I here?

Wow. Did you forget you're on Debate.org?

Everyone holds to their ideals whether political, social, religious, etc. You're here for the spirit of debate where realize that there have to be opposing, and firmly held beliefs, to have debate.

And a religious person could be saying the exact same things you are wondering what's the point of evangelizing to Atheists.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Yvette
Posts: 859
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6/18/2010 2:52:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/18/2010 2:08:08 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 6/18/2010 7:37:06 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
I don't mean the greater point of existence, but rather what is the point of being on this board?

If I search for religious truth each believer will give me vague, contradictory and entirely sujective proof. (Though my debate with Mirza has been productive, that is a rare gem in a cow pat moment).

If I knock down religions, then what do I achieve? I am not going to change the person's mind and even if I do that does nothing to improve their life. If Datchmoto became an atheist, or rather admitted his atheism he would sink into an intense depression. Other atheists will distance themselves from me as I will just look like another obnoxious Dawkins wannabe.

Why am I here?

Wow. Did you forget you're on Debate.org?

Everyone holds to their ideals whether political, social, religious, etc. You're here for the spirit of debate where realize that there have to be opposing, and firmly held beliefs, to have debate.

And a religious person could be saying the exact same things you are wondering what's the point of evangelizing to Atheists.

Unfortunately they have the whole "I want to save your soul" excuse. I wonder if that's what the Crusaders and the missionaries told themselves. :P
In the middle of moving to Washington. 8D

"If God does not exist, then chocolate causing cancer is only true for the society that has evidence for that." --GodSands
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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6/18/2010 2:59:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/18/2010 2:58:01 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I'm here to learn and have fun doing it.

Sometimes I wonder why I even bother sticking around here...
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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6/18/2010 3:15:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
It's foolish to say a theist will fall into depression if he was to become an atheist.

-
I'm not atheist because I have faith in others. An irrational faith, but a faith that feels right.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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6/18/2010 3:37:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 6/18/2010 7:37:06 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
I don't mean the greater point of existence, but rather what is the point of being on this board?

If I search for religious truth each believer will give me vague, contradictory and entirely sujective proof. (Though my debate with Mirza has been productive, that is a rare gem in a cow pat moment).

If I knock down religions, then what do I achieve? I am not going to change the person's mind and even if I do that does nothing to improve their life. If Datchmoto became an atheist, or rather admitted his atheism he would sink into an intense depression. Other atheists will distance themselves from me as I will just look like another obnoxious Dawkins wannabe.

Why am I here?


Yay for destroying religion, it can only be done in Jesus Christ. Duty kills. For it is not that I now have to obey God like a religious man, but I want to, and there for here on it is not a duty but a want.
badger
Posts: 11,793
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6/18/2010 7:08:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
i don't see the point. i hate this board. when it comes to sh1t like this people have a free pass to believe anything they want and they generally do. how about this: from now on whenever you feel like coming to this board and bashing religion just go find a bible to burn instead. it'd probably be more productive.
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InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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6/18/2010 7:13:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/18/2010 7:08:32 PM, badger wrote:
i don't see the point. i hate this board. when it comes to sh1t like this people have a free pass to believe anything they want and they generally do. how about this: from now on whenever you feel like coming to this board and bashing religion just go find a bible to burn instead. it'd probably be more productive.

I hate it too. I don't even fit in. I know people are going to see this and be like "fitting in isn't the point of a debate forum, blah, blah, blah." However, what it really comes down to is the fact I can't even participate in most of the discussions as I don't even know anything about the topic being discussed. Then there's the people who bring up philosophical arguments in everything, another thing I don't understand. Tbh, really the only thing keeping me here is the fact that I have had met some pretty amazing people on this site.
vivalayeo
Posts: 142
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6/18/2010 7:16:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I am here to learn, hear different side's on an argument, hone my debating skill's and have a bit of fun that I can focus on. Although I do try to avoid the religious debate's because either : I've heard the debate mentioned before ; The person probably isn't going to listen (you can't reason someone out of something they were never reasoned into) ; the fact that relgious debate's tend to be circular, and too focused on semantics; and finally because I really hate people who debate by copy and pasting out of God is not Great and the God Delusion. Fair enough I liked the book's, but I was an atheist before I started reading them, and anyone who converts instantaneosly and quotes it's constantly, is just the equivelent of a bible-basher lol
badger
Posts: 11,793
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6/18/2010 7:16:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/18/2010 7:13:46 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 6/18/2010 7:08:32 PM, badger wrote:
i don't see the point. i hate this board. when it comes to sh1t like this people have a free pass to believe anything they want and they generally do. how about this: from now on whenever you feel like coming to this board and bashing religion just go find a bible to burn instead. it'd probably be more productive.

I hate it too. I don't even fit in. I know people are going to see this and be like "fitting in isn't the point of a debate forum, blah, blah, blah." However, what it really comes down to is the fact I can't even participate in most of the discussions as I don't even know anything about the topic being discussed. Then there's the people who bring up philosophical arguments in everything, another thing I don't understand. Tbh, really the only thing keeping me here is the fact that I have had met some pretty amazing people on this site.

i'm just on about religion.
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InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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6/18/2010 7:18:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/18/2010 7:16:51 PM, badger wrote:
At 6/18/2010 7:13:46 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 6/18/2010 7:08:32 PM, badger wrote:
i don't see the point. i hate this board. when it comes to sh1t like this people have a free pass to believe anything they want and they generally do. how about this: from now on whenever you feel like coming to this board and bashing religion just go find a bible to burn instead. it'd probably be more productive.

I hate it too. I don't even fit in. I know people are going to see this and be like "fitting in isn't the point of a debate forum, blah, blah, blah." However, what it really comes down to is the fact I can't even participate in most of the discussions as I don't even know anything about the topic being discussed. Then there's the people who bring up philosophical arguments in everything, another thing I don't understand. Tbh, really the only thing keeping me here is the fact that I have had met some pretty amazing people on this site.

i'm just on about religion.

I'm here...well...I don't even know. lol.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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6/18/2010 7:55:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/18/2010 7:37:06 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
I don't mean the greater point of existence, but rather what is the point of being on this board?

If I search for religious truth each believer will give me vague, contradictory and entirely sujective proof. (Though my debate with Mirza has been productive, that is a rare gem in a cow pat moment).

If I knock down religions, then what do I achieve? I am not going to change the person's mind and even if I do that does nothing to improve their life. If Datchmoto became an atheist, or rather admitted his atheism he would sink into an intense depression. Other atheists will distance themselves from me as I will just look like another obnoxious Dawkins wannabe.

Why am I here?

Since the question was 'why are you here', I'm going to guess to share in the mutual joy that is debate. Debate can easily be immature and nonsensical, but hopefully on a site like this, more often than not, you find debates with actual intellectual intercourse. Also, the sense of achievement once your point was understood and/or well received. At least, I hope that's why. :P

Personally, I'm here because I love debate and the people that I tend to surround myself with are either, a) not interested in debate, b) have no idea what I'm talking about or c) just don't give a f***. I love them regardless, but it's definitely nice to have a place I can go to and share my opinions with. I'm still in high school so debates about religion or politics (my favorites! :D) NEVER happen. And if they magically occur, they end up with someone in the hospital. Fun... Go Debate.org! There might be some idiots or trolls on it, but overall I feel like my perspective has been widened and my opinions, although they have not changed, have definitely gotten a lot stronger!

P.S. It wouldn't be the same site without ya, CN! You're an awesome debater, so keep at it! XD
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,926
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6/18/2010 9:26:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/18/2010 7:13:46 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 6/18/2010 7:08:32 PM, badger wrote:
i don't see the point. i hate this board. when it comes to sh1t like this people have a free pass to believe anything they want and they generally do. how about this: from now on whenever you feel like coming to this board and bashing religion just go find a bible to burn instead. it'd probably be more productive.

I hate it too. I don't even fit in. I know people are going to see this and be like "fitting in isn't the point of a debate forum, blah, blah, blah." However, what it really comes down to is the fact I can't even participate in most of the discussions as I don't even know anything about the topic being discussed. Then there's the people who bring up philosophical arguments in everything, another thing I don't understand. Tbh, really the only thing keeping me here is the fact that I have had met some pretty amazing people on this site.

I don't understand why this isn't impetus for you to learn then?
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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6/18/2010 9:31:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/18/2010 8:37:59 AM, TheSkeptic wrote:
Then what's the point of philosophy? Hell, what's the point of intellectual discourse?

The thing is that tools like logic and reason are generally thrown out the window when debating religion. Evidence advances philosophy; religion by its own admission typically relies generally on faith.
President of DDO
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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6/18/2010 10:47:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/18/2010 9:31:28 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 6/18/2010 8:37:59 AM, TheSkeptic wrote:
Then what's the point of philosophy? Hell, what's the point of intellectual discourse?

The thing is that tools like logic and reason are generally thrown out the window when debating religion.

Um, not really. Lane Craig? Plantinga? Aquinas? Averroes?

Evidence advances philosophy

Philosophy is NOT evidence based. Science is. Philosophy is based on contemplation and observation. However, future evidence may confirm a particular philosophy, but it is by no means based on evidence. This somewhat validates religion, at least in the field of philosophy, but not science.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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6/18/2010 11:31:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/18/2010 10:47:42 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Um, not really. Lane Craig? Plantinga? Aquinas? Averroes?
The problem with all your examples, is that all the people youve mentioned use or have used faulty logic that crumbled when analyzed. None of their arguments hold up both by reason or by logic. So yes, even when someone tries to use their arguments to prove that God exists, it still a failure and logic is STILL thrown out the window. If Logic were not thrown out the window, the person using the argument would come to his/her senses and say "Oh wait! That argument is utterly and completely invalid because it lacks any validity!"

So yes, logic is still thrown out the window with christians and other religious people.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,926
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6/18/2010 11:37:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/18/2010 11:31:41 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 6/18/2010 10:47:42 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Um, not really. Lane Craig? Plantinga? Aquinas? Averroes?
The problem with all your examples, is that all the people youve mentioned use or have used faulty logic that crumbled when analyzed. None of their arguments hold up both by reason or by logic. So yes, even when someone tries to use their arguments to prove that God exists, it still a failure and logic is STILL thrown out the window. If Logic were not thrown out the window, the person using the argument would come to his/her senses and say "Oh wait! That argument is utterly and completely invalid because it lacks any validity!"

So yes, logic is still thrown out the window with christians and other religious people.

You are aware that one could be perfectly reasonable and logical and still come to a wrong conclusion because of a false assumption/pre-supposition/axiom, right?

And please do tell me where and how their arguments go wrong. I'd love to hear it.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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6/18/2010 11:43:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/18/2010 11:37:05 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
You are aware that one could be perfectly reasonable and logical and still come to a wrong conclusion because of a false assumption/pre-supposition/axiom, right?

Although id say that this would depend on what assumption must be made beforehand in order for the argument to be reasonable and logical and still end with a conclusion that is favorable to the person who made the argument in the first place, sure, you can reach a different conclusion based on different starting points. But this isnt the case with regards to all the philosophical apologetic arguments that the people who were listed, have made.

And please do tell me where and how their arguments go wrong. I'd love to hear it.

Id rather not list every single argument that every philosopher has ever made regarding religion. If you could point one specific argument out, id be happy to criticize for you.
badger
Posts: 11,793
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6/19/2010 12:02:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/18/2010 9:31:28 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 6/18/2010 8:37:59 AM, TheSkeptic wrote:
Then what's the point of philosophy? Hell, what's the point of intellectual discourse?

The thing is that tools like logic and reason are generally thrown out the window when debating religion. Evidence advances philosophy; religion by its own admission typically relies generally on faith.

nicely put.
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innomen
Posts: 10,052
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6/21/2010 8:47:41 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/18/2010 9:31:28 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 6/18/2010 8:37:59 AM, TheSkeptic wrote:
Then what's the point of philosophy? Hell, what's the point of intellectual discourse?

The thing is that tools like logic and reason are generally thrown out the window when debating religion. Evidence advances philosophy; religion by its own admission typically relies generally on faith.

I've been thinking about this a lot. It has great merit but have been wondering...what does faith rely on? Not all inherit faith from their parents, and those who do, what sustains it?

Furthermore, logic and reason are great tools, but is there more than that? I mean to say, are their tools beyond logic and reasoning? Or are there areas that fall outside of logic and reasoning? That which is not logical is not...what? That which is not within reason is....what? I'm not saying at all that faith is the common denominator, not at all, but am wondering if logic and reason create a limitation in any possible way.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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6/21/2010 4:05:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
You could be hear to try anyway, truth regardless of its consequences should be sought out.
you could simply choose to argue on this board to reaffirm your own beliefs and to make sure you not an atheist for really stupid reasons like some are. you make sure your at least aware of the apologitics against it.
or maybe you could be hear to keep your wit and mind sharp. and even learn something about presentation.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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6/21/2010 4:16:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/21/2010 8:47:41 AM, innomen wrote:
At 6/18/2010 9:31:28 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 6/18/2010 8:37:59 AM, TheSkeptic wrote:
Then what's the point of philosophy? Hell, what's the point of intellectual discourse?

The thing is that tools like logic and reason are generally thrown out the window when debating religion. Evidence advances philosophy; religion by its own admission typically relies generally on faith.

I've been thinking about this a lot. It has great merit but have been wondering...what does faith rely on? Not all inherit faith from their parents, and those who do, what sustains it?

Furthermore, logic and reason are great tools, but is there more than that? I mean to say, are their tools beyond logic and reasoning? Or are there areas that fall outside of logic and reasoning? That which is not logical is not...what? That which is not within reason is....what? I'm not saying at all that faith is the common denominator, not at all, but am wondering if logic and reason create a limitation in any possible way.

You raise an interesting point, innomen. I think there is something beyond reason and logic, though it's not faith.

One must have to think, what is behind reason and logic? What controls it?
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat